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May 14, 2009 5:43am by David Farrar

General Debate 14 May 2009

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General Debate

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mickysavage

Melissa Lee thinks the Waterview motorway is a good thing because South Auckland burglars will bypass Mount Albert.

Surely the people of Te Atatu also deserve protection?

The only flaw to her cunning plan, and it is a major flaw, is that the motorway will actually speed up travel from South Auckland and I am reliably informed it will have off ramps in the Mount Albert area.

And she is one of National’s up and coming stars?

I think the Film Commission is due a refund.
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May 14, 2009 7:46am
RainbowGlobalWarming

Piss off back to Ponsonby mickey.
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May 14, 2009 7:52am
Neil

Melissa Lee and National were on a hiding to nothing at that meeting.
Did the Greens actually organize that meeting?. The Greens are adept at having election meetings, stacking them naturally with theit own mates and trying to blast anyone with different views to them out of the water. The Greens are a very dangerous force, the replacers to the old Socialist Unity party.
National should have had someone like Steven Joyce there to explain it,Melissa Lee is a babe in arms in relation to political campaigning.
My last comment is, the traditional hall meeting is now a no no simply because you are providing an audience to outlandish parties like the Greens.
Yet John Key said that National voters wanted to hook up with the Greens. Mr Key, you are already showing signs of getting out of touch. Hard core Greens are the modern day version of the Macgillicudy Serious Party.
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May 14, 2009 8:00am
Inventory2

What DO you do with people like Rachael Brown?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/05/we-despair.html
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May 14, 2009 8:03am
Patrick Starr

mickysavage – Must be an election somewhere huh? and here we all were thinking with labour under new leadership, maybe….just maybe they might try some clean campaigning and the dirty smears would be gone -pffft!

suppose you could remove one or two turds from a cesspit – but it’s still a cesspit
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May 14, 2009 8:07am
Chicken Little

To me the key question for today is –

Does Mickey Savage’s mum still talk to him?, and do they still live under the same bridge together?
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May 14, 2009 8:08am
Murray

Thats a very good question Inventory.
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May 14, 2009 8:09am
CraigM

I2 – yep, very good question.

I have no frikkin idea to be honest. Hopefully we’ll have a couple of years before she is a danger to society again, to come up with some ideas.
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May 14, 2009 8:16am
mickysavage

Patrick Starr

There is no smears. The words are directly from the National candidate’s mouth. I am pleased that she opened her mouth and said what she thinks. Such refreshing honesty should be encouraged.

I suspect that a Crosby Textor senior executive is winging his way to Auckland right now and is scratching his head wondering how he is going to deal with this.
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May 14, 2009 8:19am
Inventory2

Murray and CraigM – nor do I – hence the question! Sure, there’s instant solutions like locking them up and cutting off benefits, but that does nothing to address the underlying social malaise.
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May 14, 2009 8:21am
Murray

Anything we do to curd her bludging alcoholic fueled existance will only result in her taking to more illegal activity and costing us more money.

Any permenant solution fails on the grounds that even as useless specimen as this has “rights”.

However while this one is clearly a write off I would arguethat she is a symptom of a general failure within our society and we need to look at how to get onto to stopping the next generation. It would include the concept of “failure” as being not only an option but the default setting for young people. Along with the concept that actually no, the rest of us actually don’t owe you anything. Try earning it.

We should be looking good in about 150 years.*

*Results may vary if greens are allowed to keep talking.
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May 14, 2009 8:22am
Patrick Starr

Inventory2 – replacing her benefit with food coupons would be a good start – then a hysterectomy

mickysavage “I think the Film Commission is due a refund” is a smear – not from her mouth, but labours
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May 14, 2009 8:23am
Tuija

Neil The Greens have a good presence at election meetings because the Greens are a well organised grass roots party
The local supporters of any party can turn up at any meeting in which ever numbers they want That’s how it is and evermore shall be
maybe National supporters didn’t turn up in numbers because they realise what a completly inept candidate they have chosen.
Not content with abusing the use of public money she seems to think a motorway will make it harder for people of SA to commit crimes in MA. I bet Ravi and his supporters are pissed
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May 14, 2009 8:28am
Murray

The Greens have a good presence at election meetings because the Greens are a well organised grass roots party who don’t have jobs to go to in the morning.
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May 14, 2009 8:35am
MyNameIsJack

Well, it hasn’t taken long for the socialists in the national Socialist party to grab the lead

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2409368/English-tells-banks-to-curb-profits

Nothing like a bit of bank bashing to get the voters on side, eh Bill? Why not go the whole hog, nail your colours to the mast and nationalise all the banks?
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May 14, 2009 8:39am
Murray

Ah the voice of reason and genocide speaks.

This thread is over.
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May 14, 2009 8:40am
Redbaiter

Herald Editor-

You’re an uninformed knuckle dragging moron and a disgrace to journalism.

Steven R. Hurst is a liberal left wing propaganda stooge for Obama whose writing makes a mockery of journalistic ethics.

As this article that is such an openly partisan attack on Dick Cheney shows-

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10572136

Keep printing this NYT style bigoted one eyed shit full of lies and left wing propaganda and you’ll hasten your way to insolvency.

Contemptible loser.
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May 14, 2009 8:44am
starboard

“What DO you do with people like Rachael Brown?”

20 cent copper head…
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May 14, 2009 8:48am
Redbaiter

I see the hate driven left are up to the same old Bolshevik strategies in Mt Albert.

Its Don Brash lied to the Brethren all over again. Once again the left raise weakly based smears that as usual are enthusiastically supported by their stinking cowardly media plants who dare to call themselves journalists.

Same old Bolshevik methods. The politics of personal destruction and to hell with the issues.

That’s because the left never have any ideas on issues other than to raise taxes and increase regulation.

As an aside, I see that contemptible organisation NZ ON Air is “investigating” Miss Lee.

How about some “journalist” investigating NZ On Air and the extremely close links to the Labour Party of some of its senior personnel?

It won’t happen with NZ’s utterly politically corrupt mainstream media.
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May 14, 2009 8:54am
goodgod

Along with the concept that actually no, the rest of us actually don’t owe you anything. Try earning it.

we’ve tried that over the past few hundred years of euro culture and it solves nothing. Crime, poverty, excess, mental illness and substance abuse has been with humans since the moment they found out they could think. Even the least populated village always had an idiot, drunk, thug or thief. Even people who were comparitively wealthy became thieves.

Far as I can see it’s because of life being too comfortable and overly concerned with the collective these days. Soon as people can make a living by making flashy trinkets and relying on the benevolence of corporate bodies for their income, and politics for a promotion and increase in income, the human spirit becomes self destructive. It’s as if it doesnt want to be completely civilised.

But in saying that, who the fuck wants to live in feudal villages and grass huts now we’ve seen the comforts of double glazed urban mansions?

We’re the source of our own problems, making our lives both better and worse at the same time. I think some of the solution lies in an evolution of an existing economic and social “ism” – or perhaps the complete elimination of “isms”. Until that time there isn’t any practical solutions other than ignore it and hope it kills itself off before it hurts too many people.
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May 14, 2009 9:01am
mickysavage

baiter

The media are all over this because Melissa opened her mouth, said something disastrous, and subsequently has continued to say it. What she said was racist and stupid at the same time.

Her honesty is refreshing. More National MPs should say what they actually think rather than spout the Crosby Textor lines they seem to be continuously supplied with.

It is the politics of self destruction. The left are just happy bystanders as this train wreck of a political campaign occurs in front of them.
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May 14, 2009 9:12am
RainbowGlobalWarming

Blah blah, EPMU and standard commie freaks mouth empty words, blah blah crosby textor.

THE LIARBORE PAID UMR SPIN DOCTORS BLED YOU DRY LAST CAMPAIGN.

WINNERS…
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May 14, 2009 9:19am
RKBee

“maybe….just maybe they might try some clean campaigning and the dirty smears would be gone -pffft!”

Yeah Right! the good thing is …
“The People’s Choice Party” are standing a candidate in the Mt Albert by-election.. To give the party exposure and highlight the need for citizens binding initiated referendum’s. “The People’s Choice Party” first choice local candidate has withdrawn, because of overseas obligations. Because of the short notice “The People’s Choice Party” leader Rusty Kane from New Plymouth will take her place. By-elections are a chance for smaller parties like “The People’s Choice Party” to highlight their parties ideals. The party will take full advantage of the exposure the by-election will give them by expressing its democratic right to stand a candidate.“The People’s Choice Party” campaigns on promoting people’s referendums and that majority citizens initiated referendum’s should be binding on the government. In the Mt Albert by-election “The People’s Choice Party” candidate Rusty Kane will promote that the Mt Albert electorate itself should have the greater say on deciding on how a motorway or any major infrastructure should proceed through their electorate. It will also give the voters of Mt Albert a protest vote choice against the main parties that are using the by-election as a tool for their own political corrupt grandstanding. “The People’s Choice Party” believe a by-election is the best place for a community to protest vote against the major parties. By making their community’s points and views known through a smaller party, without the need for their usual main party loyalties, en turn empowering their communities with more say without fear of changing the government.
One point of veiw is the main parties candidates stupidity and lack of understanding of the local communities feelings and wishes for the sake of their own main party politics and agenders.
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May 14, 2009 9:58am
dave strings

One thing I hold as true

If there is a plebiscite, its result should be binding on the government of the day

That is democracy!
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May 14, 2009 10:40am
MyNameIsJack

dave, how about giving an example and then expanding on how the government enacts a yes/no result.
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May 14, 2009 10:42am
wreck1080

I see the softball bat killer just got sentenced to a minimum of 12 years jail , for murdering a guy.

Is this a joke? 12 years for murder?

If you really hated someone, you can just kill them and you can be out in 12. Not that bad really. Also, no one will mess with you when you get out.
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May 14, 2009 10:47am
Ryan Sproull

If you really hated someone, you can just kill them and you can be out in 12. Not that bad really. Also, no one will mess with you when you get out.

Is that a conceivable option for you? 12 years of your life in exchange for killing someone “you really hated”?
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May 14, 2009 10:49am
side show bob

Have to love the crocodile tears from the left, in all forms of media including the lefty two bobs that post here over Lee’s comments. If Lee said something “racist and stupid” then her comments are probably dead right. Perhaps the left can offer Miss Lee coaching on stupid racist comments, as they say, seek the help of professionals.
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May 14, 2009 11:37am
village idiot

Word is, this Government is now being referred to as the ‘Rankin Government’.
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May 14, 2009 12:28pm
Owen McShane

Another cause for concern given today’s Urgency Bill.

I asked my friend and colleague Wendell Cox – an international expert on large city amalgamations (see reports below), whether such Super Amalgamations tended to deliver left or right government of the final Super City. He replied:

“You can bet that the left always wins. The left is better at power and governance (not in terms of quality but in terms of control) and thus routinely takes over the reigns of power. That much power should not be available in a municipal government. Bureaucrats tend to be elitist and generally more left wing, so the advice the councilors and the mayor receives will be more to the left. Democracy is diluted. Taxes are raised from a larger base and spending goes up… not just on personnel.

Here is my commentary published by the National Post at the 10th anniversary of the Toronto merger. Interestingly, there was not a single letter to the editor posted in response… at that point Toronto was having severe budget difficulties.”

So maybe Russel Norman will end up as the Super City Super Mayor. The pay will be much better than a Back Bench MP. Or of course Mike Lee.
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=790bcc66-f18a-4611-a8c2-11f2ff744c23&p=1

I had previously asked if these super city amalgamations are normally driven FROM the left or the right. (Ours was driven by the left but is now adopted by the right.). He replied:

“Regrettably the right and left are of virtually equal distatefulness on the issue. In Toronto, it was a right wing government trying to kill a left wing local government and merge it with more conservative governments, hoping to move things to the right (and get rid of a socialist mayor for whom they had particular dislike, and for whom I worked to try to stop the amalgamation). In the US, much of the consolidation movement… so far getting nowhere (there must be a God) is pushed by the elitist left, with the exception of Indiana (our latest victory I might way), where it is a highly regarded Republican governor is so badly advised on the issue that it is not funny. Often you will find the most vocal proponents of these policies are central city business organizations and central city leftist elites. Then, there are always the misled rightists who think that larger governments will employ fewer people per capita, not realizing that the larger the government the more personnel it needs and trade unions become even more powerful. As I like to say, the only economies of scale in government consolidation are for lobbyists. Here are my reports on the issue”

Toronto
http://www.publicpurpose.com/tor-demo.htm
http://www.newgeography.com/content/00318-the-toronto-megacity-destroying-community-great-cost

Pennsylvania..
http://psats.org/local_gov_growth_report.pdf

New York…
http://www.natat.org/documents/government_efficiency.pdf

Indiana
http://indianatownshipassoc.org/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,7/Itemid,/
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May 14, 2009 12:43pm
Owen McShane

Food for thought given today’s Urgency on the Super City Bill.

I had asked my friend and colleague, Wendell Cox, and expert on local body government and governance, (see reports below) whether the end result of large scale amalgamations was a move to the left or to the right. He replied:

“You can bet that the left always wins. The left is better at power and governance (not in terms of quality but in terms of control) and thus routinely takes over the reigns of power. That much power should not be available in a municipal government. Bureaucrats tend to be elitist and generally more left wing, so the advice the councilors and the mayor receives will be more to the left. Democracy is diluted. Taxes are raised from a larger base and spending goes up… not just on personnel.

Here is my commentary published by the National Post at the 10th anniversary of the Toronto merger. Interestingly, there was not a single letter to the editor posted in response… at that point Toronto was having severe budget difficulties.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=790bcc66-f18a-4611-a8c2-11f2ff744c23&p=

I had previously asked Wendell if the push for amalgamation normally comes from the left or the right. Ours was first from the left but now adopted by the right. He replied:

“Regrettably the right and left are of virtually equal distatefulness on the issue. In Toronto, it was a right wing government trying to kill a left wing local government and merge it with more conservative governments, hoping to move things to the right (and get rid of a socialist mayor for whom they had particular dislike, and for whom I worked to try to stop the amalgamation). In the US, much of the consolidation movement… so far getting nowhere (there must be a God) is pushed by the elitist left, with the exception of Indiana (our latest victory I might way), where it is a highly regarded Republican governor is so badly advised on the issue that it is not funny. Often you will find the most vocal proponents of these policies are central city business organizations and central city leftist elites. Then, there are always the misled rightists who think that larger governments will employ fewer people per capita, not realizing that the larger the government the more personnel it needs and trade unions become even more powerful. As I like to say, the only economies of scale in government consolidation are for lobbyists.

Here are my reports on the issue

Toronto
http://www.publicpurpose.com/tor-demo.htm
http://www.newgeography.com/content/00318-the-toronto-megacity-destroying-community-great-cost

Pennsylvania..
http://psats.org/local_gov_growth_report.pdf

New York…
http://www.natat.org/documents/government_efficiency.pdf

Indiana
http://indianatownshipassoc.org/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,7/Itemid,/

So maybe we shall see Russel Norm as Mayor of Auckland – better money than paid to a back bench MP!
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May 14, 2009 12:56pm
village idiot

Ummm and isn’t the new Labour blog ‘Red Alert’ making Kiwiblog look a little…tacky?
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May 14, 2009 12:59pm
MyNameIsJack

When will the national government move to benefit ordinary, hard working kiwi taxpayers by abolishing the ridiculous tax free status given to religious organisations. Why should one’s tax status be determined by the myths one follows, the lies one swallows?

Tax churches, synagogues, temples, mosques and thier busiensses like everyone else.
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May 14, 2009 1:32pm
Ratbiter

Mickey savage: wow – corrupt AND offensive? And so often we’re told around here that only the evil liarbore would ever stoop so low.

Suddenly muck-raking is objectionable to kiwibloggers, when it’s the muck of people they like that is getting raked up 😀

But if it’s “Winston Lied” or “Cullen called us rich pricks”, oh THAT’S different…
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May 14, 2009 1:41pm
Inventory2

MHNI – do you have to work hard at being a dickhead, or does it come naturally?
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May 14, 2009 1:47pm
paradigm

village idiot says:
“Ummm and isn’t the new Labour blog ‘Red Alert’ making Kiwiblog look a little…tacky?”

Well having you as a patron of Kiwiblog is admittedly a bad look, however one does have to contrast it with the “red alert” blog which seems to have virtually no response comments and is thus patron less. Maybe UMR would call it “exclusive”, but for a blog that defeats the purpose.

The name “Red Alert” was also a dumb choice, search engines will inevitably bury it under scores of entrys about the popular video game series, star trek et al. Similarly associating labour with a series that mocks, highlights and lampoons the stupidity of communism, while however appropriate, is bad advertising.
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May 14, 2009 2:05pm
paradigm

I see the labour-greens-maori axis of idiocy are trying to slow the Auckland legislation with ammendments (introduced by George Hawkins) such as “the number 50 be deleted and replaced with the number 49”. And calling party votes on each ammendment. Utterly retarded waste of time.
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May 14, 2009 2:49pm
Owen McShane

Maybe they are doing this so they can look like they are delaying the Bill while actually they cannot wait to get it in place and have all their central planning dreams come true.
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May 14, 2009 3:20pm
Buggerlugs

Families Commission’s Maori advisor Druis Barrett says the appointment of Christine Rankin is the main reason she quit her job.

Yay. Fuck off. One down….
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May 14, 2009 3:36pm
stephen

Christine Rankin, the former senior bureaucrat now running social policy lobby group For the Sake of Our Children, fits the classic “seeker” profile – a middle-aged Pakeha woman who doesn’t feel spiritually fulfilled by the mainstream faiths.

Rankin, the epitome of the secular Western career woman with a skill for waste-trimming public service reform, enthuses about the big change in her life; earlier this year she discovered Soka Gakkai, a Japanese Buddhist tradition which emphasises the power of chanting.

“It has changed my life, given me a whole new meaning,” Rankin says. “I had a Catholic childhood, full of fear about God and what happens when you die – it was not anything joyous.

“Although I believe I’ve always been very spiritual, I was adamant for a long time that organised religion was not going to feature in my life. Having had that Catholic experience and being rejected because I’m divorced, I wasn’t able to participate when my children had first communion, for example. In that kind of religion, you don’t belong unless you toe the line, and let’s face it, most of us don’t.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10361977

Heh, would NOT have guessed that.
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May 14, 2009 3:59pm
big bruv

I note that B Hussein Messiah Obama is so out of his depth that he has had to call John Key for advice, one would hope that Key told him not to go ahead with the trillion dollar bail out.
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May 14, 2009 4:03pm
adc

what’s with

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10572292

resigning because she thinks she won’t be able to work with CR. Hasn’t even bloody tried. bases her position off an old TV interview (we all know how accurate THOSE are).

I guess the Families Commission is therefore better off without her, since she’s obviously a spineless mental midget that won’t stick around to stand up for what she believes in.

lame
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May 14, 2009 6:32pm

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