General Debate 11 May 2009

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Grant Michael McKenna

The Herald has a story about ” NZ’s 1 million unregistered guns” .
First question- are they all firearms? Shotguns are yes, but how many are “pellet guns”? Are there really a million such unregistered weapons, or is this just possibly a bit of panic?
Second question- if possession of an unregistered firearm meant a mandatory sentence, would the number of unregistered weapons decrease?
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May 11, 2009 8:08am
Inventory2

Why is the Herald claiming a scoop on the Richard Northey story when WhaleOil broke it 60 hours earlier? Another victory for the blogosphere methinks!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/05/credit-where-credits-due.html
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May 11, 2009 8:28am
peterwn

Police Communications – It beggers belief that the police do not seem to have a secure front-line communications system and it seemed it nearly cost an innocent member of the public his life when the Napier offender sent a hail of bullets in his direction once the offender became aware (via a scanner) that the person was giving the police a running commentary.
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May 11, 2009 8:45am
bharmer

Of course they should have secure communications. And the hospitals should have greater capacity and better equipment, and education is broke and in need of fixing, and every other part of the civil service is (in some perceptions) underfunded and unable to perform to best practice levels.

Meanwhile, the clamor for a reduction in the cost of government in all its forms keeps the pressure in the other direction.

It’s not until an episode like this that the spotlight shines on a particular issue that it stands a chance of getting fixed. Meanwhile the next link in the chain (like the shackles that support power wires in Auckland sub-stations) is quietly rusting away, and the one next to that, and the one next to that …

How to balance all the things that need doing with the mood for reduced government expenditure?
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May 11, 2009 9:05am
wynkie

Why no links to Cactus’s story on the NZX????

http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2009/05/nz-information-exchange.html

Is this too upsetting for Key’s to see his golden boy being destroyed??

[DPF: I have a link appearing later today]
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May 11, 2009 9:08am
racer

I’m sure patrick starr and others must have it close at hand, but DPF hasn’t kept a record on the demerits page, could someone tell me how many points i’m up too?
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May 11, 2009 9:10am
Neil

Having just attended the South Island National Party convention I was disappointed with the nil coverage on TVOne last night. Never mind, the party is in good heart.
We had interesting speeches but naturally the main focus was on John Key and even more on Bill English.
The big message that came from Mr English was the fact that this would not be a black budget, but one that prepares for the future by encouraging productivity and removing wasteful spending,like some of the grants to social engineering groups..
I haven’t been in the North Island, Auckland in particular, for a couple of years and it was interesting to hear the comments of Mr English.
The further south you go people say,”What recession?”.
It’s great to see farmers getting about $85 a lamb in contrast to last years $44. A result of the dairy rationalisation where there are now some 20m less lambs going through freezing works. The old principle of supply and demand.
That means places like Oamaru,Ashburton,Gore and Invercargill are still holding up well, with minimal growth in unemployment.
Mr English pointed out that over half of the new unemployment arises in the Auckland area, where peoples lives seemed to be based on debt(housing,credit card etc) Of course the property boom/bust was highlighted there.
People in rural areas mightn’t have the bright lights but haven’t gone out spending recklessly running up huge debts. The goal of increased productivity will start in the rural/regional areas, realism has been part of our lives rather than self-induced hysteria from would be property tycoons.
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May 11, 2009 9:12am
davidp

peterwn>Police Communications – It beggers belief that the police do not seem to have a secure front-line communications system

They’re about to deploy encryption. I’m not involved in the rollout of the encrypted comms itself, but I’m helping them with a support application that will be required once the encryption is in place. It is due to go live any day now.
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May 11, 2009 9:24am
cha

@ Adolf Fiinkensein

Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship

Abstract:

Senator McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to U.S. citizen parents. The Canal Zone was territory controlled by the United States, but it was not incorporated into the Union. As requested by Senator McCain’s campaign, distinguished constitutional lawyers Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson examined the law and issued a detailed opinion offering two reasons that Senator McCain was a natural born citizen. Neither is sound under current law. The Tribe-Olson Opinion suggests that the Canal Zone, then under exclusive U.S. jurisdiction, may have been covered by the Fourteenth Amendment’s grant of citizenship to “all persons born . . . in the United States.” However, in the Insular Cases, the Supreme Court held that “unincorporated territories” were not part of the United States for constitutional purposes. Accordingly, many decisions hold that persons born in unincorporated territories are not Fourteenth Amendment citizens. The Tribe-Olson Opinion also suggests that Senator McCain obtained citizenship by statute. However, the only statute in effect in 1936 did not cover the Canal Zone. Recognizing the gap, in 1937, Congress passed a citizenship law applicable only to the Canal Zone, granting Senator McCain citizenship, but eleven months too late for him to be a citizen at birth. Because Senator John McCain was not a citizen at birth, he is not a “natural born Citizen” and thus is not “eligible to the Office of President” under the Constitution.

This essay concludes by exploring how changes in constitutional law implied by the Tribe-Olson Opinion, such as limiting the Insular Cases and expanding judicial review of immigration and nationality laws passed by Congress, could make Senator McCain a citizen at birth and thus a natural born citizen

Complete paper, pdf.
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May 11, 2009 9:34am
Murray

Racer, not enough.

Keep talking.
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May 11, 2009 9:41am
peterwn

bharmer – point partly taken. However it also seems to me that the Police have established their own sites and network over the years in typical Mr Plod fashion rather than trying to ‘joint venture’ with others (I had a bit of a run-in with Police communications staff some years back and had to deal with one of the rudest aggressive ***** I have ever come across).

As for rusty shackles holding up power wires in substations – Transpower never said that they were not to be examined to save money, it was that the contractor badly botched up by somehow failing to do the inspection work that the contractor was paid to do.
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May 11, 2009 9:43am
gazzmaniac

Would’nt Senator McCain automatically be a US citizen at birth if his parents were both citizens?
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May 11, 2009 9:52am
racer

Okay murray.

So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? What with his “council beater” house (dislike or regulation), his god given right to own guns, his ok for me to break the law attitude towards business (drug growing), and a unhealthy dose of ‘roid rage thrown in for good measure. Sounds like he would fit in here just swimmingly! (Pity about the dead guy though)
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May 11, 2009 9:54am
davidp

gazzmaniac>Would’nt Senator McCain automatically be a US citizen at birth if his parents were both citizens?

His father was in the military and posted to the Canal Zone at the time. So he is certainly a citizen, and certainly meets the requirements for being US President.

Similarly the children of diplomats. If your country sends you overseas to serve, they don’t disenfranchise your children.
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May 11, 2009 10:00am
adamsmith1922

http://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/obama-at-whcd/

Clip of Obama’s quite amusing speech to the White House press corps

[DPF: Yeah I have the full speech on You Tube appearing later today. Quite good]
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May 11, 2009 10:03am
Redbaiter

Bloggers need to keep the heat on the Police over the Brash emails scandal. Something stinks there.
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May 11, 2009 10:04am
racer

Why not just make something up?
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May 11, 2009 10:19am
gazzmaniac

Thanks davidp – that is what I thought. What is cha on about then?
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May 11, 2009 10:23am
gazzmaniac

Australia has just introduced a federal government funded paid maternity leave scheme. New working mothers will get 18 weeks paid parental leave at $500-odd per week.
I am disgusted. The Australian government can’t meet its own ends at the moment (and is blaming the financial crisis – they are a Labor govt) and it is expanding the welfare state.
Becoming a parent is a lifestyle choice, why should I have to fund other people’s lifestyles?

It is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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May 11, 2009 10:32am
Jack5

Could someone elaborate please on how NZ controls firearms? I thought it had a policy of controlling owners rather than the firearms themselves.

See McKenna 8.08am post at the beginning of today’s general debate, which is about the following newspaper report:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571561

If owners are in fact controlled and monitored rather than firearms, then the Herald report Grant Michael McKenna refers to is quite flawed and inadequate.

Also how do the Herald and Borrows get the figure of a million unregistered firerarms? It seems a helluva lot. Are they stockpiled in the Ureweras?
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May 11, 2009 10:33am
Redbaiter

Gun registration is just an urban liberal feel good jerk off.
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May 11, 2009 10:34am
Murray

“So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? ”

Yeah he certainly scans like one of your type racer. A tiny penised dickhead who could benfit from 10 grams of lead and brass. Well spotted.

“Why not just make something up?”
You’ve already cornered that market by the looks of things.

But allow to express my admiration for the lefts continued ability to take loss of life to push their own pathetic egos once more. Your commitment to self interest is without rival. It will certainly help the people of Mt Albert make up their minds.
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May 11, 2009 10:46am
cha

Thanks davidp – that is what I thought. What is cha on about then?

Stirring the pot for fun is what I’m on about but if you took the time to read the paper you’d see that McCain may not be a natural born citizen and the Qualifications for office of Article Two of the United States Constitution states

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
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May 11, 2009 10:47am
racer

Murray
“So, what about this Molenaar character, sounds a bit like a Kiwiblogger huh? ”

Yeah he certainly scans like one of your type racer. A tiny penised dickhead who could benfit from 10 grams of lead and brass. Well spotted.”

Wow, murray advocating for my murder, that brings trying to silence me to a whole new level!
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May 11, 2009 10:54am
Jack5

Racer: why aren’t you at school today?
Or are you there and using an iPhone or some such?
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May 11, 2009 10:57am
racer

No, I don’t go to school. Ah I only wish I had an I phone, might go for an N95 once the competition heats up a little, can you post on kiwiblog with one of them?
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May 11, 2009 11:03am
CraigM

Change of subject – is anyone following the story of the extremely well-perked MP’s in the UK. They have taken the baubles of office concept to a whole new level.

The Labour party MP’s seem to be the biggest tax-payer-money grabbers. What a disgrace.
The spotlight is now on the Tories, but it doesn’t appear as if they are anywhere near as greedy, unethical or morally corrupt as the Labour MP’s.

If the polls weren’t bad enough for labour, this could make the next election an absolute bloodbath.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/31/mps-expenses-for-sale
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/5264069/Labour-MP-claimed-sauna-on-expenses.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021775/Mr-Mrs-expenses-MP-couple-175-000-flat—house-just-30-minutes-away.html

My question: is there such a list of MP’s expenses in NZ and can we please see it?
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May 11, 2009 11:11am
cha

I’ve posted this before but for you CraigM here’s the google spread sheet.

UK MPs expense claims
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May 11, 2009 11:27am
Murray

Racer. Suicide cock head. Jesus get a newspaper why don’t you.

Besides with scum as repuslive as you its post natal abortion anyway. Senstive little petal when its you getting the attention aren’t you.

And by the way, crying once more that I have ever tried to “silence you” is really just pathetic, you’re a fucking liar. Simple as that. If I had “tried” to silence you you’d be making a shit load less noise I can assure you. (No dick breath its not a threat, its an observation) Once more with the “help help I’m being repressed” bullshit. I’m all for you wankers saying anything you like, it gives the voters something to judge the greens and labour on. You’re the best National and Act could have hoped for.

But hey Jesus loves you! (Everyone else thinks you’re a dick.)
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May 11, 2009 11:30am
Brian Smaller

Anyone else seen the news that once again Bailey Junior Kurariki has been given bail. His charge of male assuults female dropped to one of just assault. How long do you give before he commits yet another crime while on bail?
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May 11, 2009 11:54am
Fisiani

From UK

1. Teaching Maths In 1970
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.
What is his profit?

2. Teaching Maths In 1980
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is 80% of the price.
What is his profit?

3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is £80.
How much was his profit?

4. Teaching Maths In 2000
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is £80 and his profit is £20.
Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Maths In 2005
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habit of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.
Your assignment: Discuss how did the birds and squirrels might feel as the logger cut down their homes just for a measly profit of £20.

5. Teaching Maths In 2009
A logger is arrested for trying to cut down a tree in case it is offensive to Muslims who have a mosque nearby. He is also fined a £100 by the European Union as his chainsaw is breach of Health & Safety as it deemed a danger and could cut something. He protests and is taken to court and fined another £100 when he reveals that the chainsaw runs off petrol and he is in breach of his Carbon Allowance. When he is released from jail he returns to find Gypsies have cut down half his wood to build a camp on his land. He tries to throw them off but is arrested, imprisoned and fined a further £100. While he is in jail the Gypsies cut down his wood and sell it on the black market for £100 a load, tax free until all his wood is gone.

Your assignment: How many times is the logger going to have to be arrested and fined before he realises that he is never going to make £20 profit by hard work, give up, sign onto the dole and live off the state for the rest of his life?

5. Teaching Maths In 2010
A logger doesn’t sell a lorry load of timber because he can’t get a loan to buy a new lorry because his bank has leant all the their money to some dodgey crooks in South American to fund their Sub-Prime Mortgage scandal and only have enough money left to pay million pound bonuses to their fund managers.

The logger can’t even afford to put petrol in his old lorry built in the 1970’s and Health & Safety have banned him from using chain saws to cut down the trees in case he hurts himself.

Some Eastern European loggers have undercut him on price anyway and are sending all the cash they make back home, while claiming unemployment for themselves as well as all their relatives back home.

The logger tries to protest about it but is accused of being racist and locked away, but as there was no room in the prison, as it’s full of Bulgarians who’ve raped loads of our women just so they get put in jail and watch Sky Sports for free for the rest of their lives.

The Government borrow more money to pay the bankers back so that they can pay bigger bonuses to themselves; and following a successful German car scrappage scheme whereby the German Government pays it’s people £2,000 if they buy a new car to help prop up the German car industry, our Government also pledges £2,000 so that we can buy a new car and help prop up………the German car industry over here as well!

You do the maths.

6. Teaching Maths 2017
أ المسجل تبيع حموله شاحنة من الخشب من اجل 100 دولار. صاحب تكلفة الانتاج من الثمن. ما هو الربح له؟
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May 11, 2009 11:59am
Redbaiter

I think Mr. Farrar allows Mickey Savage and Racer to post here 1) just to emphasize the point that to be a leftist one has to be brain dead and 2) to demonstrate just how ineffective and utterly useless the left are as a political force these days.

A thin veneer of posing fake intellectuals like Trotter et al underpinned by a legion of low life gape jawed knuckle dragging morons like these two. What a joke outfit.
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May 11, 2009 11:59am
Murray

Farce red, its spelt FARCE.
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May 11, 2009 12:03pm
burt

racer

You are a disgrace.
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May 11, 2009 12:21pm
WraithX

Cha: interpretation is a very finicky thing. In fact, you could interpret that quote to mean that no one can be president:

“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution”

Surely you can say that no living American was a citizen of the US at the time of the adoption of the constitution – they would be over 200 years old! Therefore no living American is eligible to be president.
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May 11, 2009 1:01pm
big bruv

Is anybody surprised that Bailey Junior Kurariki has been granted bail in his latest brush with the law (if you call assault a “brush”)

Why did we ever let this piece of human filth out in the first place, he should be spending the rest of his life behind bars.
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May 11, 2009 1:31pm
Komata

BB

Why did we let him out? Very simply, because he is :

Still only a child at heart

He doesn’t understand the enormity of what he has done

He is Maori and they need special treament (the Treaty guarantees it)

He says he will NEVER do it again

The Greens think he is soooo misunderstood

He is going to live with such a NICE family

All teh lady psychologists think he looks so cute and he’s made sooo much progress

He has said he is now going to be a better member of society

He now understands ‘responsibility’

Uncle Pita and Aunty Tariana say that he is ENTITLED to be let out (the Treaty says so)

His family and whanau have assure us that they will look after him

All and any of the above – you choose!!

(And remember, us Pakeha mustn’t tell the truth – it might hurt his tender, Maori, easily offended feelings – and Uncle Pita and all the ‘real new Zealanders’ will be SOOO angry!! THey might even march on Parliament – or hold a hui to protest)
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May 11, 2009 2:05pm
canuckiwi01

Groundhog Day, anyone??? Just to entirely change the topic… an amusing/interesting twist on the ‘Peak Oil’ sage, now that US$60/bbl has been breached again, on Petroleum news.net…
petroleumnews.net/storyview.asp?storyid=1026916&sectionsource=s0
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May 11, 2009 2:07pm
Ryan Sproull

Why did we let him out? Very simply, because he is :

Still only a child at heart

He doesn’t understand the enormity of what he has done

He is Maori and they need special treament (the Treaty guarantees it)

He says he will NEVER do it again

The Greens think he is soooo misunderstood

He is going to live with such a NICE family

All teh lady psychologists think he looks so cute and he’s made sooo much progress

He has said he is now going to be a better member of society

He now understands ‘responsibility’

Uncle Pita and Aunty Tariana say that he is ENTITLED to be let out (the Treaty says so)

His family and whanau have assure us that they will look after him

All and any of the above – you choose!!

Citations needed.
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May 11, 2009 2:15pm
racer

“Murray

And by the way, crying once more that I have ever tried to “silence you” is really just pathetic, you’re a fucking liar.”
You have, multiple times, you still are, your a joke if you think other wise.

“Murray
If I had “tried” to silence you you’d be making a shit load less noise I can assure you. (No dick breath its not a threat, its an observation)”
Thats a threat of physical violence, I would be very careful repeating such a thing (I hope you realize that you’ve committed a crime, though you probably don’t as your thick as pig shit).

“burt

You are a disgrace.”

Burt, you’re a cunt.

[DPF: I allowed the earlier c words, but calling someone the c word is what crosses the boundary – 20 demerits]
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May 11, 2009 3:10pm
racer

And threatening violence doesn’t, fantastic!

[DPF: It was not a threat – Murray was very specific.]
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May 11, 2009 3:58pm
jarbury

Canuck, oil price rises will be one of the first things that let us know when the world economy starts to recover. I’ve heard that the futures pricing for the middle of next year are well over $100 a barrel.

I would love to have a citation, but that was from someone’s comment on a blog a while back.
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May 11, 2009 4:05pm
Murray

Thats right racer, I’m army trained, my violence is very specific.

Oh and Ha ha!
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May 11, 2009 5:52pm
racer

racer
And threatening violence doesn’t, fantastic!

[DPF: It was not a threat – Murray was very specific.]

Then what the hell was it?

Murry, enjoy the next few days, they will be your last, this is not a threat, its an observation.
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May 11, 2009 7:05pm
racer

You mean your trained to be thick as fuck?
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May 11, 2009 7:09pm
Banana Llama

Enjoy the next few days Racer, they could be your last, this is not a threat, just a fact.
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May 11, 2009 7:58pm
WebWrat

Ah! Got you racer.
I’ve been trying to figure out the meaning of your 237 posts.
I’ve finally twigged.
You’re trying to tell us you are a fuckwit.
Sorry I’m a bit slow.

There probably are 1 million unregistered firearms in NZ.
You don’t have to register ‘normal’ (Class A ?) firearms.
To own a firearm, you have to be licenced.
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May 11, 2009 8:58pm
racer

Now now, we wouldn’t want an axe planted squarely into Murrays skull (well most of us anyway), not a threat, just a fact.
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May 11, 2009 9:33pm
Murray

“You mean your trained to be thick as fuck?”

Yes, just like the crews of those lavs that went into Napier and half the AOL. You sad pathetic little jerckoff. Like the other lettie trolls here you’re a pretty offensive bit of refuse aren’t you.

Indulge in your little hate fest with your fantasies of violence while you can. You’re simply too stupid to know when to shut up. It was about a week ago by the way.

You’ve alreay talked yourself into a 20 demerits and you’re well on the way to getting your silly little ass banned entirely.

And once more: Ha ha!
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May 12, 2009 8:10am
racer

And you will enjoy the day im banned, when you no longer have to read my opinion that you object to so much, that obviously hurts your pea brain so badly.
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May 12, 2009 9:21am
Murray

Back to kindy now racer, play time is over.
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May 12, 2009 11:09am
racer

At least i’ve not got a court order banning me from going to close to kindies.

[DPF: And good bye with 50 demerits]
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May 12, 2009 11:16am
Murray

Would you like to make an openly defamatory accusation or are you going to go with the gutless inudeno and dirty little smeers we’ve come to expect from the emotionally crippled socialists who have delusions of relevance?
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May 12, 2009 11:22am
racer

I haven’t accused anyone of anything, I’m just pointing out that I haven’t got a court order preventing me going near kindergartens.

Does someone have a guilty conscience?
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May 12, 2009 11:24am
Ryan Sproull

For fuck’s sake, you two. Would you just have sex and get it over with?
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May 12, 2009 11:24am
racer

I’ve offered him many a sword fight, but alas…
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May 12, 2009 11:29am
Murray

You’ve done what now?

Jsus what a fantasy world you live in.

So you’re chossing option two gutless inudeno and dirty little smeers.

You a really pathetic wannbe really aren’t you racer. You’re the reason this country fired Helen Clark. We sick of nasty little bits of human refuse thinking they matter.

The insights into the “workings” of you mind are enough to make anyone want to take a shower. You’re delusions of cleverness aren’t fooling anyone and you fixation is more than a little unhealthy.

Go get some therapy.
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May 12, 2009 11:30am
racer

I’m the reason Labour lost the last election? shouldn’t you be showering me in gifts?
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May 12, 2009 11:33am
Barnsley Bill

Is anybody else feeling like we are seeing the ghost of Robinsod?
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May 12, 2009 11:43am
Murray

And finally;

Ha ha!
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May 15, 2009 10:18am

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