General Debate 6 November 2008

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Don the Kiwi

The Americans felt it was time for a change.

New Zealanders feel exactly the same way -roll on Saturday.

Bye bye Heilen

Welcome John.
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November 6, 2008 8:02am
Redbaiter

Scumbag Dunne as speaker?? Yeech.. can’t we be rid of this worthless charlatan??
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November 6, 2008 8:07am
Lindsay Addie

Dunne as speaker, he’ll think he’s the pope if they give him that job.

Lie the idea of Hide as Minister in Charge of Prisons
Nick Smith in cabinet = No thanks.
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November 6, 2008 8:13am
wynkie

Two more sleeps:-)
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November 6, 2008 8:14am
Rakaia George

Nah Red: Nat / Act / UF can govern alone…Tariana as speaker. Is there a laughing emoticon around here anywhere?
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November 6, 2008 8:14am
slightlyrighty

I could handle Dunne as Speaker. Anything would be better than the screeching of the partisan harriden who is the incumbent!
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November 6, 2008 8:16am
getstaffed

Colmar Brunton out today. I wonder what they’ve been ‘guided’ to report?
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November 6, 2008 8:18am
Redbaiter

“Anything would be better than the screeching of the partisan harriden who is the incumbent!”

Yeah, so bad she actually managed to make that smug commie bastard Hunt look good.
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November 6, 2008 8:19am
getstaffed

See that boobs on bikes have been told that commercial events can’t be held in parliament grounds. I’m sure that any time other than just before the election would have been ok’ed, but Helen will be keen to distance herself from sexual liberation side of her social engineering legacy.
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November 6, 2008 8:22am
Michaels

Lockwood will be speaker.
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November 6, 2008 8:26am
goodgod

Helen’s a “free spirit” she says – she “…doesn’t have partners she has relationships…” Tears welled up in her eyes. So for all those who have asked, there is your admission.
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November 6, 2008 8:27am
goodgod

I’d be happy to see Clem Simich as speaker. That’d wipe the sneery grimace off those fuckin’ socialists.
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November 6, 2008 8:28am
Michaels

Did anyone notice that Barack Obama has become President on a normal ticket?
Another good reason not to have race based seats.
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November 6, 2008 8:29am
Lindsay Addie

Simich has retired from parliament.
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November 6, 2008 8:29am
Chicken Little

Kees has confessed.

He just did it for the good of the country. He has no agenda. He is affiliated to no political party. He’s just a good guy trying to do whats right. He won’t release the full tapes. – piss off you communist prick.

On the same note, I wouldn’t normally promote The Stranded, but mate, what a laugh. The shrillness is ear piercing over there at the moment from authors and commenter s alike as they stare their worst nightmare in the face. Its sad and funny at the same time. So if you need a bit of cheering up go over there and see what a complete bunch of losers really sound like.

GO THE NATS.
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November 6, 2008 8:32am
Redbaiter

Greens/ Global Warmers get their arses kicked in California-

Proposition 7 Renewable Energy Generation
Yes 3,294,158 35.1%
No 6,102,907 64.9%

Proposition 10 Alternative Fuel Vehicles
Yes 3,742,997 40.1%
No 5,581,303 59.9%
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November 6, 2008 8:36am
mike12

Yes CL it is very sad. At least the republicans were gracious losers
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November 6, 2008 8:37am
Lindsay Addie

Re the election result. I think the outcome is a forgone conclusion.

I do want to say although I disagree with Clark’s political views passionately I’ve concluded after watching her on the debate she will quite possibly bow out with some sort of dignity.

I don’t see Cullen, Winston and Jamberton doing the same though.
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November 6, 2008 8:39am
kiwipolemicist

New Zealand elections are a farce because whoever we vote for will have as much power as an absolute monarch and we are never offered freedom.

Having said that, I will still vote because some rulers are not as cruel as others.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/election-2008-choosing-your-slave-master/
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November 6, 2008 8:46am
Redbaiter

“Re the election result. I think the outcome is a forgone conclusion.”

I do too. More of the same big government bullshit.
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November 6, 2008 8:47am
Redbaiter

“New Zealand elections are a farce because whoever we vote for will have as much power as an absolute monarch and we are never offered freedom.”

Its all about bi-partisanship, reaching out, blah blah blah- Those winners Bush and McCain showed how to do it.
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November 6, 2008 8:50am
studmasternz

Thought you may be interested in this online poll from a racing website hence NZF’s high rating ….

ACT 9.62%
Green 9.62%
Labour 5.77%
Maori 3.85%
National 51.92%
New Zealand First 17.31%
Other 1.92%
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November 6, 2008 8:50am
Lindsay Addie

RB said:

“Its all about bi-partisanship, reaching out, blah blah blah”

Getting rid of this idiotic MMP groupthink PC voting system would be a step in the right direction.
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November 6, 2008 8:58am
Glutaemus Maximus

Moving on:

The TV Debate was even stevens as regards the leadership standings within that particular programme.

The mood was altered by the gracious bi-partisan speeches from the US.

I bet that the Labour Campaign team were cringing to see their two advert styles with negative campaigns so out of tune with the vibe within that debate, the mood from America, and Kiwis turning their backs on bagging.

There is no going back now. The die is cast.

I still would be fascinated to see if any leftie fancies that wager if they are so confident right now.

For the record, I truly believe that National will be able to govern alone, and Maori will come on board anyway.

NZ1 for oblivion. They will leech a lot of Labour votes on their way out.

Oh Happy Days!
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November 6, 2008 9:00am
Lindsay Addie

Just heard on RadioNZ news bulletin.

They had a debate with the minor party leaders this morning and lo and behold the Poodle didn’t show up.

🙂
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November 6, 2008 9:03am
peanut

Anyone pick up that Clark said she looks forward to working with Obama?

In her psychotic mind she thinks she has already won the election. Has the corrupt left rigged the election or has the meglamaniac Clark totally lost her marbles???
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November 6, 2008 9:04am
bobux

Mickeysavage was lamenting the lack of any recent poll results last night. No doubt he will be greatly cheered to have a Herald Digipoll out this morning – National on 49.6.

A lot of people on this thread seem to be counting their chickens a little early – I maintain it will be a close thing, and the centre-right needs every vote it can get.
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November 6, 2008 9:06am
Grant Michael McKenna

Helen Clark as UN rapporteur for Iraq will have to work with President Obama.
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November 6, 2008 9:07am
Redbaiter

“Getting rid of this idiotic MMP groupthink PC voting system would be a step in the right direction.”

The only real motivation there is for voting is to somehow stop those leftist fuckwits from taking over more of our lives. There’s too many of them in the Nats also of course, but at least the acceleration rate of the interfering legislating taxing bastards is slowed a little. Well, one would expect.
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November 6, 2008 9:08am
Inventory2

Has anyone else noted that Keizer is NOT a New Zealand citizen – perhaps the incoming government will have a look at his immigration status, especially as he seems to spend a lot of time out of the country!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/11/kees-keizer-public-servant.html
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November 6, 2008 9:11am
Lindsay Addie

Could John Key when he’s PM make Kees Keizer ‘Honorary Consul to Monaco’ because of his services to New Zealand in helping to fuckup Labour’s already failing campaign days out from an election?

Clearly a man of great distinction!

😆
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November 6, 2008 9:16am
pushmepullu

Greens/ Global Warmers get their arses kicked in California-

Don’t forget homosexual activists also got their arses kicked. Proposition 8 failed deservedly. The institution of marriage is safe… for now…
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November 6, 2008 9:24am
GN

Question:
Did Keizer break criminal law,
if so, can anyone then lay a complaint with the police?
If a complaint is laid will all remaining recordings then become potential evidence until prosecution is either confirmed or not; and thus anyone who releases the remaining contents to the public could be held in contempt of court.
Obviously I’m no lawyer, just wondering.
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November 6, 2008 9:27am
david

I have been puzzling for the past few weeks over what is different about this year’s LP campaign.

It finally struk me last night that it was the almost complete absence of “other” faces from labour in the news, in ads, at events, in fact almost everywhere except in their own electorates. Where have Cullen, Mallard, Hodgson, etc etc (all Ministers of the Crown no less) been hiding, or more to the point, why?

One scenario is that Labour have known that they will be tossed out on their sorry asses (or maybe they haven’t the wherewithal to cope with the bloody mess they have created) and there is a strategy in place for Helen to take the public backlash leaving the core of the party to be the front bench in opposition with (possibly) less crap clinging to them than might otherwise be the case.

This theory was advanced last night in the debate by Helen’s ineffective and uncharacteristically wimpish performance which stands in sharp contrast to the attack-dog approach that has been her hallmark. She knows she is dog-tucker and has already planned her departure. I reckon that the towel has already been thrown in in their minds and that they are just trying to minimise the long term damage. Of course a “statesman-like” exit to a high profile post of little importance would be icing on the cake burt even that cannot occur without support from the new Government hence the fawning “be-nice-to-everyone” new face of Helen Clark at the debate last night.
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November 6, 2008 9:31am
Marc

Has anyone in the media ever thought of finding out whether Helen Clark is actually ……………………… ?
A question has been asked over the last few days about why she is not publically displaying a ………………… ?
She has often referred to her …………………. ?
She deliberately changed her ………………. from …………. to this ………………?
Is she legally ……………………..?
Does she have a …………………… certificate to prove it?
Is it all part of a sham claiming she is ………………… or can she not be trusted ?

ITS ALL ABOUT TRUST BUT HAS SHE DUPED US ALL ????
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November 6, 2008 9:32am
Redbaiter

This dumb slimebag Keiser is of the type that has made a basket case of Holland, and unable to learn from his mistakes there, comes to this country with the same destructive political intent. Fuck off back to your European basket case slum Keiser. NZ Colonials don’t need cowards like you or your mentally deficient Marxist crap.
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November 6, 2008 9:34am
expat

Yawn, Keizer is a nobody trying to make a name for himself for his career in political ‘conflict resolution’ aka policy and communications wonk.

Dont give him the time of day.

BTW: Beards like that cover up protruding mandibles and acne.
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November 6, 2008 9:34am
Redbaiter

“It finally struk me last night that it was the almost complete absence of “other” faces from labour in the news”

Right, well spotted. We’re only seeing two faces, and they’re both Helen Klark’s.
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November 6, 2008 9:36am
peanut

Dictators allow only their faces to be shown.

Saddam didn’t have pictures of his sidekicks and nor did Hltler!!
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November 6, 2008 9:40am
dad4justice

Heather Simpson is a backdoor bunker lurker.
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November 6, 2008 9:43am
getstaffed

Of course a “statesman-like” exit to a high profile post

Bugger Key being ‘nice’ to Clark after she is deposed.

I want a royal commission into corruption with a ToR that allows politicians, incl Clark, to called to give evidence. If that finds her and/or others blameless then fine. If not then prison.
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November 6, 2008 9:44am
expat

Hulun went bunker a while ago.
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November 6, 2008 9:46am
Paw Prick

I see the Keizer geezer reckons he has an MA in “conflict resolution”. What a tool.
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November 6, 2008 9:47am
s.russell

Bobux,

The Herald Poll was not on party support but on the specific question of economic management:
“When asked whether a Labour-led government or a National-led one would better handle the New Zealand economy as the world faces a downturn, 49.6 per cent of respondents gave John Key’s party their support.”

I suspect that they are holding the party support figures to make a bigger splash tomorrow (today was washed out by Obama of course), but the figure above suggests a positive result for National. TVNZ Colmar Brunton poll tonight too, I understand.
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November 6, 2008 9:51am
radar

“This dumb slimebag Keiser is of the type that has made a basket case of Holland, and unable to learn from his mistakes there, comes to this country with the same destructive political intent. Fuck off back to your European basket case slum Keiser.”

As usual, this is total bullshit.

The Netherlands is the 16th largest economy in the world
10th in GDP per capita
Unemployment is 4%
Unicef rank them 1st in child wellbeing
Is the 13th most free market capitalist economy

Redbaiter = full of shit. Still.
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November 6, 2008 10:20am
flyingkiwi

Anyone see the Youtube video for the TVNZ debate that was uploaded by Clinton ‘weasel’ Smith?
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=eeyphuq6zoA
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November 6, 2008 10:28am
mike12

“he has an MA in conflict resolution”.

Just like his countrymen who so bravely protected those poor bastards in Srebrenica.

lowlife scum
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November 6, 2008 10:40am
Redbaiter

“As usual, this is total bullshit.”

Track some of these people down and ask them you wittering little dumbarse. As usual, its you with your gormless mainstream shit that doesn’t have a clue.

http://www.google.com.au/search?num=100&hl=en&ned=au&q=people+leaving+holland&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web
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November 6, 2008 10:40am
radar

People are leaving this country in droves too, redbaiter, does that mean New Zealand is a “cesspool”? And if we are, why are you still here? I can’t believe someone of your intelligence and way with words hasn’t been lured away by some large mutil-national.

By the way, have you ever actually been to Europe?

I got the stats from wikipedia. Why would you call that a part of the “mainstream shit”?
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November 6, 2008 11:34am
Political Busker

Well done David Farrah for the general view that your blog is new Zaeland’s most well read! That is quite some achievement and you deserve credit.

I apologise that I cannot include the letter from Tariana Turia in this post. Additionally, for those who have previously stated that my writing is difficult to read I acknowledge that there are three mistakes in my quickly written letter. The most notable and difficult to factor is relative to the complaint of indigenous people. I may, or may not have left a word out.

Benjamin Easton
(of a) father’s coalition.

November 6 2008

Tena koe Tariana,

Thank you for your reply of 4 November, to my 30 July email about Vince Siemer.

I have enclosed a copy of your letter. As I hope you may be aware I wrote to you again recently, disappointed that the inquiry about my postal address had not been followed up sooner with your letter.

That dissatisfaction was compounded to my comprehension that the Maori Party are not effecting policy or change that could be consistent with my representation, excluding the value of my vote. Individually as aside from politically I find this disappointing. For many years I have nurtured and encouraged empathy with the Treaty partner demanding of my own behaviour an acceptance of responsibility for past wrongs done by a people to whom I am naturally and by honour bound.

This direct affection and responsibility has established for me a culture others label a being a “Kiwi.” In my view this word to describe a nation is to override cultural differences without ignoring that they exist or that they must be respected. My complaint about the Maori Party as I described in my recently posted letter is that this culture of affection does not appear to be reciprocated by the Maori Party where it is Treaty bound. I wish to use your reply better to describe what I mean.

• I believe your letter misses the mark of what I wish to describe when I advocate for Vince Siemer. I am not talking about the substantive matter of his relationship and business troubles with Mr Stiassny.

• I have not ventured into those presented facts, evidence, relative judgements or other information. Such information is consistent with the Court proceedings around that substantive matter.

• Where I align myself to Mr Siemer is where he has presented information to those with a responsibility to govern our nation and the complaints that he makes about how he is treated and why that could be so is directly ignored.

• This ignorance is intolerable as I imply it is corrupt.

• Your letter has in no way dealt with the issue that I present of judicial corruption and the responsibility of parliamentarians to prosecute such allegations with the appropriate investigation.

• This makes your representation of the ordinary citizen politically bound, independent of the public will and disrespectful of the laws and order of Her Majesty the Queen.

My comments are deservedly harsh. I spoke with Hone Harawira on the lawn of parliament in 2006 showing him a Court of Appeal judgment and stating to him why it was an outright lie. We have corresponded since that time. I have every intention to progress that matter with Hone, yet the facts remain.

The Maori Party, more directly than other parties, have been invited to observe the truth and challenge the facts. Yet your letter misses out the information relative to challenging significant aspects of damage done by a Treaty partner under “your” watch that directly disaffects “your” people.
If I cannot get assistance from the people with whom I am supposed to be in partnership, in challenging what I prove to be a corruption about which tangata whenua continually and therefore complain, what hope is there for our nation?

• Vince Siemer should not be under any threat of imprisonment until the allegations of judicial corruption have been fully aired and investigated.

However, obviously this is not going to occur and the Maori Party have elected to wear the same sovereignty blinded eye rather than challenging an outright injustice and abuse of the public interest.

This matter draws the reader’s attention to why I should be important. If any have bothered to follow my writing and consider the comments I make and facts I present, they will fully know why the information that I bring needs to be considered.

The Maori Party have a particular interest in what I discuss. I state, where I am being ignored that I hold the primary information that needs to be considered before any debate occurs relative to New Zealand’s constitution. This debate, once complete, and should my argument be held, indicates that the nation is ready to reconstitute. To leave me in ignorance like I am a madman spouting meaningless allegation loudly enough to warrant a letter 4 days prior to an election is madness in itself.

I appreciate that these comments are likely to remain alien to you and the Maori Party. As Dr Pita Sharples said on Morning Report this morning if a strategy has been employed then the Party owes it to their people to employ that strategy. Yet if you follow that line then I believe you are making a serious mistake as well as committing me to perpetuity of alienation: And I do not believe for any part of any second that such an action has anything at all to do with Wairua Maori.

The argument I hold is that if you embed the Maori seats you confine your people to a sovereign system that cannot work for the Maori people unless they are to be bound in perpetuity to capitalism. This appears to be your will. The alternative is still to be discovered and then explored. I would title it tribal democracy for a lack of different words.

However, and again I thank you for your letter where you have given me the opportunity to write to the elections prior to Saturday. This has been difficult because I am working in advocacy for a 78 year old socialist who, because he has no whanau has been outright abandoned by the state, dumped literally on a section of concrete and left to fend for himself. He is presently in hospital battling with an infection that could very easily kill him.

In my last letter as I have reiterated in this one, I cannot vote for the Maori Party because you will not, and now it would seem cannot serve my cause. My candidate vote will go to the Worker’s Party Wellington Central representative Don Franks. This is not because I am a socialist. I am not. It is because we need extraordinary change to break out of this political, judicial, executive and fourth estate cycle of corruption. My party vote will go either to Jim Anderton or Winston Peters.

Kind regards,
Kororia kite Atua,

Benjamin Easton
(of a) father’s coalition

The Political Busker
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November 6, 2008 12:14pm
Rex Widerstrom

An MA in “conflict resolution” and he wants a job in politics… yet politics exists only because of conflict – of ideologies, policies and ideas. And he first comes to notice in the political sphere for manufacturing conflict.

He’ll go far then. Not.
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November 6, 2008 12:50pm
Nefarious

I just watched Whaleoil’s video “Helen’s Downfall”. Fucking priceless.
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November 6, 2008 2:33pm
wreck1080

Why are Labour supporters pushing the line that National are going to dump kiwirail and kiwisaver?

This is DESPITE John Key announcing national’s commitment to both.

But, from todays news…

The Labour supporters crowded in around Mr Key as he shook hands with his followers, continuing to chant “vote Labour, vote Labour”.
They wielded placards saying “Save Kiwirail” and “Save Kiwisaver”.

These halfwitted morons need to be given a good thrashing.
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November 6, 2008 2:47pm
coventry

Did I just hear right, Winston has stopped campaigning in Tauranga ? He’s now trying to get Ron Mark erected instead.
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November 6, 2008 3:04pm
philu

state television coverage of the american election results..both sucked and blew..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/how-the-state-broadcaster-failed-miserably-in-their-coverage-of-the-event-of-the-century/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 6, 2008 4:16pm
senzafine

The Labour Luddites are in full force on the “You’re an Idiot” Thread on stuff.

9th floor must be a bit busy about now.
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November 6, 2008 4:20pm
getstaffed

[Winston’s] now trying to get Ron Mark erected instead.

Tommy won’t be happy 🙂
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November 6, 2008 4:23pm
grumpyoldhori

Fox putting the boot into Palin.
Hell, she was that bloody arrogant that she refused coaching for the Couric interview.
And some Republicans want her for 2012, the ones who believe that the Republican party has to go further right and have only those who live by the so called book.
If the Democrats were smart they would help her become a Manchurian candidate.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/5/19367/8503/894/655089
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November 6, 2008 4:30pm
Paw Prick

Have just seen the full page Labour election ad in the ChCh Press. If Hollywood ever decides to do a remake of Star Wars, they need look no further for someone to cast as the Evil Emperor. What was HC thinking?
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November 6, 2008 4:36pm
big bruv

Are there any final polls out tonight?
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November 6, 2008 4:41pm
Lindsay Addie

big bruv,

A Colmar Brunton on One News.
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November 6, 2008 4:43pm
llew

Fox putting the boot into Palin.

Damned lefty, dirtty smearing puppets.
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November 6, 2008 4:45pm
big bruv

Cheers Lindsay
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November 6, 2008 4:47pm
Lindsay Addie

Just heard on RadioNZ about the rally in Cathedral Square where Key told the Labour rowdies that the only way the left could get anyone to listen to them was to show up at a National Party rally!

😆
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November 6, 2008 5:06pm
getstaffed

Now I’ve heard everything: Winston is blaming the weather for his demise 🙂
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November 6, 2008 6:29pm
Duxton

TV1 and TV3 polls both have National all but there………
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November 6, 2008 6:58pm
workingman

I am out of NZ on election night. What is the best website to go to for election result updates?
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November 6, 2008 7:46pm
wikiriwhis business

“Those winners Bush and McCain showed how to do it.”

Redbaiter,,

Are you sayin there will come a time when we will miss the Bush administration??
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November 6, 2008 8:34pm

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