General Debate 21 February 2009

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colinm

Just reading in the Herald about a primary school asking for $950.00 in fees and donations. That’s quite a lot of money for “free” education. Which brings me to another point(s).
Why is it that I pay a substantial amount in taxes ostensibly for running the country yet if I want anything from a govt department I have to pay?
Why is it that I have to pay for the council building inspector at an hourly rate at least twice (around 75 bucks here) what they are paid?
Yes, I do understand the concept of user pays, but haven’t I already paid through PAYE and RWT and …, and …
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February 21, 2009 9:02am
billyborker

Last week a lot of posters were giving stick to the UK govt for stopping Dutch MPO Geert Wilders entering the country, DPF among them.

How do you feel about another bar to entry to the UK?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5767077.ece

Can you justify barring both? Neither? One but not the other?
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February 21, 2009 9:02am
big bruv

billy

You can justify neither, freedom of speech is a basic human right.
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February 21, 2009 9:08am
billyborker

Agree bigbruv, I wasn’t stating my case, simply asking the question.

I agree with the opinions of one, but not the other. I do support the right of both to make fools of themselves, if they so wish, or to express their views in a forthright manner.
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February 21, 2009 9:11am
greenfly

“Crusher” Collins should have kept her lips pressed closely together. She’s stuffed the Corrections issue. All quiet now though – (hushed, that is)
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February 21, 2009 9:12am
billyborker

Three proposals to reduce the crime rate.

Step one: Transfer the mentally ill who are in prisons to hospitals instead. The first thing that strikes you when you visit British prisons – as I do – is the sheer number of people there who are insane and barely know where they are. In the bowels of Wormwood Scrubs I found a man in his sixties who had been diagnosed with severe brain damage. He thought I was his father. He wasn’t so unusual. Michael Spurr, the operational head of the Prison Service, admits that 10 per cent of the prison population is “seriously mentally ill”. Almost everyone in the field considers this a serious underestimate.

This isn’t just a scandal – it makes you less safe. If you take somebody who is paranoid or delusional and lock them in a tiny cell without proper treatment, they get rapidly worse. A recent study by Professor David James found when you send a mentally ill person to jail rather than hospital, they become 50 per cent more likely to reoffend. That’s a lot of muggings and attacks that will be wiped out by proper treatment.

Step two: Increase methadone and heroin prescriptions for chronic addicts. If you fall into heroin addiction, your body becomes so ravaged by the need for the drug that you will do anything for your next fix. That’s why a majority of the property crimes and sex-for-cash are carried out by junkies. Providing rehab is important – but the drug is so addictive that even the best treatment centres in the world fail 80 per cent of the time. So for most addicts, the only safe option is for doctors to give them a legal prescription – which halts their crime overnight. The Cheshire Drug Squad found in the 1980s that the presence of a heroin-prescribing clinic on their patch caused a 94 per cent drop in property crimes.

Step three: Bring rehabilitation back to our prisons. Today, 60 per cent of prisoners have a reading ability below that of a six-year-old child – and most leave having learned nothing. How can we be surprised that only 25 per cent stay away from crime when they are released? There are some brilliant rehabilitation programmes, but they are underfunded and sparse. Joe Baden has founded one of the best, the Open Book Project. When he was imprisoned in the seventies facing armed robbery charges, Baden was taught creative writing – and it inspired him to go straight. Today he goes back into prisons to help inmates get academic qualifications, supporting them at every step. He has taken prisoners from illiteracy to gaining degrees – and only two per cent of the people he works with re-offend. Yet he warns that “most rehabilitation today is just crap”.

From the UK, but no less applicable to NZ. But what do we have here? A minister who has no clue. A government that is supporting tougher punishment and denying liability.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-crime-is-going-to-rise–unless-we-get-liberal-1627008.html
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February 21, 2009 9:14am
billyborker

Is there no end to the stupidity of people bending over backwards to appease Jewish prissiness?

Internet auction house eBay has temporarily renamed the yellow stars it uses to evaluate sellers on its French site after a complaint that the symbol had anti-semitic connotations.

The move came after French eBay user Dominique Bellamy wrote to the company earlier this month to point out that during World War II the Nazis made Jews wear a yellow star on their clothes as a discriminatory mark.

Fucking moron, there’s yellow stars everywhere. Almost every star in a child’s picture book is yellow. Stars in the night sky are yellow.
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February 21, 2009 9:18am
colinm

“Police banned from brothel raids”
Hmmm, Our police force in concert with immigration officials, were performing illegal breaking and entering and searches of brothels whilst being filmed for a reality TV show.
Gosh, and golly.
And you trust these guys to be responsible with our DNA samples!
Absolutely hilarious!
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February 21, 2009 9:29am
dad4justice

The New Zealand police are moronic fools. All the intelligent cops left the force years ago.
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February 21, 2009 9:31am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

To all the Hurricanes fans who said “hard luck” after the game last night –
Thank you…..The Highlanders didnt deserve to win, but thank you for being gracious winners.

To the guy who turned around to directly point at me and laugh for maybe 10 seconds when the Hurricanes scored their last try –
I never saw any Highlanders fans pointing and laughing at anyone (or even gloating) when the Highlanders were ahead 17-10
we were all shocked and too happy to even think about gloating. As soon as it was 17-10 to the Highlanders we were all busy watching the clock trying to calculate how many tries the Hurricanes could still score in the 15 minutes left.
We would have been delighted with a draw and even left smiling after witnessing a great second half.
You’re a prat!
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February 21, 2009 9:41am
greycardy

If the latest issue of TransTasman is to be believed, Murray McCully got a great welcome in Samoa last week, because he has apparently agreed to subsidise the air service between Apia and Los Angeles out of NZ’s aid budget.

A few questions need answering:
– How long is this subsidy for?
– How much will it cost?
– Is it going to be extended to other Pacific Islands once they see the precedent?
– Is it a breach of our WTO committments (assuming the recipient is a our goverment-owned airline)?
– What happens when the subsidy ends, given no commercial service will take on a route in competition with an airline that is being paid to run at a loss?
– When will the details be made public?

First F&P, now this. Sheesh, perhaps I should have just voted for the Alliance.
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February 21, 2009 9:53am
grumpyoldhori

big bruv, and so is kicking the shit out of a total bastard like that prick Phelps.
Scumbag goes and celebrates the deaths of soldiers at their funerals.
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February 21, 2009 10:15am
oxymoron

I don’t think the issue of “free” education and “donations” is going away any time soon. Successive governments have been far too reliant on the generosity of local communities to save money on the education budget. Also, any overt moves to change the “free” model would be electoral suicide.

If a government simply increased funding and then clamped down extremely on schools pressuring for donations, the average student and the average parent wouldn’t notice any difference. There wouldn’t be any new facilities, programmes, teachers or improvement in achievement at any particular school – the only thing that would change is that the school PTA wouldn’t have to work so hard! Any extra money would simply address various measures schools have taken to stretch their funding to cover what they currently offer to students.

The opposition would then point out “look how much the government has increased funding for schools, but look, no results!”. That has been why there has been a tendency for any increases in education funding being directed at all sorts of useless initiatives. Or not even funding them at all. That is the only way to be seen to be doing something about education without having to address the shortfall between government funding and school donations.
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February 21, 2009 10:17am
Tauhei Notts

When you are asked for the school’s compulsory donation, ask for a copy of the the school’s latest audited annual financial statements.
And if you cannot understand them get them explained to you. Most school accounts I have seen are a mish mash of numbers that have little meaningful information for parents. The accounts are designed by the Education Department for the Education Dept. Tell the school to account to the parents in a readily understood manner. If the accounts are unintelligible to parents then “donations” must be withheld.
It was twenty years ago when I read a school’s accounts and I put a question to the school’s treasurer;
“If the school had paid $10 to the parents of each child at the school, rather than charge them $10, would the school have had a surplus?”
I had to put the question three times before the, by then sheepish, treasurer admitted the word “Yes”. Bureaucrats loathe bastards like me.
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February 21, 2009 10:19am
Atheist1

billyborker how about this:
http://godhatescrustaceans.com/
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February 21, 2009 10:25am
reid

Internet auction house eBay has temporarily renamed the yellow stars it uses to evaluate sellers on its French site after a complaint that the symbol had anti-semitic connotations. Is there no end to the stupidity of people bending over backwards to appease Jewish prissiness?

Yes, how come we never hear about Pink triangles and Purple, Red, Black and Green stars as well?

It’s interesting isn’t it, how the memory is kept alive by the continuous actions of only one of the groups of victims, and how, when they do invoke the memory, that group doesn’t consistently acknowledge the other groups but almost deliberately seems to attempt to portray themselves in people’s memories as the only group that suffered.

It was a horrible thing of course and should never have been allowed to occur and the allies should have done things differently including publicising what was happening at the time it was happening, for they knew about it, they knew.

However, these days, the memory is sometimes invoked to excuse the excessive actions of the State of Israel, over 60 years after the event. I mean, the Armenians who are widely acknowledged to have been the victims of the first systematic attempt at genocide at the hands of the Ottomans, don’t do this. Few have ever even heard of that event, which began in 1915. So you can’t argue, as some do, that the Jewish holocaust is unique in that the other groups in that colour rainbow were not an entire ethnicity. If you do argue that, then you need to ensure that the Armenian Genocide needs to be included in the history books as well, if you want to be consistent that is.

Another interesting thing is that the anti-semitic canard seems to be wheeled out wherever and whenever the State of Israel is suffering from some embarassing publicity over an over-the-top incident that’s blown up in their faces. It happened here during the Israeli passport issue. Remember the desecration of the Jewish graves? Whatever happened with that? I don’t recall anyone ever being prosecuted for it. It just faded away. However the timing was extremely convenient, wasn’t it. Such coincidental timing also occurs in other countries. State of Israel get’s caught with its hands in the cookie jar, all of a sudden there’s a flurry of talk in the media about anti-semitism and to prove it, a few incidents occur as well. How convenient.

Of course some will argue that that just proves the point, anti-semitism does exist because look at what just happened. With respect to the NZ grave desecration, don’t know about you, but I’ve never noticed an active undercurrent of anti-semitic sentiment flowing through the nation’s veins. Sure there are some nutters but they are few and far between. What strikes me about these outbreaks of anti-semitic incidents when they happen is always the convenience of the timing. If you’re not looking for it you wouldn’t notice it. But if you are, the regularity of the coincidence is rather striking.
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February 21, 2009 10:28am
dad4justice

Does God hate amphibians billy stalker? I guess that’s why Toad is a former Christian. I love lobster. Hi fugley and stan.
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February 21, 2009 10:29am
Patrick Starr

Greenfly – the only person making a noise about it has been Clayton Cosgrove. (and speaking from a very unstable position given his party created the liability.)

after hearing Cosgrove get well and truly exposed by Larry Williams yesterday he’d do himself a favour to keep his big trap shut from now on
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February 21, 2009 10:35am
reid

big bruv, and so is kicking the shit out of a total bastard like that prick Phelps.
Scumbag goes and celebrates the deaths of soldiers at their funerals.

Grumpy, what’s this about? Who’s Phelps?
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February 21, 2009 10:38am
PhilBest

Reid, the FBI’s hate crime statistics show that even there in the USA, hate crimes against Jews rate exponentially higher than any other hate crimes. And don’t kid me that groups like Muslims and Gays are “under-reporting” or not making sufficient fuss about hate crimes against them.
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February 21, 2009 10:38am
reid

“after hearing Cosgrove get well and truly exposed by Larry Williams yesterday he’d do himself a favour to keep his big trap shut from now on”

Patrick is this online, I went to Newstalk but couldn’t find the clip…
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February 21, 2009 10:39am
Patrick Starr

reid – I was looking also – its not uploaded yet unfortunately. It was aout 5.15 last evening.
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February 21, 2009 10:43am
PhilBest

On how to reduce crime. I have commented often: most unsolved crime is committed by known criminals, only we merely have not been able to link to them, any more than a fraction of the crime they actually have committed. That is why locking criminals away earlier in their careers, and for longer, brings spectacular reductions in crime.

The get soft on crims brigade are lying through their teeth when they tell you anything else.

But I have taken on board more research more recently, to the effect that the crucial factor in New York’s spectacular crime decreases is in fact the number of cops and the policing tactics. If you like, the crucial factor is the risk to a criminal, for each crime they commit, of getting caught for that crime. That is apparently a much greater deterrent than increased sentences combined with a low risk of getting caught.

I sadly concur somewhat with D4J’s comment that good cops have been leaving the force in droves. We desperately need this process to be reversed, and we need to draw from the New York model, not the English model.
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February 21, 2009 10:46am
Inventory2

greenfly – have a read of this:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/02/deja-vu-all-over-again_21.html

It seems that Mr Matthews is not entirely a novice at getting offside with his Minister.
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February 21, 2009 10:47am
Patrick Starr

Inventory – that’s shocking!
Do State Services ever check anyone out beforehand…. (Ahem Mary Anne Thompson)
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February 21, 2009 10:52am
PhilBest

I hasten to add that the root causes of crime are social breakdown, foremost of which is the number of babies born to hopeless solo mothers. The hopelessness of the solo mothers is because of the designed trashing of ethics, morals and responsibilities by the whole “liberal” leftwing movement over the last few decades. It is not a case of society needing to become more “caring” and more wealth redistributive, it is a case of society needing to have the signals in place that reduce rather than increase, burdens on it that will ultimately bring about its own demise. There are good sound rational, economic, and even military reasons for the traditional stigmatisation of solo motherhood.
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February 21, 2009 10:53am
Patrick Starr

Philbest – I believe the DPB should be replaced with an insurance scheme everyone takes out before they elect to have children.
It would cost nothing to take it out – just demonstrate you have a relationship, a job and house
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February 21, 2009 10:57am
PhilBest

What I refer to as the “English model” of Law and Order, is this.

Get soft on criminals. Make excuses for them. Leave them on the streets to “punish society”; after all, it is society as a whole that is responsible for these people’s derangement in the first place.

Don’t protect your own citizens from criminals. Punish your own citizens if they defend themselves.

Make private property of no consequence, deserving of no efforts for protection or as a basis for punishment. Someone was deprived; someone else had what the deprived person needed; they took it; insurance will pay. End of story.

Make public property and crimes “against the state”, no matter how trivial, of all consequence. Invent increasing numbers of petty regulations on which to entrap basically decent and harmless people, and devote policing resources to that. Make it a significant source of government revenue. Throw little old ladies who fed the birds in the park against some obscure bylaw into the cells overnight and fast-track them into court to be fined several hundred pounds the next morning.

I won’t even start on the traffic policing tactics and revenue gouging.

Lower the standards for police recruitment and training. Make the training reflect all your “liberal” and politically correct objectives, including those I have outlined above. Do not worry about the best police leaving the force. In fact, encourage them to leave by placing them in situations of ethical dilemma that they can’t cope with. The objective is to have a politicised force of low-browed thugs who will do the bidding of populist socialist politicians without question.
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February 21, 2009 11:06am
Buggerlugs

Former Christchurch Central MP Tim Barnett is moving to Africa to tackle Aids.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha….
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February 21, 2009 11:14am
Inventory2

Patrick – maybe being familiar with the general principles of less than … ummm … ethical behaviour was seen as an asset, nay, a prerequistie for senior public servants under the pre-November08 regime. That would seem the only logical explanation.
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February 21, 2009 11:17am
grumpyoldhori

Patrick Starr, you are being a bit wimpy, what is wrong with forced abortions for those who cannot afford children and get pregnant ?
Is that not better than expecting the taxpayer to pay for them ?
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February 21, 2009 11:41am
grumpyoldhori

Reid, google god hates gays.
I am only surprised the sod has not been shot.
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February 21, 2009 11:42am
Patrick Starr

goh – If they want kids they can find themselves a sponsor – just not my taxes
what’s wrong with adoption – there are plenty of couples waiting
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February 21, 2009 11:51am
grumpyoldhori

Reid, anti-semitic sentiment, yep funny how that is wheeled out when needed.

For example I believe that traitor who helped Mossadd with the passport incident should be put on trial for treason over that if we get our hands on him.
But it is amusing how many of the useful fools for Israel believe that would be
anti-semitic.
You have to admire their bloody cheek though, dead Arab kids, collateral damage, dead Israeli kids equals terrorism.
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February 21, 2009 11:55am
grumpyoldhori

Patrick Starr, you want the cheapest answer to the problem of peasants having the cheek to get pregnant when they can not afford it.
Abortion is the cheapest answer, far cheaper than going down the adoption route.
Or should the kid be put up for auction when still in the womb ?
And forget the morality of it all, where saving taxes is concerned morality should go out the window.
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February 21, 2009 12:06pm
Murray

Phelps and his mob actually backed out of pulling one of their stunts in West Virginia when the local sheriff pointed out loudly that almost everyone in West Virginia owned high powered rifles and hunted, and well gee he just couldn’t be everywhere now could he.

Shame he didn’t push his luck that day.
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February 21, 2009 12:09pm
Patrick Starr

yep they do have a fucken cheek bringing kids into this world that they cant afford to raise properly – or expect someone else to pick up the tab

The African continent is full of them
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February 21, 2009 12:13pm
Murray

So is south Auckland, your point is?
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February 21, 2009 12:14pm
Patrick Starr

its a matter of proportion murray
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February 21, 2009 12:24pm
Murray

Porportionally the ones is south Auckland cost me a lot more.
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February 21, 2009 12:31pm
Patrick Starr

true – but Africa is a good example of allowing it to continue.

NZ aid to africa is only $5.7 mil so you are still paying
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February 21, 2009 12:37pm
reid

I am only surprised the sod has not been shot.

Well that would be just compounding the error. Which is of course, God hates no-one. It’s a pretty fundamental mistake to make to imagine otherwise. The Universe has laws. The principle law is that it runs on love.

For a professional Christian not only to believe otherwise but also to preach that, is not uncommon but is nevertheless just about the most fundamental error one could make.
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February 21, 2009 12:39pm
Murray

I know that but I’m more concerned about the more imediate problem and thats souht Auckland. If we ignored the Arfican one it would go away.
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February 21, 2009 12:44pm
grumpyoldhori

Patrick Starr , so if the abortion route is followed it would save money all round ,
agree ?
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February 21, 2009 12:47pm
maurieo

As is oft the case we direct our focus to those parents who have failed. Some would say that we reward them with taxpayer funded benefits and a life of luxury (taxpayers) and others say no that is not the case.

One thing we definitely do not do is reward those who demonstrate one of the behaviours we desire and a behaviour that statistically demonstrates good results, that is children bought up in two parent families. There are other factions in this group desireable behaviours eg those who choose to work and hold down a steady job, those who choose to live a law abiding life, those who choose to be honest……………….

Income splitting for two parent families is an idea that has been around for years yet never implemented. Super Nanny tells us to reward the behaviour you want to continue yet nanny state thinks differently and haeps more tax on those doing the right thing. Make it easier for people to do the right thing rather than tax the good to give money to those doing the very things you don’t want.
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February 21, 2009 12:49pm
Patrick Starr

goh – what I find most appalling is your attitude to imply the DPB is there to allow the poor to have children. That is not what it was introduced for and for you to defend those that make a conscious decision to have kids because the DPB will fund them is everything that is wrong with that benefit.
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February 21, 2009 1:27pm
MT_Tinman

So is now the time to argue for post-natal abortion, with no time limit, for those born to the socially irresponsible?
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February 21, 2009 2:50pm
Brian Smaller

DIFFERENT TOPIC

Just back from the Cuba St Carnival. Weather got nice and it was warm, there lots of hippy chicks in fuck all clothes, good food (The Cheeky Pipi’s scallops wrapped in bacon with a hollandaise sauce were out of this world), Samba dancers in incredibly short skirts, cold beers and I got a used kimono from Japan for $5. The day had everything.
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February 21, 2009 3:08pm
grumpyoldhori

Patrick Starr, nope wrong, do not want to spend taxpayer money on kids from the great unwashed, fine.
But come on, how about a bit of purity, what is the cheapest method of dealing with the problem ?
On financial grounds I fancy an auction of the unborn kid
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February 21, 2009 4:12pm
philu

smaller..in a ‘used kimono’..

..ew..!

..too much information..!

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2009 4:35pm
Manolo

Whoar, aka the viceroy of bludgers, with a baking tray in his stained hands. Too much information!
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February 21, 2009 4:40pm
Brian Smaller

Yeah Phil. The sign at the stall said that some were stained. That must have been your old one.
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February 21, 2009 4:48pm
Jack5

Those in the daily general debate strings who are cool on police use of DNA might find this interesting:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/dna-nets-suspect-17-years-after-murder-20090220-8dos.html?page=2
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February 21, 2009 5:00pm
philu

yeah..like man-so.low…you’d get off on wearing my old stained kimono..

(preferably ‘unwashed’..)

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2009 5:00pm
PhilBest

From the latest “Family First” communique (included in TGIF Edition)

In NZ in 2007:

54 15 year old boys fathered children
15 UNDER-15 year old boys fathered children
39 UNDER-15 year old girls gave birth to children

I wonder how many of these would understand a question including the term “financially able to support”?
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February 21, 2009 5:01pm
Brian Smaller

Fraid not Phil – much as it would arouse you obviously. These are Jap imports.
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February 21, 2009 5:23pm
Patrick Starr

Manolo – I trust you saw what Toad told us all about Phool the other day? – (just gross)
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February 21, 2009 6:09pm
slijmbal

I notice Cullen’s train set has been marked down in value by almost a quarter of a billion dollars!

http://www.findata.co.nz/News/1505721/Government_accounts_take_hit_on_KiwiRail_buy.htm

Can we take it out his parliamentary pension at $1000 a week for the next 100 years – he will live that long being one of the undead already.
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February 21, 2009 6:24pm
Brian Smaller

Manolo – I trust you saw what Toad told us all about Phool the other day? – (just gross)

That he practices his punctuation on unsuspecting passers-by?
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February 21, 2009 6:42pm
Patrick Starr

HepC & VD
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February 21, 2009 6:49pm
pdm

Help please – is it possible to view electoral rolls on line?

If so where?

I have looked under the electoral office but they seem to only refer to printed copies at libraries etc. I may have missed it but if someone can provide a link that would be great.

[DPF: No the rolls are not online]
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February 21, 2009 7:50pm
Viking2

Why criminals should be DNA tested.

DNA nets suspect 17 years after murder

* Bellinda Kontominas
* February 21, 2009
* Page 2 of 2 | Single Page View

Officers from the Homicide Squad followed every lead, but the case stalled.

Nail clippings and clothing that had been taken from Flores were later submitted and examined by the Department of Analytical Laboratories and blood found under his fingernails provided a DNA match to an “unknown male”.

It would be years until Armstrong would come to their attention, even though he had lived and worked in the Darlinghurst area from 1991 to 1994.

He later moved to Tasmania where, in early December last year, he denied to police having ever met Flores, offering them “no reasonable explanation” how his DNA profile could have been found on the body.

Armstrong was charged with the murder and extradited to NSW.

He is yet to enter a plea and will next appear in court on March 26.
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February 21, 2009 9:09pm
Eisenhower

Is the left starting to have doubts that the Obama administration’s supposedly more benign position on foreign policy is a figment of their ideological imagination?

Obama widens missile strikes inside Pakistan
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February 21, 2009 10:01pm
TimG_Oz

So Reid, the extremist anti zionist anti bush unemployed christian is now angry about the JEWISH Conspiracy that they DESCECRATED THEIR OWN LOVED ONES Grave sites.

Reid – that is the most disgusting piece of filth I have ever read. The fact that there was a dickhead from Lower Hutt running around doing nasty things to Jews publicly is beside the matter. Oh and I know a guy whose family’s graves were desecrated and received (anonymous) e-mails after they were re-consecrated with those same graves draped in Nazi flags.

We know you’ve never been to Israel or the middle east, and it now appears you’ve never met a Jew, and you are totally uninformed, even having posted 2000+ ANONYMOUS comments. But I don’t think you’ve probably ever stooped this low.

I doubt you will retract (you never do).

DPF … I can’t believe you didn’t even comment on his post
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February 21, 2009 11:31pm
sally

Reid- are you implying that the Jewish community desecrated their own graves? You ignorant, inflamatory and snide insinuations are just deplorable. The police have their strong suspicions over the offenders in this case, but simply not enough evidence to arrest and convict. There has never been the slightest suggestion or hint that the Jewish community was anyway involved. I notice there never seems to be the overblown reactions by so-called Peaceniks and their fellow travellers over the Kuwait nationals in 2000 who were found with fake NZ passports, yup Helen clark managed to really downplay that one.

grumpoldhori – geez you go on about dead Arab kids, what about looking after your own, do you call out call “racism” everytime anyone dare question Maori over their appalling statistics regards child abuse -I see another Maorii kid was murdered by their loving whanau in Marton. Amnesty International has concurred with Israel and says most of the dead were Hamas agents and the UN has retracted that the Israeli army hit a compound of theirs , turns out Hamas had booby-trapped it.
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February 22, 2009 12:51am
expat

Who else is getting sick of Andy Knacksted and his parsimonious and weasel speak attitude towards getting the beauraucrats in WGN to pull finger out of arse?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10558045
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February 22, 2009 6:20am
expat

And it sounds like the APIA have lost a few $’s on less than profitable investments, perhaps via a certain australia and new zealand banking connection and unit trust combo?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10557966&pnum=0
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February 22, 2009 6:57am

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