General Debate 27 February 2009

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AG

Will someone PLEASE tell these guys that global warming is a myth? Sheesh … you’d think they’d never read a kiwiblog thread!

“A TWO-YEAR research effort by the world’s leading scientists has uncovered evidence of global warming’s widespread effect.
Snow and ice continue to decline in the Arctic and parts of Antarctica, affecting sea-level rise and weather patterns, as well as human, animal and plant life.
The findings of International Polar Year, a global research project involving 60 nations, were released yesterday. They confirmed that warming in Antarctica was greater than previously understood and the rate of ice loss from Greenland was increasing.”

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/poles-apart-but-warming-greater-than-thought-20090226-8j9g.html
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February 27, 2009 7:59am
Lee C

I think the problem for me is that the term ‘Global Wrming’ has been applied to a descriptor which come loaded with certain value-judgements. Like ‘Mini Ice-Age’ it is graphic, but does little to acknowledge the complexities surrounding the reality. So to discuss ‘Global Warming’ becomes an emotive situation instantly as people rush to defend their particular views. Views that are often aligned to a political mindset.
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February 27, 2009 8:14am
peteremcc

So let me get this straight…

A study finds that all the previous studies were wrong, and this proves global warming?

Doesn’t it just prove that we don’t fully understand it yet?

Oh wait, “the science is settled”.
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February 27, 2009 8:15am
MyNameIsJack

prior to the election, jonkey stated that, although not religious, he thought the 10 commandments a good way to live.

Which of the 10 will he invoke today at his job summit?

Furthermore, each xmas the media take great delight in printing the xmas lunch menu for prisons. Will they do the same for today’s talkfest?
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February 27, 2009 8:19am
peteremcc

8 and 10 would be a good start Jack.
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February 27, 2009 8:25am
MyNameIsJack

And they create jobs how, petermcc?

In fact, the breach of 8 is a major driver of the economy, and it could be said that a broad interpretation of 10 is what drives consumption.
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February 27, 2009 8:31am
peteremcc

You were asking which the government would invoke, not the general public

If the government didn’t steal and covert everyones assets, I think that would probably give quite a significant boost to the economy.
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February 27, 2009 8:44am
Razork

How can anyone take the Job summit seriously when Mr’ one dimensional; Mark Weldon is to chair it?
Seriously the only job he ever thinks of is his own.

But then again, there is a representative from the maori language commission; their attendance should help create jobs……
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February 27, 2009 8:46am
Redbaiter

“Will someone PLEASE tell these guys that global warming is a myth?”

Will someone tell commies like AGatha that even if one accepts what are probably the flawed and partisan outcomes of studies funded by discredited groups such as the United Nations, the fact that earth’s climate may warm up or cool down is not disputed.

The big lie is that any cooling or warming is directly directly rated to the activities of mankind.

This big lie is promoted by the left to allow them to take ultimate control over people’s lives- the objective the left have obsessed over ever since their sick ideology arose.

Man made climate change is a dangerous scam that has to be rejected on the basis that not to do so allows people like AGatha tremendous power over mankind.

You’d have to be as thick as three short planks not to understand that whatever the outcome of “climate change”, it couldn’t ever be any worse or damaging to the civilization than it being under the control of knuckle dragging barbaric leftists like Agatha and his cronies.
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February 27, 2009 8:57am
bharmer

# MyNameIsJack (265) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 2 Says:
February 27th, 2009 at 8:19 am

“… Furthermore, each xmas the media take great delight in printing the xmas lunch menu for prisons. Will they do the same for today’s talkfest?”

As I understand it they have fifteen minutes in which to acquire a beef panini and/or a vegetarian equivalent, and a bottle of water. They take it back to their groups and carry on working.

All credit for consistency with their rhetoric about the cost of conferences.

[DPF: Good God, someone on the organisation front has been smart. Paninis and water is a very good look]
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February 27, 2009 9:00am
goodgod

Oh wait, “the science is settled”.

yes, before this research, the science was settled. More research was required just to make sure. Now we don’t need anymore research on the matter until the science is settled, which it is now. So no more dissent please. It’s settled. Global warming is not a reasearch funding scam. New reasearch will start immediately to settle this matter.

🙄
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February 27, 2009 9:06am
wreck1080

Of course climate change is real.

Whether man contributes is debatable. I wouldn’t say it is a myth, just that it is a theory with no definite proof.

I am personally more worried about the next ice age…… I watched the history channel, New York was under 1km of ice….brrrr….and just a blink of the eye on a geological time scale.
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February 27, 2009 9:06am
Redbaiter

“The big lie is that any cooling or warming is directly directly rated to the activities of mankind.”

Sorry. Too hasty. This line should read-

“The big lie is that any cooling or warming is directly related to the activities of mankind.”
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February 27, 2009 9:07am
senzafine

As apocalyptic as he is, i really like this guy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2008/mar/01/scienceofclimatechange.climatechange
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February 27, 2009 9:19am
Murray

What the hell is up with throwing a rock through the bedroom window of two little girls (one who has cancer) because you want an H in Wanaganui?
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February 27, 2009 9:22am
Redbaiter

“What the hell is up with throwing a rock through the bedroom window of two little girls (one who has cancer) because you want an H in Wanaganui?”

Yeah what nauseating cowards.

Of course its not really about any H in Wanganui. Its who has power in society. Democratically elected representatives of the people or a bunch of yellow backed politically motivated unelected racists and communists.
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February 27, 2009 9:30am
Murray

Maybe they’re just frustrated from having really small penises.
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February 27, 2009 9:37am
big bruv

Hmm, Maori crime rates at an all time high, Maori health at an all time low, Maori jobless rates sky rocketing, Maori continue to kill their kids in shocking numbers and we see no action from the so called leaders.

Threaten to fight them on putting an “H” in Wanganui and they get all worked up.

Somebody has their priorities all fucked up.
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February 27, 2009 9:38am
casual watcher

Could P Goff be any more irrelevant to this country’s future if he tried ? He is an idiot stuck in a time warp. As for M Cullen switching horses – still stuck on the public teat and still the biggest c*** in the country. Have a good weekend and don’t get too wet !
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February 27, 2009 9:47am
KiwiGreg

Agree BB. Is this REALLY the “A” issue to be dealt with for Maori?
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February 27, 2009 9:54am
Murray

Apprently from my karma someone suports the throwing of rocks through little girls windows as a valid political argument.
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February 27, 2009 10:08am
toad

AG said: Will someone PLEASE tell these guys that global warming is a myth?

Rodney keeps trying, but he is wrong about everything.
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February 27, 2009 10:19am
ellgee

Comment about NZers optimism vs Americans, maybe it’s because of stories like this: http://bobisbankrupt.com/2009/02/23/how-i-got-here-a-journey-to-bk-and-beyond/
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February 27, 2009 10:20am
Redbaiter

“Rodney keeps trying, but he is wrong about everything.”

Here’s the first two sentences from that site-

“It’s official. ACT is the party of climate denial”

Soon as I read the phrase “climate denial” I stopped reading. Such words immediately identify the writer as a politically partisan fuckwit. A zealot with no real arguments. Utterly worthless.
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February 27, 2009 10:25am
lofty

Redbaiter, I am growing to like you, at least you say it like it is.
The tossers who troll here are generally worthless.
I get the feeling that DPF is getting his patience tested by them as well.
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February 27, 2009 10:42am
llew

“It’s official. ACT is the party of climate denial”

Gold! ACT are denying we have a climate. Heh, yeah right.
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February 27, 2009 10:47am
Gareth

Such words immediately identify the writer as a politically partisan fuckwit. A zealot with no real arguments.

But you didn’t read them, so how would you know?
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February 27, 2009 10:56am
Murray

Perhaps the people who do support terrorising infants as part of their political agenda would like to take this oportunity to explain their point of view publicly.
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February 27, 2009 11:03am
PhilBest

ellgee (6) Vote: 0 0 Says:

February 27th, 2009 at 10:20 am
“Comment about NZers optimism vs Americans, maybe it’s because of stories like this:” http://bobisbankrupt.com/2009/02/23/how-i-got-here-a-journey-to-bk-and-beyond/

It is a funny thing, ellgee, but all the statistics for household debt and net overseas debt per head of population, show NZ to be much worse than the USA; in fact we are second only to Iceland, and they went smash months ago.

Optimism does funny things. I personally think that it is optimism and blissful ignorance that have kept things “business as usual” in NZ up till now. But it is simply impossible for us to avoid a full-on depression sooner or later, we have not made anything like a fraction of the changes to our economic policy that will restore growth let alone get our economy strong enough to be paying our way out of debt. We can’t go on forever with high taxes and strangulated development and lavish welfarism and big, wasteful government; and optimism and blissful ignorance.

I do hope, though, that Kiwis are more optimistic and Americans are more pessimistic precisely because most people can see that the government throwing vast amounts of pork money that they have borrowed or printed, at all their favourite constituencies, is not the way out of depression. I hope that the Americans are already regretting their folly in not having Ron Paul or Fred Thompson as their President. McLame would have been little better than Obama.
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February 27, 2009 11:14am
PhilBest

I forgot to include in that comment above, that whereas the politicians and the media in the USA are flat out exploiting the crisis as an excuse to score political points and advance their programs, I suspect that in NZ, both main political parties and the media have a gentlemans agreement not to mention anything that would rock the boat. National could have slaughtered Labour over what they have done to the economy and they may yet need to do so.

But it is all very well National thinking that they can get away with perpetuating blissful ignorance so as to keep the economy up the right way, it is simply impossible for us to avoid a full-on depression sooner or later, we have not made anything like a fraction of the changes to our economic policy that will restore growth let alone get our economy strong enough to be paying our way out of debt. We can’t go on forever with high taxes and strangulated development and lavish welfarism and big, wasteful government; and optimism and blissful ignorance. When the crash does come, National will be obliged to sheet as much of the blame as possible home to Labour; but thinking Kiwis will be asking then, why didn’t you tell us about all this sooner?

We are in a frightful bind because of the media’s demonising over the last decade, of all the things we desperately need to do now. If the media was any sort of honest impartial watchdog, if they employed any remotely intelligent analytical investigative journalists with any economic nous, they would have been running articles about the looming crisis years ago and demanding of the government of the day that they act a bit more fiscally responsibly, instead of kneejerk condemnations of “secret agendas” on the part of the opposition that have actually proved to be desperately necessary now; only the Nats have one arm tied behind their backs now on this secret agenda.

The Herald editorial the other day was a step in the right direction. Our media needs to do a massive soul search right now, and admit loud and clear that they have been 100% wrong in the past about what a responsible government and the underlying economy can and cannot afford; and that it is a question of affordability rather than how hard a politicians heart is or whether he has mates whose pockets he wishes to line. It is a question of all our pockets now, and the pockets of our children and grandchildren, and whether there will be anything in them.
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February 27, 2009 11:54am
gd

the Cato Institute has just released a letter signed by 200 economists which is part says

“lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth in teh current climate”

As you humble poster and others have been saying for years and years Governments cant fix every economic problem by taxing and spending and legislating and regulating wealth

Not that its stopped these dimbulbs from trying and failing her and around the world.

Unless Joe and Joesse Public have money in their pocket a job and are confident of keeping their job they wont spend or save and nothing but nothing will change that.

It aint and never was rocket science and it sure dont need a taking head festival like the one today

All we will get is the same old same old blah blah blah form the same old tired suspects
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February 27, 2009 11:56am
dave strings

But Mate – She’ll be right!

The mortgage on the batch will get paid from the wife’s part time job at the clothing factory
I’ll give the big house back to the bank who loaned me too much money for it and then buy it back at half price in the auction
My job’s safe, as long as people can borrow money they’ll want to have advice on how to invest it in the stock market
Best of all, when the crap really hits the fan it’ll be time for another election and we can get Auntie Helen back to get the money off the rich-pricks (you know, the ones that get hundreds of millions for stuff that might have happened a century or so ago,) to keep us poor whities in grog, fags and chips.
Like I said – She’ll be right!

sarcasm is the highest forms of wit, albeit the lowest form of humour.
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February 27, 2009 12:01pm
Pascal

Gareth:

But you didn’t read them, so how would you know?

Climate. Denial. Anybody using that phrase to describe a questioning viewpoint indicates they have already closed their mind to anything but political ideology.
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February 27, 2009 12:12pm
grumpyoldhori

PhilBest, Mclame and the god botherer, it would be worth it for the laugh, what with Mclame spouting along with the god botherer that they had to confront Russia in Russia.
I notice the US military are none too keen on that idea, saying how unfair it was that those damn russkies had the ability to knock their Awaacs aircraft down.

As for Key, maybe he should but cut back on the she’ll be right and spell out what will happen if a trade war takes place around the globe.
And while he is at it tell some people what absolute fools they were to believe that house prices would never fall.
Idiots who bought SUVs, had overseas holidays etc on the fool’s gold which was the book value of their house rising.
Now some are in negative equity and we have so called conservatives whining that the tax payer should pay for their mistakes.
They sound like labour voters.
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February 27, 2009 12:18pm
MyNameIsJack

The flood of migrants across the Tasman continues unabated, with latest figures showing New Zealanders leaving at a rate approaching 1000 a week, breaking a 20-year record.

yep, those first 100 days sure proved a winner. 🙂
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February 27, 2009 12:26pm
PhilBest

Brilliant comment from one Colby Cosh (is that his real name?) at Canada’s “National Post”:

“Watching Boomers In Turmoil”

“……These are people who started their working lives at a time when labour unions were strong, taxpayers outnumbered retirees nearly 10 to one, housing was as cheap as borscht and the basic personal exemption covered most of a living wage. They congratulated themselves on building an elaborate “social safety net” at the expense of their children. Their great numbers have allowed their preferences and superstitions to dominate culture and media. They’re the ones who burned through tonnes of pot and then launched a War on Drugs when they grew bored with it; they drove mighty-bowelled Mustangs and Thunderbirds in their youth, and only started worrying about the environment when they no longer needed a capacious backseat to fornicate in; they espoused and took full advantage of sexual liberation, but were safely hors de combat by the time AIDS reared its head. The first time I see one shopping for dog food, I doubt I’ll be able to suppress a laugh……

“……the lesson that economic growth is a contingent accomplishment is one that every generation must learn. Why are young people so vulnerable to preposterous political ideas? Why is it the young, most egregiously, who romanticize poverty, cultural backwardness and unspoiled nature?

It’s because they regard sound money, good jobs and the benefits of the consumer society as unstated axioms; they have no sense that these things must be perpetually fought for, and can be lost in the blink of an eye. Well, they’ll know now. And the knowledge will serve them……”

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/02/24/colby-cosh-watching-boomers-suffer-is-worth-a-recession.aspx
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February 27, 2009 12:31pm
grumpyoldhori

gd, I have no problem with a pure market lead economy, trouble is so called conservatives still want it both ways, low tax and the government to help THEM when they believe THEY need it.
So a question, with the yanks being a lot more right wing than us, should their government have taken a complete hands off approach to their banks.
In other words should they have allowed them to fall over ?
Or is corporate welfare needed at times ?
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February 27, 2009 12:35pm
gd

big bruv how dare you speak the truth about the (cough) indigenous peoples You should know by now that we whiteys must pay homage to the (cough) indigenous peoples as we are the direct cuase of their problems.

I am personally responsible for at least half the (cough) indigenous peoples who occupy cells at Paremoremo.

You too must cleanse your conscious and admit your part in the statistical state of the (cough) indigenous peoples
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February 27, 2009 12:41pm
PhilBest

From “Global Warming Hoax”

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/comment.php?comment.news.107.1

“…….We decided to take a look at the total month end numbers for January 1980 and January 2009. In case you’ve noticed a little slight of hand we did indeed change the year to one year later. Let it show that we did this to prove that it you can use this data just about any way you want (because frankly any global changes are not very dramatic), and if we had satellites up back in the 1930’s we probably would have seen far less sea ice than what we’re looking at now. So how does today compare to 1980?

1980 Southern Hemisphere = 4.7 million sq km
1980 Northern Hemisphere = 15.0 million sq km
Total = 19.7 million sq km
2009 Southern Hemisphere = 5.8 million sq km
2009 Northern Hemisphere = 14.1 million sq km
Total = 19.9 million sq km

January in the year 2009 showed 200,000 sq km more sea ice than 1980…….”
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February 27, 2009 12:48pm
gd

grumpoldhori

As a disciple of the pure free market what we have is the the result of something else.

This is the toxic combination of bad governance by legislators and regulators that allowed bad bankers and others to rort the system for their own self interest.

Legislators and regulators have proved incapable of creating settings that allow for moral and ethical operators to maxmise their delivery to the market and at the same time to punish the immoral and unethical

Now you cant IMHO legislate and regulate for moral and ethical market behaviour BUT you can legislate and regulate to punish those who dont follow the rules

thats why I favour the 10 Commandments as the basis of our law with Sharia penalites for those who transgress.

Now Thain, Fred the Shred, Fulda et al would be in some difficulty walking around with no hands if I had my way and it would send a powerful message to those who are thinking of following their behaviours.

Our government has still to learn. Take Dan McEwan bankrupt of thisn parish and no doubt with millions of dollars stashed away in Family trusts and other legal vehicles because of the reasons I raise above.

The biggest problem we have is the legislators the regulators and the Courts do not have the same moral and ethical compass settings as the majority of the citizens

And until we force these noddies to close the gaps the pure free market will remain the myth it always has been
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February 27, 2009 12:52pm
PhilBest

GrumpyOldHori, when you talk like that, you are definitely on my side.

Corporate Welfare is wrong, wrong, wrong, and it will certainly end in disaster this time.

All that tax money and borrowed money and printed money being poured into Wall Street will be flowing into the pockets of smart investors like George Soros, you can bet your boots. It is just a question of who knows about it and what their interests are. That goes for the politicians who are setting up their citizens for this scam, and that goes for Obama, too, whether you like it or not; the biggest amount of money ever raised by a US presidential candidate sure did not come from the ghettoes.
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February 27, 2009 12:54pm
PhilBest

GrumpyOldHori, I’d love to know what you think of THIS article:

“What About The Poor”? By Barry Loberfeld.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=A027267D-1F45-4226-8289-8779A520AF2A

When you have big government and “tax and spend”, you can bet your boots that most of the spending ends up being captured by the people who actually do not need it, and what is more, most of the laws and regulations that get passed tend to impact disparately on the poor. If the poor really understood this, they would not get sucked in by the wrong politics all the time.
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February 27, 2009 12:59pm
gd

A colleague just back from the US of A told me this about the unintended consquenses of dumbarse pollies.

A guy with a business making dashboards for Ford required 15 chips in each one. He used to source them from China.

Nancy Polenski whose beat is Silicone valley decreed that he had to buy America. He can source supplies of 14 but not of the vital 15th to fill the Ford order.

See how dumbarse pollies really are and why I and others with a brain treat them with contempt.

their knowalls who know jack shit
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February 27, 2009 1:01pm
lofty

gd, that reminds me of a quote in David Nivens book The Moons a Balloon… in which some czech film director got mad with the cast and said ” you think I know fuck nothing!, well I can tell you, I know fuck all”
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February 27, 2009 1:35pm
Ross Miller

Bumper sticker seen in Kerikeri yesterday ….”Goff Drops”
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February 27, 2009 1:39pm
lofty

Is it just me or are all the lefty trolls out lately?
Must be hurtin over the good news poll alright, how does the red hot poker feel trolls?
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February 27, 2009 1:54pm
Komata

gd – been there, done that!!

FWIW, back in the 60’s when protectionism was rife in NZ, Pye (NZ) Ltd(remember them?) had created a very nice little industry making stero record players. They made most of the components but needed to import an important part from AWA Ltd in OZ.

To do so they applied to HM Customs in Wellington for an import license

Customs said, NO, can’t do it, won’t grant you an import license – we have to protect our own local industry!

Interesting to see that beuracracy is still as dangerous and moronic as ever!!
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February 27, 2009 4:06pm
KiwiGreg

How did Nancy Pelosi make a Ford parts supplier buy parts from US suppliers? She’s only a congresswoman (albeit House Leader) and such a rule would be in breach of the US’s WTO obligations. Ford is the only “US” car compant not receiving government loans (yet).

Who remembers NZ when you needed a plane ticket as proof to get foreign currency? When everyone going overseas had a shopping list of clothes and appliances to bring back? When only farmers and the government had new cars?
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February 27, 2009 4:13pm
MyNameIsJack

Looks like Sony has found the way to get us all out of this shit by selling us more shit we don’t need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AyVh1_vWYQ&eurl=http://blogs.theage.com.au/lastlaugh/archives/2009/02/endoftheweek_fu_52.html&feature=player_embedded
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February 27, 2009 4:18pm
Paul Marsden

Murray (2437) Vote: 13 2 Says:

February 27th, 2009 at 9:22 am
What the hell is up with throwing a rock through the bedroom window of two little girls (one who has cancer) because you want an H in Wanaganui?

Murray. ‘H’ is for hori.
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February 27, 2009 5:22pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Had a dose of AGW last month.

All the scientists in all those countries also stated as ‘settled science’ that the Millenium Bug was the biggest danger to world peace and harmony EVER.

Sars, Bird Flu, Aids, Rabies, all touted as being apocalyptic.

And still life goes on.

UK to impose 500,000 extra CCTV cameras to combat Climate Change.
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February 27, 2009 5:40pm
dad4justice

Is Russell Norman glued onto the TV3 satellite dish?
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February 27, 2009 6:08pm
Hagues

MyNameIsJackOff “The flood of migrants across the Tasman continues unabated, with latest figures showing New Zealanders leaving at a rate approaching 1000 a week, breaking a 20-year record.

yep, those first 100 days sure proved a winner.”

Yeah good one. Those figures are for the YEAR ended January. So that covers the last 10 months of the Clark govt as well as the first 2 months of National. I wonder what part had the hightest level of exits?
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February 27, 2009 6:38pm
goodgod

If the best idea at the job summit was to end tax cuts, build a government funded cycle way and put people into government paid training then we are well and truly fucked for leadership in this matter. These dolts don’t even know what it is people do when they get off work! And there was John Key, nodding his head in agreement with it like the stuffed dog in the back window of your nanas car. Unbelieveable.
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February 27, 2009 7:33pm
Redbaiter

Very good stuff Mr. Best. Especially the post at 11:54.
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February 27, 2009 9:04pm

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