General Debate 4 March 2009

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infused

New advert on the radio today about the ‘hire and fire’ bill.. God I hate unions now.

Also, after watching target last night, clearly it’s not the drinking age that is the problem for underage drinking, but the places that sell it. 10yr olds and all. Was pretty disgusting.
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March 4, 2009 8:05am
bobux

My vote for blog posting of the week goes to The Tailor of Panama, for a comment on the staggeringly trivial nature of the NZ ‘professional’ media. I wanted to write the same thing, but he has already said it much more eloquently.

http://barneymcgrew.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/dumb-stuff/

Incidentally, the Tailor gives relatively non-partisan coverage of foreign affairs issues, and despite the limited number of comments on postings, is a must-read for anyone in with an interest in that area. (The title is a reference to the MFAT building in Panama St, Wellington.)
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March 4, 2009 8:15am
XChequer

I’m still trying to get to grips with the new Stuff site. Nice layout.
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March 4, 2009 8:32am
XChequer

As a proud Cantabrian, have got to say that I am left speechless by the new “initiative” to play Barry Manilow to pacify the natives!

Just take a back step, CCC and look at what you are doing. Laughable!.
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March 4, 2009 8:36am
WebWrat

Can anyone tell me how to do the text rollover thing in blog postings (as in ‘Read More’ in Crusader Rabbitt).

It is so you can hide the bulk of a large post on the main page.

I guess if you know how to do it, you will know the ‘why’! LOL
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March 4, 2009 9:00am
dime

PB went well with Hoskings this morning. Came across as honest and actually offered an opinion. I like when a MP is strong enough to actually say NO when asked a question.

Annette King (The Penguin) also comes across well. A huge imrovement from Shane Jones.

I hope National continue down the “we think people can choose for themselves” path when referring to just about anything! “people can choose how they spend there tax cuts” etc etc

Just need to keep hammering that point for the next 9 years! change the kiwi psyche! no more of the government knows best crap!
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March 4, 2009 9:13am
dad4justice

XChequer; what kind of bad acid is bob each way and the CCC on? What wheelie bin does bob go in? Yellow, green or red.
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March 4, 2009 9:18am
WebWrat

# dad4justice (4917) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
March 4th, 2009 at 9:18 am

What kind of bad acid is bob each way and the CCC on?

………….

What’s that about Dad?
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March 4, 2009 9:21am
dad4justice

Webwrat- If the police, CCC and Central City business owners think playing a screeching Barry Manilow to help stop youth anti social behaviour then I suggest they are on bad acid. It will only make the out of control youth more unruly. How long before a nutter takes a pop shot at a speaker? Doh clueless bob. Do boyracers like bob or barry. I blame Labour MP’s for our crisis city.
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March 4, 2009 9:28am
WebWrat

Oh yeah. Heard that on the radio yesterday …. decided thugs will be thugs with or without Barry.

Once again the majority has to suffer because of the minority!!
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March 4, 2009 9:34am
dad4justice

Yes webwrat, society is sad and the authorities & government is lost for solutions.
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March 4, 2009 9:36am
WebWrat

Sorry …. didn’t see wot XChequer said.

Doh!!
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March 4, 2009 9:36am
bearhunter

I heard someone talking about Phil Goff on the radio yesterday and with the traditional Kiwi mangling of the vowels it managed to sound very much like a Yorkshire man telling someone to “Fook Off”. Is he the first political leader in NZ to sound like an insult? Just a thought.
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March 4, 2009 10:00am
MyNameIsJack

I see Barrak Obama is trying to drag USA into 20th century.

The Obama administration’s move to rescind broad new job protections for health workers who refuse to provide care they find objectionable triggered an immediate political storm yesterday, underscoring the difficulties the president faces in his effort to find common ground on anything related to the explosive issue of abortion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701104.html?hpid=topnews

if he gets a second term, he may even be able to drag them into the 21st.

meanwhile, Ameriac provides yet another reason why religion makes people insane.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_police_lawsuit.html
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March 4, 2009 10:19am
Jack5

A possible bone for debate…

Today’s Christchurch Press has an article by a Canterbury University Maori studies lecturer, Rawiri Taonui, in which he supports the “Wh” spelling of Wanganui. The subject is fine, however …

The article demonstrates the low level of debate, lucidity, and general scholarship of many current NZ academics, such as Taonui, compared with Maori scholars of the past such as Sir Peter Buck (Te Rangi Hiroa). Taonui, who the Press accords the honorific “Dr” in his byline unlike most similarly qualified contributors, cites the ILO and the Universal Declaration of Rights in his diatribe and calls common white pronunciation of Wanganui “uncultured and inferior”.

Taonui’s stage 3 courses include “Maori in Media, Film, Documentary and Sports” and his postgraduate topics include “Indigenous People, Human Rights and Self-determination.” Canterbury Maori studies look to be somewhat an alternative to overseas study in Libya or Cuba. Taonui shouts rather than argues in his writing. He’s a soapboxer, and not an entertaining one.

Compare Taonui’s stuff with Buck’s great work in anthropology and you will realise New Zealand academy has slipped in standards.

Canterbury University’s elevation of kapihaka and Maori activism to high academic levels parallels the university’s pseudo academic courses in feminism. It parallels what has happened in its English department. This has downgraded study of literature to make room for creative writing courses. This may be because the once tiny journalism section, whose graduates have helped shift the mainstream media to the left, seems to have taken over the department. How ironic that when the university is promoting political activism (as in its Maori department) and Maori language it is downgrading its study of English.

This university, where Rutherford was an undergraduate, now needs a Hercules-scale cleaning of its intellectual stable if its still valuable parts, like engineering and law, are to be saved the fates of its arts courses (like English).

Perhaps other bloggers have knowledge of what’s going on in our other universities, such as the Auckland University of Technology where, if NewZeal blog is to believed, Trotskyists are active in at least one department.
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March 4, 2009 10:19am
philu

didyasee how the oecd recommendations to their 30 members ..are the direct opposite of what key is doing/planning..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/comment-whoarglobal-recession-will-be-worse-than-forecast-and-heymr-keythe-oecd-is-also-recommendingurging-their-30-membersto-support-their-economies-with-increased-spending-on-infrastructure-and-by-l/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 4, 2009 10:39am
Right of way is Way of Right

You have got to like this as a press release. When those in receipt of benefits from the state are held to a reasonable standard of behaviour in order to maintain eligiblity for the benefits in question, it sends a strong signal to those who would consider life at the states teat to be a soft option.

Now how about unemplyment benefits next!

Antisocial tenants won’t be tolerated

by New Zealand Government – 04 Mar 2009 08:20

Housing Minister Phil Heatley says Housing New Zealand Corporation has his full support following news it has taken unprecedented action against antisocial tenants by issuing a swag of 90 day notices against Mongrel Mob members and their associates.

The Residential Tenancies Act provides landlords with the power to give tenants a notice asking them to leave after 90 days. There is no requirement under the law to give a reason for this action.

“Peaceful and respectful behaviour is expected of state house tenants, as it is of all New Zealanders. The vast majority of tenants are wonderful to work with. However, those few who blatantly disregard their tenancy agreement risk losing the opportunity of a state home,” Mr Heatley said.

He acknowledged that the presumption has been that because Housing New Zealand houses New Zealand’s most vulnerable families its tenancy actions should be tested in the Tenancy Tribunal.

“That will continue to be the case for the vast majority of tenancy issues the corporation deals with. They will still go through the Tenancy Tribunal,” Mr Heatley said.

“However, Housing New Zealand believes there are a small number of serious cases where the community deserves a swift and definitive outcome about what will happen to a tenancy, and I agree with them.”

“We can’t expect witnesses to give testimony in front of people they have been severely intimidated by, and often live next door to.”

Mr Heatley endorsed Housing New Zealand’s stand that it will in future act against tenants involved in serious anti-social behaviour.

“Time is up for those tenants who have cynically gamed the system by terrorising communities knowing their victims would never complain, or if they did complain they would never give evidence.”

The Minister confirmed he is talking to Housing New Zealand about options for sharpening the consequences of terminating a tenancy, such as introducing mandatory stand-down periods before tenants can re-apply for state housing, and probation periods for former offenders who resume state tenancies following a stand-down.

“If such people do not appreciate the opportunity of living in a state home there are plenty of needy families on the waiting list who do,” Mr Heatley said.
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March 4, 2009 10:42am
lofty

I am still waiting with anticipation for Mallards explanation of his ridiculous assertion, telling prospective employees not to seek work with an under 20 staff employer, because they will just get the boot on day 90.

Cmon mallard, we know you are there, pop your head up, you are the one who willingly entered this good news 60%+ arena, take part and explain.

P.S. you are looking tired and really jaded mallard, stress of having to tip over your leader taking it’s toll?

Then again it might explain your silly comments some what.
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March 4, 2009 10:44am
grumpyoldhori

Limbaugh for president.
Now that Limbaugh is head of the Republican party I wonder if we will see a Limbaugh/Palin ticket, otherwise known as the draft dodging, drug addicted , moose hunting ticket.
Jeez that bloke Rahm ? is an evil bastard, he and Limbaugh want the same thing, for Limbaugh to be the star of the Republican party.

I would not want to be in a knife fight with that bugger Rahm ?, he would stick you in the back then wander off saying, knife what knife.
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March 4, 2009 10:51am
PhilBest

infused (344) Vote: 10 0 Says:

March 4th, 2009 at 8:05 am
“New advert on the radio today about the ‘hire and fire’ bill.. God I hate unions now….”

Remember last time the bastards brought the country to its knees and ended up completely losing the public? Remember the full page advertisements taken out by businesses giving us the facts? Remember the “Kiwis Care” march?

Time for a re-run. Smash the bastards lies.
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March 4, 2009 11:38am
PhilBest

Hey, playing Barry Manilow has proven effective in parts of the world already, in dispersing trouble-making youths hanging around. The most effective, and this has been scientifically studied, is the orchestral and operatic music of Richard Wagner and Frederick Delius. I say bring it on.
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March 4, 2009 11:42am
PhilBest

Yes, philu, we know, we know, the whole world has gone crazy on Keynes…..except for the odd little Gaulish village still holding out against the invaders………..

Here is the PM of Poland, Donald Tusk, in an interview with “Der Spiegel”:

SPIEGEL: “The global economic crisis has also hit Eastern Europe. Your government has not rolled out any bailout packages worth billions. What are you relying on?”

Tusk: “The main reason for the global crisis is that people have been living on credit. So the way out cannot be that countries go even deeper into debt. In Poland we are also considering methods of state intervention. But I see no purpose in prolonging the credit madness for another two years. Some European politicians live in the belief that this could allow them to maintain prosperity for another few months.”

SPIEGEL: “And what is the Polish approach?”

Tusk: “We lived in a permanent crisis under communism for decades. We have overcome this by working very hard for 20 years. And we deeply believe that prosperity comes from work, fair competition, respecting private property, perseverance and solidarity. That is why we would like to emerge from this crisis as a country that remains true to democratic capitalism.”

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,610726,00.html

The leadership of the Czech Republic is also talking this way.

We shall see what happens in practice. We need these contrarian examples. My own feeling is that NZ should be among them.
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March 4, 2009 11:50am
philu

i thought barry manilow/barbara streisland were already the long-time/de-facto/favoured soundtracks for natty party/act ‘do’s’..?

..so they are already proven as calmers of gatherings/clusterings of over-excited malcontents..

eh..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 4, 2009 11:52am
PhilBest

Here is Vaclav Klaus, the President of the Czech Republic, in a speech in Paris a few days ago:

“……my feeling is that the rationality and the economic science have been suppressed or forgotten. The very unpleasant, day by day deeper economic crisis should be accepted as a standard economic phenomenon, as an unavoidable consequence and hence a “just” price we have to pay for the long-term playing with the market by the politicians. Their attempts to blame the market, instead of themselves, are unacceptable and should be resolutely rejected. Their activities, aiming at “reforming” the economic system, are all very doubtful and I as said in Davos: I am getting more afraid of these reforms than of the crisis itself.

Looking for ways out, we should – to use an analogy – strictly differentiate between fighting the fire and drafting fire protection legislation. We have to concentrate on the first task now; the second one can be done gradually, without haste and panic. A large increase in the scope of financial regulation, as is being proposed these days, will only prolong the recession.

Aggregate demand needs strengthening. One traditional way to do this is to increase government spending, mostly on public infrastructure projects, on condition these are available. It would be much more helpful, however, to initiate a radical reduction of all kinds of restrictions on private initiatives introduced in the last half a century during the era of the brave new world of the “social and ecological market economy”. The best thing to do right now would be to temporarily weaken, if not permanently repeal, various labour, environmental, social, health and other “standards”, because they block human activity more than anything else.

In the moment of the fall of communism, almost 20 years ago, I did not expect to experience such a degree of government intervention into my own life as I face now. I am, therefore, convinced that fighting for freedom and free markets remains the task of the day……”

http://www.klaus.cz/klaus2/asp/clanek.asp?id=pwMGFzzPU1MJ
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March 4, 2009 11:54am
Ratbiter

Ratbiter thinks this is pretty f*cking cool!!!

Spray your tag on West Bank wall

Reuters
Last updated 11:36 02/03/2009

It could turn out to be the world’s longest graffiti space – the massive concrete barrier separating Israel from the Palestinians.

Over the Internet, a group of Palestinian graffiti artists is offering to spray-paint your personal message on Israel’s towering security wall in the occupied West Bank.

It costs 30 euros (NZ$75) per message and they can be as solemn or wacky as you want. Everything goes, except for obscene, offensive or extremist hate speech. Clients get three digital pictures of the finished product.

The 8-metre high barrier of massive concrete slabs is part of a 620-km fence Israel says is intended to keep suicide bombers out, and which can be dismantled at some point in the future when peace reigns.

But with its slit-eyed watchtowers and burgeoning Palestinian protest graffiti, it is already reminiscent of the hated Berlin Wall, which divided the German capital for 28 years before it was torn down 10 years ago.

The taggers at http://www.sendamessage.nl are members of the Palestinian Peace and Freedom Youth Forum, which set up the scheme in collaboration with a Dutch Christian organisation.

“It is a new way to speak with the people, that we the Palestinians exist,” says graffiti artist Yusef Njm.

“We are not only throwing stones and clashing. We are alive. We think in a new way to tell them that we are alive.”

Organisers stress that revenue does not go to buy weapons for the Palestinians. It is intended to support grassroots social and cultural projects in the West Bank.
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March 4, 2009 11:56am
llew

except for the odd little Gaulish village still holding out against the invaders………..

heh, nice. The gall of those Gauls.
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March 4, 2009 11:58am
PhilBest

It is an interesting subject, philu. It is not that that music “calms” the malcontents, it drives them away, they literally cannot stand to be within earshot of it.

I remember the columnist Joe Bennett suggesting that the overnite cells at the cop shop should have this music playing at full blast, hopefully to forcibly reform the people who were in there.

I certainly believe that serious character flaws are manifested in attachment to music like Death Metal and gangster rap and a revulsion for anything beautiful. Don’t get me wrong, I have a great respect for the angry distortion guitar playing of a John McLaughlan and the rapping of a Ronny Jordan. You don’t have to use these musical tools in soul destroying ways.
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March 4, 2009 12:01pm
PhilBest

Theodore Dalrymple and “Spengler” at Asia Times online, have both written extremely interesting essays on the phenomenon so prevalent in our day, of the rejection of beauty in art and music and even of the beauty of nature itself (this last in contradiction to fashionable environmentalism; most teens, in spite of voting Green, wouldn’t be seen dead going on a bush walk). They both suggest that to some extent, anything of beauty is like an uncomfortable exposure to many people, of the ugliness or mediocrity of those people’s life and fashion choices.
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March 4, 2009 12:06pm
PhilBest

Ratbiter:

“…..The taggers at http://www.sendamessage.nl are members of the Palestinian Peace and Freedom Youth Forum, which set up the scheme in collaboration with a Dutch Christian organisation….”

I hope the Dutch Christian organisation hopes to divert the Palestinians from their dedication to persecuting and murdering and driving out the Christian minorities in their midst.

Before you hit me with negative karma, just spare a thought for where that puts you morally, concerning the fate of these powerless and innocent people.
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March 4, 2009 12:11pm
philu

“..It is an interesting subject, philu. It is not that that music “calms” the malcontents, it drives them away, they literally cannot stand to be within earshot of it..”

precisely..phil-the-inferior..!

..which makes it all the stranger..how nattys/actites..oh..!..and drag queens..don’t forget the drag queens..!

..how they all love these excuses for music..

..oh..!..hang on..!..

..not really that ‘strange’..when you look at the/those natty/actite fans..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 4, 2009 12:12pm
Ratbiter

“Before you hit me with negative karma, just spare a thought for where that puts you morally, concerning the fate of these powerless and innocent people.”

Ratbiter does not like making ethnic generalisations, so does not subscribe to the school of thought that says “ALL Palestinians are persecuting christians”, or “All Palestinians are firing rockets at Israel” or indeed “ALL Palestinians are X” (for all X).

Demonstrate please that THOSE Palestinian Graffiti artists are persecuting christians, if you expect me to reassess my moral ground.
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March 4, 2009 12:23pm
PhilBest

I stand corrected, Ratbiter. I hope the Dutch Christian organisation wishes to divert the Palestinians from the militant Islamist ideology that results in the persecuting and murdering and driving out of the Christian minorities in their midst.

There are not a few lefty “Christian” organisations who have literally thrown the Palestinian Christian minorities to the wolves, so anxious are they to go along with an agenda that places all blame for everything possible, on Israel.

Do you want links to articles on this?
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March 4, 2009 1:03pm
side show bob

Philbest, that guy Tusk sounds like he is blessed with more then half a brain, such a pity other world leaders would see his words as blasphemy.
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March 4, 2009 1:18pm
PhilBest

PhilU: “…….excuses for music……”

While Barry Manilow’s popular 1970’s classics are not my preferred listening, I think they represent a pinnacle of that kind of style, lush, mellifluous easy listening; it has all been downhill from there. I find it laughable that Barry Manilow gets singled out for such criticism when the music world since has continuously descended to wallowing in mediocrity and childishness.

Barry himself, gets my respect for having walked away from that genre at the peak of his fame. It is not because his music is passe that he has never done a comeback tour, if he did you can bet it would be a raging commercial success. He has spent the last 3 decades singing jazz with various combos, including some cutting edge musicians. No fame, but lots and lots of integrity.

The gangsta rap and death metal I referred to before, are part of musical mediocrity and childishness. It is the musical equivalent of children throwing temper tantrums because they lack the vocabulary and reason and knowledge to make a mature argument. A mature anarchism, expressed in music, is found in Stravinsky and Schoenberg and their like. Listen to “A Survivor From Warsaw” by Schoenberg. How could a bunch of yobbos with electric guitars and distortion amps and a knowledge of no more than 3 chords which they use for every composition they make, so that they all sound the same; express human anguish like that does?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVhW5Rz9HA0&feature=related
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March 4, 2009 1:31pm
thedavincimode

Coventry, are you receiving? Please dust off Morse/Semaphore books and commence translation. It seems Philu has woken up.

Good grief! What on earth was I thinking!! Sorry, on second thoughts, don’t bother. Sorry to trouble you.

hey Phil, what happened to the rebranding exercise? Seems a shame to can it after all the work that went into it. The lone thingy in the whatsit or whatever it was???

thedavincimode … aka … thedavincimode
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March 4, 2009 1:48pm
wreck1080

Howard Broad commenting on the senior cop who refused a breath test…

He stressed any citizen would be treated the same as Mr Thomas and there was no double standard.

I say rubbish. Many people were ringing talk back yesterday with stories where the cop knocked at the door and they had to give the breath test. If not, they were charged with failing to provide a breath test.

There are the ‘official’ stance, and the ‘unofficial’. Unofficially, cops do many things outside the law. I guess you get bad cops which are a minority hopefully.
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March 4, 2009 4:57pm
Dobbie

I liked the pragmatism of the ‘no regional fuel tax’ announcement. Despite RNZ’s ‘the rest of the country to pay for Auckland’s roads” byline, it seems a much more practical approach.

Saying that I’m worried by what I perceive to be a ‘more roads’ mentality. I was (un) lucky enough to work with LTNZ for a number of years and was struck by the ‘roading’ mentality. Their approach to everything was more roads, more roads. Emmissions problem? Simple – build more roads to get traffic flowing more freely. Gridlock in Wellington? Build more roads. Public Transport was for poor people. Cycling was for kamikazes. And walking was for Ian Botham. Those guys are really stuck in the ’60’s. Isn’t the international experience clear enough? Build more roads, get more cars. Anybody been on the London Ring Road recently? Anyway I hope the Minister gets his head round that. Build more roads, get more cars. Divert people on to good public transport systems and the roads free up. It’s pretty simple isn’t it? Maybe I’m missing something? Can anybody enlighten me?
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March 17, 2009 10:07am

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