General Debate 22 March 2009

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reid

Ralston’s column today nicely illustrated the point I and some others have been making since National was elected.

I watch John Key and Bill English frantically pulling on the joystick of the economy, revving the throttle and flicking every switch they can find and I’m certain we are still in a vertical dive.

Key’s recent calming words about the recession, saying we are faring better than most, sound a little like the pilot coming on the intercom and telling terrified passengers “we have a small technical malfunction” as they watch the port engine burst into flame…

It is at this point I feel like donning my lifejacket, adjusting my oxygen mask and adopting the approved crash position that will handily allow me to kiss my butt goodbye.

Up in the cockpit Key and English can do whatever they want, and frankly most of what they are doing is theoretically right, but back in economy class I get the feeling that their efforts will have only a very limited effect, the economy will follow its course and eventually have to right itself as the condition of our major trading partners improves.

Everything Key and English has done is conventional conservative economics. Unfortunately, there’s nothing conventional about the GFC. This is not a cyclical adjustment it’s a structural failure. Every minute that ticks by without public recognition of this fact makes people more and more fearful of the future because they can see what’s happening and they know it’s getting worse not better. They are looking for leadership and it’s not there. All Key has done is make soothing noises. This is bullshit. What Key has to do and should have done months ago, is to publically recognise what everyone knows and give people an indication of a plan of action to deal with it.

This cannot consist of conventional economics along the lines of what we’ve been doing. Every minute that ticks by without him doing this makes people think he either doesn’t recognise it himself or he doesn’t have a plan. That is very poor leadership and simply generates greater fear amongst the people.
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March 22, 2009 8:44am
greenfly

Little wonder they both look green around the gills. All of the planning is aimed at ‘the recovery’, nothing of significance for the fall. Perhaps the well-heeled feel that they can ride out a recession on their accumulated wealth, but most of the rest of us are going to feel the pain. And we are starting to get anxious about leadership that is blase (blar zay).
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March 22, 2009 8:58am
cha

IDF fashion 2009 and the Hebrew version with more pictures
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March 22, 2009 9:01am
TimG_Oz

Shocking, cha. Thankfully it’s an Israeli newspaper reporting this – Israelis will be, on the whole, disgusted. I feel that it’s misrepresented though as it is not IDF policy but only that of a few rogues – they only printed 100 shirts.

I liked the commentary from the Psychologist – that the behaviour is a pattern seen in soldiers in many conflicts. Also from a Socialist at Bar Ilan University regarding the polarization and shift to the right that is the result of the ongoing violence
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March 22, 2009 9:47am
dutchie down south

anybody been watching Paul Holmes’ new show, Q+A this morning ?
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March 22, 2009 10:09am
XChequer

Q+A is definitely no Agenda.

Have done a review here at http://thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/2009/03/i-miss-agenda.html.

I’ve said it there – I’ll say it here – Therese A is the best looking bird in politics (and thats after spotting Nikki Kaye above).

XChequer
http://thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/
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March 22, 2009 10:20am
XChequer

Reid

I even heard grudging admiration for Keys performance re: the GFC from Andrew Little on this mornings Q+A.

Sometimes I think Bill is a bit sensationalist just for the hell of it and throw away comments such as the one re: the pilot and the intercom are just a wee bit populist.

XChequer
http://thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/
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March 22, 2009 10:22am
reid

Sometimes I think Bill is a bit sensationalist just for the hell of it and throw away comments such as the one re: the pilot and the intercom are just a wee bit populist.

Yeah but I wasn’t getting my point from what Bill said, I and others have been making it for ages.

What we’re saying is simply the reality.

Key is displaying remarkably poor leadership on this utterly critical issue by doing what he’s been doing (soothing noises which are having no effect), and by not doing what he should have been doing, since elected.

Taking the ‘don’t scare the punters and the markets approach’ which is what he’s been doing is absolutely idiotic because that approach in these times merely exacerbates the fear for reasons I outlined above.

It’s like Churchill after Dunkirk pretending it would all be OK. Wouldn’t that have been rather dumb? Instead, Churchill offered blood, toil, tears and sweat. And surprise surprise, people responded.

This situation is exactly similar albeit just different in magnitude. However when you’re talking about thousands of people being made redundant and not getting another job for years and losing their homes, it’s more serious than anything we’ve faced for a very long time. That’s the reality. Pretending it doesn’t exist because you don’t like it, is a position reserved for the village idiot.

The rest of us need leadership that recognises the gravity and explains what the plan is, in detail. We’re not getting it, and we should have already had it, months ago.
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March 22, 2009 11:08am
Simon

“The Baker report on an exit strategy from Iraq, leaked this week in the US, is as sensible as it is sensational. It rejects “staying the course” as no longer plausible and purports to seek alternatives to just “cutting and running”. Stripped of political sweetening, it concludes that there is none. America must leave Iraq without preconditions and hope that its neighbours, hated Syria and Iran, can clear up the mess. This advice comes not from some anti-war coalition but from the Iraq study group under the former Republican secretary of state, James Baker, set up by Congress with President George Bush’s endorsement. Students of Iraq studies should at this point sit down and steady their nerves. Kissinger is in Paris. The Vietnam moment is at hand”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/oct/18/comment.iraq

Bush was right and smarter than anyone at the Guardian. Least we forget.
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March 22, 2009 11:13am
reid

Shocking, cha. Thankfully it’s an Israeli newspaper reporting this – Israelis will be, on the whole, disgusted.

Yes, they will be Tim.

Here’s another thing they’ll be disgusted about.

Another [IDF] soldier, describing how a mother and her children were shot dead by a sniper after they turned the wrong way out of a house, says the “atmosphere” among troops was that the lives of Palestinians were “very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers”.

A [IDF] squad leader said: “At the beginning the directive was to enter a house with an armoured vehicle, to break the door down, to start shooting inside and – I call it murder – to shoot at everyone we identify. In the beginning I asked myself how could this make sense? Higher-ups said it is permissible because everyone left in the city [Gaza City] is culpable because they didn’t run away.”

The accounts, which also describe apparently indiscriminate destruction of property, were given at a post-operation discussion by graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military course at the Oranim Academic College in northern Israel. The transcript of the session in front of the head of the course – details from which were published by the newspaper Haaretz – prompted the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) military advocate general Avichai Mendelblit yesterday to announce a military police investigation into the claims. Haaretz said the airing of the “dirty secrets” would make it more difficult for Israelis to dismiss the claims as Palestinian propaganda. The course principal, Danny Zamir, told the newspaper that after being “shocked” by the testimonies on 13 February he told the IDF chief of staff Gabi Ashkenazi he “feared a serious moral failure” in the IDF.
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March 22, 2009 11:16am
Redbaiter

Fuck off Reid, I don’t come to Kiwiblog to be swamped with Donald Macintyre’s anti Israeli propaganda, hate in the disguise of objective reporting. Disgraceful abuse of journalism.
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March 22, 2009 11:25am
greenfly

Think the t-shirts were cute, did you Redbaiter?
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March 22, 2009 11:30am
cha

TimG_Oz, I agree that these guys are only a few bad apples in the IDF and it’s heartening to see an Israeli version of Wintersoldier. And before the usual clowns tell me I’m an anti-semite because I abhor some of the IDF actions and conduct and disagree with some Israeli policies, I’ll continue to support Israel and her right to exist.

Also, I believe condemnation of Israel is not going to either better Israel or its help neighbours and I agree with this, that isolation will only drive Israel to adopt the tactics of her adversaries.
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March 22, 2009 11:53am
Redbaiter

“Think the t-shirts were cute, did you Redbaiter?”

I take everything from the left with a grain of salt. Leftists are liars. They lie to themselves and everyone about them from the moment they awake until they the time they return to sleep.

The leftist world (especially of the leftist Jew) is composed of a toxic mix of self delusion, subtle political fabrications and borderline insanity.

There’s hardly one significant claim I have ever heard from a leftist that has not afterwards collapsed under scrutiny.
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March 22, 2009 12:00pm
Jack5

Relevant to those “Pauline Hanson” pictures, whose publishing Kiwiblog reflected on … Today’s Fairfax (Stuff) web site, carries an AAP report in which the Sydney tabloid that published the pictures apologises and says it was duped by the person who supplied them.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/2283079/Paper-apologises-to-Hanson-over-photographs
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March 22, 2009 12:23pm
TimG_Oz

Cha,

I agree that is good to see. I would desparately like to also see a Palestinian or even Hamas website that is similar – Why should there be a double standard, especially when Hamas rejoice the murder of innocents?
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March 22, 2009 12:42pm
TimG_Oz

The leftist world (especially of the leftist Jew) is composed of a toxic mix of self delusion, subtle political fabrications and borderline insanity.

Hi RB – can you just clarify why the leftist Jew is more or less different to leftists in general? Please note, I’m not accusing you of bias or discrimination, I’d just like clarification…

Thanks
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March 22, 2009 12:44pm
racer

So, about that Queensland election huh?
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March 22, 2009 12:45pm
wreck1080

I’ve just spotted (not being a mobile data user), vodafone are billing $1 per mb of data usage for their customers , over 10mb.

.this really is outrageous. I actually despise vodafone more than telecom now, just waiting for telecom to bring out gsm…….sooner than later I hope.

The following is taken from their website..

…So never miss an auction on TradeMe or the latest from your mates on Facebook; check out the weather on the MetService and, if it’s dodgy, book yourself a flight out of here with airnz.mobi. Whatever you need to do online, it’s all there at your fingertips.

*Additional data over the 10MB limit costs $1 per MB. Casual rate not applicable while roaming. For more information on our casual data rate and other mobile broadband plans, see vodafone.co.nz
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March 22, 2009 12:58pm
grumpyoldhori

cha, I have to wonder about the junior officers in the IDF if they are ignoring or encouraging those type of T shirts.
It seems a lot of the IDF believe they should take their orders from their rabbis, not good.
Anti Semtic some say, difficult when so many Israeli Jews have no Semitic blood they seem to confuse a religion with a race.
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March 22, 2009 1:08pm
big bruv

racer

What happened in Queensland?
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March 22, 2009 1:14pm
cha

In a word GOH, conscription, because I seriously doubt a professional soldier tolerate such unprofessional behaviour.
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March 22, 2009 1:25pm
searching

Queensland remain true:

QUEENSLAND’S triumphant Premier Anna Bligh will announce her new cabinet line-up this week after her historic election win.
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March 22, 2009 1:50pm
kiwi in america

Two questions for resident lefties and/or Obama supporters:

1 – Assume George Bush had made the ‘Special Olympics’ quip on Leno’s show, what would have been the media’s response? You guessed it – front page wall to wall outrage.

2 – Assume the Bush White House had responded to Gordon Brown’s thoughtful gift of a handmade pen made from timber from a 19th Century anti slave Royal Navy vessel with a collection of 25 DVDs of American movies that can’t even be played on a British DVD player – how would the media have reported such an affront? Endless media elite chatter about the hick Texan cowboy out of his depth.

Obama has done both in the space of two weeks and the media have barely raised an eyebrow to criticize The One.

Rasmussen was the most accurate pollster for the 2006 AND 2008 election cycles. He puts Obama’s popularity at an amemic 56% only 60 days into his administration with the margin between Strongly Support and Strongly Oppose at a paltry 4%. Bush 1 and 2, Clinton, even Nixon enjoyed support over 60% and Reagan and Carter were wildly popular in their 1st 100 days.

Slowly but surely America is coming to realise that Obama is in over his head. His Treasury team, announced days after his election, still have yet to produce a banking package despite it being promised by Geithner 3 times already. He has suffered a record number of embarrassing appointment withdrawals. His gaffes multiply and his stimulus package contained two known stink bombs – the AIG bonus approval that his own Treasury Secretary specifically asked to be inserted into the Bill and the Teamster Union driven cancellation of the Mexican truckers access to US markets that involved a mere 97 Mexican trucks that had met the more stringent US regulations provoking a multi billion dollar tariff retaliation from Mexico. Last time a trade war began in a recession was…. the Great Depression after the Smoot Hawley Act of 1932 provoked retaliatory tariffs from US trading partners.

Wait until Moscow, Pyongyang and Teheran all challenge this neophyte and we’ll truly have the Carter Presidency retread!
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March 22, 2009 2:52pm
greenfly

So Redbaiter, the t-shirts, cute or not? The one with the pregnant woman, the crosshairs etc. was that your favourite? Hard to pick, isn’t it! Do share your thoughts.
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March 22, 2009 3:04pm
reid

Fuck off Reid, I don’t come to Kiwiblog to be swamped with Donald Macintyre’s anti Israeli propaganda, hate in the disguise of objective reporting. Disgraceful abuse of journalism.

Why don’t you fuck off, RB? I’ve been longer than you have. Does that give me more rights than you? No? So STFU then.

If you had any objectivity, you’d notice that the linked report is merely one of many, all referencing the same story. Which originated in Israel.

It’s rather stupid to take a negative approach to something just because it conflicts with whatever truth you’d prefer to hear, I’ve always thought.
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March 22, 2009 3:47pm
TimG_Oz

Grumpy Old Hori posted a comment that was totally decipherable – it just sounded like the usual grumpy mutterings about not liking Israel.

I’m sure that people, that were born Jews (i.e. had no say in the matter), and have a vast spectrum of political and religious beliefs would not like to be stereotyped in the way that he appears to. Especially when the majority that he appears to refer to are probably secular Jews (or your equivalent of Atheists or Agnostics)…..

Don’t worry GOH – I don’t expect a straight answer from you (I’ve never had one yet). Just post more grumpy mutterings about Israel and the Jews…..
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March 22, 2009 4:18pm
reid

“Grumpy Old Hori posted a comment that was totally decipherable – it just sounded like the usual grumpy mutterings about not liking Israel.”

I assume you mean indecipherable, Tim. It was perfectly decipherable to me.

I mean, is it the case that “a lot of the IDF take their orders from Rabbis?” I don’t know. Wouldn’t imagine so, but if they did, it wouldn’t be a healthy thing, would it? Whatever the answer, it was perfectly understandable.

Secondly, isn’t it the case that Jews are not Semites? That Semites are Arabs? That’s why Iranians aren’t Arabs, isn’t it, because they’re Aryans. Isn’t that the case? You seem to know a lot about it, that’s all, thought you might know, I haven’t explored it myself, just read it somewhere once.

In general though, I find it interesting that some people take any comment that’s critical of Israel with a dose of over the top hysteria of Biblical proportions. It’s quite insane how vehemently defensive they become at even the mildest point of criticism. Why is that, Tim?
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March 22, 2009 4:33pm
Redbaiter

“It’s rather stupid to take a negative approach to something just because it conflicts with whatever truth you’d prefer to hear, I’ve always thought.”

Jeezuz Reid. Look, there are left and right wing journalists. The left wingers probably out number the right wingers one hundred to one. You cannot evaluate information without first filtering it for political bias. If you do accept reporting as objective, you’re an idiot.

You have to look at what left wing journalists are saying, (in most cases this means just read the mainstream media) and to look at what right wing journalists are saying, and then you decide for yourself what is the truth.

To accept any political story on the basis that what is written is totally objective, and to deny their is any partisan political bias at work is only something a naive child might do.

One always has to keep in mind that in most cases, the bias is always way way way over to the left, and temper what you read with that knowledge. Otherwise, you’re merely a useful idiot. (to coin a Stalinism)

“Hi RB – can you just clarify why the leftist Jew is more or less different to leftists in general? ”

Because as a rule the left are generally against the existence of Israel. For example, many Jews (left wing I presume) voted for Obama, who is an enemy of Israel. I find it incongruous that Jews would support an ideology that in general would prefer to see their homeland disappear.
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March 22, 2009 4:38pm
TimG_Oz

Reid – Sorry yes – “indecipherable”

I think we are debating over the meaning of “Semite”

Wikipedia has this to say on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism

“This prejudice or hostility is usually characterized by a combination of religious, racial, cultural and ethnic biases. While the term’s etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, it has been used exclusively to refer to hostility toward Jews since its initial usage.”

What I found strange, was that GOH made a reference to his belief of evidence of Rabbinal influence (although he provided no evidence), then suggested that some would say that’s anti-semitism (who? why?). Who or what was he criticising (Rabbis, Soldiers or Israel???). I didn’t understand it.

You must admit though – GOH has NEVER posted anything BUT criticism of Israel, and I have posted a number of refutements to the arguements he has posted. I have not seen responses to my questions or refutements.

Are you and Goh mates? You often seem to post in tandem on these matters….
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March 22, 2009 4:48pm
dad4justice

“GOH has NEVER posted anything BUT criticism of Israel ”

He hates the thought of judgement day. They take White Trash first draft hey, hey, tour of duty.
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March 22, 2009 4:53pm
Redbaiter

“If you had any objectivity”

I’ve never claimed to be objective. I’m a right winger. Well, only in so much as I’m a right winger who basically just wants the left to leave me the fuck alone.

The fundamental difference between myself and a leftist Reid is that they want to impose their religion upon everybody, and use government to assist them in that objective, and I oppose the use of government to promote and enforce a political ideology.
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March 22, 2009 4:57pm
TimG_Oz

“Because as a rule the left are generally against the existence of Israel.”

Thanks RB for clearing that up – that is a very good point.

Interestingly, it wasn’t always the case. Traditionally, here in Australia, the Labor Party were very pro-Israel. The complaint from the liberals about Gough Witlam was that whatever he did, the immigrants voted for him. When NZ closed it’s borders after the war, (and the Libs said the Jews should be sent back to Europe), the ALP embraced them and the concept of Israel. Actually, even the Communist Soviet Union voted in the UN for the creation of the state of Israel.

Even now, the only Jewish MPs here are Labor. Notably Michael Danby, minister for Melbourne Ports. Labor however also has a huge Muslim constituency (that didn’t like Howard), that they occaisionly have to juggle.

The far left (Greens etc) have however been able to re-write their history books to now state they were “duped” into supporting Israel (this is exactly what John Minto has done). Ultimately they have applied the logic “My enemy’s enemy is my friend” (i.e. the enemy of Capitalism is my friend) no matter what they do to women, homosexuals, different religions etc.

Ultimately, the Jews have this crazy ideal of “peace” that is bred into them. As you know, the left no longer support “peace” – they recently added this concept of “justice”, which could also be synonymous with “retribution” (oops not so peaceful now).
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March 22, 2009 4:57pm
dad4justice

Justice lefty style has nothing to do with the truth, so why then do people swear on the Bible in court?
Why not swear on the book Absolute Power? Hi Helen!
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March 22, 2009 5:00pm
reid

Are you and Goh mates? You often seem to post in tandem on these matters….

No, I don’t know him, Tim.

I do agree with a lot of what he says though, although not everything. I understand from his posts he’s ex-military and I like listening to those people, they often bring a certain realism to the debate.

To accept any political story on the basis that what is written is totally objective, and to deny their is any partisan political bias at work is only something a naive child might do.

Personally RB I don’t give a fuck about the spin any journo places on a story because I only look at facts. When I link anything on this blog it’s usually because of the facts it points to not the angle the journo has taken. Sometimes it’s the latter but almost always it’s the former. Those facts in those stories including the one above, are easily verifiable, and that’s all I give a shit about. If the story is true, then draw your own conclusions from that, is my approach.

The fundamental difference between myself and a leftist Reid is that they want to impose their religion upon everybody, and use government to assist them in that objective, and I oppose the use of government to promote and enforce a political ideology.

RB that’s mainly why I also oppose lefties and I also think that sometimes lefties are correct in their perspective e.g. on Iraq and on the war in Gaza. After all, the average lefty is not

The fact my perspective coincides occasionally does not in my own opinion make me a lefty.
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March 22, 2009 5:16pm
slijmbal

Change of subject – did anyone read Laws’ attack on the phlegms today in the SST? The theme was that they probably weaken the environmentalist movement via their control and ban philosophy, anti-science approach and politics.

Even my politically ignorant mates remark that the phlegms are not what their moniker represents them to be.

The sad consequence of this that the real crap e.g. overfishing is not likely to get dealt to until they’re true disasters as by their failing it demeans all representation of environmental issues – never mind the obsession with AGW.
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March 22, 2009 5:16pm
greenfly

hey slimeball – isn’t it a laugh to think up a name that slurs those you don’t like and use it over and over! Oh, how we laugh at your use of ‘phlegms’ you are priceless, friend slimeball! You just wanna hope no one ever thinks of a funny moniker for you, slijmbal. 🙂
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March 22, 2009 5:30pm
john terris

THE GREAT RECESSION AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT REFORM.

There has to be a better way of doing local government in our two largest cities, Auckland and Wellington. That’s the premise on which the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance will shortly be reporting and although it has no brief to give attention to Wellington, there is no case for leaving Wellington out of any rationalisation proposals.

Wellingtonians and Aucklanders are equally affected by the economic downturn and the squeeze this is putting on businesses and households is getting to be too tough for some, with mortgage sales increasing and businesses folding. Local government is running out of the capacity to cut costs within its own limited means and so rationalisation of big ticket items like Transport and Roading, Water, Housing, Tourism and so on, across the boundaries of Greater Wellingon’s five local authorities, is an urgent priority. This doesn’t of course have to involve the creation of Super Cities to be achieved.

There are huge savings to be made by such a move. And the times we face mean competition for national resources, and unless Wellington can at last speak as One Wellington, we in the Capital are going to be left behind.

There is a fair amount of ego tripping and emotive blather coming from the status quo opponents of this idea, but then they are motivated purely by blatant self interest (their pay and conditions may be affected) and not by the good of their constituents, which should of course be the only relevant consideration. Local authorities have enjoyed autonomy for so long that they regard the rate take as their personal pocket money. Lavish food and drink, regular overseas travel, and double-dipping on salaries are all common-place, and this would be fine if the result was better performance, but its not.

Rationalisation is an idea whose time has come for local government in Wellington. Back in the days when communities were separated by distance, as they still are in rural areas, having separate local authorities in each area made sense. However, in regions like Wellington, there are certainly separate communities but they don’t coincide with local authority boundaries. Many people work in one city and live in another and the boundaries mean nothing.
Preserving the Local Voice is of course vital, but that won’t disappear if there is rationalisation. It just won’t be so expensive to maintain.
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March 22, 2009 5:59pm
slijmbal

heh greencry – tip – you could always try slimeball – might be a bit sophisticated for you though making such a logical conclusion.

You might want to get past your hissy fit and ponder the fact they are actually exacerbating the problem – unintended consequences and all that.

Mate and business partner of mine used to work for greenpeace in an earlier incarnation – we had a repeated conversation back in the mid and late 90’s about their use of bad science, misrepresentation etc – I predicted then this would actually hinder actions around us dealing to us gobbing on the planet. The phlegms behave worse than greenpeace ever did in this fashion. The implication if one actually is into environmental issues the last thing one should do is support the phlegms – sorry greens 🙂

There you are – toys back in the cot and try not throw them so far …. 🙁
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March 22, 2009 6:13pm
greenfly

Hell slijmbal, sorry! If I’d known that you were basing your opinions on conversations you had in the late 90’s I’d never have challenged the authority of your statements! God I’m so sorry. You are right! The Greens and the environment – no connection at all!
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March 22, 2009 6:57pm
slijmbal

Greencry – well done – you’ve ducked the actual point twice now – well done – back to points – the phelgms actually make it worse – discuss
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March 22, 2009 7:04pm
Redbaiter

“Those facts in those stories including the one above, are easily verifiable, and that’s all I give a shit about.”

What are those easily verifiable “facts” Reid??

A few unvalidated stories in a left wing paper from a left wing “journalist”, and a few soldiers wearing tasteless t-shirts.

Nothing that I would regard as “evidence” of anything of any significance, but then I’m not a blind gullible useful idiot.
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March 22, 2009 7:50pm
greenfly

slimeball – you’ve made no point. You mention a rivetting round of conversations you had with some jaded soul in the 90’s and cite the idiotic Laws as the inspiration for your half-arsed rant, but there is no substance to debate. You could though, put us on an even footing. Tell me the name of the party you voted for, so that I can devise a hilariously insulting name for them, so that if we do find something to debate about I can use that gleefully, as you have done. Looking foward to hearing back from you slimey balls 🙂
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March 22, 2009 7:57pm
wikiriwhis business

I just read today in the Sunday Herald Kiwi’s spend 63b a year and govts always plead poverty.

Can someone explain why this is.

I am utterly disgusted.
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March 22, 2009 8:18pm
slijmbal

Hi Green- lie

well done slimey balls is so much better than your previous posts – I see progress – keep up the good work – english might be your next accomplishment

I made the argument, pointedley, and repeatedly, that the green movement is actually damaging environmentalism – this is the point of every previous post – you are avoiding this point.

3 times the charm you avoided that point and responded to an ad hominem approach – yet again – well done – you prove that phlegms cannot be part of any rational discussion.

fyi – this jaded soul you refer to was the marketing manager for greenpeace. You obviously know him to make such comments as he’s actually one of the nicest people I’ve ever known – he decided to earn a pittance based on his beliefs and once that didn’t work went out in to the wider world – but I’m sure he’ll be happy to see his commitment measured in such a fashion as a jaded soul.

you really are a toad, a troll and an onanist – but thank you – it makes it so much easier to be against the phlegm party if you’re representative of them.

Try and respond to one of my points.
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March 22, 2009 8:53pm
big bruv

Don’t the Greens get most upset when you point out that they are no longer an environmental party, the desperation they display is amazing.

The bad news for them is that a lot of people are catching on to their lies and the trojan horse that is climate change.
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March 22, 2009 8:56pm
greenfly

slime (may I call you by the diminuative – it’s so much friendlier). It’s true, you did make an argument and good for you. I had and have still, no interest in responding to your claims. Your broad sweep against the Greens is a dull attack and has no debatable points that I would rise to. My reaction to your first post was simply to point out how much I admire and respect your clever argument technique of giving your opponents a hilarious disparaging name. Top strategy, slime and one that is admired by all, seemingly. But not me. That is my point. As for my being representative of the Green Party, I hardly think you’ll find that that is the case. I’m often reminded here that I’m not behaving as the Greens behave.
Just clarify one thing for me. I’ve read your posts over the past while and find you shallow to a fault. If ever you do present something interesting to discuss and are able to couch it in reasonable terms (I suppose that means no unnecessary ‘slagging off’, tough I know), then I’d be more than happy to straighten out your warped thinking. Til then, we could trade insults I suppose, but already I hear the bored groans of more able commenters.
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March 22, 2009 9:11pm
getstaffed

greenfly – if you so yearn for robust debate then how about you post up the content of the infamous EB pamphlet. Remember the one that you managed to secure a brace of in mint condition
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March 22, 2009 9:23pm
wikiriwhis business

Did anyone read the homeless issue in the Sunday Herald today.

Did you know John Banks was once homeless.

I always wondered why he had a soft spot for the street people.
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March 22, 2009 9:59pm
big bruv

wiki

Get his bio out from the Library, Banks had a shit of an early life, yes he does have a soft spot for street people but he is also the epitome of what you can do for yourself if you work hard and do not give up.

Of course that is the reason the left hate him with a passion.
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March 22, 2009 10:08pm
reid

What are those easily verifiable “facts” Reid??

Crikey RB, there are plenty of facts.

The most important one being that at this point, Israel’s military advocate general ordered the Israel Defense Forces to launch two official inquiries into the soldiers’ testimonies.

I doubt that would have happened if the lefty journos were just making it all up.

I must say RB, I find your general obduracy to recognise possibilities like this quite startling. It may well be that this story is a beat-up, at the end of the day. However, if it’s true, it does shed light worth shedding on the ME situation, if one wishes to penetrate to the truth of the matter without fear or prejudice.

To dismiss it out of hand from the get-go as mere lefty propaganda I think personally, is either blind ideology or profound stupidity, and you’re neither of those.
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March 22, 2009 11:08pm
wikiriwhis business

I would like to think ‘Absolute power’ had even a litle to do with Helen’s downfall

but I don’t think so

If people were reading ‘Howling at the moon’ publications would still be going
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March 22, 2009 11:22pm
Redbaiter

“I doubt that would have happened if the lefty journos were just making it all up.”

Why the hell not? They’ve done it often enough before. American soldiers accused of crimes in Iraq have been tried and found innocent when the treasonist media have condemned them as guilty from day one.

“To dismiss it out of hand from the get-go as mere lefty propaganda I think personally, is either blind ideology or profound stupidity, and you’re neither of those.”

I have not “dismissed it out of hand”. I have stated that what you refer to as facts may not be facts.

I have stated that all that there is to go on in the testimony of soldiers that may be true or may not be true.

I have said that this is a story by a leftist journalist in a leftist newspaper, (in both cases) and therefore one should be especially cautious.

I have said that some soldiers may indeed have been guilty of wearing such t shirts, but I have asked how many, and questioned whether it really points to anything significant.

I have accused you of being a useful idiot for being so ready to so enthusiastically promote what I believe is a story of doubtful merit.

I have attempted to alert you to the danger of being too gullible when the media is so universally dominated by left liberals.

All fair comment I reckon.

..and if you have a fact, put it here.
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March 22, 2009 11:45pm

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