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May 29, 2009 9:19am by David Farrar

General Debate 29 May 2009

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General Debate

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Murray M

Sonic, what about the fuckpigs that won’t work regardless. What do we do with them? I’m OK mate I have enough in reserve to last me at least a year, but thanks for your concern.
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May 30, 2009 12:02am
reid

I can’t believe that somehow you would think that it is something as simple as a “change in attitude” that will solve societies problems?

Firstly Kingi, thanks for finally responding substantively to one of the points made on this and yesterday’s thread. Keep it up.

Why can’t you believe it? It is simple. It’s precisely that simple. Why else does shit happen? The root cause Kingi of someone getting angry and beating up their missus is not because they’re drunk or poor or dumb. It’s because they’re angry. And why are they angry? Well who knows, but when was the last time you got so drunk and angry that you lost it and beat up your missus? What’s that? Never? Well gee. How come, Kingi? Bet you’ve been just as drunk as those other fullas, eh? And you never did it? Foo man. Wut’s going on?

The difference Kingi, between you and them, is attitude. Pure and simple.

You are obviously educated as well. That helps. That really really helps. But even well educated people have fucked attitudes, don’t they? And even poorly educated people have great attitudes, don’t they? So education is not a root cause but its got a high correlation in the success factor factory.

You talk about a “wide array of factors.” OK, name them. Go ahead. Name them.
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May 30, 2009 12:03am
Kingi

Oh my god Smith. You must be stuck in Thomas Moore’s Utopia.
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May 30, 2009 12:03am
F E Smith

no, just know the truth of what I said personally.
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May 30, 2009 12:06am
F E Smith

well said, reid.
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May 30, 2009 12:07am
pentwig

Smithy

“Certainly they bear no relevance to the point I made, so when I ignore such surveys I am not being arrogant at all. If I based my self-worth as a professional on public surveys I would very rapidly change professions! If you are so simple then good for you.” So you agree the the public perceive lawyers to be of low esteem ie in the same league as used car salesman and snake oil venders yet you say it bears no relevance. What the hell are YOU smoking. Once again arrogance.

“However, the actual amount in solicitors annual practising fee is relatively small when compared with the operational component.” In other words – in context to the outrageous fees we charge our clients and what we can screw from the legal aid component.

“It is your last major comment that is just plain dumb, however.” Just to set the record straight I certainly did not call you or your profession honourable.

I am not advocating that you give up your right to freedom of speech at all. In fact I never raised the point. Fortunately in this country everybody has that right and should use it.
What I am saying is that when critisize a minister for his policy and then degrade him that has a negative effect for an already ill perceived occupation. What I am saying is critisize the policy not the man.

But then perhaps you are just pissed off at losing the golden egg us law abiding tax payers have supplied you and you are venting that anger at the minister whom you hold responsible for that lose.
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May 30, 2009 12:26am
F E Smith

pentwig,

trolling is not nice. Formulate some real arguments or go away.
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May 30, 2009 12:32am
F E Smith

hey pentwig, you wouldn’t happen to be Kevin Cantwell, who has a Twitter account (here http://twitter.com/Pentwig) where you follow all those nice Labour and Green MP’s, are you???

Sheesh, calling you a troll was too nice for you!
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May 30, 2009 12:41am
F E Smith

EDIT: the preceding bit may have been a bit too mean…

here’s a hint- don’t use the same nickname for everything.

unless someone else in NZ is using that name as well, which I suppose is possible…
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May 30, 2009 12:50am
pentwig

Smithy

You are an idiot
Pity the poor people who hire you to be their advocate only to find you could not argue yourself out of a primary school debate. As for the parady twitters, they are good humour. Obviously above you to understand.
Oh I am right wing as well.

I am not sorry about your loss of income which judging by your standards shown here would not be all that great anyway.
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May 30, 2009 1:30am
Ryan Sproull

It seems to me you’re sniping away at the margins without addressing the central issues which is unlike you since you usually make some penetrating arguments.

Either you agree with it or you don’t. Fine. If you have a logical argument that undermines it completely then go ahead and play that card.

Reid, I already have.

It’s simple logical necessity.

People’s actions are driven by motivations. Nothing you’ve said contradicts that.
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May 30, 2009 1:43am
F E Smith

go join your friends at the substandard, Kevin.
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May 30, 2009 2:23am
expat

Jarbury the weasel said:
“jarbury (251) Vote: 1 6 Says:
May 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

They did that since November last year expat?

Pretty impressive feat as they weren’t even in government.”

Labour pissed up the economy over the decade they were in power on benes and handouts.

Dont be obtuse you little lickspittle. The substandard is where it has always been, in the gutter, go back where you belong.

HTH’s.
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May 30, 2009 2:24am
goodgod

Good god, what a joke! This isn’t about self-worth. To claim that the government is somehow responsible for people’s innate self worth, is simply ridiculous!

Further to this I take severe objection to using comments of people without their permission to push your own agenda. Common courtesy?

Prove it. Politics is an expression of the experience of many, distilled and projected into logical conclusion in an attempt to ease the anxiety of the unknown future.

Common Courtesy? It’s a public blog on the internet. Sue me.

Tell us your story, Kingi. Stop hiding behind theory and political activism.

Now, not to break up a valid political argument, but to reiterate the point attached to the original challenge which I think may clear up many of these disagreements:

Replies to original challenge need to be in the form of personal experince in context i.e. vignettes of your life story. My experience is that as soon as you try to make conclusions, to bring the event out of context for the construction of a theory, you lose the inherent truths within the event. It matters not one jott who takes what from any particular story. The truths within the story will be self evident. No need for argument, just the truth – the anti-thesis of politics of you like. (Which is unusual for a political blog, but the opportunity is here now.) We all think we are mature adults. Now act like it.

I’ve broken the law many times, faced the blankness that Transmogrifier speaks of, bludged, supported, expressed my courage and my cowardice. In my eyes all political theories are just plain foolishness. I’ve lived within and outside them, been proud of my good points and scared myself to death over my potential for evil. All my actions have been reflections of my attitude to life at any given point. My attitude has changed many times, sometimes through happiness, sometimes through pain. Often I am not even conscious of my attitude – I act before knowing why. Sometimes the why isn’t clear for years.

These are the moments I ask others to post. In context. Not argue about whether I am right or wrong, but what actually happened so that others can follow if they wish, re-interpret ideas for themsleves and move on to greater things.
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May 30, 2009 7:34am
Inventory2

DPF must have had a big night last night – past 10am, and he hasn’t surfaced 🙂
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May 30, 2009 10:11am
Stuart Mackey

Kingi (53) Vote: Add rating 2 Subtract rating 8 Says:
May 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm

Simply put people can’t survive if they don’t have a job! This government have allowed the fear of a credit downgrade to dominate their thinking! I quote Herald columinist Fran O’Sullivan “There’s no great stimulus package to create or protect jobs.”
****************************************

I survived without a job, although I was on the dole, then I got a job and did more than survive. Seriously Kingi, you bitch and whine like a spoilt child who cannot get an endless supply of lollies from mummy and daddy.
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May 30, 2009 2:28pm

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