General Debate 27 January 2009

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wreck1080

Recession to start today…

The xmas credit card bills are coming in, holidays are mostly over, the exchange rate is about to push imported products up 30%, and farmer payouts are diving.

My prediction is for retail spending to crash from this week onward.
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January 27, 2009 7:55am
Inventory2

South Africa’s comprehensive demolition of the Aussies last night evoked memories of another Australia Day massacre in Adelaide

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/01/advance-australia-fair-2.html
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January 27, 2009 8:01am
petal

@wreck – it’s already started. we just decided to lower our prices on service work yesterday on work that people wouldn’t even argue over 6 months ago – now we have 4 out of 5 deferring or going to competitors.
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January 27, 2009 8:49am
big bruv

When people start throwing themselves buses or jumping off bridges I hope that the left are honest enough to admit that their failed and fucked up ideology is what caused this melt down.
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January 27, 2009 9:03am
Redbaiter

Notice the NZ Herald “journalists”, those Pravda style fakes, continue to worship Obama in a disgusting abdication of their duty. The articles by Audrey Young and Paul Holmes were utterly nauseating. Young compliments Obama on his openness, when the bat eared thug has hidden almost every facet of his past from public view and cannot even prove he was born in the US as the Constitution requires. Holmes says he brings hope, even when Obama’s public approval rating has dropped 15 points in a week, and his bumbling attempts at dealing with the financial collapse only make the situation so much worse. Disgusting. I read in various places that the Herald is going under. Can’t happen soon enough for me. Hopeless left wing propaganda rag.
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January 27, 2009 9:27am
MyNameIsJack

That’s right Red, America and the world would be so much better off if only the wannabe from Wassilla had made it to the whitehouse. She didn’t know much, but she did know where her birth certificate was.

Meanwhile, in the real world, black test scores have improved in the wake of Obama’s election win.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/education/23gap.html?_r=1

The taliban have become more desperate since they have lost their greatest incentive to join, GWB.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012401703.html

And finally, a dictator has declaed Obama is “arrogant” for daring to implement his policies and refusing to bow down to myth merchants,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7849600.stm

Which newspapers did the wasilla wannabe read? All of them, righht.
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January 27, 2009 10:05am
MyNameIsJack

big bruv (2376) Vote: 1 1 Says:

January 27th, 2009 at 9:03 am
When people start throwing themselves buses or jumping off bridges I hope that the left are honest enough to admit that their failed and fucked up ideology is what caused this melt down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lefties running merchant banks? Who would have thought it?
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January 27, 2009 10:06am
womack

MNIJ

yes, it’s called Other Peoples Money and there are plenty of individuals and family’s who are lefty’s and are in merchant banks.
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January 27, 2009 10:22am
grumpyoldhori

An Israeli civil war ?
It will be interesting if Israel attempts to move those so called settlers from the West bank, since so many of the IDF cannot be trusted to carry out their orders in regard to removing settlers from Arab land.
Fourteen days in the glasshouse for mutiny while armed by some members of the IDF in refusing orders to remove settlers.
What a joke, mutiny should bring five years of cleaning the cell floor.

So it will be a choice of a civil war between the settlers and the IDF, or they will have to do a bit of religious cleansing in removing all Arabs from the west bank.

Nutters with nukes, yep there are some in the Middle East.
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January 27, 2009 10:36am
grumpyoldhori

big bruv, Iceland had a free market type government, you believe they are doing well ?
Are free market types ever to blame ?
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January 27, 2009 10:39am
PhilBest

Ah, Iceland.

Here’s how it SHOULD work under a Free Market, Grumpy.

1) Iceland’s banks do stupid things
2) Iceland’s banks fall over
3) The customers of Iceland’s banks lose money, learn to be more careful next time.

Here’s how it DID work:

1) Iceland’s banks do stupid things
2) Iceland’s government guarantees Iceland’s banks debts
3) Iceland’s banks continue doing stupid things and rake in more customers than they ever would have without a State guarantee
4) When Iceland’s banks do finally go smash, the resultant debt hanging around the neck of the State, is something like 30 times as great as Iceland’s GDP.

I ask you, who apart from economically pigshit-ignorant socialist politicians would ever walk into such an open cesspit?
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January 27, 2009 10:47am
MyNameIsJack

“I ask you, who apart from economically pigshit-ignorant socialist politicians would ever walk into such an open cesspit?”

GWBush for one.
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January 27, 2009 10:50am
dime

Socialists love when a free market economy fails.. they get to go “see! its bad!”

course the alternative is living in poverty with no chance of success.. unless you one of the elite lefties… FUN!

Phil – thanks for that info the other day! always interesting!
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January 27, 2009 10:54am
PhilBest

Look, a BIIIIG, BIIIIG lesson that we all need to learn from this current crisis, and ESPECIALLY nanny state socialists need to learn this; the sector of the economy that deals with mortgage finance, is HUGE; many times bigger than GDP. Politicians are pissing into the wind thinking they can do “bailouts” using taxpayers money or borrowed money, or printed money; to turn around a collapse in this sector.

You let the problem develop in the FIRST place, you are toast. End of story. Well, not quite, as long as you delay the end of the story, you make the eventual ending worse for that.

It is not as if the politicians who were in charge all these years were not being warned about the problem that was looming.

“I, Greenspan” by Bill Bonner

http://www.lewrockwell.com/bonner/bonner188.html

– this is a satire, but I am starting to think it has touched exactly on the truth. Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernancke, and other significant figures in US Reserve Banking, came from very rightwing economic, Ayn Randish backgrounds. What if these people KNOW they are bringing about a collapse in the paper money system, and MEAN to do so, so that Ayn Rand libertarianism might prevail in the end, like in “Atlas Shrugged”? Tee hee hee……..
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January 27, 2009 10:57am
MyNameIsJack

And those on the Right confuse free market with perfect market.

Lack of regulation does not, in itself, do anything to benefit an economy.

And never forget, it was a command economy that one WW2.
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January 27, 2009 11:03am
PhilBest

Redbaiter (4957) Vote: 6 1 Says:

January 27th, 2009 at 9:27 am
“Notice the NZ Herald “journalists”, those Pravda style fakes, continue to worship Obama in a disgusting abdication of their duty. The articles by Audrey Young and Paul Holmes were utterly nauseating. Young compliments Obama on his openness, when the bat eared thug has hidden almost every facet of his past from public view and cannot even prove he was born in the US as the Constitution requires. Holmes says he brings hope, even when Obama’s public approval rating has dropped 15 points in a week, and his bumbling attempts at dealing with the financial collapse only make the situation so much worse. Disgusting. I read in various places that the Herald is going under. Can’t happen soon enough for me. Hopeless left wing propaganda rag.”

The same goes for the “New York Times”, too, eh, Redbaiter………the demise of the whole lefty-dominated “mainstream” media sector can’t come too soon. I sadly admit I was wrong about its ability to get this white-ant Marxist stooge into the White House, I thought they had lost that power in 2004, when “the Pyjamahideen” blogosphere beat the MSM and buried their lies about G W Bush, and all the anti-Bush hype failed……I honestly thought we were getting a rerun of that, and Obama was going to be the Black John Kerry.

The Obama Presidency will be “interesting times”.

As Victor Davis Hanson said:

“…..the suicide of both print and electronic journalism has ensured that, should Barack Obama be elected president, the public will only then learn what they should have known far earlier about their commander-in-chief — but in circumstances and from sources they may well regret…..”

And as Mark Steyn said:

“……The Obamacons — that’s to say, conservatives hot for Barack- – justify their decision to support a big-spending big-government Democrat with the most liberal voting record in the Senate by “hoping” that he doesn’t mean it, by “hoping” that he’ll “change” in office. “I sure hope Obama is more open, centrist, sensible,” declared reformed conservative Ken Adelman, “than his liberal record indicates.”

He’s “hoping” that Obama will buck not just Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and the rest of the gang but also his voting record, his personal address book, and his entire adult life. Good luck betting the future on that……”
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January 27, 2009 11:10am
CraigM

“Meanwhile, in the real world, black test scores have improved in the wake of Obama’s election win.”

Oh please, come on. Do you even have to be told the difference between news and propoganda?

At least give it a few years and lets’ see what effect Barry’s election has had on the black american population re prison numbers, high school graduates, employment, violent crime stats etc…

Heck, I’d be happy to wait just until the school year ends in May and see if there is a noticable difference.

I would be very happy to see “any” kids improve at school, but if barry can help raise self-esteem in a certain group that’s fantastic. Hopefully it will rub off on the other 86% of the population. But taking such headlines/stories seriously after such a short time……..be smart.

The NY Times, Washington Post and the BBC all run stories favourable to Barry. Who’d have thunk it. I’m shocked.
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January 27, 2009 11:15am
MyNameIsJack

Look at US debt to GDP ratios and see who the real big spenders are – the greatest accelleration has been under Reagan and Shrub.

Since 1945, Republican presidents have borrowed more than Democratic presidents regardless of the inflation rate.

Sorry to let facts get in the way of your prejudices.
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January 27, 2009 11:16am
AG

“Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernancke, and other significant figures in US Reserve Banking, came from very rightwing economic, Ayn Randish backgrounds. What if these people KNOW they are bringing about a collapse in the paper money system, and MEAN to do so, so that Ayn Rand libertarianism might prevail in the end, like in “Atlas Shrugged”? Tee hee hee……..”

It is necessary to destroy the economy in order to save it … hilarious.
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January 27, 2009 11:25am
dime

MyNameIsJack – have they borrowed more cause ummmm they dont overtax everyone? Clinton had a pretty sweet time in office.. economy booming etc.. was that set up by republicans? or was it all clinton?
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January 27, 2009 11:29am
LUCY

We probably dont talk about this but when was the last time one of you put in an insurance claim? Until recently my one and only was with Tower when my ‘black pipes’ burst. (anyone who has a house built in the late 80’s early 90’s will know what I mean) Anyway to cut a long story short the majority of water pipes in my house all ruptured at once. the mess was unbelievable and it took 4 months to put right. I paid to have All of the pipes replaced so this would never happen again. Guess what? they missed a pipe. Of course it leaked. The plumbing (my responsiblity) has been fixed. The insurance? well were do I start. The assesor (whocam out 2 days before the plumber) doesnt know who I am, the plunber who he spoke to about the damage is dreaming. The report he was supposed to have loidged doesnt exist. The Call centre people with Tower have been great and arranged for another assesor who was to ring me last Friday and guess what he didnt. So……..

I have a large whole in the ceiling in my laundry, another hole behind my loo and no-one is answering my calls. The moral of this story is be very very very careful who you have as your insurance company. Tower was a good company but now……
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January 27, 2009 11:33am
Sector 7g

I notice in the Herald today there is a story of how a 16 year old boy overpowered a female officer and caused horrific facial injuries.
“She was yelling, ‘Please don’t hit me… please help’,”

“The guy was straddling her, just beating her face – left, right, left, right.”

Interesting to note that the boy had twice held up the corner store that day and only on the second occasion were the police called, “as it has happened before,” the shop keeper said.
What did he steal?
A bag of chips.

Criminals are really put off by the possible consequences of their actions in New Zealand aye…
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January 27, 2009 12:17pm
LUCY

and this is the ‘kinder genteler society that was to be born with the left and the greens. Oh wait he is 16 so he only had 9 years of the left telling parents/society how to act. Before that he may have had parentswho where supposed to be reponsible.
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January 27, 2009 12:25pm
LUCY

By the way still on hold withTower for my claim. Never mind it has only been four hours that I have been trying to get hold of them and only 30mins on hold this time. Honestly it was the assors company that I couldnt get through to before but now well its Tower as well never mind we are just the mugs who pay the premiums. How dare we have an actual claim!!!!!!!
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January 27, 2009 12:30pm
CraigM

“PELOSI SAYS BIRTH CONTROL WILL HELP ECONOMY”

Unfrikkinbelievable. ‘One child’ policy on the way courtesay of the Dems?

Hundreds of millions of dollars to expand family planning services. – Is that code for even more abortions?

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashpbc.htm

Where do you even start to respond to this kind of stupidity?

Heaven.Help.The.USA.
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January 27, 2009 12:34pm
Michael M Wilson

Some good news finally

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU0901/S00180.htm

New Zealand beast Australia to go qualify for the World Junior Championship of American Football.
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January 27, 2009 12:36pm
wikiriwhis business

Well,, John keys has decided the Greens are ok after all.

Now I know for sure collusion and agendas are real as the conspiracy theories that fuel them.

The Greens agenda is a backbone to the NWO and this proves the Nats are a part of that. If you can’t see it, the only person with vision is the one eyed man himself.

The Nats don’t need the Greens. Keys didn’t need to get into bed with Helen about the anti smacking either.

You can now not tell me there is no conspiracy in the NZ govt.
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January 27, 2009 12:41pm
LUCY

Still on hold with Tower claims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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January 27, 2009 12:44pm
wikiriwhis business

Dime,,

It was mostly Clinton

He inherited a failing economy from the first Bush (as always happens with them) and cut military spending to divert funding in to more economically viable ventures. Bush jnr authorised a new aircraft carrier (named after his dad) that cost billions and diverted funds from starving mouths. As usual.
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January 27, 2009 12:47pm
wikiriwhis business

We’re with you Lucy!!!!!

Umm, would it be better to make a visit to their office???
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January 27, 2009 12:48pm
Sector 7g

Wiki- Yeah, Bush was a huge money waster, i mean, his inauguration cost damn near $43 million. Lucky Obama is here to redistribute that wasted spending into starving mouths. How many hot dogs can $120 million get you?
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January 27, 2009 12:54pm
wikiriwhis business

$120m isn’t a drop in the bucket, but the vast tax base of America makes it more viable.

It was a celebration the suffering citizens of America wanted and deserved.

But probably a good case not to go Republic ourselves, if our unworthy politicians are going to get that outrageous treatment every three years.

I would say I thought an inaugaration that size would only be for a new president. Not a returning incumbent as I have recently learned. I don’t think thats right. So that does make your hot dog comment very relevant.
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January 27, 2009 1:04pm
baxter

LUCY:……….A friend of mine told me she had been prevailed upon and was getting insulation in her ceiling. She did so three weeks before going on vacation in Aussie. Her ceiling collapsed due to a leaking pipe while she was away. The builder said the water buildup would have taken about three weeks. Massive damage I don’t know how she is getting on with her Insurance company.
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January 27, 2009 1:09pm
baxter

REDJACK’S Black Messiah was on the news today advocating American Leadership in fighting Global Warming. It seems he will be using his undoubted oratorial ability to save the planet. The Herald’s most famous New Zealander will be green with envy especially if he gets a gong for fraud which outshines hers.
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January 27, 2009 1:28pm
LUCY

Yipee got through!!!!!!!. The second insurance accessor is coming around at 4.30pm. Now lets hope that although he works for the same company (Which I will name if need be) that he will not follow in the other fellows footsteps the chap who could not, one week later remember (a) coming around to access the damage (b) talking to the plumber!!!!!! (what was he on!). Consequently he did not put in a report. Thank god the plumber had spoken to him on the day or I would have thought I was going mad.

Anyway itwll be interesting to see what happens.

Baxter I know what your friend is going through and that is what is so frustrating.

18months ago ALL my down stairs pipes burst. Much like your friends however the Insurance company (Tower) and the accessor in that instance where WONDERFUL and yet there was massive damage and it took 4 months to fix. (My first ever claim).
I thought that I had all the pipes fixed (at my expensive of course) but it turned out that one pipe behind the loo was missed. And of course it burst.

Now there is a whole in the laundry ceiling and one behind the loo, nothing at all like what happened before.

My point is last time although it was hell living with no floor,ceiling or walls and damp everywhere for four months the Insurance company, the accessor, builders, electricians chemdry etc made it bearable by being extremely professional and efficient.
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January 27, 2009 1:53pm
Brian Smaller

Lefties running merchant banks? Who would have thought it?

Well Obama’s main financial advisor pre-election was CEO of Freddie Mac (or the other one). So yes, i would believe it.

And other things. Obama authorised a missile strike on Taliban that killed innocent civilians. OBAMA LIED, PEOPLE DIED!!

Where is the anti-war condemnation of this murderer by those on the left?
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January 27, 2009 1:55pm
Brian Smaller

LUCY – I had some of that black piping burst in a wall of one of my flats a few years back. Cost me two grand to replace all the piping and fix the walls I had to remove. Fortunately the tenant was quick thinking enough to rush outside and turn the water off at the toby. For that alone I gave her a weeks free rent.
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January 27, 2009 1:58pm
bearhunter

I had to laugh when I read this:

The Labour-led Government lost touch with the electorate and needs to spend its time in opposition reconnecting with it, leader Phil Goff says.

Mr Goff’s comments came in Auckland at the party’s first caucus meeting for the year.

It was the first time the caucus has met outside Wellington for the past nine years and Mr Goff said it would not be the last as the party sought to reconnect with its support base.

“I think the very fact that you lose an election indicates that you’ve lost your connection with vital areas of the electorate that you need to win in order to be in government,” he said.

“We’ve got to reconnect with the aspirations, the hopes, the needs, the concerns of those people and that’s the opportunity that you have in opposition.”

I made exactly that poiont to a Labour person I met at a bar one night. He immediately rounded on me and accused me of not knowing what I was talking about and of arrogance (clearly he thought irony was something like goldy but not as valuable).

Anyway, I look forward to the next season of Mastermind – Name? Phil Goff. Specialist subject? The bleeding obvious.
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January 27, 2009 2:57pm
big bruv

Of course the best news of the last week is that Cindy Kiro is not having her contract renewed.

Is there anybody dumb enough to give her a new job?
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January 27, 2009 3:54pm
johnbt

Craig M., I dont see how birth control will help an economy. In fact it is more likely to do the reverse. However, the world population is growing at a rate close to the entire population of NZ every two weeks. That’s the same as NZ and Australia every 3 months. Or another China in 12 to 14 years.
The major worry for the planet should be population growth. Reverse that and most of our other problems will be lessened.
Two million people every week is not sustainable.
And what exactly is the problem with fewer Americans?
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January 27, 2009 3:54pm
big bruv

So John Key is in PNG for the pacific forum, I hope the first thing he tells the other “leaders” is that for the foreseeable future they are going to have to make it on their own.

Key needs to be focusing his efforts on getting this country going again without the burden of having to give handouts to Pacific nations.
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January 27, 2009 4:03pm
mike12

Bloody hilarious from Goff.
Labour spent too much time recruiting folks from the fringe of society and are so dominated by the rainbow / feminist factions and now want to reconnect with mainstream NZers … priceless
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January 27, 2009 4:06pm
bearhunter

Hang on Mike, the hilarity just never stops; this from ZB:

The Labour Party is discussing how it can help small businesses suffering in the recession. The party is holding its first caucus meeting of 2009 at Waipuna Lodge in Auckland today.

Labour party leader Phil Goff says small businesses are the core of the employment market and Labour will look at how it can help them ride out the economic downturn.

He says the Government made a mistake by cutting research and development and axing tax credits.

Goff has clearly decided that his future lies in the world of stand up comedy.
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January 27, 2009 4:13pm
wikiriwhis business

On the other side of Lucy’s problem, I see the leaky roof contractors are being hauled before the courts.

There might be justice in the world after all.
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January 27, 2009 4:14pm
MyNameIsJack

Anyone interested in knowing what Citigroup has done with its US$50 billion should look no further than here.

http://www.dassaultfalcon.com/aircraft/7x/

http://www.freep.com/article/20090126/NEWS15/90126063/?imw=Y

Is there any capitalist brave enogh to shout “STOP!”?

This is the legacy of GWB.
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January 27, 2009 4:24pm
grumpyoldhori

Lucy, pipes in hidden places.
Make damn sure that any pipe replaced in hidden away places is replaced with copper.
Even if the plumber swears by his old granma’s last wish that the new plastic stuff will do the job, get copper installed.
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January 27, 2009 4:47pm
Colonel Masters

“We’re actually a party that’s very proud of its achievements in government”

Well, there’s a big problem for a start!
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January 27, 2009 4:49pm
reid

Anyone interested in the economy should take a look at this webcast, free but you have to register.

It’s a bit of an advertorial after 35 mins, but up to there, has some good analysis.
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January 27, 2009 6:07pm
Viking2

Govt task force on health

Tuesday, 27, Jan, 2009 2:20PM

The Government has announced a high powered ministerial task force to sharpen the focus of health delivery in the public system.

Heath Minister Tony Ryall has charged the group with coming up with a way of giving doctors and nurses more say in the health system. Mr Ryall says it is part of a commitment National gave during the election campaign to improve frontline services. He believes users of the system want less bureaucracy and waste, with patients being treated sooner and better.

The task force is part of the agreement National reached with the ACT Party. It will be headed by former Treasury Secretary Murray Horn and will include the director general of health and other health professionals.

It will report back to the Government within six months.

9 years as health spokesman and lots to say about what was wrong (mostly correctly) and this useless no.3 brat is now employing consultants to determine what needs to be fixed. Little Lord Founteroy (alias Ryall MP.) is no better than his predecessors. He has absolutely no idea just like the useless minister for Housing. Where did the Nats get these useless people from and why doesn’t key get rid of them and put people there that have enough intellect to know what to do?
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January 27, 2009 6:09pm
maurieo

The letter below appeared in the Waikato Times of 26 January from a HCC Councillor. Is it an example of democracy in action?

Wasted meetings

I get frustrated when people accuse the Hamilton City Council of not consulting with the community and I’m referring to M Clark’s letter (Waikato Times, January 20) regarding the Victoria St upgrade.

I think we over-consult at times. A perfect example was the recent Hamilton urban growth strategy meetings. For the first, one person turned up. The second, five people. The third, finally about 40 turned up. That’s three meetings. All were advertised and all were trying to get feedback from you, the community, on what you, the community, wanted.

The amount of work staff put into these meetings, not to mention the cost of them, was wasted.

I wanted only one meeting to be held at the council reception lounge but a few other councillors thought we should have more they were trying to consult with everyone.

[maurieo: IMO this defines a failled consultation. In cases where I have been required to undertake consultation for RMA purposes Council requires that I identify affected parties and consult with them, in some instances Council identifies the people that must be consulted. Perhaps there is a different set of rules for Councils.

I have in the past given submissions to Local Body Hearings, in most instances I was one of the few people who weren’t paid to be there, there were constant references to keeping my submision brief so the committee wouldn’t be late for their free lunch. Unless someone is really passionate about an issue they are not going to make a submission in there own time and at there own cost. In one instance Council wanted 10 copies of the written submision]

As for the Victoria St consultation, there’s been plenty. Expos, letters, full page ads, websites, flyers, stands in libraries, City News, I’ve gone out on the ground personally to inform and now there’s an office just so people can go and complain about the work being done.

[maurieo: “an office just so people can go and complain” what about those who want to give positive feedback]

How much more consulting do you need? How about taking some initiative and getting involved with your city at the start of something? Although, ironically, I note that M Clark lives in Cambridge.

[maurieo: I am a Hamilton rate payer and I dont live in Hamilton does that mean I am not entitled to a say]

ANGELA O’LEARY

Hamilton City Councillor

[maurieo: We expect our elected representatives to be leaders, we deserve better than this. If I were able to vote in the HCC elections I know at least one Councillor that wouldn’t get my vote. I am hopeful that changes to the RMA will allow for a more equitable consultation process ]
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January 27, 2009 8:21pm

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