General Debate 18 February 2009

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

That’s what we like to see:
Job cuts looming for public servants

Finally, what we’ve been waiting for.
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February 18, 2009 7:33am
greenfly

Petrol up another 6 cents. Thanks Gerry, you’re worse than useless!
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February 18, 2009 7:36am
Patrick Starr

Great rationale greenfly – So when petrol was 30c per litre higher last year that must have made David Parker an absolute fuckwit?
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February 18, 2009 7:44am
greenfly

The price of petrol doesn’t make Parker a fuckwit, Patrick 🙂
Brownlee gave out the impression that he could ‘lean’ on the oil companies and force them to give us, the public, a fair deal. He was bullsh*tting then and he’s useless now. I expect the price to continue to rise and Brownlee, now remarkably quiet on the matter, to become more and more useless.
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February 18, 2009 7:52am
aardvark

Tony Ryall sacked Otago DHB Chairman Richard Thomson saying that he must be held accountable for the actions of the fraudsters who got away with $17m.

Thomson’s role as Chairman did *not* include day-to-day running and the CEO of the DHB (who is much closer to the action) appears to have received no blame or sanction.

It really does look as if Thomson has been used as a scapegoat here since he was highly regarded by his colleagues and the public.

So here’s my question to Tony Ryall…. if it’s good enough for the man in charge of the DHB to get the shove when something far below him goes wrong, will *you* resign in the event there’s a fiasco far below you in the chain of command?

sauce, goose, gander, what’s, sauce, is, the, for — rearrange these words into a suitable phrase.

Ryall has done nothing to change the impression he gives of being really smarmy.
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February 18, 2009 7:57am
Patrick Starr

and when you first came to Kiwiblog you “gave out the impression ” you knew what you were on about –
dissapointments all around huh
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February 18, 2009 7:59am
wreck1080

Some Private schools are looking for financial aid from the government.

But, Post primary Teachers Association President Kate Gainsford said supporting private schools was a waste of taxpayers money.

This woman is a leftist looney. She is philosophically opposed to private schools even though they save the government money.

So, if we all listened to madam kate, we shall close the private schools and spend hundreds of millions to build new schools to house the displaced students. Then, of course we will have to fund those schools operations too.

Kate should go back to the slimey little hole she crawled out from.
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February 18, 2009 8:00am
the deity formerly known as nigel6888

wonder why noone has picked up on keith locke on the cricket yesterday – its apparently too soon to decide whether mugabe is a tyrant, and we need to give the new “sharing arrangement” a chance before we do anything hasty.

how many people need to die before locke will ever admit that a socialist may in fact be a bit of a bad egg?
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February 18, 2009 8:03am
Pascal

wreck1080:

But, Post primary Teachers Association President Kate Gainsford said supporting private schools was a waste of taxpayers money.

Kate, I can haz educumation voucher, plx? Or, in English – can I have vouchers for education, please? So I can choose?!?

There is a fantastic Christian school within a block from my house. They cost $5000 per year in fees, I don’t know how much the rest will be. About 4 blocks down is the primary school we’re zoned for and it’s a shit hole. It’s tagged to all hell, dirty and if you drive past there you have to feel sorry for the kids caught behind those fences and on that tarmac.

But, I don’t have a choice. I can’t fork out $5000 a year plus the other expenses that aren’t covered. I doubt we’ll be able to afford the “voluntary donations” on top of government funding at a normal school. But, if I received an education voucher to the value of my tax contribution to schooling, I’d try and swing the balance so I could get my daughters into the Christian school. You know, if I sell my car that would cover 3 or 4 years for them and by then things might have improved enough, etc. It should be do-able. I should be able to take my contribution to “education funding” and choose what to do with it.

It would be a better choice for them. This is why ACT’s voucher system is so damn sensible. But ideological burps like Kate Gainsford are stopping that kind of process, aren’t they?

Let me have a choice, damnit!
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February 18, 2009 8:10am
greenfly

wreck1080 – private schools seeking taxpayer money? You are for that? Why?
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February 18, 2009 8:12am
Murray

Wait so petrol going up under National is bad but meaningless under Labour when it hits record highs?

Does it hurt to have your brain greenfly?
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February 18, 2009 8:16am
big bruv

Greenfly

Comments such as your re the price of petrol will not go down well with your watermelon mates, remember they are the party who want to see petrol at over $3 a litre.
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February 18, 2009 8:22am
getstaffed

he could ‘lean’ on the oil companies and force them to give us, the public, a fair deal

Three words greenfly: trainset. glasshouse. stones.
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February 18, 2009 8:23am
big bruv

Why on earth is Bennett going to “probe” into the advice given to a bludger by a WINZ officer?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4851361a11.html

From what I have read it seems like sound and prudent advice.
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February 18, 2009 8:25am
greenfly

Murray – yes. Rising petrol prices (under National, as you say) affects us now ! Prices during the term of the last government mean nothing now . My brain causes me no pain at all, but thanks for your concern, ya’ soft-hearted thing!
Big Bruv – I’m betting ‘my mates’ feel the same way about Brownlees bluster and bullsh*tting.
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February 18, 2009 8:27am
wreck1080

greenfly- private schools seeking taxpayer money? You are for that? Why?

Because it will cost taxpayers less money to provide temporary assistance than to build a bunch of new schools.

Do you not read?
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February 18, 2009 8:31am
big bruv

greenfly

I don’t care what your mates think, they are all stark raving mad.

I asked YOU the question, how do you equate your apparent level of displeasure at the oil companies putting up the price when the party you support wants to see the price at $3 a litre?

You should be celebrating the increase………………..or are you another hypocritical Greenie?
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February 18, 2009 8:36am
coventry

Re: Big Bruv

Maybe it was the spelling mistakes & punctuation she didn’t like ? Would also love to know what date those letters are dated to, seeing as it was Annette King that tabled them, what are the odds they were sent to her desk pre November 08 ?

**************

Budget advisors are outraged that financially troubled families are being told by a government agency to get loans and sell up their families possessions.

The extraordinary advice comes from a leaked letter from a Work and Income case worker to his south Auckland client.

It tells the family to go to loan sharks or sell off their children’s toys as a way of coping with their debt.

The letter from a Mangere Work and Income case manager, complete with gramatical errors, tells his client to…
“Consider taking out a loan to cover arrears.”
“Pawn my cellphone and children’s play station.”
“Rung my debtors to reduce monthly payments.”
“Seeking a budgeting advice.”

**********

Sounds like good advice in my books.
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February 18, 2009 8:41am
getstaffed

I’m chair of a state integrated school’s board of trustees. Students who graduate from our decile 7 primary school regularly (and I mean every year) go on to achieve at the top in their college, incl Dux, scholarships, sporting etc. We received an outstanding ERO report in 2008, largely due to an extremely committed teaching team and a capable, competent principal leading that team.

Our fees are less than $1000pa+unforms+donation and yet we have parents who are unable to send their kids to our school because of the cost. I would love to see a voucher system in place because I believe those parents are already paying for their children’s education through their taxes and they should have a choice.

As an aside, I’m planning to do some analysis of public vs private spend on education. my hunch is that the dollar cost of educating a child at a private school is significantly lower than at a public school. While not all private or integrated schools deliver better education than public schools I believe the majority do. We should get over socialist rich-prick flannel from our mind-controlling lefties and learn from what works in the private/integrated sector.
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February 18, 2009 8:43am
Murray

Of course your brain doesn’t hurt, its not like you’re using it for thinking.
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February 18, 2009 8:49am
coventry

Hrrrm – ok, so this was the letter Reon / Winz sent out…

___________________________________________________________________

Dear XXXX XXXXX

TEMPORARY ADDITIONAL SUPPORT – IDENTIFIED STEPS

Thank you for your application for Temporary Additional Support.

Below is a lost of the things which we’ve talked about which may help you to reduce your costs, Increase your income where possible, or get other help towards your costs.

* Taking out loans to cover arrears
* Pawn my cellphone and childrens play station
* Rung my debtors to reduce monthly payments or to refinance debts
* Seeking a budgeting advice

We will send you a letter to confirm your payments and the costs we have included in your Temporary Additional Support.

If you have any questions,or want any help with this, please call us on our General Enquires 0800 number.

Yours sincerely

Reon Vatu
Case Manager

___________________________________________________________________

So,

a) They appear to have talked about what can be done
b) It appears that the client was given additional dosh to pay for some costs
c) It appears that the client has no idea on how to budget
d) What’s to say it was the client that suggested to Reon in their conversation that they sell off some of their un-needed luxuries.

I vote give Reon a raise.

And the TVNZ Video of it is here – http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/winz-advises-visit-loan-shark-2491502/video
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February 18, 2009 8:55am
Ross Miller

Socialists start from the absolute position that private schools are bad for you.

The reality is somewhat different. As I recall the private school sector gets somewhat less than $2,000 per pupil per annum in Government grants. In 2000 Labour capped the amount available at $20m so, real terms, the value of that funding has decreased by over 40% (made worse by the increase in numbers in the sector).

In the state sector the per pupil rate is several times higher (dependent on age) + there are a number of add-ons. Capital costs are of course met by central government.

Ok, so it can be argued that pupils attending private schools have an advantage. Yes they do, and their parents pay for that as well as contributing to the state school sector via taxes.

But back to the core arguement advanced by the PPTA and supported by Labour. It is ok to let a private school crash and burn rather than agree to integration. It is a logical outcome to their prejudice. The reality is that if those 550 (I think) pupils in Wanganui are forced into state sector schooling then that is an additional cost which, in fiscal terms, is a loose loose situation.

Oh Well, Socialists enjoy those as meeting their dogma of dumbing down rather than lifting up.
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February 18, 2009 8:57am
greenfly

wreck1080 – I do indeed, read. I read that Key has announced plans to construct a number of new schools as part of his ‘stimulus’ programme. Are you critical of his plan? Do you oppose the building of new schools? Who do you support (or are you simply spouting reactionary rubbish?) Private schools should be self funding – PRIVATE, curiously enough, does not mean PUBLIC (that’s us by the way, and our money.
Big Bruv – If you can show me where you ASKED me a question (cut and paste, just to remind me), I’ll gladly answer you.
getstaffed – I’ve not bought a train lately, nor has the party I support. What on earth do you mean? I do have a glasshouse at home, though I’m bright enough not to biff stones from inside of it, but thanks for the great advice!
Ross – why would a private school crash and burn if it was being run properly?
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February 18, 2009 8:58am
dime

Dime loves the idea of a voucher system!

If parents have a right to choose, the public schools will be dragged up to a higher standard. kicking and screaming most probably.

When I have kids i will be going private, just because i dont want them brainwashed by the state!
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February 18, 2009 8:59am
Madeleine

I don’t live on a WINZ benefit but we are currently going through a low income patch due to my husband re-training and my recent job loss following injuries sustained from a car accident.

Already, on a lean week we have whacked things on the credit card which is the equivalent of getting a loan and while it has not yet happened, I forsee we will probably go through our material goods and see what we can sell on Trade Me. If we had debt I would definately phone our debtors to reduce our monthly payments or would look at consolidating the debt with an additional loan. Several times already this year we have had a good hard look at our budget – we probably should and will take more looks at it as we adjust to the lower income we are on.

Given this, I don’t get what is so earth shatteringly wrong about the case worker’s advice. If people not on WINZ benefits do this sort of thing off their own bat to sort out their own messes why shouldn’t those on benefits?

I personally wouldn’t pawn anything because the amount you get is lousy and the interest you pay back is too high – I think Trade Me is a better option, replace the item when you are flush again – but if you get yourself into a hole definately look at what assets you have that you can sell to get yourself out of it. I am not saying sell the shirt off your back but then neither was the case worker.

Surely it is preferable that you tighten your own belt before reaching into someone else’s pocket.
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February 18, 2009 9:01am
dime

“Private schools should be self funding – PRIVATE”

So using your theory.. Doctors own their own businesses, no more subsidies for them?

What about free dental for under 18’s? that gone too?

What about the free 20 hrs child care?

Its all private! cut the funding!

arent political parties private? sorry Greenfly, no funding for your party!
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February 18, 2009 9:04am
greenfly

“aren’t political parties private?” dime ! You what?
Have to work now – ka kite ano
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February 18, 2009 9:07am
dime

haha ive decided im gonna post like a greenie.. just make shit up.

later on im gonna blame fitzsimmons for the cost of power. then im gonna slander her about owning shares in a wind farm 🙂

but i see you didnt respond to the serious part of my post..
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February 18, 2009 9:14am
KiwiGreg

I have 4 kids at private school, I dont mind not getting a subsidy but I wouldn’t mind getting my share of taxes back for what it would have cost to educate them in the state sector. GST paid on private school fees is in fact greater than the subsidy paid (as someone pointed out frozen in nominal dollars as about the second thing an envious labour party did after whacking taxes up to 39%.)

I also love the fact that the first recourse of a beneficiary with a play station and a cell phone is to run off to the state for more money when things got a bit short (gee I wonder if money was short before or after they bought the toys) rather than trying to sort their own shit out. Let’s be clear – people who cant or wont support themselves are NOT entitled to the same standard of living as people who do.
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February 18, 2009 9:15am
KiwiGreg

Also the way I read the letter, the case worker had sat down with the person and said “what things can you do to help yourself?”. They made a list together and she has reflected that list back to the “client” in her own exact words in the letter which is why it is such bad english (and in the first person in part).
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February 18, 2009 9:17am
goodgod

Greenfly if petrol prices are irrelevent under the previous government, then I suggest you spark up a spliff and imagine yourself in 2099, then today’s increases will seem irrelevent also. Save your brain, save the world.

As for the WINZ letter, the only person probing it should be an english teacher. How does that kind of crap make it out the door? Some sensible ideas there though, but don’t know about recommending loans. When they default, the taxpayer will have to pay the penalty interest too.
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February 18, 2009 9:21am
Brian Smaller

I too have kids at independent schools. I don’t see why I can’t get some sort of rebate on my taxes seeing as I am paying fees and also taxes to educate other people’s kids.

Mind you, I look at 9 people (some apparently with gang affiliations) brawling at Hutt Valley High and I know why my kids go to private school.
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February 18, 2009 9:31am
Brian Smaller

I also love the fact that the first recourse of a beneficiary with a play station and a cell phone is to run off to the state for more money when things got a bit short (gee I wonder if money was short before or after they bought the toys) rather than trying to sort their own shit out. Let’s be clear – people who cant or wont support themselves are NOT entitled to the same standard of living as people who do.

We had been married 15 years before we even got a 21″ TV. It was a tiny 14″ one before that. Fuck the bludgers. They shouldn’t have a playstation if they cannot afford their day to day bills. Priorities. Paula Bennett handled this the wrong way. She should have said ” I will look into it” and then come out and said that people have to take responsibility for their household budgets – work out what is a luxury and what is a necessity. A playstation is an ongoing cost – seen how much games costs? Even renting them is expensive ($10 a week from the Lower Hutt library). One a week for a year = two weeks rent.
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February 18, 2009 9:35am
Inventory2

Anyone else read Brian Rudman’s bilious column in the Herald this morning? Since the election, he has become one bitter and twisted “journo”!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/02/more-bile-from-rudman.html
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February 18, 2009 9:42am
Redbaiter

Pascal at 8:10

“Let me have a choice, damnit!”

A commendable motive but methinks the completely wrong approach. It should be-

“Stop interfering in my life and stealing my income you corrupt socialist slimeball..!!!”

You don’t plead with these controlling power obsessed totalitarian scum, you tell them their attempted tyranny is undemocratic and disgusting, and to get the fuck out of the way.

Wreck 1080 8:00

“Kate should go back to the slimey little hole she crawled out from.”

That’s more like it. These scum only govern us because we allow them too, and the situation today has only developed because we have let it. For evil to prosper, good men should do nothing.

Now, through trickery and fraud, one of them rules in the White House and is the most powerful politician in the world.

We clearly need a much stronger repellent if we are ever to be free of these cockroaches.

I’ll say it again- for evil to prosper, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing.
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February 18, 2009 9:50am
wreck1080

Greenfly, I have to say that you are crazy. You show no logical thinking, only idealogical beliefs and faith.

Here are the reasons.

The building of new schools is irrelevant to the argument. Labour has actually underfunded the education infrastructure over the last 10 years. One example, Papamoa in the Bay of Plenty (population about 20,000) has NO high school. A high school will not be built for at least 10 years (last I heard).

Your suggestion is to allow private schools to go broke and close. Now, who do you think will pay for the new schools, new teachers, and operational budgets for the once-private school students? Well, it will be you and me.

Lets say the government could save the private schools with a 20 million dollar assistance package.

But, rehousing private school students may cost 200 milllion dollars.

You greenfly, would rather spend 200 milllion dollars of taxpayer funding, simply because private schools don’t fit with your idealogical view. And, that shows a mean spiritedness. You also forget, people who send their kids to private schools are likely to pay a lot more tax too.
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February 18, 2009 10:17am
Glutaemus Maximus

Who has thought about their carbon footprint to-day?

At least at the Chelsea Flower Show they banned Patio Heaters, in order to save the World.

What have you done to-day to stop the planet from freezing?

Oops, sorry! warming.

Oops sorry! variable weather, always.

Just like it always was and always will be.
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February 18, 2009 10:18am
Ryan Sproull

GM,

The term you are searching for is “more extreme weather phenomena”. Varying, as always; but more extreme, not as always.
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February 18, 2009 10:24am
PhilBest

Following on the revelations from Pommieland about the 15-year old mum and her boyfriends aged 13 and upwards; I notice the DomPost is celebrating this sort of phenomenon on its front page this morning.

I commend Melanie Phillips’ opinion on this subject:

“Reaping the Whirlwind”
Daily Mail, 16 February 2009

http://www.melaniephillips.com/articles-new/?p=645

“The story of 13-year-old Alfie, who reportedly has become a father by 15-year-old Chantelle, is a fable for our tragically degraded times.

Most of the attention has focused upon Alfie, who looks about eight and doesn’t even understand the word ‘financial’. But while Alfie’s youth is exceptional, this situation is not.

Whether or not Alfie is the father of baby Maisie or whether that honour goes to one of Chantelle’s reputed other boyfriends, the fact is that the length and breadth of this country there are many Chantelles, having sex and often getting pregnant while under age.

Britain’s rate of teenage pregnancy is the highest in Western Europe. Each one of these cases is a personal tragedy, and not just for the babies who are thus conceived.

Children who bear children are condemned to a kind of half-life of adultified childhood and then infantilised adulthood, with a catastrophic disruption of their normal development to maturity.

The appalling rate of family breakdown is a crucial part of this story. It is linked to premature sexual activity, creating a vicious cycle of family fragmentation and teenage promiscuity. More and more individuals are being locked into this cycle of abandonment, emotional chaos and harm.

But that in turn is part of a wider and deeper breakdown of the fundamental moral understanding that once kept our society together.

There has been a profound loss of the very notions of self-restraint and boundaries of behaviour, promoted from the top by narcissistic liberals and funded at the bottom by welfare benefits which cushion people from the consequences of their actions.

The liberal intelligentsia pushed the idea that the worst things in the world were stigma and shame. Illegitimacy was accordingly abolished, lone mothers provided with welfare benefits and any talk about the advantages to children from marriage and sexual continence was to be banned as ‘judgmental’.

With all constraints on behaviour vilified as ‘moralising’, sex became treated merely as a pleasurable pastime devoid of any spiritual dimension.

As parents careered through serial sexual partnerships, putting their own short-term desires first and effectively behaving like children, they no longer wanted to be bothered with taking responsibility for their own offspring and so started treating them as if they were grown-up.

This was massively reinforced by the approach to sex education and contraception by schools and public health professionals, who treated children as quasi-adults capable of making their own life choices.

What they actually needed, as all children do, was firm and consistent boundaries which taught them that sex was properly an adult activity.

Instead, they were taught to treat sex a bit like bungee-jumping or paragliding – to have fun doing it, but to take precautions to avoid getting hurt.

But ‘hurt’ was defined almost entirely as teenage pregnancy. Children were told that sexually transmitted diseases could be treated, and there was no acknowledgement of the emotional harm of premature sexual activity.

In part, this arose from the defeatist belief that there was no alternative but to go along with the harm done to children by premature sexual activity. Underage sex was unavoidable, it was thought, and so the only thing to do was mitigate its worst effects.

But this attitude was accompanied by a deliberate attempt to destroy the notion of respectability. Not only are official blind eyes turned to breaches of the legal age of consent, but sex education actually targets teenagers and underage children with a direct attack on society’s fundamental values by promoting a libertarian agenda.

So sex education teaching manuals set out the full range of sexual positions, partnering and perversions. Much of it looks like propaganda for sexual licence; some of it is so exploitative it verges on the predatory.

Indeed, it is not so much education as indoctrination into ideas underlying the global family planning movement. The International Planned Parenthood Federation promotes sexual pleasure as a ‘valid sexual and reproductive health need for all young people’ – defined as aged ten to 24.

And the first director of the World Health Organisation, Dr Brock Chisholm, believed the barrier to civilised life was the notion of right and wrong, and wanted children to be freed from such prejudices through introducing sex education from the age of nine.

Many of our sex education programmes — some aimed at children even younger than nine — stem directly from these destructive and nihilistic ideas. Far from merely aiming to reduce teenage pregnancy rates, they are an attempt to restructure family life around a sexual free-for-all.

The key to it all is the marginalisation and exclusion of parental control. So underage children are provided not just with contraceptives but abortion counselling without their parents’ knowledge.

Recently, it was revealed that family doctors will even be paid bonuses — effectively bribes — for persuading teenagers to have long-lasting contraceptive implants and jabs behind their parents’ backs.

Our political and professional elites persist in believing that our horrendous rates of teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease are the result of ignorance among young people of the facts of life.

But a moment’s thought tells you that can’t be right because there has never been a time when so much sex education has been on offer. The truth is that the more sex education and contraception are provided to children and teenagers, the more they fall pregnant.

Indeed, studies have shown that where there is most access to contraception and sex education, sexual activity and conception and pregnancy rates go up…….

“……basic codes of decorum have gone out of the window, leading to scenes such as were described in a Sunday newspaper of children in Chantelle’s neighborhood having sex openly in the street like rutting animals.

The best way to tackle teenage promiscuity is through abstinence education. Where this is done well, as in some American schemes, it restores sexual restraint by instilling in young people a sense of selfrespect and self-worth.

But in Britain, this is regarded as unutterably shocking. A few years ago, sex education advisers in East Sussex told headteachers who booked a youth theatre group to deliver a message of sexual abstinence in their schools not to repeat the invitation because it was ‘unsuitable’ for pupils……”
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February 18, 2009 10:25am
Spam

Must say, I’m not impressed with Key’s interventionalist statements. Talk of bailing-out F&P. Stopping black-caps going to Zimbabwe. Gerry putting pressure on oil companies.
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February 18, 2009 10:40am
PhilBest

Wreck1080, Pascal, GetStaffed, Ross Miller, etc; very good points about the private education system, subsidies, choice, and vouchers. Redbaiter, quite so. It is long overdue for the Left to get some of their own medicine back in terms of loud, aggressive, activism.

After all that effort you guys went to to open Greenfly’s mind, do you think it made the slightest difference to him, or any of the Standardistas who might take a look at this thread?

P.J. O’Rourke hit the nail on the head; he said something like this; that if teachers unions so obviously expect you to choose for them NOT to educate your child if you are given the choice, what does that say about their honest opinion, deep down inside, of the education they are providing your child?

Note that a “school choice” system is taking off in Sweden (one of very few things they are doing right), probably because their public system got so bad that even the teachers themselves are coming to prefer working for a private school.

The comments of others above about the true cost of “free” state school education, are right. It is the same with “free” state hospital health; the cost to the taxpayer is much higher than the cost of obtaining the same “product” from the private sector.
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February 18, 2009 10:41am
infused

Comon guys

http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html
http://creativefreedom.org.nz/blackout.html

This is up there with the EFA. More posts on this please DF.

http://www.zoomin.co.nz now joins the black out club.
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February 18, 2009 10:50am
beanee

Did anyone see TV One news last night where they were talking about NZ teenage pregnancy off the back of the 13 y.o. british kid fathering a child?

They only went back to 2007 and found an 11 year old boy who fathered a child and a 12 year old girl (I think they said 12) who had given birth.

There were something like 45 under the age of 15 (i.e. 14 and under) who had kids in the last year.

I was gobsmacked!! Is this a new thing or has this been happening for years? I’ve got a 10 year old boy – I don’t want to be a granddad yet!!
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February 18, 2009 10:55am
JimBWarrior

The other side of WINZ

Today the pain got too much – WINZ client 323-170-397 – Invalid Beneficiary and FULL-Time Volunteer

Yesterday I took the step to use the remaining Health and Energy to

• Father my Son
• Take proper care of myself
• Take proper care of our home and garden
• Grow the Ration Shed to its full potential

• Go http://ration-shed-4-tier-foodbank.blogspot.com

• I can’t do this on my own – Its time and energy consuming and very good for 1000’s of FAMILIES

Onward – Ration Shed – Jim

At this time our main focus is to Build the **Equal Parenting **Petition to Strengthen **Equal Parenting** Orgs World-Wide and to Build new ones where there are none. Please consider hosting the petition on your websites and of course signing it.
Go – http://petitionthem .com/default. asp?sect= detail&pet=4275

________________________________________
From: JimBWarrior [mailto:jimbwarrior@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2009 9:23 p.m.
To: MP – NZ – the Hon. Paula Bennett – National – Waitakere – Minister for MSD; Colleen Sears – NZ – North Shore City – WINZ (colleen.sears001@msd.govt.nz)
Subject: NZ – Today the pain got too much – WINZ client 323-170-397

Principal Richard Coutt,
Attn – Minister Bennett – Please add to our current discussions re WINZ refusing to recognise our **Equal Parenting** Orders which has destroyed our FAMILY.

CC, Keith (Key in your envelope)
CC, WINZ – Case worker – Email and hand delivered 18thFeb09
CC, Dr. Matti

Tuesday 17th Feb 09

Today I walked from my part-time School Job.

I have mostly enjoyed my time at the school and will miss much of it.

I thank-you Richard for giving me the opportunity to help fund Javan’s (Now 13) **Equal Parenting**.

WINZ have never recognised those FAMILY Court Orders and thus I saw the job as a way to save the **Equal Parenting** of Javan and thus tolerated the pain I was often in.

That ended up being a lie from WINZ as my income is now less than when you gave me the opportunity.

However today, as many days, was not good

I went to work with reflux pain and a degree of angina, even though I had had no breakfast which is what I do to help control at least the reflux.

Usually waiting to have breakfast until I get back home about 1045

I had already taken my normal pills, but it was not enough.

I took 2 more and Angina spray on the way to work.

Things subsided a bit

I got out of the car to be greeted by **Come and see me after you have done the fields**

I did the normal things I do, needing more pills and spray about half way around, opened school gates, put out football post protectors, picked up rubbish and lost property that I found on the way around.

Put the tractor away, emptied rubbish, put lost property in the appropriate place.

Went off to find the boss who had said he wanted to see me.

Well he moaned (His words) at me about a few things.

Apparently I was meant to vacuum Rm 5/6 toilets which I did not hear him say the day before and I told him that.

He also pointed out some plant rubbish which he informed me I had left out since Friday.

I reminded him that both days he had given me tasks which left me no time to finish what I was doing

He seemed to accept my explanation and we went about our normal tasks, a bit ruffled.

I got on with blowing the areas I had worked on the previous day as normal.

Jobs I can only do up till 0830

Keith came up to me and told me not to do what I was doing and to go and pick up the rubbish that had been left from the day before.

What I was doing was part of that and to do it his way was to do the job twice and of course would mean leaving the area I had worked on yesterday untidy for another day.

He informed me that the rubbish truck was coming at half past 9 which I already knew.

It was currently about 0815 so I had plenty of time having planned what I was doing the day before.

By now things were getting pretty heated between us and I told him to stick his job as his organising costs me time I don’t have and came home.

Sad really but inevitable.

I can’t work with the pain and the current system

My Doctor has given me several notices that I should not be working or mowing my own lawns which WINZ have sighted

It takes me 7/8 goes to do my own lawns because the reflux pain simply gets to much.

As I understand things I have 12hrs credit from way before Christmas when working extra hours requested by Mr Coutts.

I have at least 13 days holiday pay

I expect WINZ to return my benefit to at least the amount paid before I was tricked back to work – WINZ have all appropriate Doctors details.

I enclose the master Key in Keiths envelope

Jim Bailey
6 Lancaster Rd
Beach Haven
North Shore City
Ph 482-2960
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February 18, 2009 10:55am
llew

I was gobsmacked!! Is this a new thing or has this been happening for years?

Er… it’s been happening forever.

Actually, (I’m 50ish) at college, one guy & his girlfriend had triplets!! They were 14 & 15. (At least two decades later, they were still together, the 3 boys doing well at school even.)
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February 18, 2009 11:02am
big bruv

Bill English once again dash’s the hopes of the middle class by stating that he has no plans to cut benefits in this years budget.

Cut them Bill, slash the bloody things and give the middle class decent tax cuts to compensate for the nine years of abuse they suffered at the hands of the fiscal fool.
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February 18, 2009 11:06am
philu

oh look..bb wants starvelings in the gutters..

..how victorian of him..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 18, 2009 11:19am
big bruv

Not all Phool, just the likes of you.

Actually, you prove the very point I make, the benefit should not be something that one can survive on, they should be able to exist (just) but it should be something that does not allow people to spend all day infesting the internet.
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February 18, 2009 11:29am
wreck1080

I see qantas are pulling out of Rotorua. This is a disaster for rotorua. Fares have actually been quite cheap because of the air nz/qantas competition. Now, Air NZ fares for rotorua flights will increase big time.

Rotorua has spent a lot of money upgrading the airport,even installing x-ray facilities for jet passengers. Now, those x-ray facilities will not be used since there will be no rotorua jet flights (except summer , but that is not definite).

The rotorua mayor optimistically calls this a ‘minor hiccup’, but, i’d say it is a major problem. Having expensive x-ray facilities that are not used? Runways that are not needed? A hyper-flash terminal servicing dumpy old ATR’s?
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February 18, 2009 11:29am
Murray

Will you be one of them phool?
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February 18, 2009 11:39am
side show bob

Listen to a radio interview from the states last night. There are rumblings from about 20 states that they are far from happy with Mr Obama’s rescue package. It seems the fine print contains some very nasty fishhooks that directly attacks the Constitution. A lot of these problems attack the right of the people to own guns. There is even talk of some states seceding from the federal government if this bill goes through. Obama’s honeymoon with the American people is over and the marriage is looking shaky. If interested google “infowars”.
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February 18, 2009 11:42am
greenfly

PhilBest said:
“After all that effort you guys went to to open Greenfly’s mind, do you think it made the slightest difference to him”
Yeah, thanks guys. Wreck1080 (clearly you’re a positivist, with a name like that) I certainly don’t wish “private schools to go broke and close”, I’m just curious as to why they would. Are they not being run efficiently and competently? Surely this is the essence of the Conservative Way – not having them ‘sucking from the dug of the State’ as I so often see written here on Kiwiblog. If you are propping them up, you are encouraging their inefficiency, yes? My personal opinion is that I support private schools, if I can use the term generally, but I’m cautious about ‘bailing them out’ so as not to have to replace them with State -run schools, sounds like the same slippery slope Key is traversing with his signals for bailing out F&P. I’m surprised you are not just as alarmed. Let’s bail everyone out, whether they deserve it or not! Are you sensing a pit-fall here?
Dime – thanks for the reminder of how the rabid right commentors ‘made shit up’ when their heroes were in Opposition, blaming whom ever they most disliked at the time for whatever irked them most – sigh those were the days! Now that the boot is on the other foot …. can’t have that can we. Fancy blaming Gerry for failing to do something he boasted he could. He’d have been better to button his lip (as I see he has now).
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February 18, 2009 11:48am
Jack5

Re Greenfly’s farewell at 9.07am: ka kite ano

He sounds more like a PC lefty than a Maori to me. Radio NZ staffer Greenfly? Or perhaps TV3 or TVNZ?
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February 18, 2009 11:50am
big bruv

It means “farewell” ?….I thought he was swearing.
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February 18, 2009 11:58am
Ross Miller

Greenfly …. re private (independent) schools …. have you not noticed. Your mob got us into a recession. People are loosing their jobs. There is less of the discretionary dollar to go around. The rolls in many private schools are dropping as parents pull their kids out because they simply cannot afford the fees. Private schools are generally efficient but they need fee paying pupils to cover the cost between what the Government gives them and the quality education they provide and if their rolls drop then its downsize the quality of the service (and the fall-off in roll numbers accelerates as those who can afford it go elesewhere) or they apply to integrate (and give a degree of independence) or they go bust like Hilltop.

The King’s, St Kents, St Cuths and Christs will, I suspect, always be there. But in the hard tiomes to come some (perhaps many) will go under simply because of an inability to maintain their pupil base.

And Government will be the loosers. They will loose the GST charged on fees (which is much larger than the $20m current government grant) and the influx of pupils into the state sector will push up cosrs there.

And Socialists will rejoice and be merry because their (wet) dreams have been realized.
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February 18, 2009 12:12pm
dime

i dont recall gerry saying he would regulate petrol prices.

he said he would put pressure on them.. bit of a difference there.

but anyway, nice change of tact from your indefensible position on private schools.
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February 18, 2009 12:21pm
dime

as for private schools not being efficient. if us “rich pricks” hadnt been taxed out of existance paying for every other asshole thats too lazy to work or too lazy to upskill, maybe we could pay more towards private school tuition?

only a socialist would think it fair that a person has to pay for other kids education without getting any help for his own kids.
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February 18, 2009 12:24pm
clintheine

Ahhh Greenfly greenfly…., you do keep strange bedfellows…. need I bring up Catherine “lived with a mountain” Delahunty??

Sing all together now… “I have dreamed on this mountain….”

Sheesh. That about sums up the mentality of you and your Green Party buddies! 🙂
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February 18, 2009 12:38pm
greenfly

To reiterate; I support the existance of private schools, as I presume you all do (does that include those established to promote the Muslim values or schools for the children of National Front children? Just floating that one by you – I don’t expect a response).
clintheine – can’t quite grasp your meaning – “need I bring up catherine delahunty” – why? have you swollowed her?
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February 18, 2009 1:20pm
dime

Greenfly – i dont care if someone opens an islamic school. it wont last, one of the kids will accidently blow it up 🙂

as for the national front – i suspect it would be illegal to open a school based on race? if a group of rednecks want to home school, theres noting stopping them…
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February 18, 2009 1:32pm
paradigm

I see the green nutbars were complaining about pies and cakes in school yesterday. Seems Rodney Hide decided to highlight a bit of hypocracy on their part:

“Hon Rodney Hide: I seek leave to table a document showing that for the Greens, it is OK for our kids to smoke dope, but what they cannot do is have a cake now and again.”

And dime, if you can have a Maori rugby team, why not a white school (other than the fact that Maori, being white, would still be elegible to enroll)?
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February 18, 2009 1:52pm
greenfly

dime – ahh! the openness of your mind! Refreshing. Wonder if anyone else cares to express their opinion on private Islamic schools in New Zealand, bearing in mind the flurry of comments earlier.
National Front schools? Why ever not. A collection of people who care deeply about the world their children will live in, strong views on seperatism, sounds like many existing private schools, doesn’t it? Would you condone Key bailing them out? of course you would! We are all New Zealanders after all. One Law for All.
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February 18, 2009 1:52pm
getstaffed

I had though that Delhunty’s singing was bottom of the barrel stuff, but greenflys attempted humour has plumbed depths beyond my very lowest expectation. Please don’t fead the sternorrhyncha.
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February 18, 2009 1:56pm
greenfly

paradigm – your and Hide’s comments are pure, unadulterated faecal matter (Hide’s will be Karitane yellow no doubt). Show us all where the Greens say ‘it’s ok for our kids to smoke dope’ – you’ll scuffle sideways, insult the Greens and me(no doubt) but you’ll not be able to do it. Your comments are pardonable, because you are dim and have no responsibility, but Hide’s, if what you say is accurate, are considerably worse and worthy of no respect at all. 🙂 Get busy!
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February 18, 2009 1:57pm
greenfly

getstaffed – yes, you’d set your expectations too high. Please don’t put me on a pedastal. I’m merely an insect; 6 legs, no brain to speak of, green blood, no heart. There’s nothing funny about aphids.
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February 18, 2009 2:00pm
Brian Smaller

Greenfly = you obviously know nothing about private schools. Why don’t you ask your Green MP with a first name of Sue about them – her son was at the same private school that my son went to. Fucking green hypocrites.
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February 18, 2009 2:03pm
gd

As the product of a private school and having sent my 2 children to a private school I have long suspected that not only do private school produce a better result pound for pound but at a significantly lower cost.

I would live to see some independent research ( not some Dept of Ed rubbish).

Of course those who send their children to private schools subsidise those who dont fact of life But rather than governments recognise this ( they used to in the 60s by way of a tax deduction) they continue to double dip whilst blathering on about user pays crapola.

Its a case of the big green eyed monster with the Socialists they hate success and they hate the successful They champion losers like themselves as they have the most terrible inferiority complex
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February 18, 2009 2:13pm
georgebolwing

Poor Rodney Hide.

The great crusader for freedom is reduced to moving the following motion in Parliament:

That pursuant to section 78B of the Dog Control Act 1996, this House approve the Dog Control (Perro de Presa Canario) Order 2008, made under section 78A of that Act.
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February 18, 2009 2:13pm
dime

“National Front schools? Why ever not. A collection of people who care deeply about the world their children will live in, strong views on seperatism, sounds like many existing private schools, doesn’t it?”

you equate private schools with white supremacist groups?

thats kinda weird
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February 18, 2009 2:18pm
Brian Smaller

The best thing about private schools is that the teachers spend almost all their class time teaching. They don’t spend half of it doing discipline or trying to get kids who have been up all night playing playstation to concentrate. At both my son and daughter’s current and past schools, the average student is up about the 70th percentile mark of the state schools.
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February 18, 2009 2:19pm
greenfly

absolutely brian. Why do you think I’m hypocritical about private schools?
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February 18, 2009 2:22pm
grumpyoldhori

Philbest, you posted )The best way to tackle teenage promiscuity is through abstinence education. Where this is done well, as in some American schemes, it restores sexual restraint by instilling in young people a sense of selfrespect and self-worth.)

The abstinence that that woman Palin believes in, funny how it did not work for her or her daughter.
Strange how the religious types believe if their kids know nothing about contraception they will not have sex.
Does not work so well in the bible belt does it ?
Even with purity balls and young girls pledging their virginity to their fathers.
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February 18, 2009 2:34pm
Patrick Starr

Coventry @8.41 “Maybe it was the spelling mistakes & punctuation she didn’t like ?”

If you saw the bail submission she wrote on behalf of Viliami Halohalo you’d know she isn’t all that particular
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February 18, 2009 2:49pm
Ryan Sproull

Abstinence education is a contradiction in terms.

You can preach abstinence, and you can teach about sex, but you can’t teach abstinence – except in so far as any comprehensive education about the facts of sex and sexual hygiene will inevitably make clear that if you don’t have sex, you won’t get pregnant and will have a much lower chance of catching STIs.
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February 18, 2009 2:52pm
big bruv

Goodness me, it seems that Tony Ryall has stumbled across information that proves the last Labour government was falsifying Hospital waiting lists.

Will the media pick up on this?
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February 18, 2009 2:54pm
dime

Bruv – nothing surprises me about our last government.

Its all about trust though!
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February 18, 2009 3:01pm
slijmbal

Need to distinguish between >= 16 promiscuity and underage sex

Underage needs to be made as stigmatic as possible – it is currently almost treated as acceptable eg doctors not allowed to tell parents that underage kids are having sex for instance. They’re minors for god’s sake.

>= 16 – not convinced you can just do a simple keep it in the trousers message as we had that in spades (in the 70s) but it didn’t have any effect – (we were catholics so had been told it was so bad that we knew it couldn’t be) – however we did receive strong messages around VD and contraception – so few young pregnancies

we also had a very strong message that being either a young or single parent was dumb, dumb, dumb and the benefits had not got to the stages that they are now and thus there was no incentive to become a parent.
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February 18, 2009 3:07pm
Brian Smaller

Greenfly = you obviously know nothing about private schools. Why don’t you ask your Green MP with a first name of Sue about them – her son was at the same private school that my son went to. Fucking green hypocrites.

yes greenfly – I think greens are hypocrites. But that is because almost every Green supporter I meet in normal life drives to work rather than bike, buys their lunch rather make their own, buys vegetables from a shop rather than grow their own, takes overseas holidays burning all that carbon rather than sitting at home tending their garden etc etc.

Oh, and send their kid to a private religious school.
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February 18, 2009 3:16pm
Brian Smaller

Underage sex isn’t the problem – it is underage parents. Take any financial support from the State away from them and i think that most will stop having babies. Would work better than abstinance rings and condoms – but perhaps not as well as a docking ring.
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February 18, 2009 3:19pm
getstaffed

falsifying Hospital waiting lists

what?!? after they tossed 10’s of thousands of kiwis off those lists?
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February 18, 2009 3:20pm
Ryan Sproull

If I recall correctly from the political forum at Parachute, the Green Party supports state funding for non-mainstream schools, including religious schools. Their policy may have changed in the last four years, but that’s what Tanczos said then. So sending their kids to religious schools isn’t really hypocritical.
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February 18, 2009 3:45pm
maurieo

Are posters suggesting that Private Schools are totally funded from fees and donations. It is my understanding that so called Private Schools are funded in part by the taxpayer particularly teachers salaries and that the school fees pay for the extra items over and above that funding. Private Schools have better facilities because of the extra funding they receive by way of fees. Notably high decile state schools who charge a higher activity fee have better facilities than lower decile schools whose parents have a smaller disposable income.

There are also intergated special character schools that are almost fully state funded and charge a school fee that enables the delivery of slightly better facilities than a standard state school.

There is a school of thought that suggests that so called private schools through various strategies achieve good academic results at the secondary level however their graduates have a higher drop out rate at the tertiary level where a high degree of self discipline is needed to succeed.
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February 18, 2009 3:46pm
Ross Miller

More on independant schools and socialists …. would it be wrong to suggest the ‘H’ word could be fairly levied against the senior Labour MP (still there) who choose to send his boy to the independant school I was associated with rather than entrust his education to his local state school with which we shared a common boundary?

Verrily a case of do as I say rather than do as I do.

‘H’ word repeated.
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February 18, 2009 3:47pm
wreck1080

What do you have to do to go to jail in this country? Quite a lot according to a stupid judge. …this ‘adult’ could quite easily have killed his victim ………I am absolutely appalled that such a person did not get imprisoned for at least 3 years….

A Christchurch boy-racer who beat, kicked and robbed a man who photographed him doing wheelies was today sentenced to home detention and community work.
…
A Christchurch boy-racer who beat, kicked and robbed a man who photographed him doing wheelies was today sentenced to home detention and community work.
…
Herrick was doing wheelies in the street when the victim, who lives or works nearby, photographed him to get a picture of the car’s licence plate.

“You must have seen this, so you parked your vehicle, got out, and as the victim was walking away you punched him twice in the side of the head and he fell to the ground.

“While he was on the ground you kicked him and then picked up the camera and left.
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February 18, 2009 4:13pm
wikiriwhis business

I just read Cactus Kates letter to her employees. A very illuminating history of herself and Australia.

But guess what…. she’s a he!

“Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the GUY that made all the right decisions and saved HIS money, have to bail-out all the people who didn’t.”

I must say, If he had of gone through everything to get ahead as a woman I would have been totally in awe.

But the whole truth is, men can go without accessories. Women can’t unless children are involved.
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February 18, 2009 4:43pm
dime

WHAT THE HELL is Abstinence education?????

If it wasnt for girls with low self esteem and daddy issues, Dime would never get laid!

I find getting them liquored up also helps 🙂
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February 18, 2009 4:52pm
Rex Widerstrom

On the topic of the WINZ letter:

1. I doubt the utter failure of garmmar and spelling is due to repetition of the client’s errors. But let’s be charitable and say it is. I deal with people who’re in jail and thus, mostly, not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Often I have to take what they say and repeat it back to them. Including grammatical and spelling errors in any letter would only make me look ignorant (as it undoubtedly does the WINZ case officer) and perpetuate ignorance. If he doesn’t know any better then what’s he doing in a job when, say, Madeleine above is out of work, could easily do his job and, based on what she’s written, has an IQ well on the other side of the bell curve?

2. Mostly it’s sound advice and in principle it’s all correct. But what sort of system suggests a beneficiary goes to a loan shark and pays 20% or more interest, digging themselves a deeper hole?! That’s the antithesis of teaching prudent money management. Sell the luxuries (not pawn them… again the interest rates are sheer usury), renegotiate the repayments, then take out a loan (not a grant) from WINZ to get back on track, to be repaid from the benefit. In the event the beneficiary gets a job the debt is shifted to the IRD who collect it from wages, giving the taxpayer absolute security on getting repaid.
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February 18, 2009 4:55pm
Right of way is Way of Right

That opinion poll on TV3 tonight is an absolute cracker!! Love it!!
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February 18, 2009 6:05pm
aardvark

Patrick — I’m sorry that I’m somewhat agnostic in my politics and don’t sing the right-wing’s praises even when they’re wrong.

I now this is a right-leaning blog but I prefer to be somewhat more balanced than most when it comes to my comments on MPs. I don’t care what party they’re in, if they’re being dim-bulbs and acting like an idiot I’m not going to let political ideology get in the way of well-deserved criticism.

I realise you may not understand that.
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February 18, 2009 8:24pm
Pascal

greenfly:

does that include those established to promote the Muslim values or schools for the children of National Front children?

Yes, if parents have a choice of sending their children to any school of their choosing. I would not send my children to either of those schools, but then, I wouldn’t expect a Muslim parent to send their child to a Christian school.
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February 18, 2009 10:36pm
Patrick Starr

aardvark – I dont really know what you’re on about ……..but If you’re responding to my 7.59am you really need to read the comment above yours – that I was responding to
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February 19, 2009 12:02am
clintheine

Greenfly…. you never did address my point about dear Catherine. How could you let her get into parliament?

Morris dancing is bad enough, but the singing????
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February 19, 2009 3:01am
greenfly

clintheine – you had a point (as opposed to a jibe) about Catherine? You credit me with a great deal, thinking that I could stop someone (anyone) getting into parliament (thanks for that though. there are others here whose opinion of me isn’t as high as yours). I certainly would put the brakes on Roger Douglas and others, had I that ability!
Morris dancing .. pales into insignificance beside the gay display from Key and his transgender friends, doesn’t it 🙂
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February 19, 2009 10:10am

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