General Debate 11 June 2009

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Glutaemus Maximus

I am thrilled that Labour think they will romp home in Mt Albert.

Just wait and see. Goff’s leadership will unfortunately come under pressure.
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June 11, 2009 9:49am
wreck1080

Goff will never be PM.

He’s a clown.

Helen ruined labour, by taking total control and not allowing others to develop.
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June 11, 2009 10:24am
MGduP

Melanie Phillips on the disturbing, yet fascinating, rise of the BNP.

“The philosophical antecedents of the BNP lie not on the right but on the left … No, the rot in our culture that has let in the BNP goes far, far deeper than that. It is because it has turned attachment to national identity itself into a crime. Anyone who objects to multi-culturalism is called a bigot; anyone who wants to curb immigration is called a racist; anyone who objects to the Islamisation of Britain is called an Islamophobe; anyone who wants to leave the EU and regain the power of national self-government is called a xenophobe; anyone, in short, who wants to retain Britain’s national identity rooted in the shared particulars of religion, law, history, traditions and culture and its powers as a self-governing nation finds themselves ostracised as a pariah.”

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3680091/the-real-reason-for-this.thtml
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June 11, 2009 10:26am
Murray

Its very simple MGduP, extremism breeds extemism. There was a shift to the left with disastrous consequences. The left refused to address the valid concerns and sought to dictate to a majority. The impression grew that this could not be resolved by small corrections because there was no real difference between the suposed left and right parties because PC language had watered conservatives down to the point of being nothing more than pale pink.

A strong desire for a shift to right means you have the option of the only people who speak directly to those issues of concern without trying to water them down. Thats the BNP.
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June 11, 2009 10:38am
MyNameIsJack

Tony Blair finally gets it.

“If you look round the different parts of the world and you look at conflicts, I would say a very large percentage of them have a religious dimension or a faith dimension to them,” said Mr Blair at the launch in London.

Unfortunately, he fails to get the solution. Instead of rejecting faith and accepting reason, he prescribes more faith, less reason.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/8091098.stm
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June 11, 2009 10:46am
Murray

Fuck off, you’re the worst kind racist around you’re a godless prick.
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June 11, 2009 10:50am
Brian Smaller

Murray – I am godless as well but do not subscribe to many of MNIJ’s other beliefs. I am a right wing atheist – we do exist you know. On Jack”s topic – What cowardly Blair didn’t come out and say in straight talk was that pretty much every conflict in the world at present has ONE releigious dimension and/or faith dimension to it – and that is one with a big crescent symbol affixed to it.
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June 11, 2009 10:59am
Nookin

Interesting

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2491659/Bain-loses-bid-to-keep-111-tape-secret
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June 11, 2009 11:12am
WraithX

Nookin: that is interesting indeed. Maybe it is not the jury we should be whining about – but the judges who suppressed evidence that would almost certainly have reconvicted him.
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June 11, 2009 11:16am
Angus

MNIJ / Borker / Fugley definitely operates at the nuttier end of the atheistic scale. He’s not really an atheist in the pure sense of the word, more of a left-wing, politically motivated Christianity hater. In fact, those forbearing Christians at TBR.cc & NZ Conservative used to pray for him to heal [with God’s help, apparently]
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June 11, 2009 11:19am
philu

“..pretty much every conflict in the world at present has ONE releigious dimension and/or faith dimension to it – and that is one with a big crescent symbol affixed to it..”

brian-the-smaller..just when did the americans adopt that symbol..?

..and..um..!..isn’t it 50 = wars the americans have instigated….?

..(that’s since ww 2..)..

..shame the facts don’t synch with yr (obvious) prejudices…

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 11, 2009 11:23am
Razork

This is just the start of the suppressed evidence.

What about the previously unmentioned statement of the pimp Cotterill that Laniet told him that Robyn had also molested david?
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June 11, 2009 11:24am
WraithX

ugh – philu has returned. Goodbye intelligent discourse.
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June 11, 2009 11:29am
Redbaiter

Here’s lying scumbag and coward Ure doing the bidding of his Chicom General handlers and smearing the US as usual.
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June 11, 2009 11:33am
Jim

I see the IRD haven’t learned anything: IRD names tax-dodge targets.

“Collection of tax from businesses struggling to keep up with their commitments will be a priority.”

Great. So while other countries are looking for ways to make it easier for struggling taxpayers; NZ IRD has decided it is hunting time. Like shooting fish in a barrel I guess.

“Martin Scott, group manager assurance for the IRD, said research and experience showed that in difficult economic times there was more fraud and tax evasion.”

No shit? I never would have guessed. Hope they didn’t pay too much for that research.
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June 11, 2009 11:33am
Patrick Starr

“The Supreme Court has lifted a suppression on part of the 111 emergency call David Bain made after five members of his family were killed. The suppressed words are alleged to be: “I shot the prick”.”

obvious question – why the fuck was this suppressed?
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June 11, 2009 11:34am
Redbaiter

“Great. So while other countries are looking for ways to make it easier for struggling taxpayers; NZ IRD has decided it is hunting time. Like shooting fish in a barrel I guess.”

Put the Nazis out of business. Tell your local politician you want to pay your tax in one annual cheque, like rates.
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June 11, 2009 11:36am
philu

:..Here’s lying scumbag and coward Ure ..”

um..!..and which of us is hiding behind a pretend-name..?

..oh couragous one..?

..and i wonder..

..if i just hauled off and called someone a ‘lying scumbag and coward’..

..in this forum..

..if i wd earn demerit points..?

..(and does the time of the month matter..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 11, 2009 11:40am
backster

Whats the point of having twelve good men and true if they are only allowed to hear selective censored evidence. It would be far more just for a Judge to hear all the evidence and use his own judgement, or better still ditch the system altogether and adopt the French Inquisitive system. We don’t get the truth with what we have!
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June 11, 2009 11:46am
Inventory2

Patrick Starr said “obvious question – why the fuck was this suppressed?”

Because it would have been prejudicial to his acquittal – which was what the trial was all about.
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June 11, 2009 11:46am
wreck1080

Is there a stomach bug going around the country. I know lots who have been struck down. Wash your hands!!
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June 11, 2009 11:47am
Redbaiter

..(and does the time of the month matter..?..)

Fuck off and go and live in North Korea or Commie China.

You’re a lowlife disgrace to the thousands of good men who died protecting your right to spill your hate and lies.
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June 11, 2009 11:47am
Murray

Brian jack equates atheism with not being racist, I demonstated this to be entirely untrue.

How does your response relate to that? I made no sweeping claim like jack did that all athists are racists, just him. Stupidty, racism and a host of toher character flaws are not particular to any belief system or political afiliation.
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June 11, 2009 11:49am
Manolo

I concur with RB: Whoar you’re scum of the earth.

Go back to the kitchen and baking duties, you loser.
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June 11, 2009 11:50am
Don the Kiwi

The tape sound quality apparently was poor, and the words unclear, so it was ruled as inadmissable. It took a fair bit of re-mastering the tape to get the words apparently.

Who knows? The trials over now, and it is my understanding that he cannot be re-tried.
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June 11, 2009 11:56am
racer1

It is kind of funny seeing how both sides try and disown groups like the the BNP or here in NZ the National Front.

“MGduP”‘s article above => http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3680091/the-real-reason-for-this.thtml is kind of funny as well, finally an acknowledgment that they are a right wing group, then a desperate pathetic attempt to blame it on the left. You guys aught to STFU and think about where all your election time scare mongering, dog whistling, and lap blog line running will get you.
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June 11, 2009 11:57am
Brian Smaller

ugh – philu has returned. Goodbye intelligent discourse.

but hello to nine thousand full stops, commas, question marks, apostrophes and other various punctuation marks every post. Farrar is a sucker for punishment letting these guys back every time. They are not called recidivist offenders for nothing. Mind you, I think he does it to get his blog stats up. Philu and co can be relied upon for several hundred thousand hits a year after all.
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June 11, 2009 11:57am
Patrick Starr

Inventory2 – its one of the very things I detest about our judicial process – the evidence is vetted.
the jury was already required to evaluate the speculation, rumour and innuendo then why on earth was this superior evidence suppressed.

If your going to have juries all evidence should go in front of a them
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June 11, 2009 11:57am
Redbaiter

Carrie Prejean loses Miss California Crown for failing to endorse homosexual marriage.

Another scalp to the tolerant Progressives.

She has paid the price for failing to succumb to the speech and thought commands of the peudo liberals.
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June 11, 2009 11:58am
racer1

“# Patrick Starr (2528) Vote: Add rating 7 Subtract rating 0 Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am

“The Supreme Court has lifted a suppression on part of the 111 emergency call David Bain made after five members of his family were killed. The suppressed words are alleged to be: “I shot the prick”.”

obvious question – why the fuck was this suppressed?”

Because the useless cops found it far more important to get someone on the stand than to find out what actually happened. they centered their investigation around proving that David killed all 5 of them.

Maybe if they hadn’t been so useless they could have ran along the lines of “david killed robin, but we are unsure who killed the rest”, but instead they chose to try put the whole 5 on him, why, we shall never know, he’s not even brown.
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June 11, 2009 12:01pm
Ratbiter

Re Carrie Prejean – please supply a valid reason why homosexuals should not get married.

With reference to the citizen’s right to freedom from state interference.
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June 11, 2009 12:01pm
Pat

Bullshit of The Year Award goes to:

“An exhalation modified by random lip and tongue movement.”

And so we have NZ greatest miscarriage of justice. NZers need to stand up and shout NO COMPENSATION!
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June 11, 2009 12:02pm
Rakaia George

@Murray. Your first post did kind of read that atheists are the worst kind of racists…but you are right in your 11.49, it isn’t faith that needs to be rejected for reason, but the desire to force your own beliefs on others, and to subvert individual freedom to the will of the collective that needs to be rejected…(yes, I’m a right wing atheist too)
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June 11, 2009 12:03pm
Patrick Starr

racer1 – the point is about why any evidence is surpressed at all, not about the cops at all
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June 11, 2009 12:04pm
Brian Smaller

You guys aught to STFU and think about where all your election time scare mongering, dog whistling, and lap blog line running will get you.

I guess you are talking from experience here because all your lot’s election time scare mongering, dog whistling, and lap blog line running didn’t get you very far did it? Then again – no-one reads your lot’s blogs. We already have to put up with you here.
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June 11, 2009 12:04pm
racer1

No redbaiter, its because she can’t keep her clothes on.

And its a private company running the thing, they are more than welcome to fire her for what ever they like.
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June 11, 2009 12:06pm
Redbaiter

“Re Carrie Prejean – please supply a valid reason why homosexuals should not get married.”

Its not about that you thick as a brick loser. Its about the freedom to express an opinion, and the determination of would be tyrants like you to suppress those opinions. Homosexual marriage is only the tip of the iceberg. You have used political correctness as a device to stifle argument on so many other ideas that challenge your progressive religion.

Jack booted anti- free speech politically motivated thugs.
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June 11, 2009 12:07pm
Inventory2

Pat and Patrick – I somehow wonder now whether there will be an application for compensation for Bain. Given that the standard of proof is different to that required by a jury, and today’s revelation, he should sit tight and reflect on his good fortune.
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June 11, 2009 12:10pm
Brian Smaller

Carrie Prejean only said what Obama has said – that she believes, like he does, that mariage is between a man and a woman. Why are you lefties not attacking Obama?

For the record – If gays want to experience marriage breakups, asset splitting disputes and fights over custody of the dog, I am all for it.
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June 11, 2009 12:12pm
jarbury

I did always suspect that Robin shot the rest of his family, David came home, saw what had happened then shot Robin.
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June 11, 2009 12:16pm
Ratbiter

Miss California is all about generating a marketable image. And it is ostensibly a popularity contest; so make unpopular comments that detract from the said marketable image, and you are down the road. This is business, not the vast left-wing PC conspiracy.

“Its about the freedom to express an opinion, and the determination of would be tyrants like you to suppress those opinions.”
“Jack booted anti- free speech politically motivated thugs.”

Like, whatEVER…
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June 11, 2009 12:18pm
Murray

Rakaia George, theres difference between being an atheist and godless prick. See if you can spot what it is.
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June 11, 2009 12:18pm
racer1

“# Patrick Starr (2530) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

racer1 – the point is about why any evidence is surpressed at all, not about the cops at all
”

Because it is not relevant to the case put forward by the crown that david killed all 5 of them, and serves only to vilify him in the eyes of the jury, some thing which you’d quite like so I can see why you’d have no concern .
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June 11, 2009 12:23pm
Ratbiter

“Its not about that you thick as a brick loser.”

It is a source of continual amazement to me that Masturbaiter is not banned for life for all the ad hominems. No other poster has ever come close to the stream of ad hominems that Masturbaiter spews out without getting banned.
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June 11, 2009 12:24pm
racer1

“# Redbaiter (6491) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 1 Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

“Re Carrie Prejean – please supply a valid reason why homosexuals should not get married.”

Its not about that you thick as a brick loser. Its about the freedom to express an opinion, and the determination of would be tyrants like you to suppress those opinions. Homosexual marriage is only the tip of the iceberg. You have used political correctness as a device to stifle argument on so many other ideas that challenge your progressive religion.

Jack booted anti- free speech politically motivated thugs.
”

Most of us would consider the right for two people who love each other far more important than your supposed right to get what ever you want.
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June 11, 2009 12:25pm
Colonel Masters

Even if David did do it, I am sure it was just “an execution modified by random muscle and limb movement”.
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June 11, 2009 12:25pm
Redbaiter

News Item- B”The Facebook Group, F*** Off, We’re Full, has nearly 65,000 members and believes any immigrants coming to Australia must adapt to what it calls the ‘Aussie lifestyle.’”

Murdoch University senior psychology lecturer Dr Anne Pedersen said the Facebook members were contradicting themselves.

“Why should we make people of colour assimilate to the white Australian culture, when in fact Indigenous people were the first people here,” she said.

Dr Pedersen believed shutting down the group would be pointless but said there was a limit to freedom of speech.

“I believe in freedom in speech, but with free speech comes responsibility and this is irresponsible,” she said.

“It’s just that we’re not white anymore, walk down the streets, we’re not a white city anymore and thank god we’re not, “ she said.

———————————————————–

Check out the vile arrogant elitist hypocrisy of the academic Pederson.

..and then people question why groups like the BNP arise.

Its in reaction to the cultural elitism of scum like Pederson, with her slurs on whites, committing the same racism she says the Face Book users are guilty of..
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June 11, 2009 12:26pm
Redbaiter

“Most of us”

Who’s “us” Racer??

The general population of sub 70 IQ knuckle dragging losers that gather together like wet rats at a rubbish tip and elect you as their spokesman?

“so make unpopular comments”

Unpopular??

The US just elected a President who feels the same way.
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June 11, 2009 12:30pm
Rakaia George

Murray, yes I realise that, but it’s fair enough to get you to emphasise the “prick” bit over the “godless” eh?
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June 11, 2009 12:31pm
Murray

Not when the Doctor Gorbels of the left is being responded to RG. “Prick” is virtually a promotion. This should be obvious to all.
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June 11, 2009 12:33pm
wreck1080

Hypothetically, if David Bain now came out and said that he did it, could it go to trial? Or, would double jeopardy apply?
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June 11, 2009 12:38pm
Kelvin

So the alleged recorded comment of Bain’s were not worthy as evidence. But now he has been found not guilty its OK to release unfounded allegations? Sounds a bit like slander to me. Perhaps this is just sour gapes from the prosecution.
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June 11, 2009 12:40pm
Ratbiter

“..and then people question why groups like the BNP arise.”

Good to see it now has a spokesman among us!
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June 11, 2009 12:42pm
Inventory2

Kelvin – I suggest you read the Supreme Court’s judgment. Both the High Court (Panckhurst J) and the Court of Appeal saw sufficient merit in the Crown’s application to rule that this evidence could be put before a jury. The only reason that this did NOT get to the jury is because Margaret Wilson’s beloved Supreme Court knew better than their judicial brethren.
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June 11, 2009 12:48pm
MyNameIsJack

Redbaiter (6493) Vote: 5 1 Says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Carrie Prejean loses Miss California Crown for failing to endorse homosexual marriage.

LIE

“This was a decision based solely on contract violations, including Ms. Prejean’s unwillingness to make appearances on behalf of the Miss California USA organization,” the California pageant’s executive director, Keith Lewis, said in a statement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31210117/

Still, its what we expect from the jack booted thug of the right. Lies, damned lies, and even more lies.
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June 11, 2009 12:48pm
sonic

“its about the freedom to express an opinion”

From the man who is on record as wanting to hang people who express opinions he does not like from lampposts!

Truly one could not make it up!

“Doctor Gorbels of the left”

Is he from Glasgow?
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June 11, 2009 12:52pm
racer1

“Redbaiter (6493) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating 2 Says:
June 11th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

“Most of us”

Who’s “us” Racer?? ”

Most normal people, maybe try leaving tauranga for once and you might meet some of them
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June 11, 2009 1:14pm
Ratbiter

For your viewing pleasure, here is a bit of classic Redbaiter, from his 3rd-term-of-Labour period. Try to count as many lies, smears and ironies as you can…

January 11th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Leftists always only know one side of the argument. Rightists know both sides and have taken an objective decison as to what is right or wrong. This is one of the essential differences between the mindsets of left and right, and it is put on display time and time again on this blog by leftists who write here and persistently show their complete ignorance of the other side of any argument.
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June 11, 2009 1:16pm
AG

Inventory2
“I suggest you read the Supreme Court’s judgment. Both the High Court (Panckhurst J) and the Court of Appeal saw sufficient merit in the Crown’s application to rule that this evidence could be put before a jury. The only reason that this did NOT get to the jury is because Margaret Wilson’s beloved Supreme Court knew better than their judicial brethren.”

Well, I have read the judgment. Here’s the important part about the views of the Crown’s own witnesses:

“Professor French and Mr Harrison are both independent forensic consultants attached to the Department of Language and Linguistic Science at the University of York. They are specialists in the analysis of digital and magnetic recordings and speech and language samples. Both are highly qualified and experienced in giving evidence about the analysis of speech and audio recordings. … [N]either Mr Harrison nor Professor French was able to say that the sounds Detective Ward thought he had heard when playing the recording in July 2007 in Dunedin were words and, if so, what they were. That was so even though they had been advised of the Crown contention and so were looking for the words.”

Their report on the 111 tape then concluded: “In summary, and having given this issue extended consideration, it is our view that it would be dangerous to put before a jury an interpretation of the questioned material as ‘I shot the/that prick’ … . While it was not possible to discount the questioned sounds being ‘I shot the/that prick’, they could equally be simply an out-of-breath exhalation that happens to resemble those words, but which, in fact, is empty of linguistic content or meaning. We would consider it unsafe to place the interpretation ‘I shot the/that prick’ before a jury.”

Now – you may argue that EVERYTHING should be in front of the jury. In which case, my very, very vivid dream that the Bains were killed by mole-men from the earth’s core needs to be admitted as soon as possible. After all – it might be true!

Oh … and as for “Margaret Wilson’s beloved Supreme Court knew better”, you do remember how Bain got a retrial, right? Through the Privy Council? Which the Supreme Court replaced? Oops!!!
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June 11, 2009 1:25pm
racer1

Nothing to support any claim he has made. Has rebaiter ever produced supporting evidence?
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June 11, 2009 1:25pm
Ross Nixon

Congrats to Ratbiter, you caught a rare Redbaiter mistake!
He should have said, “Leftists nearly always only know one side of the argument….
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June 11, 2009 1:31pm
MyNameIsJack

Angus (53) 2 1 Says:

June 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
MNIJ / Borker / Fugley definitely operates at the nuttier end of the atheistic scale. He’s not really an atheist in the pure sense of the word, more of a left-wing, politically motivated Christianity hater.

Angus, I cannot speak for others, but I am neither an atheist or christianity hater.

To allow myself to be defined as an atheist is to accept a theist description. I reject that. I am not someone who does not believe in god(s), I am someone who has no concept of god(s), nor indeed, a need for god(s).

When you have worked out the word for someone who does not believe in the tooth fairy, easter bunny, santa claus, flying spaghetti monsters, etc, you will have the word that best describes me.

Nor am I a christianity hater. I have the same disdain for any and all religions and their adherents. sadly, the christians seem not to notice my remarks about Islam, preferring to ignore them and only see those they perceive as offence to themselves. Motes in their eyes, the lot of them.
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June 11, 2009 1:31pm
AG

Ross
“Congrats to Ratbiter, you caught a rare Redbaiter mistake!”

Don’t you know sarcasm is the lowest form of humour? “Rare Redbaiter mistake!”. That’s almost cruel in its mockery.
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June 11, 2009 1:32pm
MyNameIsJack

Murray (3403) 6 20 Says:

June 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Fuck off, you’re the worst kind racist around you’re a godless prick.

I think it is far better to be a godless prick than it is to be the prick of a god you worship.
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June 11, 2009 1:34pm
WraithX

“We would consider it unsafe to place the interpretation ‘I shot the/that prick’ before a jury.””

And why is that up to them? If those two linguists were so sure they could have been given a chance to say so before the jury AFTER the jury heard the recording. Then the 12 jurists can make their own decision – which is what they are there for. Instead, a decision was arbitrarily made to exclude what could be a very significant piece of evidence from the trial. That is not justice.

It seems that justice truly is blind in New Zealand – blind to the truth.
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June 11, 2009 2:12pm
Banana Llama

I never understood why people like AG, Ratbiter, MNIJ, Sonic an Co post here till i compared them to locusts, so devoid their sites are of traffic and discussion they have to seek out new blogs in order to survive, of course once they find a new site the locals treat them like the pests they are, banning or ignoring them repeatedly in a vain hope that the plague will move on.
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June 11, 2009 2:15pm
AG

Quite right, Banana Llama. This is a LOCAL site, for LOCAL people.

If you get the reference, great. If not, doesn’t matter … but you really should watch more quality TV.
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June 11, 2009 2:20pm
backster

I understand there was a total of seven linguists some of whom had differing views. The fact remains it is the Juries duty to decide the facts on the basis of the evidence they hear. If that doesn’t still apply then Juries are redundant.
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June 11, 2009 2:47pm
AG

“The fact remains it is the Juries duty to decide the facts on the basis of the evidence they hear.”

Exactly. But it is then a different question as to what evidence a jury “should” hear as a matter of law. And if you care to go to this thread http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/i_shot_the_prick.html#comments and scroll down to FE Smith’s sterling comment, you’ll see why this is a huge storm in a tiny thimble.
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June 11, 2009 2:50pm
Rex Widerstrom

Jim noted:

“Collection of tax from businesses struggling to keep up with their commitments will be a priority” …while other countries are looking for ways to make it easier for struggling taxpayers; NZ IRD has decided it is hunting time. Like shooting fish in a barrel I guess.

Unlike Bain (which, rightly or wrongly, is over and done with) or whether some brainless bimbo will or won’t strip and/or hates teh gays, the travesty Jim highlights will affect hundreds, maybe thousands, of ordinary NZ business people.

National are traditionally the party that would stand up for small business yet it is on their watch that this is being allowed to happen (albeit under the command of that quisling Dunne).

Yet most commenters, in common with the MSM and the wider public, seem happy enough to be distracted by bread and circuses. A whodunnit here, a bit of boobage there, throw in a horny old fool in the middle of a wholly manufactured sex scandal and we’ll all look the other way while hard working New Zealanders are forced to the wall by rapacious tax collectors.

Enough is enough. It’s time Key was reminded that he represents the majority, not just those inside the “beltway” who think this other nonsense matters.
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June 11, 2009 4:00pm
Inventory2

backsta said “I understand there was a total of seven linguists some of whom had differing views.”

The question has to be asked – were they cunning linguists?
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June 11, 2009 4:05pm
MyNameIsJack

So rex, you don’t see anything wrong with your competitiors getting a free ride while you pay your tax? that they can “cry poor” to avoid paying the tax due, then undercut your prices, all the while you, as a good citizen, pay your tax?
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June 11, 2009 4:07pm
Rex Widerstrom

No, MNIJ, I see something wrong in “naming and shaming” those who are genuinely struggling, and sending them to the wall through aggressive and unyielding collection processes. Businesses provide real jobs… shut enough of them down and you’ll find there’s not enough employees paying tax to actually fund all those tax collectors.

Common sense suggests the appropriate response when a business owner says “I can’t pay my tax” is:

1. Ascertain why. If they’re price-cutting then of course there’s no excuse. But they may just be having a cashflow problem because the banks have tightened up on business credit, for instance.

2. The appropriate response then is to seek to provide an alternative to keep an otherwise healthy business afloat. The Australian Federal (Labor) government, for instance, created “OzCar”, a fund contributed to by government and the banks, to ensure car dealers could continue to carry stock. They’re assessed to ensure their business is otherwise strong, then helped out. Or it may be that they simply need to defer their tax payments till an order is filled. Or some other reason which has nothing to do with the “all business owners are crooks” world view embodied in your comment.

3. If a business owner has a valid reason for not being able to pay, then the obligation can be deferred, with no penalty, till the economy improves. Sure that means less government revenue, but then there’s plenty of fat in the public service, it seems – like armies of tax collectors with nothing to do. In the event they eventually fall over, well at least they’ve been paying wages, rent, electricity, suppliers etc rather than immediately consigning them, their staff, and a few downstream jobs to the dole queue.

Of course this would involve the IRD remembering that, as a part of the public service, they are there to serve the public, their effective employers, and not to bully, penalise and punish. And it’d mean the tax collectors (many of whom have accounting or legal qualifications) seeing their role as helping taxpayers rather than simply milking them for all they’re worth.
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June 11, 2009 4:43pm
side show bob

Rex give the poor tax man a break, the poor bastards are struggling, you can only get so much blood out of a stone. I saw the guy from the IRD on the box this morning, there is a man that enjoys his work. I do hope they go after the big corporations with the same zeal they use when hunting down private citizens trying to earn a honest days crust.
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June 11, 2009 4:47pm
gd

And on a completely different topic NBR just popped into my inbox with the news that Plus SMS has lost 2 more directors to make a total of 11 plus the total management team since 2000.

So I typed the following comment

Where are the regulators? Why arent they enquiring into the governance of this entity ?Do they believe every NZ PLC is governed to the best international standards

And guess what Poor old NBR rejected my comment because “it contains abusive words”

Good grief let it be hoped that DPF never subjects me to the same high standards as the Royal NBR whose prissiness knows no bounds and who filter to reject any comment knows no limits.

What a bunch of twats NBR are
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June 11, 2009 5:01pm
Rex Widerstrom

gd notes:

I typed the following comment

Where are the regulators? Why arent they enquiring into the governance of this entity ?Do they believe every NZ PLC is governed to the best international standards

And guess what Poor old NBR rejected my comment because “it contains abusive words”

Yep gd, you’re not allowed to suggest anyone – IRD, SFO or any of the other regulators – actually get amongst it and roll up their sleeves to prevent a business collapsing. Why, your abusive comment would have led to a tremor amongst the teacups all along The Terrace.

No, their job is to wait till a business runs into trouble and then, regardless of whether the owners / directors are at fault, prosecute the begeezus out of everyone involved, thus making mountains of work for their in-house solicitors, Crown law, and a few of the big law firms who’ll pick up the job of defence.

Whilst making them look tough, it also has the effect of either a) persecuting someone who was merely trying to keep afloat in tough times and put the interests of the tax man after those of his staff and suppliers or b) fine a few crooks after they’ve collapsed their latest shell leaving staff and suppliers (and possibly shareholders) out of pocket.

Much less work that way, you see. And it can be done while reading the Dom and dunking your biscuit (no, that’s not a euphemism but it should be).
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June 11, 2009 5:25pm
philu

the last mt albert bye-election gig..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/comment-whoarmt-albert-bye-electionthe-last-meetingand-catherine-delahunty-would-like-it-known-by-all-and-sundrythat-she-was-never-a-member-of-the-allianceokand-david-shearer-just-didnt-answer-that-qu/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 11, 2009 5:33pm
Patrick Starr

yet another leftwing MSM attack on Lee

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10577877
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June 11, 2009 5:52pm
philu

star..star..

..nobody needs to attack lee..

..we just all have to stand back and wait…

..she is the gift that just keeps on giving…

..and has provided some much needed light relief during the campaign..

..and given key chose her..over the very able local candidate..

..is an indictment not only on lee..

..but also on key..his judgment/political nous..

..lee/key have done more damage to the national brand..

..than any in labour have managed..

(a laughingstock..is not a good look..eh..?..)

..and gee..!..we didn’t see much of the blogmobile..have we..?

..did you have to give some sponsorship money back..?..dpf..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 11, 2009 5:57pm
Rex Widerstrom

The Herald is left wing now? This is the same paper that campaigned against the EFA, helped expose Winston, etc etc?

Perhaps they’re just calling it as they see it. Asked how she’d like to get by on the minimum wage of $12.50 an hour ($26,000 a year), Ms Lee (who earns $131,000 a year plus allowances) “joked” that she was on about $2 an hour, probably in reference to the long hours MPs (supposedly) work.

You’re in a Labour-held electorate where you have to assume a fair number of voters are either working class or (more likely), left-leaning liberals with a concern for the lower paid. And your response to a question about poverty is joke which makes you look (probably accurately) as though you not only have no idea what it’s like to live on $26,000, but that you don’t give a damn. And remember, you know after your litany of prior gaffes that your political enemies will be ready to jump all over you.

Sorry, almost any other National candidate would have responded with a line on the need to raise everyone’s income, not some at the expense of others etc (which she later did, only after the tar and feathers appeared).

Even Richard Worth wouldn’t have tried for a sympathy smirk with a line on how hard a politician has to work for their $131,000 salary, $14,860 in expenses and $24,000 in accommodation benefits and free travel. She’s an idiot.
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June 11, 2009 6:25pm
billyborker

Yes, she is an idiot.

$2 an hour, working 24 hours a day 7 days a week for a year is $17,250.00

Who said asians were good at maths?

In fact, who said they were good at anything?

Not only should the electors of Mt Albert throw here out on her ear, so should the nation! Send this trollop anywhere, please.
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June 11, 2009 6:52pm
Patrick Starr

“The Herald is left wing now? ”

Look a little deeper than the link Rex, its NZPA
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June 11, 2009 7:14pm
starboard

Who said asians were good at maths?

In fact, who said they were good at anything?

..Borker , its obvious you that havent been told today …
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June 11, 2009 7:50pm
Patrick Starr

“In fact, who said they were good at anything?”

that wanker shows his complete ignorance again
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June 11, 2009 8:51pm
wikiriwhis business

anyone been to field days.

so far I’ve shook hands with John Key, David Carter, Paul Holmes, CEO of ZEspri, Italian ambassador, Irish ambassador

and more tomorrow I’m sure.

Media pass does magic 🙂
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June 11, 2009 10:47pm
bearhunter

WB: Ireland doesn’t have an ambassador here. I think you’ve been conned….
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June 12, 2009 8:33am

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