General Debate 20 February 2009

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Chthoniid

Well, last Friday I was just sipping coffee and posted a photo link.

Now I’m sipping coffee, so why not another photo- http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v2/p539975074-4.jpg
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February 20, 2009 9:27am
stephen

From DPF’s NBR feature:

A 33% gap between the two major parties is unprecedented. But Trevor Mallard does his best with rejoinder:

Hon Trevor Mallard: Better than the 22 percent that you got!

Hon BILL ENGLISH: I remind the member that I know what that is like, and he will not like it.

Ha! Zingers flying everywhere!
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February 20, 2009 9:32am
stephen

Pretty cool Chthoniid…a little gross though, but that’s insects for you.
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February 20, 2009 9:33am
dad4justice

Does anybody know if the judge that denied compensation to Rex Haig was the same judge that viewed pornographic material on a NZ Government computer? How can Simon Power, a PC lawyer say Haig is not credible when cops paid $60k to the NOW culpable second party to the homicide. Do you have a braincell Simon? Many lawyer friends are dumbfounded in your strange decision. Mistake ONE matey@! Now watch your opening up of a huge can of worms as police informant territory is NOW fair game. Do you like paying criminals Mr Power? You go do 10 years in Paparoa!
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February 20, 2009 9:45am
dad4justice

Oh yes, nearly forgot Mr Justice Minister – you can’t go on the protection wing!
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February 20, 2009 9:50am
Madeleine

What is wrong with NZ rugby management and the NZ media? This ludicrous racial charge South Africa have levelled at the NZ Maori Rubgy team can by summed up in one word: hypocrisy.

The South African rugby management forbids South African rugby teams playing against opponents selected on racial lines but they themselves have a non-white quota – a selection process that is race based.

Instead of hitting this issue the media and the NZ rugby management and NZ race relations all try the tactic of trying to deny that the NZ Maori team are selected on the basis of race or that NZ has a history of racial discrimination like South Africa’s – give me a break!
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February 20, 2009 9:51am
big bruv

Of all the dumb, stupid and ridiculous things you have said D4J this is easily the worst.

You are obviously a small minded fuckwit who cannot let anything go, there is no cause to slander the judge (if a judge was involved at all in the process)

Seriously D4J, get some help.
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February 20, 2009 9:51am
MyNameIsJack

Ha! Zingers flying everywhere!

And this is what we pay them for? it may be good theatre, but it is not good government.

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
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February 20, 2009 9:54am
dad4justice

big bruv, your snide remarks are no concern to me. What is your beef with me? Your constant attack is beyond my understanding.I thought I asked a fair question? If you knew how bad our justice system was then you would share my concerns? Surely?
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February 20, 2009 9:54am
dime

sooooo the solution to the countries problems.. union style.

one day off a week to do community work, paid for by the government.

quick question – wouldnt it be better if the govt cut tax rates for companies and PAYE? would cost about the same!
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February 20, 2009 9:57am
big bruv

Madeleine

I applaud the Safa rugby union, I love the irony of the Safa’s being the ones to point out the blindingly obvious to PC New Zealand.

The truth is that we do have our very own apartheid team, they ARE a race based team and as such have no part in modern NZ.
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February 20, 2009 9:58am
MyNameIsJack

Your constant attack … so syas a hurt d4j, who does little but hurl insults, launch attacks and foam at the mouth.

BigBruv is right, you are obviously a small minded fuckwit.
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February 20, 2009 10:00am
dad4justice

We agree big bruv, well done Safa rugby union.

Edit ; Jack calls me from fuckwit from the left corner and big blouse from the right corner. Haha do have a good day. Rainy here.
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February 20, 2009 10:00am
dime

I dont know a lot about the case… but anyone that serves 10 years for a crime they didnt commit should get a few mill.
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February 20, 2009 10:02am
MyNameIsJack

wouldnt it be better if the govt cut tax rates for companies and PAYE? would cost about the same!

Yes, it would, but it wouldn’t give the Nats a chance to do what they do best – Vogon style ordering about of people they think below them.
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February 20, 2009 10:02am
dime

As opposed to everyone relying on the state?

why do the left always think businesses are evil? is it just envy?
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February 20, 2009 10:05am
Chthoniid

Pretty cool Chthoniid…a little gross though, but that’s insects for you.

Thanks, it’s a bee mimic fwiw- originally from Europe. So harmless fly (likes pollen and nectar) rather than bee.
Never quite thought of insects as gross though. 😉
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February 20, 2009 10:05am
MyNameIsJack

dime (1033) Vote: 0 1 Says:

February 20th, 2009 at 10:05 am
As opposed to everyone relying on the state?

why do the left always think businesses are evil? is it just envy?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t national the lead party in the government? isn’t it National planning on making people more reliant on the state?

Then again, I do recall Jonkey saying “I believe in the welfare state” four times in 10 minutes during the campaign.
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February 20, 2009 10:09am
stephen

And this is what we pay them for? it may be good theatre, but it is not good government.

Question time is necessarily a place for government as such, and I dare say many a good point has been made at such times as these. No doubt in the minority though. In any case ‘Lockie’ seems to have the raised the general standard.
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February 20, 2009 10:13am
big bruv

I like the idea of the four day week for no other reason that it may (in a rather perverse way) teach kiwi’s about the importance of productivity.

When we come out of this crash I would hope that both the employees and employers see that they can improve both their quality of life and their productivity.
Smart employers should continue to offer a shorter week to those who can produce the goods inside four days, if nothing else it will send a signal to the other employees that if you work smarter you can have a better quality of life and earn more money.
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February 20, 2009 10:26am
CraigM

I cannot express enough, my contempt for the pond scum who attacked the WW2 veteran Eric Brady. Not only was it a sickening attack on an elderly member of our society, it was perpetrated by a cowardly thug who has probably never done anyone any good in his short miserable life.

I can only imagine the damage Mr Brady could have inflicted on this piece of shit in self defense,had they met at an equal age.

I wish I could even understand what type of animal could do such a thing. WTF goes through your head to make you think that beating the crap out of an 85 year old is an appropriate thing to do.

Once the animal is caught I am sure we will have to hear about his dysfunctional family, abusive parents, drug addiction, etc etc.

Will the courts make an example of this shit bag? I certainly hope so. I hope the court room is full of senior citizens all baying for blood. I hope the judge has a parent of around 85 years of age.

My heart goes out to Mr Brady and his family. That you have had to deal with such an horrific event at this time of your life is sad beyond words.
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February 20, 2009 10:33am
CraigM

“Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.”

Question time is always going to be about political point scoring and pontification.

I don’t agree that things are the same as they were a few months ago though. I think Lockwood Smith has brought significant and noticable change to the house.

Now if he could only get people like Cosgrove to stop making shit up. That hasn’t changed 🙂
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February 20, 2009 10:39am
peterwn

dad4justice – the QC who denied compensation is no longer a judge. A bit of Googling will answer your question. Incidentally AFAIK when High Court judges are appointed (as from a a few years back) it is on the basis that if they relinquish their judgeships, they cannot ever practice law again (I do not know precise limitations, eg NZ only, or whether they can do non-law work like mediation).

There are two (and another two as well) standards of proof that apply in the law:
1. Person did it beyond reasonable doubt (complainant has to show this, person can remain silent)
2. Person did it on balance of probabilities (complainant has to show this, person may be able to remain silent)
3. Person did not do it on balance of probabilities (person has to show this).
4. Person did not do it beyond reasonable doubt (person has to show this).

That a person is found ‘not guilty’ of a crime does not mean that he did not do it, but merely that the evidence did not stack up ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. The evidence may however quite clearly show the charge to be proved on the ‘balance of probabilities’, and this would be sufficient for the victim to sue the offender (for example for damages if it was an assault), for an employee to be fired, or for assets to be seized under ‘proceeds of crime’ laws). Usually 1 or 2 apply for criminal and civil cases respectively, but legislation or case law may require that 3. applies (eg affirmative defences or presumptions eg a married man and girlfriend booking into a hotel are presumed to have had sex for purposes of proving adultory).

Given this, it would be untenable for compensation to be paid out merely because an original conviction is overturned. Sir Douglas Graham when wrestling with the matter in the 1990’s and his view was that the wrongly imprisoned person had to prove beyond reasonable doubt (standard 4 above) that he did not do it – a pretty tall order especially a decade down the track. This leaves standards 2 or 3. The Cabinet guideline requires standard 3.

I think it would be wrong if Rex Haig could collect a big pot of money by remaining silent. In this instance the QC suggested that it was proved to standard 2 above, but this was not the test he had to use. He was working to standard 3. If this meant Rex Haig had to ‘come clean’ on certain matters or incriminate others then so be it.

IMO standard 3 is the correct standard, and in any event if Cabinet guidelines indicate standard 3 an therefore the QC’ report is on the correct basis and as drawn the appropriate conclusion.

There is no reason for the long suffering taxpayer to bear the cost of compensation merely because the alleged offender is later acquitted and it is by no means clear that he did not do it.
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February 20, 2009 10:40am
dime

Jack – this 4 days a week thing came from unions and endorsed by the greens. it wont go anywhere. im just pointing out how fucked up their “policies” are.
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February 20, 2009 10:43am
Ryan Sproull

I wish I could even understand what type of animal could do such a thing. WTF goes through your head to make you think that beating the crap out of an 85 year old is an appropriate thing to do.

If you really want to understand, you’ll have to show some empathy for the kind of things that do twist someone to the point where they would do something like this.

Once the animal is caught I am sure we will have to hear about his dysfunctional family, abusive parents, drug addiction, etc etc.

Never mind.
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February 20, 2009 10:45am
greenfly

Question: Has ‘Crusher Collins’ crushed anything yet (besides Matthews’ chance of a fair go)?
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February 20, 2009 10:46am
big bruv

Oh come on CraigM

It is not his fault, he is the product of the 1990’s National government and the welfare cuts of Ruth Richardson.

These poor people do not want to steal from others, they are forced to do so because they do not receive enough in support from the government, I can guarantee you that he has had a horrendous upbringing, his parents were more than likely once good people who had their entitlements cut back in the early 90’s, this forced them into drug and alcohol dependency, what chance did the child have when his parents had been so badly treated by the National party?.

The young man in question is culturally lost, he will also harbour deep personal grievances against pakeha Aotearoa and in some ways he is not the criminal at all, his actions can be blamed fairly and squarely on colonisation.

Far from seeking vengeance for this mans actions you would be far better to embrace him and his obvious protest against the cultural rape of his lands.
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February 20, 2009 10:49am
CraigM

Big bruv – heh

Ryan, sorry but that is pathetic. How can you seriously make excuses for this animal. Your “never mind” comment is pretentious and pious.

You have no idea of my background or just how much I do understand the things that happen in families that can twist a person this way.

Understanding them is not excusing them and you saying it does makes you as retarded as the animal that did it.

It is people like you, with that attitiude, that have allowed this kind of behaviour to flourish in our society.

Please take your smug “I’m a better person than you” attitude to Middlemore hospital and tell Mr Brady and his family all about it.
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February 20, 2009 11:05am
MyNameIsJack

dime, from yesterday’s NZherald

“A four-day working week for companies struggling to keep staff during the recession is one suggestion that will be discussed at next week’s jobs summit, the Government has confirmed.

A spokeswoman for Prime Minister John Key said tonight hundreds of ideas were coming through and they would all be considered at the February 27 meeting of ministers, business representatives and trade unions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557666

“The four-day week is one of them. It could not be established tonight whether the suggestion came from a government department or the private sector.”
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February 20, 2009 11:19am
Ross Miller

greenfly … why don’t you postrate yourself in front of her and find out … to your cost.

Pray tell me why a Minister declining to express confidence in a departmental head is somehow wrong in light of the simply damning report. Are you saying she has to lie when asked a direct question.

Suggest you might care to ask the Kuchenbacker family just what they think of him.

$300,000+ p.a. so where does ‘his’ buck stop?

As a sidebar fascinating to note that the Clayton Cosgrove is now revealed as having lied in Parliament yesterday re his claim that Matthews was being offered a golden handshake. Clearly Labour decided that attack was the best defence to draw the fire away from Mr 4% after Goff had been totally shewered by Collins the day before when she matched the assurances he gave as Corrections Minister against the reality set out in the report.

I can see why Goff ‘conveniently’ found other things to do rather than be in the debating chamber.
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February 20, 2009 11:19am
KiwiGreg

If going to a 4 day week would increase employment, then maybe we should go to a one day week to increase it even more. I happen to like working though so maybe I can just pay higher taxes instead of giving up some of my work?
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February 20, 2009 11:24am
MT_Tinman

BB, Craig, at first reading I thought exactly along the lines that you have expressed.

I have, unfortunately, met so many WWII veterans who are bad tempered, loud mouthed, foul mouthed, racist, drunken outright wankers that I will need to hear the full circumstances before I can decide.

Many of these “gentlemen” were of course dragged kicking and screaming into the forces by the draft and no doubt most did no real fighting.

Those who fought are more than likely to never mention their part in the war.

I’ll wait and see on this one.
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February 20, 2009 11:24am
big bruv

A question for those of you who know more about economics than I do.

Given that we are going to borrow billions and billions in a stupid attempt to fend off the financial crisis I am interested to know what type of tax rates we are looking at in the future as we start to pay this money back.
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February 20, 2009 11:28am
CraigM

Tinman – so bad tempered, loud mouthed, foul mouthed, racist, drunken outright wankers of 85 deserve to get the shit beat out of them?

I don’t know Mr Brady either, I have no idea if he fits your description or if he ever talks about the war. I do know he is 85 years old and deserves to be looked after, or at best ignored if he is as you suggest he may be, rather than beaten up by a young thug.

What it is with people making excuses for this animal. Have I woken up in fucking LaLa land this morning?

Another young baby was killed this week, through severe abuse. I bet she cried a lot though. Probably crapped herself to. Imagine having to deal with that? She got what she deserved ay Ryan, Tinman?
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February 20, 2009 11:35am
goodgod

“The four-day week is one of them. It could not be established tonight whether the suggestion came from a government department or the private sector.”

Judging by it’s intelligence, i’d say it was from the govmint. Originally it came from the boy who stuck his finger in the dyke. He got it from King Kanute.
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February 20, 2009 11:40am
Brian Smaller

Ryan – I was wondering if it would be you or one of the others who would be first to find excuses for the piece of shit that attacked an elderly man to steal his car. It seems there is nothing that these scum can’t do that is wrong according to your average do-gooding lefty.
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February 20, 2009 11:52am
goodgod

Tinman – so bad tempered, loud mouthed, foul mouthed, racist, drunken outright wankers of 85 deserve to get the shit beat out of them?

no I think it’s a fair point, even if it is broadly offensive. If the boy who was killed for tagging attracted his situation, then “innocent” victims may also attract their situations. The rape victim that puts herself in dubious company… the 85 year old veteran who (perhaps) has debts with dodgy types? In the very least, loud mouthed offensive men may well attract people with other offensive habits.

While it may be nice to sit back and utter the slogan “its not ok”, it does not stop it happening and does not reinforce the truth that if you want to stay out of trouble, don’t move in dodgy circles, don’t live outside your means, don’t get invovled in drugs, try your best not to be unecessarily offensive, and that ultimately, you need to be watching your own back.

And of course, sometimes these things just happen. Maybe he was a nice old bloke who never hurt a flea and it was just bad luck. No one knows.

But the story in the Herald is too short to base a full understanding on.
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February 20, 2009 11:54am
baxter

PETERWN……………Excellent Post.

MADELAINE:………The Rugby Unions could resolve the matter by allowing the All Brown AllBlacks to play the All White Springboks in Soweto and on the same day the All Black Springboks could play the AllWhite All Blacks in Christchurch.
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February 20, 2009 11:56am
WebWrat

MT_Tinman: So you will reserve your judgement to see if the nasty old fella deserved to be snotted by the nice, young community minded chap?

Uh ha ….

I wonder if the vets are grumpy because they now realise that they wasted their time because their descendants now want to suck up to the very regimes that they fought against?

“Have I woken up in fucking LaLa land this morning?”

CraigM, I think that every day when I read what the trolls have to say.
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February 20, 2009 12:03pm
dad4justice

Thank you peterwn, and yes I am well aware of the former Justice Fisher.

It is sad that today a newborn baby is in the care of Child, Youth and Family after being left at South Auckland’s Middlemore Hospital by teenage parents. Is it rainy day in the city of sails? A city which gives $2million to a pomy pretty boy git who kicks a round ball around.

Please big bruv refrain from another personal attack.
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February 20, 2009 12:06pm
greenfly

Ross Miller said’ “greenfly … why don’t you postrate yourself in front of her..”
The way everyone else is doing so willingly? No thanks. You don’t feel that she’s prejudiced fair process here, with her spoken (and unspoken/implied) opinions? I do.
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February 20, 2009 12:07pm
CraigM

Can someone give me directions out of LaLa land?

gg -“the 85 year old veteran who (perhaps) has debts with dodgy types? ”

Why are people making stuff about this poor guy?

What’s next, accusing him of being a peodophile? FFS.

GG- I get what you are saying in your post, I really do and mostly I agree. But Mr Brady is 85 years old and by all accounts the animal just wanted to steal his car.

I don’t care what Mr Brady did or did not do, who he was or was not…….you DO NOT beat up an 85 year old unless you are one seriously fucked up individual. Sadly, our country has way too many people who are seriously fucked up…and way too many people ready to find excuses for them.
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February 20, 2009 12:08pm
stephen

I wonder if the vets are grumpy because they now realise that they wasted their time because their descendants now want to suck up to the very regimes that they fought against?

The Third Reich actually ended around 1945, same with the Japanese Empire.
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February 20, 2009 12:08pm
greenfly

goodgod – King Kanute, by my reckoning, was a greeny. He took on the tides for a reason.
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February 20, 2009 12:11pm
Madeleine

I never denied for a second that the NZ Maori Rugby team is race based, my point was that the Springboks also have race-based selection criteria so their objection holds the NZ team to a double standard.

I was also bemoaning the fact that very few people seem able to see this and instead are making the issue about things it is not and trying to win the argument utilising hard to defend claims instead of using the best argument which they are seemingly blind to.
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February 20, 2009 12:12pm
big bruv

Barry Matthews refused to resign!

Do pinko’s ever take responsibility for their own mistakes?
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February 20, 2009 12:13pm
MyNameIsJack

come on greenfly, give us the reason then.
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February 20, 2009 12:13pm
big bruv

D4J

If you stop slandering people who do not deserve it simply because YOU have a problem with the justice system I will gladly ignore you.
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February 20, 2009 12:17pm
goodgod

CraigM, I’m not excusing the assault or suggesting he “deserved it”. I do however understand how and series of events ends badly. I’m not attempting to make things up about him, I’m putting ideas into a hypothetical context so a motive can be found. I’d hope the police would be asking the same questions:

Who did he hang out with?
Did he have any debts – who with?
Any history of violence?

etc etc.

Watch the CCTV footage of the attack. It doesn’t match the Herald story. The guy runs up to the car, but does not run away. He did not attempt to steal the car – he had the keys, watch as he turns on the ignition to reverse the car off the wall and the indicator goes on. Do your indicators work with the ignition off? He calmly walks away, closing the door and possibly making it look “natural”. He does not run away as reported.

If this is the full CCTV footage there are questions. If it is not, no one can make any claims and the Herald story is still obviously wrong.

Was it a totally coincidental attack and everything was just chance,

or does the man know his attacker or someone who sent him?
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February 20, 2009 12:19pm
greenfly

He wasn’t attempting to stop the incoming tide (as is commonly held) He was demonstating the futility of trying and the foolishness of adoration of ‘messianic’ figures. He failed to stay the tide (though everyone believed he could) but made a point which has survived the passage of time (though the message has become garbled). The tide’s on it’s way in.
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February 20, 2009 12:21pm
Colonel Masters

dime wrote:

sooooo the solution to the countries problems.. union style.

one day off a week to do community work, paid for by the government.

What’s the bet that their idea of “community work” would include union activities (especially in election year), and a day’s blogging on the Standard?
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February 20, 2009 12:47pm
grumpyoldhori

Maori rugby, I have an evil plan.
Blackadder would be proud of this.
Now instead of the horis turning out as NZ Maori, those who are not good enough for the ABs can turn out for the Cook Islands.
Hey, Cook Islanders are horis so poms etc would not notice the difference.

And just like the Scots with their UK passports the Cook Islands also use NZ passports so there is no need for NZ horis to live in Cook Islands to turn out for them.
And the great thing is, just imagine how pissed off the bog trotters, poms or those Welsh gits would be if the Cook island side beat them in the world cup.
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February 20, 2009 2:32pm
Rex Widerstrom

dad4justice, thanks for raising the issue of Rex Haig. I noted the story yesterday but have been pushed for time today but I was almost certain you’d raise it. Perhaps you need to have actually seen the inside of a prison cell to have any idea what it’s like, especially if you know you’ve done nothing to deserve being there.

peterwn, thanks also for your reasoned contribution. I can follow your logic (and that of Sir Douglas Graham) but I disagree.

To deprive someone of their liberty is, in Western society at least, the harshest treatment the state can inflict on its citizens. It is utterly vital, therefore, that every person who takes a decision to further the process which eventually leads to impisonment know that there will be consequences if they get it wrong. It is exactly the same argument that can be applied to a would-be offender… the only effective deterrent is clear consequences for making the wrong decision.

Of course I’m not advocating that prosecutors and police and judges be held personally accountable when the system fails and a man is imprisoned against whom the standard of “beyond reasonable doubt” has not been met (unless of course there is deliberate malfeasance in public office).

But I do believe that the system needs to be held to account when it falls short of the standard – and the standard for imprisoning an accused person isn’t any of the alternatives you’ve listed, it is purely that of reasonable doubt.

It may be that Rex Haig isn’t innocent, merely not guilty, and that the state would thus be paying a guilty man. Too bad, because the state has an absolute duty to recompense a citizen whose life it has ruined and, since it is unreasonable to hold the acquitted person to an impossible standard – proving a negative – then we as a society must bite the bullet and recompense those against whom the system has acted and got it wrong.

If one extrapolates the figures for innocent people released from US jails (usually based on DNA evidence) after serving time, it’s not unreasonable to assume there are 40 innocent people sitting in NZ’s jails today. Until we improve the justice system, we are asking those people,and their families, to pay an incredibly high price to allow us to convict and imprison the thousands who do deserve it.

So when the system is found to have failed, and not lived up to its own standard of beyond reasonable doubt, we should equally accept that the payment of compensation to the newly acquitted person is also part of the price we as a society pay for the system we choose to have.
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February 20, 2009 2:57pm
gd

I see Barry Matthew is refusing to walk This will be because he can show that he asked the Socilaists for more resources to be able to carry out their policies and meet the Departments requirements and was refused.

Bazza knows that if Rennie fires him he will win big time in the Employment Court who will rule Bazza was unreasonably frustrated in carrying out his duties by his employer/

Then Bazza will get the big payout.

Or if Rennie cuts a deal Bazza will still get a big payout and the Nats and Crusher will get toasted by the Socilaists

Best thing is that Crusher tells Rennie to back off Bazza and does a deal with him Budget time for more resources to smooth his feathers and dont give the bastard Socialists an opening that was of their our doing
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February 20, 2009 3:27pm
CraigM

Grumpy – bloody brilliant.
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February 20, 2009 3:46pm
gd

does anyone know why Judges combine sentences for multiple crimes instead of adding them up. Those animals who shot the little girl in Palmy got a discount for bad behaviour

No wonder the citizens have no confidence in the law makers or the Courts.

When are these dumbarses going to join Planet Earth
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February 20, 2009 3:58pm
Frank

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Money Morning

“There is nearly universal agreement that the opening salvo of the Obama administration’s campaign to restore health to the financial system, delivered last week by new U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, fell with a loud and ugly thud. The most common criticism is that the announcement was short on detail.

What is abundantly clear, however, is that the new administration intends to push spending back up to pre-crash levels and to fill the entire credit void that has disappeared into the black hole of the U.S. financial system. Whether or not the prior levels of spending and lending were justified by market conditions then, or now, appears to be largely unexamined… “
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February 20, 2009 3:59pm
Rex Widerstrom

gd asks:

does anyone know why Judges combine sentences for multiple crimes instead of adding them up.

The short answer is “because they can”. Ask any criminal lawyer and s/he’ll tell you there’s pretty much a “standard tariff” for a particular offence. How a judge gets there is up to them, and is pretty much academic unless it becomes a point at appeal. So if, for instance, you usually get seven years for the type of offending you’ve committed you might get the full 7 on one and less on the others, to be served concurrently, or you might 3.5 on two, to be served consecutively, and less on the rest… personally, having observed many a sentencing, I can’t really perceive a pattern. Sometimes I think it’s the judiciary’s version of Sudoku.

Incidentally, FE Smith, are you out there? FE has seen the inside of many more courtrooms than I, and I miss his erudite contributions (assuming, of course, that the contributor is the same sex as the notable luminary from whom s/he takes her pseudonym).
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February 20, 2009 4:44pm
Nookin

GD: The Sentencing Act directs the courts on cumulative and concurrent sentences.
The relevant section reads:
Guidance on use of cumulative and concurrent sentences of imprisonment
(1) Cumulative sentences of imprisonment are generally appropriate if the offences for which an offender is being sentenced are different in kind, whether or not they are a connected series of offences.
(2) Concurrent sentences of imprisonment are generally appropriate if the offences for which an offender is being sentenced are of a similar kind and are a connected series of offences.
(3) In determining for the purpose of this section whether 2 or more offences committed by 1 offender are a connected series of offences, the court may consider—
(a) the time at which they occurred; or
(b) the overall nature of the offending; or
(c) any other relationship between the offences that the court considers relevant.
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February 20, 2009 4:50pm
PhilBest

Frank, it is late on this thread to start talking about this, but I am starting to wonder whether that black hole in the US financial system has a bottom anywhere near high enough for the government to be able to fill it, even pledging the next few generations of taxpayers money against borrowing today.

I fear that some very very clever uber Capitalists, like George Soros, are in the process of “breaking” the US Federal Reserve. There are apparently some 650 trillion dollars worth of derivative bets currently placed; this figure is completely inexplicable other than that some very clever super rich people are gambling on the further decline of the world economy. The people who sold these derivatives banked fat fees for doing so, and clearly assumed that their risk was low; their assumption is based on optimism about the world economy. What if they continue to be wrong, and all the politicians and central bankers rhetoric about “saving” us is unfounded?

I seriously believe that it is these derivative buyers who are right and the sellers who are wrong. I fear that the secrecy-shrouded bailouts are involving hundreds of billions of US taxpayer dollars being paid into financial institutions that are paying them out just as fast to derivatives holders. If so, this might be described as the most evil scam in history, but I would blame the politicians and the central bankers far more than I would blame the clever people who are outwitting them.

Someone needs to get this message across to the American people; while letting financial institutions fail might be bad for the economy, it is far worse to leave them standing as a conduit through which money is funnelled to a cabal of super wealthy super clever punters, FROM the US taxpayer and his children and his grandchildren and his great grandchildren and…… and…… and…….you get my point?
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February 20, 2009 6:26pm
PhilBest

# big bruv (2690) 3 1 Says:
February 20th, 2009 at 11:28 am

“A question for those of you who know more about economics than I do.

Given that we are going to borrow billions and billions in a stupid attempt to fend off the financial crisis I am interested to know what type of tax rates we are looking at in the future as we start to pay this money back.”

A fair historical comparison would be, how Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson succeeded in paying down the legacy of years of Muldoonist borrow and spend; they actually did it not by raising tax rates, but by cutting government spending. It is that way that salvation lies; raising taxes actually results in shrinking the economy and collecting less the longer the raised rates apply. Look on it not that the borrowing will require rises in tax one day, much as politicians of a certain stripe might try that; it will ultimately require cuts in the size of government.
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February 20, 2009 6:36pm
Patrick Starr

Woohoo – Canes go 22-17 over the inbreds

Go the canes !!
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February 20, 2009 9:22pm
Patrick Starr

……….but hey, did anyone else hear Larry Williams take apart Clayton Cosgrove this evening?

Just beautiful !!!!!!!!!
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February 20, 2009 9:41pm
big bruv

Patrick

I did..it was magnificent..

Punch-n-grow “I have my sources”

Williams “Who are they, do you have a snitch?”

Punch-n-grow “I have my sources”

Williams “you’re making this up”

Punch-n-grow “I have my sources”

Williams “Your sources are wrong, Matthews said as much today”

Punch-n-grow “I have my sources”

It was great stuff, a first class kicking of a man who has been promoted way beyond his intelligence and pay grade.
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February 20, 2009 9:51pm
getstaffed

Patrick – Now I’m a loyal ‘canes man… but you could edit out their few moments of brilliance and the balance of their efforts would have been very ordinary. Still – it was a win, and we needed it. So… Go the canes!

big bruv – a few more ……’s in your comment above and I would have involuntarily skipped over it 🙂
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February 20, 2009 9:52pm
Patrick Starr

Its not often you hear a broadcaster challenge an MP like that………. Just loved it ! Cosgrove was obviously telling utter bullshiit and Williams called him – fantastic

Had it been me I would have answered his “source’ challenge by stating: “you have an ulterior motive – or stated vested interest,……. whereas ours may nott”
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February 20, 2009 11:02pm
Patrick Starr

BTW how’s Dickinson’s performance over the Warratahs / Chiefs.

Neutral refs??? LOL

Forgive me – but is truck and trailer now allowed??? – I’ve seen the Tahs do it twice?
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February 20, 2009 11:09pm
maurieo

I have watched the rugby for a while since the introduction of the short arm penalty and have never seen anyone tap and pass to another player who has attempted a drop goal. Is there some sort of law against this? as at times it has appeared to be a viable option particularly near fulltime with a score difference of less than 3
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February 21, 2009 12:13am
wikiriwhis business

“The Third Reich actually ended around 1945…”

The real Nazi’s behind the third eich still thrive.

One just left the White House. The grandson of Prescott Bush who financed the Nazis.

Strange the media never bought up Prescott Bush during his sons and grandson’s candacacies.

Obviously weren’t allowed to.
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February 21, 2009 1:53pm
wikiriwhis business

The q was raised in the weekend Herald why boot camps are preferred over compulsory military training.

As we all know, because soldiers have to be paid.

That’s it in a nutshell. Nothing more, nothing less.

The fabric of society is completely based on what is cheaper to run it.

Social economics is basic 101 in any mans language.
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February 21, 2009 1:56pm