General Debate 8 May 2009

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Redbaiter

Why were three cops out hassling an apparently small time relatively peaceful marijuana grower when the country is rife with violent P-dealing Maori gangs? Who is responsible for choosing targets and allocating resources?

The Police were reportedly watching this guy. If he was the “violent Rambo type” as the media claim, the Police must have known this, so why did they send three unarmed officers to do the “bust”.

Who is responsible for this oversight?

Howard Broad that’s who, and he should be fired.
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May 8, 2009 8:25am
dad4justice

Howard Broad is a total let down for front line police officers. Ask any street cop and they will tell you the desk fuckwits at police HQ are clueless pc gits.
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May 8, 2009 8:30am
aardvark

Ahh.. Redbaiter…

So you’re saying that the fact police have uncovered an unlicensed fiream in the hands of a criminal who’s prepared to use it against the public is not a good thing?

I’d hardly call the guy “a peaceful marijuana grower” when he’s just shot four people, killing one of them.
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May 8, 2009 8:37am
Monty

And Howard Broad the coward is using the cover of this major and tragic story to release part of the information contained in the Don Brash stolen email saga – While I have a lot of time and respect for the police – Howard Broad is a chump and a disgrace.
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May 8, 2009 8:39am
NOt1tocommentoften

Red – are you suggesting that the police never execute warrants where there is reason to suspect marajuana is being held/ dealt from a property? Then this is an issue for Parliament – currently marijuana is a class c drug and therefore illegal to supply, administer, possess. If you don’t want the police to go after these people then this will require decriminalising weed. If this is your position then fine, but don’t blame someone in the police for doing their job here.
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May 8, 2009 8:39am
Ross Nixon

Why don’t they set fire to the house? That would flush the guy out. Even if the house was lost, that would be cheaper than the extra police time, travel, helicopters etc that has been incurred.
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May 8, 2009 8:43am
Redbaiter

“Why don’t they set fire to the house?”

There’s actually a lot they could do. They won’t do it because the police are paralyzed and made dysfunctional by the politicization of the upper hierarchy.

The Police on the front line know this.

This dysfunctionalism is illustrated by all of the unnecessary shut downs in Napier. They want to make it look as if they’re doing something when they’re in reality not doing anything.
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May 8, 2009 8:50am
dad4justice

“Why don’t they set fire to the house? ”

Howard is worried about air pollution!! What a fucking disgrace that they have not retrieved the body of the dead cop. Get some balls Broad you soft cock!
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May 8, 2009 8:51am
Redbaiter

What I want to know is who is the “civilian” that has been shot and why is his identity being kept secret? Something seems somehow awry here.
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May 8, 2009 8:59am
Inventory2

dad4j – in defence of the front-line cops, they HAVE tried to get to Len Snee’s body, and they’ve been fired on. Enough police have died in the last 24 hours. If they can get a shield from the LAV’s that would be great.

However I don’t disagree with you about Broad.
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May 8, 2009 9:03am
Lee C

This is the sad reality of the world tht sometimes the innocent die as a result of police actions, and sometimes the police die as a result of criminal behaviour. The interesting thing is the lack of moral outrage that accompanies the death of a policeman. When an innocent is plucked away, there are certain people who are astonished, angry and vocal. When a policeman dies those same people are curiously silent. But that’s how criminals like it.
I find it morally outrageous that breadwinners are killed in the course of their work, while the criminal who did it stands to get a cosy cell and counselling for life. By the same token, I am outraged when a civilian is killed and the subsequent enquiry ‘exonerates’ the malfactor.
But most of all I am morally outraged that even as the situation unfolds in Napier, the knives are out for the ‘police’.
Which is of course how criminals like it.

Lee = MWT
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May 8, 2009 9:03am
NOt1tocommentoften

What a fucking disgrace that they have not retrieved the body of the dead cop. Get some balls Broad you soft cock!

D4J – you have said some utterly stupid things on this site but this has to be the winner. Why risk another life here? I understand that it is absolutely horrible that an officer is lying dead on the hill. But it would be in no ones interests to go up there and attempt to retrieve the body. Unless you’re willing to go in D4J?
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May 8, 2009 9:03am
Rakaia George

I heard Broad on the radio this morning say that the civ was “a very brave man and more would be heard abou that in the coming days no doubt”.
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May 8, 2009 9:04am
dad4justice

“Unless you’re willing to go in D4J?”

Yes I would try you cowardly backstabbing queer creep. The fact that a dead police officer remains a cold body in public 24 hours after being shot highlights how ineffective and pathetic our police force is. Name one other country that this would happen in? Criminals have the upper hand? That’s Howards Way.

[DPF: And queer creep is 20 demerits]
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May 8, 2009 9:07am
Chthoniid

Aah well, Friday morning deserves a new photo

Let’s try something a bit calming
http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v3/p53574144-5.jpg
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May 8, 2009 9:07am
trout

Apparently the ‘civilian’ was at the house (making a purchase?) and tried to wrest the firearm from the shooter before the firing started.
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May 8, 2009 9:09am
Redbaiter

“D4J – you have said some utterly stupid things”

On a ratio of stupid to sensible, he’s streets ahead of you. If all you can do is criticise other people’s comments you’re wasting time and broadband. This thread is (so far) not about D4J.

He’s right. That the body still lies there is a measure of just how totally ineffective the Police are since Labour’s PC lefties have gained control of it.
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May 8, 2009 9:09am
AG

reddy,

“That the body still lies there is a measure of just how totally ineffective the Police are since Labour’s PC lefties have gained control of it.”

You could always volunteer to go get it. In fact, I positively encourage you to do so. Please.
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May 8, 2009 9:12am
NOt1tocommentoften

Queer? Back stabbing? Do you mean me? How mature D4J.

I’m assumming that you have a breadth of knowledge of comparative police practices in other jurisdictions. I’m unaware myself of what would happen in other countries. I’m also unaware of police negotiation tactics – whether or not they are trying to tire this guy out or what. Either way though, I know they have more understanding in this area than you do D4J (unless you’ve done police negotiation work before) and so I am happy to defer to them in this instance.
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May 8, 2009 9:12am
Murray

Damn if only the police had some of these many many top level experts from kiwiblog advising them instead of relying on their training and experience as well the assistance of the military in these situations.

The fools!

Not having watched enough American cop shows to be an expert myself I’ll leave it to the guys on the ground.
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May 8, 2009 9:14am
Fisiani

For goodness sake. The testosterone is turning heads into turnips. Patience can be a virtue. There is no need to rush in. No ones life is currently in imminent danger. The gunman cannot escape. He will be unable to stay awake for ever. No one else needs to die. This is not a TV drama that ends in 30 minutes. If it takes 4 days to resolve then so what. There does not have to be a finale in time for the six o clock news.
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May 8, 2009 9:20am
Redbaiter

“I am morally outraged that even as the situation unfolds in Napier, the knives are out for the ‘police’.”

The knives are not out for the Police.

The Police management needs to be held accountable for the fact that one front line Policeman has been killed and two others seriously injured in circumstances that seem strange to say the least.

Here’s why Lee.

Th is guy was reportedly a Rambo type who has guns, machine guns and possibly explosives. The Police were reportedly watching him.

The Police went there to do the bust without any arms and with only three of them?? There was an unarmed civilian present?

Where’s the safety management? Where’s the strategic planning?

Broad and his cronies need to feel the heat of accountability, and when its eventually applied, watch them squirm like the PC lefty weasels they are to avoid that heat.

That said, I still say something doesn’t sound right here.
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May 8, 2009 9:20am
Banana Llama

Hawkes bay has always been in a semi anarchy, where i grew up the community police station was firebombed no less than three times in a row and a police man was shot dead on the street i lived in “certain” people tend to have very little respect for the law down there.
I doubt anything will change, the situation will just continue to deteriorate further despite noises coming from the politicians and police chiefs.
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May 8, 2009 9:22am
Murray

Hey red Howard Broad is a penis but he didn’t shoot Len Snee. Dial back the hysteria will you.

The bad man is in the house with guns and shit and hes the one that needs to be taken out first.
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May 8, 2009 9:30am
aardvark

There is only *one* solution to this standoff:

BRUCE WILLIS
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May 8, 2009 9:33am
Redbaiter

“Hey red Howard Broad is a penis but he didn’t shoot Len Snee.”

Of course he didn’t but its his mismanagement that led to the situation. There’s no way that if this guy was known to the cops in the way the media describe that they should have gone there unarmed.

Who gets fined if a carpenter falls off some scaffolding on a building site? I’ll tell you- The building company’s directors.

Broad and his cronies need to be held accountable for an avoidable tragedy that could cost us three policemen’s lives.
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May 8, 2009 9:36am
RKBee

.. like the media we are sensationalising and blaming everything without knowing the full facts.. lets just let the police and those involved do their job.. It would be good though if they could safely retrieve the body of the officer before the weather deteriorates. so the media don’t jump on that bandwagon.. and drum up public emotions against the police.. DEAD POLICEMAN LEFT IN THE RAIN. Police have families to.
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May 8, 2009 9:37am
shady

Chthoniid – thank you for your lovely photos each week, they really add a little piece of pleasure to my day – and today in particular with all the vitriol flying over the terrible situation in Napier. Thankyou.
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May 8, 2009 9:40am
Inventory2

Well said RKBee
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May 8, 2009 9:42am
fredinthegrass

Chthoniid, thanks for your photo of sanity. Is it the weather that has the commenters ‘going’ this morning?
I trust you are also enjoying a settling brew of the finest Aribica – mine is Cruise Control by Gravity -mmmmm
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May 8, 2009 9:42am
Redbaiter

“in particular with all the vitriol flying over the terrible situation in Napier”

What have you got against vitriol? There should be a lot damn more of it as you sheep like excuses for human beings vote this country into soft socialist tyranny, and an ineffective and mismanaged Police Force is only the tip of the iceberg.

Nice photo tho Clint- thank you.
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May 8, 2009 9:43am
Lee C

Ratty – I was thinking of the allegations by two very respected friends that the recent release of info about Brash’s emails was a smoke-screen by the police to draw media attention away from this one as is opined elsewhere. It’s a long bow but was not drawn here, so. I hear ya. Anyway to those who dig pics well both these photos are recycled but feel free to lighten your day with these – http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/
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May 8, 2009 9:46am
Lee C

Clint – 1sec at f22? I’ll put some of my pics on MWT soon it appears we have something in common, apart from truth and justice of course. . .
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May 8, 2009 9:53am
Redbaiter

“Yes I would try you cowardly backstabbing queer creep.”

I reckon you would too Dad.

Old school. You’ve got more guts and common sense than any of the simpering pain in the arse pseudo liberals having a go at you on this thread.

Good on you laddie. Stick to your guns. Non Bastardus Carborundum
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May 8, 2009 9:54am
dad4justice

Thank you red I just wish “old school” men with integrity made decisions for our front line cops.
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May 8, 2009 9:58am
wreck1080

British electricity companies are lowering prices due to the recession.

Helll would freeze over before our thieving uncompetitive power companies reduce prices.
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May 8, 2009 10:35am
Chthoniid

Thanks shady, fredinthegrass and redbaiter- the shot is Tawhai Falls in the Tongariro National Park.

Lee- while it was overcast, I wanted the water to get that silky, blended look. So I’ve got a 2-stop filter to cut back the light, and closed the aperture right down (risking diffraction, but with Carl-Zeiss glass a risk worth trying). And of course, a tripod is involved. 🙂

Fwiw, I’m a hybrid shooter. I use both film (Minolta cameras) and digital (Sony alphas). But the digital makes a big difference to travel and wildlife shots. I like film more for landscapes and portraits.

In a slightly different tangent, I’m not err a ‘Clint’. My mum calls me ‘Brendan’ 😉
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May 8, 2009 11:49am
racer

“Monty

And Howard Broad the coward is using the cover of this major and tragic story to release part of the information contained in the Don Brash stolen email saga”

Made today’s paper but released yesterday before all this stuff in Napier happened, I suggest your just another conspiracy theorist.

“Redbaiter
There’s actually a lot they could do. They won’t do it because the police are paralyzed and made dysfunctional by the politicization of the upper hierarchy.”

Evidence please. (preempting your rant in reply: no, that wasn’t evidence, I didn’t think you’d have any anyway)

“Redbaiter
Where’s the safety management? Where’s the strategic planning?”

Useless back room bureaucratic redtape paper work, its bullshit, pc, leftist and a waste of time, there should be no “strategic planning” ever, and what a Stalinist phrase too.
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May 8, 2009 12:03pm
Ratbiter

In yesterday’s NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/arts/music/07abroad.html

In Saint-Saens’ opera Samson & Delilah, (as in the biblical tale of the same name) the hero and his people are Hebrew and all the villains are Philistines.

Antwerp’s Flanders Opera company has staged it with Samson re-cast as a Palestinian, and with the Philistines turned into Israelis. This production is jointly directed by a Palestinian and an Israeli.

The only people who seem to have a problem with this are (surprise) the local Jewish community, who are playing the usual “How dare you! You anti-Semites!!” card. Pity…
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May 8, 2009 12:23pm
starboard

“Redbaiter
There’s actually a lot they could do. They won’t do it because the police are paralyzed and made dysfunctional by the politicization of the upper hierarchy.”

Evidence please”

You only need to look at the current Napier situation for evidence you tool racer
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May 8, 2009 12:29pm
Chthoniid

Oh, and today’s coffee was an Altura Colombian. 🙂
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May 8, 2009 12:30pm
Jack5

New topic for a minute if I may.

In this week’s Independent, the NZ business paper, Mai Chen looks at the possibility of a review of MMP.

She considers two possibilities. One is that the 5 per cent threshhold for use of party votes be reduced to 3 per cent, and the second is that all parties should be required to meet 5 per cent before they can use party votes in addition to electorate seats they have won.

I found Chen’s article most interesting. I think it is relevant that the German representation system, on which MMP is based, had no threshold for the use of party votes until after World War 2. After the occupiers returned political power to the German people, they introduced the 5 per cent threshold to try to reduce the volatility of MMP during the pre-World War 2 Weimar phase, during which the Nazis rose to power. The German experience suggests any lowering of the 5 per cent threshold would be retrograde and foolish.

However, I think stopping use of party votes under a 5 per cent threshold is an excellent idea. It would prevent distortions of House seats as at present illustrated by the Maori Party. Given its tiny proportion of the national vote this party has gained an unfair share of power in the House.
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May 8, 2009 1:30pm
rolla_fxgt

Has anyone else seen this http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009/05/worse-than-asbos.html seems like a licence for police abuse if you ask me! I thought National were anti nanny-state natzism? Looks pretty nanny-state to me.
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May 8, 2009 2:31pm
Former Plod

Racer you tosser

You only need go back to the appointment by that twisted bitch Helen Clarke, of Lynn Provost, a lateral entry appointment to the rank of Deputy Commissioner, in the New Zealand Police. This occurred I think in 1999, or early 2000.

This qualified Librarian, has ineffectively run the Police since by default since.

Labours appointment of Rob Robinson and Howard Broad to the postions of Commissioner was to allow Provost to continue on her merry way of running the Police, at labours behest, into the ground. Hence their operational decline over the past few years. It is well known among the Police that Helen Clarke has and will always hate the Police, and this was her opportunity to take charge!

How do I know this is true? I was invited to a meeting with the other Deputy Commissioner – the real cop not the librarian. On arriving in his office she barged and told him to sit in the corner and be quiet, and that she was to going sort out the reason for my visit. That Deputy Commissioner, was then the Acting Commissioner, the Commissioner being overseas. It was quite apparent then who was running the Police, and who continues to do so.

She along with her former Union Rep. HR Manager Wayne Annan, have successfully ruined what was once a proud and operationally capable Police Department.
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May 8, 2009 2:45pm
Jack5

Nice one Former Plod.

We were lucky to get rid of H1.
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May 8, 2009 3:06pm
Murray

Clark is just the begining of the purge Jack.
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May 8, 2009 3:29pm
gd

Former PlodI Having perosnally witnessed Clark yelling and ranting at the Police during the 1969 anti Vietnam marches down Queen ST I have always beleived she was anti Police. As to the appointment of Provost I was suspicious as to why a non career cop was bought in at that level.

There is no doubt that over the past decade the Police have lost the respect of the citizens and much of this related to the bahaviour at the top.

In this currnet instance its not a good look to have a slain officer lying in the open for this long. Similarly to have one man hold off an army in not a good look.

Yes I know all the talk about waiting it out. But it still looks bad and indecisive

You see it all about perception. IMHO the POlice are fuelling the criticsim against them by looking as thou they dont have an answer.

I hope and pray it ends in their favour Because it they wait and it all goes pear shaped then the calls for heads to roll willbbe overwhelming

You cant keep on stuffing up and at the same time say Trust us we know what we are doing
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May 8, 2009 4:03pm
Murray

We saw the same thing with David Lange in the army. The fat bastard wouldn’t even look at us. The concept that there existed people who believed in something more important than themselves was a real head spinner for him.
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May 8, 2009 4:14pm
racer

“starboard

You only need to look at the current Napier situation for evidence you tool racer”

“So evident I don’t even need to explain it!” yeah right, aggressive ad hominem attacks are a fantastic substitute for evidence, you should continue on this path, you will go far.
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May 8, 2009 4:33pm
shady

Redbaiter – “What have you got against vitriol? There should be a lot damn more of it as you sheep like excuses for human beings vote this country into soft socialist tyranny”

Just been catching up – noticed your comment. Sometimes you can be such an idiot! Never voted Labour in last 20 years. Was not criticising vitriol – enjoy most of it as entertaining reading. Only commenting to Clthniid that his photos are a pleasant relief ….
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May 8, 2009 4:37pm
racer

“gd
Former PlodI Having perosnally witnessed Clark yelling and ranting at the Police during the 1969 anti Vietnam marches down Queen ST I have always beleived she was anti Police. As to the appointment of Provost I was suspicious as to why a non career cop was bought in at that level.”

You were suspicious because you dis like labour, nothing more nothing less.

“There is no doubt that over the past decade the Police have lost the respect of the citizens and much of this related to the bahaviour at the top.”
No, its for 2 reasons, the amount of time police spend out giving traffic tickets to people who feel they aught to be above the law, and secondly, the MSM struggling to adapt to a new medium, and resorting to tabloid style reporting to keep numbers up.

“In this currnet instance its not a good look to have a slain officer lying in the open for this long.”
Feel free to march out there and get him yourself, his body lying out there would be pretty trivial really if an officer was shot dead trying to retrieve it.

“Similarly to have one man hold off an army in not a good look.”
Loosing more officers just in order to finish it quickly would look pretty dumb in hindsight also.

“Yes I know all the talk about waiting it out. But it still looks bad and indecisive”
Again, you’d be foolish to risk lives in order to save face.
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May 8, 2009 4:42pm
Former Plod

gd

The issue is, since Provost and Annan took over any one with any competence or ability to think laterally has left. Those that remained behind, have been passed over for promotion intentionally.

And the HR policies that these two have been responsible for have quite effectively dumbed down the Police since.

I feel sorry for those that remain behind, they are being lead, in most instances by those prepared to tow the Party line. Particularly when we know that there are others, those of the old school, who solely for political reasons have been either packed off overseas or sit quietly on the side, going through the motions.

It really scares me when I see some of those who now have the reins of power.
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May 8, 2009 4:44pm
shady

Oh- and never voted Greens, Alliance or any other leftist, socialist party – just in case you thought I was a Green. Vote Act/Act and Nat/Act over various elections, have done since Helen ousted Mike Moore.
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May 8, 2009 4:46pm
Patrick Starr

Former Plod – you were obviously a very good detective, Am I right? – just the correctly observed first 3 words of your 1st ever post gave it away

well done
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May 8, 2009 4:50pm
racer

“Former Plod

Racer you tosser”

Plod you tosser, why dont you bugger off and go bush some maoris or harass some teenagers.

All you have got is a grand conspiracy theory of which only one part needs to fail for the whole thing to be bollocks.

I don’t see the problem for putting people who haven’t spent their whole life in the force up the top, does away with institutional mindset bullshit.
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May 8, 2009 4:53pm
racer

Hey mr Starr, hows the Christan apologist going today?

Did your game of hide the sausage with the choir boys not go so well?

Or have you been busy catching up on advocating for genocide?

[DPF: 35 demerits]
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May 8, 2009 4:54pm
big bruv

DPF

Surely the comments from racer at 4.54pm would be grounds for banning him for life.

That is just not acceptable in my opinion.
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May 8, 2009 4:57pm
racer

Trying to silence my opinion again, how sad.

Maybe if patrick starr showed some manners to me I would show some to him?
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May 8, 2009 5:05pm
lofty

I hear there is a brand spanking new Morgan poll out, does anyone know the figures???
I do hope that the liarbour party is still trending down. That would spread joy around.
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May 8, 2009 5:26pm
joeAverage

deborah hill clone a poster on Newstalk zb at 5 .30 pm, what a screetching bitch is she a druggy party girl,what a fucken horrible radio voice, pushing the druggie line, dont trust a double barrel screetching bitch pushing her druggie cause,ie if this drug dealing fucker shooter was able to push weed in the world according to sceetching DHC THE VOICE the shooting would not have happened , UM how much DAK dose DEBORH HILL CLONE SMOKE.AND DO and why dose newstalkzb EMPLOY DRUGGIES who party using drugs AND WHO FUCK OFF LISTNERS WITH HER HORRIBLE VOICE

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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May 8, 2009 6:01pm
Jack5

Good night Racer. I hear your mum calling you for tea then bed.

Be bright and early for school on Monday.
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May 8, 2009 6:03pm
billyborker

I WANT MY FUCKING CYCLEWAY.

Jonkey and National – waste of space, couldn’t get a fuck in a brothel.
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May 8, 2009 6:26pm
Patrick Starr

racer – the neighbourhood window peeper, as it’s now dark I suspect you’ll be doing your rounds but nevertheless I’ve told you before I am neither a christian, nor an apologist for them. Perhaps you were busy on your telescope?

you’ve also slagged off ‘Former Plod’ for telling his personal experience. Now I don’t really want to hear your personal experiences as they’d probably involve nothing more than a bit of invasion of privacy combined with voyeurism, (something you can share with your fellow pimply faced spotty bummed school mates) but I’m sure the first hand experiences of a commenter such as Former Plod are far more valuable to the debate then are your constant uninformed trolling
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May 8, 2009 6:38pm
reid

I WANT MY FUCKING CYCLEWAY.

Who cares what you want, billy? No-one caters for the lowest common denominator – except Liarbore.
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May 8, 2009 7:32pm
Former Plod

Patrick Starr

You are observant, I was offered a Detective Inspectors position in Auckland, despite not being qualified at that time, but opted for another roll, which at the time was an inspired move. It is the subsequent chain of events, ending in the confrontation with the ‘Librarian’ that changed my whole perspective of the Police, I had been in denial until that point in time.

Again I wish those that remain all the best, but agree wholeheartedly with other posters, it is time for a change at the top, and also at a couple of levels below the rank of Commissioner. Those currently there are ‘lackeys’ and have not been appointed thrught their competence or ability, but by decree of the Librarian, who has overseen and been responsible for virtually all senior appointments over the past 8 years. Of course there is always the exception, one or two remain who I have the utmost respect for, but the others, I do tend to cringe.
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May 8, 2009 7:49pm
Patrick Starr

Former Plod – give us the low down on the Bain murders. I still cant work out why the father (if he did it) would wear gloves to conceal his identity, murder the family, then leave a note and top himself. Like how does the jury mantain their composure listening to these things?
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May 8, 2009 7:58pm
Viking2

Starr; reckon there might be a third party that has never surfaced. Always thought so.
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May 8, 2009 8:47pm
Viking2

Change of subject.
It seems Bill and Jesus(oops sorry I mean Peter Dunne), cant figure out what needs to be done to the tax system so they are going to ask a bunch of self interested others to advise them, no doubt at some not inconsiderable cost. Why doesn’t Bill just ask Sir Roger??

Working group to consider tax options
Last updated 15:30 08/05/2009

A tax working group comprising of officials, private sector and academic experts has been set up to look at medium term policy options for the taxation system.

Finance Minister Bill English and Revenue Minister Peter Dunne said today the group would assist the Government in considering the key tax policy challenges facing New Zealand.

The group, co-ordinated by Victoria University’s Centre for Accounting, will consider the medium-term direction of the tax system, including assessing policy options.

“A strategic review of the tax system is necessary – particularly in light of the challenges posed by the current economic and fiscal environment and our medium-term goal of a 30 percent top personal tax rate,” Mr English said in a statement.

“Between June and November, through a series of meetings and papers, the working group will provide tax policy discussion that can feed into advice to ministers and wider public debate.”

The group would not make specific policy recommendations, but offer advice on the fiscal framework, and the structure of personal income tax, corporate tax, GST and tax integrity.

The chairman will be Victoria University Pro Vice-Chancellor and dean of the faculty of commerce and administration, Professor Bob Buckle.

The private sector and academic experts on the group will include Rob Cameron, Paul Dunne, Arthur Grimes, Rob McLeod, Gareth Morgan, Mike Shaw, Geof Nightingale, Casey Plunkett, John Shewan, Mark Weldon, John Prebble and David White.
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May 8, 2009 8:51pm
Former Plod

Patrick

My view only, is that he is guilty, despite some questionable investiagtive/operational techniques. It is not a case I have followed, nor do I tend to follow a lot of what they do today.

I still have a lot of good friends in the department, but they too, when we have a quiet beer, like to talk of other things, due to the dissapointment brought about by the present heirarchy, the quality of the heirarchy in comparison with that, that they have had in the past.

Also the judiciary needs to take some responsibilty for the serving members and complainants concerns, that in itself leads to a lot of dissapointment and disillushionment

As for the jury, my fondest memory of a homicide trial, is standing there while the Judge and the Foreman discussed my relationship with the Foremans family. He had more than one immdeiate family member who was a serving member of Police. The Accused was a real scumbag with heaps of previous, which of course could not be released to the jury.

He told me after the trial, that the initial count was 11 for acquit, 1 for convict. The convict, being him of course. It took him two days to talk the othe 11 around to a conviction, which as it tanspired was the correst result, with the Accused later confessing to the murder.
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May 8, 2009 8:55pm
toad

Former Plod said: She [Lynn Provost] along with her former Union Rep. HR Manager Wayne Annan, have successfully ruined what was once a proud and operationally capable Police Department.

Yeah, I don’t know the internal details of that, but I do know Provost’s appointment was long after the dubious (and seriously unlawful, in some cases) activities of Dewar, Shipton, Schollum, Rickards et al.

I think those guys probably damaged the capacity of and community respect for the Police much more than anything Provost, Robinson, or Broad have done.
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May 8, 2009 9:20pm
cha

Former Plod, after reading your contribution I reckon you’d be full of shit.
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May 8, 2009 10:12pm
getstaffed

An ancient Chinese proverb states that a fish rots from the head down. However despicable the actions of Messrs Dewar, Shipton et al were (and I’m in agreement with you on that toad) I think that (a) the proverb probably nails it and (b) Former Plod is probably best placed to offer a qualified assessment.
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May 8, 2009 10:20pm
getstaffed

lofty, Roy Morgan poll is here.

Extract:

In early May support for John Key’s Coalition Government is 59% (up 2.5%) with National Party support 55% (up 5%), Maori Party 2% (down 1.5%), ACT NZ 2% (down 0.5%), and United Future 0% (down 0.5%) according to the Roy Morgan New Zealand Poll conducted April 20 — May 3, 2009.

Support for Opposition parties is 41% (down 2.5%) — Labour Party support is 30.5% (down 2%), Greens 7% (down 1.5%), NZ First 2% (unchanged), Progressive Party 0.5% (up 0.5%) and Others 1% (up 0.5%).

The Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating is at 146.5 (down 5 points) with 66.5% (down 2%) of New Zealanders saying New Zealand is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to only 20% (up 3%) that say New Zealand is ‘heading in the wrong direction.’
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May 8, 2009 10:26pm
oxymoron

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED0905/S00041.htm

NZUSA have put out a press release today about rumours that National is looking to reintroduce interest on student loans. I am skeptical about this claim.

“Students are alarmed at speculation that the Government may be looking to reintroduce interest back onto student loans in the forthcoming budget.”

My question is, which students? Students from NZUSA who claim to represent students? I doubt many students even know there is such an organisation, let alone vote or select anyone in their executive. This speculation…hmm where does it come from? This speculation which they are concerned about seems to be something they came up with themselves!

“Statements made in this week’s Trans Tasman political newsletter indicated that government officials had been working on changes to the interest free student loan policy”

I read a lot of political and education news and I haven’t heard of this publication before. And this publication is not a cheap one to buy or subscribe to. So “students” are alarmed about the meanings of statements they haven’t even read. And of course, what are these statements?
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May 9, 2009 12:03am
stephen

Yeah, it shouldn’t be ‘students’, it should be *anyone with a loan* is concerned. There. Better keep saving my pennies.
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May 9, 2009 9:11am

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