General Debate 12 December 2008

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homepaddock

How’s this for a radical move from a local body – the Otago Regional Council is considering sticking to it’s core business! http://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2008/12/12/orc-to-stick-to-core-business/
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December 12, 2008 8:36am
goodgod

The bill passed by 63 votes to 55 with National, Act and United Future voting in favour.

That, is the sound of a prosperous new future for NZ.

“…they’re ramming stuff through! We never did anything like that! oh my god the horror!…”

and that is the sound of deadwood being cut loose.

ther’e s alot of waffle about not being able to “debate” the issue before voting on it. But a quick look at the debates of the last few years goes to show the paucity of critical thinking skills in our parliament. Debate yes, thinking no.
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December 12, 2008 8:38am
pdm

Justice is 50% done with HBDHB being reinstated, albeit under the Chairmanship of Sir John Anderson.

When will the other 50% of this debacle begin with either a Royal Commission or the police investigating the actions of King, Lind, Hausmann, Hodgson and Cunliffe?
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December 12, 2008 8:38am
expat

PDM, yes, when will the rort be exposed at the HBDHB.
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December 12, 2008 8:44am
Ryan Sproull

ther’e s alot of waffle about not being able to “debate” the issue before voting on it. But a quick look at the debates of the last few years goes to show the paucity of critical thinking skills in our parliament. Debate yes, thinking no.

The election was the debate. National made no secret of the policies they’re now pushing through. If anyone who voted for National is now complaining about 90-day probationary periods, silly them.
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December 12, 2008 8:47am
tknorriss

Less debate the better IMO. Most of it is just meaningless waffle anyway.

Governments should be able to get on and impliment the policies they were voted in on as quickly as possible. Three years is quite a short time, so the quicker they are implimented, the more opportunity voters have to judge the success or otherwise of policies.
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December 12, 2008 8:59am
Murray

Ok apprently it was too complex a concept for the labour party so i’ll break it down.

“You’re” = You are, meaning that the next word applies specifically to you.

“fired” = terminated, no longer emplyed, awarded the DCM (don’t come Monday, given the boot, chucked out, let go, given the arse, shown the door, cut loose, no longer relevant. I could go on but unlike labour I have things to do.

Hopefully they’ll get the idea when the world keeps turning and New Zealand actually moves foward without them.

That dot in the distance getting smaller Phil, thats us. Seeyoubye.
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December 12, 2008 9:04am
Inventory2

pdm – have just posted about this. The best bit is that there will be full disclosure of all documents pertaining to the sacking – and who has the most to lose there?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/12/im-running-show-now-mr-cunliffe.html
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December 12, 2008 9:06am
peterwn

pdm – the chair of a DHB is a Government appointee, he or she is not elected by the board as is usual for boards.

However there is confusion in the Dom Post article – it refers to Sir John being chair of the ‘governance’ board – I presume that this is a misprint.

David Cunliffe (in the Dom Post print edition) indicated that a judical review had every prospect of succeeding (for the Government). Perhaps, however, his legal advisers feraed giving him advice he did not want to hear – a dangerous thing with the former vindictive Labour Led ™ Government.
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December 12, 2008 9:23am
dave strings

On another topic

POVERTY – let’s stop saying it!

One shining example in my life-time of a country getting itself OUT of penury and INto wealth is Singapore. Today, Singapore is a country of middle-class people with one of the best societal norms in the world. This has been achieved through vision, determination and hard work.

The vision came from the top, but was sold to EVERYONE, rich and poor. It was never lost sight of by the country’s leadership (they were ‘lucky’ in not having to suffer elections every three years,) and the population was constantly encouraged to keep working toward the common goal.

The determination came from parents and grandparents wanting to see their descendants, for many generations, have a lifestyle and life-quality that was the envy of the rest of the world. They did (and continue to do) whatever it took (takes) to achieve and maintain that goal; however, they did it by enabling their off-spring to achieve, not by giving them ‘things’.

The greatest ‘national work ethic’ I have ever come across is in Singapore, and I’ve visited many many countries on business. There is no ‘poor me, I need you to give me something’ attitude there that I have ever seen. There is a ‘what can I do for you that you will pay me for’ attitude from everyone though.

PUTTING THIS IN CONTEXT

In New Zealand we have created a societal sector that has been convinced that is is ‘oppressed’, ‘a lost cause’, ‘trapped in poverty’, ‘needy’ and many other demeaning terms that are contrived to keep them down where the do-gooders can feed their addiction and glow with self-praise. These people don’t need a glass bucket to slop around the bottom of, they need ladders and belief that they can climb.

The 90 day ‘opportunity’ that is being offered is one rung on a ladder, we need many more to achieve a state with the justifiable pride in accomplishment that Singapore has, to say nothing of its quality of life and life-style. My grandfather would probably find it hard to understand that a country as ‘backward’ as the Singapore he visited could now be so far ahead of a country with all the benefits and potential of the New Zealand of his days. However, my grandfather was a pragmatist and a worker, he died carrying a box of fresh fish to the fish and chip shop he and three school-friends ran in the Welsh Valleys – he was 92. His advice would be for us to all get off our fat arses and find some hard work to do – not bad advice for a country like ours in today’s world.

Or do you disagree?
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December 12, 2008 9:27am
KiwiGreg

“Pool or Library”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547704

How about neither and just dont spend the money at all.
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December 12, 2008 9:38am
david

re “Pool or Library”

My response would be to give the message to any council officer who suggested that these alternatives are mutually exclusive. That message would be instant dismissal. It is treating the ratepayers as ignorant and illiterate.

Mr Williams might like to answer a similar question . Should families pay their electricity account OR their water account when the household contains smokers, gamblers, drinkers, golfers and hot rod car rebuilders.

F*@#wit
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December 12, 2008 10:12am
grumpyoldhori

dave strings, what, have a bloke like Lee running the country.
National socialistic types would drop from the shock of not having nanny to bail them out of buying a over priced house etc.
Remember the rules in NZ, we are all OWED .
Just talk to some university student and listen to him whine that he has earned a good education to take overseas at taxpayer expense.

Question people, should we educate those who will be leaving NZ as soon as they have their degree ?
Or do we owe the young who want to leave NZ but want the NZ taxpayer to pay for their education.
Hmm, wonder where kiwi in America got his degree from ?
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December 12, 2008 10:39am
jacob van hartog

Gerry continues in his bumbling way…. again..

from the NZ herald

New Energy Minister Gerry Brownlee said unequivocally yesterday National would introduce an emissions trading scheme – the same day Parliament signed off a planned select committee review of such a scheme.

It marks National’s FOURTH position on the matter in the past six weeks.

I didnt know Gerry was so good at the Karma Sutra
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December 12, 2008 11:16am
ropata

grumpyoldhori,
Education is an investment in the future, it pays off eventually. Young grads exit NZ precisely because of depressed wages and inflated house prices. Your grumpy approach won’t make them want to stay.
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December 12, 2008 11:30am
PhilBest

GrumpyOldHori is being satirical, he knows that having a bloke like Lee Kuan Yew running NZ would be the best thing out for all the things that make him grumpy.

I’m with you on all that, Grumpy. We shouldn’t have a land use regulation racket that makes property so unaffordable in the first place; the 50’s and 60’s generation just got on and built houses and you could buy one for 3 years wages and still afford to keep a missus at home raising the kids. Now the same generation has strangled development for the next generation, so their own houses inflate in value, nice little retirement nest egg; while the next generation has to pay 12 years income for a house, or both you and your missus work and it is 6 years of your combined incomes to buy a house.

It gets a lot worse if you compare the interest rates, too; the current generation will be paying their overpriced houses off for the rest of their lives; the earlier generation had theirs paid off in ten years if they bothered to, because mortgage interest was tax deductible anyway. They’ve since earned six-figure capital gains on their properties, and a lot of them have taken that out and gone on a world cruise with the money.

We should just tell the anti-development Green and NIMBY types to shove it, the next generation of humans is more important than trees and snails. There is no reason at all apart from political reasons, that young folk can’t buy a section for 30 grand to build a house on. The regulators and the developers are effectively colluding in an extortion racket.
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December 12, 2008 12:29pm
PhilBest

I’m with Grumpy on the cost of Uni education too, a lot of things that are good for the country don’t get any mercy from the bloody petty socialists that most NZ-ers are; look at people who start a business and provide jobs, for example, is that good for the country or not? So what thanks do they get? Punitive legislation to obstruct them and drive them broke at every turn, and gouging taxation?

So why give people money to get a Uni education? There is far less guarantee that that will do any good for the country anyway; if we gave money to people who started businesses and provided jobs, instead of taking it off them, that would actually do a lot more good for the country.

Half the silly little kids who go to Uni learn stuff which is not only of no use to the country, it is an absolute detriment. If you want to go to Uni to learn how to conserve the environment and obstruct development, for example, or how to “empower” minorities and break down the western family tradition; you should just work your silly little arse off for a few years and save up the bucks to pay your own way.
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December 12, 2008 12:36pm
PhilBest

And by the way, as I was saying a couple of days before, I’m all for immigration of Asians who want to bring the best of their cultural attributes with them and leave the bad ones behind, which is the most valid reason anyone emigrates, and is the way Asian immigration has worked to NZ’s benefit already. All these hardworking people who look after themselves, their kids, and their old folk, and raise their kids in an intact family environment to do the same; we need as many of them as possible to vote politicians into parliament who stand for the same things.
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December 12, 2008 12:41pm
grumpyoldhori

Phil, for fun try this, ask a student if ALL eighteen years olds should be given the same amount of dosh with no exceptions, and watch them wriggle in trying to give a PC answer that says we should took extreme care of those at uni doing art degrees.
Amusing how so many of them believe they are bright enough for university but not bright enough to pay the full cost.

Even more amusing is the fact that so many of then believe we owe them an education to take overseas for good, before they have paid one cent of tax from a full time job.
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December 12, 2008 1:27pm
bearhunter

Not sure how many Massey alumni are on here, but check this out – they’re killing the Fitz.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatustandard/4790853a6003.html
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December 12, 2008 1:32pm
CraigM

From the NZ Herald : “Agnew murderer, rapist bows as given minimum 26 years”

“Reid still denies all the offending and refuses to take treatment. Attempts at treatment have been stopped because of his hostility.”

“He had 61 previous convictions” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

61 previous convictions. WTF was he still doing on the streets. This is a disgrace. He should have been in prison for life. Then he would not have been able to kill Miss Agnew.

Surely 61 convictions for ANYTHING shows a contempt for and wish to, no longer be part of society. We should have granted him his wish. MY GOD. We, society, are to blame for this womans death. He should not have been on the streets.
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December 12, 2008 3:47pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

The Eden Park stadium is the gift that keeps on giving:
Deadline fears for stadium

Too bad for serial whiners like Mark Donnelly, his local MP can’t do anything to stop the new Government putting into force the necessary laws to get Eden Park built on time.
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December 13, 2008 6:14am
expat

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4791192a13.html

Key leads the way for NZ tourism.
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December 13, 2008 8:53am

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