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October 14, 2008 2:52pm by David Farrar

General Debate 14 October 2008

Better late than never!

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General Debate

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Chthoniid

If you want a break from politics, I’ve got a post on my own blog about tiger poaching in Asia. This reflects some of my err, more direct experiences in Asia in the last 2 years.

http://my.opera.com/chthoniid/blog/tiger-poaching-and-solutions

Otherwise, I return you back to your own regular political debate. 🙂
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October 14, 2008 2:57pm
big bruv

Tonight we have an election debate between Klark and Key, the media (aka the slime) will be all over this like a rash, frankly I don’t know why they are bothering, I can tell them what they are going to write right now.

Irrespective of how Key does it will be written up as “a clear victory for the PM”, irrespective of how Klark comes across the slime will write it up as “a masterly performance by the PM who showed real leadership”.
Key will be portrayed by the slime as “indecisive” and “on the back foot”, they will also say that he “spoke in platitudes and did not give a clear message as to how he would lead NZ out of economic turmoil”.

Klark will not offer anything of note apart from vindictive and nasty personal attacks but that will go unreported by the slime, they have already decided that she is going to be the winner of this debate irrespective of how it actually pans out.
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October 14, 2008 3:00pm
Paul Gardner

Did you see the blooper on One News last night when they did their comparison of NCEA and Cambridge?
http://paulgardner.info/humor/tvnz-shows-their-qualifications/
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October 14, 2008 3:03pm
dad4justice

Will the medics be at the ready for the Key verse Klarkula election debate?Yeah right. It should be as exciting as coro street.
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October 14, 2008 3:06pm
tknorriss

See our universities have been slipping in the world rankings:

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/nz-universities-slip-world-rankings-list/5/3925

I think it would be better to put the emphasis on having universities worth going to rather than entitling everyone to go to universities that are substandard.
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October 14, 2008 3:08pm
tknorriss

I see our universities are dropping in the world rankings:

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/nz-universities-slip-world-rankings-list/5/3925

I would rather have universities that are worth attending than pay for everyone to go to universities that barely qualify to be called such.
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October 14, 2008 3:10pm
harbr526

is it just me or is anyone else enjoying the labour party advertisements on the right hand side of kiwiblog. seems to alternate with the breast cancer ads.
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October 14, 2008 3:12pm
PhilBest

Someone was asking on another thread about a list of all Labour’s scandals. THIS ONE is pretty thorough:

http://halfdone.wordpress.com/offensive-content/
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October 14, 2008 3:14pm
big bruv

If Kullen is such a financial genius as the idiots at the Standard would have us believe then why on earth is he contemplating a December “mini budget” if Labour win and as such what can we expect to see in it?

I have a feeling it will include;

1. Cancellation of the 2010 and 2011 tax cuts.
2. The introduction of a new upper tax bracket (44%) that will come in at the 80k plus mark.
3. The possible cancellation of the recently implemented tax cuts.
4. Capital gains tax on housing (on the insistence of the Greens)
5. Immediate increase in petrol tax, 5 cents per litre.
6. Immediate implementation of a carbon tax for farmers.
7. Cancellation of all new roading projects, the money stolen by way of fuel tax and RUC to be used to fund rail and the rest to go into the general fund.
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October 14, 2008 3:14pm
PhilBest

Someone was asking on another thread about a list of all Labour’s scandals. THIS ONE is pretty thorough:

http://halfdone.wordpress.com/offensive-content/
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October 14, 2008 3:15pm
PhilBest

I am trying to post a link and it gets “deleted as spam” by the system. Someone was asking on the previous thread, about a list of all Labour’s scandals. There is a list on a blog called “Something Should Go Here, Maybe Later”. Google it for yourselves, and once the site is open, click on the box “Offensive Content”.
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October 14, 2008 3:17pm
philu

rudd has just given aussies a $10 billion ‘new deal’..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/rudd-pumps-in-10b/

(over to you..!..clark/key..!..)

eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 3:17pm
getstaffed

Kiwibank was founded in 2001.

I have never had any contact with them, and they have never direct mailed me.

Until today – less than 4 weeks from an election in which Labour is bragging about Kiwibank.

No doubt in my mind that this is politically motivated ‘advertising’
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October 14, 2008 3:18pm
PhilBest

Philu, you really are incorrigible. Aussie has something resembling an economy that can be relied upon by the government to supply a steady stream of adequate revenue. NZ no longer does, after 9 years of wannabe “new deal” and other general profligate splashing about of taxpayers money by a corrupt socialist gummint.

One consolation I have concerning the day that the gummint runs right out of taxation revenue AND sources of loan money, is that philu’s income will be no more………the turkey actually wants Christmas to come.
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October 14, 2008 3:22pm
Redbaiter

Want to know how unbelievably stupid left wing voters are?? Here Howard Stern sends an interviewer into Harlem and asks the public what they think of Obama’s policies. Of course they all say “Great”. Trouble is- They’re McCain’s policies.. Bwwahahahahah.. dimbulb leftists- sooooo utterly unbelievably stoopid–

Worst of all, he asks them, “how do you feel about Sarah Palin being Obama’s VP?” and how do you feel about her winning along with Obama and they all say “great” to that too..

So there you have it folks- what levels of ignorance and cynicism democracy has been reduced to under socialism.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/10/13/howard-stern-exposes-why-so-many-people-support-obama
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October 14, 2008 3:23pm
philu

i don’t think so ..big bruv..

..the political dialogue over the next little while will be the shape of our ‘new deal’..

..our ‘plan’..

..and no..clark/cullen won’t cut spending..

..just the opposite..

..they know the economy has to be ‘primed’..

..btw..i see nick smith has announced national would scrap the house retro-fitting scheme agreed on between labour and the greens..(!)

..(is that reason 53..or 54..?..

..to make sure these bastards are defeated..?)

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 3:24pm
Bevan

rudd has just given aussies a $10 billion ‘new deal’..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/rudd-pumps-in-10b/

(over to you..!..clark/key..!..)

Now where on earth do you expect NZ to find the money?
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October 14, 2008 3:25pm
Bevan

redbaiter, if it wasnt for the ignorance of the voting public, the left would never get elected!
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October 14, 2008 3:27pm
cocamc007

under the labour money tree – or perhaps from those years or surpluses we saved for a rainy day – yeah right
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October 14, 2008 3:28pm
PhilBest

getstaffed (2296) Vote: Add rating1 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

“Kiwibank was founded in 2001.

I have never had any contact with them, and they have never direct mailed me.

Until today – less than 4 weeks from an election in which Labour is bragging about Kiwibank.”

SAME, getstaffed.

Actually, it pisses me off every time I need to go to a Post Office (as infrequently as possible, if I can), there are queues of people wanting to tie up the counter staff with a whole range of stuff that is utterly irrelevant to any idea of a “core business” if there can be said to be one at those establishments.
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October 14, 2008 3:28pm
tknorriss

The world rankings for our universities is slipping:

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/nz-universities-slip-world-rankings-list/5/3925

I think our emphasis before anything else should be on improving the quality of our universities rather than just diluting them with more dimwits. I used to mark some university papers several years ago. Back then, the quality of the students was appalling based on what I saw. A lot of them should never have been there in the first place. Probably a lot worse now.
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October 14, 2008 3:31pm
Chthoniid

But I thought the PBRF scheme was going to increase our rankings?
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October 14, 2008 3:42pm
Wycroft

I know there’s plenty of time in the campaign to go, but to date my take on the fourth estate’s commentary goes like this.

Having fallen out of love with Clark badly over the past 18 months – for very good reasons – and because the polls have reflected how tired the country has gotten with Labour – again for very good reasons – the media started covering this campaign as a done deal: National would win.

As a result they’ve applied so much time and energy to nit picking National policy, most of which is such run of the mill and moderate stuff that they’ve critiqued it harshly and in isolation.

Basically I’m saying they took the view, consciously or otherwise, that National would win so they were deserving of a thorough grilling on what we were all going to get. They basically took Labour as a lost cause and ignored them for the two weeks following Clark’s announcement of the date.

The problem is how much of the media’s criticism of National policy has been in isolation. Most of the coverage I’ve seen, heard and read up until yesterday’s student allowance announcement by Labour has been about National. There has been almost no coverage or critique of Labour’s record or new policies – at least none done with such energy or such strongly held opinion as the coverage of National.

And what’s the result of the media’s critiquing National in a vacuum? They’ve brought Labour back into a race they shouldn’t be in.

That’s my view in its simplest form. Though there are two qualifiers.

First, had National’s policy been more audacious, and Key’s handling of the press been slicker – in fact the whole National machine been a bit slicker and apparently ready to lead – the media may not have got stuck in as harshly as they have.

Second, Clark is on form and is firing a lot of rounds early in an effort to make up the gap (and her messages are getting traction they don’t necessarily deserve for the aforementioned reason – the media placed National in a vacuum and, having got bored of them, turned on them).

But, right or wrong, good policy or bad, the media have over the past 18 months been, I believe, an accurate reflection of the electorate – bored of Labour and disdainful of much of its methods of government.

So, any political hacks reading this, please, fair’s fair: start taking to Labour in the same manner you’ve been taking to National.

Will you respect yourselves if you wake up on November 9 to a Labour-led government you helped usher into office? Do you really want to spend three years writing the same doleful critiques of a government that’s lost its mojo and will do anything to cling to office?
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October 14, 2008 3:43pm
redeye

Redbaiter, that proves there are some idiots in Harlem. Not much else.

Bevan, I think Redbaiter votes for the conservatives.
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October 14, 2008 3:44pm
gd

tknorriss Believe me its got worse Im involved with a post grad level professional body entry programme Most coming to us have Commerce/Law degrees.

Their English reading and writing skills are dreadful. Some can hardly string a sentence together.Given communication will be a large part of their career roles we have re educate them.

Mind you the quality of the lecturers is the real problem. Its the blind leading the blind.

In the good ole days if you told an AU law lecturer you had a bit of bother understanding Northey you would have a clip round the ears. Now they provide remedial reading courses.

Staggering.
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October 14, 2008 3:49pm
tknorriss

“Their English reading and writing skills are dreadful. Some can hardly string a sentence together.Given communication will be a large part of their career roles we have re educate them.”

Thats what I found too. Worse than that though, a lot of them had a very poor grasp on the fundamentals of logical expression of ideas even allowing for poor spelling etc. There is no way a lot of them should have set foot into a university. I think a lot of it has to do with the “knowledge economy” promoted by labour and university becoming much more sexy than the trades.
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October 14, 2008 3:55pm
labrator

..they know the economy has to be ‘primed’..

Primed for what? Communism?
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October 14, 2008 3:55pm
mike12

BB – you will 100% correct about the capital gains tax (greens envy tax) in December but he has a year to cancel the 2010 cuts which he will with that slimey grin we all love
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October 14, 2008 3:56pm
PhilBest

I think the Nats are in a no-win situation. If John Key wins this election, by “winning over Labour voters”, he will have 3 years of hell. He could not inherit a worse position, and the MSM are so biased, they will give him hell no matter what he does. And the people of NZ are obviously so economically illiterate, the MSM will succeed in railroading Key out and the Heleban back in, in 3 years flat. Remember the Nats getting 24 percent of the vote in 2002? What had they done to deserve that? How does the Heleban still enjoy 30-40% support after 9 years of scandal?
If Key does anything really bold that might have the slightest chance of turning the NZ economy around, he will be beaten up from here to eternity for “breaking promises” and having a “secret agenda”, and we will have the message rammed down our throats from here to eternity that we cannot trust the main “right of the spectrum” politicians ever again. But if he just does the barest minimum, softly, softly, don’t upset the stupid sheeple, the economy will continue to bomb like it was going to anyway thanks to 9 years of Liarbour plus the international crisis; and the MSM will spin this endlessly as the Nats fault. Either way, the MSM and the Heleban will spend the next 9 years blaming 3 years of John Key for the deepening mess THEY continue to make of NZ, and the stupid, stupid, stupid sheeple will keep believing it.
The Heleban becoming the de facto one-party State subsequent to 3 years of John Key, will be hell. So I actually wonder if the best bet is for John Key to NOT win this election. Let Helen and Mikhael manage the crisis THEIR way. I and many others like me thought that things were obvious enough now, and the Heleban was on its way to being wiped out. But no, it seems that the stupid, stupid, stupid sheeple of NZ have been frightened by the very crisis that has occurred in NZ UNDER THE HELEBAN, starting with a house price bubble; (and the same goes for Leftwing politics all over the world including the Democrats in the USA) into wanting nanny state cuddly blanky politics to “rescue” them, they cannot trust the free-market-believing right wing to be any help.
I think John Key needs to do the sort of tough talking now that will NOT win over Labour voters. Warn them of the consequences of their preferred politicians ideology, and if the Nats lose the election, spend the next 3 years on the attack saying “We Told You So”. Keep doing this until the stupid, stupid, stupid sheeple of NZ have learnt their lesson. At some stage, if not now, if not in 3 years, if not in 6 years; that tough talking and saying “We Told You So” has to register. The trouble is, by doing the opposite, by going “me too” all the time, they are tacitly providing confirmation in peoples minds that there is really not a lot wrong with Labour’s economic management, thus perpetuating NZ’s long term problems, and inviting a one-term stay in government apon themselves.
What might be the result of the current financial crisis, is not the demise of Capitalism, but the demise of “big government”. All over the world, governments tax revenues are collapsing just as they commit to huge amounts of bailout money and guarantees of financial institutions, AND CREDIT is TIGHTENING. So there is every possibility that governments will both run out of revenue AND be unable to borrow.
It would be better to have Helen and Mikhael cling to government again now and do a swift suicide job, rather like the end of “Atlas Shrugged”. If they have to go into coalition with the Greens, all the better for the swiftness of the suicide. John Key is too much of a nice guy to have to spend 3 years of hell prolonging the agony of the country and then getting blamed for it forever after when it is not his fault at all. I think our best, if not our ONLY long term hope, is for the Nats to get in AFTER the final “big collapse”, not before. That way, we might become “The Czech Republic of the South Pacific”. With the Heleban “managing” NZ AFTER John Key had a brief spell of prolonging the agony, we will be “The Cuba of the South Pacific”.

Another danger is, what happens when the Heleban does run right out of money to pay the bureaucrats and the cops and the military and to keep the power on? It could get very messy.
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October 14, 2008 3:58pm
thedavincimode

big bruv Says:

“…
7. Cancellation of all new roading projects, the money stolen by way of fuel tax and RUC to be used to fund rail and the rest to go into the general fund.”

A small point of clarification BB if you wouldn’t mind, do you mean the “consolidated fund” of Government, or do you mean the LABOUR PARTY “general fund”??
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October 14, 2008 4:02pm
Lee

Philu,

The original New Deal was a monumental failure and helped extend the depression for several years longer than was necessary. America’s economy did not rebound until Eisenhower won the Presidency and instituted tax cuts and cuts in government spending, which led to a fifteen year economic boom.

Ps,

your a moron.
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October 14, 2008 4:15pm
Jane

I am coming home to vote and am shocked to be told by two of my privately and tertiary educated, eastern suburbs dwelling, Remuera tractor driving friends that they are planning on voting Green/Labour. I am just stunned and worry how many other affluent NZers could be thinking along their lines. Why they can’t see past the Winston debacle beats me as well. Thank god I have one friend who gets it.

Anyway, since I am a lousy debater and can’t argue my way out of a paper bag and I’m not completely up with EFA, I need five points how/why EFA is a crap piece of legislation. I have a general gist of it. Hopefully I can persuade them to change their vote.

Cheers
Jane
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October 14, 2008 4:16pm
Chthoniid

They’re probably driving diesel powered Remuera tractors. Those things practically suck the GHG from the air (or so I’m told) 😉
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October 14, 2008 4:29pm
philu

lee..i think it should be ‘you’re’…eh..?

..otherwise it means that i have a (pet?) ‘moron’..

..would you like to apply for the position..?

..pick up a crayon..

..and prove your case..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 4:44pm
Bevan

Bevan, I think Redbaiter votes for the conservatives.

YA THINK?

And here I thought he batted for Jimbo Anderton…
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October 14, 2008 4:47pm
toby1845

Gallows humour, I know, but I must admit that I found this quite amusing:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10537431

I wonder if the 300 trade unionists involved are that concerned about their Kiwisaver accounts now. In fact, a 2% employer contribution would look quite attractive about now.

Heh heh.
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October 14, 2008 4:51pm
lloydois

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs&feature=related

Not just in Harlem Redbaiter.
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October 14, 2008 4:56pm
philu

i am going to do a live-commentary on the clark vs. key ’bout’..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/helen-clark-vs-john-key/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 4:56pm
big bruv

So what does Key need to do to win the debate tonight? (irrespective of what the slime say about him tomorrow in the press)

IMHO he needs to;

Open with a real ball breaker, as mentioned by a previous poster he needs to ask the maggot if she will guarantee that Labour’s planned tax cuts will not be removed.

Interrupt her as soon as she starts to tell lies about National, he needs to use direct language and even accuse her of telling lies.

Remind the public about all of the scandals that have surrounded Labour, Phillip Field, Benson Pope, etc…

Do away with the smug grin, Key needs to look serious and determined, he MUST find a way to get Klark to lose her temper, Key did it will Kullen at the last election and I hope he can find a way to fluster Klark.

Perhaps not in this debate (maybe the last one just before the election) he needs to end with a conciliatory statement toward Klark much in the same way that Lange did with Muldoon, a statement such as…..

“Look, I have great respect for the way that Helen Clark transformed the Labour party, despite our political differences I have a lot of time for her and I am sure that a National government will use her undoubted talents in any capacity should she still seek to serve the people of NZ”

A statement like that will not be something that Klark will be able to let pass without some snide and cheap comment, she will fall right into Key’s trap much like Muldoon did with Lange way back in 84.
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October 14, 2008 4:57pm
baxter

Big Bruv……….You will be pretty right except for item 4. While the Dominiatrix has invested in about six or seven high value properties there will be no Capital Gains Tax.
PHIL…..Your assessment is right except if National can’t win this one (and they seem to be trying to lose it) then I despair of them ever being able to win. Abolishment of MMP is their only chance of again becoming the natural goverment of choice.
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October 14, 2008 4:59pm
PhilBest

TRUMP BUYS ICELAND!!!!

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/688ynkab.asp
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October 14, 2008 5:00pm
Wycroft

Be prepared for a surprise from Key tonight. I suspect he’s got a bit to get off his chest and has been waiting for a good forum. His success or failure will depend on his ability to stop Clark from speaking over him. She’ll try, and he should get a bit chippy and grumpy when she does. Just a bit, but definitely gloves off – the punters will like that.
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October 14, 2008 5:01pm
PhilBest

# philu (3547) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

“i am going to do a live-commentary on the clark vs. key ’bout’..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/helen-clark-vs-john-key/

phil(whoar.co.nz)”

And in your dreamworld paralell universe, how many watchers are you going to have, philu?
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October 14, 2008 5:01pm
redeye

Bruv, Keys appeal for me is that he’s a gentleman. One of the reasons your man McCain is now trailing by 10 points is that he played the man.

For mine he’ll win if he maintains dignity and explains clearly his plans for NZ. He doesn’t have the personality to go for the throat and will look like a pretender if he does. He should take a leaf out of Obama’s book.

The people I associate with have had enough of crappy politics.
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October 14, 2008 5:11pm
redeye

Bevan I think you missed it.
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October 14, 2008 5:13pm
Redbaiter

“Not just in Harlem Redbaiter.”

Well, typical Clintonistas..
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October 14, 2008 5:28pm
RRM

“Typical Clintonistas..”

Everyone’s a TYPICAL SOMETHING with you aren’t they? Surprises me, coming from such a self-professed liberal/freedom fighter you’ve very quick to generalise and lump people together…

Perhaps if you were to (cough) get a job, get out of the house and meet people, you’d find that there are in fact very few people around who you could ever call a “typical” anything!
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October 14, 2008 5:33pm
Patrick Starr

“get a job, get out of the house and meet people, you’d find that there are in fact very few people around who you could ever call a “typical” anything!’

I do all those things,……. and I still say RRM is a typical leftie wanker
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October 14, 2008 5:39pm
Buggerlugs

OK, when the FUCK is Radio Pravda going to pull Brent Edwards, the Cullen soundalike, off the airwaves? His piece on Checkpoint tonight was practically a party political broadcast for Labour, written by the Standard.

PS Jane – I have just purchased a 44 magnum lever action. If you want to borrow it to persuade your obviously addled friends, let me know.
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October 14, 2008 5:41pm
Ryan Sproull

Is Redbaiter unemployed?
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October 14, 2008 5:57pm
RRM

Ok I’m guessing there obviously! But the guy seems to be able to prose on – at considerable length – at all times of the day and night; leading me to suspect he is either a very junior-level Civil Servant or a Beneficiary, as nobody else would have the time to do this.

But then, no-one knows who Redbaiter really is, and I certainly don’t!
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October 14, 2008 6:15pm
philu

redbaiter is a leftie troll..

..here purely to show the right in a bad light..

..to help foster their knuckle-dragging reactionary public persona/image..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 6:28pm
getstaffed

Anyone else here think that Garner is a sniveling socialist?

His performance tonight on TV3 was a new confirmation for me.
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October 14, 2008 6:32pm
philu

keys’ first line to clark should be..

..(said whilst striking uriah heep pose…and wringing hands..)

“..please mistress..don’t hurt/humiliate me too much..!..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 14, 2008 6:36pm
Jane

Thanks Buggerlugs. I’m not quite at the point of wanting to shoot them and I am really trying not to let the way they’re voting affect 25 years of friendship but honestly, it is bloody hard and I can see the Friday night pre-election get together turning into a shit fight.
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October 14, 2008 6:57pm
Wycroft

No one seems to be bloggin the debate, so now that we’re into the first ad break let me start. As I predicted, Key is finding this a good forum. He’s had a solid points victory so far, simply because he’s being assertive and has SO MUCH raw material to work with, thanks to Labour’s shithouse management of the economy.
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October 14, 2008 7:22pm
Wycroft

Ooh, I love it, Helen broke. “You might shout people down at home John but you’re not going to shout me down.” He wasn’t shouting duckie, he just wasn’t letting you lie!
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October 14, 2008 7:29pm
thedavincimode

Jane Says:

I am coming home to vote and am shocked to be told by two of my privately and tertiary educated … friends that they are planning on voting Green/Labour … ”

Dear Jane

1. These people are not your friends. They are your enemies. This isn’t necessarily their fault. Did you ever watch “From Dawn to Dusk”? If so, you will appreciate what has happened to them.

2. The advice that you have had from Mr Buggerlugs is nothing short of outrageous. Everyone knows that the .44 Magnum is not a Ladies weapon. Shame on you Mr Buggerlugs. My advice Jane, is to invite them around to dinner. Imagine if you got confused and put strychnine in the mash instead of salt!! Oh you silly old thing!! Never mind, everyone makes mistakes!!
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October 14, 2008 7:41pm
WebWrat

Interesting how Mark Sainsbury talks over the top of John Key when he’s trying to make a point, but doesn’t do it to Clark.
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October 14, 2008 8:10pm
Patrick Starr

Key is far better than I thought he would – he’s wiping the floor with the old bag

(lol- She got very rattled about the shower heads)
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October 14, 2008 8:18pm
NeillR

Agreed – i was pretty impressed with Key. He landed a couple of good blows:

Clark: I don’t know how John Key can say that with a straight face?
Key: Because it’s true, that’s why.

Clark: John’s had a lot to say on education…..
Key:… that’s because there’s so much failure in the system.

But i thought his best blow was when he said that he’d advocated for ratings on the finance companies as far back as 2003 and that he’d written to Clark last year to say that something should be done. She was like a possum in the headlights when that one came out – no answer. Good stuff.
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October 14, 2008 8:35pm
Tauhei Notts

Different subject, but a friend called me.
He was considering flicking his $200,000 7.82% deposit out of the National Bank and putting it into the goverment guaranteed Marac at 9.95%.
I told him that four decades in business has taught me that if anything is too good to be true, then it mostly isn’t true. Stick with the National I told him.
I wonder if that was dumb advice I gave him.
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October 14, 2008 9:11pm
musthafabuck

toby1845 (146) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:

“I wonder if the 300 trade unionists involved are that concerned about their Kiwisaver accounts now. In fact, a 2% employer contribution would look quite attractive about now.”

I wonder if the in work ones would take a 20% pay cut and create vacancies for their out of work comrades, in the workplaces they are in now, some on 70k per annum?? I don’t think so, social responsibility only goes so far, certainly doesn’t get a worker out of a feather bed!!! Closet capitalists eh. (shit did I say that)
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October 14, 2008 9:24pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Any one else noticed Labour’s web advert encouraging people to vote from Overseas?

Why would “genuine” voters living overseas want to vote Labour? Didn’t they leave the country to get away from Labour in the first place?
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October 15, 2008 7:40am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Jim Anderton thinks he’s going the distance:
Anderton vows to serve full term

The only thing Jim will be doing for the next three years is drawing a back bench MP’s salary.

All his old old friends will be retiring so why would he want to stick around? Hels and Cullen will both be retiring in short order.
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October 15, 2008 8:00am
getstaffed

I see that Sir Edmund Hillary OPC is to be prosecuted over Elim College deaths.

Apparently accidents can’t happen without fault being attributed, and punishment delivered.

Separately, our school came within a whisker of cancelling a school trip this week on account of doubts raised by the mammoth pile of pages of risk management, activity strategy, issue notification/escalation plan, travel advisory, police checks and other ‘health and safety’ documentation that I was required to sign. It’s safer for schools & boards to not hold these events – and our kids are the worse for it.
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October 15, 2008 8:21am
riki

‘Apparently accidents can’t happen without fault being attributed, and punishment delivered.’

Now,

What’s the diffefrence betwen this situation and Cave Creek?

DOC’s not involved, therefore a minister can’t be held responsible.

Who’s thinking another minister would get away with it again
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October 15, 2008 9:09pm

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