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March 29, 2009 7:55am by David Farrar

General Debate 29 March 2009

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General Debate

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dutchie down south

happy to see that the police has charged somebody over yesterday’s Otara stabbing.
They seems to be on the ball..good on them..
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March 29, 2009 8:38am
dad4justice

Talking about being on the ball tulip, earth hour worked well for the crusaders last night as they downed the stormers under full lights.
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March 29, 2009 8:45am
dutchie down south

yep you are right D4J, although we are in Highlanders country here !!
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March 29, 2009 8:48am
dad4justice

The highlanders were sensational.
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March 29, 2009 8:51am
dutchie down south

still pretty quite here on a sunday morning….
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March 29, 2009 8:55am
Komata

Has anyone else noticed that a certain Mr D Garner on TV3 news, is now openly declaring his political inclinations – wearing a very ‘Labour’-red tie when delivering the TV3 political news?

This of course delivers a certain message and indicates a bias (and confirms what quite a few long believed about his political views); all on a supposedly neutral media, but then, given the MSM’s politics, we shouldn’t be too surprised.

Funny thing though, he didn’t deem it necessary to so-adorn himself before Labout lost. . .
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March 29, 2009 8:55am
dutchie down south

good point komata, don’t normally watch TV3 but it is worth watching after you comments..
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March 29, 2009 8:57am
dutchie down south

off to watch Q&A…
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March 29, 2009 8:59am
AG

dds

“yep you are right D4J, although we are in Highlanders country here !!”

Do you live in Palmy Nth, then?
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March 29, 2009 9:12am
bharmer

Oh good grief. Wasn’t there a kid beaten to death recently for wearing the wrong colours in an area where a gang that preferred other colours claimed sovereignty?

Maybe Garner is Labour leaning, or maybe not. Maybe it’s just a red tie. Maybe everyone who wears a blue tie is not necessarily a member of the National Party. For myself, I avoid ties whenever I can, but tend to have blue ones because I like the colour.
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March 29, 2009 9:12am
Redbaiter

Paul Henry “being investigated” by TVNZ for remarks he made about a female watermelon’s moustache.

How sickening..!!

Henry is one TVNZ personality who isn’t a completely gutless leftist sycophant, so naturally, he has to be put under pressure.

Sell off this disgusting deceitful Chavez/ Mugabe style blight on the democratic system, funded with public money, posing as an “enterprise”, and doing nothing but pump out left liberal propaganda under the guise of news and comment.

That gutless poseur Alison Mau should be the first to go, refusing to read out viewer’s comments because they may be too controversial, posing as a journalist when she’s never had the spine to ever speak out on any issue that might save us from ever expanding government power. That’s what your real job is Mau. Read about the history of journalism.

What a disgusting farce TVNZ is.

It has to go.
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March 29, 2009 9:23am
Inventory2

Brilliant photo in the HoS of how successful Earth Hour was in the Auckland CBD!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/03/earth-hour-success-yeah-right.html
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March 29, 2009 9:26am
Redbaiter

“TV3 newsreader Samantha Hayes spent an hour in the dark, thinking about the impact of her lifestyle on the climate.”

..hope she didn’t fart during that time. Would have nullified the whole effort.
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March 29, 2009 9:29am
AG

Gosh – Reddy thinks that gratuitous personal abuse is an acceptable – nay, a decidedly positive! – form of journalism. Why does this not come as much of a surprise, given his (let us say) rather robust means of arguing.

(Now sit back and wait for the formulaic claims that I am stupid/uninformed/so-pig-ugly-my-mother-should-have-killed-me-at-birth)
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March 29, 2009 9:29am
Redbaiter

“For myself, I avoid ties whenever I can, but tend to have blue ones because I like the colour.”

It damn well wouldn’t be for any other reason.
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March 29, 2009 9:30am
Redbaiter

EMMA PAGE

Writer of the hit piece on Paul Henry in the Sunday Star Times.

How come Emma, you little sleaze, that you don’t reference the significant fact that Paul Henry is hated by the left in this country and that there is an organised campaign to stir up hatred towards him and get him fired?????

Don’t you think that is germane to this event????

Report the truth you charlatans.
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March 29, 2009 9:35am
colinm

Komata:
Mr Garner did indeed wear his red tie during the election when presenting the political news.
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March 29, 2009 9:39am
Redbaiter

Rebecca Milne avoids the same point (the left’s hatred of Henry) in her Herald story.

Not real journalists. (IMHO)

Just propaganda agents for the left.
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March 29, 2009 9:40am
AG

RB alleges:

“there is an organised campaign to stir up hatred towards him and get him fired”

Do you have evidence of this “organised” campaign, reddy? Minutes of its meetings? Photos of the participants gathering together around green baize tables? A copy of its “master plan to edge out Paul Henry, then take over the rest of the media” that carelessly was left in a briefcase (along with a pie and a Penthouse magazine)? Or are you, yu know, just making shit up?

“Report the truth you charlatans.”

it’s fortunate this doesn’t apply to blog discussion threads, right? It’d leave you with remarkably little to say.
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March 29, 2009 9:41am
Redbaiter

“Gosh – Reddy thinks that gratuitous personal abuse is an acceptable – nay, a decidedly positive! – form of journalism. ”

Hey moron, I never made any such comment.

My point is that if mainstream media journalists were true to their craft, and interested in bringing the truth, they would at least reference the point that there is an orchestrated hate campaign against Henry by the left and that this campaign would play a big part in the response to any perceived transgression.

Complaints would be exaggerated because of this campaign, and this should have been a point in any story on the issue.

If objective reporting was ever going to be the norm. It isn’t of course. The media is riddled with leftist charlatans posing as journalists.

Stop wallowing in your innate leftist narcissism for an instant (I don’t give a damn what you look like) and you might get the point you tiresome bore.
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March 29, 2009 9:48am
Redbaiter

“Do you have evidence of this “organised” campaign, reddy?”

Its all over the net you dumbfuck. Read the Standard, where they’re even telling their buddies to start writing to program sponsors.
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March 29, 2009 9:50am
reid

Anyone seen this story: Leaked survey reveals questions over nuclear ban?

We’re going to need a much stronger defence force in the next 3-5 years. I’m fully expecting a global war at the end of this recession, between China/Russia and the US.

It’s time to pick a side and start building our strength.
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March 29, 2009 9:52am
Brian Smaller

Every time I see Stepahnie Mills on TV all I ever notice is her Mo. Mainly because it is better than mine. Henry was right – it was like an Elephant in the room – no one wanted to mention it but everyone was thinking about it. I bet none of those female journalists or Alison Mau would dream of going on camera with a mo, medical condition or not. Stepahnie Mills however is obviously comfortable with her mo otherwise she would have had a shave before appearing on TV.

Red – there is no journalism in NZ newspapers worth a damn. They are mostly cut and past artists.
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March 29, 2009 9:52am
Patrick Starr

“I bet none of those female journalists or Alison Mau would dream of going on camera with a mo,”

what about a Mole/d?
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March 29, 2009 9:56am
Redbaiter

“Red – there is no journalism in NZ newspapers worth a damn.”

Damn right, and they wonder why they’re going broke. (While FOX roars ahead)

CABLE NEWS RACE
THU., MARCH 26, 2009

FOXNEWS O’REILLY 3,420,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY 2,987,000
FOXNEWS BECK 2,374,000
FOXNEWS GRETA 2,160,000
FOXNEWS BAIER 1,940,000
FOXNEWS SHEP 1,888,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 1,322,000
CNNHN GRACE 1,300,000
MSNBC MADDOW 1,208,000
CNN KING 1,144,000
CNN COOPER 1,118,000

The politically partisan dumbfucks running TVNZ want to fire one of the few presenters they’ve got that will boost their viewership.
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March 29, 2009 9:57am
reid

“Red – there is no journalism in NZ newspapers worth a damn.”

Phil Kitchen? Fran Sullivan?
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March 29, 2009 9:57am
reid

Damn it’s funny to see people go on and on and on about lefty bias then approvingly cite Fox News.
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March 29, 2009 10:00am
David Farrar

Anyone see Q&A? I missed it. How did it go?
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March 29, 2009 10:01am
Redbaiter

“Damn it’s funny to see people go on and on and on about lefty bias then approvingly cite Fox News.”

Actually, only gullible people who bought into the intense leftist campaign to discredit FOX would make that kind of smug uninformed comment. FOX is popular because it isn’t totally saturated with leftist tripe like the rest of the media. (as university studies have shown)
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March 29, 2009 10:08am
Inventory2

AG said “Do you have evidence of this “organised” campaign, reddy? Minutes of its meetings? Photos of the participants gathering together around green baize tables? A copy of its “master plan to edge out Paul Henry, then take over the rest of the media” that carelessly was left in a briefcase (along with a pie and a Penthouse magazine)? Or are you, yu know, just making shit up?”

Well AG, there’s this, for starters

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/sack-henry-now/

With almost 200 comments todate, and an exhortation to write to Rick Ellis demanding Henry’s sacking (e-mail addy provided) seems pretty organised to me. But ironically, if you read the comments, quite a few people have written to Eliis urging him NOT to sack Henry!

And I still find it really ironic that a union man (Tane) is campaigning to have a worker sacked!!
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March 29, 2009 10:09am
AG

RB:

>“Do you have evidence of this “organised” campaign, reddy?”
>Its all over the net you dumbfuck. Read the Standard, where they’re even telling their buddies to start writing to program sponsors.

Ah, well then. If THE STANDARD is on the job, then Henry is well and truly f@cked. I mean, who can resist their mighty tide of opinion? FFS.

As for Henry’s original comment, do you think it generally was acceptable behaviour by a presenter towards a guest on his show? A simple “yes” or “no” will do. If so, then can I suggest you are confusing mainstream TV with the standards of behaviour to be found here. If not, then should his comment pass unnoticed because of his political leanings? Again, “yes” or “no” will do. If not, then your problem is …? If so, then you are a hypocrite.
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March 29, 2009 10:10am
reid

Actually, only gullible people who bought into the intense leftist campaign to discredit FOX would make that kind of smug uninformed comment.

Actually, only gullible people who’ve never watched FoxNews would think it wasn’t biased.
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March 29, 2009 10:10am
big bruv

At last!..somebody prepared to point to the elephant in the room, have a read it is tragic and sadly 100% accurate.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/2298978/Michael-Laws-Maori-Party-apologist-for-excesses-of-its-people
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March 29, 2009 10:12am
Redbaiter

“As for Henry’s original comment, do you think it generally was acceptable behaviour by a presenter towards a guest on his show?”

Define “acceptable behaviour” you nauseating soviet robot.

Henry read out a fax from a viewer. One of many that were sent in on the same subject.
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March 29, 2009 10:15am
big bruv

IV2

You may also have noticed that despite what Clinton Smith (aka Steve Pierson & Robinsod) said about his new job not allowing him to post any more stories at the EPMU & Labour party funded blog he continues to do so under the guise of “guest post”.

Gotta keep that stream of lies and deceit going I guess.
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March 29, 2009 10:16am
Grendel

so what did henry do?

i watched the video, all he did was read comments from viewers, and highlight why people would be interested.

why the witchhunt?
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March 29, 2009 10:17am
AG

BB:

How DARE you cite something appearing in the SST as the basis for making a claim about the world? Don’t you know it is a lefty rag? Haven’t you received the clear party line that (a) all stories appearing in it are wrong; and (b) any time it is mentioned, you are required to spit on the ground? I can see reddy et al will have to re-educate you in “how the world works”.

Unless, of course, the SST is considered to be a reliable source for arguments that happen to accord with already formed political opinions, but when it dares say something that contradicts these, then it is to be scorned as part of the MSM that have been taken over by the leftists as part of the global march of Marxism (etc, etc, etc).
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March 29, 2009 10:18am
Neil

I watched Q&A and saw Judith Collins and the prospective Lockwood Smith’s.
I watched Lockwood Smith and was most impressed with him. He is obviously trying to improve the tone of the house.
I wrote to Dr Smith about speeches being read rather than debating. I do not agree with his stance on allowing reading because I think you should debate issues. In our pubs, meetings etc we debate not read prepared statements.
However Dr Smith has improved the tone of the chamber. Where under previous speaker Margaret Wilson there was palpable anger and discontent. Labour ministers got away with murder.Dr Smith is at least being more even handed despite people like Trevor Mallard and Darren Hughes.
The story of how Dr Smith and his prospective wife was simply delightful when explained. All the best Dr and Mrs Smith !!
Judith Collins was more restrained, with no sudden rushes of blood to the head.
Why can’t Q and A be on mid week at say 9.30pm. The current slot is hopeless !!
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March 29, 2009 10:21am
AG

Reddy:

> “Define “acceptable behaviour” you nauseating soviet robot.
> Henry read out a fax from a viewer. One of many that were sent in on the same subject.

Oh, I see … presenters aren’t meant to exercise any selection role in the viewer faxes/messages they read out. They are automatons who must just pass on whatever is sent to them. So when Paul Henry receives a fax after interviewing John Key saying that (oh, I don’t know) the viewer thinks John Key is a dirty, money loving Jew who is part of the international Zionist global cabal seeking world domination, he’ll just read that out? Right? ‘Cause that is his job?
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March 29, 2009 10:22am
reid

That’s a shocker, bb.

This is primarily due to the philosophy espoused by Harawira that whanau is whanau and that all Maori are whanau. Including child abusers, the murderers and rapists, recidivist crims and gang members. Any normal society would cut such recalcitrants adrift and regard them as aberrant.

No, a ~~normal~~ healthy society would condemn their behaviour but also forgive them. Some people misunderstand forgiveness and perhaps Laws is guilty of this. Forgiveness does NOT mean that you don’t hold people to account for their actions. It means you don’t eternally damn them for it.

I’ve found that in general many Maori people are actually quite up with the play on this concept, and I hope this is where Hone was coming from when he said:

“We’re Maori and we support one another all the time … we are Maori until the day we die. Whanau is whanau.”

If Hone was in fact suggesting that these people should not be punished at all, then and only then, does Laws have a point. But I think it’s worth exploring that question, before one concludes whether Laws is correct or not.
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March 29, 2009 10:22am
Redbaiter

“Don’t you know it is a lefty rag?”

Laws is only conspicuous because of the absence of others like him. Not that he’s ever been anything but a leftist crony. Johnny come lately to the right, and as confused as hell anyway usually. That you think he’s part of the VRWC just shows how crippled your perceptions really are.

You have never addressed my main point. If reporting was objective, factual and informative, the left’s long standing campaign to discredit and get rid of Henry would be a feature of this story. It isn’t. The so called journalists writing on the issue skim over this extremely relevant fact. because they’re not really interested in bringing us truths that confront their own political perspectives.

Edit: Actually that’s not accurate. they don’t “skim over it”. They ignore it. Purposefully I reckon.
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March 29, 2009 10:24am
dutchie down south

@DFF, tried to watch Q + A but my wee sister rung from the Low Countries right at the moment when it started.
Just saw that they had Mark on the panel and a Unionist…(without moustache, although I though that I could spot a wee bit of fluf)
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March 29, 2009 10:27am
reid

Why can’t Q and A be on mid week at say 9.30pm. The current slot is hopeless !!

Of course it is Neil but the schedulers in their vast wisdom think the viewers would prefer to watch something like Hogan Knows Best. These are the same type of people who put the first season of Cheers into an 11:30PM slot.

Regrettably it’s against the law to form an angry mob and storm TVNZ Headquarters in order to correct this historical and ongoing anomaly. However that appears to be the only thing that would make a difference.
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March 29, 2009 10:31am
Redbaiter

“Oh, I see …”

No you don’t. You never will. You’re a narrow and blinkered leftist automaton without the intellectual broadness or intelligence or life experience to ever do anything but read from your Marxist slate.

How about you do as requested. Define “acceptable behavior”, a soviet style term that signifies that if people like you were able to do exactly as you wanted, Henry would be on the next train to the Gulags.
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March 29, 2009 10:31am
Patrick Starr

“the viewer thinks John Key is ”

FFS AG, whats the difference in your example (above) an the stated fact the Stephanie Mills DOES have a moustache?
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March 29, 2009 10:35am
Redbaiter

“Actually, only gullible people who’ve never watched FoxNews would think it wasn’t biased.”

Actually only dipshits who don’t understand the argument would think that bias was the issue. The issue is partisan reporting DISGUISED as objective comment.
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March 29, 2009 10:35am
reid

why the witchhunt?

Apparently these days grendel, it’s against the law to become amused at something that used to feature as novelty acts in a travelling circus.

Aren’t we so lucky to live in such enlightened tolerance?
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March 29, 2009 10:36am
Barnsley Bill

I watched it, mainly because you recommended it DPF.
Collins was clear and managed to avoid tripping herself up. Chipmunk Espiner has some sort of oil in his hair which was a little off putting. Ron Marks was supportive of partial privatisation, Arseneue(sic) had no opinion (as usual) And Laila Harre sprayed her unhappiness about anything that is not text book communism. Pretty much as we would all expect.
The Holmes interview With Lockwood and his lady was bizarre and I am still scratching my head to try and understand why it was done at all.

Holmes looked sweaty and hungover.

Boring television and I will probably not bother again.
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March 29, 2009 10:37am
reid

Actually only dipshits who don’t understand the argument would think that bias was the issue. The issue is partisan reporting DISGUISED as objective comment.

Actually only dipshits who don’t understand English don’t realise that the very definition of bias is “partisan reporting disguised as objective comment.”
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March 29, 2009 10:38am
Patrick Starr

Another fine example of democracy in Palestine

“Hamas arrests Fatah leaders for holding a political meeting in Gaza without a permit from Hamas”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10564145

c’mon you hamas huggers – try and justify this
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March 29, 2009 10:40am
toad

AG said: Do you have evidence of this “organised” campaign, reddy? Minutes of its meetings? Photos of the participants gathering together around green baize tables? A copy of its “master plan to edge out Paul Henry, then take over the rest of the media”

Well, it’s on Frogblog, The Standard and The Hand Mirror. So must be organised – driven by that vast Labour/Green socialist feminist conspiracy whose hidden agenda is to undermine real blokes, femininity, and unrestrained capital!

BTW, every wondered why people like Stephen Joyce give wankers a bad name?
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March 29, 2009 10:40am
big bruv

reid

“No, a normal healthy society would condemn their behaviour but also forgive them. Some people misunderstand forgiveness and perhaps Laws is guilty of this. Forgiveness does NOT mean that you don’t hold people to account for their actions. It means you don’t eternally damn them for it.”

If you believe that then I feel for you, I am fucked if I am ever going to “forgive” a low life should he rape my partner, sister or mother, why it is that you feel the need to tell me (and others) how I should feel?

Many of us were and remain livid at Neville Key for forming a partnership with the racist apartheid party, they (the Maori party) are apologists for the continuing Maori crime wave and middle class honkies who continue to make excuses for them are not better.
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March 29, 2009 10:41am
Redbaiter

“the very definition of bias is “partisan reporting disguised as objective comment.””

Completely wrong.

The true definition of bias contains no element of disguise, as per a bowling ball.
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March 29, 2009 10:41am
AG

RB:

“How about you do as requested. Define “acceptable behavior”, a soviet style term that signifies that if people like you were able to do exactly as you wanted, Henry would be on the next train to the Gulags.”

Errr … no. You’ll find that I asked YOU whether YOU thought P.H.’s behaviour was “acceptable”. Hence, I was seeking YOUR view of what is/is not “acceptable”. So it would appear YOU are playing chicken here. Again.

I am more than happy to say I think P.H. overstepped the bounds of what I regard to be “acceptable behaviour” for a TV presenter … making gratuitous comments about the appearance of people who are guests on your show (even if only “passing on” the comments of viewers) is bad form. As would making a crack about John Key’s jewish heritage. Or about Roger Douglas’s age. Not to say PH’s act was sackable behaviour, though. Obviously he should be sacked for his political views instead. And then sent to the gulags. But not by train. Too carbon intensive. By foot. Or bike.
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March 29, 2009 10:42am
big bruv

Oh how I laughed when Paul Henry (a fellow member of the VRWC) mentioned the moustache, it was extremely funny.

Not quiet as funny as when Henry laughed at the clips of Helen Klark falling over during last years election campaign but it was right up there.
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March 29, 2009 10:46am
reid

If you believe that then I feel for you, I am fucked if I am ever going to “forgive” a low life should he rape my partner, sister or mother, why it is that you feel the need to tell me (and others) how I should feel?

I’m not telling anyone anything, BB. I’m saying that it’s healthy to forgive both as an individual attitude and as a societal attitude. Note the definition of forgiveness in my 10:22 and don’t confuse forgiveness with not holding people to account.

If you chose to live your life with a vengeful attitude because you refuse to forgive then that’s your choice, I’m simply saying it’s not a healthy one.
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March 29, 2009 10:48am
dutchie down south

good to see that the US commies are losing terrain faster than the speed of light… http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_favorablility_ratings/congressional_favorability_ratings
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March 29, 2009 10:50am
Redbaiter

“I am more than happy to say I think P.H. overstepped the bounds of what I regard to be “acceptable behaviour” for a TV presenter (It) is bad form”

What politically partisan self serving rubbish. Gawd you commies are just so so so revolting.

You cannot define your phrase because it is soaked in subjective politically partisan hypocrisy, and for you to use such a term, including the equally sickening “bad form” to discredit Henry and send him to the gulags, makes you are just the kind of nauseating extreme left Soviet style aparachik I say you are.
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March 29, 2009 10:52am
Patrick Starr

“BTW, every wondered why people like Stephen Joyce give wankers a bad name?”

you already had a bad name
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March 29, 2009 10:56am
reid

Completely wrong. The true definition of bias contains no element of disguise, as per a bowling ball.

If you want to get into semantics RB, then look at the origin of the word Bias. Bias was the name of one of seven Greek ethics philosophers who’s wisdom has passed into our lexicon. His moral was “All men are bad.”

I only said that because I find it quite interesting, personally I find your semantic argument quite a weak response to my point above so I’ll say it again in a different way in case you really didn’t understand it.

Anyone who watches FoxNews and doesn’t understand it’s slanted severely away from objective truth as it exists in the real world, is thicker than Prince George in BlackAdder III.

You can cite study after study if you really want to, I don’t give a shit. Hopefully you understand my point now. Let me know if not.
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March 29, 2009 10:58am
AG

reddy,

Sigh.

Define Love for me, reddy. Or Happiness. Or Beauty. Or Good.

Of course the concept “acceptable” is (i) impossible to fully deliniate (except in terms that are equally indeterminate), and (ii) ultimately subjective. But unless you want to abandon the use of ALL abstract concepts (including, I would note, the concept of “revolting”, which entails “revulsion”, which is an indeterminate and subjective one), then I suggest you learn to live with this fact and get on with life.

So, let’s ante up. Why do you think PH’s actions were acceptable? An answer please, not gibbering abuse.
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March 29, 2009 11:02am
reid

Another fine example of democracy in Palestine…[Hames detains Fatah officials]…c’mon you hamas huggers – try and justify this

I’m just surprised Hamas didn’t kill them Patrick. I guess that would have gotten the upcoming reconciliation talks off to a bad start.
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March 29, 2009 11:03am
reid

Why do you think PH’s actions were acceptable?

Well why do you think they weren’t, AG? – cancel that, just read your comment above.
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March 29, 2009 11:04am
Redbaiter

“You can cite study after study if you really want to, I don’t give a shit. Hopefully you understand my point now.”

I’ve always understood it. Your bigotry, driven by your blaise mental subjugation to leftist media brainwashing, takes priority over objective non partisan university studies.

The point is that bias is always going to be present. Its only a human quality after all. The solution is to provide clear alternative viewpoints on issues, and discussion from either perspective. That is what FOX does, and that is why it is so popular.

The left hate FOX only because it allows a perspective the left do not want exposed. They want it all one way.

They want reporting like that of Rebecca Milne and Emma Page, that addresses a matter but deliberately overlooks one of the most important facts, and that is that the complaint campaign against Paul henry is driven by the left, who perceive him as a threat to their cultural ascendancy in this country.

Lying by omission and deceitful. So widespread in the mainstream media.

Hence the Herald and the New York Times and so many other left liberal outlets going broke while FOX prospers..
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March 29, 2009 11:08am
Redbaiter

“Why do you think PH’s actions were acceptable?”

FFS

Because to deem it otherwise merely opens the door to the actions of stinking and destructive control freak Stalinist ideologues like you, who have put dissenters on trains to gulags throughout history.
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March 29, 2009 11:11am
Patrick Starr

Reid…………“let him off Your Honour – it was only kidnapping, not murder”?
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March 29, 2009 11:11am
reid

The left hate FOX only because it allows a perspective the left do not want exposed.

So why do YOU hate e.g. the Herald and the NYT, RB?

It’s amusing and sad at the same time to see people like you sucked into a fantasy that truth exists in certain outlets and not in others.

Facts are facts are facts. Spin can’t obfuscate these to the discerning viewer/reader and neither can it influence their perspective. Only idiots are taken in by spin, from either side.
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March 29, 2009 11:18am
Patrick Starr

AG. Looking at your examples you are missing a few points

“As would making a crack about John Key’s jewish heritage. Or about Roger Douglas’s age”

Stephanie Mills has a moustache. Not all women have obvious moustaches but those that do can do something about it. If you were the front person for a large lobby group you would probably take care not to walk around in public with a large booger hanging from your nose wouldn’t you? – because if you didn’t take that care it says a lot about you. and dont be surprised if people comment because it is not normal to walk around with a large booger hanging from your nose.

What I found most humorous about the issue was the irony of Stephanie Mills preaching the dangers of our modern technology, what it may do to us, how we may look – when she’s the one that looks like she’s been affected
To me, the poorest advertisment for a ‘Green lifestyle’ is looking at the appearence of most of the Greens
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March 29, 2009 11:26am
reid

It is amusing Patrick but I hope you realise that I’ve never said Hamas was a good influence, merely that negotiating with them was a better solution to Gaza than what we saw in December-January.
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March 29, 2009 11:26am
AG

reddy

> “Why do you think PH’s actions were acceptable?”
> FFS
> Because to deem it otherwise merely opens the door to the actions of stinking and destructive control freak Stalinist ideologues like you, who have > put dissenters on trains to gulags throughout history.

Ah … the good old slippery slope. So I guess we can’t condemn murder, because that would just inevitably lead to the state banning the killing of animals and the end of the agricultural economy.

Or, just maybe, you’re being a bit silly, reddy. Condemn PH, end up with Stalin. There’s a Tui billboard there, methinks.
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March 29, 2009 11:27am
Redbaiter

“So why do YOU hate e.g. the Herald and the NYT, RB?”

I do not hate them. I hold them in contempt for their deceit in presenting themselves as objective when they’re constantly pushing left wing propaganda down reader’s throats.

Left wing propaganda disguised as objective comment. For fucks sake, what’s your problem with understanding this simple point??

Where is the Herald’s Janet Albrechtsten, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Steyn?

Its all Alan Coombes and Paul Krugman and Gwynn Dyer (ugh).

That’s the damn problem. Jezuz. What is it with you??
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March 29, 2009 11:28am
Redbaiter

“Ah … the good old slippery slope. So I guess we can’t condemn murder, ”

Oh yeah, making fun of a watermelon prophet on national TV- the moral equivalent of murder in the eyes of a party aparachik. Go away bore.

That you would think of speech you disapprove of as somehow equivalent to the act of murder is why you brain fucked leftists are so dangerous to democracy.
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March 29, 2009 11:31am
reid

“Jezuz. What is it with you??”

I’m objective, you’re not.

I prefer my approach, to yours.
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March 29, 2009 11:33am
billyborker

It is very simple to understand RB’s confusion.

He has been totally brainwashed by a right wing “news” that contains no news, just partisan opinion.

Want proof of his brainwashing? His use of the coporate logo FOX in all his posts, rather than just Fox or fox.

This is why the right is so fucked – they are bought out each time by The Next Big Thing from the capitalists that they never give any time to reflection and contemplation.
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March 29, 2009 11:33am
Redbaiter

Gee Reid, note your “objective” buddies?
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March 29, 2009 11:35am
Patrick Starr

AG – So if a high profile public figure decided he would walk around with – say…. A Yellow Jacket on you wouldn’t expect him to be ridiculed for it???
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March 29, 2009 11:36am
philu

“..# David Farrar (1104) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
March 29th, 2009 at 10:01 am

Anyone see Q&A? I missed it. How did it go?..”

‘holmes on sunday’..

sets new benchmarks in once-over-lightly..

..i can’t understand why they go to all the trouble of a ‘panel’..

..and then leave them no room to speak..?

..and the extended butt-kiss on lockwood smith..and his love-life..

..was way way beyond any pale..

..you have to look to the willie jacksons’ for a decent political gab-fest..

..Q & A seems to be deeply confused..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 29, 2009 11:38am
AG

Patrick,

> AG – So if a high profile public figure decided he would walk around with – say…. A Yellow Jacket on you wouldn’t expect him to be ridiculed for > it???

Depends who by. By commentators in blog posts, absolutely. By “the man in the street”, probably. By TV journalists doing commentary/background pieces on the campaign, probably (given that the high profile figure has made the jacket a center piece of his campaign, it’s pretty fair game). By interviewers/presenters after the figure has just done a serious news interview on an important matter of public interest, no.

I don’t see why folks are trying to defend PH here. What he did was rude and discourteous. It feeds into the increased debasement of journalism, where style and appearance matters more than content (sure, this is only Breakfast TV, but it still pretends to be a news programme sometimes!). I mean, have you all really been so influenced by the 1960s counter-culture that you buy into the “if it felt good for PH, he should do it” mantra? What happened to some sense of gravitas? Some idea that the issues matter, not the face presenting them? Or are those ideas a bit too old fashioned and un-PC for you?
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March 29, 2009 11:49am
Manolo

“.you have to look to the willie jacksons’ for a decent political gab-fest.”

You must be kidding? Willie Jackson, that racist political commentator, is not worth listening to.
His TV show was only good because of some guest panelists. On Radio Live he is outperformed and dwarfed by John Tamihere.

Yes, the same Willie Jackson who extols the virtues of the public health system, while choosing go private for his surgical procedure; the same Maori comrade who praises state education but sends his children to private schools.

Willie Jackson, Ph.D. in hypocrisy.
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March 29, 2009 11:51am
dime

I’d love to see Paul Henry get the sack. Not because he made fun of the greenpeace standard issue female mo… but because hes a prat.

i dont know why hes considered right wing? he was overly soft on helen clark every monday morning.. used to bug me.

that and his unfunny jokes and his habit of smiling at people off camera.. i stopped watching him months ago.
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March 29, 2009 11:52am
AG

reddy,

“That you would think of speech you disapprove of as somehow equivalent to the act of murder is why you brain fucked leftists are so dangerous to democracy.”

That you would consider criticising PH/taking him to task for his rudeness as inevitably leading to Stalin’s gulags is why it is difficult to take anything you say seriously. Hence the fun poked at you over Obama’s birth certificate. Speaking of which, where are we on that front?
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March 29, 2009 11:54am
Manolo

“Stepahnie Mills however is obviously comfortable with her mo otherwise she would have had a shave before appearing on TV.”

Undoubtly, she feels comfortable sporting the moustache. But wait until you see the way she dresses.
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March 29, 2009 12:05pm
Redbaiter

“That you would consider criticising PH/taking him to task for his rudeness as inevitably leading to Stalin’s gulags is why it is difficult to take anything you say seriously.”

Its not difficult at all.

Its the way you people have worked throughout history. Whatever it takes to silence the voice of dissenters, if you can get away with it, you will do it.

If Henry is sacked it will be for no other reason than that your campaign to silence a voice you see as a threat to your current social ascendancy has been successful.

You are determined to silence anyone who challenges your doctrine.

Its how you operate.

Always has been. Always will be.
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March 29, 2009 12:06pm
Redbaiter

“i dont know why hes considered right wing? he was overly soft on helen clark every monday morning.. used to bug me.”

That’s quite right of course. He isn’t really “right wing” at all. The dumbfuck left perceive him that way tho, and that’s all that really matters.

Their ignorant collectivist lowest common denominator perceptions.
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March 29, 2009 12:12pm
TimG_Oz

Ah crap billy borker’s back from suspension. I feel like the IQ in this room just dropped a few points.

Challenge to Billy – prove me wrong and show you are rehabilitated with some intelligent, well argued, well researched, mature posts.
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March 29, 2009 12:17pm
Patrick Starr

AG

Your splitting hairs now, beside Breakfast TV can hardly be described as “serious news interview” it a casual magazine style chat over coffee
“I don’t see why folks are trying to defend PH here. What he did was rude and discourteous.”

nope. You said yourself you dont agree with his political view and he should be sacked for that. Im sure if it were Chris Trotter making the comments about say Judith Collins you wouldn’t have a problem

Whilst on the subject of inappropriate comments and Chris Trotter I’ll remind you of this

“It was these: the men who just couldn’t cope with the idea of being led by an intelligent, idealistic, free-spirited woman; the gutless, witless, passionless creatures of the barbecue-pit and the sports bar (and the feckless females who put up with them); who voted Helen Clark out of office”

didn’t see any outrage from you then AG??????????????
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March 29, 2009 12:21pm
baxter

REID::::::::::I thought forgiveness came after an admission that one did wrong and expressed remorse for one’s actions to the party who was wronged and a promise not to re-offend…Does your Maori culture entail a shortened procedure.
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March 29, 2009 12:23pm
Redbaiter

“Ah crap billy borker’s back from suspension. I feel like the IQ in this room just dropped a few points.”

I’d say he’s been “back” a while, Posting under other handles with contributions that drip with the same stark narcissism. No integrity of course. If he can get away with deceit, he will do it. Self focused psychotics and pseudo liberals like Boring Borker don’t know what self respect means.
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March 29, 2009 12:24pm
Redbaiter

“What he did was rude and discourteous”

In a free country you control freak soviet creep, people can be rude and discourteous if they so choose.

Even if that rudeness and discourtesy is merely the false allegation of some yellow backed communist party apparachik.

Sarah Palin (for example) another who openly and effectively challenged the left’s social and political totalitarianism, was never showed any “rudeness or discourtesy” by the left of course.
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March 29, 2009 12:30pm
billyborker

Sarah Palin (for example) another who openly and effectively challenged the left’s social and political totalitarianism, was never showed any “rudeness or discourtesy” by the left of course.

Of course she was – we had no time to be rude and discourteous to Palin, she wasn’t around long enough. 🙂 And besides, its hard to be rude and discourteous when you’re laughing that anyone could have ever taken her as a serious candidate. The ‘pubs were so afraid Obama would do a deal with Clinton that they had to have a woman, any woman, and Palin was the best they could find.

Shows how shallow their talent pooli is, what with only her for VP and Rush Limbuagh as Pres.

Shit, I’ll have to log off now, I am laughing so hard at the stupidity of the doctrine RB follows.
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March 29, 2009 12:42pm
billyborker

Redbaiter (5462) 0 1 Says:

March 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
“Ah crap billy borker’s back from suspension. I feel like the IQ in this room just dropped a few points.”

I’d say he’s been “back” a while, Posting under other handles

I doubt that DPF would permit anyone to undermine hsi demerits/ban system. And although I disagree with the last oo demerits that saw me banned 2 weeks, I respect it is his system and his rules.

Of course, if you could show I had been operating here under “other handles” I am sure you would have bragged to the sky. Coz really, when all’s said and done, you say a lot and do nothing; just a great big skite.
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March 29, 2009 12:51pm
philu

did you realise that john key might be down to his last 30 mill..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/nowspare-a-thought-for-john-keyand-his-rapidly-disappearing-mountain-of-money/

holy vanishing money..!..batman..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 29, 2009 1:21pm
dad4justice

I find it rather strange that a small rural town like Oxford has two spiteful lefty bloggers, one called billy and the other jack, talk about using “other handles”. Shall I ask jill for another liarbour pill?
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March 29, 2009 1:32pm
billyborker

Maybe you should move out here and join us dad. This village needs a new idiot.
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March 29, 2009 1:34pm
Inventory2

It’s called “wealth” Phil – that’s what you can accumulate when you have a paying job. <aybe you should try it some time 😉
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March 29, 2009 1:40pm
Inventory2

It’s called “wealth” Phil – that’s what you can accumulate when you have a paying job. Maybe you should try it some time 😉
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March 29, 2009 1:41pm
dad4justice

Oxford locals tell me that billy and jack are more than enough as far idiots of the highest order go. Say gidday to fugley.
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March 29, 2009 1:46pm
reid

I thought forgiveness came after an admission that one did wrong and expressed remorse for one’s actions to the party who was wronged and a promise not to re-offend

You’re talking about repentance, Baxter, it’s a separate concept.

If an offender wishes to ask for forgiveness then they should repent – that’s the only right thing to do.

However the party granting forgiveness can do so whether or not the offender has chosen to repent. This happens all the time. Imagine for example if God chose not to forgive sin until true repentance had actually occurred. There’d be about 5 people in the Kingdom of Heaven.
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March 29, 2009 2:26pm
billyborker

Instead of the how many now in the kingdom of heaven? try zero.
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March 29, 2009 2:35pm
dad4justice

Good stuff fugley. Go back to the putrid offal pit and play cards with my name is clap and billy dorker. You are sooooooooooo
predicable because you soooooooooooooooooooooo full of hate!
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March 29, 2009 2:40pm

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