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January 17, 2009 2:35pm by David Farrar

General Debate 17 January 2009

Well a late start to today!

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General Debate

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Owen McShane

Now that the EU is going to reintroduce extensive subsidies for EU farmers how can we even be considering taxing and otherwise penalising our own unsubsidised farmers through an ETS scheme?/

The EU subsidies will impact on world markets because not only will overseas countries find it difficult to import into the EU but of course EU farmers will be able to sell their subsidised produce into overseas markets.
So how could any NZ government consider taxing our own unsubsidised farmers while the EU is subsidising its own farmers.

This is a great opportunity for Sir Roger Douglas to speak out.

An ETS would be economic suicide.
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January 17, 2009 3:01pm
grumpyoldhori

Should we give NZ farmers corporate welfare in the form of Taxpayer paid irrigation dams/lakes etc ?
I notice that a farming lobby group is pushing for that.
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January 17, 2009 3:10pm
Banana Llama

Should we give NZ farmers corporate welfare in the form of Taxpayer paid irrigation dams/lakes etc ?
I notice that a farming lobby group is pushing for that.

Sure, if we get cheaper food from our investment to consume, doubt that would happen though as it would all go offshore.
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January 17, 2009 3:14pm
Sonny Blount

The ridiculous thing about agriculure in the ETS is that a cow is just a short-term carbon sink. It may turn some of the co2 it consumes into methane but that is converted to co2 within 7 years in the atmosphere, but overall more biomass=less carbon in the atmosphere.

I would have thought that farmers have paid a fair proportion of the taxes over the last 100 years that have built the countries infrastructure.
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January 17, 2009 3:32pm
s.russell

The Southland Times has an interesting take on the Martian methane. Their editorial suggests:

At the risk of losing sight of the big picture cosmic issues regarding life, the universe and everything let’s not forget two things about ourselves.

The first is that back in 2003 nothing was agitating New Zealand farmers quite as much as the prospect of the dreaded fart tax.

The second is that we are a nation of intrepid problem-solvers.

Would it, therefore, be too, too egocentric to raise the faint possibility that further scientific endeavour might reveal that the source of all this Martian gas was a far-flung tax haven for New Zealand cows?

After all, we haven’t had any direct denials from Fonterra.
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January 17, 2009 3:34pm
Chuck Bird

This story is not unique. Below is a link to another one. Some people might joke that this is every young boy’s fantasy come true. Pregnancy is one reason why this is not the case and why this should be treated as seriously as if a man were 33 and a girl was aged 15.

Will this boy be obliged to pay child support? I would hope not. The State to some degree is responsible in that it does not treat these cases anywhere near as seriously as the other way around. Would a man be granted name suppression because his children might be embarrassed or teased – not likely?

Mr Key re-established the Ministry of Woman’s Affairs but fails to address issues relating to men, fathers or even adolescent boys.

Mother who had sex with boy fights for name suppression

http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlboroughexpress/4820757a6422.html

Court told of mother’s pregnancy to 15-year-old

The Timaru Herald | Thursday, 18 December 2008

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4796357a12855.html

A 33-year-old mother was charged with having sex with a minor three weeks after she found out she was pregnant to the boy, a court was told.

The woman was remanded on bail till February 13 for trial in the Timaru District Court after depositions before justices of the peace yesterday.

The woman uttered one word yesterday “No” when asked whether she wished to plead guilty to a charge of sexual connection with the boy, then aged 15, between July and September this year.

The woman and her former husband had known the boy and his family. The boy had often visited the couple’s home.
The boy’s mother told the court that she became suspicious of the pair’s relationship because of the way they acted toward each other.

Her son moved into the woman’s house in August, days after the woman’s husband left the family home. The boy returned home briefly, but was back living at the woman’s house in late August.
When the boy’s mother found out the woman was pregnant, she told the defendant that she was sick, should think of her children and have an abortion.

The defendant’s husband told the court he had tried to be a positive influence in the boy’s life. He had confronted him about being in love with his wife and told him to back off. His wife had said she viewed the boy as a friend.

In mid-July she told her husband she was unhappy with their marriage and he left the family home. Days later, she told him their marriage was over. Soon after the husband left he became aware the boy had moved in.

Within a month he received a phone call from his wife. She was distressed and told him she was pregnant with the boy’s child.

She told her husband she planned to have an abortion and he agreed to drive her to Christchurch for the procedure. She did not keep the appointment and the man laid a complaint with police.

Detective Kevin Byrnes told the court of going to the woman’s house on September 8.
He told the boy he had to leave and was with him as he removed clothes from the main bedroom.
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January 17, 2009 3:39pm
Owen McShane

Grumps.
No. water rights should be tradeable like the fishing quota so that they end going to the best use after setting an environmental minimum water flow for rivers etc.
Free resources are wasted resources.
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January 17, 2009 3:48pm
artemisia

Strange news from another planet in today’s Herald, aka Dr Huhana Smith waxing lyrical on the Maori flags, in particular the Tino Rangatiratanga flag, which she says is “is simply the latest flag in a long line of resistance flags”:

“I mean, tino rangatiratanga can be defined as a Maori family determining that the unhealthy lifestyles end with this generation and we’re going to be moving into healthy lifestyles. That’s also a form of tino rangatiratanga.”

I guess there would be considerable resistance to this in some families.
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January 17, 2009 3:48pm
dad4justice

“Mr Key re-established the Ministry of Woman’s Affairs but fails to address issues relating to men, fathers or even adolescent boys.”

Just the same old crap Chuck, it doesn’t matter whether it’s Labourlite or Nationalite. Would a REAL MAN please stand up.
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January 17, 2009 3:52pm
Ross Miller

Chuck Bird said … Mr Key re-established the Ministry of Woman’s Affairs. Dear old d4J ‘bit’ immediately.

Chuck, sorry to spoil a good story but you’re talking crap. The Ministry of Women’s Affairs was established in the mid 1980s and has operated continuously ever since so just how John Key ‘re-established’ it beats me.

But if your argument is that there is a case for the Government to look seriously at dis-establishing it then I’m happy to associate myself with that call. At last count it had a staff of 38 all ‘busy’ producing reports which make terrific door stops. The reality is the 99.9999999% of women manage to live their lives perfectly well without this manifestation of Nanny Statism …. the other 38 will all get new jobs if they are any good.
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January 17, 2009 4:44pm
Patrick Starr

Whats the message for tourists about the NZ Criminal Justice System, – must be 100% Pure soft touch?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552314
“Tourist writes letter instead of appearing in court 1:00PM Saturday Jan 17, 2009
A Malaysian tourist failed to turn up in Napier District Court this week because he was having a “lovely time” seeing the country.
Instead he wrote the judge a letter asking to be pardoned and promising not to do it again”
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January 17, 2009 4:49pm
Chuck Bird

Sorry Ross, I should have clarified myself. National under Don Brash stopped having a National spokesperson for Woman’s Affair and indicated that National would quite rigntly not have a Ministry of Woman’s Affairs.
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January 17, 2009 5:06pm
Inventory2

Patrick – I blogged on that earlier today – I suggest he might be in for a surprise when he tries to leave NZ at the end of his holiday…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/01/end-of-era.html
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January 17, 2009 5:12pm
Patrick Starr

IV2 –

LMFAO – it’s just incredible isn’t it. Imagine doing that in Malaysia, 100 strokes of the rattan ?
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January 17, 2009 5:23pm
WebWrat

Who knows how to save a youtube file off the web?
Thanks.
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January 17, 2009 5:31pm
wikiriwhis business

Chuck,,

I disagree with the judge concerning the name suppression. The boy suffered no trauma. The womens daughters should’ve been protected. This judgement proves judges don’t move with wisdom but treating every under age sex case uniformly. That’s very immoral in itself and shows there is a definite narrow agenda in moving against offenders to the detriment and reputations of innocents involved.

That needs addressing.
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January 17, 2009 5:32pm
wikiriwhis business

“Tourist writes letter instead of appearing in court”

Can still remember the wealthy American who was told by a judge to enjoy his stay after being caught with Marijuana and discharged.

And he was guilty as sin.
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January 17, 2009 5:38pm
Inventory2

Indeed Patrick – some misguided soul must have told him that it was fine to have a skin-full then drive in Godzone
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January 17, 2009 5:45pm
Lance

Ijust had the misfortune to see a bunch of fuckwitted luddites throw paint at Rakon industries and watch the Police standby and do bugger all.

Totally technically challenged retards. Oscillators are in just about anything electronic and the high precision types can be use in GPS among other things.
Well bugger me… GPS is used my the military… and the police.. and aircraft and search and rescue and boaties and trampers and orienteer’s and sailing boats ……………… etc etc etc

Wankers
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January 17, 2009 6:00pm
Patrick Starr

I saw them in Mt Wellington. Cops were there, maybe you cant get arrested for vandalism if you hate jews?

fuck, no wonder the maylasian tourist thought turning up in court was optional
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January 17, 2009 6:19pm
Lance

What’s more the Gaza strip is so bloody small most of the damage is done with shells aimed optically. Why use expensive guided systems?

The sheer fucking stupidity of protesting against Rakon is mind boggling. They don’t understand the first bloody thing about electronic systems but away they go anyway.

Maybe they will be cursed if they don’t cast off and burn their own GPS’s and cellphones and tv’s and modern cars. These use oscillators as well and are evil. To own one is to be in bed with the Zionist devils………..

Rockapes
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January 17, 2009 6:27pm
Banana Llama

Don’t expect much from the police, they have been subjected to constant indoctrination for the last nine years.

“Maybe they will be cursed if they don’t cast off and burn their own GPS’s and cellphones and tv’s and modern cars. These use oscillators as well and are evil. To own one is to be in bed with the Zionist devils.

Rockapes”

And this is why we have little to fear from these idiots, they are like a dog chasing a car.
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January 17, 2009 6:28pm
Patrick Starr

I saw something on the Aljazeera about a worldwide ban on Motorola, because they make some electronic switch used by the US & Israel.

Personaly I hope they ban everthing made by, or supplied to the US and Israel. Then they can go back and live in their fucken sand caves, which will match their stone aged culture.
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January 17, 2009 6:31pm
THNRGB

Dudes! I must say, New Zealand pretty much rules. All these interesting issues being discussed are furthermore relevant and interesting to me. My New Zealand lifestyle also totally rules and furthermore is awesome. In my flat I wear a red velvet bathrobe and enjoy drinking Tooheys Extra Dry Platinum in the evening and Bell brand tea in the morn. Furthermore, Australia is totally weak. I hope all we New Zealanders have a productive 2009!!
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January 17, 2009 6:35pm
Patrick Starr

“Don’t expect much from the police, they have been subjected to constant indoctrination for the last nine years”

well I trust Judith Collins will be asking how many were arrested for vandalism, and if not why not?
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January 17, 2009 6:40pm
dad4justice

When are the keystone cops going to grow some brain cells?
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January 17, 2009 6:46pm
Inventory2

Lance said “Ijust had the misfortune to see a bunch of fuckwitted luddites throw paint at Rakon industries and watch the Police standby and do bugger all.”

Yep, saw that on the news, and have just blogged about it. I won’t link-whore again, but it’s a cop-out by the Police. It’s “Megaphone Len” all over again!
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January 17, 2009 6:49pm
Banana Llama

Megaphone Len for those that don’t know, i honestly wish he had done this to me as he would not be walking away scott free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpK3IQECLFo
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January 17, 2009 6:55pm
Inventory2

Here’s a game to play when you watch Megaphone Len – Count the Coppers! After he smacked Mrs Minto with the megaphone, he actually pushed through the Police line to get back to the Labour Party conference hall, and not one copper tried to stop him. When stuff like that, and today’s episode happens, is it any wonder we lose confidence in the police?
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January 17, 2009 6:58pm
Patrick Starr

Well it’s time to see what Judith is made of

I suppose if they arrest them, they may have to also arrest Father Burns?
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January 17, 2009 7:05pm
dad4justice

Patrick, Father Burns has a lefty twitter get out of jail free card. I pulled the go directly too jail card when God was shuffling the deck.Labour Burns, just ask Brendon.
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January 17, 2009 7:22pm
billyborker

Burns is a twitter, just like this other loser dipstick twitter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/7832647.stm

You’re a bus driver Ron; drive the fucking bus.
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January 17, 2009 7:39pm
Chuck Bird

Wikiriwhi Business,

While I agree that there should be no name suppression as there would not be if the accused was a 35 year old male and the alleged victim was 15.

However, I do not know how you can say the boy suffer no trauma. Do you know something about the case the rest of us do not know? While the boy may not have suffered trauma he may be affected by the incident.

The point is that there should be a law against a mature adult having sex with someone under the age of 16. It some cases the effects may not be all that bad however in other the affects can be life long. Pregnancy and HIV are two obvious effects. However aside from those if a underage person is seduced by someone much older the effects can be significant. I would have thought that would have been self evident.
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January 17, 2009 7:44pm
Viking2

I have posted in the past about the need for independent Prosecuting Service. Independent of the police and able to prosecute based upon evidence presented by any person who can supply good evidence of a crime. The should also have the power to ensure that the Police act on their judgment to take a prosecution and cause the person to be prosecuted to be arrested for the offense.
Currently if the police can’t be bothered then no matter what evidence is supplied nothing will get done.
Major crime fighting and deterrent effects from this stance.
I have sent this suggestion to Sensible Sentencing who passed it to Simon Power. Had a 1 minute discussion with him about it. He is interested but wanted to know how to fund it. Got ideas on that which I will send him but if you want to get those dumb shits prosecuted and any others who commit crimes where evidence of their guilt is available them get onto Powers at the Parliament website and urge him to separate the Prosecution service from the Police. Make the police do their jobs properly as well, as there will be much less collusion between the two parties. Prevent the sort of crap that Watson and others have been subject too.
Allows everyone to have a big input into crime fighting and get results. Happens in other countries.
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January 17, 2009 7:47pm
Chuck Bird

I saw this vandalism on TV tonight. I support peaceful protests. This is part of the democratic process. This was not a peaceful protest. It was deliberate vandalism.

Judith Collins is my electorate MP. In my opinion she is a good MP and she is Minister of Police.

I would like to lay a complaint with the police. Would anyone be prepared to go with me? I am not frightened to go on my own but it is far more effective if there is more that one. That way there are witnesses and the police will take the matter far more seriously. I would make it clear if they do not take the matter seriously this will be conveyed to the Minister of Police.
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January 17, 2009 8:02pm
big bruv

The reintroduction of subsidies and protectionism just shows the folly of letting low life politicians seek ways out of the economic crisis.
Ultimately 99% of the bastards are simply looking to get re-elected thus ensuring their own jobs for another three to five years.
When the credit crunch was in its early days we saw grand statements from the pollies that they were not going to do anything that might slow down the recovery and that subsidies and protectionism was something that none of them wanted, it seems that a fall in poll ratings makes these wankers change their mind pretty damn fast.

The ONLY way out of this mess is to let the market run its course and for governments to get out of the bloody way.

In NZ Roger Douglas is the man for the job and the man for these times, it is simply economic treason for Neville Key to ignore the skills and talents of Douglas while we slide deeper and deeper into the shit.
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January 17, 2009 8:07pm
Viking2

Chuck bird.
See my post 2 up.
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January 17, 2009 8:12pm
Chuck Bird

Viking2, I have seen your post. Do you want to go with me. If so, post a hotmail or gmail address and we can touch base.
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January 17, 2009 8:23pm
Banana Llama

LOL! Neville Key.
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January 17, 2009 8:53pm
Patrick Starr

tis quite funny reading the comments on the Rakon Ind protest organisers blog

http://indymedia.org.nz/newswire/display/76718/index.php
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January 17, 2009 9:57pm
thedavincimode

grumpyold [politically inappropriate description deleted] says:

“Should we give NZ farmers corporate welfare in the form of Taxpayer paid irrigation dams/lakes etc ?
I notice that a farming lobby group is pushing for that.”

Au contraire GO[PIDD]. Les fermiers are not suggesting that at all. It does not follow that the suggestion of government funding (meaning “taxpayer funding” as you have noted) means “free” funding. These would be commercial projects and if required funding can’t generate a return that is affordable to the user group then the commercial case for the project fails.
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January 17, 2009 10:09pm
kiki

Big Bruv

It will be interesting times

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/46296,opinion,we-are-all-doomed-possibly-economic-crisis-britain-united-states
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January 17, 2009 10:11pm
Inventory2

Well done again Patrick!!
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January 17, 2009 10:13pm
kiki

And thedavincimode

It will mean free money.

It will mean government force to confiscate private land and tax payer money to fund construction and “free” water to a few privileged.

Privileges for the elite again.
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January 17, 2009 10:19pm
thedavincimode

kiki says:

“It will mean free money.

It will mean government force to confiscate private land and tax payer money to fund construction and “free” water to a few privileged.

Privileges for the elite again.”

1. Wrong.

2. Good to know you were out there protesting against Transpower’s new mega transmission line through the Waikato.

3. Exactly which “elite” are you referring to and what “priveleges” are you suggesting that they enjoy?
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January 17, 2009 10:32pm
kiki

The elite are those that are in a position of power and their privileges are what they gain from that power. This could be teachers using their powerful union to prevent competition within education or manufacture using their connections to prevent imports.

In this case it will be farmers using their influence within national coupled with the crises to grab the water resources and having the tax payer pay.

And yes I oppose the confiscation of land or land use by transpower. If they want to buy or swap land in a free way then I have no problem and as for water an auction system would do nicely.
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January 17, 2009 10:44pm
grumpyoldhori

Owen McShane, oh dear you would have farmers paying for the water collected in taxpayer built dams ?
Now do you not realise they are a very special case, they whine about their rates then whine when the road that they are the only property on is not sealed at other ratepayers/road user expense.

Damn some people would make farmers use NZ labour instead of them being a special case for bringing untrained, uneducated so called dairy workers into NZ.
Maybe it is time we tried a straight market economy, a few would get a bloody shock including some who ask for it.
Example, why should urban people subsidise rural types for their power lines ?
wonder why some say I can be a stirring old bastard 🙂
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January 17, 2009 10:51pm
grumpyoldhori

thedavincimode, would you be suggesting that that taxpayer money given out so that farmers can keep a touch of moisture would be at normal bank rates ?
So government funding is not needed at all, the farmers can put property up as security for dams built on land that they have the freehold on ?
And of course they would need to own the land that the water storage would cover.

Should farmers be on exactly the same terms as other business, or does being born to the land etc mean one is born to the purple in this little land ?
Should other industries get the same aid which is rushed to farming types when they have too much moisture on their land
Farmers want a free market, should we not start that with them in this country ?
If they cannot make enough profit to fund the projects they need, what are they doing in the business ?
Oh, are you against socialism ?
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January 17, 2009 11:10pm
TimG_Oz

From the article:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4821927a11.html

[apparently referring to the protest in Christchurch]

“Two ‘random’ people supporting Israel appeared but were countered by Jewish people supporting the protest.”

Christchurch doesn’t have enough Jewish people to make cricket team, so I’d be very interested to know who the Jewish people in the protest were, and what their “countering” involved…
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January 18, 2009 12:01am
Glutaemus Maximus

For any of the Hamas Huggers that lurk on KB trying to justify the aims, ambitions, and execution of the same are well advised to visit

Whaleoil’s blog.

I was actually shocked by the Hamas dealing to Fatah video!

This is not Pallywood.

Definitely not faked.

And the murderous bastards posted it to the net with a Religious Soundtrack!

Who wouldn’t vote Hamas in Gaza when this is their ‘Rule of Law’
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January 18, 2009 1:46am
thedavincimode

grumpyold [politically inappropriate description deleted]

I’m not suggesting that taxpayer money be ‘given out’ at all.

My understanding is that these water projects are typically to store water for irrigation. I expect that the funding from these projects will come from a number of sources, including farmers who, I understand, already pay significantly more for land that can be irrigated. I don’t see that these projects are any different in principle to other infrastructure assets (eg electricity) meaning that they would potentially represent an attractive pension fund investment. Whether that might be our own state pension fund, or a private local fund, or a foreign private or state-owned fund, remains to be seen.

Irrigation can significantly improve returns from farming. If these dams are incapable of providing a return that, at the margin, is better than a market cost of funds, or in terms of capital cost is out of line with the current cost of buying irrigated land, then they just won’t get built because the farmers themselves won’t be interested.

I presume that the dam entity would own the land. If so, I expect that the famers who own land that is most suitable for water storage would be keener to sell than the orchardists flooded by the Clutha dam given the way things are at the moment. They would no doubt be happier than the farmers of prime land in the Waikato who are having their properties invaded by the Transpower pylon project to provide electricity to Auckland at a cost that is subsidised by loss in value of their land .. but then I guess we shouldn’t care about that since farmers lead a charmed life in the lap of luxury, born to rule and just waiting for someone to give them another farm and without having to do a day’s work …
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January 18, 2009 7:02am
Patrick Starr

Glutaemus Maximus. They could have seen it on KB first?
Im offended you don’t view my links 🙁
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/01/david_irving-2.html#comment-525594
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January 18, 2009 8:27am
Glutaemus Maximus

Sorry Patrick, I must have missed the link.

I am even more determined to rail against the Hamas apologists.

Think the IDF do over-react. Who can possibly blame them?

Who wouldn’t? Kiwi troops certainly gave the Krauts what for at Casino. As did the Aussies and Sihks!
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January 18, 2009 8:59am
Neil

Interesting comments about farmers and their attitudes towards subsidies etc.
I come from four generation farming stock but trained as a teacher not wanting to farm.
I admire my parents and forefathers but there are a few points I would make.
Farmers are in their minds free marketeers, the stalwarts of the National Party.
For some that is true but for the majority they support the free markets in good times but when things turn bad they become rampant socialists. The pocket book is all that counts for many farmers while their attitude towards less fortunate can be appalling. Some people of the land seem to react like the British squires of the 1900’s.
One only has the look at mixed urban and rural district councils in New Zealand, where there are usually quite major clashes between the urban and rural.
Rural ratepayers often see no need to have gardens,libraries,art centres,good urban roads,swimming pools and community development. One rural councillor I served with, once said to the council about a Christmas parade,”It doesn’t bring in any money so why have it” earning her the nickname
‘The Grinch”.
Farmers are individual business people, who tend to get mired in their own problems and hence to think the world is against them and see others as being free loaders.
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January 18, 2009 9:05am
philu

my big day out..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/what-was-goodand-badabout-the-big-day-out/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 18, 2009 9:13am
Patrick Starr

Inventory2

“Whats the message for tourists about the NZ Criminal Justice System, – must be 100% Pure soft touch?”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552343

snap!
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January 18, 2009 9:39am
Patrick Starr

“my big day out..”

I wont click on your link ….. but I kinda suspect it wasn’t a job interview
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January 18, 2009 9:42am
philu

no..just a brilliantly written/composed/funny gig review..(hey..!..maybe that is a ‘job interview’..!..)

(aka..’how i smoked seven joints at the big day out..right under the noses of pot-smoker-hunting police/security ‘goons’..)

..so..best you don’t ‘click the link’..eh..?

..it would do absolutely nothing for a humourless bastard such as yourself..

..who has never written anything even approaching ‘dry’..

..let alone funny/clever..

..patrick non-starr..indeed..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 18, 2009 9:48am
Patrick Starr

7 joints – it takes you 7 joints to get a hit?
so why did you even go out? – how do you really know that you did in your drug induced state?

“..it would do absolutely nothing for a humourless bastard such as yourself..” I dont need 7 joints to get through my day but I do find plenty to laugh about reading your gibberish

BTW who paid for all this?
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January 18, 2009 10:17am
Inventory2

SEVEN joints phil? Sheesh man, you need to find a better dealer – you’re getting ripped off!

And Patrick – you and I paid for it!
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January 18, 2009 11:19am
Owen McShane

Now Scientific American reports that American grass farms are carbon sinks and American grass farmers are selling their carbon credits to emmitters for real dollars.

So the EU farmers are to be subsidised, the AMerican Farmers will be selling carbon credts and yet we will be punishing our Farmers for out emissions. It is already big business.

What the hell is going on – as if we didn’t know!
Read the Scientific American story here.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-cowboys&SID
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January 18, 2009 12:49pm
wikiriwhis business

“However, I do not know how you can say the boy suffer no trauma. Do you know something about the case the rest of us do not know? While the boy may not have suffered trauma he may be affected by the incident.”

15 y o boys walk around with continual hard on’s. If they not eating they thinking bout sex.

you can bet he’s looking for more. One day he’s gonna wake up wishing he was 15 again. If the lil dick was 16 there wouldn’t be a problem.
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January 18, 2009 6:24pm

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