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March 27, 2009 8:28am by David Farrar

General Debate 27 March 2009

I have discovered that it is not a good idea to try to sample one of every cocktail listed at a bar.

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big bruv

566 for 6

Tattooed canvas 86 not out
“Capin Dan” 34 not out.
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March 27, 2009 3:23pm
stephen

Tattooed canvas 86 not out

Soon to be ‘tattooed gibbering wreck’ when he enters the 90s. No career centuries against anyone except Ireland, the ‘deshies and Zimbabwe.
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March 27, 2009 3:27pm
Chthoniid

McCullum gets his century 🙂
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March 27, 2009 3:40pm
big bruv

592 for 6

Tattooed canvas 103 not out

Capin Dan 43 not out
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March 27, 2009 3:40pm
stephen

well he proved me wrong. Time for a bit of 20/20 methinks.
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March 27, 2009 3:42pm
Rex Widerstrom

Like big bruv, I find myself in rare agreement with MNIJ. It helps to look beyond the nickname to the topic, I guess, so for those who didn’t, let’s take another look:

The UN (Helen Clark’s new sinecure, in case you’d forgotten) voted 23 – 11 (with 13 abstentions) to “urge the passage of laws” making criticism of religion defamatory.

The resolution was proposed by Pakistan, which is so renowned for it’s tolerance, diversity and calm approach to differences of opinion that any satire or sarcasm I could insert at this point would simply be moot.

It’s like the Mongrel Mob taking to the pulpit and criticising the rest of us for getting ever so slightly ticked off in that traffic jam yesterday, then shooting a few children on their way out the church.

On a brighter note, a good friend of mine who lives in Malaysia (mainly because she was born there) reports that she has successfully received a loan from her bank. In these striaghtened times that would be cause for celebration in itself. But the loan is to enable her to purchase a 25 year old Mercedes.

I think the cumulative effect of every feeble-minded trend follower in NZ turning off their energy-efficient lightbulbs for an hour has been negated right there 🙂
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March 27, 2009 3:53pm
Inventory2

An hour of slap and tickle from the Black Caps? Methinks so. If McCullum and Vettori stay together, 675 plus is well within reach – should be fun to watch!
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March 27, 2009 4:00pm
MyNameIsJack

Don’t know if muzza is still around, but here’s something for him to mull over.

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20090325/cx_po_uc/po20090325
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March 27, 2009 4:07pm
Rakaia George

Inventory2 – what’s the record for the host individual centuries in an innings? May as well have a crack at that because if this match isn’t a draw, I’ll eat my laptop…
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March 27, 2009 4:08pm
Nomestradamus

Greenfly:

I wrote a reasonably lengthy response to your comment, but Firefox crashed on me (apparently for having the temerity to open a PDF in the background), and I don’t have the inclination to retype my entire comment. But I’ll try to cover most of the same ground again:

The model we are following now is failing miserably to ‘feed the world’ and has a raft of other serious downsides(don’t mention the environment,it only upsets hard-core environmentalists like Big Bro).

You’ve kind of left the stable door ajar here: I’d argue that multitude of factors, not a single factor, has contributed to the food production problem. I’m not sure one of those factors is global capitalism, although I suspect you’d strongly disagree with that view. One usually associates food shortage with the African continent in particular, but that region has its own unique issues, with corrupt dictatorships being the most obvious one.

This article provides an interesting perspective on the food production problem (unfortunately the last sentence in the article appears to be incomplete). Some key extracts:

World population is projected to grow significantly over the next 30-40 years, with the United Nations medium population forecast predicting that world population will be more than 9 billion in 2050, an increase of more than 2.6 billion since 2005.

It is possible that the world agricultural system could cope with this increase through normal productivity improvements, but two other large demand factors are coming into play just as we appear to be approaching limits on arable land and water.

The first of these is that we are seeing exponential growth in world affluence, which means a lot more people will have a lot more money. This sounds great, but it will have a significant effect on food supply because history shows us that as people become more affluent they move from subsistence living on tubers and vegetables, to eating more cereals, and then to eating far more animal protein.

Due to limitations on available land and our depletion of wild fish stocks, any significant increase in animal protein production will have to come from feeding grain and plant protein to animals and fish.

Consequently grain demand will rise even further because it takes a lot more grain to feed an animal than it does for us to survive on the cereals.

The second major new demand factor is the significant push for biofuels in response to climate change and fears of peak oil. As an example, the US ethanol industry alone will use 104 million tonnes of corn next year to produce ethanol. That is 100% of average annual world coarse grain trade and 6.4% of global cereal grain production.

The factors we have described have been discussed by many people, but what will happen has not been fully grasped by anybody. What this means is that demand for cereals is accelerating away from us in a different way — so the global food supply will be significantly different.

So I think the problem is fairly complex.

Now, returning to your comment, you wrote:

The name ‘Clean Seas Tuna’ really does set alarm bells ringing with me, aside from the obvious allusion (clean out the seas), just as Blue Sky belies the reality of the dairy farms under that name. Corporate farming is presently alive and seemingly well in NZ, but is fouling it’s own nest and will wilt. The resentment amongst ‘family farmers’ in my district toward the corporates is palpable.

Two comments here.

First, I’m not sure you fully understand what this company does. I’m not a shareholder, and have no other association with the company, so there’s no vested interest in my following comment.

The most recent annual report is here. Quoting from the chairman’s report (which I’ve had to copy-type again):

The year under review has been successful, highlighted by the company’s production of fertilised Southern Bluefin Tuna eggs and a number of SBT larvae – a giant step towards realising our plans to close the lifecycle of SBT, and thereby secure sustainable production of this premium endangered specifies.

This breakthrough attracted high level international scientific interest, peer recognition and commercial support which we have capitalised on through operational agreements with centres of excellence across the globe.

At the same time, we have continued to meet our production targets for Mulloway and Yellowtail Kingfish whilst building on existing markets and securing significant new distribution channels, domestically and internationally. This hard work strengthened our routes to global markets and underpins the future success of the company.

Second, more generally, you refer to “resentment amongst ‘family farmers’ in my district toward the corporates”.

I don’t know which district you’re in, but would you agree that one possible reason for that resentment is the perceived threat of corporate-scale production on a smaller-scale family business? Perhaps this is simplistic reasoning, but if that’s the case, isn’t that precisely the scale that’s needed to deal with, as you put it, “the question re. feeding the billions”?

In any event, Greenfly, would you have ethical or commercial objections to a company like Clean Seas Tuna, which appears to be applying novel scientific techniques to food production, rather than “clean out the seas” as you originally thought?
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March 27, 2009 4:28pm
PhilBest

Look, anyone who doubts that the U.N. has been all but hijacked by the Muslim bloc in conjunction with the totalitarian bloc, watch THESE videos, and have your chunder bucket handy:

This is not propaganda, this is untampered video OF PROCEEDINGS AT THE U.N.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=31F629C9FF2C34C2
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March 27, 2009 4:28pm
PhilBest

Bjorn Lomborg in the latest “Australian”:

“……….In Australia, where Earth Hour started, it evidently enjoys strong support from politicians, celebrities, corporate backers and the public. The efforts this Saturday certainly will be well-intentioned. Many of us worry about global warming and would like to be part of the solution. Unfortunately, this event – as with many public proposals on climate change – is an entirely symbolic gesture that creates the mistaken impression that there are easy, quick fixes to climate change……

“…….It will take more than the metropolitan borough of South Tyneside, population 152,000, to solve global warming. Even if a billion people turn off their lights this Saturday, the entire event will be equivalent to switching off China’s emissions for six short seconds. In economic terms, the environmental and humanitarian benefits from the efforts of the entire developed world would add up to just $21,000.

The campaign doesn’t ask anybody to do anything difficult, such as coping without heating, airconditioning, telephones, the internet, hot food or cold drinks. Conceivably, if you or I sat in our houses watching television, with the heater and computer running, we could claim we’re part of an answer to global warming, so long as the lights are switched off. The symbolism is almost perverse…….

“…….And it gets worse: the event could cause higher overall pollution than if we just left our lights on. When asked to extinguish electricity, people turn to candlelight. Candles seem natural, but are almost 100 times less efficient than incandescent light globes, and more than 300 times less efficient than fluorescent lights. If you use one candle for each extinguished globe, you’re essentially not cutting CO2 at all, and with two candles you’ll emit more CO2. Moreover, candles produce indoor air pollution 10 to 100 times the level of pollution caused by all cars, industry and electricity production.

No wonder that even committed climate campaigners are sceptical………

“………There is still no cheap replacement for the carbon that we burn. This is the reason many promises of drastic CO2 cuts remain just empty promises and why past global agreements to cut CO2 have gone unfulfilled.

A meaningful solution to global warming needs to focus on research into and development of clean energy, instead of fixating on empty promises of carbon emission reductions.

It is vital to make solar and other new technology cheaper than fossil fuels quickly so we can turn off carbon energy sources for a lot longer than one hour and keep the planet running. Every country should agree to spend 0.05 per cent of its gross domestic product on low-carbon energy research and development. The total global cost would be 10 times greater than present spending, yet be 10 times less than the cost of the Kyoto Protocol on carbon emission reductions. This response to global warming is a realistic, achievable one.

Fossil fuels literally gave us an enlightenment, by lighting our world and giving us protection from the fury of the elements. It is ironic that today’s pure symbolism should hark back to a darker age.”
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March 27, 2009 4:33pm
Inventory2

Rakaia George – New Zealand has twice scored four centuries in an innings – at Perth vs Aussie and Mohali vs India. You’re probably right about the draw, but as a Kiwi cricket tragic, I live in hope 🙂
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March 27, 2009 4:37pm
philu

madeline.. i see you recylce comments..tho’..

(but in the same thread..?..

..isn’t that ‘too soon’..?

..to self-plagiarise..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 27, 2009 4:56pm
greenfly

Nosmestadamus – I’m sorry I missed your original. You are very thorough. You ask:

In any event, Greenfly, would you have ethical or commercial objections to a company like Clean Seas Tuna, which appears to be applying novel scientific techniques to food production, rather than “clean out the seas” as you originally thought?

No, not at all. I’d like to know more. I’ll try to catch up over the weekend, though I’m fully engaged in organising a festival here (food) and shouldn’t be doing even this post 🙂
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March 27, 2009 5:58pm
Nomestradamus

Greenfly:

No worries – we can park this topic for the time being.

Food science technology is an interesting topic, and while I don’t pretend to be fully-informed on it, I’m interested in the implications for global food production (and any side-implications for other industry sectors).

Now, about this festival that you’re fully engaged in organising, you didn’t say but I hope it’s a wine and food festival. You wouldn’t want Kiwiblog readers to think that the Greens have added wine to the “Greens ban-list” – with the possible exception of organic wine. I’m strictly a social drinker, and I’d be first in line to protest if the Greens propose to impose a wine ban on the fun-loving population 🙂
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March 27, 2009 6:27pm
greenfly

Nomestradamus (on the fly!) Lots of wine, mead, wine-sap and beer, all locally brewed (commercial and home) All of it good-to-excellent! We’ve workshops on brewing, a cider press operating, tastings all round. Good times ahead. I won’t begin to tell you about the food, but believe me, it’ll be to die for.The Greens will NEVER ban good brews. They’re not stupid. Leave that to the wowsers!
I’ll sample some for you 🙂
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March 27, 2009 7:14pm
Whafe

Whafe – those ‘9 Billion peeps’ will grow their own. I’ve already mastered that art. I’m working with my local community and the wider region so that everyone can do the same. Self determination. It’s the only way foward, Whafe, unless you know a better way? Feel free to educate me. (I hope your solution doesn’t rely on ‘corporate’ farming, cause that’s a cause that’s dead in the water).

Your ideas that 9 billion will grow their own is very noble greenfly, the chances of it realistically being sucessful is a big fat zero. For sure it will be capable of some, but not 9 billion, this you know, but a sure out of spite will never agree to or with…
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March 27, 2009 7:47pm
dad4justice

greenshit;the utopian greens are both stupid and mentally deranged. They are a sick old joke.
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March 27, 2009 7:48pm
big bruv

I see both Frogblog and the EPMU/Labour party blog the standard are bleating about Paul Henry and he Stephanie Mills moustache saga.

Go and have a read, the faux outrage is hilarious, no mention of “chinless scarf wearers” or “cancerous and corrosive” of course just another attempt to silence all those who disagree with the views of the left.
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March 27, 2009 9:51pm
greenfly

Probably too late for this thread (dad4J will be wrapped up in his winceyette jim-jams and snuggled down under his Spongebob Squarepants duvet) but, Whafe, tell me what YOU are doing toward feeding the billions? Go on, what are you really doing, on the ground, not just in your head. if you are doing nothing, keep your criticisms to yourself. I’m fully engaged in the process.
dad4justice – why the fuck are you calling me greenshit? The worst I’ve ever called you is ‘dad’! Not that insults affect me at all, I just wonder wtf (that’s ‘why the fuck’) you feel you need to do that. Put up or shut up.
Big Bruv – your fixation with facial hair on women is waaaaaay beyond normal. I couldn’t care less about why you are so fascinated, but from a distance, you seem to have a disturbing obsession. Soon I’m going to start asking some awkward questions about your mum and ‘the early years’. Sleep tight, bedbugs etc.
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March 27, 2009 11:27pm
Patrick Starr

“you seem to have a disturbing obsession”

now greenfly – your fixation with Roger Douglas and Judith Collins has been noticed (and mentioned) before also. Are you still dipping your toes in the river? -Cant you make up your mind?

The Paul Henry comments were absolutely hilarious and is currently one of the most talked about bits of tele in a long while. The link has done the email circuit over the past few days and their ratings will be going through the roof.

Very clever (and funny) marketing
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March 28, 2009 12:39am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Paul Henry’s comments were top shelf.

Much enjoyed.
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March 28, 2009 8:45am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

You can’t make this shit up:
Clark will make solo move to New York

Is Helen Clark going to COME OUT with the truth one day or is going to live her life as a sham until her dying day?
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March 28, 2009 8:56am
jcuknz

SOCIALISM or the FREE MARKET which will win.

There appears to be an interesting contrast in approaches between the USA and that of Europe. The states is throwing its money at the banks with the trickle down theory will help its people return from unemployment and poverty. Whereas Europe with a pretty well established social welfare system, as does New Zealand, is providing money, about three quarters as much as the states, to keep people in jobs with a scheme in Germany which pays people when they work short time.

The idea is that people in work spend and keep the ecconomy going.

This article from the New York Times explains http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/world/europe/27germany.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

It would appear that our government is hesitantly tipping its toe in the water with the nine day fourtnight which I think I’m right in saying the idea came from the socialists at the recent conference.

Dim-Post on Tizard was funny … thanks DP and David.

One person I know is going to say that having ruined New Zealand Helen is now going on to ruin the world. But perhaps I put words in her mouth … naighty me.
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March 28, 2009 9:30am
jcuknz

As for the 8.30 shut down .. the solution is simple … I’ll go to bed half an hour earlier than I did last night … no lights no candles … no polution .. just natural human regreneration 🙂
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March 28, 2009 9:40am
transmogrifier

I don’t get people all that much.

Moving away from old-fashioned family values = very bad
Mocking people for their appearance rather than debating what they were actually saying = fantastic

Shallow, slanted, soundbite-driven, lazy TV journalism = terrible
Paul Henry = a breath of fresh air

Sometimes you’ve got to just shake your head and wonder, “What the hell?!”
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March 28, 2009 9:45am
big bruv

OECD

“Clark will make solo move to New York”

I did notice that story, it does not surprise me at all, one wonders why Klark continues with the charade that is her marriage, remember this is the wimin who has said that her wedding day “was the saddest day of her life”.

I guess it proves what many of us have been saying for years, Klark will stop at nothing to get her grubby greedy little hands on the reigns of power, I wonder how she will manufacture a job or position in NY for Judith?
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March 28, 2009 9:49am
Dirty Rat

Big Bruv
You should be happy that our Former Esteemed Prime Minister will be moving to New York and taking up a postion that most can only dream about. New Zealanders have done New Zealand proud around the world in diplomatic duties such as Sir Don McKinnon and that Mike Moore. In fact I think that Sir Don would have been a fine Prime Minister for New Zealand if the National Party at the time hadnt been hi-jacked by the Catholic element of the party.
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March 28, 2009 10:19am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Dirty Rat – Helen Clark is an embarrassment to New Zealand. Her position will reflect poorly on New Zealanders.

Mike Moore’s job is by far the most important. His job involved giving people a hand up. Helen Clark’s job is all abut giving hand outs. She will achieve nothing of lasting importance.
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March 29, 2009 6:10am

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