General Debate 10 December 2008

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Frank

It is alleged to Police Commissioner Howard Broad that:

Hon Dr Michael Cullen, Hon David Parker, ACC and Treasury Officials knew about the blow out of the ACC accounts and failed to disclose this stae of affairs in the run up to the 2008 Election so that it did not disadvantage the Labour led Government. These persons being in the Service of the Crown are in breach of the Crimes Act 1961 – Bribery and Corruption – Sections 99 to 116. Cabinet must also be included in the allegations as they would have been informed of the ACC blowout of the accounts
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December 10, 2008 7:54am
metcalph

Nothing’s changed in Chicago – Governor arrested for trying to sell a senate seat.
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December 10, 2008 7:55am
Graeme Edgeler

Come on DPF … urgency on bills we don’t even know the name of … wtf?
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December 10, 2008 8:05am
Glutaemus Maximus

Goff looks marginalised in his attempts to talk down the 90 day probation period for employment.

He talks about yesteryear. immersed in the past. NZ welcomes this sensible move by a huge Majority.

It will work.

I hate chancing my arn employing people here. In the UK we had 2 years probation, recently wound back to one year.
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December 10, 2008 8:07am
MyNameIsJack

GM, if you need two years probation, you shouldn’t be an employer. Maybe you need to improve your people selection skills.

Graeme, I’m with you – if these are the most urgent matters for the government to deal with then they are very myopic indeed. Attacks on workers is not the way to lift productivity, even if Farrar is still pissed off that by saving an ordinary worker can retire wealthy. I know, the only truly acceptable ways to wealth are money dealing and inheritance, not hard graft.
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December 10, 2008 8:11am
MyNameIsJack

In fact, talking of productivity, I’d like to see National outline how they plan to improve productivity when most of the productive jobs are already off shore.

How many more haircuts and lattes can a worker do in a day?
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December 10, 2008 8:13am
dad4justice

I wonder how many children get smacked on the head with a hammer or put in a washing machine this Christmas?
Good one bro.
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December 10, 2008 8:16am
expat

FatArse – its 90 days in the UK as far as I’m aware.

Jack – youre a cock.
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December 10, 2008 8:18am
MyNameIsJack

dad4justice (4466) Vote: 0 0 Says:

December 10th, 2008 at 8:16 am
I wonder how many children get smacked on the head with a hammer or put in a washing machine this Christmas?

I don’t know. How many children will be at your place this xmas?
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December 10, 2008 8:21am
Neil

I am a retired age political junkee who revels in Channel 94 Parliament channel. A few comments on the first two days in the house.
The anger of Labour was on full display yesterday with the arrogance of the previous government being confirmed.
Heading the “angry list” was Michael Cullen with a self seeking and angry attack on the new govt. Then the unedifying attack by Darren Hughes,his face a florid red, and the vitriol spilled from I thought was a reasonable guy. Hodgson,chewing away like a masticating cattle beast, was smooth and smarmy while Mallard was mud wrestling.They have a belief they are the natural leaders of government.
Labour have to get over things, the anger and nastiness was what put them out. I have the feeling Labour are going to stumble around like National did in 1999.
I was disturbed with Gerry Brownlee’s efforts as leader of the house where he was caught short procedurally.He seemed very unsure of himself. Lockwood Smith, the speaker, I believe is going to need to toughen up as well as the National members. Labor were using terms like “puffball”,”idiot” and other terms directed at new National ministers. Under the last governmenmt someone would have been point of ordered. I just felt that Lockwood Smith was trying to score brownie points from the opposition. Don’t let Mallard,Hodgson and Cullen get one ounce of traction,they’re mean and nasty.
Yesterday was Labours day in the house, the government seemed disorganized and still on the wave from the election. A few more days like that and they’re history
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December 10, 2008 8:26am
Glutaemus Maximus

Expat. Check again please. I may even be wrong.

Never needed two years Jack you twat. You rabid little scumbag. Just Fuck Off.
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December 10, 2008 8:27am
expat

FA – Hmm, I thought it was 90 but could be wrong as I’m parroting someone else.

Jack – boy.
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December 10, 2008 8:31am
dad4justice

Nice comment Jack, man just one hit please your honour? Smack.
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December 10, 2008 8:33am
wreck1080

Hanover investors voted yes – shows the gullible never learn.
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December 10, 2008 8:33am
sbk

MyNameIsJack says ..when most of the productive jobs are already off shore..yeah! thanks to Labour.
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December 10, 2008 8:34am
expat

Sideswipe: The tale of the farting dog
4:00AM Wednesday Dec 10, 2008
By Ana Samways

>A non-pink triangle: Does Auckland City Council not want the rainbow community on the roads? These stencils on >Auckland footpaths are amusing Auckland’s gay community, says GayNZ.com. (Thanks Mike.)

Oh how we all chortled. Anyone would think the Auckland gay community were self obsessed.
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December 10, 2008 8:37am
Glutaemus Maximus

expat. it is 18 months since I was an employer in the UK.

It was certainly one year before an employee could invoke an IT1.

As in their ability to take the company to an Industrial Tribunal.

That wasthe only way they could get compensation. However it was always sensible to follow full procedures for dismissal.
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December 10, 2008 8:38am
expat

Fairish nuff FA.

Maybe its a contract thing, 90 days trial that was mentioned when I was (half) paying attention to a conversation about hiring.
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December 10, 2008 8:43am
Brian Smaller

In a couple of years my boy will be getting his first job in a supermarket, or at Macdonalds or somewhere to keep himself in pocket money during the holidays. I have no problem with a probabtionary period for him. If he is a slacker and useless, he shoudl get canned. If not, he will be OK.
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December 10, 2008 9:12am
Buggerlugs

The clamour from the unions, Goff, and mynameisjackiliketowack over the 90 day period ignores a salient fact debated here before that MOST EMPLOYERS ARE GOOD BUGGERS WHO CAN’T AFFORD TO RETRAIN SOMEONE EVERY 90 DAYS. Fuckwits.
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December 10, 2008 9:17am
Tamaki Resident

Brian S – so the supermarket employs less than 20 people?

Why the limit of this bill on the number of employees? Will this not stop employers growing their business beyond 20 employees?
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December 10, 2008 9:25am
aardvark

So much for the government’s commitment to free enterprise, market forces and level playing fields.

They’re pulling the R&D tax incentives for those engaged in research and development but they’re also handing out taxpayers’ money like lollies to follies such as the Martin Jet Pack.

Nobody I’ve spoken to in the aviation or engineering industries has any doubt that the Martin Jetpack will never fly (at least in a commercial sense) but it’s just scored nearly a million dollars of *taxpayers* money.

How fair is it when you can take from one company (by way of tax) and give to its competitor to help develop and commercialise the same product?

I blogged about it today with a report from a meeting the NZ Jetpack Developers’ Association (NZJDA) and the debate this move has created within the industry.
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December 10, 2008 9:30am
expat

The Martin Jetpack may have military application?
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December 10, 2008 9:36am
Roflcopter

Quote of the day yesterday to John Key who (roughly) said “… Phil Goff is so transitional he’s also known as ‘Phil In’… ” rofl
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December 10, 2008 9:37am
expat

Brilliant rofl!
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December 10, 2008 9:39am
Brian Smaller

“Brian S – so the supermarket employs less than 20 people?”

Just an example – it could be at the local garage, working for a Greenacre franchisee. I don’t care. He should be on a probationary period wherever he works.
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December 10, 2008 9:42am
Brian Smaller

{“The clamour from the unions, Goff, and mynameisjackiliketowack over the 90 day period ignores a salient fact debated here before that MOST EMPLOYERS ARE GOOD BUGGERS WHO CAN’T AFFORD TO RETRAIN SOMEONE EVERY 90 DAYS. Fuckwits.”

That is because those opposing this measure have never been employers. They wouldn’t appreciate that simple fact that there is a major cost in employing and training a person – even in many apparently menial jobs. Most workers are negative producers in their first few months as they need supervision and training. Getting rid of people every 90 days would be a recipe for business failure.
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December 10, 2008 9:46am
big bruv

Great to see the Greens reverting to their Marxist origins, Comrade Norman is berating the house for introducing tax cuts for Nationals “mates”.

Given the economic downturn I do wonder what relevance the Greens have in todays Parliament.
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December 10, 2008 9:53am
big bruv

I fucking love the new Parliament!

“Ginga” Hughes is pissing and moaning about things being “unfair”, tough fucking luck Pinko!.
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December 10, 2008 9:56am
expat

>Given the economic downturn I do wonder what relevance the Greens have in todays Parliament.

None, besides emptying the compost bin from the soko rooms. Those tea bags all add up!
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December 10, 2008 9:58am
mike12

“Given the economic downturn I do wonder what relevance the Greens have in todays Parliament.”

They are irrelevant.

But that could have been so much different had they hedged their bets before the election instead of hitching themselves to the sinking ship. Labour fucked the greens when in power and have done it again when in opposition -hang your heads Fitzsimons and Norman
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December 10, 2008 10:16am
dad4justice

The red greens are way past any use. I was at my beach the other day and I am sure I saw a Nandor turd in the surf. The Utopian creeps are senseless nutters who have helped to ruin the country.
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December 10, 2008 10:17am
Redbaiter

“Nothing’s changed in Chicago – Governor arrested for trying to sell a senate seat.”

Yeah well, that could lead to something interesting.
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December 10, 2008 10:30am
PhilBest

How democracy dies:

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

Survey finds most Obama voters remembered negative coverage of McCain/Palin statements but struggled to correctly answer questions about coverage associated with Obama/Biden

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

71.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet…..

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her “house,” even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we “gave” one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)

ETC………..

Keep a watch on that site, it is starting to look “not good” for the MSM in the USA……….
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December 10, 2008 10:58am
PhilBest

Meanwhile, our own Trevor Loudon is watching what Obama’s “former” friends from among the ranks of the Weathermen, are saying on the Blogosphere:

http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/12/obama-file-55-former-terrorists-discuss.html

Former Weatherman Mark Rudd writes:

“Obama is a very strategic thinker. He knew precisely what it would take to get elected and didn’t blow it…But he also knew that what he said had to basically play to the center to not be run over by the press, the Republicans, scare centrist and cross-over voters away…What he’s doing now is moving on the most popular issues — the environment, health care, and the economy. He’ll be progressive on the environment because that has broad popular support; health care will be extended to children, then made universal, but the medical, pharmaceutical, and insurance corporations will stay in place…the economic agenda will stress stimulation from the bottom sometimes and handouts to the top at other times. It will be pragmatic…On foreign policy and the wars and the use of the military there will be no change at all. That’s what keeping Gates at the Pentagon and Clinton at State and not prosecuting the torturers is saying. And never, never threaten the military budget. That will unite a huge majority of congress against him.

And I agree with this strategy. Anything else will court sure defeat. Move on the stuff you can to a small but significant extent, gain support and confidence. Leave the military alone because they’re way too powerful. For now, until enough momentum is raised. By the second or third year of this recession, when stimulus is needed at the bottom, people may begin to discuss cutting the military budget if security is being increased through diplomacy and application of nascent international law……

“……Obama plays basketball. I’m not much of an athlete, barely know the game, but one thing I do know is that you have to be able to look like you’re doing one thing but do another. That’s why all these conservative appointments are important: the strategy is feint to the right, move left. Any other strategy invites sure defeat. It would be stupid to do otherwise in this environment…..

“…….Look to the second level appointments. There’s a whole govt. in waiting that Podesta has at the Center for American Progress. They’re mostly progressives, I’m told (except in military and foreign policy). Cheney was extremely effective at controlling policy by putting his people in at second-level positions…..

“…….Read Obama’s first book, ‘Dreams from My Father.’ The second section is the story of his three years doing community organizing in Chicago. It’s some of the best writing on organizing I’ve ever seen. That’s all it’s about, the core of the book. Obama learned many lessons of strategy and patience. Then read the first section, on his family and growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. No other president has ever had such intimate experience with class and race. The final section is about his trip to Kenya. No other president has ever had an understanding of not only race, but colonialism and neo-colonialism, even using the terms. It’s the whole story he tells of his African family and especially his father, a victim of neo-colonialism. As was his step-father in Indonesia……

“…..This is no stupid guy…Had any of the stupid Republicans read his books, they never could have said, ‘We don’t know who this guy is.’ You know every thought he’s ever had……”

Another former Weatherman, Jeff Jones, agrees:

“……All of this leads me to the same conclusion reached by Mark Rudd: this guy is really SMART. He is setting Hillary Clinton up to be the public face of his effort to end the Iraq war. He is going to successfully extort green concessions from Detroit. He will convince Congress to pass a major stimulus package that will lay the foundation for the development of an alternative energy manufacturing industry. He will do something to help reduce housing foreclosures. He will let the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire.

These various initiatives, which will collectively set the nation on a path towards energy independence, ending the war and redistributing financial resources downward, are presented as unconnected pieces of legislation but actually they are interlocking components of Obama’s coherent multi-layered agenda. His centrist appointments are a smokescreen; they co-opt the moderate center, but he’s still the commander in chief. Even Lenin would be impressed!….”

HMMMMMMMMM…………….
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December 10, 2008 11:05am
PhilBest

# Redbaiter (4730) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
December 10th, 2008 at 10:30 am

“Nothing’s changed in Chicago – Governor arrested for trying to sell a senate seat.”

“Yeah well, that could lead to something interesting.”

Chicago Politics as usual. That is the mileu through which our B. H. Obama made his end run to the top. Remember he won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot; but note that the MSM’s total abdication of their responsibility to provide true and important information means that 82.6% of Obama voters remained unaware of that fact; along with all of the other negative stuff about their idol.
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December 10, 2008 11:10am
big bruv

Is it just me or does anybody else listening to Parliament get a little bit annoyed when you hear pricks like Cunliffe talk about tax cuts as if it was their money in the first place?.
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December 10, 2008 11:21am
lloydois

Bottom line PhilBest he’s black and cosmopolitan so can’t be trusted. And to think 82.6% of Democrat voters aren’t as smart as you. What’s NOT to worry?
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December 10, 2008 11:31am
david c

Jesus Christ you make this blog unreadable Phil. Just post the f*cking link and be done with it. Stop copying and pasting.
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December 10, 2008 11:32am
Chuck Bird

How many have heard of this murder? Notice the difference with a woman murder’s her spouse.

Firstly, if this had of been the other way around this would have been a lot more in the MSM. I doubt a man would have received the minimum 10 year sentence.

It is reported that the man pushed her up against the wall with his hand over her mouth. Was this ever proven or what she claimed.

If a man killed his partner would sexual abuse – alleged or real – be taken into account in mitigation?

I recall when the Parnell panther received 25 years for multiple rapes no one thought the fact that he had been sexually abused as a child should be taken into account. I am not saying that it should have been but believe there should be consistency.

I am not anti woman but I think this sort of thing should be highlighted in view of the underreporting of female violence and misrepresentation of the facts on family violence by the MSM and government funded organisations.

[url]http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/mother-jailed-life-murder-partner/5/6400[/url]

Mother Jailed For Life For Murder Of Partner

(9 December 2008)

Wellington, Dec 9 NZPA – A Northland mother-of-four was sentenced in the High Court in Whangarei today to life imprisonment, with a non-parole period of 10 years, for murdering her partner with a steak knife.

Rangi Marie Reti, 39, a cleaner from Russell, was found guilty in October of murdering 27-year-old Anthony Garvey.

She was also found guilty of wounding Mr Garvey with intent to cause him grievous bodily harm.

During her trial the court heard Reti and Mr Garvey had been drinking at a house in Whiteman Road, Kawakawa in September last year.

She first stabbed him in the thigh, and later in the day stabbed him in the chest with a steak knife.

Defence lawyer Murray Gibson said Reti had never intended to kill him, just hurt him.

He said she suffered from post traumatic stress disorder that stemmed from being raped as an eight-year-old.

When Mr Garvey pushed her up against the wall with his hand over her mouth, she released her childhood anger as an adult. NZPA WGT kc dj gt
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December 10, 2008 11:34am
Johnboy

“Is it just me or does anybody else listening to Parliament get a little bit annoyed when you hear pricks like Cunliffe talk about tax cuts as if it was their money in the first place?.”

Give the poor bastard a break BB it must be hard for some one with an ego like his who thought he was “running the show” to accept that a hospital cleaner is more important than him now. They always were of course even when he was the minister.
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December 10, 2008 11:37am
Redbaiter

MEMO

TO: Labour Party, Green Party, cc sundry leftist groups

FROM: Redbaiter

SUBJECT: Fresh Troops

Dear All,

Can we please have so fresh blood from your side. I’m bored with the current crop of uninformed knuckle draggers and dickwads. Fools who call the African American Alan Keyes a racist because of his lawsuit asking Obama to release his real BC. Lamers who can’t think outside whatever attack template has filtered down from above- example Sarah Palin, a float plane pilot, is dumb or asking Obama to abide by constitutional requirements is a “conspiracy theory”. John Key is a rich prick who cannot identify with poor people when his origins are state house and single mother.

Please retire Mynameisjackass, Illydopey, AG, Ratbiter (yawn) and various other troops on the grounds that they’re obviously shell shocked, over stressed, tired, old, cliched, out of ideas and completely ineffective as a strike force.

I suggest replacements with wit, intelligence, at least a reasonable level of education, some knowledge of the world today, and some idea of the intricacies of the political battlefield. Most of all though, they need to be fully trained in comprehension. I just don’t have the time to correct their many miscomprehensions and misconstructions, and it is fucking boring having to do so.

Such qualities are of course almost impossible to find in the ranks of the left, given that the truly intelligent always move on from leftism. Nevertheless I urge you to do the best I can, and if there are no replacements to be found meeting the above criteria then I suggest you still put the above old nags out to pasture as they’re actually doing your cause a lot more harm than good.

Yours in sincere hope for a better level of competition
Redbaiter.
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December 10, 2008 11:38am
Johnboy

Thats a bit cruel RB. Ratsarse has a doctorate in reinforced concrete construction and was (and still is a child prodigy).
He must be as he still dribbles and craps in his nappies.
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December 10, 2008 11:43am
Chuck Bird

How many have heard of this murder? Notice the difference with a woman murder’s her spouse.

Firstly, if this had of been the other way around this would have been a lot more in the MSM. I doubt a man would have received the minimum 10 year sentence.

It is reported that the man pushed her up against the wall with his hand over her mouth. Was this ever proven or what she claimed.

If a man killed his partner would sexual abuse – alleged or real – be taken into account in mitigation?

I recall when the Parnell panther received 25 years for multiple rapes no one thought the fact that he had been sexually abused as a child should be taken into account. I am not saying that it should have been but believe there should be consistency.

I am not anti woman but I think this sort of thing should be highlighted in view of the underreporting of female violence and misrepresentation of the facts on family violence by the MSM and government funded organisations.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/mother-jailed-life-murder-partner/5/6400

Mother Jailed For Life For Murder Of Partner

(9 December 2008)

Wellington, Dec 9 NZPA – A Northland mother-of-four was sentenced in the High Court in Whangarei today to life imprisonment, with a non-parole period of 10 years, for murdering her partner with a steak knife.

Rangi Marie Reti, 39, a cleaner from Russell, was found guilty in October of murdering 27-year-old Anthony Garvey.

She was also found guilty of wounding Mr Garvey with intent to cause him grievous bodily harm.

During her trial the court heard Reti and Mr Garvey had been drinking at a house in Whiteman Road, Kawakawa in September last year.

She first stabbed him in the thigh, and later in the day stabbed him in the chest with a steak knife.

Defence lawyer Murray Gibson said Reti had never intended to kill him, just hurt him.

He said she suffered from post traumatic stress disorder that stemmed from being raped as an eight-year-old.

When Mr Garvey pushed her up against the wall with his hand over her mouth, she released her childhood anger as an adult. NZPA WGT kc dj gt
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December 10, 2008 11:44am
PhilBest

Thank you, Redbaiter, well said.

DavidC, if you followed those links you would see that I am doing you a favour, I have cut and pasted the important bits that you might not have had the patience to get to among all the rest of the clutter on those web pages.

But I DO recommend everyone watches the video on that page:

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

Illydois, I have always said that only a “Black, cosmopolitan” who is handsome and articulate and a superb liar, and with the MSM completely in the tank for him, could have had a show of pulling off the presidency despite the enormous baggage of a hard-left background. No white hard-leftist would have had a show of doing it. Look at the chances of, say, Bernie Sanders or even Joe Biden himself, or Harry Reid or Barney Frank; of becoming President.

Visit that site, everybody, look at the poll results, watch the video; you decide for yourself whether Illydois’ sneering is justified. That’s all I ask.
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December 10, 2008 11:51am
slijmbal

Phil …. why do we care? So the average yank who voted for obama is stupid – what’s new?
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December 10, 2008 12:42pm
baxter

I wonder how much Obama had to pay for the seat in the first place and whether he gets a commission on the resale.
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December 10, 2008 1:00pm
Buggerlugs

NEWS RELEASE Date 10 December 2008 Time 1:00pm
Everyone needs to play their part

Reserve Bank Governor Alan Bollard said today that further monetary
policy easings depend on all sectors of the economy responding to
reduced demand and not adding inflationary pressures to the system.

“We would hope that the electricity industry does not take advantage of
its market position and keep increasing rates, that local authorities
realise they need to set rates increases below inflation for a change,
that the construction materials industry respond to much weaker demand,
that the food industry react to lower international commodity prices
with price cuts, that petrol companies keep cutting forecourt prices,
that the transport industry pass on fuel price cuts, and that the banks
pass on interest rate cuts. Only then will all these firms be playing
their proper role in New Zealand’s recovery.”

Gee, and I hope the fucking Government departments pissing my money away got a memo re this too, Dr Bollocks.
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December 10, 2008 1:27pm
philu

the dead-rat-swallowing has started early for the maori party..

..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/comment-whoarhere-comes-the-second-in-a-row-dead-rat-for-the-maori-party-to-swallow/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 10, 2008 1:37pm
Johnboy

Should that be dead Kiore phil?

No sweat for them part of their regular diet on the voyage from Hawaiki.
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December 10, 2008 1:44pm
philu

and how about that bollard..?..eh..?

..’the recession is over..!’..

(his ‘hoover-statement’..)

(knee-slappingly funny..!..eh..?..)

..but also very feckin’ scary..

..cos he obviously hasn’t got a feckin’ clue about what’s going on/down..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 10, 2008 1:47pm
bearhunter

“the underreporting of female violence and misrepresentation of the facts on family violence by the MSM and government funded organisations.”

A quick google shows that this story was also run by the ODT, Newstalk, TVNZ, the Northern Advocate, 3News, the Herald, Yahoo news, More FM and Stuff. I don’t think the MSM can be accused of under-reporting it.
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December 10, 2008 1:53pm
AG

Ah, but Bearhunter … did they make it their main front page story, complete with 150 point headline reading “Women just as violent as men – one incident proves this beyond all possible argument!”

Did they? Huh? NO. Bloody MSM. Not doing exactly what I think they should.
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December 10, 2008 1:57pm
big bruv

Phool

How’s the job search going?
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December 10, 2008 2:01pm
georgedarroch

From No Right Turn

So, what’s in the urgency motion? There’s no Order Paper, but thanks to email, I have a rough list:

* Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill, all stages
* Two procedural motions to reinstate business and set up the ETS review committee
* 90 day bill all stages
* Bail bill all stages
* An education bill on national standards all stages
* A sentencing bill all stages
…

So, how about that urgency.

Say what you like about the Labour Government, in their entire time in office they only put through two bills under urgency for all stages. One was the Duynhoven bill, and the other was a budget patch-up. Neither were policy bills, and neither were particularly complicated or had great implications. Neither of these actions were commendable, but they didn’t bother me much. The ETS and several other bills were rushed through urgency in their final stage, but had been through several readings, debates, and select committees. They had had the scrutiny of the public.

The report from Parliament is the MPs are voting on these bills, without even having the chance to read them. The Herald reports that some of those are not even at the drafting stage yet. They don’t even have titles! When you have major policy bills written in just a few days, there are bound to be mistakes. There is no chance for the public or those with expertise to give input. There is not a chance for the MPs to properly examine the bills, and challenge any possible mistakes or flaws. We have these procedures for good reason.

This is quite simply phenomenal.
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December 10, 2008 2:04pm
georgedarroch

Oh, There’s no Order Paper.
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December 10, 2008 2:21pm
AG

Yep.

Much as it pains me to link to this site … have a look at:

http://www.maxim.org.nz/files/pdf/jeremywaldron_parliamentaryrecklessness.pdf

The one that really pisses me off is the Bail Bill. Under the NZ Bill of Rights Act, s.24:
“Rights of persons charged
Everyone who is charged with an offence—
…
(b) Shall be released on reasonable terms and conditions unless there is just cause for continued detention.”

At the least, the Bail Bill implicates this right (it might be a justified limit on the right, it might not). But MPs are being forced to vote on it without the chance for some extensive deliberation and public input. That sucks. That really sucks.
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December 10, 2008 2:23pm
georgedarroch

(it might be a justified limit on the right, it might not).

But we’re not going to have the chance to know, until after they’ve voted for it. How’s that?

We could be revoking completely the right to bail (which, I should remind people, is temporary release of people who have not yet been found guilty of any crime ie. presumed innocent under the law) except under exceptional circumstances. You have no idea…
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December 10, 2008 2:30pm
Johnboy

Takes a bit of urgency to clean up the nine years of left wing mismanagement so we can get on with improving the living standards of New Zealanders.
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December 10, 2008 2:32pm
AG

“But we’re not going to have the chance to know”

More to the point, we (as in the NZ public) aren’t going to have a chance to express our views directly through the select committee stage.

Assuming that this IS passed under urgency. i really hope it isn’t.
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December 10, 2008 2:33pm
AG

“Takes a bit of urgency to clean up the nine years of left wing mismanagement so we can get on with improving the living standards of New Zealander”

Ah yes – the old “ends justifies the means” excuse. Interesting how it gets wheeled out any time the side you like does something it so vocally and passionately denounced not six months ago.
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December 10, 2008 2:43pm
virtualmark

GeorgeDarroch, I support all of those bills listed by NRT (but not listed on an Order Paper!). But I do feel uncomfortable with several of them being pushed through all stages under urgency.

I don’t see any problems pushing the tax changes and the procedural motions under urgency. There’s nothing too controversial in those bills, and it’s clear how the changes fit in to existing arrangements.

But I don’t see any drivers that insist the 90 day bill, the bail changes, the education bill and sentencing bill have to be pushed through under urgency. Pushed through the normal process as briskly as possible by all means, but I can’t see how life as we know it will end if these aren’t in place until, say, 1 April 2009. Certainly I don’t see any major drivers that justify skipping the select committee processes that let the general public have their input into the bills.

These are all good initiatives. But no, I don’t think the ends justify the means.
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December 10, 2008 2:54pm
virtualmark

Does the 90 day probation bill apply to politicians too?

If we don’t think they’re up for it after 90 days in the job can we let them go?
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December 10, 2008 2:55pm
AG

virtualmark,

Only in Canada, apparently!
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December 10, 2008 2:57pm
Johnboy

“Ah yes – the old “ends justifies the means” excuse. Interesting how it gets wheeled out any time the side you like does something it so vocally and passionately denounced not six months ago.”

Yeah great isn’t it and I am Lovin it.
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December 10, 2008 2:59pm
georgedarroch

Does the 90 day probation bill apply to politicians too?

If we don’t think they’re up for it after 90 days in the job can we let them go?

Nope, more than 20 employees 🙂

Only in Canada, apparently!

Now there’s a dismissal law I can support!
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December 10, 2008 3:03pm
Turpin

I think we’re stuck with them for 1000 days isn’t it?

Did Key say he was going to be transparent and open like Helen did?

Should have voted for ACT, silly!

Rodney wouldn’t stand for this rubbish would he?

I concur with VitualMark, “But no, I don’t think the ends justify the means.”

but I don’t expect too much shouting here
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December 10, 2008 3:04pm
georgedarroch

Rodney wouldn’t stand for this rubbish would he?

He voted for the motion, so yes he is standing for it.
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December 10, 2008 3:07pm
Johnboy

Heres a good bit of news for you lefties you can all get your hands off of it for a while, have fun and earn a little prize at the same time.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4788745a4560.html

Could only happen under a National lead administration as we have sacked the fun police.
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December 10, 2008 3:08pm
gd

I just cant wait for about 6 months when the Yanks and others discover that Obama is just a cardboard cutout and all the promises have come to nothing

Gosh the bleating and squealing of the stuck pigs will be loud
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December 10, 2008 3:09pm
Johnboy

Ah sorry guys I just read where it says you have to be 16 or over. Puts most of you out.
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December 10, 2008 3:10pm
Turpin

same might be said for our John Boy.
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December 10, 2008 3:11pm
virtualmark

I just figure that bail, sentencing and educational standards are all important things that the general public should have a chance to submit on.

Sure, the usual suspects will trot out the usual submissions – the unions will say probationary periods will lead to the rape of the worker, and teachers will say that educational standards are too technical for non-teachers to understand. But hidden among the “they would say that” rants will be some good input that will make for better law.

Push them through under urgency and we’ll have flawed law by Christmas. Take a bit more time and we’ll have more comprehensive law in place by April. I just don’t see why we can’t afford the extra 3 months or so.

BTW … I would support urgency though for any changes to ACC. It’s obvious that ACC is broken, and the Nats should be working bloody hard to put some fixes in place asap.
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December 10, 2008 3:11pm
AG

Turpin,

Which version of JB’s birth certificate would you like to see? The long form, short form or fantasy one?
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December 10, 2008 3:13pm
Johnboy

The long form is only of interest to you if you can read Swahili, just like Obamas.
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December 10, 2008 3:16pm
Ross Miller

The really funny/scary/sad thing about Obama is that he campaigned on bringing change to Washington. And you look at his cabinet and really it’s more of the same snouts in the trough + an (un)healthy dose of Tamney Hall thrown in for good measure. Change … hell no. More Government spending … you bet. Record deficits … guaranteed (and where’s the money to fund that coming from?).

THer’s gonna be plenty of more financial turmoil in the years ahead.
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December 10, 2008 3:58pm
xy

blah. Labour smashing bad law (EFB, ETS) into place under urgency is what convinced me to not vote for them. Immediately seeing National do the same thing is extremely fucking disappointing.
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December 10, 2008 4:40pm
big bruv

I am just listening to Comrade Soper chat with Larry Williams on ZB, I don’t know why Soper just does not admit that he is a rabid left winger and stand for Labour at the next election, the man is a complete and utter wanker.
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December 10, 2008 4:41pm
Chuck Bird

“A quick google shows that this story was also run by the ODT, Newstalk, TVNZ, the Northern Advocate, 3News, the Herald, Yahoo news, More FM and Stuff. I don’t think the MSM can be accused of under-reporting it.”

The Herald reported the trial but not the sentence and neither did Stuff as far as I can see.

I believe if a man had just been sentenced for murdering his partner the two main print media would have reported it.

We hear about all the women murdered by their partners. I doubt if you could find a man convicted of murdering his partner would receive the 10 year minimum non parole period.
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December 10, 2008 5:16pm
Johnboy

” the man is a complete and utter wanker.”

Yeah I heard that as well the best bit was when he tried to justify Phil In telling Paula Bennett she should have asked the token Indian Rajan for his opinion re the waste of our cash at the bloody families pissup commission. The dumb bastard has not realised who won the election either just like the rest of the labour lackeys
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December 10, 2008 5:18pm
dad4justice

Hi Chuck,yes you are so right. We can’t have equality and opportunity when gender preference is so prevalent in our courts. Regarding the role of men in society, forget the pendulum theory as radical feminists have infiltrated the slippery judiciary.
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December 10, 2008 6:01pm
grumpyoldhori

I notice a hell of a lot of Islanders living in garages and wanting to be housed at taxpayer expense.
Message for you people, if you stopped giving 10% of your gross income to bloody sects you could save a decent bloody deposit over five years with the number of adults in the average Islander home.
A that goes for those dumb horis who are members of that destiny mob.
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December 10, 2008 8:05pm
dad4justice

What about the dumb horis that pull the pokie machine handles you hateful pig.
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December 10, 2008 8:15pm
grumpyoldhori

dad4justice , you misspelled helpful 🙂
Pokies, well at least with them there is a bloody slim chance of getting some dosh back.
So should we help those who give a lot of their income to sects ?
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December 10, 2008 8:20pm
dad4justice

Whatever hori, I can’t be bothered confronting your dislike of Christianity. Why should I bother. You aren’t helpful hori and grumpy old pricks are a fucking pain in the butt .
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December 10, 2008 8:24pm
Rich Prick

Did any one else notice two items on One News tonight (Herceptin and housing) where what looked like traditional Labour voters actually said “thank you National”. Helen must have been scowling over her curried mince on toast.
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December 10, 2008 9:09pm
big bruv

I note that the apartheid party has said that it will not support the 90 day bill currently being ushered through under urgency, this raises two issues for me.

1. We need that referendum on MMP as soon as possible, this type of “Minister outside of Caucus” bullshit must stop.

2. Key should be laying down the law with the Apartheid party right now, it should be a case of abstention or support but never should they vote against the government, if they insist in this crap then he would be best to tell them to fuck off right now and give the Maori affairs portfolio to Simon Bridges and be done with it.
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December 10, 2008 9:10pm
big bruv

I agree with the words of Hori, the way the PI churches and the destiny lot rape their congregation every week is a bloody crime.

I have to say that it pisses me off no end that our fucking pinko media is all over the housing shortage when there is a change of government, where were the bastards when Labour were in power?
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December 10, 2008 9:14pm
Rich Prick

I hadn’t thought of it like that big bruv, but you’re right! Up side is that its making National look good with Islanders saying thank you to National though. Shame they aren’t saying “and fuck you Labour” but I suspect we will get there.

And I agree with your comments on tithes, nearly as bad as Labour Party … woops, I mean union fees.
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December 10, 2008 9:21pm
Tauhei Notts

Big Bruv,
The Apartheid Party’s view on the 90 day bill, that only applies to employers that have less than twenty employees, and do not forget that basic, but oh so important fact, is very silly.
This is the opportunity I have been waiting for so that young, seemingly unemployable, Maori can get out there and prove that they can be exceedingly good workers. Because the statistics suggest that one should not sell goods on credit to anybody who employs Maori youth. The risk is too great. But there are some gems amongst that group of youth, and this employment bill finally gives them the chance to show how good they really are.
But I doubt if the Apartheid Party wants them to progress; they are too busy riding the grievance gravy train.
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December 10, 2008 9:29pm
PaulL

I’m with virtualmark. No good reason for urgency on some of these bills.
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December 10, 2008 9:44pm
Steve

90 days.
If I employ you, then you work for me on the first day.
If you do not do the job, sorry it’s goodbye.
Harden up you wimps, if you are being paid to do something, then do it or fuck off.
You could try being an employer trying to employ workers or unemployable people.
You want to earn money? work for it instead of riding on the 90 day must be paid bullshit.
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December 10, 2008 9:45pm
Rich Prick

“This is the opportunity I have been waiting for so that young, seemingly unemployable, Maori can get out there and prove that they can be exceedingly good workers.”

You are so right Tauhei. So right. And imagine how empowering it would be for those who have always been told by implication that they are useless and in need of protection, to actually cut it on their own. There may be even be a reduction in that feeling of patronised uselessness being taken out on babies and small children.
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December 10, 2008 9:58pm
Patrick Starr

What else did you notice from the one news item on housing,??? the kids playing xbox, the sky digital satellite dish on the state house and none of the pacific island umpalumpa women looked like they were going without their KFC

It doesn’t look like poverty, more like laziness
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December 10, 2008 10:38pm
Rich Prick

Yes, noticed all of that Patrick, along with large stero set-ups , looks more like a life choice to me. And I have seen how they live in the Cook Islands, not too dis-similar to the garages we are expected to feel somehow guilty about, its just what they know and are used to, if that is their choice. Lets not rush to pay for what they think they deserve simply because they bought a one way ticket to New Zealand rather than taking advantage of the opportunities we offer them.
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December 10, 2008 10:49pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

A good bit of general coverage of MP’s maiden speeches:
MPs deliver maiden speeches

Amy Adams says it well, “New Zealand has been heading down a dead-end street for most of the last decade.”
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December 10, 2008 11:00pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Who else is looking forward to Roger Douglas’s maiden speech?
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December 10, 2008 11:11pm
Patrick Starr

Yep, but they are only able to take advantage as long as new ministers get sucked into it.
Agree with you on how they live in the islands as I’ve spent time there too. A concrete floor and lined skyline garage would be a luxury in most cases
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December 10, 2008 11:11pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Luxury, we used to live in the middle of the Road.
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December 11, 2008 7:28am
Murray

Sealed road????
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December 11, 2008 9:02am

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