General Debate 21 December 2008

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General Debate

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Madeleine

I have been thinking about bullying lately and in particular the way we expect children to put up with more in their school environments than we ever would take in our places of work.

I wonder why we have this double standard so ingrained in our society?
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December 21, 2008 12:52pm
Viking2

What rubbish, we are not allowing our kids to learn to fend for themselves. Its a tough world out there and the best time to learn to toughen up is when you are a kid. Boys just shouldn’t go running home to mummy (Look at the fine example set by Kate Hawkesbury,ha). But then you would expect her to be presious being a celeb.) You can’t run home to Mummy from work.
I don’t think kids should be endangered but I do think they have to learn to foot it with their peers.
People are really tough when they have learnt to take the knocks and most people in their lives take a few knocks. No one has a completely charmed life and neither they should.
Everyone has to earn respect and one of the best ways is to be able to stand up for yourself. It has the advantage of increasing one’s own self respect. which in turn creates an attitude of respect for others.
One of life’s little quirks.
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December 21, 2008 1:16pm
johnbt

Madeleine….. human nature and growing up spring to mind.
I think there would be less bullying if kids were still allowed to play rough and actually touch each other. Those idiot women in sensible shoes who run our education system have lost the plot when it comes to understanding human nature and especially male aggression.
I have been thinking about global warming lately and am wondering how much longer I have to wait.
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December 21, 2008 1:26pm
artemisia

Talking of schools, there is an article in the SST today titled ‘Schools earn F for failure in report jargon’. Basically, some school reports are incomprehensible thus useless to parents. However, the comment from Frances Nelson, who heads the primary teachers’ union, the NZEI, as well as Fairburn School in Otahuhu, Auckland, was priceless. After saying ”In an ideal world you wouldn’t have that kind of jargon in kids’ reports. Parents just don’t understand it” she follows up with this gem – ”
She says schools should survey parents about what they’d like to see in reports. “Common sense should prevail, let’s face it.”

No wonder teachers complain about having too much admin to do if the union suggests they survey parents about what they want to see in reports. Common sense should prevail? What a splendid idea. Let’s start with the NZEI.
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December 21, 2008 2:32pm
Karen

I have to agree with Viking. My 13-year-old daughter is totally fed up with being taught about bullying. They have lessons on it, and the spectrum of what constitutes bullying seems awfully wide. Something else that really annoys me about the curriculum today, back when I was doing cooking and sewing, we cooked and we sewed. We made things every lesson. The only writing we had to do was the recipe and that was only if the teacher didn’t issue it as a handout. It’s a whole different ballgame these days. Before making anything, there’s all sorts of writing to be done about it, plans drawn up, lists made of materials, many lessons spent in preparation. Hence before making a drawstring bag, my daughter had to list who the stakeholders were going to be in this bag (herself using it, parents who will enjoy looking at it, teacher who will be pleased she completed it, that sort of thing). Similarly, in planning the hamburger she would be making, preparation of a list of stakeholders in the hamburger. And I’m sure boys would much prefer to be banging away with hammers doing the practical stuff than this kind of waffle. The manual subjects used to be enjoyable, a bit of relief from the rest, but they’ve taken the fun out of it, it seems.
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December 21, 2008 2:51pm
Banana Llama

I came across this half hour documentary from the 80’s about a KGB operative who had defected to the united states, basically he explains how the KGB was heavily involved in Phyops against the American public and how the KGB attempted to turn the Intellectual and Influential people of that country into Marxists Leninist or very left leaning supporters.

A very interesting video as it gives a bit more insight about the current crop of Drop kicks we have had to endure, among a few other things.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=915448763957391352
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December 21, 2008 2:56pm
stuarts-burgers

School Children should be tested against a National Standards and the results reported to their parents. I thought that was in the legislation passed last week did the SST not pick up on that

Did the SST approach the Minister of Education for their thought on this weighty matter or is it easier to get hold of the Teacher Union.
.
Oh yea that’s right the Minister of Education is a parent and not an Educator so how could they understand, even if they have some Educators in their family who could put them right
.
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December 21, 2008 2:58pm
adamsmith1922

No doubt stakeholders for the hamburger included the cow, the farmer, the man who transported the cow to the works, the abattoir owners, the slaughterman, the butcher, the miller who ground the wheat to make flour for the bun, the baker, etc, etc

Since when did making a hamburger require the establishment of stakeholders. To make a hamburger buy beef mince, season, shape into patty, grill, place in bun with desired dressings.

No stakeholder other than preparers desire to prepare and consume.

No wonder this country is in bottom of OECD
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December 21, 2008 3:00pm
artemisia

Far be it from me to support anything remotely PC. But … the discipline of identifying stakeholders and their interests is a good one IMHO. I have been in the workforce a few decades now and many times have seen biased info presented to management simply because only some points of view were represented. A bad basis for decision making. Identifying stakeholders for a burger or drawstring bag may seem OTT, but the principle is OK with me.
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December 21, 2008 3:12pm
Viking2

If you are making hamburgers to sell then the only stakeholder that really really matters is (wait for it) The Bloody CUSTOMER.
The rest are servants of the customer. No customer no pay.
Simple really. So like NZ Inc needs to do right now go out in the world and ask the bloody Customer what they want!
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December 21, 2008 4:00pm
Brian Smaller

Thorndon Primary had a “no touching” policy apparently. Somehow kids being kids and grabbing each other, playing virus and tag, hugging and generally being kids is not good social interaction any more.
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December 21, 2008 4:25pm
MT_Tinman

Having read the complete text of the first post of this thread I question the first four words.
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December 21, 2008 5:19pm
expat

The NZ public service lost the plot around 199x when everyone had to realign to new PC standards and guidelines, dissenters were and are viewed as bigots. Scary. Just look at the brainwashing trainee teachers receive, it is very disturbing. Broadly speaking I agree with Karen – less talk more action.
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December 21, 2008 8:33pm
Madeleine

I suggest you read what my son has been through this year, documented on my blog, and then tell me that he should just harden up and question my first four words.

Tell me that you would take that happily in your work place before you tell me I am being PC.
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December 21, 2008 9:59pm
expat

M, I was refering to Karens comments about the descent of NZ gumint depts into PC land. It seems PC land has failed to put in place the necessary structures at our schools. Less PC talk and more action addressing issues.
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December 21, 2008 10:27pm
Madeleine

Exactly. Where there is assault, serious harassment and theft going on it needs to be dealt with in a ‘real world’ manner.
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December 21, 2008 10:49pm

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