General Debate 1 October 2008

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tknorriss

Here is my idea for a better form of Government, considering that National wants to hold a referendum on MMP. Interested in your comments.

The aim is to minimize the size of government and allow governments to get as much done as quickly as possible. New Zealand is only about the population of a moderate city on a world scale, so I think the amount of politicians we have here is just too much. I think the party that wins the election should have the democratic right to implement their policies without hindrance. This means a lot more can be implemented within the electoral cycle meaning voters can have more opportunity to assess the success or otherwise of the policies.

The key components are:

1. One democratically elected governing party filling say 10-20 identified critical roles.
2. No opposition parties
3. An independent overseeing body with the power to dissolve the government if it is misbehaving.

Here is how it would work.

1. At election time all parties would produce a fully costed policies. These would be lodged with the independent governing body (IGB).
2. The party that wins the election would fill the 10-20 critical roles. The ministers in these roles would then appoint what ever expertise they needed to assist in their roles. The cost of these appointments would need to be included in their costed policies that were promoted to voters.
3. If the government wished to alter the implimentation of its policies or change its policies to cope with unforseen circumstances, the government would need to apply to the IGB to get approval. If the IGB felt it was necessary, the IGB could insist on a public referendum. If the government attempted to make significant changes without gaining approval, the IGB could have the power to dissolve the government and call fresh elections.

I think this plan would get rid of a lot of the nonsense we have to endure now and allow government to operate a lot more efficiently and still preserve adequate safeguards. Your thoughts appreciated.
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October 1, 2008 8:21am
dave strings

With money so tight in the global wholesale market, increasingly so after the latest USA SNAFU, what do others think the chances are that “our” banks won’t be able to meet the roll-over/renewal demand coming to roost in the next six months?

IN the USA the banks lend long (25 year fixed mortgages are still very popular) but borrow short 6 monthly interbank is a long-term for this type of paper, which is why the local banks are so keen to sell the mortgages on to Freddie, Fannie, et al.. This wasn’t a problem here, where deposits used to cover mortgages until about five years ago. Now our houses are financed by lenders with no appetite for off-shore risk, even if the premium is a hundred or two PERCENT over local rates.

I think the Crash of ’09, foretold on one of the Carnegie-Melon university discussion webs, could hit this country in a big way. I wouldn’t like to think what that would mean if Dr. Cullen was still MinOfFinance.
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October 1, 2008 8:27am
dave strings

TK Norris
That sounds like the system they have in the USA, where the executive forms the cabinet and the capital decides whether to fund its ideas or not. Quite interesting.
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October 1, 2008 8:31am
Hunter

The Otago Daily Times is running an online poll: Should Maori electoral seats be abolished?
At 8.30 this morning the results were:

Yes – There’s no place for seats based exclusively on race
77% (150 votes)

No – they serve a useful purpose
23% (46 votes)
Total votes: 196

Not really a surpise, most NZers recognise that the Maori seats are a race based anachronism appropriate in the 1800s but not longer necessary under MMP in 2008.
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October 1, 2008 8:33am
Buggerlugs

Is the New Zealand Rugby Union the new Labour Party? Unable to organise a piss up in a brewery, flip-flopping, reactive, rudderless…all sounds very familiar. We just need corruption to make the picture complete!
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October 1, 2008 8:37am
bearhunter

Buggerlugs – I think the NZRU is possibly the only organisation in NZ that is even remotely as unpopular as the government.

Hunter, not sure if the Maori seats were ever “appropriate” given that they were instigated to limit Maori representation rather than protect it.
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October 1, 2008 8:44am
homepaddock

Who do we trust to run the country now things are getting gloomy – a couple of academic politicians who’ve led us backwards during the good times, or people with successful business experience?
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October 1, 2008 8:52am
Ross Miller

I was gobsmacked simply gobsmacked to note the news item that ACT, in the Law and Order Select Committee, voted against the Bill to ban the wearing of gang patches in Wanganui citing their liberterian principles and their belief this was an attack on individual freedoms.

Gueez Wayne, what PC crap from a Party that has as its election slogan “Zero tolerance for crime”. They have in one brilliant stroke managed to undermine their whole credibility. A city comes up with a local solution to a national problem and ACT does a Pontus Pilate.

Well, I guess if they want the votes of the Mongrel Mob, Black Power and other assorted scum they are going the right way about it. Would this have happened under Richard Prebble’s leadership? …. is the Pope a Protestant.
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October 1, 2008 9:07am
philu

“..Hunter (2) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 8:33 am

The Otago Daily Times is running an online poll: Should Maori electoral seats be abolished?
At 8.30 this morning the results were:

Yes – There’s no place for seats based exclusively on race
77% (150 votes)

No – they serve a useful purpose
23% (46 votes)
Total votes: 196

Not really a surpise, most NZers recognise that the Maori seats are a race based anachronism appropriate in the 1800s but not longer necessary under MMP in 2008.”

not really a surprise..coming from (scarily) white/racist southland..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 9:36am
philu

and close readers of kiwiblog would have noticed how attempts are being made to sheet responsibilty for the ‘crash’ ..

..down to the democrats..(!)..

(i know..!..i know..!.. i was gobsmacked by their ‘nerve’ too..!)

anyway..here is the needed rebuttal..

..showing their ‘spin’ to be factually inaccurate..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/did-liberals-cause-the-sub-prime-crisis/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 9:41am
alex Masterley

Er the ODT is printed in Otago, not Southland. While it may not be aparent to those in the north there is a distinct difference between otago and southland (and it’s not just the rugby teams).
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October 1, 2008 9:51am
Nefarious

I think I’ve found Labour’s new campaign song…

We care a lot about disasters, fires, floods and killer bees
We care a lot about the NASA shuttle falling in the sea
We care a lot about starvation and the food that Live Aid bought
We care a lot about disease, baby Rock, Hudson, rock, yeah!

We care a lot about the gamblers and the pushers and the geeks
We care a lot about the crack and smack and whack that hits the street
We care a lot about the welfare of all the boys and girls
We care a lot about you people cause we’re out to save the world

YEAH!

And it’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it

Oh yeah, DPF, any news on Winnocent’s returns being filed yesterday?

[DPF: Not yet – I am waiting for the returns to be placed on the Internet]
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October 1, 2008 9:58am
Ross Miller

Hi philu … welcome back from your burning at the stake earlier in the week. Was convinced some ‘gentle’ flaming wouldn’t damper your ardour and your commitment to arguing that white was black and defending the indefensible.

Actually we can go round in circles arguing who is responsible for the turmoil we are seeing/experiencing in the money/equity markets and end up where we atarted. We actually need to look forward to a solution which in the short term is likely to have some downside with countries/consumers having to learn to live within their income rather than binging on debt. I suspect the lesson will be painful for many.
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October 1, 2008 10:00am
philu

up here alex..southland is the south island..

(we are the northland)

..and that ‘white/racist’ appellation applies..

..all the way up to (white-flight) nelson..

eh..?

(with a huge ‘stain’ over christchurch..eh..?..

..ahh..!..christchurch..!..the parks..!..the racists..the junkies..!..the racist junkies..!..)

(leaving multi-cultural auckland..and travelling in the ‘white’ south island..can be quite the culture-shock..)

..and confirms new zealand is two countries..(and that separation isn’t a maori pakeha divide..

..but a progressive/reactionary divide..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 10:04am
Colonel Masters

Last night’s major contestant on Who Wants to be Millionaire? did very well. So many correct answers with what appeared to be little effort.

And so nice to hear that she would be giving some of the winnings from the state run quiz show to her mother who works as a scientific analyst in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

[DPF: Yeah she was great]
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October 1, 2008 10:10am
Hunter

philu supports race based seats in parliament and he is calling me racist? der

For your information, I am part Maori, and I am happy that Maori issues would be adequately represented via MMP, so no need for the race based seats. I think you will find that this view is held widely accross NZ, not just in Otago.

Maori are as good as any other NZers, we dont need patronising racist favouratism thanks.
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October 1, 2008 10:13am
pdm

Hunter – I think the Herald had a poll on the Maori seats a couple of days ago with similar results.
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October 1, 2008 10:22am
philu

“..We actually need to look forward to a solution which in the short term is likely to have some downside with countries/consumers having to learn to live within their income rather than binging on debt. I suspect the lesson will be painful for many..”

i agree..

..and for the last couple of days i have been hunting out alternative solutions to the massive payout/(only) short-term solution.

and they can be found at that scurrillous/contrarian rag i edit..whoar..

(and how about all those/that wedge/tranche of short-term mortgages here due to roll over in the next year..?..whoar..!

..and these on properties now worth substantially less than when purchased..whoar..!

..and only heading further south in value..and with still a long way to drop..whoar..!

..this is our our-sub-prime crisis..

..and will see families out on the street..

..before too long..

..and how about the ‘retail trade..’..?

they are just all hanging out/praying for a sheet-anchor of a ‘good’ christmas..

(i doubt it..eh..?..

..this meltdown should be quite advanced by then..eh..?)

..double-whoar..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 10:29am
kiwipolemicist

Ross Miller

I agree with ACT when they say that the anti-gang law is an attack on personal freedoms. It is a bad law that even the police are opposed to, and it sets a very dangerous precendent.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/anti-gang-laws-are-contrary-to-natural-justice-and-a-violation-of-civil-liberties/
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October 1, 2008 10:38am
alex Masterley

I am “up here” Phil, and you have just demonstrated the truth of my favourite aphorism. “Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups”
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October 1, 2008 10:40am
Colonel Masters

In addition to the General Debate threads (which used to be really great), can we please have a separate “philu” thread?

I just can’t face wading through all the drivel. Any interesting topics on here just get swamped within minutes and die.
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October 1, 2008 10:47am
philu

i actually wasn’t ‘assuming’ your actual geographical location there..alex..

..so..

..a bit of your ‘Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups”..

coming back to bite you..there..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 10:50am
philu

just lie back..

..and think of england..

..colonel..

..phil (whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 10:53am
fizzleplug

Hmm, I see that the Standard website is still causing conniptions with virus checkers. Any chance it could be removed from the list of must-read blogs until this is resolved by the hamsters over there?
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October 1, 2008 10:54am
dave strings

PhilU

please go back to cut and paste practice while you can!

The next government, be it Labour or National, is going to have you off welfare and into something resembling income earning work faster than you can pronounce and spell Whore in hindustani.

…eh!!!!!…………………………………………
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October 1, 2008 11:05am
Chthoniid

Fwiw, I’m also part-Maori (Ngati Hori Heretaunga, of Ngati Kahungunu). I’m not on the Maori roll, and of my siblings, only one is.

An objective assessment of the Members of Parliament show that there are tangata whenua represented in all the major parties. This representation is significant enough not to merit special seats. We have had a Treaty settlement process – that has operated for years- with a buy-in by both major parties. That would be unattainable in a deeply racist society.

The popularity of the Maori seats owes far more to realpolitik than ensuring Maori representation. It has suited some people in Government to perpetuate them, albeit for different reasons over time.
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October 1, 2008 11:05am
Ramsay

Helen Clark has always said she does not have children. Soooo…….. can anyone tell me why Labour is using an image that looks like Helen Clark’s daughter on their billboards?
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October 1, 2008 11:06am
philu

this one is also pretty interesting..

(and a map of a ‘way forward’..for banks..

..after our sub-prime dramas are played out..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/why-are-spanish-banks-in-such-rude-health-when-ours-are-ailing/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 11:12am
Ross Miller

kiwipolemicist (81) October 1st, 2008 at 10:38 am says “I agree with ACT when they say that the anti-gang law is an attack on personal freedoms” …. well old son, therein lies the difference between you and me and ACT and National. If ACT wants to campaign in support of gang freedoms then go to it but be prepared to accept the electoral fallout.

Question… would you also support the rights of say the one or two misguided individuals who make up the NZ Nazi Party to parade in front of the Auckland Synagogue in full regalia with placards saying Hilter was right?

Because if you do then you guys have really lost the plot completely.
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October 1, 2008 11:15am
philu

ross..any anti-gang law would be a return to the bad old days of police abuses under the old ‘consorting’ laws..

(and of course laws like this are attack on personal freedoms..

..how can they not be..?..)

and your synagogue argument is a straw-man’..

you are comparing apples and oranges..

..one is ‘consorting’..the other is ‘offensive behaviour’..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 11:20am
Madeleine

“Helen Clark has always said she does not have children. Soooo…….. can anyone tell me why Labour is using an image that looks like Helen Clark’s daughter on their billboards?”

False advertising. Happens every election year.
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October 1, 2008 11:22am
WraithX

Ross Miller: Frankly – yes. If you don’t allow the Nazis their rights to free speech, whose free speech do we take next? We can’t trust governments to make the decision for us – so the safest thing for all of us is to allow freedom of speech for all unless it results in physical harm of another person. The problem with gangs will not be solved by banning patches – it will be solved by bulldozing their gang houses, confiscating money from them, and a variety of other methods which are already possible under the law. Labour (and our police) seem to have a horror of using the laws we already have to fix problems and instead pass new pointless laws that do nothing but give the appearance of doing something.
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October 1, 2008 11:34am
PhilBest

Philu, do your arguments about causes of the market bubble have anything to sat about “Smart Growth” type limitations on housing development driving prices up in the first place? And pricing poorer people out of the housing market altogether?

Then of course, you get the government involved in “getting people into housing” again by getting involved in financing; NOT, of course, by freeing up the restrictions that cause the problem in the first place. Then who loses the most when the crash comes; who loses their houses first? Not to mention the cost to the taxpayer regardless of whether a bailout of a crash, or of subsidising poorer people into grossly overpriced homes and taking “public equity” in those homes……(Bleah, Communism by stealth).

Thomas Sowell wrote an essay about this years ago entitled “Green ‘Disparate Impact'”. You Green types are just typical Stalinists, you’ve got utopian ideas that actually hurt the very people you pretend to care about the most.
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October 1, 2008 11:36am
Gooner

Ross – why does a 2% party occupy so much of your headspace? Banning gangs is stupid and won’t work. If your answer to society’s problems is to enact bans then that speaks volumes for National’s way of thinking. I’m more interested in a party and government doing what’s right, not what’s popular.

I presume if you’re in favour of banning gangs then you’ll be voting Labour.
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October 1, 2008 11:41am
philu

this is going to rattle your dags..

..but a silver lining i see from the gummint taking ownership of vast tracts of housing..

(as will happen here too..this thing/meltdown is only just beginning..)

..is that that housing stock can be used to house the poor/most in need..

..sorta like a huge ‘state house’ program..

..but not having to build them first….

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 11:45am
fizzleplug

Paragraphs, motherfucker. Learn to use them.
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October 1, 2008 11:54am
gd

the pollies in the USA look like they are all members of the “wherethefuckarewe” tribe
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October 1, 2008 11:57am
WraithX

philu: but that is what all those nice high-rise buildings are for – like the ones in Freemans Bay in Auckland and the ones dotted around Wellington.
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October 1, 2008 12:17pm
s.russell

MMP has been very effective in increasing Maori representation in Parliament. It has been reported that 22 of the present 121 MPs (18%) have some Maori ancestry (though only a bit in some cases), which is even more than the Maori share of the population (approx 14%). There are Maori MPs in National, Labour, NZ First, the Greens and (naturally) the Maori Party.

Prior to MMP it was rare to see Maori MPs from anywhere other than the Maori seats. Those who counted were often people like Clem Simich – technically Maori but not so you would know it without genealogical records.

Those who oppose both MMP and the Maori seats might want to think carefully about the implications of doing both.

It should also be noted that there is a big difference between having a brown face, and representing Maori. A Maori MP elected in a general seat is beholden to an electorate that is typically 80-90% non-Maori. They are thus significantly limited in how far they can go in standing up for specifically Maori causes. The same is true to a large extent for list MPs. They are constrained by their party’s tolerance for such advocacy, and most parties (mindful that 86% of the electorate is non-Maori) are going to be pretty careful about that.

Only the MPs from Maori electorates (and especially the Maori Party MPs) have a strong base from which they represent Maori interests first and foremost. Consider the Foreshore and Seabed legislation. Only an MP representing a Maori seat could stand up against that without committing political suicide.

Now, whether or not you agree with that law, what is the point of having Maori MPs if they cannot represent Maori on something that Maori care about so much?

Now, some people will object to thist on the basis that all MPs should first and foremost represent the interests of all New Zealanders. But he whole point of a democracy is that MPs DO represent different interests and come together in Parliament to reconcile those.

Also is this really any different to the MP for (say) Napier standing up for the interests of Napier?
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October 1, 2008 12:20pm
philu

“..like the ones in Freemans Bay in Auckland..”

they were privatised/sold-off..

(some privatising of societies’ assets/rightwing bastards did the dirty deed

..national party..

..as i understand it..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 12:44pm
baxter

T>K> NORRIS…………Your proposal is far superior to the present system. I can’t see that three year periods in opposition achieves anything at all. We also have the situation where if Liabour is turfed out almost every position of influence in the Public Service has been infiltrated by highly placed party sympathisers on lucrative long term contracts.
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October 1, 2008 1:04pm
Hunter

s.russell: I agree that removing both the Maori seats and MMP would be a backward step, although I do think it is time for a review of how MMP works. Plenty of room for improvement there. If we follow your logic, then we should also have asian seats in parliament, farmer seats, union seats, female seats………… Where does it stop? You are correct, MPs in normal electorate seats have to balance the interests of all their constituency, that is called demoncracy. But under MMP we also have list MPs that do not have the same constraint.

So what is your rationale for suggesting that it is appropriate to pick one interest group out, Maori, and solve the problem you have identified for them, but not for all the other interest groups? Perhaps you think the interests of Maori are more important than the interests of other NZers? If so, then I guess you subscribe to the view that we are all equal, its just that some of us are more equal than others? I don’t, we may be different in our cultures, but none of us are more important that the other when it comes to having the right to participate in a democracy.
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October 1, 2008 1:05pm
Chthoniid

On the seabed legislation-
“Only an MP representing a Maori seat could stand up against that without committing political suicide.

Now, whether or not you agree with that law, what is the point of having Maori MPs if they cannot represent Maori on something that Maori care about so much?”

I recall that in fact, the Labour Maori MPs representing these seats, were pretty much made to toe the party line. They went back to their maraes and told their people ‘thanks for blindly giving us your votes election after election but we’ve decided to screw you out of the legal right to go to court anyway’.

Hooray for the Maori seats.

The public in this country is permitted to make input on legislation, and Maori interest groups frequently do so. I had some peripheral involvement with for instance, Maori submissions on the (languishing) Marine Reserves Bill. Maori electorate seats do not have some virtuous quality that is not (likely) already catered for with MMP and the normal business of select committee submissions.
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October 1, 2008 1:16pm
freethinker

tknorriss (10) Vote:
What you are syaing I think is we need a method to control the worst excesses of the current system but the changes you suggest which I accept may achieve this may create new & unexpected problems. Keeping the current system and introducing Binding citizens initiated referendums would I believe address most of the problems of MMP being legislative changes and MPs that do not have the support of the electorate making such matters subject to acceptance by default or overturn/initiation by referendum. Imagine the change to the legislators thought processes and treatment of the electorate if they were aware that termination may the reward for attempting to thwart the electors wishes – I doubt Cullen would have lasted a term with Helen and the cabinet joining him if they supported his unpopular policies on tax and of course there can be no court appeal or retrospective legislation to a referendum except reversal by referendum – I can’t wait but fear I will not see it!
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October 1, 2008 1:21pm
kiwipolemicist

Ross Miller said:

“Question… would you also support the rights of say the one or two misguided individuals who make up the NZ Nazi Party to parade in front of the Auckland Synagogue in full regalia with placards saying Hilter was right?”

Yes I would, provided that they did not initiate or threaten to initiate violence against property or person.

Why? Because simply *saying* something stupid is not a crime. If you accept government regulation of free speech because you do not agree with what someone says you must also accept it when the government regulates your free speech because someone does agree with what you say.

Preventing the Nazis from speaking freely would be no different to what Helen has done with the Electoral Finance Act.

http://www.kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com
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October 1, 2008 1:55pm
big bruv

Crime up and according to King thats a good thing!……FOR FUCK SAKE !!!!!!!!!!!!

When will the media take this duplicitous bitch to task over the rising crime rate in NZ, she simply cannot be allowed to get away with such blatant lies.
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October 1, 2008 2:04pm
philu

i think you will find..large sibling..

..that we now have a much higher reporting rate/lower tolerance to..

..men giving their wives/partners ‘the bash’..

..thus higher figures in that area weigh the result..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 1, 2008 2:08pm
grumpyoldhori

A question for you true blue Nat types, should the Nats keep on planning to
drop the cuzzy seats this term if they need those hories to form a coalition ?

Or should the Nats be pure and stay in opposition ?

Hunter, try a bit of fun, ask a hori Nat MP if the Maori seats should be
dropped, funny that they dive for cover on that issue.
One does notice that the same said hori Nat MPs are keen to be seen
on the marae, one wonders why ?
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October 1, 2008 2:49pm
markm

not sure if this is the right forum to use .
I have twice tried to go on the standard blog in the last 4 days from my office and home computer.
Both times my virus programme has gone crazy fending off trojan horses and other virus.
Is this some left wing attempt to control peoples computers.

Has any one else had this experience ?
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October 1, 2008 2:58pm
alex Masterley

As it happens it has happened to me, and it meant that my computer guy had to spend a bit of time (and my money) getting rid of the things to get it up and running again. It also meant I had no computer on my desk for 24 hours so got through a load of work.
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October 1, 2008 3:03pm
Hunter

Hi grumpyoldhori

I dont think the Nats have ever planned to drop the seats this term, and I have heard the Maori Party say that the Nats policy on the Maori seats wouldnt be a barrier to a coalition this year because they (the Moari Party) are focussed on what a coalition partner (or treaty partner as they call it) will do in the next term to help Maori.

Perhaps someone from the Nats can help, am I correct that your policy is to “Start a process in 2014 to review the need for the seats” because the historic treaty settlement process should be completed by then? It sounded pretty reasonable to me.

By the way, as a part Maori, I am not too keen on that term – hori. Sounds a bit offensive to me.

As for the Maori members of the National Party, I think they want to be talking to the people they represent. And as it is increasingly likely that they will be in Government soon I expect that Maori on the marae will be keen to talk to them.
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October 1, 2008 4:06pm
PhilBest

Philu, Housing NZ is as we speak, disposing of blocks of flats because their numerous “clients” who are waitlisted for stand-alone houses DON’T WANT TO LIVE IN BLOCKS OF FLATS……….
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October 1, 2008 8:00pm
fishbowl

I was polled last night by Roy Morgan… a normal Political poll, am I enrolled, do I usually vote, about how I was going to vote, economic confidence, then statistical info like household income and no of kids, and then…. Name and address… pardon… I am not giving my name and addres after I have told you my political preferences, household income… This was all from a Roy Morgan Sydney call centre

I was told it was standard proceedure for Roy Morgan to ask for people’s name so you can go into a draw … I didn’t want the draw but no name no poll info is recorded… I hate to think what they actually do with this info…

DPF – please tell me this is illegal or at least discouraged by reputable polling organisations such as yours.

[DPF: It is up to respondents as to what info they give polling companies. It would be a huge breach of ethics for the polling company to pass your personal details onto any client. It does seem unusual if they require a name in order for your responses to count – that is highly unusual.

Sometimes a client will supply a polling company with a list of names and numbers, and so you will be asked for a specific person.]
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October 1, 2008 8:50pm
lloydois

O-bam-a! O-bam-a! O-bam-a!

Intrade Real Time Quotes

Obama 63.8
McCain 34.8

It’s not even a contest anymore. A landslide waiting to happen….unless of course Sarah discovers a sharp tack.
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October 1, 2008 10:41pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Plenty of easy money to be made on a McCain win.
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October 1, 2008 11:26pm
lloydois

I’ve been thinking. Seeing as we’ve just had the worst President in history I think it would be a great idea to elect a President who has absolutely no fucking idea as to what’s happening in the world.

Sarah Palin would be perfect don’t you think? No idea what the question is so it really doesn’t matter what the answer is.

The best thing McCain could do right now would be to abdicate. Palin is the future (hell yeh, what’s NOT to like).

I’m sure Reagan would approve. He must be looking down with a wry smile on his face.

The revolution is almost complete.
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October 1, 2008 11:45pm
tom hunter

I think it would be a great idea to elect a President who has absolutely no fucking idea as to what’s happening in the world

Judging by the polls Americans are about to.
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October 2, 2008 12:01am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Are former public servants telling porkies?
Investigative journalism 101, pick up the phone
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October 2, 2008 6:15am

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