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April 10, 2009 8:19am by David Farrar

General Debate 10 April 2009

Have a Good Friday.

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General Debate

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reid

Have a look at this Argentinian guy if you’re interested in the GFC.

Essentially he says that Argentina has seen this cycle three times in his lifetime. Remember the hyperinflation there – 10,000% – was it in the 80’s? He says there are four elements he sees every time – one of them being that gains are privatised when the money is flowing and losses are then socialised when it stops. You can see that now, can’t you. He also suggests there are two plans. Plan A which is what we’re now seeing with the bailouts, never works. Plan B is to change the currency.

You should watch it.
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April 10, 2009 8:37am
greenfly

Holiday! Great! Think I’ll grab my bike and take a long ride on the John Key Cycleway! Hang on …..
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April 10, 2009 8:39am
billyborker

Hi reid, and others.

Reid, yesterday, in another thread, you wrote “Religion and science aren’t in opposition, they are perfectly compatible”

I’d like to hear more on that, as I honestly do not believe they are. How can science, which keeps looking for answers and changes as new discoveries are made, be in any way compatible with religion that believes everything is already known?
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April 10, 2009 8:42am
bobux

Thats right, greenfly.

Those damned righties haven’t managed to construct a thousand kilometres of cycle path, and its been a full month since their glorious leader first suggested it.

Stalin or Chairman Mao would never have tolerated such bourgeois slacking. Once Catherine Delahunty is in power, the masses will learn the true meaning of solidarity and discipline.
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April 10, 2009 8:47am
reid

I’d like to hear more on that, as I honestly do not believe they are. How can science, which keeps looking for answers and changes as new discoveries are made, be in any way compatible with religion that believes everything is already known?

Well billy, religion doesn’t say that people know everything, so I’m not quite sure where the irregularity is.

Have you read any of the articles in those links? Have a look at those to get the basis of the argument
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April 10, 2009 8:56am
jcuknz

This morning’s New York Times has an op-ed [ http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/opinion/09ponnuru.html?_r=1&ref=opinion ] pointing out the dis-advantages of universal health care and promoting insurance financed health care with the option of freedom for those who decide not to participate. He makes it sound great except there is basic flaw in insurance. It is naturally based on the cost of covering people and varies according to age.

It is well known that the most cost normally occurs at either end of life … from birth and towards death …. so premiums are increased as one grows older … when in most or many cases one’s income is lower.

For that reason I consider private insurance to be a confidence trick and it is obvious that the only satisfactory system is for the government, either through a department or SOE style organisation, to tax everybody and provide for everybody with premiums bases on whole of life costs. The 1/6d in the pound system of the fifties which was swollowed into general taxation with PAYE. Perhaps the cost today is 60c in two dollars … the average person simply doesn’t know.

The confidence trick is that companies attract people with lower premiums in their younger years and then slug them on retirement. This is the pragmatic result of running the system …. but it is no less a confidence trick for that.

There is an alternative system which attracts some and that is the Tontin [?] where premiums are returned to the person if not called upon after a number of years. The principle behind this has a side benefit for the married person whose premiums, some of it, would be returned to the family upon an early death. Except of course how does the family continue to pay for their health coverage?
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April 10, 2009 8:57am
davidp

Wellington is just PACKED full of people having reunions. It is hard to move around the city because of the sheer number of reunions going on. Thank goodness the government forced shops to close so that NZers would all have the opportunity to organise and attend reunions this weekend.
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April 10, 2009 9:04am
Peter2715626

I think the government should not be involved in health care at all.
This would mean lower taxes so everyone should pay for their own health related costs. Then there would be also incentives for people to work harder, to be responsible, and to save money for health care if they knew they could only rely on themselves.
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April 10, 2009 9:07am
billyborker

Thanks reid, but I was actually interested in your reasons, not those of others. At the moment it just looks like a “The bible says it, I believe it, that settles it” argument.

I guess i could have been a tad clearer about religion saying everything is already known. As far as religion, that is what it is about. Regardless of proof, religious people cling to religious views, whereas science will change as new information comes to light.

So, in what way do YOU belive science and religion are compatible?
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April 10, 2009 9:08am
Patrick Starr

reid, Im always suspicious of ‘international analyst’s’ like him without any specialised field, If he is indeed the same Adrian Salbuchi who wrote this: “THE MASSACRE IN GAZA CONTINUES…“10 Key Questions for israeli zionists ” (by Adrian Salbuchi)”

particularly when he’s videoing/promoting himself through a handicam in his apartment
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April 10, 2009 9:23am
reid

billy, my reasons are in those articles.

In what way do YOU believe science and religion are incompatible?
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April 10, 2009 9:25am
reid

By all means be skeptical of him and his qualifications, Patrick.

But I don’t see how that affects the logic of his perspective. What he says is useful background on what might happen, as I see it.
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April 10, 2009 9:27am
Patrick Starr

“But I don’t see how that affects the logic of his perspective.”

It’s not the logic of his perspective that concerns me – it’s the motive behind his perspective.
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April 10, 2009 9:35am
Inventory2

You may (or may not) enjoy our musical reflection on Good Friday

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/04/easter-reflection-thief.html
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April 10, 2009 9:39am
Brabus

Daniel Hannan having a go at Gordan Brown well worth a gander regardless of political leanings. His delivery is excellent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
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April 10, 2009 9:40am
reid

“…it’s the motive behind his perspective”

Yeh but so what? What he says is a reasonable explanation to what’s happened before our eyes so far.

It’s a fact that the losses are being socialised while the profits in the good times were privatised, isn’t it. Undeniable.

Plan A clearly is not working and won’t work, as myself and others have said from the beginning. Plan A is not making the banks start lending to each other again. Until they do that, the international finance market which provides us and all other nations who live in debt our funds, will remain frozen. The only way Obama will make that happen is to nationalise the banks that dealt in derivatives, without compensation to the shareholders, then fire all the managers that allowed this to happen and direct the replacement staff to begin lending again. He won’t do that, but that’s the only thing that would make Plan A work. So what the hell IS Plan B, if it’s not a currency change?

It’s a fact retaining the USD as the reserve is under serious international consideration right now. It’s also a fact that the US is encouraging serious internal inflation, by printing money for the bailouts. The latter is fueling demand for the former. If other nations decide to desert the USD, that could trigger Plan B.

I don’t know if that will actually happen of course, but it’s an interesting possibility, is how I look at it.
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April 10, 2009 9:49am
Patrick Starr

“Yeh but so what? ”

The motives may uncover why he has given the perspective he has. It would be like listening to Stephanie Mills give her best recipes for cooking with whale meat.
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April 10, 2009 9:59am
greenfly

bobux – don’t get me wrong. I wasn’t expecting to ride the full 1000 kms! I’d be happy to take a shorter jaunt along the section that has been built so far (after all, these are desperate times and we need to create real jobs) , shake the hands of those with the new job of building it (admittedly, it’s their holiday too, unless the’ve been granted the choice to spend the day swinging a pick and shovel. Where should I begin my journey?
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April 10, 2009 10:04am
reid

“The motives may uncover why he has given the perspective he has.”

Like I said above, personally I see it’s a reasonable explanation. In what ways do you see that it’s not?
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April 10, 2009 10:05am
Banana Llama

They are in a tight spot Reid, they can’t switch to another currency once inflation sets in either since that would probably wipe out alot of creditor nations, don’t see how they can back their currency with gold/silver either as they are completely broke so we will probably see more of this special drawing rights (Plan fail B) bullshit from the world bank which wont change much at all.
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April 10, 2009 10:08am
reid

Well Banana, if the world looks to switch to the Euro, the US could easily propose an alternative currency which may or may not be along the lines he suggests.

Holding the reserve is a critical tactical advantage in finance and in geopolitics. The US won’t let it go elsewhere, without careful consideration.
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April 10, 2009 10:15am
Patrick Starr

“I see it’s a reasonable explanation. In what ways do you see that it’s not?”

Gee reid, I dunno, it’s just something he said that I found quite unsettling,……….. it was probably his opening advice of: “Go get your money out of the bank fast” that had a ring of deliberate total collapse about it
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April 10, 2009 10:17am
reid

“that had a ring of deliberate total collapse about it”

Well Patrick it could happen. Do you doubt that?
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April 10, 2009 10:31am
Banana Llama

I quite liked this guy from ex Soviet Rus explaining what happens when currency’s go tits up from inflation, sorry for the long link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCq8TrfYlzc&feature=channel_page
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April 10, 2009 10:34am
Patrick Starr

reid. If his advice was followed I would have no doubt it would happen
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April 10, 2009 10:56am
PaulL

So, listened to focus on politics this morning. http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/focusonpolitics

A full length interview of Helen Clark. I think I’ve heard them do that a few times for Labour – an opportunity to speak with no challenges or opposing points of view. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone from another party given that opportunity. Anyway, Helen is leaving, so perhaps it is appropriate.

It was very interesting hearing Helen’s perspective on things. She certainly isn’t shy in promoting how wonderful she is. If the rest of the Labour party shares that perspective, it just goes to show how out of touch they really are. I learned the following pearls (amongst others)
– On how the good economic times of the early 21st century weren’t luck, but were carefully planned, and were a result of the government intervening in the market instead of leaving it alone. Given that the evidence shows a fall in productivity growth as the government grew and intervened in the market, I think this is wilful ignorance of the facts
– On the rumours surrounding her and Peter Davis, I learned that Mike Moore never suffered similar attacks, although he and Yvonne also had no children. And how that was conclusive evidence that it must have been because she was a woman – since that is the only difference
– On how Don Brash at least was honest about his hard right agenda, and how NZers didn’t study history and so had repeated the errors of the past, electing a National government that was lying about their agenda. And how, since the election, that had become clear. Not sure how this squares with the very moderate programme from National since the election, and the sky high approval ratings
– On how she, as a women and very left wing, had to moderate her programme and her style so as to “connect with the people.” Apparently this isn’t lying to the people or hiding your agenda, not like those nasty Nats
– On how her government was comparable to the great labour government of the 30s, blazing a path in social policy and new ideas. Rather than recycling failed socialist ideas from the past. Very interesting perspective there…
– How they had introduced constitutional reform by stealth (she even says that!!) in the supreme court. Somehow that isn’t hiding your agenda either

Overall, I hope that the current Labour ministers also agree with this line. I hope they see their government as a massive success, and their voting out as a mistake that NZers will wake up from. I hope they campaign on their record in the next election, because that means they’ll lose that election as well. And it will take John Key (action man though he is) at least two terms to rid us of the worst excesses of the Labour government.
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April 10, 2009 10:58am
reid

“If his advice was followed I would have no doubt it would happen”

Well it might happen anyway Patrick.

That’s really the point he’s making.
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April 10, 2009 11:02am
reid

She really is quite deluded isn’t she, Paul.

She’ll do really well at the UN.

It’s not out of the question she could one day run for Secretary-General. Crikey.
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April 10, 2009 11:16am
Komata

(Former) Dear Leader as the Secretary General of the UN?

Sadly, it’s not so funny, and just one more step along the ‘One World’-path which is slowly coming into play.

She’s not the Anti-Christ, but is certainly helping his arrival – a ‘minion’ (gasp – FDL a minion!!) if you will.

Makes you wonder though who is pulling HER strings?

We live in interesting times . . .
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April 10, 2009 12:12pm
shaun

New topic if I may….

Is it true that Aussies can come to NZ and use our student loan system to pay for study here?
How do we force them to pay it back
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April 10, 2009 12:25pm
dime

hey Greenfly, its pretty cool that after 6 months of this evil right wing government, the only thing you have to complain about is fat kids eating pies at school and the cycle way not being built!

i know you think that constantly bringing up the cycleway, you are somehow embarrassing john key.. but no one cares dude.

its not like john key stole 800k of taxpayers money, put “i will built a cycleway” on a pledge card and then didn’t go ahead with it!
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April 10, 2009 12:29pm
cha

An interesting article from the Financial Times, Ten principles for a Black Swan-proof world.
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April 10, 2009 12:54pm
greenfly

hey Dime – I don’t often complain ’cause I’m a happy-go-lucky sort of guy. The cycleway though – sounded exciting, when Key announced it! We were all ears, but it’s been all downhill since then (not the cycleway, sadly, that’s gone nowhere ). It’s just that Key made the exciting claim, caught the public’s imagination, then dashed our hopes (actually Bill English was given the job of souring the excitement – po-faced sour-puss that he is). So, it’s not that Key will be embarrassed by my twitterings, but it’s worth keeping the issue alive in case something does ever come of it. I only hope it’s not indicative of Key’s other schemes though, a damp squib like the cycleway.
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April 10, 2009 12:59pm
reid

“the exciting claim”

If you got exited by that, greenfly, I’d hate to think what you do when something important happens.
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April 10, 2009 1:02pm
cha

And a link to the non-registered version, Ten principles for a Black Swan-proof world.
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April 10, 2009 1:03pm
burt

greenfly

Have you nothing better to do than act like a twat?

Hey guess what, Clark has left and Cullen is about to follow – who will the Green party snuggle up to now? Oh National – how quaint.
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April 10, 2009 1:18pm
greenfly

burt’n’dime – on reflection, it’s not the non-existant cycleway that rankles, it’s the cock-up, waste-of-space, talk-fest of a Job Summit that so irritating! Key said ‘Do-Fest’, but that was crap! Talk-fest it was, and that’s all. It reeks of something the Socialisats would have done and you guys would haave hammered them for, but when it’s your boy – well, it was shite. The on-going reminder of that neutered gab-fest, is the ‘progress’ of the cycleway. Tell me I’m wrong.
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April 10, 2009 1:54pm
reid

You’re on the money, greenfly.

I think it’s a shame it hasn’t amounted to much and I also think the political marketing around its outputs has also been less than it should have been for such an event.

It’s not too late but time is running out for that. I think it’s done its dash, which has turned out on current observation to be more like a tortoise with three broken legs upside down on it’s shell for 75% of the race.

I’m sure Weldon did his usually excellent job with coordinating it, it’s not his fault the ideas were what they are.

As I’ve said before, number of scientists at that conference = zero. Hello?
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April 10, 2009 2:14pm
Nikki Pender

“Religion and science aren’t in opposition, they are perfectly compatible”
I’d like to hear more on that, as I honestly do not believe they are. How can science, which keeps looking for answers and changes as new discoveries are made, be in any way compatible with religion that believes everything is already known?

Reid and Billyborker – I recommend you read Ken Wilber’s “The Marriage of Sense and Soul”
http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Sense-Soul-Integrating-Religion/dp/0767903439

The key is not to confine either concept too narrowly. So that “spirituality” would encompass more than just the dogma of organised religions and all spiritual claims would be subject to direct verification. On the other hand, the empiricism of “science” would expand beyond mere sensory experience to direct experience in general.
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April 10, 2009 2:21pm
burt

greenfly

You are not wrong. You are right about the talk fest and you are right that the cycleway has been tacked to it to remind us all that it’s achieved diddly squat. This is the problem – nothing has been achieved.

I agree there are folk who support the talk fest from National when they would have bagged Labour for it. Likewise there are people who support Labour in such adventures and then bag National for it. Partisan politics, it’s OK when our side does it. Complete BS isn’t it.

You will get no argument from me that both sides should be judged against their actions and the outcomes of those actions rather than just judge them relative to each other.

The problem as I see it is that the ‘cycleway’ is way underestimated. Otago rail trail teaches us that there is a demand. It’s the stops along the way combined with the scenery that make the ride an adventure. The number of businesses that have sprung up along the trail is testament to the validity of the plan. The old Taupo to Napier railroad was mentioned as a starter for development. Imagine the impact to Napier, Taupo and all the coffe shops and cafe’s & B&B operations along the route? All the while encouraging exercise, adventure, tourism, sustainable local business etc etc.

IMHO: This shit is bread and butter Green party initiative and it’s stunning you lot mock it.
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April 10, 2009 2:55pm
PaulL

greenfly: what exactly would you like to have happened on the cycleway by now? Bill English said it wouldn’t all be built in one year. And that is a surprise to you?
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April 10, 2009 3:10pm
burt

PaulL

He’s probably wanting the Green party to pull the same move on the cycleway that Labour did on fully tax deductible charity donations. When National proposed it Labour scorned ‘Tory charity’, then they surprised everybody having it in the budget once the reef-fish had forgotten about it.

So stage 1 is resoundingly denigrate the idea and turn public opinion. Stage 2 is reintroduce it at a politically expedient time when people have forgotten why they didn’t like it last time. (6 months us usually sufficient).
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April 10, 2009 3:23pm
greenfly

burt – I’m not mocking the concept of a cycleway. The Otago railtrail is excellent (my family road it last year) I walked the trail years before it was converted and saw the potential then. No doubt there are many other routes throughout the country. I think Key really doesn’t have a clue about how an ‘on the ground’ project like a cycleway would work. He’s not the kind of guy who is in touch with those kind of activities, hence the stalling of the national project.

PaulL – Bill English’s comments were a direct slap in the face for Key and anyone following the development with any real interest. He slammed it for a six with his ‘not this year, next year or the year after’ comment. Did you see it? Weren’t you taken aback?
The cycleway idea should never have been allowed to moulder and shrivel the way it has. What a wasted opportunity.

burt (part 2) crap.
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April 10, 2009 3:58pm
oob

greenfly wrote: Holiday! Great! Think I’ll grab my bike and take a long ride..

http://www.bicycletouringpro.com/photos/various/perceived-hippie.jpg

BLAM!
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April 10, 2009 4:35pm
greenfly

out of bread (who’s on a mission! exciting!) said:

blam

but mistakenly chose the wrong word! Phut! best describes the ‘calibre’ of his attack. Phuuuutttttt, uutt, utt, tt..t..t..t……………………….t
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April 10, 2009 4:57pm
greenfly

nice photo though. I look great in that jacket. It was a gift from Big Bruv.
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April 10, 2009 4:59pm
Redbaiter

Wrong sex, wrong person oob-

Here’s the real bike riding Greenfly

http://www.truthaboutabs.com/images/cms/Image/fat_woman_on_bike%20(2).jpg
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April 10, 2009 5:06pm
Redbaiter

Try this one-

http://www.truthaboutabs.com/images/cms/Image/fat_woman_on_bike%20(2).jpg
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April 10, 2009 5:07pm
Redbaiter

Bugger that missing edit function.

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/dv1525002.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=74DAE4A9522E9CE52F1997AF50BA80DBE30A760B0D811297

That should work.
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April 10, 2009 5:09pm
joeAverage

I bet no one gives the finger to a piss poor islander/maori driver in dorkland um worries about the mediocre, blog postings that you were worring about on kiwiblog could fade away when your face is being smashed in by a footpath by a aggresive drug/pissed fired up so called???????? first arrival(maori) or islander, take it carefully in dorkland ,its a death/bash zone up there. Its day by day bashings, but aucklanders its your city????.ps avoid OLD bemmers
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April 10, 2009 5:13pm
greenfly

jeeze Deadslater – two misfires!! I’m as safe as houses.
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April 10, 2009 5:23pm
greenfly

but you got me on the third! That’s me, for sure, in my favourite pink exer-suit. Love the way it hides my slight plumpness!
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April 10, 2009 5:24pm
PaulL

greenfly, I think you’re mistaken. He said that the full amount wouldn’t be spent this year, next year or the year after. Let me guess why…..it takes longer than three years to build a cycleway. Shit, there we go, rebellion in the National ranks. John Key says “we’ll build a cycleway, it’ll cost $50 million” and Bill English says “looks to me like that’ll take a few years to build.”

I’d hate to see what they’ll do for a full scale mutiny. Wear different colour ties?
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April 10, 2009 5:37pm
greenfly

PaulL – I think you’re covering up for what is a very dissapointing effort by Key and English. The stated aim of the cycleway was to stimulate the economy and create real jobs, in light of the financial crisis we find ourselves in. The suggestion at the time it was announced, that this would’nt happen ‘for a few years’, perhaps after the crisis passes, would have been met with guffaws and gales of mocking laughter, had the two of them said that on day one. Saying it a few weeks later, amazingly, has the likes of you defending the lame, lame situation.
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April 10, 2009 5:43pm
burt

greenfly

Please clarify, do you think the cycleway is a good idea or not?
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April 10, 2009 5:55pm
burt

Bikes come in all shapes and sizes.

http://zombietime.com/world_naked_bike_ride_2007/
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April 10, 2009 6:03pm
labrator

PaulL – I think you’re covering up for what is a very dissapointing effort by Key and English.

Damn you PaulL, covering up that very dissappointing effort by Key and English. I hope you can hide their secret agenda better as greenfly has you in his sights! Pity he miss fired when he was aiming at Clark & Cullen who were going to get us to the top of the OECD but what’s that when we’re comparing economic prosperity to a cycleway!

As an aside, didn’t the job saving 9 day fortnight come from the jobs summit?

It’s genuinely pleasing to know that the biggest problem greenfly has in NZ to complain about at the moment is no progress on the cycleway after 1 month.
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April 10, 2009 6:03pm
greenfly

burt – cycleways – great things, should have them everywhere. One Cycleway to rule them all? Perhaps. It’s a gimmic idea that could be worthwhile, but has already faltered, terminally, I think. I’d much prefer a real programme to make feasible cycleways where they can actually be done and have a truly beneficial effect. The whole ‘centralised’ idea, the BIG idea that Key put foward, is headline grabbing but shallow. Seems to me to go against the ‘conservative way’ of disliking BIG government, this big, centralised, One-ish proposal. Lacks subtlety. Indicative.
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April 10, 2009 6:08pm
greenfly

labrator – the cycleway certainly isn’t the biggest problem, but it’s a holiday today and I’m keeping it light. D’ya wanna know what I reckon is really getting stuffed up by this government? Nah, didn’t think you would 🙂
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April 10, 2009 6:28pm
skyblue

Interesting article, maybe GreenFlea would like to comment.
Nasa are now saying that Aerosols may be causing GW in the 60-90 degree north latitudes. This is due to the Clean Air Act passed to reduce sulphate aerosols (these have a cooling effect). Also, with increased soot (warming effect) the arctic region has warmed more than other areas.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/warming_aerosols.html

The results were published in the April issue of Nature Geoscience.
This makes the role of CO2 much less than the histeria we hear about on a daily basis.

NOTE: NASA are one of the major GW propaganda organisations in the world led by James Hansen. The Greens are decipals of James Hansen. http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/09/13/jury-decides-that-threat-of-global-warming-justifies-breaking-the-law/

Hence, this ties in well with Obama’s Science adviser, Holdren saying putting soot into the atmosphere is an option to stop GW, what a wanker. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/08/AR2009040801807.html

Seems that the Chinese & Indians will save the world after all with the help of NZ COAL, what irony:)
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April 10, 2009 8:52pm
greenfly

skyblue – puzzles me why someone with your nom-de-type would be fascinated by the ‘dirty skies’ solution to climate global warming! I’d love to comment, but I’ve shared too many glasses of wine (organic – Kawerau Estate 2007 Pinot Noir) celebrating my wife’s birthday and mightn’t say anything useful at all. No reira ka haere au ki taku moenga i te taha o taku whaiaipo ataahua.
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April 10, 2009 9:08pm
skyblue

I am facinated with the bull about GW. If this is true then the computer models so widely touted as the truth will be totally wrong again.
Happy B’day to wifey.
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April 10, 2009 9:55pm
clintheine

Why does Toad – Green Party munter, think that we have Nazis in parliament? On the Stranded he did just that:

“”””I thing The Garrotte is an actual nazi. The others are all just populist right wingers who exploit the bigoted and unthinking underbelly of society to their own ends””””

I came back from my Klan meeting only to hear that? 🙂 Is this the kind of informed knowledgable debate we have to expect from the Greens?
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April 11, 2009 12:59am
Redbaiter

Pitiful. They have nothing when anyone breaches the walls of their politically correct fortress. No reason. No argument. Just smears. Its as I’ve always said. All you need to do is call their bluff, and the emperor stands naked before you.

The irony is, the Greens are, in ideological terms, the closest to the Nazi party of any political group today. That’s not a smear. Its an opinion based on reason.

——————————————————-

From the American Building Industry Association magazine 08/03/08-

“The German Nazi party expressed many of the ecological refrains we hear today. Nazis were the vanguard of conservationism—they sought to remedy the increasing alienation of people from the natural world, deforestation, urban sprawl, the destruction of ecosystem balance, the extinction of species and the indiscriminate slaughter of animals. Hitler himself was a sometime vegetarian and an animal lover, and the Nazi government implemented some of the first laws protecting animal rights.

The Nazis also blamed capitalism for destroying the European continent and believed environmental holism was the solution. They investigated sustainable forestry and institutionalized organic farming to advance experimental homeopathic cures and medicines. Nazi bio-engineers were also very concerned about construction maintaining harmony with the natural landscape—the autobahn freeway in Germany was designed by Nazis with the utmost ecological care in mind and presented as a way to bring Germans closer to nature. The Nazis also came up with far reaching land use restrictions and centralized environmental planning for the same purposes, and were very zealous about protecting wetlands and other ecological sensitive areas. Thus green building and smart growth ideas are not something new.

What environmentalists offer today, instead of the racist German National Socialism that defined the Nazi party, is an international environmental socialism, an amalgam of Nazism and communism—an international environmental socialism with a centralized planning scheme.”
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April 11, 2009 1:38am
Glutaemus Maximus

Looks like some Political Commentators in the UK think that the ‘Golden One’ may be acting a bit randomly at the moment.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/gerald_warner/blog/2009/04/10/barack_obama_president_pantywaist__new_surrender_monkey_on_the_block
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April 11, 2009 6:31am
clintheine

Redbaiter – look at the way the Greens treat anybody who has dissenting views. They smear and attack them to make sure nobody listens to them, however reasonable they are. Green socialists are the ones who wish to remove undesirable people and foods and will take violent and non violent action to do so.

If any group should be scrutinised by the media it should be the Green Party. They were more dangerous than what we were told the Exclusive Brethren are, except the Brethren don’t ban as much to their members than the Greens do.
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April 11, 2009 7:47am
greenfly

Two hard-bitten crones crouch, crow-like, fingering their warts and bunions, gumming their bitter discontent over the pretty young thing in the green dress, dancing on the village green. ‘She’s EVIL! ‘, they croak, ‘EVIL !!!’
Laughter spills from the lips of the lithe girl, joyous laughter. 🙂
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April 11, 2009 8:35am
labrator

Shouldn’t you still be in bed with the wife greenfly? If she’s as beautiful as you say, I wouldn’t be getting up at this time to post on any blog site! And yes, would love to hear what you think is really wrong with NZ today. Complaining about cycleways seems trivial.
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April 11, 2009 9:33am
greenfly

labrator – he wahine tino ataahua tonu ia! We are both up early, preparing to holiday. I’ll get back to you 🙂
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April 11, 2009 9:55am
clintheine

Allow me to translate for you, her moustache is bigger than Stephanie and her voice is deeper than Catherine….

Sounds like most Green girls I know! Enjoy your holiday far far away from the real world….sounds like a visit to the Greens caucus room!
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April 11, 2009 11:51am

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