General Debate 26 February 2009

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greenfly

Lately, Bill English is looking like the ‘Prince of Doom’. Lighten up Bill, you wanted the job!

[DPF: Almost anything goes in general debate, but this is a blatant troll. Next time is demerits]
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February 26, 2009 8:22am
coventry

Lately, GreenFly is looking like a ‘desperate leftie git’, Harden up fly or it’s the RAID for you.
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February 26, 2009 8:30am
Ross Miller

I see on a previous thread that Trevor Mallard has become a contributor. Is it because ….

1 Kiwiblog has more Gravitas
2 Better class of posters compared with the Sub-Standard
3. He has been banned from the Sub-Standard
4. He is suffering from ADD
5. He is a closet Tory

or a combination of the first four (forget 5, realms of fantasy stuff)
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February 26, 2009 8:48am
coventry

RossM.

6. Like Roger Douglas he has seen the light and is shifting from the Dark Side ?
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February 26, 2009 9:01am
Murray

Lately greenfly has been looking like hes hes the front runner in the closely fought bigest leftie denial monkey competition.
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February 26, 2009 9:10am
Murray

7. He was always a deep cover plant of the VRWC and we’ve decided to bring him in from the cold. (Payment drop was in the usual place Trev.)
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February 26, 2009 9:11am
mattyroo

Looks like Ron Paul “gets it”: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-833

“A BILL

To abolish the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks, to repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ‘Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act’.

SEC. 2. FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD ABOLISHED.

(a) In General- Effective at the end of the 1-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and each Federal reserve bank are hereby abolished.

(b) Repeal of Federal Reserve Act- Effective at the end of the 1-year period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Federal Reserve Act is hereby repealed.

(c) Disposition of Affairs-

(1) MANAGEMENT DURING DISSOLUTION PERIOD- During the 1-year period referred to in subsection (a), the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System–

(A) shall, for the sole purpose of winding up the affairs of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks–

(i) manage the employees of the Board and each such bank and provide for the payment of compensation and benefits of any such employee which accrue before the position of such employee is abolished; and

(ii) manage the assets and liabilities of the Board and each such bank until such assets and liabilities are liquidated or assumed by the Secretary of the Treasury in accordance with this subsection; and

(B) may take such other action as may be necessary, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Treasury, to wind up the affairs of the Board and the Federal reserve banks.

(2) LIQUIDATION OF ASSETS-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Director of the Office of Management and Budget shall liquidate all assets of the Board and the Federal reserve banks in an orderly manner so as to achieve as expeditious a liquidation as may be practical while maximizing the return to the Treasury.

(B) TRANSFER TO TREASURY- After satisfying all claims against the Board and any Federal reserve bank which are accepted by the Director of the Office of Management and Budget and redeeming the stock of such banks, the net proceeds of the liquidation under subparagraph (A) shall be transferred to the Secretary of the Treasury and deposited in the General Fund of the Treasury.

(3) ASSUMPTION OF LIABILITIES- All outstanding liabilities of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Federal reserve banks at the time such entities are abolished, including any liability for retirement and other benefits for former officers and employees of the Board or any such bank in accordance with employee retirement and benefit programs of the Board and any such bank, shall become the liability of the Secretary of the Treasury and shall be paid from amounts deposited in the general fund pursuant to paragraph (2) which are hereby appropriated for such purpose until all such liabilities are satisfied.

(d) Report- At the end of the 18-month period beginning on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of the Treasury and the Director of the Office of Management and Budget shall submit a joint report to the Congress containing a detailed description of the actions taken to implement this Act and any actions or issues relating to such implementation that remain uncompleted or unresolved as of the date of the report.”
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February 26, 2009 9:11am
dime

Greenlfy needs to become the greens chief strategist.. or labours!

Just keep chipping away at voters with blind arrogance… glorious.

Keep up the personal attacks on opposition MP’s! It clearly worked for Labour last election. People are sick of nice! they want low down, scumbag politicians i tells ya!
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February 26, 2009 9:29am
greenfly

dime – I’m no strategist, I’ve just been noticing that Bill is looking increasingly gloomy. I’ve known him personally in brighter times and feel for him, now that he’s under a cloud.
Personal attacks? Hardly. Gentle ribbing is how I see it. Y’all are so sensitive when your stars are lampooned.
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February 26, 2009 9:54am
Murray

We can see you’re no strategist.

Afew other characterstics are equally self evident.

Your gentle ribbing gives us no pleasure.
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February 26, 2009 10:02am
dime

greenfly – hes looking gloomy?

what would you prefer? an arrogant little man with a smirk on his face telling us over and over we need to raise taxes?

oh yeah.. ya would!
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February 26, 2009 10:40am
MyNameIsJack

an arrogant little man with a smirk on his face…

So Peter Costello is moving to NZ?
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February 26, 2009 10:43am
dime

heh you have to go overseas to find a big enough prat to compare to cullen
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February 26, 2009 10:58am
greenfly

dime – I’d like to see Bill in the bloom of good health. He’s got an important job to do. If he’s all morose and thinking “GULP!” at every turn, his health will suffer. We need him to be on top of his game when he’s labouring under a leaden economic sky. He described Key as ‘bouncing from cloud to cloud’- perhaps he could do with a little ‘bounce’ himself.
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February 26, 2009 11:11am
big bruv

“heh you have to go overseas to find a big enough prat to compare to cullen”

Oh I don’t know about that Dime, there are a few home grown ones who compare very well.
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February 26, 2009 11:12am
Murray

Yeah Cullen certainly is the bigest floater in this septic tank dime.
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February 26, 2009 11:34am
pdm

greenfly it is no wonder Bill is gloomy after what he took over from Labour. Here are just a few to start the ball rolling:

1. A rusty trainset which Cullen paid too much for.
2. Billions of dollars underfunding of ACC.
3. Unfunded infrastructure promises.

Others will have plenty of others I am sure.
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February 26, 2009 11:58am
PhilBest

Stuff the negative karma, I agree with Mattyroo and Ron Paul and the Ludwig Von Mises school of economics. A gold standard and a completely free market in legal tender is the way to go. The origins of this crisis are in fact political monopoly central reserve banking and the abandonment of the gold standard.

Follow Peter Cresswell’s “Not PC” site for a while, (included in DPF’s “must read” blog list), check out everything he links to. You’ll get a b. good economic education.
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February 26, 2009 12:09pm
Ratbiter

I received the following in a FW e mail this morning:

The Urine test
THIS GUY MAKES A GOOD POINT.
This was written by a rigworker off the Taranaki Coast – I think he makes a lot of sense!

I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit.
In order to earn that pay cheque, I work on a rig for a drilling contractor.
I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I have no problem.
What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don’t have to pass a urine test.
Shouldn’t one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand that I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on their ass drinking beer and smoking dope.
Could you imagine how much money the government would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a welfare cheque?

Please pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don’t.
Hope you will pass it along though, because something has to change in NZ, and soon
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February 26, 2009 12:14pm
freethinker

Shit Ratty either you are talking more sense or I have been misunderstanding you in the past, as for the second time today I have to totally agree with you and wouldn’t that plan just increase the employment of Urine testers and cause the unemployemt of the drug dealers – wow what a win win.
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February 26, 2009 12:59pm
gd

Barry Obama is looking like the Emperor with no clothes His latest missive has gone down like a bucket of cold sick Questions are being asked as to where is the detail Where is the recovery plan.

So far its all been slick words and throwing money around like a drunken sailor. But no specifics.

Its starting to look like not only Barry but all the leaders are members of WHERETHEFUCKAREWE tribe
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February 26, 2009 1:12pm
dime

Greenfly – thats the first decent post youve made. usually you come across as someone that wants this Govt to fail..
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February 26, 2009 1:16pm
baxter

OBAMA’s promise to to reduce the US deficit by half in his first term reminds me of the statements of similar credibility by a former leader of this country who promised to propel N.Z. into the top half of the OECD ( in fact NZ slipped several places) and also that she would lead the country to carbon neutral status, in fact carbon emissions grew annually. Strangely her promises enabled her to win two further elections and a special medal as a saviour of the planet…I wonder if the American voters are as naive and stupid as the Kiwi ones.
RATTY that rig worker should be at the jobs talkfest tomorrow
DPF….I hope you are charging that BROWN troll for the advertising.
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February 26, 2009 1:29pm
greenfly

dime – then you have misread everything I’ve ever posted. I would never wish a government to fail. We’re all in this together etc. I am dissapointed though, that this is the only comment of mine that you’ve thought decent Must be grateful for small mercies I suppose. 🙂
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February 26, 2009 1:45pm
Ratbiter

Freethinker – even lefties like me don’t necessarily want to pay bums for sitting around smoking dope and drinking beer when there’s no reason for them not to be working. Amazing huh? Who would have thought…
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February 26, 2009 1:48pm
dime

greenfly – you tend to come across as an asshole.. although, i havent seen a brownlee/gas price comment today.

toad on the other hand seems to be getting cranky! usually a nice guy. maybe hes getting tired from defending some of the green mp’s.. not as easy job!
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February 26, 2009 1:55pm
lofty

greenfly & toad are playing nice cop bad cop, don’t get sucked in by them.
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February 26, 2009 1:58pm
Fisiani

Today is a great day
100 days of action in contrast to

THE NINE WASTED YEARS.

Slip this phrase in to blog comments as often as required .
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February 26, 2009 2:40pm
greenfly

Lofty – Phew! Thanks for the warning!
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February 26, 2009 3:31pm
PhilBest

Hey, there you go again, Ratbiter/RRM, surprising me by saying something I would be pleased to have said.
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February 26, 2009 3:45pm
MyNameIsJack

Ratbiter (630) 5 1 Says:

February 26th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I received the following in a FW e mail this morning:

The Urine test
THIS GUY MAKES A GOOD POINT.
This was written by a rigworker off the Taranaki Coast – I think he makes a lot of sense!

Actually, it is a much circulated piece of crap from the USof A.

Kiwis don’t get “welfare cheques”, nor do they sit on “asses” (except the christians at easter).

As to the rest of the tosh, well, that’s all it is. Tosh! A cry from the priveleged that someone somewhere might be getting something the priveleged doesn’t think thay should get.

Your fictitious letter writer may be happy to rollover for a urine test, but I don’t see why I should. No one takes the piss out of jack.
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February 26, 2009 4:18pm
PhilBest

virtualmark (621) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says: (From earlier thread)
February 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

“PhilBest … I’d caution against seeing derivatives as the bogeyman. My experience is that the people railing against derivatives don’t fully understand how they’re used. I think it’s important to keep in mind a few things:

First, a derivative does not directly affect the underlying asset. Just because the derivatives become worthless doesn’t mean the underlying company/commodity has changed value at all.

Second, I’d caution against the idea that “the value of all the derivatives of, say, Microsoft, is worth far more than the value of all Microsoft’s shares, so how can all the derivatives ever be honoured”. The straightforward answer is that they are never expected to all be honoured. Many of them will end up with zero values.

Third, remember that while investors have overall payed billions for derivatives they paid that money to someone. The money didn’t disappear. It’s still in circulation. It’s just that some people made a bad bet and lost their money to someone else. Or, more sophisticated terms, they paid an insurance premium and didn’t need to claim…..”

Yes, that agrees with what I have been saying. The point I have been trying to make, is that there will be derivatives that “…are never expected to all be honoured….” (as you so admirably put it) that ARE being honoured, on the taxpayers dime, as the bailouts and recapitalisations and the state of the institutions being bailed out are so opaque. I honestly think that this is fraud on the taxpayer, for which I blame the politicians who so blithely commit taxpayers money in such huge swaths, so deep in their conceits about “saving the people from capitalism”. This is not capitalism, it is very clever “capitalists” exploiting the opportunities presented by socialist politics yet again. I always believed that George Soros has liberally bankrolled Leftwing politics all over the world for years now, having his eye on these sort of advantages.
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February 26, 2009 4:25pm
PhilBest

Sorry, I should have included the question, what if the liabilities of these financial institutions that are swallowing taxpayers money are so great under derivatives exposure and the like, that they are going to fail anyway and the only question is how many trillions of taxpayers money the clever uber-investors will have bled out of the system before the American people demand a halt?
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February 26, 2009 4:35pm
PhilBest

Dick Morris:

“Obama’s Bold Gamble: An Enormous Bet On Big Government”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02252009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/bams_bold_gamble_156775.htm

“…… The speech made it apparent that the Obama administration’s response to this crisis will either go down in history as a success that Americans will admire for decades, or become a case study in economic failure that students and scholars will study and pick apart for generations.

The speech began where it needed to begin, with a bold affirmation of faith in the rebuilding and recovery of America. Then Obama listed some of the more popular parts of his spending-stimulus program.

The specific items he recalled from the package were attractive. But Americans know, by now, that much of the program (largely unmentioned last night) is a mountain of pork – money spent for the sake of spending it to spur recovery, not to achieve particularly important ends.

Obama did not seek to justify the spending for the specific purposes to which it is dedicated. Courageously, he said that he passed it because it will work. For his sake, it better. But I doubt it.

Then he spoke unconvincingly about his bank-rescue plan…..

“……. Can all this work? Can Obama get banks to lend even as he terrorizes them? Can he get the engines of our economy back to work even as he announces that he’ll be taking away more of their earnings? Can he persuade the American people to accept bureaucrats deciding their health-care choices? And can his economic stimulus survive a huge increase in the payroll tax on the most productive citizens?

Probably not;Obama likely won’t succeed. This speech will be viewed as his high-water mark – the time before we came to realize how flawed is his understanding of economics and how supreme is his commitment to expanded spending. It will be seen as a sort of age of innocence before we realized…..”
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February 26, 2009 4:47pm
dc

Drawn by a strange force they could neither resist nor describe, millions of Americans reportedly dropped what they were doing Tuesday and, acting as if by instinct alone, gathered into one massive nationwide breadline.

According to witnesses, citizens across the country exited their homes in near unison, leaving behind growing stacks of bills, empty kitchen cupboards, and what was once a life of comfort to form the spontaneous, 2,000-mile-long queue.

Source
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February 26, 2009 5:45pm
greenfly

Lately, Bill English is looking like the ‘Prince of Doom’. Lighten up Bill, you wanted the job!

[DPF: Almost anything goes in general debate, but this is a blatant troll. Next time is demerits]

Almost anything goes in general debate … except lighthearted digs at your friends David? Are you losing your sense of perspective? Bill (whom I know quite well, you’d be surprised to know) does look glum at the moment! I care not one wit for your demerits, but you’d plummet in my estimation if you started to through your weight around for such trifles.

[DPF: Actually I saw Bill today, and he looked no such thing. And as I said, you are showing all the behaviour of being here just to troll, and disrupt threads. You should not be worried about just getting demerits. I can short circuit my own system and just boot you for good. I’d just have to somehow live with your disappointment. ]
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February 26, 2009 9:02pm
wikiriwhis business

Probably not;Obama likely won’t succeed. This speech will be viewed as his high-water mark”

I agree. If Obama’s impetus runs out, it will be after this quarter.

I also wonder if the military weren’t surprised they received no attention. Not a jot to my understanding. Haven’t finished taped speech yet.

They were the first sector I was thinking of and wouldn’t it be a pardigm in the US when the military are ignored.
There’s really nothing to add about that. Except the l;ack of smiles back in the officers club, but surely not unexpected.

Govt pay cuts would’ve affected top brass as well.

I would think the Obama administration’s aim is to whittle foreign affairs right back to Israel and Palestine, like the good old days.
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February 26, 2009 9:17pm
lofty

DPF, boot the greenfly, it is a troll of the worst order.
Like i have said before, ” a droll troll”
Mischief maker & weasel.
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February 27, 2009 7:59am
wikiriwhis business

Cad & scallywag

But so are others David has tolerated for many years

So what ya gonna do? As Homer would say.
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February 27, 2009 8:23am
lofty

Yeah I guess you are right wiki, it would only come back with a new persona.
Hey greenfly, stick around, bugger it.
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February 27, 2009 8:31am
clintheine

Greenfly, Bill is smiling inside, like most New Zealanders. After all we’re rid of Labour and your party is about to vote in an extremist as co-leader. Note I say extremist without saying who will be elected – as they all seem to fit into the category well.
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February 27, 2009 10:27am

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