General Debate 20 November 2008

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Good to see Helen Clark and Michael Cullen take a pay cut:

MPs start new jobs with an instant pay rise

Oh how the mighty have fallen.
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November 20, 2008 9:48am
Johnboy

I sort of miss them though, it’s a bit boring having no one to hate anymore.
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November 20, 2008 9:56am
coventry

Was Wednesday Garbage collection day in Wellington Central ? There seemed to be a lot of useless crap floating around Parliament that needs to be disposed of. And as for Heluns pay cut, awww diddums… suck it up biatch.
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November 20, 2008 10:03am
dime

johboy – mallard is still hanging around!
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November 20, 2008 10:03am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

NZ herald get their headline slightly wrong:
Labour lineup will be mix of old and new

Should be “Labour lineup will be mix of old and decrepit”

I still enjoy the Left having a bitch about how “it was the Herald wot won it” for National. 😆
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November 20, 2008 10:11am
Viking2

Who would pay that p—-k to do anything, other than taxpayers. Oh maybe the Petone Railway Workshops. Dishwasher maybe?
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November 20, 2008 10:13am
getstaffed

David, not sure if this is just me… but there appears to be ‘something’ on kiwiblog’s homepage which is munching loads of CPU as shown in Windows Task Manager. Doesn’t seem to be a problem with an open thread, just the homepage. I’ve tried killing all other tabs, measuring kiwiblog home vs thread pages etc.
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November 20, 2008 10:18am
getstaffed

Good to see Helen Clark and Michael Cullen take a pay cut

I think a quick audit of their finances would show healthy passive income streams. Almost certainly more healthy than 9 years ago.
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November 20, 2008 10:20am
Turpin

turn the muncher off David.
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November 20, 2008 10:20am
Woodstein

I don’t miss them one iota Johnboy. Dime is right though, we can divert our feelings about Clark and Cullen to Mallard. He’s a soft target!
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November 20, 2008 10:21am
bobux

First the NZ Navy ordered the HMNZS Canterbury, a multi-role ship with design limitations pretty much ensuring it would never be able to do all the things the navy wanted. And they accepted it from the manufacturer without the sort of due diligence and assessment anyone else would apply to a used car.

The following link is the best possible spin NZDF could put on damning external report.

http://www.defence.govt.nz/reports-publications/canterbury-independent-review/summary-recommendations.html

Now we find that the two offshore patrol vessels have serious problems too. They are based on a design used by the Irish navy, but ice-strengthened for the southern ocean. Trouble is, the extra weight of the strengthening means they shouldn’t go into the souern ocean at all. You’d have thought that someone might have given this some consideration before actually building them, wouldn’t you? The only (slim) consolation is that this time, the navy hasn’t actually accepted them from the builder, meaning that there might be some come-back for the taxpayer.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4765869a11.html

Now, can anyone remember who was the last Minister of Defence?

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/?q=node/29607

Ahhh, THAT guy.
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November 20, 2008 10:24am
Turpin

This reminds me of the LAV’s the army bought.
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November 20, 2008 10:35am
dime

bobux – Do we ever buy any Military equipment from the US? It always seem to be Euro trash.
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November 20, 2008 10:37am
16a Highbury Rd

What I hate is the sycophantic eulogies that go on about how great Helen Clark was on the world stage. What I want to know is who judges this? Obviously Kiwis residing in this country have absolutely no idea how we are perceived elsewhere. These people are just parroting bullshit they have been fed by Helen herself.

I would love someone to point me to an international relationship that is blossoming where NZ is getting something tangible out of it that can be directly attributted to Clark and not the Minister of trade and the officials doing the work behind the scenes at MFAT.

Can you imagine what it would be like at social functions if Helen and hubby get a post representing NZ overseas.

Host: “Who the hell are those people?”

Advisor: “Whom are you referring to sir?”

Host: “The ugly bint who’s teeth look like she’s just done 10 rounds with Tyson and had her hair styled by Helen Keller standing with the bearded pervert”

Advisor: “That’s Mrs and Mr Clark representing New Zealand”
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November 20, 2008 10:43am
goodgod

Now, can anyone remember who was the last Minister of Defence?

yeah it was the same guy that was minister for disarmament. Maybe he should go into the southern ocean in a lead boat. Nothing like disarming the navy by drowning the sailors and sending the boats to the bottom of the sea. It’d be a brilliant wartime strategy if it was directed against an enemy’s navy. What a cocksucker he is.
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November 20, 2008 10:49am
Johnboy

Begorrah so de boats are desoigned by de Oirish Navy den, no wonder dere no bluddy use den. We should have used the desoign used so successfully by de Swiss Navy oi am tinking.
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November 20, 2008 10:58am
dime

Helen was fantastic on the world stage! Remember when she said the US were losig the Iraq war? Then 3 days later we saw the images of Saddams statue coming down?

The only reason we have any goodwill with the US is that they are desperate for friends!
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November 20, 2008 11:01am
goodgod

I’m tired of popular thought suggesting that the Higher Salaries Commission is more or less an organic organisation, not far removed from divine influence, and that there’s nothing anyone can do to stop politicians salaries going up, and that we should all just accept it.

it is of course, a lie.

And a bad look for a goverment who were all big talk about cutting costs before they were elected. Oh fuck, what a yawn: a hypocritical political party. I’ve seen it all before, have you?

Hey, National, can you actually start implementing your pre-election policy please. You’re boring the fuck outta me already. Don’t drag the hypocrisy and disappointment out, lads, just go to it. Labour would, and damn the torpedoes.
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November 20, 2008 11:17am
dime

goodgod – The Cabinet were sworn in yesterday! John is off to Peru. What would you prefer to happen today? an emergency sitting of parliment?

Get back to us in 100 days.
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November 20, 2008 11:19am
Turpin

I don’t know about that I think the Americans aren’t desparate for friends, they genuinely like us!
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November 20, 2008 11:21am
dime

Turpin – I can tell they like us by the way they fingerprint me at LAX and scan my eye… as my friend from Aussie waltzes on through!

Helen did damage to our relationship with the US.

We are lucky in that we are basically a white, english speaking nation and their arent that many left! We are also lucky that the US only bomb brown people.
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November 20, 2008 11:28am
Johnboy

“We are also lucky that the US only bomb brown people.”

This policy may of course change when the new president assumes office.
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November 20, 2008 11:33am
dime

heh thats true
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November 20, 2008 11:34am
dime

Column from Mitt ROmeny on the US car makers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=2

Basically the unions have fucked them and the 20 billion will just prolong their slow death. His solution is to bring wages inline with the other car makers like toyota, bmw etc.

enjoy Roger 😛
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November 20, 2008 11:36am
Turpin

I think a lot might change in ways we don’t envisage if the fundie press is anything to go by.
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November 20, 2008 11:36am
Johnboy

Perhaps if he avoids book depositorys and grassy knolls he will make a lasting contribution to the world.
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November 20, 2008 11:41am
dime

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=2

an article by Mitt Romney on the US carmakers. He knows the industry well.

Basically wages have crippled the industry, a $20 billion cheque will just prolong its death. They need to make some big changes.

Enjoy Roger 😛
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November 20, 2008 11:48am
big bruv

I note that the airwaves are full of people moaning about the salary increase for our MP’s, while I agree that a sum in excess of $140,000 for a back bencher far to high I have to say that the sum we pay our PM ($390,000) is laughable.

The PM’s salary should be a lot higher and the backbench MP’s salary a lot lower.

Having said all that I do think that Key could and should refuse this increase on behalf of ALL MP’s, it is not right when so many Kiwi’s are hurting for our MP’s (of all parties) to be sticking their noses deeper into the tax payers pockets.
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November 20, 2008 11:56am
jacob van hartog

Well of course under national NO military equipment at all was bought in 9 years.

Oh yes they did kill the option on the 3rd frigate.

While the army rode around in canvas backed trucks like they were from Rwanda.

Correction , now I remember, they did buy a french air defence missile , worked Ok, but they didnt buy the extra gear to go with so you didnt end up shooting down your aircraft or helicopters.

Under Labour , there is a completely new Navy ( since labour ordered the 2 frigates as well) as well as a new helicopter fleet on the way. New jet transport/cargo planes to replace the clapped out 727- which could only be relied on to get Shipley to Christchurch late on Friday night. ( Helen used the prop King Airs for domestic flights)

The Army has new radios, and decent protection for the troops with the LAVS- national had junked the Scorpions and refused to upgrade the M113s inspite of their well known steering problems.

Lt Mapp wont last long, just like last time he was defence spokesman for about 3 weeks
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November 20, 2008 12:08pm
dime

I recall something about F-16’s.. deal scraped by Helen… our very, very,very good friends the US not letting us sell the Sky Hawks..

Basically, a Mig-28 could fly into auckland and just bomb away, we would have no chance of intercepting.

Lucky we will in a benign enviroment.

OR we could have a plane heading towards a building.. and just watch it crash..
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November 20, 2008 12:12pm
sbk

“and decent protection for the troops with the LAVS”.Jacob, with no “air cover” they are as much use as sitting ducks.
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November 20, 2008 12:27pm
Viking2

and meanwhile our police use cellphones to stop the bad B——ts from listening in to their comms. Know where I’d rather spend the money.
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November 20, 2008 12:28pm
baxter

BRUV:………..Having said all that I do think that Key could and should refuse this increase on behalf of ALL MP’s,……………………..He gives all his to charity and has done since he entered Parliament……Perhaps PHIL could set the example.
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November 20, 2008 12:38pm
llew

OR we could have a plane heading towards a building.. and just watch it crash.

Um… that’s happened in places where they do have an airforce too
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November 20, 2008 12:55pm
dime

it has? SHIT!

difference is.. a 737 good do a scenic flight around the harbour, maybe a couple of loops… maybe fly over our airforce.. then crash into the sky tower..
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November 20, 2008 12:57pm
dad4justice

Talking about birds llew how are our Sky Hawks going, gone or just rat nests??? All ready to go. Someone fire a rubber band into the air.
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November 20, 2008 12:58pm
Johnboy

John Key is getting to meet the Queen next week. I wonder if she will prefer his company to that of his predecessor?
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November 20, 2008 1:03pm
PhilBest

# dime (710) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 2 Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 11:28 am

“Turpin – I can tell they like us by the way they fingerprint me at LAX and scan my eye… as my friend from Aussie waltzes on through!

Helen did damage to our relationship with the US.

We are lucky in that we are basically a white, english speaking nation and their arent that many left! We are also lucky that the US only bomb brown people.”

I agree with all that, except the snide bit about the brown people. The Serbians were not brown people last time I looked.
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November 20, 2008 1:07pm
side show bob

Very good Dime LoL. Perhaps if the enemy gave us four weeks notice we could get together a good group of duck shooters and take pot shots at it, mind you if it was in bloody Auckland we would have to us steel shot, can’t upset the Melons.
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November 20, 2008 1:09pm
PhilBest

# dime (710) Vote: Add rating6 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

“I recall something about F-16’s.. deal scraped by Helen… our very, very,very good friends the US not letting us sell the Sky Hawks..

Basically, a Mig-28 could fly into auckland and just bomb away, we would have no chance of intercepting.

Lucky we will in a benign enviroment.

OR we could have a plane heading towards a building.. and just watch it crash…”

This isn’t my original idea, but I seem to remember a witty letter to the editor a while back suggesting we send Helen Clark up on her broom……..
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November 20, 2008 1:11pm
dime

johnboy – to make things right, john is going to wear a dress 😛
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November 20, 2008 1:17pm
PhilBest

But seriously, why leave our worries at a MiG or even a hijacked jet airliner?

We’re lucky that the smugglers of desperate immigrants haven’t figured what a soft touch NZ is, they could land whole boatloads in broad daylight without us being able to do stop them. And what about the Straights of Malacca Pirates working out what a soft touch we are? (The Somali ones are getting all the news at the moment). A few speedboats of heavily-armed Al Quaeda/Jemaah Islamiya types could bring NZ coastal shipping to a standstill.

I suggested before when we had a Labour Govt shutting down free speech prior to elections, that a few wealthy types should fly up and down the length of NZ dropping leaflets out of long range Lear Jets (flying out of Easter Island or somewhere appropriately remote) to make the Labour Govt look ridiculous. They might have suddenly got interested in having jet fighters again…….!

I have long expected that something will happen eventually, as long as we remain undefended to the extent we are, that will make us look ridiculous, even if we are lucky enough not to suffer serious harm.
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November 20, 2008 1:22pm
PhilBest

# getstaffed (2564) Vote: Add rating 3 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 10:20 am

“Good to see Helen Clark and Michael Cullen take a pay cut”

“I think a quick audit of their finances would show healthy passive income streams. Almost certainly more healthy than 9 years ago……..”

I hope they lose squillions on their investment properties, after presiding over the most massive property bubble NZ has ever experienced.
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November 20, 2008 1:27pm
philu

“..# sbk (49) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 20th, 2008 at 12:27 pm

“and decent protection for the troops with the LAVS”.Jacob, with no “air cover” they are as much use as sitting ducks..”

you just don’t get it with those lav’s..do you..?

..all that moaning about how they would be useless in the jungles of asia..no air cover..etc..

..they weren’t bought for that..

..they were bought for here…

..to help quell any civil unrest here..

..and for that..they are perfect..eh..?

..and the ‘no air cover’ shouldn’t be a problem ..eh..?

..unless you know more than me..last time i heard..

..the tewwowists in the ureweras don’t yet have an air wing..

..get with the game..!

..eh..?

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 20, 2008 1:36pm
llew

Talking about birds llew how are our Sky Hawks going, gone or just rat nests??? All ready to go. Someone fire a rubber band into the air.

Take deep breaths d4j. deep breaths. Inhale, exhale.

“I think a quick audit of their finances would show healthy passive income streams. Almost certainly more healthy than 9 years ago……..”

I hope they lose squillions on their investment properties, after presiding over the most massive property bubble NZ has ever experienced.

Even if they do, their superannuation package after so long in parliament will be enough to make your eyes water.
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November 20, 2008 1:36pm
goodgod

goodgod – The Cabinet were sworn in yesterday! John is off to Peru. What would you prefer to happen today? an emergency sitting of parliment?

Get back to us in 100 days.

Not much point going to Peru when the direction has already been set via coalition agreements. Just get to work. Only thing meetings in Peru can do is void the agreements so far.

Get back to me in 100 days and I’ll show you a government that hasn’t changed anything important. The attitude of new government is set. It was set as far back as the compromise fiasco over S59. That began around march 2006 -bit longer than 100 days.
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November 20, 2008 1:43pm
Inventory2

One swallow doesn’t make a summer, but the Black Caps are off to a great start in Brisbane – Australia 23 for 3

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/11/great-start-from-black-caps.html
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November 20, 2008 2:14pm
philu

then of course..there are the wannabe war-mongerers in national..

(..remember simon ‘all the way with bush!’ power..?

..and his mewlings/pleas to go to war..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/will-john-key-satisfy-the-cold-war-warriors-in-his-partyand-join-in-on-obamas-first-follyand-wtf-are-our-soldiers-actually-doing-in-afghanistan/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 20, 2008 2:15pm
big bruv

Phool.

The left no longer frame the debate, there are those of us who still believe we should have joined the yanks in Iraq and we will not let you pricks claim that you speak for all of NZ on this issue.

By the way, how is the job hunting going?
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November 20, 2008 2:26pm
Johnboy

“By the way, how is the job hunting going?”

Hey he obviously knows heaps about horticulture so if he has small hands and can use a dunny correctly there is a job for him in the vinyards.
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November 20, 2008 2:35pm
Manolo

“By the way, how is the job hunting going?”

Well, it’s going nowhere. Whoar is too busy in the kitchen handling the ovens. Hard-earned money will have to wait another ten (or twenty) years.
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November 20, 2008 2:53pm
s.russell

The policy decisions Labour made about what kind of defence equipment we should buy were generally good. LAVs, inshore patrol and multi-role vessels, new jet transport/cargo planes etc, are what our armed forces need to do useful stuff, as opposed to jet fighters which look flash but are basically useless for NZ purposes. However, specific decisions, eg what type of LAVs to buy seem to have been botched badly.
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November 20, 2008 2:55pm
dime

goodgod – you dont think Peru is a good place for John to meet world leaders? would you prefer he visit their countries one by one?
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November 20, 2008 3:53pm
PhilBest

Philu, that is one seriously pot-befuddled outlook about the LAV’s. If the government of H1 and H2 bought them with “crowd control” in mind, I very much doubt they had Te Quaeda/ the “Urewera Tewwowists” in mind. THOSE benighted folk were NEVER going to get the NZ “street” rising up along with them.
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November 20, 2008 4:24pm
PhilBest

Just like Lefties everywhere like to dream that Fidel or Che had “the street” on their side.

Barf. Chunder. Spew. Just a clue: when you’ve got “the street” on your side, it is not necessary to murder more of your fellow citizens than anybody else in history.
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November 20, 2008 4:27pm
sbk

PhilU? says ..they were bought for here…

..to help quell any civil unrest here.. !!!………… , Hey Dude this says a lot about you.Eh ?.Actually volumes…………..
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November 20, 2008 8:18pm
side show bob

Please tell me Phil why there would be civil unrest under a liarbore government, I was delirious with happiness with their rule. Sadly the booze has worn off.
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November 20, 2008 10:09pm
dime

philbest – the snide bit about the US bombing brown people is just me ripping off Bill Hicks 🙂
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November 20, 2008 10:35pm
grumpyoldhori

Dime, you seem confused, the yanks do have LAVs, they call them Strykers.
As for an airforce, what you want those F16s so they can fire a few rounds in front of a fishing boat ?
Oh, do the yanks have constant air patrols over New York etc ?
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November 20, 2008 10:37pm
dime

grumpy – i believe they can scramble jets over NY in about 15 mins..

why do i want F16’s?? cause we should have some air capability? rather than letting aussie pick up the tab.

i could fly a cessna loaded with dynamite over auckland city for an hour and no one good do shit.

i wasnt the one talking about LAV’s?
i just said it would be nice to buy some stuff from the US as opposed to euro trash.
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November 20, 2008 10:47pm
reid

The point about having a front line military jet strike force is that they can be upgraded to the latest weapons systems if a threat heaves into view. For example if China gets aggressive we COULD have been instantly upgraded to F22 Raptors.

Most people don’t get the simple fact that when Hulun disbanded the strike force we didn’t lose some old planes we lost all the institutional knowledge that goes into things such as mission planning, pilot training, avionics, armaments, inter-force operability etc etc etc.

All arms of the military now suffer because for example army people can’t practice directing ground fire and navy people can’t practice defending against air attack.

We lost a whole hell of a lot in that idiotic move which was pointless as such a force was extremely good value for money. It’s significant that it was almost the very first action of her execrable regime. Her very first idiotic and highly damaging decision.

It was bad enough when the lefty idiots convinced the reef-fish idiots that it was a good idea to declare ourselves nuclear free. Our spare parts bill went through the roof. There were many other consequences. For nothing. Not one single nuclear weapon has ever been scrapped because of this stupid policy. People who don’t understand things military really should stay right out of commenting on it and that applies to almost every single lefty I can think of perhaps apart from Mike Moore.

It’s regretable that you can’t force those individuals who take such dangerous decisions to be the first to take the consequences of their action. Perhaps if that were the policy it would focus their minds but I fear they’ve already lost them so that would be rather pointless.
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November 20, 2008 11:03pm
reid

“grumpy – i believe they can scramble jets over NY in about 15 mins..”

Yeh they could do that before 911 too dime. In fact they did it over 600 times across US airspace in the year preceeding 911. Funny how they missed doing it on the one day that really counted, three times, isn’t it.
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November 20, 2008 11:06pm
dime

reid – things have changed .. they will actually shoot the planes down now.

i dont think we would be upgraded to raptors.. maybe the JSF… id settle for that!
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November 20, 2008 11:18pm
reid

“reid – things have changed .. they will actually shoot the planes down now.”

Yeh but they didn’t even intercept them dime, even they had deviated from their flight plans for 30-40 minutes. Violating standard NORAD procedure which as I said, operated over 600 times in the 12 months preceeding. How very odd. Maybe if NORAD were having an exercise on the very same day involving scenarios relating to hijacked planes, that might explain it. Some people have said that’s exactly what happened. Nothing else really does.

F-22, JSF or the SU-37. All are killers, in the good sense of the word. Don’t overlook the Russian technology, it is extremely good.
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November 20, 2008 11:52pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Who else thinks it is farcical that Helen Clark will get some plum job at the UN. Any role requiring the approval of the US has no chance. The State Department has a long memory. Why would they OK the person that was responsible for the Anti-Nuclear legislation? I think they would rather see Helen Clark starve first before they approved any such position at the UN.

I’m quite happy to see Helen Clark get it in the neck from all and sundry in Parliament. It’s her choice to stick around. If she wants to hang around in parliament collecting her taxpayer funded salary until a role of substance internationally is offered then she will have a long wait. When is she finally going to crack, have a cry Waitangi style and bottle it from parliament? Everyone just wants her to disappear into obscurity.

How many post-Christmas resignation will there be from the Labour party?
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November 21, 2008 12:27am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

dime says on November 20th, 2008 at 10:47 pm:

i could fly a cessna loaded with dynamite over auckland city for an hour and no one good do shit.

Or you could hire a 767 freighter aircraft filled to the brim with aviation fuel and fly it straight into Helen Clark’s home in Mt Eden while she is there moping around the house wondering what to do with her life. There would be nothing left of Helen Clark but a black stain where she, her house and the neighborhood block of Labour voting supporters use to live. Just make sure you don’t hit Mt Eden stadium as that wouldn’t be cricket. 😉

Of course we wouldn’t do that because terrorism is a crime. The Urewera 17 appear to be challenging that hypothesis though.
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November 21, 2008 12:44am
reid

The way I see it OECD, Hulun is a political animal who sold her soul for the sake of power long ago. The gang who control the UN pretend to care about people but they’re some of the most manipulative underhanded souls on the planet.

Hulun has done a lot that certain people in the UN will be respectful of, for example the social engineering anti-family legislation she passed is a vital cog in those people’s agendi. A much more obvious cog is of course AGW and that’s precisely why Hulun HAD to pass the ETS before she got booted out.

It doesn’t matter whether it gets modified by the Nats, it now forms part of her UN-CV. You watch. I bet she wants to outdo Mary Robinson (ex-Irish PM) in terms of the UN job she eventually gets. That will be interesting.

BTW, re: your comment on the State Dept and the anti-nuke legislation. Bear in mind that the govt of the US like the govts of some other nations (e.g. Israel is another shining example), often acts quite against the interests of their own people. (Key words are “often” and “against.”)

A current example in the US is the Congressional stalling of the bailout of the US automakers. They’re only asking for $35 billion. This is a drop compared to what was given to AIG. If GM, Ford and Chrysler fail, the flow on effects are monstrous. Not only from all the downstream industries that then fail but also the people currently dependent on their pension plans. And Congress is moaning about taking this relative pittance from the $700 billion bailout package.

Re: that bailout package, at the time Congress was considering it, Bernanke promised it would go to banks to encourage lending and that it would be transparent and it was passed on that basis. Immediately, transparency ceased and persistent rumours have arisen that it is in fact going to the big banks not for use in new lending but to buy out smaller banks. Remember, this is taxpayer money. Bernanke has done little to discount those rumours and the Fed has been extremely secretive about its disposition when it promised Congress it would be doing quite the opposite.

All I’m saying is that while there are many good and true individuals operating within the govt machinery and this is in my view the vast majority, that doesn’t necessarily always mean that everything is just and true in the land of the free and the home of the brave. The facts are quite telling. Remember the Simpsons episode about the corruption in Congress? Believe it.
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November 21, 2008 12:57am
jcuknz

Ever since I read about the boom in remote controlled aircraft I have wondered if they might not be a replacement for the F16s. I’m sure the model aircraft clubs would be a source of skilled operators or various computer geeks with their x-boxes etc..

Today we read about the US Millitary striking into Pakistan and killing five civilians with a remote controlled aircraft.
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November 21, 2008 7:24am
PhilBest

dime (715) 1 0 Says:

November 20th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
“philbest – the snide bit about the US bombing brown people is just me ripping off Bill Hicks”

Apologies for misjudging you, dime; reading that post again, I follow you……
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November 21, 2008 8:50am
PhilBest

reid, you are too intelligent to buy into that stuff about “Sept 11 was an inside job”, surely?

It was utterly audacious what the Terrorists did. It was the sheer lack of imagination on the part of those involved with America’s security, that allowed it to happen; although the willingness of these particular types of Terrorist to suicide themselves in the course of their attacks, should have been taken into account.

Read Walid Phares book, “Future Jihad”. Basically, America’s whole field of intellectual study and training had been so utterly subverted by the “Hate America First” brigade in the Universities, that any security services field operative who had warned about an impending plot of that nature, stood to be disciplined for “Islamophobia”.

The CIA and the FBI and the other various security agencies have actually since 9/11 pulled their training systems back in-house and out of the hands of the allegedly expert Uni departments in disgust.

Believe it or not, even the Aussies are going through a spat right now, over Uni experts brought in to train THEIR counterterrorism people, feeding them all the “it’s all white Imperialists fault” bullshit.

The sheer gall of the “Long March Through The Institutions” now that it has practically reached its peak, knows no bounds. This is where the Commies get the last laugh. They didn’t need to win the Cold War, they had their Trojan Horse well established within the gates of the USA and the rest of the free world already.
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November 21, 2008 9:02am
PhilBest

Reid:

“……..Bear in mind that the govt of the US like the govts of some other nations (e.g. Israel is another shining example), often acts quite against the interests of their own people……..

“…….while there are many good and true individuals operating within the govt machinery and this is in my view the vast majority, that doesn’t necessarily always mean that everything is just and true in the land of the free and the home of the brave. The facts are quite telling…..”

Do YOU believe, Reid, that people in the US government who come from a Cultural Marxist/ “Long March Through The Institutions” background, are the main threat?

Do you think President Obama will be more inclined or less inclined, to “act in America’s interests” than past presidents? And his fellow travellers who will be appointed to plum positions now? Bear in mind that the US counterespionage apparatus is already utterly compromised, there are numerous military technology secrets that the Chinese have ripped off over the last 12 years or so, the rot in this direction always tending to have worsened under Democratic Presidents such as Carter and Clinton. The US’s repudiation of McCarthyism has gone too far in the other direction.

Or are you one of these people who believed that the real threat to America’s interests comes from some “future fascism” movement or some shadowy international cabal that takes in traditional American patriots like George W.? Who are the paranoids; people who think like that, or people who like me who are most worried about the whole Gramsci/Marcuse/Foucault Cultural Marxist weakening of the USA and the free west?
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November 21, 2008 9:16am
dime

phil – no worries, im usually very subtle HAHA

i’ll have a read of “Future Jihad”, sounds interesting.
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November 21, 2008 9:16am
Turpin

it is good reading.
I’d recommend
Jihad by Paul Fregosi – isbn 1-57392-247-1
and
Faith, Power and Territory by Patrick Sookhdeo – isbn 978-0-9547835-8-7
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November 21, 2008 9:33am

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