General Debate 21 November 2008

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Rodders

Nikki Kaye and Jacinda Ardern were interviewed on TV1 Breakfast this morning. I will keep an eye out for an online link to the interview.
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November 21, 2008 8:54am
Rodders

and here the link is : http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/2323576
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November 21, 2008 9:15am
Redbaiter

The way those ignorant fuckwits elected Obama in the US is really starting to rankle with me. As each day goes by, it becomes clearer that it was a gross abuse of the democratic process, and as a result, a dangerous and sly Fabian socialist is now ensconced as the leader of the “free world”.

We need to get a lot more angry at these liberty destroying leftist scum, who in conjunction with their media agents, seek to bit by bit by bit, take from us every freedom we have ever held dear. The mainstream media, who have been perverted from a profession who should watch over our freedom, to a politically active group who seek to incrementally steal our liberty, need to feel a lot more heat for their betrayal. I urge all readers who seek relief from the suffocating influence of the Progressives to direct your anger and your energy at the media. These are the vile people most responsible for our rapidly declining freedoms.
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November 21, 2008 9:17am
reid

How about this from Paul Volcker?

“What this crisis reveals is a broken financial system like no other in my lifetime,” he told a conference at Lombard Street Research in London.

“Normal monetary policy is not able to get money flowing. The trouble is that, even with all this [government] protection, the market is not moving again. The only other time we have seen the US economy drop as suddenly as this was when the Carter administration imposed credit controls, which was artificial.”

His comments come as the blizzard of dire data in the US continues to crush spirits. The Empire State index of manufacturing dropped to minus 24.6 in October, the lowest ever recorded. Paul Ashworth, US economist at Capital Economics, said business spending was now going into “meltdown”, compounding the collapse in consumer spending that is already under way.

Mr Volcker, an adviser to President-Elect Barack Obama and a short-list candidate for Treasury Secretary, warned that it is already too late to avoid a severe downturn even if the credit markets stabilise over coming months. “I don’t think anybody thinks we’re going to get through this recession in a hurry,” he said.

He advised Mr Obama to tread a fine line, embarking on bold action with a “compelling economic logic” rather than scattering fiscal stimulus or resorting to a wholesale bail-out of Detroit. “He can’t just throw money at the auto industry.”

Mr Volcker is a towering figure in the US, praised for taming the great inflation of the late 1970s with unpopular monetary rigour. He is no friend of Alan Greenspan, who replaced him at the Fed and presided over credit excess that pushed private debt to 300pc of GDP.

“There has been leveraging in the economy beyond imagination, and nobody was saying we need to do something,” he said. “There are cycles in human nature and it is up to regulators to moderate these excesses. Alan was not a big regulator.”

Even so, he said the arch-culprit was the bonus system that allowed bankers to draw forward “tremendous rewards” before the disastrous consequences of their actions became clear, as well as the new means of credit alchemy that let them slice and dice mortgage debt into packages that disguised risk.”

Completely disagree with him on the auto-industry of course. It would be madness to let that fail, for the sake of a pitiful $35 billion. Re: that, have a look at this: the Chinese might buy GM and Chrysler….

agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/11/19/02867.html
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November 21, 2008 9:19am
david

Funny how the lid popped off the Rickards paymennt jar immediately after the election. I would be wanting to know who sat on it so successfully and who authorised the final release. The timing is just too close to be co-incidental.

Also last night’s TV reports of waterside workers being laid off with the closure of the interisland freight service (was it Seabridge?). This was announced before the election and it appeared that the affected wharfies were holding some sort of picket but for the life of me I saw nothing on any news report at the time.

What makes it news now but not then?

What other gems are hiding under rocks just busting to see the light of day?
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November 21, 2008 9:22am
NeillR

“Don’t kick him when he’s down”
When he’s down? FFS, this dood has just earnt a law degree while on the taxpayers payroll. He was cleared of charges because people perjured themselves, he’s admitted to the bar so he can practice law and now he’s got a golden handshake because the police wanted to sweep the whole affair under the carpet. I fail to see how Tamihere can possibly consider that that is “down”.
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November 21, 2008 9:25am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Reid, it is not the auto industry which will fail, just the current crop of corporates. Let them go broke and let a new team come in and pick up the assets. There won’t be 3 million jobs lost. Most of the employees will be rehired by the new owners but minus their crippling retirement benefit packages which are at the heart of the problem. Aggressive unions have rendered their employer victims uncompetitive. Any bail out will simply be bailing out the unions and their minions for a couple more years.
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November 21, 2008 9:29am
NeillR

Oh and while we’re at it – how come the Labour passed the anti-smacking law to stop “assault” on children by adults, but children can bully, beat and harrass other children with impunity?
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November 21, 2008 9:31am
Redbaiter

“and here the link is”

..and thank you for that. I watched the show, and its an example of what I mean by media under performance. Jacinda Arden is a Communist. Paul Henry tap danced around the real issues here. I believe he should have followed through on Arden’s sick socialist ideology and been harder on her in respect of her obsession with stealing the fruits of other people’s labour. I’m sick of these damn liberty destroying communists and their smiling deceit. That deceit needs to be exposed, and the media are those who should be taking the lead in exposing it.
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November 21, 2008 9:32am
Redbaiter

“Any bail out will simply be bailing out the unions and their minions for a couple more years.”

It takes two to tango. GM and other management have been complicit in so many concepts that have seriously affected their ability to make a profit. Punitive safety, environment and regulatory frameworks have always been embraced by management when it has in my mind always been pretty clear what the eventual outcome will be. Maybe the unions are partly to blame, but its weak and ineffective management that is the root of the problem.
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November 21, 2008 9:37am
Camryn

Some good links on topics raised so far:

Fixin’ the Financial System: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_4_storm_proofing_economy.html

Let Auto Industry Fail (Chapter 11) from Mitt Romney: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=3&oref=slogin

I highly recommend reading both of these!
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November 21, 2008 9:37am
NeillR

but its weak and ineffective management that is the root of the problem
Damn straight. These fuckwits are so out of touch, they flew to the congressional hearings in private jets! Let the carmakers fail – there’s no need for hard earned tax dollars to prop up this sort of stupidity.
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November 21, 2008 9:46am
Redbaiter

How about Jimmie Anderton who should rejoin Labour but is instead clinging to his defunct party leadership for the sake of another ten grand in parliamentary salary. What a creep.
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November 21, 2008 9:51am
Redbaiter

Don’t forget, these car makers are the bastards ready to install tracking devices in cars the minute the government tells them to. Just shills for big government.
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November 21, 2008 9:53am
cha

Letter from Iceland
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November 21, 2008 9:54am
dime

Redbaiter – i can see why he doesnt rejoin. hes his own boss at the moment! i wouldnt want to have Goff as my boss either.

THE DOLLAR – 52cents!!! when will it be in the 40’s? Monday?
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November 21, 2008 9:55am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

How low can the New Zealand dollar go?

39c looking good.
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November 21, 2008 10:03am
david

Does Goff sound bitter and twisted with his remarks about the Speaker nomination or what?.

There must be something bad in the Labour Leader’s water cooler ‘cos he sounds like HC with a squeeky voice!
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November 21, 2008 10:08am
helmet

The Jacinda Ardern/Nikki Kaye interview was very revealing.
Jacinda is very polished and articulate, but a look at her bio will reveal she’s not actually skilled at anything except arse kissing. She’s made in into parliament on the back of an incredibly favourable list ranking. She’s a professional politician. That’s all she’s ever done, and it’s all she’ll ever do. She’ll be in parliament until she’s an old lady, milking the taxpayer. She also seems pretty fake.

Nikki Kaye is a real contrast. She seems a little rough around the edges, but is personable, funny, sharp and very intelligent. She worked her arse off to get into parliament against all odds, is professionally qualified and talented. She seems very down to earth.

It’s just funny to see a privileged, slippery, nasty (Roger Douglas comments) career politician representing labour, and an independent, straight up battler representing National.

Remind me which is the party of the elite again?

[DPF: I think you are being too harsh on Jacinda. I suggest you at least reserve judgement for a while]
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November 21, 2008 10:09am
Rodders

Do the Labour Party still have the rule that you cannot stand for parliament if you are aged over 70 years old or will turn 70 within the three year term? I recall that Dr Gerry Wall had to retire as an MP in 1987 for that reason.

[DPF: No I think that has gone]
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November 21, 2008 10:10am
Hagues

Redbaiter “I watched the show, and its an example of what I mean by media under performance. Jacinda Arden is a Communist. Paul Henry tap danced around the real issues here. ”

I agree, the only useful information I got out of that interview is that Jacinda can breathe out of her nose 😛
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November 21, 2008 10:11am
Portia

Brad Shipton’s now out of prison.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4768388a11.html

He’s also a former Cop and according to his good mate, Clint Rickards, “not a rapist” , so maybe John Tamihare can get him working with troubled youth too…
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November 21, 2008 10:14am
Redbaiter

To be a bit fairer to Paul Henry, he’d probably be fired by the Commies that control TV One if he ever did show any kind of penchant to really do his job.
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November 21, 2008 10:20am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Jacinda Ardern still wants to pursue equality. What the hell was Helen Clark doing for the last nine years? Somehow I don’t see Jacinda Ardern lasting nine years in parliament. An outcome which is fine by me.

Where was the traditional bone carving necklace?
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November 21, 2008 10:21am
Redbaiter

Jacinda Arden wants to steal money from the productive, and share it with the non-productive, but only after she and her political cronyists have first taken their cut from that money, and it is this process that they advocate as a means to get elected.

Democracy deserves more than this kind of cynical and deceitful manipulation (by Arden and her ilk) of the weak minded, and the media should do more to expose such strategies for the dishonest and duplicitous devices they really are.
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November 21, 2008 10:28am
reid

Re: Auto industry bailout, US manufacturing has been dying due to offshoring. The Big Three combined, are asking for less than was given to AIG, which is mostly a foreign-owned company BTW. Can anyone explain why is AIG more vital to the US economy than the Big Three?

DETROIT, Nov 14, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ — The following is being issued by Automotive News:
If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, it should consider the cost of a GM failure.
Let’s be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a dreamy Chapter 11 filing, a reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW in their place, ensuring future success.
No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the lights on (which it can’t), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a spiral into a Chapter 7 liquidation.
GM’s 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million Americans will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM’s 1,300 suppliers will die. Their collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps even North American transplants. Dealers in every county of America will close.
The government will face greater unemployment, more Americans without health insurance and greater pension liabilities.
Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is not whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with the UAW or supported higher fuel economy standards.
In the next two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other alternative is fantasy.
The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not invest in technology.
The collapse of the global financial system has crushed the American car market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their weaknesses.
Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big two years ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the strings attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn’t deserve money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic owner.
Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out and install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won’t use any of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In any case, he’d need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit “viable.”
Well, nobody — not even AIG — is insuring guarantees for viability.
The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM’s top management may need to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice. Those details can be worked out.
The Detroit 3 CEOs and UAW President Ron Gettelfinger had better tell two critical congressional hearings next week what sacrifices they are prepared to make.
But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it much of manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing — now.
Founded in 1925, Automotive News is the newspaper of the automotive industry. The tabloid newsweekly and its web site, autonews.com, is read by North American car and truck manufacturers, their franchised dealers, and original-equipment suppliers. It is published by Crain Communications Inc.
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November 21, 2008 10:30am
peteremcc

From the interview (not verbatim):

paul henry: you’ve been an MP for a week and you’ve both already learned how to avoid answering questions, who taught you that

jacinda: darren hughes

nikkie: david farrar
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November 21, 2008 10:51am
Razork

I hope Goff is taught how to read a statement by the media experts soon.
Firstly his speech is so slow with what feels like a 2 second gap between words, then he keeps looking down for 3 or 4 seconds to read what’s next.

So we get a great look of the top of his head and the long view down his nose.
I have no idea what he’s actually saying coz his technique is so poor.
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November 21, 2008 11:15am
getstaffed

“How low can the New Zealand dollar go?”
39c looking good.

We’ve been sub-40c. I’m no economist but have a hunch that we’re headed to low 30’s unless the greenback tanks.

New Zealand: The Iceland of the south.
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November 21, 2008 11:20am
Redbaiter

Please allow me to make a point regarding my use of the word ‘communist’, (or commie). I know there’s widespread resistance to the use of this word. I don’t buy into that way of thinking. To me, all of the argument about what to term left wing politics is just camouflage. Socialists, social democrats, democrats, liberals, labourites, progressives, collectivists, whatever they call themselves, their objective is still the same. I said it above about Jacinda Arden-

Jacinda Arden (or any leftist) wants to steal money from the productive, and share it with the non-productive, but only after she and her political cronyists have first taken their cut from that money, and it is this process that they advocate as a means to the political power that is their obsession.

These people have to be repelled. An essential part of repelling them is not to buy into their deceit about who they really are. No matter what silly and minor distinction they suggest makes them different to communists, in the end its a deceit. The truth is they’re all working towards the same objective- “from each according to ability, to each according to need”.

I urge readers not to support the left’s deceit . We must stop assisting them in camouflaging what they really are, and hesitating to call them Communists. If we all reject this propaganda, and publicly name them as followers of this historically destructive and murderous ideology, its a big step to removing their present vice like grip on our lives. That’s why they hate the appellation to the intense degree they do.

The veil over what these people want and what they plan needs to be lifted. Calling them what they really are is a big step forward in this process.
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November 21, 2008 11:21am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/why-we-shouldnt-save-general-motors/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 21, 2008 11:22am
philu

don’t say i never do anything for you..

a dating site for randites..(shudder..!..)

you are all welcome to each other..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/does-my-fountainhead-turn-you-on-baby/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 21, 2008 11:26am
Grendel

Can someone youtube (or someother equivalent) the video of arden and kaye? for some reason all i get is the bloody national bank ad on loop and it won;t go to the actual video.

Cheers.
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November 21, 2008 11:33am
Chthoniid

How low can the New Zealand dollar go?”
39c looking good.

We’ve been sub-40c. I’m no economist but have a hunch that we’re headed to low 30’s unless the greenback tanks.

New Zealand: The Iceland of the south.

Where the NZD ends up will depend on two factors, neither of which we have particulalry good answers to.

First up, there is the issue of how much forex we will be able to borrow to cover our trade deficits. The less we can get, the lower the dollar will go. That means in the worst case, we will have to close our trade deficit by $10bn.

Second up, is just how much demand for our commodities will tank in the global recession.

Note that at 39c, we didn’t close the gap in our current account, so it may have to go a lot further down that that.

If the two issues combine- we can’t sell a lot of stuff and no-one will lend us the money- then yeah, it’s going to go the way of joke currencies. We might have to abandon the NZD and use Australian dollars instead.
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November 21, 2008 11:51am
tknorriss

Anyone seen the TGIF newsflash? Looks like Shane Jones is dog tucker along with a few other Labour MP’s maybe.
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November 21, 2008 12:42pm
Turpin

No whats it say about our mate shane?
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November 21, 2008 1:13pm
Turpin

RB
I’m with you on calling a commie a commie.
Trouble is, they use words like “Change we can believe in” and keep a copy of Alinsky in the toilet to read next to the RD, the one we can identify with and the other only their intimates know about.

Then again maybe they also become Republicans and then give away tons of OPM.
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November 21, 2008 1:15pm
tknorriss

Turpin “No whats it say about our mate shane?”

Wishart has a file from Internal Affairs released under the IOA. Internal Affairs had written to Jones telling him that Yan Lui was under an ongoing criminal investigation for fraud by NZ Authorities. They recommended that Yan Lui’s application be declined (in captital letters. Jones went and crossed out the word “DECLINED” and wrote “approved”. Yan Lui had his little ceremony at parliament three days later.

Apparently, Wishart will be releasing the guts of the file in tonights edition. He is saying that the info that Jones had at his fingertips contained very damning info.

I hope the new government will chase this up.
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November 21, 2008 1:31pm
Turpin

oops.

I thought Jones was one of the Thinkers, shows how much you actually know.
As he overruled his own people and rules is he (Jones) culpable and can we send the chap back?
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November 21, 2008 1:35pm
tknorriss

Apparently Chris Carter also started lobbying for Yan Lui just after getting $5k from him, as well. Those Labour MPs sell themselves cheap!

Should be a good TGIF tonight.
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November 21, 2008 1:43pm
reid

“I thought Jones was one of the Thinkers, shows how much you actually know.”

He is, Turpin.

The real question is, who asked him to do what he did and why?
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November 21, 2008 2:14pm
wikiriwhis business

Redbaiter brings up fabian socialism

I find it incredulous talk back hosts have no idea of the word.

Ronnie on Radio Pacific is always lambasting politicians and decrying the loss of democracy.

Michael laws just wants to jail everyone

No one wants to know the evil perpertrated by Fabian Socialism

all you have to do is put a name to it and you’ve won half the battle
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November 21, 2008 2:17pm
reid

I find it really interesting that some people so readily believe and have researched and understood the real and genuine influence that the Fabians have on society. Yet some of these same people are often either entirely ignorant of or dismiss as a mere “conspiracy theory” the same role and influence that the conservative counterpart organisations such as Chatham House, the Tavistock Institute and the US CFR have on world affairs. You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s all bollocks or it’s all true.
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November 21, 2008 2:44pm
Rex Widerstrom

“How to paint capitalism in the worst possible light by being a selfish greedy boor”. Lesson 1: Gerry Harvey:

“You could go out and give a million dollars to a charity tomorrow to help the homeless. You could argue that it is just wasted. They are not putting anything back into the community.

“It might be a callous way of putting it but what are they doing? You are helping a whole heap of no-hopers to survive for no good reason. They are just a drag on the whole community.”

Yes Gerry, I mean they’re are never gonna access unaffordable cheap credit to buy a 150 inch plasma TV from you if they don’t have a bloody wall to hang it on, the bastards.

With so many business people doing so much – mostly unheralded – for the community, to say this sort of contemptuous tripe is doing them a grave disservice is putting it mildly.
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November 21, 2008 3:06pm
PhilBest

Reid, in terms of influence on the direction of our society, you can’t deny “Cultural Marxism”/The Long March Through The Institutions.

I think the “Fabian” term is obsolete, the beast has morphed much wider than that.

I am not just disturbed at media talking heads being unaware of these things (they are dupes of it themselves), but most so-called “Tory” politicians and even many “conservative” activists are completely ignorant too, of the beast they are faced with. I only started researching this after John Howard gave a speech on it a few years ago – he was a rare example of someone in his position being aware of it.
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November 21, 2008 3:20pm
PhilBest

“……Chatham House, the Tavistock Institute and the US CFR …..” have NIL influence whatsoever on what gets taught in our Unis and schools.
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November 21, 2008 3:21pm
Redbaiter

“but most so-called “Tory” politicians and even many “conservative” activists are completely ignorant too,”

Damn right. I’ve been aware of it for years, and in spite of the success of this left’s strategy being right there to be seen, the fuckwits (so called right wing politicians) keep denying it exists. Losers. We vote for unrealising losers who only betray us in their ignorance. I’m sick of these bumble fisted political dipshits.
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November 21, 2008 3:25pm
PhilBest

I love the title of THIS Wall Street Journal Op-Ed:

“Obama Hears a Giant Sucking Sound”, by Holman W. Jenkins

“His friends advise Barack Obama to launch a “New” New Deal. Maybe that’s because the old New Deal is sinking fast.

Mr. Obama’s one deeply false note during the campaign was his harping on “deregulation” as if that were the source of current troubles. His real problem is the crack-up of the world FDR built.

Fannie Mae was a New Deal creation, subsidizing the securitization of mortgage debt. FDR’s successors piled on the subsidies for housing debt and incentives directed at low-income borrowers. Kaboom.

Then there’s the UAW, born in 1935. For decades the UAW steadily traded away domestic auto market-share to imports and transplants to keep its aging membership toiling away toward their golden pensions and collecting wages and benefits twice those of their competitors. It worked for a while . . .

Mr. Obama must be looking around and beginning to suspect he will be pouring his political capital, along with considerable taxpayer capital, down bottomless holes for the next four years. He won’t be building a legacy as the new FDR, but cleaning up after the last one.

Fannie and its twin, Freddie Mac, have already come back for a second helping of taxpayer money as their once-profitable business model devolves into a politically directed subsidy machine for propping up home prices and delaying foreclosures. Their next meltdown, in government hands, is all but written in the cards.

AIG, an otherwise healthy insurance company that went bust betting on housing debt, has already consumed taxpayer loans and capital injections nearly as big as AIG’s $200 billion market cap when it was one of the world’s most admired firms. AIG still has a valuable insurance business, but ignoramuses in Congress and the press are busy destroying it. The company sells many of its products through busy independent agents. It uses lush “seminars” to encourage them to sit still for pitches about why AIG should still be trusted despite AIG’s purgatory in the headlines. But these seminars only produce more outraged grandstanding from the political commentariat.

It will take years for the government to get AIG off its hands, and there likely won’t be much value left for taxpayers when it finally does.

But the really giant sucking sound is the auto sector, getting ready to gobble up whatever hopes Mr. Obama might have had for an ambitious, forward-looking presidency.

He and Nancy Pelosi naturally insist that any “bailout” must hit multiple bogies. They want UAW jobs to be preserved. They want the shibboleth of energy independence advanced. They want “green” cars to please the Tom Friedmans of the world. They want to tell taxpayers they’re getting more for their money than just a bailout of Detroit.

All this makes sense to a politician, but not to any practical person, who knows that multiple bogies are bound to be conflicting bogies. You could just barely envision a bailout that wouldn’t necessarily be a disastrous waste of money, one that would help Detroit create a competitive cost structure in pursuit of building products that are competitive in the marketplace. But this is just the opposite of what Mr. Obama and his Democrats have in mind.

That Mr. Obama had been sent by history to assuage the insecurities of the middle class with a “New” New Deal was always a tad detached from reality anyway. The reason is those giant legacies of existing New Dealism known as Social Security and Medicare, about which he was careful to say nothing intelligible during the campaign. These programs worked for a while too, but now their expected revenues are (in present value) about $99.2 trillion short of the expected outlays required to assure present and future workers their promised comfort in retirement………”
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November 21, 2008 3:26pm
PhilBest

THIS is a hearty dose of good sense:

“Why Government Spending Does Not Stimulate Economic Growth” By Brian Riedl

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/bg2208.cfm

EXCERPT: The whole thing is 8 pages long, very informative. Do read it all.

“………This is not the first time government expansions have failed to produce economic growth. Massive spending hikes in the 1930s, 1960s, and 1970s all failed to increase economic growth rates. Yet in the 1980s and 1990s—when the federal government shrank by one-fifth as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP)—the U.S. economy enjoyed its greatest expansion to date.

Cross-national comparisons yield the same result. The U.S. government spends significantly less than the 15 pre-2004 European Union nations, and yet enjoys 40 percent larger per capita GDP, 50 percent faster economic growth rates, and a substantially lower unemployment rate.[1]

When conventional economic wisdom repeatedly fails, it becomes necessary to revisit that conventional wisdom. Government spending fails to stimulate economic growth because every dollar Congress “injects” into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. Thus, government spending “stimulus” merely redistributes existing income, doing nothing to increase productivity or employment, and therefore nothing to create additional income. Even worse, many federal expenditures weaken the private sector by directing resources toward less productive uses and thus impede income growth……”
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November 21, 2008 3:31pm
dime

Gotta love Death Metal bands…

this is from the guitar player of a band called VILE:

“So, what does it mean that Barack Obama has been elected? What can we expect? What kind of ‘change’ does he have in mind? A change from war with the Middle East to a war with Russia? Is that the kind of change we want? Well, it’s the kind of change his advisers like Brzezinski and Albright want. What about a change from a free and open Internet and radio to a censored one where you could be arrested for ‘hate speech’? Is that good change? What about a volunteer domestic police force that spies on you and turns you in to the authorities for ‘green crimes’ or for ‘suspicion of terrorism?’ Sound like a nice change? Or maybe the change we need is one where we are granted ‘carbon credits’ where we can only heat our homes on the coldest winters and are denied permission to fly or drive over 50 miles a day because of ‘global warming’ concerns. Maybe that would be a nice change.

“What in the world does this guy stand for? Can anybody tell me? I would guess that they can’t. But I can see that he supported all the wars when he was in Congress, that he promotes a cap and trade system of taxation for the global warming fraud and that he received three times more money than McCain from Wall Street. So I don’t think I need to hear anything from this guy’s mouth, I can already see where we are going. Barack Obama is just another elite puppet like Bush and the rest of the criminals. The only change we are going to get is more theft, a lower standard of living, a worsening economy and perhaps, if were lucky, a new false flag terrorist attack and martial law.
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November 21, 2008 3:33pm
PhilBest

“8 Wasted Years”; by John Derbyshire

“……To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy……”

“…….Thus Barack Obama, writing in his autobiography about his time at the expensive liberal-arts college Occidental in California. I’d like to tell you that he goes on to mock his young self for naïvety and infantile leftism, to deplore the way those “Marxist professors” used their prestige and influence to fill young heads with poisonous rubbish long discredited by events in the real world. I’d like to, but I can’t, because he doesn’t. Obama doesn’t think Marxism is rubbish. He thinks it’s basically … correct.

Not that our President-Elect is going to roar through the U.S. economy nationalizing the means of production, distribution, and exchange. (The current administration has that well in hand, in any case.) Nor, I am pretty sure, will he incite a violent class war, with the losers hustled off to labor camps or driven into exile with the family jewelry sewn into their petticoats. We are long past the point where classical Marxism has any application. Obama can’t incite the workers to seize control of the factories: the factories are all in China. He can’t consolidate peasant small-holdings into communal farms, because there aren’t any peasant small-holdings; and if he tried anyway, no-one would notice, farming being the occupation of less than half of one percent of us.

Barack Obama does, though, have the heart and soul of a cultural Marxist. He sees history in terms of class struggle, with pitiful, soulful Oppressed being brutalized and impoverished by arrogant, heartless Oppressors. Anyone who sees matters in these Who-Whom terms has absorbed the essence of Marxism, even if he has never held a hammer or a sickle — even if, like Obama, he has never held anything heavier than a Community Organizer’s clipboard.

This was the import of the Joe the Plumber incident. In a long campaign your true self is bound to emerge once or twice. No matter how tightly your handlers apply the shrink-wrap, a sharp claw or beak will work its way through now and then. In Barack Obama’s worldview, the Who and the Whom are locked in a bitter struggle, from which the Whom is bound to emerge victorious at last. Then the victors, purified by suffering, will lead mankind on to the sunlit uplands where from each shall be taken according to his abilities, to each shall be given according to his needs.

That these doctrines are utterly false, completely mistaken, and catastrophically destructive in practice, is a thought Barack Obama cannot think. That “ability” and “needs” turn out to be shapeless and slippery concepts when politicians try to corral them, has not occurred to him. (I need a new car. Will whichever citizen has been delegated to pay for it, please mail the check to National Review? Thank you.) How could such thoughts have occurred to him? He was a red-diaper baby, offspring of a love-the-world, hate-America sixties gal and an African socialist in the Mugabe mould, raised by leftish grandparents addled with “Uncle Tim” racial guilt, and mentored by a hard-Left labor radical.

Pat Buchanan (Whom God Preserve!) gave his own autobiography the title Right from the Beginning. If Barack Obama had been a tad more honest when writing his, he could just as well have titled it Left from the Beginning. He was honest enough though, lavishing praise on coarse, fascistic radicals like the odious Jeremiah Wright. (You can let Rev’m Wright out of the basement now, guys.)……”
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November 21, 2008 3:34pm
PhilBest

Dime, I positively detest heavy metal and the Chomskyite garbage that its boof-headed adherents so often subscribe to.

But check out Ted Nugent. (Try Youtube). I still despise the music style, but the outrageous non-PC lyrics make me chuckle……..
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November 21, 2008 3:40pm
dime

Phil – I have problems with Nugent.. My name comes from Dimebag Darrell (a guy I had the privilege of knowing), who was one of the all time great guitar players. Dimebag was murdered by a psycho marine while playing onstage. The tributes came in from all around the world. Nugent took the opportunity to have a dig at him. No class.

Are you in Auckland Phil? My best buddies band is playing tonight.. http://www.sinate.net

Come along, we can hit shooters all night and talk economics heh
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November 21, 2008 3:51pm
Redbaiter

Obama’s great plans for “change” don’t seem to have impressed the business sector that much.
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November 21, 2008 3:53pm
Redbaiter

“With so many business people doing so much – mostly unheralded – for the community, to say this sort of contemptuous tripe is doing them a grave disservice is putting it mildly.”

Its not comtemptuous (sic) tripe, its the damn truth. Most homeless these days are that way because they fucken well choose to be homeless. Billions are spent on welfare by weak minded politicians who think it solves problems, yet these people, so called homeless, choose not to avail themselves. Its a lifestyle choice.
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November 21, 2008 3:58pm
Ryan Sproull

Its [sic] not comtemptuous (sic) tripe, its [sic] the damn truth.
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November 21, 2008 4:08pm
dime

redbaiter – dam right!

just read that Fiji have increased their Military spending to $1.1 Billion (NZ) per year!

What do we spend?

Wonder if they need Sky Hawks?
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November 21, 2008 4:10pm
Rex Widerstrom

Redbaiter:

Obama’s great plans for “change” don’t seem to have impressed the business sector that much.

The Standard:

…Obama’s vacuous rhetoric…

Well, it didn’t take long for absolutely everyone to figure out the Emperor has no clothes. Prior to Inauguration must be some sort of record. Compare that with the positive reviews Key’s getting, even from Chris Trotter (as DPF points out on another thread today) and Key must be wishing he’d never compared himself to such a loser 😀
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November 21, 2008 4:12pm
reid

“……Chatham House, the Tavistock Institute and the US CFR …..” have NIL influence whatsoever on what gets taught in our Unis and schools.”

PhilBest your comment is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Of course they don’t. That’s not what they’re there for. They exist to design policies and exert influence in other areas of power politics and general social influence and if you don’t know what they do and in which areas of the power structures they operate, then do some research.

I repeat the point, it’s not all one-sided. There are all sorts of players gaming us, and they exist across all parts of the spectrum. See this is the reason why I’ve often said that the war on terror is complete bollocks. But they designed it to give conservatives something to think about in exactly the same way they designed AGW which is for lefties. I mean, seriously, the way AGW has come out of nowhere to become number one hot issue, in just a few years. You really think that happened without design and direction. And equally, the way they portray the war on terror as being a threat to a nation as if it was an invading army, do you really think there aren’t ulterior motives for that? Newsflash, it has to do with boiling frogs. It’s designed to get people used to living in a state of paranoia and fear, with identity chips, surveillance, random searches (coming), all necessary to “protect us.”

Yes, there are genuine bad guys. But they’re a relative handful and none of them are a threat to any nation. They’re a threat to individual civilians and they will be blamed for committing another atrocity much larger than 911. All part of the program.

So I repeat, it’s really odd how some people see one half of the picture and seem to imagine that that is all that there is.
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November 21, 2008 4:13pm
Redbaiter

“Well, it didn’t take long for absolutely everyone to figure out the Emperor has no clothes.”

If the media had done their job people would have known this before the election, and the useless prick wouldn’t have been elected. (Not that McClame was much better.) The media need to challenge politicians, not worship at their feet like yapping tail wagging Pomeranians. Partisan anti-democratic scum.
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November 21, 2008 4:18pm
Rex Widerstrom

“Homelessness is a lifestyle choice”.

Yeah it’s that whole “freezing to death, getting beaten up by drunken louts and foraging in the trash for food” thing that makes it so irresistibly attractive.

Damn, we need to find a way to make homelessness seem unpleasant, to deter all these slackers who decline a warm bed, a hot meal and a shower for the thrill of dragging their belongings behind them in a rucksack and smelling like week old offal.

And then there’s those real adrenaline junkies, the mentally ill. I mean we closed their asylums, came up with the slogan “community care”, failed to resource the community to do so and, having done our “reforming” promptly left them to their own devices. Those bastards are really living it up. Clearly we need a crackdown.

I hear your friends the Communist Chinese did a good job with homeless and the mentally ill prior to the Beijing Games, Redbaiter. I think it had something to do with forcing them into the countryside at gunpoint. At least if we copied them, Gerry Harvey could drive his Roller to the office without having those damned sleeping homeless people acting like speed bumps.
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November 21, 2008 4:21pm
Redbaiter

“Yeah it’s that whole “freezing to death, getting beaten up by drunken louts and foraging in the trash for food” thing that makes it so irresistibly attractive.”

So I take it you’re denying it? Look, I lived in Montreal for some years. Ever been there?? The fucken beggars there are everywhere yet Canada has one of the most expensive and wide ranging welfare systems in the world. They sit in the snow during the day with their cups in front of themselves, and at night they sleep in their shelters or in wheelie bins or whatever. They could if they wanted resort to a hundred government agencies or charities for shelter but they choose not to. Believe what you want Rex, I’ve actually talked to them and they’ve told me this is their preference.

BTW, didn’t see them being beaten. If anything they were the ones intimidating and threatening pedestrians. Especially old people, who they often deliberately obstructed until they coughed up. They get fuck all pity from me I’m sorry.
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November 21, 2008 4:36pm
Rex Widerstrom

I’m not denying the truth of your experiences Redbaiter, though I find them extraordinary. I spent 3 years full time working with homeless and unemployed people in Wellington and still encounter them in other voluntary work I undertake.

Only last month I sorted out a guy whose 8 months pregnant girlfriend was in prison (for stealing baby items from chemists and supermarkets mainly). They wouldn’t let her out till she could quote a permanent address. The boyfriend, meanwhile, was living in a dumpster outside the visiting centre at the prison. As a single male he had no priority for emergency accommodation, but as told that, when he turned up with his pregnant girlfriend, they’d be top of the list.

And thus the bureaucratic Catch-22 went round… and round… and round…

He didn’t want to live in a dumpster and his girlfriend didn’t want to have her baby in prison. And he’s just the latest in a lifetime’s string of people, none of whom wanted to be in the position in which they found themselves.

And nor did I, for that matter, when first released from prison and having spent my savings on hostel accommodation was about to be thrown on the street when a church group stepped in and paid my rent for a week. In that week I managed to find a lousy paying, thankless job which brought in just enough to get by. But for that donation, I’d have had no address or phone number at which to be contacted for work; nowhere to shower and get changed for job interviews; nowhere to sit down and write a decent-looking application for a job… and my life might have been very different. But I wouldn’t have wanted it to be.

So I guess we’ve just encountered diametrically opposite populations of homeless :-/
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November 21, 2008 5:01pm
Redbaiter

“So I guess we’ve just encountered diametrically opposite populations of homeless :-/”

Maybe so, but I’m not saying there are no people out there in need of help. I’m saying that widespread and indiscriminate sympathy for the group frequently referred to by the MM as ‘the homeless” (read what Bernard Goldberg has to say on them in “Bias’, and how they suddenly become “news” whenever Conservative politiicans are elected) is misplaced.
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November 21, 2008 5:08pm
Ratbiter

Rex – He should show up at the Night Shelter up the top of Taranaki St. They’ll sort him out. I’m told it’s relatively easy to get back into the system if you choose to ask for the right help. But you’d know a lot more about this than I by the sounds of things.

Now Blanket Man, OTOH, has a legion of fans who bring him booze and weed and money. And a modicum of fame. In some eyes, he’s made it work for him, so no wonder you don’t see him trying too hard to get out of the vicious cycle!
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November 21, 2008 5:18pm
PhilBest

Rex, Redbaiter is right. There has always been people in society with problems, it is just the way society deals with it that has changed. No-one needs to sleep in a dumpster, there are shelters run by charitable organisations.

But there used to be “vagrancy” laws that meant that people would be forced by the authorities to sleep in a free bed with a free roof over their heads.

Some people comment that Seden doesn’t have homeless people on their streets, but the USA does. The difference is that in Sweden, they are still rounded up by the authorities. The USA though, regards that as an infringement of someone’s rights.

There are some very good articles by Heather MacDonald on City Journal touching on this subject.

“The Reclamation of Skid Row”
“There Go The Neighbourhoods”
“Greed Is For Other People”

The system won’t like links to all these – Google them for yourself.

You won’t believe the clout and clamour of the agencies that swing into action to prevent local authorities and law enforcement from “cleaning up skid row”.
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November 21, 2008 5:26pm
Redbaiter

Another excellent book by Heather Macdonald is “The Burden of Bad Ideas”. Rips progressive thinking on welfare to shreds.
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November 21, 2008 5:29pm
Redbaiter

From a review of above book-

Foremost among liberal dogma is the notion that the poor cannot be held responsible for their own behavior due to victimization by an unjust and racist American society. But Mac Donald doesn’t stop there. She blazes a trail right into the heart of liberal territory, attacking the very heart and core of its ideology, simply by holding up a mirror of truth to philanthropic organizations, government health agencies, the family courtroom, schools for lawyers and teachers, welfare policies, museums, and foster care. Weve seen no other journalistic effort that matches this one, a careful chronicling of the destructive philosophy pervading the nation’s elite institutions, along with an incisive analysis of how these perverted concepts destroy and blind. If taken to heart, this book could instigate a return to wisdom, breaking the stronghold of liberal mantras that now mold the thoughts and actions of the next generation on practically every public front.
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November 21, 2008 5:35pm
PhilBest

Sorry, I’m not an Aucklander, Dime, and “metal”, full stop, is like poison to my ears. Sorry to hit a nerve about Nugent, I’m sorry to hear that.

My musical tastes are very eclectic, and range from Montiverdi to Warren Maxwell (I agree with Dave Dobbyn that Warren is the greatest talent in NZ contemporary “pop” music).

In “pop” music, my tastes are all along the lines of Earth Wind and Fire, Jamiroquai, George Benson, Al Jarreau, Stevie Wonder, The Commodores, anything with Quincy Jones involved, Motown, Soul, Funk, Bob Marley, Reggae, Katchafire, The Black Seeds, Trinity Roots and anything Warren Maxwell is in……..you get the idea? (BUt I don’t go for rap except in small doses. Ronnie Jordan, good. Snoop Dogg, bad).

Want to start an argument about “Greatest Guitarist”; I will fight for recognition for George Benson, Wes Montgomery, Tuck Andress, Julian Bream, John Williams, Andres Segovia. I think that there is not one single rock or metal guitarist worthy to wipe the boots of any recognised jazz or classical guitarist. Hook any Jazz or Classical guitarist up to megawatts and mega distortion, and they would blow your two-chord metallers to kingdom come. But they don’t operate that way.
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November 21, 2008 5:42pm
Redbaiter

“I think that there is not one single rock or metal guitarist worthy to wipe the boots of any recognised jazz or classical guitarist.”

Mark Knopfler? Heard his flamenco(?) version of “So Far Away”?? Check it out on youtube, live at the Sydney Opera House. Wonderful.
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November 21, 2008 5:47pm
PhilBest

Oh, and I do agree with onetime NZ rocker Tony Backhouse, who disappeared off the NZ contemporary music scene 30 years ago because he discovered the music world’s best kept secret, all the best contemporary music, period, is being made in the Christian sector. Especially the Black Christian Music sector. Although all credit is due to Tony Backhouse for what he does, he can’t match the people he himself admires.
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November 21, 2008 5:47pm
PhilBest

The honest best rock guitarists, of whom Knopfler is one, will freely admit in the right company that they listen to, admire, and learn from, the kind of people I have named. And it shows. Thanks for the tip about that particular performance, Redbaiter. Knopfler is the kind of guy who will have been working at that for years because he knew he wasn’t there with the people he listens to, yet.

The “musicians” who make me sick are the ones who think they are the greatest because they are famous, and don’t know anything about the history of their instrument or who else plays it and in what ways.

Clapton makes a beautiful one-liner in his bio that sums this up……”when I was sixteen, I thought I was the world’s greatest guitarist….”

That was the age at which someone exposed him to some real guitar playing outside his own dumbed-down genre. I say the same about him now, that I do about Knopfler – he’s an honest man who freely admits how many people he can’t play the guitar like.
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November 21, 2008 5:55pm
PhilBest

Hey, thanks for the tip about the book by Heather MacDonald, too, Redbaiter, I will buy that.
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November 21, 2008 5:58pm
PhilBest

Ratbiter (247) Vote: 1 0 Says:

November 21st, 2008 at 5:18 pm
“Rex – He should show up at the Night Shelter up the top of Taranaki St. They’ll sort him out. I’m told it’s relatively easy to get back into the system if you choose to ask for the right help. But you’d know a lot more about this than I by the sounds of things.

Now Blanket Man, OTOH, has a legion of fans who bring him booze and weed and money. And a modicum of fame. In some eyes, he’s made it work for him, so no wonder you don’t see him trying too hard to get out of the vicious cycle!”

RATBITER, man, I gave you that karma point, that is a very good posting, it’s not often we’re on the same side of an argument, eh?
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November 21, 2008 6:00pm
PhilBest

Reid, I can’t make you out. You sound like you do buy the “9/11 was an inside job” theory. Snap out of it, man.

Even Noam Chomsky rubbishes the idea.

I don’t disagree about influence being wielded by a range of political groups, but you can’t deny that taking over the education system and the media is an act hard to beat; and it sure as heck ain’t a “conservative” “long march through the institutions” that has that scalp hanging from their belt.
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November 21, 2008 6:05pm
Rex Widerstrom

PhilBest says:

No-one needs to sleep in a dumpster, there are shelters run by charitable organisations.

Most are chock full. When I enquired about a bed at the night shelter (albeit in Australia) I was told you were “rationed” to one night a fortnight!! (Not that the idea of the night shelter held much appeal – in warmer climes I’d be tempted to sleep in a park rather than in a room packed with unwashed men, many rambling with DTs).

Ask any charity and they’ll tell you they’re not coping. And my original point was that people like Gerry Harvey could choose to make a difference (and he could target his assitance to people he thought “deserving” if he wanted to – I or anyone else who works amongst people in need can quickly point out the malingerers v the real cases) but instead chooses to denigrate everyone who’s ever been homeless (which includes, very nearly, me).

It’s been my experience that homelessness is indeed less of a problem in NZ than elsewhere because charitable groups seem particularly good at coping. The organisation for which I worked in Wellington, Morehu Social Services, wasn’t one of the “big” charities, didn’t have the benefit of street day appeals and so on, but still managed to maintain two large homes for those in need.

Like the unemployed, the homeless fall into two broad categories. The vast majority, who want to get out of their situation but can’t because of some flaw in the system (such as the guy I mentioned above, who in a short month now has a roofover his and his girlfriend’s heads and is working to make a life for them and their baby) and just go about their lives not making a fuss and thus not being noticed. And the much smaller group of “lifestylers” who choose to live that way and usually make a damned nuisance of themselves bumming money. And, like the unemployed, it’s this group who are visible and thus come to represent, in the minds of many, all people in such a situation.

(Plus the subset of the mentally ill, whom you’ll find make up a large proportion of the homeless, and particularly the scary sort).

To tar them all with the same brush is not only inaccurate, it’s unfair.
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November 21, 2008 6:06pm
PhilBest

What do you say about the fact that every OTHER Western nation apart from the USA, has had more stringent surveillance and so on of their societies going back a long time, than the Bush admin tried to institute after 9/11? And no, I certainly don’t believe that Bush had anything to do with 9/11 happening, I do believe that a bunch of Islamic Fundamentalist nutters with box cutters pulled it off on their own. How else do you explain the mobile phone conversations between people on board the planes and their contacts on the ground?

And furthermore, I do believe that the USA has an unfortunate habit of being caught napping by imaginative enemies. I do believe that a bigger attack will happen, and it will be perpetrated by america’s enemies, not American admins themselves.
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November 21, 2008 6:09pm
PhilBest

Point accepted, Rex Widerstrom. If there are flaws in the system, they should be addressed. But presumably people like your example end up sorted and working. What Redbaiter and I object very much to, is the existence of “homeless” people being used to condemn a particular govt’s policies, usually free market policies, when the problem is either pathological or a breakdown in well-intentioned systems.

Actually, the biggest causes of people at the bottom not being able to get ahead, are all the restrictions on housing and business start-ups and licensing and so on, that move the bottom rung of the ladder up out of reach. Sir James Wattie would never have been able to start his cannery in his garage today.

I recommend:

“Freedom of Opportunity, Not Equality of Opportunity”, by George Reisman
“Scratching By; How Government creates poverty as we know it”, by Charles Johnson
“What About The Poor?” by Barry Loberfeld
“The Mystery of Capital”, by Hernando DeSoto

(The last advocates what a boost it is to shantytown dwellers to simply get their small businesses and dwellings accepted and titles given to them, instead of governments insisting that they go through a whole lot of regulatory hoops they can’t afford, and bulldozing the homes they have scratched up).
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November 21, 2008 6:23pm
Lee

“Want to start an argument about “Greatest Guitarist””

Angus Young of ACDC, hands down.

I don’t listen to Metal any more, but did so in the 1980’s.

Nowadays I really can’t stand mainstream music of any genre.
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November 21, 2008 6:33pm
PhilBest

By the way, Reid, the commonest cause of states increasing surveillance of their citizens, is increasing crime as a result of social breakdown linked back to that Long March through the institutions. The intellectuals in charge of the “soft on crime” approach and the politicians covering for them, will not allow for reducing crime by tougher measures, will deny the problem or deny that tougher measures work, or shift the blame off the criminal and turn the criminal into a “victim”.

All to the better for THEIR longterm plan for one party statist government.

I don’t know where this fits into your “evil right wing” agenda theories.
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November 21, 2008 6:40pm
PhilBest

I repeat, Lee,

I think that there is not one single rock or metal guitarist worthy to wipe the boots of any recognised jazz or classical guitarist. Hook any Jazz or Classical guitarist up to megawatts and mega distortion, and they would blow your two-chord metallers to kingdom come. But they don’t operate that way.
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November 21, 2008 6:41pm
Lee

I don’t know my friend. Listen to Angus in his prime, especially in the late 70’s-early 80’s. Still, music, like all art, is extremely subjective.
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November 21, 2008 6:55pm
grumpyoldhori

Republican party a a party for the hard working white fundy low information voters only ?
No wonder some Democrats are saying they will vote for Palin in the Republican primaries.
For some reason the Democrats believe a women who pals around with a witch doctor will not look good in the eyes of independents in a Presidential election.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/18/AR2008111802886.html
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November 21, 2008 7:26pm
Rex Widerstrom

PhilBest says:

What Redbaiter and I object very much to, is the existence of “homeless” people being used to condemn a particular govt’s policies, usually free market policies, when the problem is either pathological or a breakdown in well-intentioned systems.

On that we’re all in complete agreement. And what annoys me even more is the “if you’re not a lefty you’re a hard-hearted bastard who doesn’t give a damn” meme. No one has a monopoly on compassion, nor on the solutions to social problems. Usually what people need when they’re on hard times is a hand out and then a hand up, with expectations to meet at every step.

What usually happens is that bleeding hearts and hard hearts stand over the poor bastard pointing their fingers at one another and yelling till he either crawls away under his own steam or expires, thus giving them even more to scream at one another about.

Actually, the biggest causes of people at the bottom not being able to get ahead, are all the restrictions on housing and business start-ups and licensing and so on, that move the bottom rung of the ladder up out of reach.

Hear, hear. red tape stifles initiative. And it even stifles effective welfare.
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November 21, 2008 7:33pm
Rex Widerstrom

Not that I’m in any way an expert, but if people want to hear a truly incredible guitarist live as opposed to recorded, NZ has one of the best in the world, IMHO – Lance Sua (no, not the Warriors player, that’s Lance Sua-Poe).

A relatively young fella (younger than me, anyway) he’s already being cited as an influence by other NZ musos. There seems to be precious little of his work online, but here’s some 1992 stuff on which he plays lead guitar.

I had the privilege of working with Lance when he was a teenager and despite it being obvious he was a prodigy he was the most humble, self-effacing guy you could hope to meet.

I have no idea where he’s playing now, but if you see his name on a poster, shell out for a ticket ( and if my brother’s playing drums and/or percussion, shell out for several 😀 )
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November 21, 2008 7:54pm
Buggerlugs

NeillR –
My 8 year old son was getting bullied at school. He’s big for his age but knows he can get into trouble if he fights back. I spoke to the teacher who did sweet FA, so one day I told my son to crack the head bully and keep cracking if necessary.

He told me it took one punch one lunchtime after his lunch got thrown into the garden. He was sent to the office and the teacher in charge of telling kids off (not the principal, funnily enough) said she was going to ring me.

He said fine, get Dad down here. No call was ever made. No bullying since, and the other kids are now starting to stand up to the bullies. That’s all fine and dandy, but what happens to kids in a similar position who can’t stand up for themselves and arent able to rely on the teachers who use the ‘no corporal punishment’ defence?

I feel a commercial opportunity coming on – a bit like Drillbit Taylor – just more effective.
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November 21, 2008 7:54pm
reid

“Reid, I can’t make you out. You sound like you do buy the “9/11 was an inside job” theory. Snap out of it, man.

Even Noam Chomsky rubbishes the idea.”

Geez PhilBest, this is 101.

Firstly, the 911 official story is full of holes. That’s a fact, pure and simple. If you don’t or can’t or won’t accept it, you haven’t objectively looked at the issues that have been raised. Period.

Note that observation does not say anything about what I think about perpetrators, motives, or method. Any such thoughts you have when reading such statements are yours, not mine.

Side issue but you’re aware of course the 911 Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner have publically stated their own report didn’t get to the truth. You know that, right? Let’s not go down that route, I can’t be arsed relitigating – it’s very tiresome. The facts are there and freely available. You need an open mind.

Secondly, Noam Chomsky says 911 wasn’t an inside job? So freakin what? Why does that mean anything? Charlie Sheen reckons it was. Does that mean anything? No in both cases.

Again Phil, this is 101.

The points I was making aren’t about 911 anyway, they’re much wider than that. You and everyone really should realise we’re all being gamed 24/7 and have been since forever. Do you really think the Vietnam war was legitimate? How about JFK – you really think LHO killed him acting alone? What about Iraq, the Great Depression, communism (what did Lenin learn during his years in Britain?) and on and on and on.

Truth is, without hard evidence I don’t know if anything I’ve read about all of those events is really true or not and since the only hard evidence is locked up in the archives of the intelligence agencies if it exists at all, who knows if it’s factual or not. However, I’ve observed that when people discount the veracity of such propositions and you quiz them a little on the details of how the dots have become connected over time, most of those people don’t even see the dots, let alone the connections. In other words, they’ve just discounted the concept because it passes beyond their experience. and you can tell that by debating the issue with them. Personally I call that ignorance.

I wouldn’t say I hold particularly fast to any of the connections that I’ve read about, I simply use it as background understanding and adjust them over time as new information comes in. I’m always ready to revise, but any revision has to satisfy the questions raised and most people who try to argue that the proposition you’re putting forward is bullshit, never even know the questions, let alone the answers.
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November 21, 2008 9:21pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

An interesting story that seems to have been missed:
Shots fired in Bolger’s plane when PM

Here’s hoping John Key’s protection squad are a little less accident prone.
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November 22, 2008 3:19am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

A new era of honesty?(An update of the previous link):
Police: Shot didn’t hit plane

Judith Collins has her work cut out fix the New Zealand police force after the corrupt years of the Clark regime.
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November 22, 2008 5:37am
Glutaemus Maximus

Just weeks after being faced with rocketing oil prices and petrol costing almost £1.20 a litre, and many people deciding to downsize and change their gas guzzling car for a more fuel efficient smaller model, we now face concerns around the world about the falling price of a barrel of oil (down to around $50 a barrel from the high of over $150). It seems that this too is bad for the global economy. Does this mean an upturn in the fortunes of large 4×4 vehicles is on the cards? Strange things do happen, even the unveiling of a diesel engined Porsche.

The senior executives of the big three car companies went to lobby for financial assistance from the US government this week. With losses from just one of their companies totalling $2bn a month, they warned of a total of three million job losses as a direct result of their businesses failing.

With their pleas of poverty still ringing in the ears of the Senate, but no decision on their request for public money to bail them out, they flew back to Detroit in their private jet at an estimated cost of $20,000.

With all of the attention paid to reducing CO2 levels in an attempt to halt the march of global warming, it is obvious that transport will be heavily scrutinised. Yet it has always been thus.

It has been revealed that back in 1873 it was feared that ‘if the use of the horse and carriage continued to rise at the current rates, by 1961 all England would be covered by a layer of manure some one yard deep’.

How would they have measured our tax liability had the car not been invented? By the bucketload?
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November 22, 2008 7:19am
expat

I was reading the evening standard or the metro the other day and an interesting article was quoting victorian london as having either 1 or 3 million pounds of horse turds on the street, it may have been a different number but it sticks in my mind as a huge smelly number.
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November 22, 2008 8:22am
PhilBest

Rex, good on you for that plug of Lance Sua.

That is just my point. In every city in the world, there are jazz and classical guitarists who have done the hard yards working on their technique, done years of training; and they can play stuff that no famous rock guitarist would have a cooee of tackling.

Lance Sua, yes.

Also in Wellington:

Leigh Jackson
Simon Bowden
Josh Hindmarsh
Joe Callwood
Josh Boyd
Boyan Ristanovich
Matthew Marshall
Owen Moriarty

But hey, I’m doing an injustice to all the guys I’m leaving out……..
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November 22, 2008 1:46pm
PhilBest

It is no accident that the kids who win the Smokefree Rock Quest every year, are kids who have attended the NZ School of Music Jazz Academy. The straight-ahead wannabe 3-chord rockers don’t stand an earthly.
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November 22, 2008 1:49pm
PhilBest

Reid, I believe that holes in official stories are far more likely to involve coverup of incompetence, than outright evil of the kind you are suggesting.

I despise Noam Chomsky as a normal thing, he is like the main guru of anti-Americanism and anti-Bushism in the world; but he talked a whole lot of good sense about the “9/11 was an inside job” theory. There is a Youtube video of him discussing it.

Basically, if it was an inside job, how many people would have had to be involved? How did all the people on board the flights, come to be deceived into saying what they did on their mobile phones, and what happened to them all if it wasn’t Muslim fundamentalist hijackers crashing the planes they were on, into buildings?

So, how many people involved? Do you honestly think there are that many people in a closed enough circle, within the empowered agencies of the USA, that would take a part in a scheme that evil, without leaking a hint, ever? Not one whistleblower, or even one troubled individual shouting the wrong things in his sleep?

One doesn’t have to be “gullible” about the culture in which Americans have been raised, one knows in the depths of one’s being that such an allegation is an impossibility, a complete, utter, impossibility.

But when a culture routinely sends people of all types to self-detonate in supermarkets, one can readily believe that such people would do what happened on Sept. 11. Or are those suicide bombers a contrivance of power-grabbing fascist Jew secret society politicians, too?

I repeat; snap out of it, man.
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November 22, 2008 2:02pm

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