General Debate 9 March 2009

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greenfly

Can we please have cigarettes displayed in school canteens beside the lollies and pies? Some teachers smoke and we are denying them their freedoms by hiding tobacco away.
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March 9, 2009 7:26am
Don the Kiwi

More fly shit on the monitor.

Can we please have a can of Mortein to spray pesky flies.
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March 9, 2009 7:28am
Ryan Sproull

Greenfly,

It’s great that kids can choose to have lollies and pies. Without that choice, they wouldn’t be able to choose NOT to have lollies and pies. You see? It’s all about personal responsibility.

And what kind of parents would raise kids who make dumb choices like that? It’s all about parental responsibility.

It’s about persorental responsibility.
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March 9, 2009 7:38am
Murray

Can we please have less green party political broadcasts on kiwiblog. Or they could at least bloody well pay for the advetising of their hysteria driven propaganda outbursts.

Newsflash greenfly, you don’t matter, you don’t count, you’re not relevant, you’re not popular, you’re not wanted and you don’t have the right to tell everyone else how to live.

New Zealanders do not live at the pleasure of a failed socialist party of fringe loonies. Get you’re own site.
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March 9, 2009 8:05am
chfr

Greenfly, please explain to me why when confronted with choice you have to go into a hysterical over reaction???

Not hiding away cigarettes is NOT pushing smoking, there is no logical way to make that assertion. It is up to us as parents to help our children make decisions not make them for them. Why does the concept choice scare you so much??

I get very annoyed that when confronted with something logical (but against your beliefs) people like you adopt the smug over reaction and hysteria every time. It may make you feel morally superior to the person you are lecturing but in reality you look like a concecending prat.

Rant over.
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March 9, 2009 8:10am
big bruv

greenfly

“Can we please have cigarettes displayed in school canteens beside the lollies and pies?”

Sure, we can place those cigarettes right next to the Cannabis you idiots seem determined to push on our kids.
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March 9, 2009 8:12am
Chicken Little

Don the Kiwi – flyshit cleaner here

Works for all that pesky stuff you see on your screen.
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March 9, 2009 8:23am
Chicken Little

try again here
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March 9, 2009 8:25am
Portia

Karl Denniger’s blog is well worth reading today. He explains what he means by “Bezzle” (short for embezzlement) and why the US economy cannot, will not, recover until the Government is seen to get tough with all the ratbags responsible for the fraud and lies which led to the bubble. Most investors are not stupid, and there will not be enough trust in the market place to enable the economy to recover, until there is faith that all the Bezzle has been tracked down and eradicated,.

I wonder whether we’re still yet to appreciate the extent of our own “Bezzle”. For example, who exactly is underwriting all the massive “buy now and don’t pay for 3 years, or until you’ve lost your job and house and can no longer feed your family” sales that shout at us from our tellies every night?
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March 9, 2009 8:29am
Ross Miller

One has this image of Greenfly sitting there hour after hour, flitting from blog to blog, and getting his/her jollies by making outrageous posts designed to reduce debate to his/her level.

Don’t bite people.
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March 9, 2009 8:46am
Glutaemus Maximus

Funny how Nobama can collect millions from a failed Financial Institution, and nobody Bats ears an eyelid.

The man is a fraud in every way. Mr Auto Cue. No economic common sense, and Portia’s posting is on the money.

Bernard Madoff is under House Arrest. Why?

His wife extracted $15mUS in ‘fees’ and yet never worked in the business.

As said on here before, show me a self made Billionaire and I will show you a crook.

Simplistic, and will only have a 5% variance.

Tax Laws in the Western World do not allow that level of accumalation.
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March 9, 2009 8:48am
jcuknz

How disgusting this maori twit on TV3 slanging off at Sir Roger Douglas as being an undeserving recipiet and down grading the honour. I hope he doesn’t degrade the honour by accepting the title.
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March 9, 2009 8:50am
big bruv

Who was the Maori twit jucknz?
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March 9, 2009 8:51am
Glutaemus Maximus

Can we please have BAT produce proper Skunk Smokes, and display them everywhere.

Weed has no side effects at all. Sure it is a plant like tobacco. But it only improves one’s health. And driving and operating heavy machinery is fully advised.
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March 9, 2009 8:51am
Inventory2

There’s a brilliant Michael Jackson cartoon in the Herald this morning – completely un-PC!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/03/michael-jackson.html
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March 9, 2009 9:05am
greenfly

Ryan Sproull – you will have a view then, on the effects on children of the ‘power wall’ style of advertising seen in dairies where cigarettes are displayed. You think that is ‘fair play’, that children will exercise their free choice, despite being subjected to the effects of that targeted advertising? Level playing field, do you think? You say it’s about parental responsibility – yes, and when the parents aren’t there, as in the dairy situation, an adult decision needs to be taken about what children will be confronted with. Would you be happy to have a representitive from a tobacco company standing in the shop, encouraging your children to ‘try a smoke’. You might build responsible decisionmaking in your household with your children, but would you expose them to that kind of coersion? That’s what I’m saying about advertisement and placement of cigarettes in dairies. Key and the Nats could have protected your children from this, but they didn’t!

chfr – it’s children that are ‘confronted with the choice’ here, not adults. Someone has to use their discretion here and it’s not the children. They can’t be fairly matched against an advertising agency, can they?

Murray – you fled from our last discussion. Can’t you adress the question?

Big Bruv – nah! Nothing to say to your gormless, hackneyed argument.

Ross Miller – I don’t bite people!
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March 9, 2009 9:05am
goodgod

Dr. Ranginui Walker was displaying all the qualities a Knight should not possess. As I read the list in today’s Herald, and the comments of those who would be allowed to choose whether they stepped up to a knighthood, I wondered if what they did really deserved anything to begin with. The attitudes rang out for those who should be forced to retain their obscure cronyist title from Helen the Great. An unbecoming display by most.

Perhaps they could have it changed to Distinguished Companion of New Zealand Haters and Wreckers?
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March 9, 2009 9:10am
big bruv

Greenfly

You mean you cannot come up with a reply that justifies the Green’s hypocritical stance on Tobacco and Cannabis.
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March 9, 2009 9:19am
greenfly

big bruv – the ‘cigarettes in dairies’ issue affects children under the age of 18. The cannabis issue concerns adults over the age of 18. No comparison, despite your clumsy attempts to link them. Key (apparently under Dunne’s influence) has protected the tobacco industry and has rejected an opportunity to keep our children safe from harm. I bring this issue up here, not because it is a Green one, but because it was a National Party issue, badly handled by Key and buried by the National Party minders and spinners.
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March 9, 2009 9:35am
dime

Greenfly – kids can walk into a dairy and choose away! look at the smokes! go for it!. slight problem.. they cant buy em!

under your stupid logic – alcohol should be sold in schools too, what if the teachers get thirsty?

id love to see the stats on how many pies are consumed!

i hope its thousands every day!!!

remember being a kid, youve been rained on on the way to school.. its cold.. youve got a shitty teacher.. but at lunchtime you get to eat a glorious pie 🙂 and as a bonus.. you upset the green party who want to control your young life!
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March 9, 2009 9:36am
big bruv

There is every comparison Greenfly, the Greens advertise the “merits” of Cannabis to kids much younger than 18, indeed one of the reasons you people want the voting age lowered to 16 is to tap into the youth drug demographic.

The hypocrisy is blinding yet you seem to conveniently overlook it.
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March 9, 2009 9:41am
greenfly

dime said: ‘Greenfly – kids can walk into a dairy and choose away! look at the smokes! go for it!. slight problem.. they cant buy em!”
They can’t buy them, Dime? They can’t buy alcohol either, so why not advertise as heavily as you like, on children’s time television. Get them well and truely accustomed to the names, brands, association with good times and sport – flood them with alcohol advertisements, it’s ok because ‘they can’t buy them’ – come on Dime, you can see it, can’t you??
Perhaps Key and Dunne are looking at that issue right now.
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March 9, 2009 9:45am
Brian Smaller

Greenfly – you argument is pathetic. Following you rlogic, why not beam advertising of cigs and alcohol into pregnant women’s stomachs so the feotus’ get indoctrinated with name brands. Fuck off you creep.
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March 9, 2009 9:50am
Murray

What question? What discussion? Just another arsehole socialist bitching that they can’t control everyone and everything.
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March 9, 2009 9:58am
dime

Greenfly – so you’re comparing pies in schools, to smokes on shelves, to direct tv marketing of alcohol to kids?

Just trying to follow your logic.

I love how the greeny wont comment on dope lol
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March 9, 2009 10:02am
greenfly

No Brian, I was being facetious. My argument is that the disply of cigarettes in dairies influences children in a way that is damaging to them – this display and advertising works that’s why it’s done. It is unfair on children. Adults who care for children should shield them from some things. Tobacco use is one of those things. Key (and Dunne) should have moved to protect our children, not the tobacco companies.
Murray – feeling brave enough now to answer a question? Good. Here it is. Should Key (Dunne) act for the health of children or the rights of the tobacco companies?
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March 9, 2009 10:08am
expat

greenfly, out of interest, why do you bother? your habitat is the substandard, run along.
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March 9, 2009 10:09am
greenfly

No Dime – see Murray’s question. You might as well have a shot at answering it. I expect Murray to run or at best, dodge and weave.
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March 9, 2009 10:10am
getstaffed

Should Key (Dunne) act for the health of children or the rights of the tobacco companies?

Neither and both. Key should act for the rights of children, parents, shop owners and product companies to be free from the interference of socialist control freaks like the Greens.
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March 9, 2009 10:15am
greenfly

getstaffed – Key should allow open slather by the advertising/tobacco companies in shops? How about advertising booze in toy shops (establishing the future market – or are you to naive to know that this is commonplace in the industry?). Ok with you?
expat – I’m looking for answers to important questions from people with a different perspective. Mostly I get shallow abuse but occasionally someone engages and has a shot. Occasionally.
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March 9, 2009 10:20am
TimG_Oz

Hmm – what constitutes trolling?

7 posts out of 30 here are by greenfly, never adding to the debate (just saying the same thing over and over), and not responding to other’s questions seems like a deliberate attempt to hijack this blog entry.
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March 9, 2009 10:24am
greenfly

TimG_Oz – answer the question reasonably and I’ll leave you in peace. That’s reasonable enough, don’t you think?
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March 9, 2009 10:28am
big bruv

Hopefully General Motors will announce Bankruptcy in the next few days, apparently auditors have said it is impossible for GM to survive without doing so.

No amount of federal assistance is going to keep GM afloat unless they are forced through bankruptcy to renegotiate with the predatory unions and the unfortunate suppliers.

Once GM do declare bankruptcy it will only be a matter of time before Chrysler and Ford follow as they will simply not be able to compete with the lowers costs renegotiated by GM, when that does happen the blame can and should be heaped on the United Auto Workers union.
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March 9, 2009 10:33am
Grizz

So Greenfly, do you overlook all the pictures of cancerous lungs and impotent penises on the cigarette packets as well. If I was a kid and got to see all the pictures of diseased body parts displayed on cigarette packets I would not buy them. Do you regret buying cigarettes because you cannot stop coughing and have difficulty swinging your manhood when the opportunity arises.
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March 9, 2009 10:35am
sbk

“influences children in a way that is damaging to them”…so does the Greens policy of decriminalisation(i use this word reluctantly)but then again i dont expect any Greenie to see the logic in this.
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March 9, 2009 10:36am
getstaffed

Blood on the boardroom table at ACC
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March 9, 2009 10:44am
dime

Bruv – that is good news!

Sad eh? the only way to beat the Unions is to run out of money!
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March 9, 2009 10:48am
dime

Dime thinking like a unionist:

Scenario A) “Hey! the company made record profit this year! gimme gimme gimme”

Scenario B) “Fuck you, I dont care that the company has suffered record losses, im not taking a pay cut! i’ll strike and send you under!”
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March 9, 2009 10:50am
Brian Smaller

No Brian, I was being facetious. My argument is that the disply of cigarettes in dairies influences children in a way that is damaging to them – this display and advertising works that’s why it’s done. It is unfair on children.

You are a moron. 75% of people who are adults have seem those same walls of cigs in dairies all their lives and ARE NOT smokers. They made a choice. Most probably when they were offered and tried their first cigarette as a kid and rejected smoking. Hide them away and it will be more rebellious for kids to smoke and more will do it for that reason alone. I wasn’t being facetious. I really think you are a dick and more than a little creepy.
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March 9, 2009 10:50am
Rakaia George

In greenfly’s world it appears that a few racks of fags behind the counter are no different than product placement on The Wiggles…Murray Wiggle with a tab under his guitar string a la Eddie Van Halen, I can see it now…
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March 9, 2009 10:51am
Murray

In spite of having it laid out entirely for him the obnoxious greenfly still thinks it has the right to tell other people or call them names. In my case its calls me a coward for not answering its questions.. lets just check what I’m not answering ehre shall we.

“Can we please have cigarettes displayed in school canteens beside the lollies and pies? Some teachers smoke and we are denying them their freedoms by hiding tobacco away.”

There is no question here to answer, no argument presented. On a daily basis I deal with questions arguments and disscussion in which i need to analyse the content for its value. Most of the those taking part are under 20 and some of their offerings are less than stellar. However not one would ever consider offering up what greenfly has and expect anything other derision and scorn because it has no value. Several of the more eager would quickly identify it as a strawman emotively driven “tactic” with no discussion valuse whatsoever.

Greenfly you get a D- you are a politcaly motivated hack. you efforts here are inept hamfisted and not worthy of serious consideration. As to my personal valour, I defer to people whjose opinions I respect and are of value to me. I don’t in any way seek or desire your personal approval, rahter I take pride in your abuse.

You are a disgusting repugnant little specimen of the anti-democratic attitudes of the socialist end of the spectrum and I revel in your demise from the politcal scene.
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March 9, 2009 10:53am
Glutaemus Maximus

Greenfly, your proposals are beyond reasonable logic.

Understand that the commies want to control our lives.

Just get back to your vege patch, and do the job you are meant to do.

Aphids are asexual aren’t they?

You are boring, small minded and trite. Now run along little chappie. The Standard is your protected area.

Don’t you just love the fact that shower pressures didn’t get regulated. That, the anti-smacking legislation has done nothing to protect the weak and vulnerable from horrific abuse.

And also that your beloved game plan.
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March 9, 2009 11:02am
Ryan Sproull

That, the anti-smacking legislation has done nothing to protect the weak and vulnerable from horrific abuse.

It wasn’t supposed to. It was suppose to ensure that perpetrators didn’t have a tricksy “get out of jail free” card for their lawyers to play.
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March 9, 2009 11:05am
Murray

Which they never did. I draw your attention to the word “resonable”. And in fact you are lying as t+he bill was loudly promoted as a child saver.
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March 9, 2009 11:17am
s.russell

“Newsflash greenfly, you don’t matter, you don’t count, you’re not relevant, you’re not popular, you’re not wanted and you don’t have the right to tell everyone else how to live.”

Greenfly: Do not listen to the demented ravings of this lunatic. We need your presence here on Kiwiblog to have something to attack!
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March 9, 2009 11:23am
getstaffed

It wasn’t supposed to. It was suppose to ensure that perpetrators didn’t have a tricksy “get out of jail free” card for their lawyers to play.

Section 59 was, if I correctly recall, successsfully used less than 5 times in the last decade. So having draconian law that criminialises good parents in pursuit of 5 additional convictions is totalitarian IMO. In any case the anti-smacking law was nothing to do with the safety of children, and everything to do with the socialists getting another tick on their ideology bingo card.
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March 9, 2009 11:36am
big bruv

I am surprised nobody has picked up the other good news story of last week.

It seems that the Nat’s are going to cut our aid to the pacific nations as these nations now see it as a handout rather than a hand up.
This is to be applauded, long may it continue, it is simply not our problem nor our obligation to fund these tin pot island nations.
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March 9, 2009 11:51am
stephen

You seem to be saying that those countries don’t want any money. It was McCully who used the ‘hand out’ phrase. National actually said they’re going to focus more aid on the Pacific at the cost of other regions.
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March 9, 2009 11:55am
greenfly

Sorry Murray (you’re a teacher ? , you got confused by so many words. I did ask a question and I’ll write it in bold script so you can find it,

Should Key (Dunne) act for the health of children or the rights of the tobacco companies?
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March 9, 2009 12:07pm
getstaffed

greenfly – Piss off with your strawman frivolity. You are a loathsome, low budget troll parading an IQ that is slightly below room temperature.
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March 9, 2009 12:20pm
Murray

There was no confusion and I’m not a teacher this week. Subsequent production of questions is not a fuctioning argument when you claim i haven’t addressed a previous, non-existing, argument. Even if you bold it, oooo whos a clever boy then.

Your time is up. Piss off.
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March 9, 2009 12:29pm
greenfly

Ok getstaffed, I’m feeling unloved enough to leave. Guess Crusher Collins and I are in the same boat – failures both!
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March 9, 2009 12:48pm
gd

1. Honours system

Must be elected by a Council of Citizens drawn up at random from the electoral list. All pollies civil servants excluded fro the Council as having a conflict of interest.

2. Portia and other.s Agree with you I have been posting here and elsewhere that unless we get the crooks into Court and sort them out and send a message to the would be crooks the current situation will only get worse .until the citizens have confidence in the people they entrust their money to there will be on savings no investment.

3. big bruv. You are right about GM Ford Chrysler. They have been suffering death by a thousand cuts starting in the early 1980s when the Japs starting building plants in the US. It was always just a matter of time until they failed. IMHO and that of a number of senior auto execs there will be 5 or 6 global manufacturers left when the current shake out ends in around 2011/12.
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March 9, 2009 1:52pm
big bruv

gd

“IMHO and that of a number of senior auto execs there will be 5 or 6 global manufacturers left when the current shake out ends in around 2011/12.”

I hope you are not talking about NZ “senior auto execs” mate as most of them are blithering idiots, there are one or two exceptions (mostly recently retired) but they are few and far between.

6 Global manufactures might be a bit pessimistic, however there will be a major shift in the power base, GM can kiss their almost life long number one spot goodbye, for the next ten to fifteen years the battle for number one will be between Toyota and VAG, most of the Japanese manufactures will survive and I see no reason why the growing Korean auto industry will not make it through either.

What will come out of this is the lesson that vehicle manufactures must stick to their core business, it is simply ridiculous for manufactures to branch out into the financial market.
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March 9, 2009 2:19pm
Portia

unless we get the crooks into Court and sort them out and send a message to the would be crooks the current situation will only get worse .until the citizens have confidence in the people they entrust their money to there will be on savings no investment.

I agree, GD. However, here’s a timely reminder about how difficult it’s going to be to flush out the NZ Bezzle:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2134493/Police-struggle-to-handle-fraud

And, unless the current laws against fraud and white collar crime are proved to be capable of enforcement, there will be pressure (here and overseas) for governments to add yet more strangulating layers of complex regulation.
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March 9, 2009 3:43pm
Don the Kiwi

Chicken Little
Post 8.25 am.

The link is brilliant. Love it. 😆
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March 9, 2009 5:14pm
getstaffed

What is it with TV3 and Phil Goff?!?

I really do believe they might have ‘turned’.

They get a camera in the face of ‘The Lame One’ at every opportunity.

And he doesn’t disappoint. Out come the tired old lines about the selection of paper clip suppliers to parliament being politically motivated, national going to privatise anything and everything etc etc. It’s a bit low-fi, even for the intellect of the average socialist.

Or perhaps TV3 are just too scared to have Labour shadow ministers in the lense… lest they look even more stupid?!?
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March 9, 2009 6:42pm
burt

Well grenfly has had his day in the sun here today. Wow… excellent party political broadcast.

Speaking of pies – I saw Trevor Mallard on the Karapoti classic again this year. It looks like he has lost some weight – opposition is clearly good for him. Great to see his Labour party van legally having no authorisation statement this year.
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March 9, 2009 7:07pm
calendar girl

Greenfly: A question for you.

Can you please tell me your justification for alleging that Peter Dunne is protecting tobacco companies, and influencing the PM to do the same (see your comment at 10.08am)? Sounds libellous unless true, so facts, links, quotations, etc, please, not simply uncorroborated smears.
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March 9, 2009 7:53pm
getstaffed

calendar girl – noooooooooo. please ….
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March 9, 2009 8:04pm
Steve

Amazing that the Blowfly gets so many comments. This Blowfly should be on TV. Airtime haha.
NZ’s funniest or NZ’s stupidest.
Strange thing is stupid people do not know they are stupid, they just keep on being stupid.
50 million blowflies can’t be wrong (song) but they are still stupid, they just follow the other blowflies.
Nice to know that they fly amongst us spreading shit wherever they land.
They come back again and again, it will be a while until they are exterminated.
Enjoy the fun while you can “blowfly”
Raid and Mortein are hunting.
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March 9, 2009 9:19pm
philu

fond of the metaphor there..eh steve..?

(don’t wear it out..eh..?..)

(bt.w..that’s pretty funny picking the blog-name ‘steve’..eh..?

..is there a whiff of irony in that..?

..was ‘rock’ already taken..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

‘steve rock’ would ‘work’..eh..?
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March 9, 2009 9:24pm
billyborker

big bruv (2935) Vote: 1 0 Says:

March 9th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

What will come out of this is the lesson that vehicle manufactures must stick to their core business, it is simply ridiculous for manufactures to branch out into the financial market.

Just as the business of movies is to sell popcorn, the business of autos is to sell finance. It was natural for car companies to want a hand in the most profitable aspect of their busisness – finance.

But you never really have had a clue, have you?
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March 9, 2009 9:26pm
burt

philu

How is your vaporiser ?
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March 9, 2009 9:37pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Bork Bork.

You haven’t got a clue either. Whilst Gmac and Ford Motor Credit certainly reported better profits than the manufacturing divisions.

3 things are relevant.

1) The accounting, default rate were covered up under a veneer of gloss

2) The profit split always depended on where the line was drawn between the 2 distinct operations. In particular the subvented rate for Inventory Funding.

3) The business model was flawed as they borrowed short and wrote long tail business.

Saab have elected for ‘reconstruction’, GM Europe will be under by the weekend? GM Australasia by the month end?

They are fucked. Only loads of Government assistance will help them limp on.

National Governments aren’t stupid, as they know any bulk grant, or loan will just be repatriated to the STATES, and then the inevitable will happen anyway.

So the Kiwi Dream of the Commodore and Boat, and Bach is about to become a 1/3 compromised.

Ford are not far behind!!
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March 9, 2009 10:44pm

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