General Debate 27 November 2008

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coventry

So now that International Diary prices have crashed, will we see the price of the 1KG block of NZ Cheddar dropping any time soon ?
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November 27, 2008 8:20am
KiwiGreg

I get mine free from our accountants. Not sure about connection with cheese.

/smartarse off
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November 27, 2008 8:34am
jocko

I posted 15 minutes ago in “A fun evening”
It should have been here…..for general debate!?

A propos nothing – fed a few blogs into genderanalyser.com (found at crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com)
…..and came up with
‘Wellington Hive is written by a man (82%)’
‘Whaleoil we think is written by a man (76%)’
‘Cactus Kate (they) guess is written by a woman (59%), however it’s quite gender neutral’ Ho Ho!!
BUT ‘Kiwiblog (has) strong indicators (94%) written by a woman’

I think we should be told. Are those ‘nights on the turps’ taking their toll….?
Another dimension to that pre-election road trip?

PS At random, checked out the neutered tom-cat “Pompuss” site to find ‘we think is written by a woman (68%)’
So dont take it personally [smiley-face]
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November 27, 2008 8:49am
coventry

Thanks Greg – Dairy !
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November 27, 2008 8:51am
peterwn

In the last day or two I have been having a few philosophical thoughts about the National Party. Its distractors try and characterise it as a ‘Business Round Table’ party, a party for ‘rich pricks’, a ‘farmers’ party, etc, etc. I do admit it has had a bumpy ride in the Muldoon era and the Bolger era, in the latter era especially I thought that Bill Birch (who ushered in an excessively punitive tax penalty regime), Maurice Williamson (starting to advocate what I perceived as a ‘land grab’ by grabbing the roads outside peopls houses and screwing a profit out of them) etc. This in my opinion allowed a two and then a three term Labour government whereas National has generally been able to dispatch Labour government after one term. It is interesting that internal National Party publications from the 1960’s indicated that teachers and public servants were potential National Party supporters although these groups now almost seem to be ‘lost’ to National.

Years ago I was in Vienna during an election campaign and saw hoardings for ‘Volkspartei.’ Now, as far as I can see, many ‘peoples parties’ are almost anything but (often being representative of those with chips on their shoulders), but then I have always seen National as a real peoples party, free of the various vested interests that have dogged Labour. It seems to me that John Key had moved the Party right back into real ‘peoples party’ territory. The challenge for the Party is to show that it is not ‘captured’ by vested interests. The challenge for everyone who has disliked Labour over the last several years is to take an active interest in the National Party and help keep it on track as a real peoples party. The doors of the Party are open to all, and for those who choose to go in here are real opportunities to help shape the future of the Party.
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November 27, 2008 9:08am
goodgod

…In a statement issued to Radio New Zealand staff, management said McCarthy “agreed that failure to attribute the sources was a breach of Radio New Zealand editorial policies”, the Dominion Post reported.

…

“There was never any intention to claim the work of others as my own …I should have taken more care, I made a mistake and for that I apologise,” McCarthy said.
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November 27, 2008 9:08am
kiwipolemicist

Did anyone spot the stupid news report that blames a car crash on a duck?

Ducks can and do cause plane crashes, but I’ve never heard of one that can cause car crashes.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/yet-more-idiotic-reporting-from-the-new-zealand-media/
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November 27, 2008 9:11am
goodgod

“Did anyone spot the stupid news report that blames a car crash on a duck?”

I call on the coroner to lobby for more road signage at Duck level to halt this, until now, unknown threat to road safety!
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November 27, 2008 9:17am
gingercrush

If Obama was meant to represent change why is his administration mostly a bunch of hacks from the Clinton administration. How long till that hope Obama was meant to bring turns into disillusionment?
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November 27, 2008 9:20am
david

Traffic lights an known duck crossing points?

DTC “Duck traffic control” would have a demarcation conflict with ATC though.
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November 27, 2008 9:23am
Inventory2

Sounds like a very nasty situation in Mumbai

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/11/bad-things-happening-in-mumbai.html
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November 27, 2008 9:24am
Freckles

OK this is a complete change of topic but…
Has anyone tried to get into a GP lately, after a long period of good health?
My partner recently got what turned out to be a severe bout of tonsilitus and tried to get an appointment with a local GP. Knowing that GPs throughout the Wellington region are not taking any more ‘new’ patients he still thought he’d be OK cos he’d seen that GP four years ago when he was last ill, and the rest of the family are with that GP. Well, somehow, they had no record of him. That started a long hunt around Wellington region through all the various areas we’d lived and worked – including a practice that had packed up with the doctor moving off elsewhere etc etc. Finally we tracked his records down from 9 years ago. He had to resort to the after hours centre however, with this illness. Luckily the family doctor, after much begging, has agreed to take him on in future (obviously a low-risk patient, not likely to need care very often).
Why is the severe lack of GPs not an issue? From time to time we read about clogged A&E areas at hospital and the numbers of people presenting at A&E with piffling complaints… but nothing seems to have been done. The health sector thus far has been like a huge balloon – narrow down a problem in one area and it bulges out somewhere else. I think if we are to be serious about waiting lists and A&E queues and bed shortages etc in hospitals then there needs to be something done about having a better ‘first-port-of-call’ – ie, GPs. If people are confident they can get in to the doctor when their problem is still minor then it would ease things off further down the track. Something for the new government to turn attention to, and make a REAL difference on?
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November 27, 2008 9:24am
Ryan Sproull

Freckles,

I had exactly that happen to me recently. Hadn’t been to the doctor in four years, my file had been archived or something, and I had to pay some absurd price because you don’t get health subsidies unless you’re on the current file.

I suppose I should see it less as punishment for being healthy and more as an incentive to get check-ups now and then.
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November 27, 2008 9:33am
cha

A Russian analyst predicts the decline and breakup of the U.S and the Free Republic response.
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November 27, 2008 9:35am
Owen McShane

The Herald celebrates fewer houses being built in this article.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10545018

“The {Te Arai] trust was granted an adjournment to a district-plan change hearing in July after 1700 submissions were received, almost all opposing the second round of proposals, which cut the number of homes from 1400 to 850.

Now it has cut the number of houses from 850 to 180, hoping it will be a case of third time lucky.
The trust, a joint venture between local iwi Te Uri o Hau and Queenstown developer New Zealand Land Trust, proposes creating a coastal park and building a resort called Te Arai Park in the centre of Mangawhai North Forest.”

One way to make housing available is to build more of them.

We are short of houses but over half of NZ is now in DoC estate or other parks. Most countries aspire to 10%.

The project would have created about 7,000 trademens’ jobs and another 50,000 downstream jobs.

You would not know we are trying to build and trade our way out of recession.
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November 27, 2008 9:37am
Zapper

Another change in topic…does anyone here know much about employment law?

I live in Wellington and applied for a job in ChCh, went down for 3 interviews and went through a pretty intense process to get the job. Last monday I was offered the job which was extremely pleasing given it was exactly what I wanted and good money. I began planning my move to ChCh as it was an urgent start and then last friday I got a call telling me they had to withdraw the offer as senior management had put a hiring freeze on company-wide. Is it legal to break a verbal contract like that? I’m not worried about the costs I incurred as it was my decision to look for work in ChCh. However now I am committed to my move and there doesn’t seem to be too many similar positions available down there.

Is there a law that says when an offer is made and accepted, it is binding? And if not, why not?
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November 27, 2008 10:06am
Lee

“If Obama was meant to represent change why is his administration mostly a bunch of hacks from the Clinton administration.”

Be thankful. I am.

He is also taking national security advice from Republican Brent Scowcroft, and it now looks a dead cert that he will keep Bush appointee Robert Gates on as SecDef.

The left, if the lefty blogs (the Nation, FireDogLake, Daily Kos) are anything to go by, are fuming and talking of being betrayed. But some are also pointing out that Obama never claimed to be a lefty and always said he would govern from the centre and take a bi-partisan approach to issues. His repeated comment that he was not concerned with ideology but with “what works” was a clue.

More and more I am feeling very comfortable about Obama’s presidency.
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November 27, 2008 10:12am
gingercrush

Oh I loved Clinton’s administration and you’re right. Much better that he goes down this route than what was portrayed. But still, his message was change. And his message wasn’t a change from Bush back to Clinton. It was a change never seen in the United States and I don’t see him delivering it. The left have quickly formed an opinion that National is somehow going into a far-right regime while not having anything to say about Obama. That was really my point in the first place.
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November 27, 2008 10:24am
Frank

Of vital importance is the following:

The British government this week unveiled a stimulus plan that will boost that country’s budget deficit to $181 billion (118 billion pounds), the equivalent of 8.0% of gross domestic product (GDP). U.S. President-elect Barack Obama’s stimulus plan, when combined with the recession, may raise the U.S. federal deficit to $1.2 trillion, or 8.0% of U.S. GDP.

This raises the question: If it’s so easy to stimulate an economy, why don’t we do it all the time? Don’t such large deficits cause problems?

There is no question economic stimulus is popular. Economist John Maynard Keynes originally proposed it to counter the Great Depression, and it is now used as a panacea every time the economy suffers even the mildest hiccup. The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 – a $150 billion stimulus the Bush Administration unveiled last spring – is an example of this: It was proposed before the economy had suffered a negative quarter and it provided a modest short-term blip to consumer spending, making the second quarter of 2008 the best of the last four.

It also increased the federal deficit by an estimated $152 billion. And it did nothing, whatsoever, to solve the problems of housing finance failures, bank illiquidity and deep recession
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November 27, 2008 10:35am
Julian

I am a New Zealander based in London and one thing that infuriates me while ‘looking back at New Zealand’, is the tendency for the NZ media to spin the most mundane reference to New Zealand in the media here into an international crisis.

For example, the teacher who was recently struck off in the UK, who happened to have been trained in New Zealand. It barely registered at all here, and indeed the first I (and many others) heard of it was on Stuff, who claimed (and I cringe as I write this) that it caused a ‘media storm’ here. No it didn’t, at all.
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November 27, 2008 10:39am
bearhunter

Julian, a three-par story in Scotland’s Daily Record now counts as a media storm down here. In fact ANY reference to NZ in an overseas paper (even if it’s the East Brentford Recorder and Advertiser) is either a media storm (for bad news stories) or glowing media coverage if it’s a good news story.
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November 27, 2008 10:53am
goodgod

Yes, a verbal offer and acceptance of employment is binding – even without ink on contract. You will have to go to court to have it upheld though.
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November 27, 2008 11:19am
David Baigent

Zapper at 10:06, If you are single and committed to a move to Christchurch I suggest you make an offer to do the work envisaged on a contract basis.
Different accounting decision for the “senior management”.
If you can get agreement with a decent period of time, go for it BUT keep a detailed diary of work history in such a form that you are able to demonstrate the “financial gains” that the Company had from your work.

Even if you fail you will have learnt and you will do a focused job where-ever you are in the future.
If you are even halfway useful you will learn how to be seen as a “fix it” of “get it done” person and could end up in a management position.

If the Company is in any way “State Owned” or a “Local Body Organisation” just keep walking and don’t look back.
Good luck.
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November 27, 2008 11:32am
PhilBest

gingercrush (28) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 27th, 2008 at 10:24 am

“Oh I loved Clinton’s administration and you’re right. Much better that he goes down this route than what was portrayed. But still, his message was change. And his message wasn’t a change from Bush back to Clinton. It was a change never seen in the United States and I don’t see him delivering it…….”

Gingercrush, Obama is not going to be dealing with a Republican Congress and Senate. You wait and see what Obama’s “Clinton” Team is capable of in combination with the Nancy Pelosi Congress and the Harry Reid Senate.

“Change” to soft Euro-style Nanny Statism is just the least of it. One thing that did happen under Clinton, was that counterespionage bombed and the Chinese and other powers got their hands on lots of military technology; not to mention the almost total subversion of “Middle East” expertise at the hands of cultural sensitivity wallahs.

It is in this area that I fear the worst from the Obama Presidency. I wouldn’t put it past him to both give away what military technological advantage the US possesses and lower the whole “nuclear detente” barrier, all very nice and noble ideologically, but with catastrophic consequences.
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November 27, 2008 11:33am
LC

Can we have our Prime Minister back…please..
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November 27, 2008 11:36am
PhilBest

Owen McShane at 9.37, I find it sickening, given the role that housing price bubbles play in the latest and most dangerous form of financial meltdown, that there is just so much ignorance and apathy and plain wrong-headedness abroad on the issue of housing development.
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November 27, 2008 11:37am
PhilBest

Frank at 10.35, that is another subject on which there is just so much ignorance and wrong-headedness.

Read THIS, everybody; “Why Government Spending Does NOT Stimulate Economic Growth”, by Brian Riedl

http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg2208.cfm
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November 27, 2008 11:42am
PhilBest

Frank at 10.35, you are right, that is another subject on which there is just so much ignorance and wrong-headedness.

Read THIS, everybody; “Why Government Spending Does NOT Stimulate Economic Growth”, by Brian Riedl

I have posted a link and it has gone to moderation.

Here are the introductory paragraphs.

“In a throwback to the 1930s and 1970s, Democratic lawmakers are betting that America’s economic ills can be cured by an extraordinary expansion of government. This tired approach has already failed repeatedly in the past year, in which Congress and the President:

1. Increased total federal spending by 11 percent to nearly $3 trillion;

2. Enacted $333 billion in “emergency” spending;

3. Enacted $105 billion in tax rebates; and

4. Pushed the budget deficit to $455 billion in the name of “stimulus.”

Every one of these policies failed to increase economic growth. Now, in addition to passing a $700 billion financial sector rescue package, lawmakers have decided to double down on these failed spending policies by proposing a $300 billion economic stimulus bill. Even though the last $455 billion in Keynesian deficit spending failed to help the economy, lawmakers seem to have convinced themselves that the next $300 billion will succeed.

This is not the first time government expansions have failed to produce economic growth. Massive spending hikes in the 1930s, 1960s, and 1970s all failed to increase economic growth rates. Yet in the 1980s and 1990s—when the federal government shrank by one-fifth as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP)—the U.S. economy enjoyed its greatest expansion to date.

Cross-national comparisons yield the same result. The U.S. government spends significantly less than the 15 pre-2004 European Union nations, and yet enjoys 40 percent larger per capita GDP, 50 percent faster economic growth rates, and a substantially lower unemployment rate.[1]

When conventional economic wisdom repeatedly fails, it becomes necessary to revisit that conventional wisdom. Government spending fails to stimulate economic growth because every dollar Congress “injects” into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. Thus, government spending “stimulus” merely redistributes existing income, doing nothing to increase productivity or employment, and therefore nothing to create additional income. Even worse, many federal expenditures weaken the private sector by directing resources toward less productive uses and thus impede income growth.

The Myth of Spending as “Stimulus”

Spending-stimulus advocates claim that government can “inject” new money into the economy, increasing demand and therefore production. This raises the obvious question: Where does the government acquire the money it pumps into the economy? Congress does not have a vault of money waiting to be distributed: Therefore, every dollar Congress “injects” into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new spending power is created. It is merely redistributed from one group of people to another.[2]

Spending-stimulus advocates typically respond that redistributing money from “savers” to “spenders” will lead to additional spending. That assumes that savers store their savings in their mattresses or elsewhere outside the economy. In reality, nearly all Americans either invest their savings by purchasing financial assets such as stocks and bonds (which finances business investment), or by purchasing non-financial assets such as real estate and collectibles, or they deposit it in banks (which quickly lend it to others to spend). The money is used regardless of whether people spend or save.

Government cannot create new purchasing power out of thin air. If Congress funds new spending with taxes, it is simply redistributing existing income. If Congress instead borrows the money from domestic investors, those investors will have that much less to invest or to spend in the private economy. If Congress borrows the money from foreigners, the balance of payments will adjust by equally reducing net exports, leaving GDP unchanged. Every dollar Congress spends must first come from somewhere else…..”

The whole thing is 8 pages but well worth a read if you want to pretend to be well-informed on this issue.
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November 27, 2008 11:45am
Owen McShane

Zapper
Groucho Marx once said that a verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

He was wrong – except in contracts relating to land which must be in writing.

However, for any contract to be complete there must be THREE elements – offer, acceptance and consideration.
From the information you provide you may have difficulty in establishing consideration.
But employment law may have some special exemption.
You need to check.
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November 27, 2008 12:19pm
goodgod

PhilBest, I can grasp Reidl’s statements that tax cuts stimulate productivity, not the economy, but am lost on his statements that:

“Similar to government spending, the money for tax cuts does not fall from the sky. It comes out of investment and net exports if financed by budget deficits or government spending if offset by spending cuts.”

He’s supporting his apparent (to my eye) pedantic contradiction with a concept he doesn’t explore. Can you explain it in detail – or preferably plain english?
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November 27, 2008 12:21pm
PhilBest

I believe, Goodgod, that his point is that tax cuts must not result in the government merely “printing the money” to make up the shortfall. I think it was clumsy of Riedl to put “government spending if offset by spending cuts” in the same sentence as “it comes out of investment and net exports if financed by budget deficits”; as if both are bad things.

I think the point is that even tax cuts will not stimulate the economy unless accompanied by cuts in the size of government. I believe Rodney Hide and Roger Douglas have a good grasp of this. But sadly, I think John Key is falling into the same old trap of political wishful thinking that almost all politicians fall into on this; thinking that they, the government, can “fix” the problem by what they “do”, rather than by what they CEASE to do.

Good on you for reading the article to that depth. Interesting?
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November 27, 2008 12:31pm
PhilBest

How many people have discovered Peter Schiff on Youtube? Sorry I’ve posted this before, but for those who’ve missed it, this is really important.

Watch the video of TV clips of Schiff getting mocked 2 years ago for predicting the financial crisis EXACTLY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8r-nDBx5Jg&feature=related

And watch what he’s saying NOW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGHODRNJqRo

In all modesty, he is saying very similar things to what I have been saying here on Kiwiblog for the last few weeks. There is a “real economy” where work and production occurs and money is saved and capital accumulated, and at the end of the day everything depends on this.

You can distort things with overseas borrowing and increases in the money supply and fiddling with base interest rates and all the wrong fiscal policy incentives, pumping up the prices on paper, of shares, or housing, or whatever. But only for SO LONG.
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November 27, 2008 12:33pm
PhilBest

One important point made by “Von Mises Institute” economist Robert Murphy in the last few days, is that Politicians and Reserve Bank Economists are talking about their various schemes by which to address the financial crisis, as if they are considering options for future economic direction; and he says this makes as much sense as someone who has ingested poisoned food weighing up what their menus should be at the next few meals, when they are going to die if they do not induce vomiting, and quick.

Peter Schiff, in the Youtube videos above, is acheiving notoriety for his doom and gloom statements that are being proved correct. But there are others who have been proved right; the Ludwig Von Mises Institute has a web page with links to articles where their members warned of this; also looking good are members of the “Bank For International Settlements”, the “Institute Of Economic Affairs”; the “Shadow Monetary Policy Committee”; and the individuals Nouriel Roubini and Tim Congdon.

I think we are in a dangerous situation where Freidmanites and Keynesians occupy all the positions of influence and are doing all the arguing, and they are BOTH wrong. And by the way, none of this is “the free market” being allowed to function; and tragically, this is the only solution in spite of the narrative, wrong in the 1930’s and wrong again now, that what is needed, is political solutions to alleged “market failure”. But this time, the people who have been right so far are warning that the UNDERLYING problem continues to get bigger each time it is “papered over” with monetary or Keynesian “stimulus”.
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November 27, 2008 12:50pm
PhilBest

Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s “centrist” Chief of Staff:

“…….You never want a serious crisis to go to waste……..Things that we postponed for too long, that were long-term, are now immediate and must be dealt with. This crisis provides the opportunity for us to do things that you could not do before…..”

Quoted in “The Telegraph”; “Obama Emboldened By Economic Crisis”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/3498167/Barack-Obama-emboldened-by-economic-crisis.html

You were saying,………, Lee, Gingercrush……..?
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November 27, 2008 1:01pm
goodgod

“I think the point is that even tax cuts will not stimulate the economy unless accompanied by cuts in the size of government. I believe Rodney Hide and Roger Douglas have a good grasp of this. But sadly, I think John Key is falling into the same old trap of political wishful thinking that almost all politicians fall into on this; thinking that they, the government, can “fix” the problem by what they “do”, rather than by what they CEASE to do.”

Looks like John Banks has beat them all to it.

I Was trying to get a handle on why he effectively introduced a tax cut (rates increases held to inflation) and how he decided to cut some infrastructure spending, but not other obvious areas, and still plans to spend on Rugby World Cup and also cuts to bureaucracy- all while citing financial crisis motivators.

Trying to see the method and reasoning for the result is difficult if you don’t already know it, and since the only contact point the average joe has is a non specialist media, it becomes impossible, and creates a lot of misunderstanding in the community.

Well, we’re about to see a real life example of applied economics here in Auckland. It is interesting.
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November 27, 2008 1:14pm
Zapper

Thanks David and Owen. I am trying to work out my next move and will certainly keep in mind your advice. What exactly do you mean by consideration Owen?

I am single and committed to a move to ChCh. I don’t expect the freeze to be lifted until January so I have a few options. I can simply wait, and perhaps do some casual work. My agent offered me another contract doing some work I don’t particularly enjoy and for just over half the money. I don’t want to sound arrogant but I was really in disbelief that he even suggested that contract.

It’s amazing how quickly that life can be fantastic to having it crash down! God, that sounded a bit grim, a guy I used to work with just had his son diagnosed with leukemia so I might just need to harden up as things could be a lot worse. Helen Clark could still be in charge for starters…
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November 27, 2008 1:25pm
PhilBest

PhilBest (3682) 0 1 Says:
November 27th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

“One important point made by “Von Mises Institute” economist Robert Murphy in the last few days, is that Politicians and Reserve Bank Economists are talking about their various schemes by which to address the financial crisis, as if they are considering options for future economic direction; and he says this makes as much sense as someone who has ingested poisoned food weighing up what their menus should be at the next few meals, when they are going to die if they do not induce vomiting, and quick…….”

Let me expand further on this. THEY DID IT. The Politicians and Reserve Bank Economists swallowed the poisoned food. They cut interest rates and increased the money supply and strangled development and forced house prices up, while the bulk of investment was diverted by fiscal disincentives, away from the “real” economy where production and income occurs. Whatever happens now is their bloody fault. And all they are “doing” now, is postponing and making worse, the eventual day of reckoning.

You can mock and give me negative Karma points, but watch those videos of Peter Schiff, boys.

I have been saying for weeks, that NZ is worse than the USA on all these fundamentals:

House price to income ratio. We are around 50% worse than the USA average, and similar to the outlier US State of California.

Length of time to pay off an average mortgage on an average wage. Around 3 times as long as the USA.

Household debt. A few percentage points worse than the USA.

Private sector overseas debt per capita. A few percentage points worse than the USA.

Read Bernard Hickey on the “Interest” Blog, on the subject of NZ House Prices, failing NZ Finance Companies, (are there any left standing now?) and “Debt Implosion”. This is yet another cop-out failure to cover the story, on the part of our news media, who are dedicated to the “Blame America First” narrative.

The only way in which we are better off than the USA is that our government has a fiscally more sound position, and is only about to start going into deficit and a borrowing position. But watch how quickly that advantage could get squandered.

Memo to all politicians and Reserve Bank heads:

Take your “stimulus” package figure: 1.3 trillion for the USA, 150 billion for the UK, 7 billion for NZ. Then say, assuming that is the magic figure, how could we cut taxes – and government spending – by that amount, instead of borrowing it/printing it, and pissing it into the wind.

Nothing else is gonna work.
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November 27, 2008 1:42pm
Inventory2

Meanwhile, the Parole Board has given Bob Schollum an early Christmas present…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/11/schollums-ordeal-over.html
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November 27, 2008 1:54pm
Rex Widerstrom

kiwipolemicist asks:

Did anyone spot the stupid news report that blames a car crash on a duck?

It’s obvious why the duck crossed the road. He was tied to the chicken.

Thank you, I’m here all week.
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November 27, 2008 2:37pm
Owen McShane

Zapper,
Consideration is payment of some kind.
It normally means just that – a deposit paid or some other cost or benefit exchanged.
For example, if you meet someone in an office and they agree to give you a job and you accept and then the offerer agrees to take you out to lunch and pays the bill there has been offer, acceptance and consideration.
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November 27, 2008 3:00pm
goodgod

Memo to all politicians and Reserve Bank heads:

Take your “stimulus” package figure: 1.3 trillion for the USA, 150 billion for the UK, 7 billion for NZ. Then say, assuming that is the magic figure, how could we cut taxes – and government spending – by that amount, instead of borrowing it/printing it, and pissing it into the wind.

Nothing else is gonna work.

I’d like someone to leak the mini budget Labour had lined up. Since their argument against the right seems to be that the VRWC was just inventing an imaginary global problem to excuse the use of their favorite tactics, did Labour really believe it, or were they aware that they were screwed?

If the latter, National are playing russian roulette with two bullets instead of one. If National hesitate and use centre-left measures, they fail publicly and are blamed. If they don’t go centre-left, and things get hard owing to global factors, their right-wing methods get blamed because they aren’t the promises of the left that the general population are familiar with.

This is why I don’t think they have time to be big-noting in Peru. They have less than 3 years. There is no time for gentle change that will not result in long term economic problems. Only the blame will shift. Everyday they waste decreases their chances of being re-elected and increases the speed of NZ’s economic decline.
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November 27, 2008 3:22pm
goodgod

In fact they have about 18months: it will take time for any changes to become apparent at average voter level.
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November 27, 2008 3:28pm
Zapper

Oh right, well the closest we came to that would be them paying for the flight down for the last interview, although that isn’t part of the offer or acceptance.
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November 27, 2008 3:35pm
gd

Geeez When will people get it into their heads The Gumint dont make or produce or create wealth Nothing zilch zip.

They spend/waste mainly waste the fruits of the labour of the hard working workers

Everything they touch costs many more times than it should and takes many more times to achieve.

It is the workers who make produce create the wealth they should have the bulk of the fruits of their labour and have maximum choices as to how they will spend that reward.

What we need must have is minimal small less Gumint the less the better.

they get in the way of progress stop good ideas dead in their tracks and employ the drones the naysayers the negatives of society

We freedom fighters call on the new Gumint to set the workers free

Maxmimum tax rate 20% across all classes of tax.

GST 10% Rates to be held at inflation

Gumint spending max of 20% GDP

Get the Gumint outta our lives and get the country moving
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November 27, 2008 3:53pm
kaye

Peterwn at 9.08am, I agree with you. Growing up in a Labour-voting Christchurch family, the Nats were then, the party of farmers and big business, but now – especially under JK – it just seems different. I would once no more have voted National than fly to the moon, but I haven’t voted Labour for five elections now.

I know it’s early days, but I think JK seems much more like ‘one of the people’ than HC ever did. The part about Labour’s recent campaign I found the most galling was the ‘secret agenda’ accusation against him. If there was any secret agenda it was that feminist ‘manifesto’ that we have lived under for the last oppressive nine years.

You suggest helping to keep the Nats in ‘peoples party’ territory and that is where they should be. So, to answer your ‘call to arms’, only last week I joined the party.
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November 27, 2008 8:07pm
Steve

Seems General Debate ends at 3.53pm. Except for Kaye.
Bit of humor today from Rex.

It’s obvious why the duck crossed the road. He was tied to the chicken.
The duck was just following the PC instructions.
I can do whatever I want and if something happens it will never be my fault.
The Liarbore stooges still have jobs, just like the tractor seat belt expert coroner
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November 27, 2008 8:16pm
wikiriwhis business

“Get the Gumint outta our lives and get the country moving.”

Someone buy this man a beer.
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November 28, 2008 11:30am
PhilBest

Goodgod, gd, good comments.

Continue on this subject on the new “General Debate” thread today………
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November 28, 2008 1:22pm

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