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November 4, 2008 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 4 November 2008

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General Debate

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Ryan Sproull

Apart from actual collusion where it might exist, there is a mindset and a narrative and an agenda on the part of the so called mainstream media that just happens to massively benefit the Democratic Candidate every time, and happens to massively benefit the most radically Left candidate that the Dems put up in that the information that might scare the voters is whitewashed, while the Republicans are subjected to teams of forensic investigators all over their back trails. If you don’t see it this way, you are just not on the same planet as me.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren’t cheering the stream of infantile abuse levelled at me and reply to your post with the assumption that you have even the tiniest amount of respect for me and this conversation.

What you’re saying about the media having a mindset against the views and politics you personally espouse are also said by the following people:

Winston Peters
Labour supporters
National supporters
Republicans
Democrats
Noam Chomsky
Ron Paul
Liberal Democrats in the UK
Christians
Muslims
Atheists
Vegetarians
Me

Everyone says this. Everyone thinks the media is tipped against their own favour. Your claim that the media is pro-Obama is echoed by people claiming it’s anti-Obama. That’s why it doesn’t seem to me to be this patently obvious fact of the world that “the media” is out to see an Obama presidency.

My original point to you was that – looking at the way all of the news networks in the US echoed Bush’s cousin’s declaration via Fox that Bush had won – it was entirely possible for an election to be stolen via influence of the media. I thought you were talking about this kind of conspiracy that the Democrats could cook up. If you’re simply saying that the media as a whole, without any actual collusion with the Democrat party, has its own agenda to see the Democrats win, then it’s not something I can really comment on. Everyone claims the media is biased against them, often just as passionately as you do and often in the opposite direction to your claims. I’d have to see evidence beyond “isn’t it obvious?!” to pick yours out of the many as the correct evaluation of media bias.
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November 4, 2008 7:02pm
Redbaiter

Thanks for the cheers Phil, and same to you mate. You do brilliant. Dunno where you get the patience tho to try explanations to such simple minded uninformed political troglodytes. I can’t do it. Its like dealing with those little self centered spoiled brat kids who ask “why?” to very question just so they can continue to get the attention that is their main motivation.

Here’s a youtube for you:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CILIBlQ2D0Q
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November 4, 2008 7:06pm
Lee

There certainly is reasonable evidence that most of the US MSM tilts towards the Democrats and towards social liberalism in general. That said, I do not think there is an active conspiracy there with regards to Obama, and if he wins I do not think he will have stolen the election at all. I think the bias has less to do with an active conspiracy, and more to do with the dominant urban/liberal culture within the media. Same for much of the rest of the Anglosphere.

On the theme of media bias in general, I have seen first hand the way the Christchurch Press deals with evangelical/pentecostal Christians, and it is without doubt very biased and at times very ugly. This bias manifests in the way articles are framed and headlined.
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November 4, 2008 7:18pm
Ratbiter

“the dominant urban/liberal culture”

So, Lee, in effect you’re saying that if a majority of people feel liberal and vote liberal, EVEN THAT is somehow a BIAS to the left?
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November 4, 2008 7:29pm
lloydois

The only one in on the act Phil is you mate. Sorry to tell you this but you’re a fucking fruitcake if you really believe any of this crap you’re dropping. Tomorrow is gonna be some reality check. Hint. The election wasn’t stolen, this is how most Americans think.

Despite what Redbaiter and kiwi in america might be leading you to believe, Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin aren’t taken seriously by anyone but deluded nutjobs with serious brain dysfunction.

Party on dude, beware of the men in the white coats.
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November 4, 2008 8:31pm
redeye

Precisely Ratbiter. I was going to ask, is there a definitive centre? Does it fall exactly in the middle of the most extreme right and left doctrines, or is it a moveable target governed by the attitudes of the people at the time?
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November 4, 2008 8:32pm
Redbaiter

“Despite what Redbaiter and kiwi in america might be leading you to believe, Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin aren’t taken seriously by anyone but deluded nutjobs with serious brain dysfunction.”

More lies. Palin has the highest approval rating of any US governor. You commies just cannot help yourself from lying. Its your nature. You do it all day on here, from morning to night it is lie after lie after lie after lie, in such numbers it is impossible to refute them all. ..and then you wonder why you suffer our contempt.
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November 4, 2008 8:50pm
Lee

“So, Lee, in effect you’re saying that if a majority of people feel liberal and vote liberal, EVEN THAT is somehow a BIAS to the left?”

What I said is that a majority of the mainstream media is biased towards a fairly extreme liberalism (liberalism comes in both right wing and left wing versions), and this extreme liberalism is out of step with the majority of people in most Anglosphere countries, especially the USA. It creates a dangerous disconnect between the news media and the population, which is one of the reasons the MSM is held in such contempt, again especially in the USA.
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November 4, 2008 9:01pm
lloydois

C’mon Redbaiter. You want us to respect your intelligence. After tomorrow she is yesterday, history, an Alaskan Governor, nothing more.

If she’s the future of the Republican Party it’s fucked beyond redemption. May as well make Joe the Plumber Secretary of State.
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November 4, 2008 9:07pm
Lee

“Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin aren’t taken seriously by anyone but deluded nutjobs with serious brain dysfunction.”

Sorry, but thats provably false. Millions of Americans, especially grassroots evangelical conservatives, love her. I think shes a potential future President. Now you are free to disagree with us, but trying to dismiss such support as a fringe group of “nutjobs” simply proves that your not here to have a serious and honest debate, but merely to spew your dishonest propaganda.

As to “most Americans”, every poll I have seen shows a continuing 50/50 split between on the conservative/liberal divide.

Obama MAY win the election, but this does not prove that most Americans are liberals.
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November 4, 2008 9:09pm
Lee

“You want us to respect your intelligence.”

Speaking for myself, your “respect” means less to me than dog shit on the bottom of my boot.
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November 4, 2008 9:12pm
Redbaiter

“You want us to respect your intelligence.”

I want nothing from you other than that you take your loathsome ideology and your ceaseless lies and cowardly smears and your shameless psychotic lack of self respect and fuck off. Leave people alone scum. Get it now?
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November 4, 2008 9:15pm
lloydois

Lick it and enjoy the taste Lee.
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November 4, 2008 9:16pm
Southern Raider

Drove down to Rotorua today from Auckland via Matamata. Only saw about two Labour signs the whole way. The rest of the countryside was beautifully littered with National and ACT billboards.

Also important to note in Rotorua the McLay/National signs probably outnumbered the Labour ones about 6 or 7 to one. If you didn’t know any better you would think that Rotorua was a safe blue seat.
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November 4, 2008 9:21pm
Southern Raider

Also just heard that a senior Labour minister is close to losing their electrorate seat in what you would think would be a redder than red location.

If this is correct the marginal seats must be about to experience a massive swing.
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November 4, 2008 9:22pm
lloydois

Here you go phil……..it is possible to cut and paste something half intelligent that other people want to read.

‘Mr Obama has never run anything, it is said. Not true. He has run arguably the longest, the biggest and the best organised campaign ever. Its discipline has been astonishing – in contrast to the campaign of Mrs Clinton that was once supposed to sweep all before it. And he has taken on the Democratic Party establishment as represented by the Clintons. In two years, Mr Obama has not made a major blunder. Yes, he has had a dedicated, top-notch team around him. But that too augurs well. Clearly, Mr Obama knows how to put the right people in the right jobs, a vital part of being president. And then, of course, he has style. Not since JFK will America have had as charismatic and inspirational a leader. Charisma and soaring oratory do not guarantee good government. But America is demoralised, exhausted and broke. It needs to turn the page on its recent past. And for that, it needs words, as well as deeds, to inspire it.

The election of Barack Obama will be a gamble. He may prove a disappointment like Jimmy Carter – another leader who emerged from nowhere, full of good intentions but overwhelmed by the job. There is no knowing. Nothing quite prepares a man for the presidency.

What is certain is that Mr Obama provides excitement, a desperately needed jolt of political electricity. If he is elected, America will instantly be seen in a new light around the world – not just because the unloved George Bush is gone, but because the country has found it within itself to turn to someone truly new, whose astonishing ascent could have happened nowhere else on earth.

Only in America.’
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November 4, 2008 9:38pm

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