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October 25, 2008 11:21am by David Farrar

General Debate 25 October 2008

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General Debate

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Glutaemus Maximus

Kippenburger was brave and useless in Crete, and lost the Island to the Germans!

However it diverted some crack troops from Operation Barbarossa!

Every Cloud.

He always felt Churchill let him down.
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October 25, 2008 7:40pm
PhilBest

grumpyoldhori (325) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 1 Says:
October 25th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

“PhilBest, I have no problem with a market economy and a flat tax regime at all.
As long as we have a pure market economy with no farmers getting a handout of taxpayer money when they get a bit of damp on their land.
No corporate welfare for any companies, all university students to pay the full cost of their education, no bailout of banks, if they fail so be it.

But,you will notice that the Nats talk a great talk about how bad socialism is, but at the same time they are telling students that they can keep their interest free loans…..”

As Lee says, NOW WE AGREE ON SOMETHING.

Do you know Tim Rikiwhiri, GrumpyOldHori? I hope he is the new face of Maori politics.
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October 25, 2008 7:44pm
dad4justice

Sorry to be confused but is “Maori politics” like a magpie building a nest egg?
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October 25, 2008 7:46pm
Lee

No dad, its a magpie pissing away a nest because of blind political loyalty. Well that and the percentage of Maori who are professional welfare bludgers and don’t want their drug of choice being threatened by a National/Act government.
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October 25, 2008 7:53pm
PhilBest

AND, GrumpyOldHori,

“…..As for Maori, so the roads were paved with gold for Maori after the war with all that equality.
Would your idea of equality be a ex-serviceman being told, a rehab farm is not for the likes of you, or being asked to leave the lounge bar of a hotel because of his skin tone ?
You may want to remove those rose coloured specs……”

I admit, and in no way justify, that that kind of racism existed. That really WAS racism. I truly believe, though, that we could have repudiated that stuff WITHOUT wrecking Maori family structure and getting a serious gang problem and creating a grievance industry and getting “Te Quaeda”. THAT is the fault of Gramsci and Marcuse and all the other “long march through the institutions” cultural marxist quislings. I have said several times before, that the Maori Battalion and Sir Apirana Ngata and Sir Peter Buck and the magnificent patriarchs and matriarchs of Maoridom in their era, would be spinning in their graves if they could see what socialism has done to their people.

Seriously, if you can, get hold of Tim Wikiriwhi, Libertarianz Maori affairs spokesman, and ask him about all this. He has written some superb stuff on these issues.

Sorry, I spelled his name wrong in the post above and noticed too late for editing. Tim WIKIRIWHI.

http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/?policy=maori_affairs
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October 25, 2008 7:55pm
wikiriwhis business

‘Do you know Tim Rikiwhiri, GrumpyOldHori? I hope he is the new face of Maori politics.’

Are you another Hamitonian Phil?

Were you at the delegates debate at the old age centre last week.

I expected to see Tim there, but no show. Odd for him.
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October 25, 2008 7:58pm
Lee

“THAT is the fault of Gramsci and Marcuse and all the other “long march through the institutions” cultural marxist quislings.”

Your a wise man Phil. Keep it up!
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October 25, 2008 7:59pm
grumpyoldhori

Lee, threaten you, LOL, nope, but unless you are my size I would not chuck the word coward around in public, not all Labour types are women.

Sarah Palin, christ, only a bunch of bible bashing god botherers would believe she is ready for prime time.
You seem to have this very odd idea that the Nats are a right wing party, they are not, they are a bunch of those wicked liberals who are further to the left than the Democrats are,
The nearest thing to the Republicans in NZ is the National Front, they share the same ideals except for the religious bit.
So if you are dreaming of a sect based government in NZ, it will be a bloody long dream.
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October 25, 2008 8:00pm
wikiriwhis business

Damned interesting; compelling actually.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/hard-times/?wpisrc=newsletter

I find this hard to swallow. (Esp because G. Bush wouldn’t be impressed, because if he was, he would say “I’m very impressed about this!)

Why? Because a bank in Iowa, Colesburg to be exact, is completely unfazed about about the financial crisis sweeping the world and it’s busines as usual. This same bank in fact, survived the great depression and looks like doing the same again. The article discusses it’s strategies and its conservative financial approach, but client confidence seems to say a lot in this case. Instead of withdrawing and reacting predictably to the Wall St melt down, are borrowing and investing in their businesses same as normal.

This bank should now have the best reputation in not only america but the entire OECD. In fact, so awesome is this time hopnoured small institution, it reminds me of a small Gaulish village standing out against an evil empire…. and winning. it’s magic potion is buoyancy in the most oppresive monetary times and as with the original village, this one will have an outside emperor keenly eyeing it. You don’t stay healthy while everyone else is sinking and not attract interest from the unsavouries.

http://wikiriwhi.wordpress.com/
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October 25, 2008 8:02pm
dad4justice

“So if you are dreaming of a sect based government in NZ, it will be a bloody long dream”.

I thought we were all peasants under the Aunty Hell Sect Club? I dream a grumpy Maori gets a brain.
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October 25, 2008 8:05pm
Lee

“only a bunch of bible bashing god botherers would believe she is ready for prime time”

That would be me bud. I don’t “bash” my bible though. 🙂

And on,ly a deluded lefty fool would think Obama is ready. I mean get real, he has LESS experience than Sarah and he is running for the actual real job!!!

“the nearest thing to the Republicans in NZ is the National Front”

LOL!!! You just shot whatever shred of credibility you had. Unlike you I actually know something about the Republicans and in the NZ context they would be a cross between ACT and the Family Party.

The first Native American elected to the Senate was a Republican!

You truly are ignorant and deluded!

“So if you are dreaming of a sect based government in NZ”

You mean a National/ACT/Family Party coalition? Might be closer than you think! 🙂
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October 25, 2008 8:14pm
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter, you have been posting some very interesting links thank you. What are your regular sources? I look at the Wall Street Journal and Frontpage Magazine every day, Human Events and the Weekly Standard once a week (Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter). If you have another recommendation, I’d value it.”

You seem to have it pretty well covered Phil, although I would recommend Free Republic for a frequently updated news service/ forum. If anything is going down, the Freepers know of it and are usually streets ahead (timewise) of the mainstream media in analysis of current events. Drudge Report is also a good source. Newsbusters is excellent for exposing MM bias. ..and as I have said before, for the ultimate in clear thinking on topical conservatism, you cannot beat Mark Levin- Constitutional Lawyer and ex Ronald Reagan staffer. He’s the best value you will ever get. Download the daily audio of his show here at removethishttp://marklevinshow.com/audio/ or if you want, here’s a direct link to the download-

http://podloc.andomedia.com/dloadTrack.mp3?prm=2824xhttp://citadelcc.vo.llnwd.net/o29/network/Levin/MP3/levin10232008.mp3

BTW- I advise not to waste time with GOH. He’s not even a political animal really (as you can see from his confused perspective), just a childlike troll whose primary motivation is attention.
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October 25, 2008 8:16pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Richard Fuld is the epitome of everything that is wrong with the Far Right Capitalist system.

Even better if the States gets some hick, thick and over dressed Sarah Palin doll.

That will prove to me that Greed is not good!

However at least they are honestly corrupt, unlike the devious, machivellian socialists.

They aren’t interested in money, just power!
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October 25, 2008 8:19pm
Lee

“but unless you are my size I would not chuck the word coward around in public”

Size has nothing to do with it bud. I spent two years living in a swamp with gators and rattle snakes for friends, and most of the rest of my childhood on military bases where fighting was a way of life. Don’t throw around threats like “face to face” if you cannot back it up.
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October 25, 2008 8:21pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Ah Redbaiter were you in the ranks of the National Front to-day? Or the even more feral anti-racist bastards?

You are such a demented fuckwit tosspot. Any chance of a meet up?
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October 25, 2008 8:22pm
expat

Isnt there a special place for all this US political rhetoric and military history cock measuring?
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October 25, 2008 8:22pm
Lee

Thats me for tonight folks. Keep up the good fight!
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October 25, 2008 8:24pm
Lee

“Isnt there a special place for all this US political rhetoric and military history cock measuring?”

Te Papa?
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October 25, 2008 8:25pm
grumpyoldhori

PhilBest, wars we should support.
To surprise you I support NZ joining with the Aussies and maybe Fiji to send a Reinforced brigade to Afghanistan.
But if it happens people better realise there will be casualties, and we need to get the pay in our army up closer to what the Aussies pay.
A privates pay in NZ is a disgrace.
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October 25, 2008 8:45pm
expat

I was thinking Texas Lee.
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October 25, 2008 8:49pm
getstaffed

I’m really unphotogenic, but I’m not quite this bad!
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October 25, 2008 11:33pm
Duxton

grumpy: “As for Maori, so the roads were paved with gold for Maori after the war with all that equality.
Would your idea of equality be a ex-serviceman being told, a rehab farm is not for the likes of you, or being asked to leave the lounge bar of a hotel because of his skin tone ?”

So, who was in power then? Oh, that’s right, it was a Labour government. Led by the same men who refused to serve during WW1, and then sent the little Maori boys off to serve during WW2.
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October 26, 2008 8:22am
Duxton

Glutaemus @ 7.40pm.

Freyberg was in command on Crete. I don’t know that you can put any of the blame on Kippenberger. If anything, his performance enhanced his reputation, and certainly put him ahead of the other battalion commanders.

And the military assets used by thye germans to Crete (paratroopers, alpine troops, transport aircraft, and ships) wouldn’t have been used during Barbarossa anyway. I do acknowledge, however, that the Yugoslav, Greek and Cretan campaigns delayed Barbarossa for about three months. This, in turn, reduced the time the Germans had until the onset of the Russian winter in November 1941, and the attack on Pearl Harbor in December. Both of these sealed the fate of the Axis.
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October 26, 2008 8:33am
grumpyoldhori

Duxton, Labour were in power in 1950, you may want to check that ?
Oh, and he was asked to leave the lounge bar of a hotel in 56, again with the Nats in power.
Now I know this will be a surprise, but all those little horis who went overseas were volunteers.
A bit different to that EB mob who believe NZ owes them security with no effort on their part.

Crete, if the German invasion had been driven off, what then , all the ports were on the Northern side ?
Blame, sheet that home to the Brit high command in Cairo, they were the ones who advised Churchill that Crete was well stocked with dumps of ammo, food, fuel, weapons etc.
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October 26, 2008 10:43am
Glutaemus Maximus

Crete was a fiasco of Cairo making.

The biggest problem was a lack of radio/phone contact, either portable or fixed lines.

Hell even smoke signals or beacons would have been better than nothing.

Freybourg was adamant that there would be a seabourne invasion and left the critical airfield to the west pretty light on defences.

Kippenburger was in effect like all the battalion commanders acting under their own initiative. My verdict is not based on being there, rather on the comments of Anthony Beevoir. And other supporting material.

It was the diversion and loss of so many transport planes that made such a difference to the likes of Stalingrad.

Read AB’s book when I was in Crete early last month.
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October 26, 2008 10:57am
grumpyoldhori

Glutaemus Maximus, Freyberg was not, repeat not, the commander of the NZ Div. on Crete, he was in command of the whole show.
The biggest effect of the airfield being lost was when the 29th ? Batt pulled off Hill 27.
As for a light defences, a whole Battalion on hill 27 overlooking the airfield, why did they leave the hill ?
Hmm, if you were Freyberg and the Brit high command had advised you that there was no chance of an invasion by sea, would you have trusted their word ?
Remember these were the same people who had stated that Crete was well stocked.
And as it happens there was a invasion attempt that was halted by the Royal navy, but if they had missed them, what then ?
Too many of the battalion commanders were far too old and unfit.
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October 26, 2008 11:27am
grumpyoldhori

Glutaemus Maximus, an interesting book on Freyberg.

http://www.thenile.co.nz/books/Watty-McEwan/The-Salamanders-Brood/9780958264570/
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October 26, 2008 11:30am
Glutaemus Maximus

Freyberg has access to Enigma codes, and was confused by what to do.

The writing was on the wall when the British/Commonwealth mission to Athens proposed that the 5th Cretan Division be deployed to halt the Italian advance in NW Greece.

Freyberg was hamstrung by indecision.

Kippenberger had an opportunity to change the course of the action by going west with the Remnants of the NZ Division, Aussie formations and the Welsh!

The German Alpine Troops really didn’t like meeting elements of the Gurkahs, and the Glider tropps and paras really ran away when the Maori counter attacked at least 3 times.

According to AB, the bravest formation was Maori by a Country mile. The most tenacious were the various Aussies.

To be fair Maori also controlled the Ist beach evacuation very well, and with fairness and dignity.
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October 26, 2008 1:07pm
grumpyoldhori

And to be fair to the other battalions we have to remember that Maori reinforcements throughout the war came via a different stream, so they were rarely under strength in comparison with the other battalions.
Biggest Maori problem, lack of education for too many, it must have been interesting being in front of the Maori mortar crews at times 🙂
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October 26, 2008 2:02pm
Glutaemus Maximus

Especially if they got to thinking that they would stop a tank!

Incoming!
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October 26, 2008 2:13pm
expat

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4739991a13.html

Wayne Lachore – predictor of financial chaos

I’m sure he posts here and on interest.co.nz
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October 28, 2008 2:22am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

The NZ$ is getting hammered. How long now before it hits the US$0.39 mark?
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October 28, 2008 4:28am

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