General Debate 18 January 2009

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billyborker

Israel “defends” itself by banning political parties. Democratic Israel? Yeah, right!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090116.EARABS16/TPStory/Comment

International Jewish Conspiracy attacks Southland business.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4822468a11.html

Another caller said they had got an answerphone: “Didn’t leave a message, though, couldn’t think of anything pithy yet not obscene to say. I’ll phone back tomorrow and have my grandchildren sing Am Yisrael Chai. That’ll do it!!”

Too right, much more important that a couple of Christ Killers get a latte than someone takes a stand against the murder of children.

[DPF: And 20 demerits for the anti-semitism]
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January 18, 2009 9:37am
philu

this is unmissable news/information..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/flowchart-of-heavy-metal-bandnames/

you know you need to know..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 18, 2009 9:55am
Chuck Bird

For those concerned about freedom in the West there is an excellent post on Muriel’s Forum

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=245

IF YOU READ ONLY 1 EMAIL THIS WEEK, LET IT BE THIS ONE!

Speech by Geert Wilders

‘In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: who lost Europe?’

Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman Party for Freedom, the Netherlands, at the Four Seasons, New York, introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem. The speech was sponsored by the Hudson Institute on September 25, 2008

Dear friends,

Thank you very much for inviting me. Great to be at the Four Seasons. I come from a country that has one season only: a rainy season that starts January 1st and ends December 31st. When we have three sunny days in a row, the government declares a national emergency. So Four Seasons, that’s new to me.

It’s great to be in New York. When I see the skyscrapers and office buildings, I think of what Ayn Rand said: ‘The sky over New York and the will of man made visible.’ Of course. Without the Dutch you would have been nowhere, still figuring out how to buy this island from the
Indians.

But we are glad we did it for you. And, frankly, you did a far better job than we possibly could have done.

I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West.

The danger I see looming is the scenario of America as the last man standing. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe. In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: who lost Europe? Patriots from around Europe risk their lives every day to prevent precisely this scenario from becoming a reality.

My short lecture consists of 4 parts. First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe. Then, I will say a few things about Islam. Thirdly, if you are still here, I will talk a little bit about the movie you just saw. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem.

The Europe you know is changing. You have probably seen the landmarks. The Eiffel Tower and Trafalgar Square and Rome’s ancient buildings and maybe the canals of Amsterdam. They are still there. And they still look very much the same as they did a hundred years ago. But in all
of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world, a world very few visitors see – and one that does not appear in your tourist guidebook. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighbourhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It’s the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents,
with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners.

The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These
are Muslim neighbourhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe. These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe, street by street, neighbourhood by neighbourhood, city bycity.

There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe. With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in
the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighbourhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities. In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims. Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils.

In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear ‘whore, whore’. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in their country of origin. In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin.

The history of the Holocaust can in many cases no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity. In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost
died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan. Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run from the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel.

I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe. San
Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century. Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the
Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France.

One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks.

The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favour of a worldwide caliphate. A Dutch study reported that half of Dutch Muslims admit they ‘understand’ the 9/11 attacks. Muslims demand what they call ‘respect’. And this is how we give them respect. Our elites are willing to give in. To give up. In my own country we have gone from calls by one cabinet member to turn Muslim holidays into official state holidays, to statements by another cabinet member, that Islam is part of Dutch culture, to an affirmation by the Christian-Democratic attorney general that he is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey.

Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. Some prefer to see these as isolated incidents, but I call it a Muslim intifada. I call the perpetrators “settlers’. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies, they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.

Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighbourhoods, their cities, their countries. Politicians shy away from taking a stand against this creeping sharia. They believe in the equality of all cultures. Moreover, on a mundane level, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.

Our many problems with Islam cannot be explained by poverty, repression or the European colonial past, as the Left claims. Nor does it have anything to do with Palestinians or American troops in Iraq. The problem is
Islam itself.

Allow me to give you a brief Islam 101. The first thing you need to know about Islam is the importance of the book of the Quran. The Quran is Allah’s personal word, revealed by an angel to Mohammed, the prophet.

This is where the trouble starts. Every word in the Quran is Allah’s word and therefore not open to discussion or interpretation. It is valid for every Muslim and for all times. Therefore, there is no such a thing as moderate Islam.

Sure, there are a lot of moderate Muslims. But a moderate Islam is non-existent. The Quran calls for hatred, violence, submission, murder, and terrorism. The Quran calls for Muslims to kill non-Muslims, to terrorize non-Muslims and to fulfil their duty to wage war: violent jihad.

Jihad is a duty for every Muslim, Islam is to rule the world – by the sword. The Quran is clearly anti-Semitic, describing Jews as monkeys and pigs.

The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behaviour is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a paedophile, and had several marriages – at the
same time.

Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed . Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. He advised on matters of slavery, but never advised to liberate slaves. Islam has no
other morality than the advancement of Islam. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad. There is no gray area or other side.

Quran as Allah’s own word and Mohammed as the perfect man are the two most important facets of Islam. Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion.

Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means ‘submission’. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.

This is what you need to know about Islam, in order to
understand what is going on in Europe. For millions of Muslims the Quran and the life of Mohammed are not 14 centuries old, but are an everyday reality, an ideal that guides every aspect of their lives.

Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam ‘the most retrograde force in the world’, and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. Which brings me to my movie, Fitna.

I am a lawmaker, and not a movie maker. But I felt I had the moral duty to educate about Islam. The duty to make clear that the Quran stands at the heart of what some people call terrorism but is in reality jihad. I wanted to show that the problems of Islam are at the core of Islam, and
do not belong to its fringes. Now, from the day the plan for my movie was made public, it caused quite a stir, in the Netherlands and throughout Europe.

First, there was a political storm, with government leaders, across the continent in sheer panic. The Netherlands was put under a heightened terror alert, because of possible attacks or a revolt by our Muslim
population. The Dutch branch of the Islamic organization Hizb ut-Tahrir declared that the Netherlands was due for an attack. Internationally, there was a series of incidents. The Taliban threatened to organize additional attacks
against Dutch troops in Afghanistan, and a website linked to Al Qaeda published the message that I ought to be killed, while various muftis in the Middle East stated that I would be responsible for all the bloodshed after the screening of the movie.

In Afghanistan and Pakistan the Dutch flag was burned on several occasions. Dolls representing me were also burned. The Indonesian President announced that I will never be admitted into Indonesia again, while the UN Secretary General and the European Union issued cowardly statements in the same vein as those made by the Dutch Government. I could go on and on. It was an absolute disgrace, a sell-out.

A plethora of legal troubles also followed, and have not ended yet. Currently the state of Jordan is litigating against me. Only last week there were renewed security agency reports about a heightened terror alert for the Netherlands because of Fitna.

Now, I would like to say a few things about Israel. Because, very soon, we will get together in its capital. The best way for a politician in Europe to lose votes is to say something positive about Israel. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I, however, will continue to speak up for Israel. I see defending Israel as a matter of principle. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel. First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.

Samuel Huntington writes it so aptly: ‘Islam has bloody borders’. Israel is located precisely on that border. This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam’s territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon, and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War. The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a waragainst the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel, Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest.

Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lie awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming. Many in Europe argue in favour of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behaviour and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam.

They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for
world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. Therefore, it is not that the West has a stake in Israel. It is Israel.

It is very difficult to be an optimist in the face of the growing Islamization of Europe. All the tides are against us. On all fronts we are losing. Demographically the momentum is with Islam. Muslim immigration is even a source of pride within ruling liberal parties.

Academia, the arts, the media, trade unions, the churches, the business world, the entire political establishment have all converted to the suicidal theory of multiculturalism. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a ‘right-wing extremists’ or ‘racists’. The entire establishment has sided with our enemy.

Leftists, liberals and Christian-Democrats are now all in bed
with Islam. This is the most painful thing to see: the betrayal by ourelites. At this moment in Europe’s history, our elites are supposed to lead us. To stand up for centuries of civilization. To defend our heritage. To honor our eternal
Judeo-Christian values that made Europe what it is today. But there are very few signs of hope to be seen at the governmental level.

Sarkozy, Merkel, Brown, Berlusconi; in private, they probably
know how grave the situation is. But when the little red light goes on, they stare into the camera and tell us that Islam is a religion of peace, and we should all try to get along nicely and sing Kumbaya. They willingly participate in what President Reagan so aptly called: ‘the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom.’

If there is hope in Europe, it comes from the people, not from the elites. Change can only come from a grass-roots level. It has to come from the citizens themselves. Yet these patriots will have to take on the entire political, legal and media establishment. Over the past years there have been some small, but encouraging, signs of a rebirth of the
original European spirit. Maybe the elites turn their backs on freedom, the public does not. In my country, the Netherlands, 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy
mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat to our national identity. I don’t think the public opinion in Holland is very different from other European countries.

Patriotic parties that oppose jihad are growing, against all
odds. My own party debuted two years ago, with five percent of the vote. Now it stands at ten per cent in the polls. The same is true of all similarly-minded parties
in Europe. They are fighting the liberal establishment, and are gaining footholds on the political arena, one voter at the time. Now, for the first time, these patriotic parties will come together and exchange experiences.

It may be the start of something big. Something that might change the map of Europe for decades to come. It might also be Europe’s last chance.
This December a conference will take place in Jerusalem. Thanks to Professor Aryeh El Dad, a member of the Knesset, we will be able to watch Fitna in the Knesset building and discuss the jihad. We are organizing this event in Israel to emphasize the fact that we are all in the same boat together,
and that Israel is part of our common heritage. Those attending will be a select audience. No racist organizations will be allowed. And we will only admit parties that are solidly democratic.

This conference will be the start of an Alliance of European patriots. This Alliance will serve as the backbone for all organizations and political parties that oppose jihad and Islamization. For this Alliance I seek your support. This endeavor may be crucial to America and to the West. America may hold fast to the dream that, thanks to its location, it is safe from jihad and shaira. But seven years ago to the day, there was still smoke rising from ground zero, following the attacks that forever shattered that dream. Yet there is a danger, an even greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing.

The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America – as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs.
With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to
preserve the heritage of Rome, Athens and Jerusalem.

Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My
generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home,
and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe’s children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.

This is not the first time our civilization is under threat. We have seen dangers before. We have been betrayed by our elites before. They have sided with our enemies before. And yet, then, freedom prevailed. These are not times in which to take lessons from appeasement, capitulation, giving away, giving up or giving in.

These are not times in which to draw lessons from Mr. Chamberlain. These are times calling us to draw lessons from Mr. Churchill and the words he spoke in 1942: ‘Never give in, never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming
might of the enemy’.

(Ends).

Interested people ought to procure and read the small book titled “The Rage and The Pride” by Oriana Fallaci. See my review:

Review of The Rage and the Priude by Oriana Fallaci.

I have just read a great little new book Titled “The Rage And The Pride” by Oriana Fallaci. She is a lifetime opponent of Fascism, communism, collectivism, dictatorships of all kinds and since she served as a young girl in the Free Italian army, (WW2), has been a reporter in every sphere of conflict on the planet. She was once so badly wounded in Mexico she woke up in a morgue with all of the other dead.

Her booklet is the hardest hitting book against the rise of militant Islam that could be imagined. Every English speaking patriot should read this book. Every European should read this book.

I have never read such a book. She does not mince words regarding the atrocities against their own women, against their own children, against foes, against civilisation and against humanity in general. In other words they are barbarians of the worst kind. Our modern civilisation is in grave danger from their incursions into our relatively free societies. She says things that NOBODY DARES SAY FOR FEAR OF BEING ACCUSED AS RACISTS AND BIGOTS. As we in general live on a different wave length to the Mullas, we cannot win. Neglect to read this book at your own peril.

It is my political book of the year. She denounces the uncomfortable truths of the incompatibility between Islam and Christianity. She points out that NOWHERE do Muslims live in anything like a liberal democracy as we do, in the West. She uncompromisingly defends our culture and blames what she calls our blindness, our deafness, our masochism, the conformism and the arrogance of the politically correct.

But what astonished me was how she exposed radical Islam for what it is. Facts that our papers never print, for fear of being accused of racist. She even takes the Pope and other Luminaries to task for the way they kow-tow to leading Muslim “clerics”.

Fallaci describes the utter contempt Islam have for all of the west etc etc. The way they degrade our societies which they enter uninvited, and with impunity, with precisely the intention to so degrade our cities and social fabric. And worse, using our common decency and compassion as a weapon against us.

It is like getting a letter from your aunt telling you a few home truths in order to pull you together. Incidentally, Islam has threatened her with extermination for her efforts. I hope you read this booklet and recommend it to ALL of your friends. It is a powerful statement from a real woman of the world.

Available from . Read some of the excerpts at the web site.

Already a million copies sold in Italy, and still a best seller now in 21 languages in 30 countries.
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January 18, 2009 10:04am
Frank

Where is the $8.5 trillion bailout money really going.? Are the Insurance Companies going to get a special bail out? Markets are shocking with the New York Banks leading the charge. The new administration is declaring war on Wall St on 20th January. It is all a recipe for disaster.
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January 18, 2009 10:09am
Glutaemus Maximus

What America needs now is a good old fashioned war.

Not a police action.

A proper ruck with the Islamists!
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January 18, 2009 10:13am
billyborker

Frank, Wall St declared war on the US and world economies with its Ponzi schemes of CDOs and derivatives, and bonuses (really just theft of shareholder’s funds). Fuck Wall St and all who work in her. Let the pricks who caused the suffering feel some pain.
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January 18, 2009 10:14am
Frank

Billyborker: Unfortuntely Justice is rarely seen to beserved. The bonuses, indiscretions etc, are costing each American family $40,000.
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January 18, 2009 10:35am
goodgod

Why are those from the left hellbent on dividing NZ? 😉
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January 18, 2009 10:38am
Lance

billy… wrote

“Too right, much more important that a couple of Christ Killers get a latte than someone takes a stand against the murder of children.”

Wow your true colours are showing through… racist pig. Shit only the most extreme facists or worst biggoted scum muster such words.
You have failed as a human being.
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January 18, 2009 10:39am
Inventory2

Another outstanding column from Michael Laws this morning – that’s two weeks in succession when I have agreed with pretty much every word he writes!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/01/now-im-really-worried.html
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January 18, 2009 10:52am
Glutaemus Maximus

Borker.

You are a total scumbag!
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January 18, 2009 11:02am
kiki

Chuck Bird

I have seen the problem. I get the feeling this is what is was like as the Pagans were taken over by the christens in Rome with 1500 years of slavery that followed or is it more like the settlement of NZ by the British?. We follow a western idea that everybody is equal and able to act as they wish except where it removes others rights.

This fails were a culture, religion or political ideology does not respect this and doesn’t follow this so we argue that they still have their right to act as they do even if the rights of the individuals within that culture are denied.

When these cultures start to influence ourselves we revert to tolerance, that we must tolerate other cultures. I hate this word as I can tolerate a toothache but that doesn’t make the rotten tooth better. Understanding is better and once a different culture is understood then decisions can be made.

I wonder if this is just a natural consequence of wealth with the élan of the people draining away as they no longer have to work to live?

also I wonder if islams greatest power is it’s denial of womans rights, this allows huge population growth as the woman have no control. So the West’s greatest chance lies in defending the individuals right especially womans and not accepting that any religion or culture has the right to dictate to an individual. If this means using force to allow a woman to chose not to follow the orders of her family or religion then that is what should be done but we don’t, we just accept individual rights are removable. Even here in NZ with the female prison warder fired because she wouldn’t sit behind men and the wives and daughters of the exclusive brethren who are not allowed education we have set our downfall.
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January 18, 2009 11:27am
kiki

Billy

Your great leader Helen submitted when she wore a headscarf when she begged to the Moslems. She sold out all her beliefs of equality with that act because she showed that they were right that woman are just bits of meat that tempt men and so should be covered.
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January 18, 2009 11:37am
side show bob

Chuck Bird, terror merchants and control freaks hide behind Islam, that is they use Islam and it’s Quran to subjugate those who fail to bend to their will. But like any system that seeks to totally control the lives of those trapped within it it will eventually fail. Humans strive for freedom, the Islamic arseholes may be enjoying a resurgence in power but they are their own worst enemies. Can you see any of these fools agreeing on one leader?. They are gangsters and thugs and as such they would cut each others throats in a heartbeat. Yes it is a war but it is a war of good verses evil as Islam has nothing good to offer anyone.
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January 18, 2009 11:46am
TimG_Oz

Can someone please explain this group of John Minto’s “Global Peace and JUSTICE”?? I mean there isn’t a group called GreenpeaceandJustice?

It sounds like they decided they couldn’t be for peace because they needed to support some violent militant causes in a violent militant manner. Therefore they tacked on the word “Justice” and they can therefore reason that any violent action or cause is OK as it part of Justice, Retribution or whatever….

If they were a peace group, then they’d be more about dialog, understanding, finding common ground and diplomacy between parties – not just supporting a violent crowd like say HAMAS into having the freedom to kill whoever they want until the other side is destroyed.
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January 18, 2009 12:02pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Kiki and SSB, on the money there.

These crazies will self destruct.

Nasty bastards. And the apologists that support them need a real wake up call!!
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January 18, 2009 12:02pm
Southern Raider

Ceasfire begins in under an hour. Hamas have already said they will continue fighting.

Any bets for how long it takes after 2am Israeli time for Hamas to push the go button?
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January 18, 2009 12:17pm
Southern Raider

Also anyone read the letter to the editor in todays SST by some Luc Hansen?

Starts of talking about people falling for Israeli propaganda and then spews out all this bulshit like
– Palestinians have lived in the area for thousands of years (I thought the Crusades finished about 800 years ago not 3,000)
– there was peace under the Ottomans for 500 years (I don’t recall the Ottoman empire lasting anywhere near that)
– peace ended when the Jews started moving in
– Israel started ethnic cleansing in 47
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January 18, 2009 12:20pm
Thrash Cardiom

The Ottoman Empire started its rise in the 14th century which gives it more than 500 years.
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January 18, 2009 12:23pm
Thrash Cardiom

Ceasfire begins in under an hour. Hamas have already said they will continue fighting.

Well, it’s not so much a ceasefire as a unilateral ceasefire. That is one side had declared a ceasefire. The other side has not agreed to it. I think the Israelis have called it so they can look good when Hamas continue fighting and they are forced to defend themselves.
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January 18, 2009 12:31pm
Glutaemus Maximus

TC, you are another misguided fool.

Hamas started the war by their continual baiting.

They are pure evil.

Just hope that family or friends of yours get blown to fuck by the fanatics, when they next strike
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January 18, 2009 12:38pm
Southern Raider

I see a Kaikoura cafe owned by a kiwi has a sign up saying Israelis not welcome.

Would he also ban Zimbabwians, Chinese and Fijians
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January 18, 2009 12:39pm
Thrash Cardiom

Glutaemus Maximus: I am amazed at your ability to read things that haven’t been written. Perhaps you could point out to me where I said anything about supporting Hamas or their war? I have read and re-read my words and can’t find anything in them to indicate where I stand on this issue.

Methinks you are too quick to leap to conclusions.
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January 18, 2009 12:40pm
Southern Raider

So TC this letter writing makes it sound so rosey living as part of the Ottoman Empire.

Do you think that if the Ottoman Empire still existed there wouldn’t be the same issues?
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January 18, 2009 12:40pm
Thrash Cardiom

So TC this letter writing makes it sound so rosey living as part of the Ottoman Empire.

Do you think that if the Ottoman Empire still existed there wouldn’t be the same issues?

Merely pointing out that the empire was around for quite a bit longer than you recollect. I didn’t make any statement other than that.
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January 18, 2009 12:42pm
Southern Raider

Also the SST is so lasy it used a protest rally organiser from Minto crowd to report on the rally in ChCh and then they published this as fact with no neutral observer
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January 18, 2009 12:47pm
Thrash Cardiom

It’s interesting being on this blog. I used to read it frequently a couple of years ago but dropped it from my list due to the constant stream of abuse that infested the commentary. It just wasn’t worth reading. Today I have posted 4 comments and have received a small bit of abuse back. Apparently I am a “misguided fool” and the poster of that hopes that my family or friends get “blown to fuck by the fanatics, when they next strike”.

What lovely, well reasoned debate.
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January 18, 2009 12:48pm
Glutaemus Maximus

If the kitchen is too hot!

Having had mates maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Please don’t preach pro Hamas leanings to me!
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January 18, 2009 12:52pm
Thrash Cardiom

GM: Could you please point out where I have preached (or even said) anything pro-Hamas.
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January 18, 2009 12:54pm
TimG_Oz

SR – regarding the reporting from Chch – this was exactly my point in my comment in yesterdays daily post.

They made it sound like the Jewish community were out in force with the protesters!
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January 18, 2009 12:54pm
Southern Raider

Agree TimG they dismissed a “single misguided” Israel supporter and cited members of the Jewish community in the protest.

Thats just bullshit. The only “Jews” I know that would support Minto and his like are people like Asher the Anarchist in Wellington who claims to be Jewish by ethnicity, but an atheist.

I’m not saying that all Jews blindly support the state of Israel and all decry the killing of any civilians, but I would struggle to find any that would admit to being aligned with Minto’s Hamas cheerleaders.
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January 18, 2009 1:01pm
Southern Raider

FYI there was a rally organised for downtown Auckland at 12 noon today to show solidarity with Israel. Will be interested to see if this is even reported.

Any suggestions for where Minto will protest this week? Surely the A1 GP cars in Taupo having some component made/developed/created in Israel.
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January 18, 2009 1:03pm
TimG_Oz

Thanks SR – I actually know Asher personally – I was his leader at a left wing Jewish youth group.

The kid’s a good guy, but his logic is a bit funny. On the whole the NZ Jewish Community wants peace, which Hamas is ensuring is impossible.
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January 18, 2009 1:17pm
big bruv

I see that TV3 has sent John Campbell to Washington to cover the inauguration of Hussein Obama, no doubt this is just the start of the breathless reporting and pathetic journalism we are going to see from our left wing press.

Given that TV3 is a private company I have no problem with them sending Campbell, I just hope that TV1 does not waste any of my tax dollars sending any of their overpaid auto cue readers to cover this when they can take perfectly good feeds directly from the American networks.

If Neville Key is serious about cutting public spending then he can start with things like the extravagance and waste inside TVNZ, or he could do the really smart thing and sell all of the government owned TV stations and radio network (preferably to somebody who would give us balance)
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January 18, 2009 1:41pm
grumpyoldhori

big bruv, I understand Obama only wants white, Christian, hard working servants in the soon to be painted Brown House.
He just loves the sound of some hard working white calling him massa.
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January 18, 2009 2:07pm
Chuck Bird

This article is largely about domestic violence and how the last government in a series of taxpayer funded TV ads put nearly all the blame on men.

I wonder if Mr Key will end this taxpayer funded anti male campaign?

Bill Ralston: Try a new pill for old ills
4:00AM Sunday Jan 18, 2009
By Bill Ralston

The Government’s willingness to give some of the country’s top businessmen a big hug and bring them in on finding solutions to the recession is a refreshing change of mindset from that of the last government.

Labour always distrusted big business and, rejecting most of the private sector as too right-wing, it carefully selected its own small elite of moneymen to do its bidding, so long as they never challenged the Government’s ideological position.

Remember the Knowledge Wave? It turned out to be barely a ripple. Labour largely ignored the outcomes from that talkfest because some of the suggestions were impure in terms of its ideological outlook.

For the past few months National has largely followed a Labour-like “me too” approach to government. At last it is beginning to look as if it’s developing its own ideas, style and an independent approach.

After a near decade of Labour rule, a fresh way of doing things is long overdue and may help the Cabinet save money.

If National is willing to change the mindset Labour adopted when dealing with business and the economy it might also want to look at changing how the last government approached social policy.

The thick streak of political correctness that underlay Labour’s approach to social issues is worth reappraising. It often produced illogical, inefficient, wasteful and downright silly outcomes.

For example, take one of my pet hates, the “It’s Not OK” campaign against domestic violence in which a collection of earnest men smugly entreat other men to not give their partners and kids the bash.

This campaign followed an earlier series of commercials depicting thuggish blokes battering their way through the household.

The last government’s strategy was to place the burden of responsibility for domestic violence always on men. To suggest otherwise was heresy, so the bureaucrats produced advertising campaigns solely targeted at stopping men being violent towards women.

Sadly, domestic violence continues unabated. This may well be because the government doctrine of “Blame the Bloke” ignores some very real scientific research that questions the conventional thinking on the issue.

For years, Professor David Fergusson from the University of Otago, Christchurch, has been responsible for a longitudinal study of 1265 children born in Canterbury in mid-1977. As part of that research, he studied the issue of violence, ranging from psychological abuse to serious physical attack between partners.

Professor Fergusson found that, among young adults, men and women are equally violent towards each other.

The research also showed the range of violence committed by men and women is similar and the consequences, in injury and psychological effects, are also much the same for both sexes. This is no oddball piece of academic research. It is backed by the findings of similar international studies.

Fergusson concludes the root cause of domestic violence is not solely bullying men.

He reckons violent partnerships are more likely to be associated with childhood adversity, mental health disorders and other life traumas.

In other words, violent partnerships are more likely to spring up where people have experienced serious difficulties and disadvantages in life.

In 2006 he advised government agencies that his study “suggests the need for a broadening of analysis of domestic violence away from focusing on male perpetrators and female victims to examining violent couples who use aggression in their relationship”. Fergusson was ignored.

Multi-million-dollar advertising campaigns stressing male aggressors and female victims continued and intensified even though the Fergusson study would suggest this approach was ineffective and a waste of money.

The only rational explanation is that Fergusson’s advice was politically unacceptable to Labour. They were cemented into a blindly feminist position of “women good, men bad”.

The truth is, both sexes can be bad and trying to attribute blame to just one sex is senseless and futile.

If the huge budget currently being spent on targeting violent males and trying to convince them to change their nasty ways was, instead, used to treat the real cause – social disadvantage, deprivation and mental illness – we might start seeing some results. The cost to taxpayers from domestic violence might reduce.

A change of government is a chance to reappraise not just the approach to combating domestic violence but an opportunity to challenge the accepted methods of doing things all across the board in social policy.

Ministers should learn to question every long-accepted philosophical approach in their departments.

Not only might it reduce costs, it could mean that the taxpayer starts seeing some real value for money for a pleasant change.
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January 18, 2009 2:09pm
Banana Llama

He is half white anyway so who really cares if a halfcast became president, welcome to the 21st century America.
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January 18, 2009 2:11pm
s.russell

Thrash Cardiom,

Please ignore the personal abuse. Many of us do prefer reasoned debate, and we welcome the participation of those with views different to our own. Kiwiblog would get rather boring without such views….

Think of the abuse as a debate tax: for every four posts of reasoned argument, you get one of vitriol. Or like advertising on TV. For every four minutes of entertainment you get one of annoying toothpaste adverts.
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January 18, 2009 2:23pm
Thrash Cardiom

Oh, I can ignore the personal abuse. However too much of it makes blog commentary not worth the bother of sifting through it to find the bits worth reading. It’s a matter of weighing up what your time is worth to you compared to the value of what you get out of the blog.

It’s a pity as I like what David posts for the most part.
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January 18, 2009 2:45pm
Southern Raider

TimG so you’re to blame then 🙂
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January 18, 2009 3:31pm
TimG_Oz

I could hardly claim to being such a good lefty 😉
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January 18, 2009 3:48pm
AG

s.russell

“Think of the abuse as a debate tax: for every four posts of reasoned argument, you get one of vitriol. Or like advertising on TV. For every four minutes of entertainment you get one of annoying toothpaste adverts.”

I like this analogy, as it makes Gluteus Minimal and Redbeater a form of revenue. This should then cause them such a degree of cognitive dissonance that their heads explode.
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January 18, 2009 4:07pm
dad4justice

Oh grow up AG and get some balls, where else can some cowardly keyboard creep like billy borker ( fugley) call a man a murderer and paedophile. Poor billy fugly got a weeks holiday , haha it was worth the 30 demerits the weirdo cost me.
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January 18, 2009 4:15pm
Patrick Starr

C’mon guys- get voting. FFS Clark is now in front!!!!!!!!

Who is the greatest living New Zealander?

Willie Apiata: 952 (18%)
Helen Clark: 984 (19%)
Sir Murray Halberg: 680 (13%)
Peter Jackson: 630 (12%)
http://dynamic.nzherald.co.nz/poll/pub/polls/index.cfm?action=list
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January 18, 2009 4:18pm
Banana Llama

C’mon guys- get voting. FFS Clark is now in front!!!!!!!!

Who gives a shit what a bot net thinks?
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January 18, 2009 4:22pm
dad4justice

I voted for the brave lady Nancy Wake who is a real woman, not like the two faced deceptive Miss Klark? How did Sandra M get her job ? Just a silly little warning Miss Klark. The lid is coming off the big can of worms.Peter.
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January 18, 2009 4:25pm
Patrick Starr

H.A.M.A.S = Hides Amongst Mosques And Schools
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January 18, 2009 4:32pm
TimG_Oz

Hmmm Internet Polls. Scientific exactments of public opinion they are NOT!

I voted for Willie Apiata. Then tried to vote again – it noticed.

Delete cookies from browser, then voted again … no problem! Had to log back into Kiwiblog though 🙁
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January 18, 2009 4:46pm
Banana Llama

Delete cookies from browser, then voted again … no problem! Had to log back into Kiwiblog though 🙁

You can just install Tor and Privoxy, then download free macro software that will spam votes over and over again till you turn off the computer, takes 20 minutes to set up … not that i would ever encourage doing such a thing *cough* *cough*
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January 18, 2009 4:52pm
TimG_Oz

Yeah I always wondered how they got those CNN Polls 1,086,756,996,654,009 votes to 6,886,332,868,647,999,233
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January 18, 2009 5:01pm
baxter

CHUCK………….Ralston’s article is fair comment. He omits to mention the difficulty the new Government finds itself in with all the C.E.O.s of Departments, and created ‘Commissioners” in charges of various unnecessary socialist special interest sectors, being the favourites of the last government and sharing the same goals and ideology. Most will be on contracts with years to run, and it will take considerable resolve to ignore their proposals.National has to neutralise or get rid of them before they can start the recovery. I think I read CLARK made over 200 appointments in her last desperate days in office.
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January 18, 2009 5:01pm
Rex Widerstrom

Take a deep breath, Redbaiter et al. NineMSN are running an (admittedly unscientific) poll on “Will Obama’s inauguration be a turning point for the world”?

When last I checked, 3935 were saying “yes” as opposed to 2215 saying “no”. Till I saw those numbers I thought all these references to “the coming of Obama the Messiah” were simply exaggerating the way some people saw him… but clearly the inauguration will indeed, for some at least, herald just such an event.

And remember, the respondents are mostly Australian… with little incentive to cheat the results through multiple voting one way or the other. Talk about overheated expectations.

A turning point for the world?! Where’s Monty Python when you need him? “He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a Senator from Illinois”.
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January 18, 2009 5:35pm
Thrash Cardiom

Till I saw those numbers I thought all these references to “the coming of Obama the Messiah” were simply exaggerating the way some people saw him… but clearly the inauguration will indeed, for some at least, herald just such an event.

Weird, isn’t it. I know people infected with this virus. They don’t seem to understand that he’s just a man. Another man, and like so many men I’ve met before, he’s just one more.

Whoops… Sorry about the JCSS lapse.
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January 18, 2009 6:00pm
wikiriwhis business

““He’s not the Messiah, he’s just a Senator from Illinois”.”

Uh oh,,

You just made me realise something.

The Bible talks about the lil horn.

Now you really got me thinking.
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January 18, 2009 6:55pm
jcuknz

One of the things that I have learnt from reading about America and its crisis is that it is pretty pointless giving money to their banks as a way of getting the country going again.

It seems to me that Government should use “free enterprise” in the form of the banks which through their sensible lending policies know how to safely lend money and provide them with the funds to lend to useful small industries to do the little jobs that keep the country going. The banks being the conduit by which the money is provided to those who need it rather than being grabbed by the banks for their own benefit.

Large projects take time but little ones can be started quickly and that is what the countr needs to save employment, and save the Government ‘dole’ expenditure.
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January 19, 2009 9:53am
getstaffed

TelstraClear is having MAJOR problems this morning

I can’t access trademe, stuff and a bunch of sites.

Something to do with their DNS by the looks.

Of course their “Service Status” page is showing a full-house of happy green lights, ie everythings fine. Chumps!
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January 19, 2009 10:11am
AG

jcuknz

“It seems to me that Government should use “free enterprise” in the form of the banks which through their sensible lending policies know how to safely lend money and provide them with the funds to lend to useful small industries to do the little jobs that keep the country going.”

I can’t tell if this is satire or not. The banks’ “sensible lending policies” mean they “know how to safely lend money”? Exactly what do you think caused the current financial crisis?

And before anyone claims that the government is somehow responsible:

“Federal Reserve Board data show that:
More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.
Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.
Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that’s being lambasted by conservative critics.
The “turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007,” the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets reported Friday.”

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html
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January 19, 2009 10:30am
getstaffed

Exactly what do you think caused the current financial crisis?

At its most basic level… greed caused this crisis.

Greed is not limited by political persuasion. It thrives within power-hungry political elite just as well as it does within wealth-hungry ‘captains’ of industry.
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January 19, 2009 10:41am
AG

“At its most basic level… greed caused this crisis.”

That may be true at the most general level (although I’d add “fear” to the mix as well). But it doesn’t really help in deciding what to do about the current problem … one may as well say “only love can fix things”.

The real question is, what degree and form of collective regulation can limit the potentially harmful effects of unchecked greed (and subsequent fear as the markets collapse), without overly constraining the ability of markets to innovate and create wealth. Figure that out and there is a Nobel medal waiting for you …
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January 19, 2009 10:47am
Owen McShane

You mean all the greedy people who bought their homes at inflated prices and enjoyed watching their homes increase in value from 1995 on without having to do anything to make it open other than keep occupying or buying and selling in the same market?

Greed is what other people do. Sound investment in what I do.
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January 19, 2009 10:58am

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