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June 9, 2008 8:55pm by David Farrar

Anyone seen Dad4Justice recently?

He might be visiting London!

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Dad4Justice

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Super Heroes to the rescue!

Somehow I can’t imagine the police giving any one such a free ride if this happened in New Zealand. I can just imagine the reaction if some people decided to set up shop protesting on the roof of Clark’s or another cabinet ministers house.

Good for a laugh though.
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June 9, 2008 9:00pm
dad4justice

Check your roof Helen as the Bat is lurking.
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June 9, 2008 9:01pm
Southern Raider

Speaking of justice and slightly off topic. Did anyone hear George Hawkens on ZB discussing the murder in Manurewa?

He blamed the Police for letting teenagers off and not following up on minor crimes.

Isn’t it George’s own party that has not supported the Police and put in legislation to stop them prosecuting minors?
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June 9, 2008 9:05pm
dad4justice

Without prejudice;
For the record, the Prime Minister Helen Clark has ordered the SIS to keep a very close eye on F4J New Zealand. I have many examples and it was my greatest honour as Batman to carpet bomb parliament and Wellington with Father Friendly Zone -Kids Need Dads Too Stickers. I stuck one on Miss Clark’s seat in the debating chamber and signed the guest book thanking her.
Arrest me, I don’t care as the Family court is a corrupt regime of sicko’s and liars !!
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June 9, 2008 9:16pm
Barnsley Bill

Did you notice that the harperson fled her house?
The hawkins comments are special, didn’t this bumbling numpty once have something to with the cops??
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June 9, 2008 9:18pm
Southern Raider

The funest part was the texts into Larry Williams after the interview. One listener asked “who was the demented old person that has lost his asthma inhaler” that Williams had been talking too.

D4J I saw a classic Simpsons episode in weekend. The singles, gays etc wanted to ban family events and make families pay higher taxes and rates. When they came to vote on the proposal they made all these little kids stand outside the polling booths. All the anti-family people got sick and couldn’t vote because they hadn’t developed any immunity to kids germs. You would like it!
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June 9, 2008 9:29pm
dad4justice

Jolly says it better than I can and he even makes the bias media eat humble pie in my opinion. What else can we do, as I have addressed countless select committees and have enough Ministerial replies to wall paper a 4 bedroom house ( including that imbecile George Dawkins). They won’t listen and the damage caused too society through family breakdown and fatherlessness is obvious to the most bias and prejudice amongst us. But they don’t care, as they continue to push the feminist agenda much to the detriment of balance and happy children. I wouldn’t wish the Family court experience on anybody!!

F4J Roof Protestor Jolly Stanesby Interview BBC News
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=L3RUjRVUXoE
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June 9, 2008 9:38pm
Paul

DPF,

are you taking the piss, giving an open forum to one of the strangest persons lurking in the blogosphere.

But in all fairness, I’ve never seen him put together an argument before, so I’ll keep reading.

“family breakdown and fatherlessness” are you seriously attributing this societal shift to government? If so how (I seriously am interested?). I’d be interested in the “feminist agenda”, what is it, and how exactly is it manifested that troubles your society so.

I do agree with you though, I wouldn’t wish the family court (or any court) on anyone.
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June 9, 2008 10:09pm
Strutta

Paul,

If you are really interested in the truth, read the Feminist Manifesto to which several of the current MPs are signatories, including Helen Clark. While I agree that d4j is at the extreme end of the political spectrum, I can sympathise with his situation because I pay child support.
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June 9, 2008 10:25pm
dad4justice

Paul your constant attack on my credibility is rather tiresome with cowardly comments like “strangest persons lurking in the blogosphere”. In my opinion you are by far the weirdest creep on this forum. 34,000 de – family court cases per year, that’s a lot of unhappy children, but Judge Boshier will fix the problem by making the de – family court judges’ wear judge dread robes and wigs. How out of touch his litigation court is( he is a feminist puppet). Unfortunately it’s a place where false allegations flourish and adversarial tactics for effect which delay settlement abound. Mediation is far better for children and fairer for fathers as opposed to the heartbreaking litigation that makes unscrupulous lawyers and psychologists wealthy.
Can you email me off forum so I can discuss your odd fixation with my opinion.
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June 9, 2008 10:26pm
dad4justice

Strutta I pay child support for a daughter even though I have full custody of her. The IRD are child extortion creeps who are working to the feminist agenda, much like CYFS, Families Commission, Children Commissioner and police.
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June 9, 2008 10:29pm
LabourDoesntWork

Harriet Harman is a true feminist parasite – those bottom-feeders of society. If family breakdown, warring between man and ex-wife, and children who don’t know both parents is the disordered shit that modern society produces then feminists are the flies and parasites feeding from it, and creating even more. There is nothing a feminist finds more validating to its innately warped beliefs than every kind of corruption of human nature and male-female relationships. It’s why feminist “Women’s Studies” departments are positively obsessed with prostitution, divorce, abortion, and lesbianism. It’s all these failed human beings can understand.
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June 9, 2008 11:03pm
Paul

Strutta,

I am glad you pay child support. That surely is good for your child? And how is this the fault of the feminist manifesto? If you separated from your partner and there is a child involved that needs support, surely this is a good thing????

“34,000 de – family court cases per year, that’s a lot of unhappy children” How is this the fault of the Family Court. Surely they are there for a reason.

“place where false allegations flourish and adversarial tactics” I’m sorry but isn’t this the nature of the judicial system, and are we entirely sure that they are false. I agree mediation could be a less intrusive way, but why should it be fairer for the fathers, surely it should be equally fair.

Dad I don’t have an odd fixation with you, (this thread apart) you fail to engage in any form of dialogue, just adding smart arsed and false claims. In the political blogosphere that is fair game, especially in this blog. If you didn’t just come in with “share a fridge bong and various gongs” as a snide remark against the greens, there wouldn’t be any need to take you to task over it.

I mean I don’t sit here making false allegations of men in suits looking at kiddie porn behind closed doors, with reference to the Nats, so why should you be able to say such stuff and get away with it.

Sorry no email mate, what we have to say to each other is fine in this forum.

Dad because you are struggling with a situation, it’s not the fault of others, and certainly not the fault of some all encompassing ‘feminist’ agenda which I see is now controlling the police? See that’s just bloody strange.
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June 9, 2008 11:08pm
Paul

LabourDoesntWork

could you spurt out anything more stupid if you tried. What a load of ideological bullshit thinly wrapped up in criticism.

“Women’s Studies” departments are positively obsessed with prostitution, divorce, abortion, and lesbianism.”

You freaking dork, these are womens issues, studied in womens studies. If for fucks sake the Biology Dept was to suddenly offer papers on the place in society of the All Blacks, that would be stupid and wrong, they don’t they teach biology. Womens studies teach womens topics.

Get a grip, you very small minded and seriously problematic fool.
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June 9, 2008 11:20pm
kiwitoffee

Paul

Prostitution, divorce and abortion are all men’s issues too, surely.

Even lesbianism is a men’s issue in as much as at least one of them in such a relationship thinks she’s a he.

All these issues concern everyone, not just women.

Can’t see a feminist agenda? Call into a school sometime, especially a primary school, see if you can find many men. The PM and Attorney General – to mention just two of our nation’s leaders – are feminists. Don’t tell me they don’t have a great influence over the direction of our country.

Read Simone de Beauvoir and weep – for our women.
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June 10, 2008 12:25am
LabourDoesntWork

Womens studies teach womens topics.

I don’t think these feminists even know what women are. They make the mistake that women can be understood without understanding men also. They advocate for women exclusively, even to the exclusion of children’s interests (both boys and GIRLS!).
This approach goes against the reality of the shared, cooperative nature of men and women, which is why their ideas are so destructive to society.
Feminists don’t even care that 50% of unborn children killed in the name of reproductive freedom are female. Also their ideas have empowered women, worldwide, to abort predominantly females at rates that result in a dearth of girls in these anti-woman societies. Feminists are a hopelessly self-defeating and illogical failure.
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June 10, 2008 1:13am
expat

Paul,

You really need to get out more. If you don’t like it here you should go and play with the people at the standard, theyre more up your alley.
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June 10, 2008 1:16am
Pascal

kiwitoffee: Can’t see a feminist agenda? Call into a school sometime, especially a primary school, see if you can find many men. The PM and Attorney General – to mention just two of our nation’s leaders – are feminists.

Even better, look at the projected rates of death for prostate cancer in New Zealand. Compare that to the rates for Cervical and Breast cancer. Then look at the amount of money spent on advertising breast screening and cervical screening tests and compare that to the amount of money spent on advertising prostate cancer. 1 in 4 addbreaks has an advert for it. When was the last time you saw an advert for a prostate cancer checkup?

A feminist agenda? Perhaps. It has certainly become true that, as with most socially corrective behavior, it swings like a pendulum.

Note: Before a lefty falls over frothing about mysoginy and whatnot – I fully support breast/cervical screening tests as they are currently being rolled out, because you can see they are making a difference when you look at the stats. I would however like to see more money invested in male issues.

Edit: It is rather amusing to see Paul accuse D4J of everything that he, Paul, is guilty of on this blog. You have to laugh at such a blatant hypocrite. He lies. He rarely debates issues. It’s rather funny.
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June 10, 2008 6:49am
dad4justice

Paul,
Just a word of warning as you just never knows what’s around the corner. You can be a loving and gentle dad one day, then wearing a quilted padded dress the next, locked in a round room cell in the At Risk Unit at Paparoa Prison. All it takes is a vindictive and vengeful maternal family and overzealous bent police to shove you in front of Judge John (PM speedgate rort judge) who shafts you real good and keeps you from your children for seven years when he states;
“Prima facie there had been psychological and emotional abuse directed both in relation to Miss ##### and to the other persons which would justify the final protection order as sought.”

Anybody ever heard of a lying bitch woman in the De Family Court ever being referred into criminal jurisdiction for perjury charges?

Male suicide statistics correlate with disgruntled male litigants in the De Family court.
The trany grany Human Rights Review Tribunal is still waiting for costs awarded against me in 2004 for proceedings I brought against the court, cyfs and cops. I alleged and proved blatant unlawful gender discrimination and they fobbed me off as a piece of shit.

Many falsely accused fathers got nothing more to lose when a dirty pus laden corrupt feminazi system steals his kids and kills his mother.
Batman will fly and everybody bar that pathological liar Paul have a good day.
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June 10, 2008 7:14am
gd

I have much sympathy for Dad and thank the Lord that I never had to face the total utter and contemptable discrimination fathers have to face in this anti men society that has been created by Clark Wilson Dyson Street et al over the past 30 years.

These screeching sisterhood witches are mentally deranged and if they were subjected to medical examination would be locked up as the danger that they pose to society.

Power to your elbow Dad Dont let the bastards grind you down.
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June 10, 2008 10:40am
gd

On the subject of Hawkins and that dreadful murder.

Notice how Sharples and Turia et al are so silent

Not a squeek out of them Gutless wonders that they are Dont have the leadership ability to organise a booze up in a brewery.

And the next bastard that tells me its the communities fault and we are all responsible will get my fist down their throat.

Want me to be responsible Well give me the authority that goes with responsibility and I and other like minded citizens will rid the streets of crime and these cretins.

The solution is to terminaye them with extreme predujice and sod the soft cocks Where were you when the shop keeper was gunned down.
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June 10, 2008 10:45am
dog_eat_dog

Dad;

Your problems seem to be with women themselves, but unless they are acting in cahoots with each other, there really is little justification for this ‘Feminist Agenda’ crap. Most ‘Feminists’ are only interested in equal rights for men and women and if one is above the other, then it completely flies in the face of what they’re trying to acheive.

It’s nice to see that you also regard women who seek divorce as dirty and puss-ridden. I think if there’s anyone out there in need of a good dose of feminism, it’s you.

LabourDoesntWork, I found myself somewhat agreeing with you before you went off on your tanget about abortion, needless to say that ‘reproductive freedom’ is not the only reason women seek abortions, and probably a very small portion of women do for that reason.
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June 10, 2008 11:42am
gd

dog_eat_dog

WRONG Many feminists are not interested in equal rights for wimmin What they want is no rights for men

My observations since the late 60s has been that the hard core including many of our current female pollies want men to be the servant species servicing those wimmin who wish to be serrviced and otherwise Foxtroting Oscar and doing what they are told.

the so called equal opportunities was a stalking horse to gain the upper hand

Thank God these Amazons are in the minority although they do occupy many senior roles as John Tamihere said in his Wishart interview.

Unlike men who are working every hour God gave to pay their taxes plus help to raise their kids these chardonnay swillers have all the time in the world to plot the downfall of blokes
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June 10, 2008 12:44pm
Paul

“Can’t see a feminist agenda? Call into a school sometime, especially a primary school, see if you can find many men”

This isn’t a feminist agenda. I was a teacher for years and years, there is no bloody feminist agenda. Why would anyone want to work in a job that doesn’t pay too well, you’re treated like shit much of the day, there is always work to take home every evening, the myth of the school holidays is exactly that a myth, and the most important issue is that the greater community undervalues the place of education and teachers as a whole. Just look at the comments you folk all make about teachers ever time. If these issues were addressed then there would be more male teachers full stop. these issues drive male teachers away – fact.

Feminist agenda, is about as useful as saying PC or common sense. It’s vacuous and means nothing that contributes to the debate of the issues.

Pascal -“He lies. He rarely debates issues”

WTF was this post. Where are the lies, you show me lies sunshine and I’ll apologise. Have you ever seen me post one line rants along the lines of “businessmen scum in suits play with the privates of school kids” No so shut the fuck up tosser.

I engage all the time, and if you don’t like what I have to say that is a different issue. I’ll never rant like that maniac does. I will give him credit in this post that he’s actually engaging in posts longer than one frothing sentence.

“You can be a loving and gentle dad one day, then wearing a quilted padded dress the next, locked in a round room cell in the At Risk Unit at Paparoa Prison. All it takes is a vindictive and vengeful maternal family and overzealous bent police to shove you in front of Judge John”

Actually you know Dad, no this isn’t true. I will not be doing those things you say, as these just don’t happen out of the blue. There needs to be a catalyst for this sort of scenario to happen, it just doesn’t happen like magic, so no I don’t need to worry. It’s like saying I need to be worried about selling P in public, because I don’t I don’t have to.
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June 10, 2008 12:52pm
freethinker

Paul
Your negative Karma points indicate your opinion is not shared by a majority of this blogs readers and I do defend your right to have an opinion. However, as an example, stating that the lack of men in primary teaching is not the result of a feminist agenda is not backed up by even your opinion on why. So others perception that men have withdrawn from this area because they do see it as a discriminated job requires addressing if our young children are to benefit from both male & female aproaches. Similarly with the family court – what happened in the UK is either a remarkable coincidence or evidence that the” feminist agenda” is indeed international.
Dad4J
Congratulations on heeding the advice to tone down your understandable anger – I notice your Positive Karma points, and your opinion is now generating valuable debate – just what we need. I would appoint you to a truth & retribution tribunal if I had the power.
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June 10, 2008 1:52pm
kiwitoffee

Pascal

Good point about health care and, yes, I’m not against women’s health care either, of course.

Paul

If you still can’t see a feminist agenda, not even in our schools, hospitals and courts (supposedly public institutions for men as much as women) have a chat with Tim Barnett, Chris Carter or Charles Chauvel, the sort of men who thrive under our current feminist leadership.
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June 10, 2008 2:49pm
Paul

Which part of primary school teaching is a “discriminated job”, by whom? Male teachers are not discriminate by other teachers, ust because ‘opinions’ of those in this blog think so. Ask 100 teachers if they feel males need to be more involved in education, particularly early childhood education and I bet you’d have at least 99% agreement. So I ask you who is doing the discriminating. I would argue that it’s the community, So unless there is a communal indeed societal ‘feminist agenda’ then the lack of men in our early childhood education is down to other factors. Sorry if my opinion isn’t valid enough for you. Having been a teacher for about 8 years with many many friends still in teaching, I know this stuff pretty well as fact or from the coal face. So sorry if my arguments aren’t to your perception of what is in reality.

I will argue to the ends of the earth that as long as men can get better paid employment in other sectors and as long as education is continually devalued by the political and social sphere, there will be a lack of males in that occupation. I got more money working in a factory during the varsity holidays than I did teaching, this is just one of the factors that influence male participation, rather than some ‘feminist agenda’.

Could someone then please explain what this ‘feminist agenda’ actually is and how it is manifest? Or are we all just working on the theory that if we bandy it about enough like Anti -PC, although not actually meaning or representing anything, it will take hold in the venacular and people will presume it to mean something.

kiwitoffee, No I can’t see a feminist agenda in our schools or hospitals? I mean who are all of the senior clinicians on the biggest wages with the greatest membership of the most exclusive golf clubs in the country – men, and whom are the majority of nurses – women (note for the less than intelligent, I said most, a good mate is a male nurse). So if there is some feminist agenda, it’s fucking well failing. Perhaps the feminist agenda means that if you go to hospital you don’t get served if there is a woman ahead of you, or your dinner is served after a woman, what the hell is the feminist agenda. Give it some bloody substance instead of this meaningless clap trap. Just because you repeat a term over and over, doesn’t make it so, good god what has debate been reduced to.

I just also don’t get what you mean about Tim, Chris and Charles? Do they wear stockings under their suits? WTF?

And finally freethinker, the Karma points we all know are a waste of time. Anyone on the left here gets negative karma while any shite of the right gets positive karma. They are about as useful an indication of the validity of an argument as giving gold stars out.
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June 10, 2008 3:08pm
Paul

oh lookie there, I just gave myself positive karma. I could also delete all cookies in my preferences and give myself massive positive karma, yeah really use full.
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June 10, 2008 3:09pm
Paul

Pascal,

as for the ‘they get more money than we do’ policy of pre-emptive medical funding, is that a failing of the males, or a reflection as to how hard women have fought for this money.

Besides, what was Movember? A whole bloody month talking about the insides of males.
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June 10, 2008 3:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

Paul says:

Strutta,

I am glad you pay child support. That surely is good for your child? And how is this the fault of the feminist manifesto? If you separated from your partner and there is a child involved that needs support, surely this is a good thing????

Go away and have another look at a regime that, assuming the woman is in receipt of a benefit, refuses to acknowledge any arrangement the father and mother may have willingly made between them; which demands effectively half the father’s income (when family support + income tax is taken into account) and then pays the child (via the mother) only a fraction of the amount taken from the father.

Who loses? The father – he’s out of pocket at least half of what he earns (more, if he has several children). His only way “out” is to go on the dole, when the amount taken from him will be less than the amount given to his child; the mother – she receives only a small top-up to her benefit for the child, and certainly nothing like what any employed father is required to pay; and the child, to whom many loving dads would happily give as much of their income as they could, if they weren’t struggling to pay child support.

Who wins? The Treasurer of the day (and neither National nor Labour has shown any interest in changing this regime) who gets a cohort of the NZ population to pay an effective tax rate of 50 cents in the dollar on everything they earn over $14,000 or so. And if they complain, they’re not men who are taxed to poverty, they’re “deadbeat dads” who “don’t want to support their children”.

And remember – this is the default position for all fathers, no matter how good a father they may be and no matter whether the child’s mother would prefer that the father continue to be allowed to pay directly towards the child’s upbringing.

Yes, there are “deadbeat dads” out there, who inseminate women and don’t give a damn about their offspring. But even with them, taxing them at 50% and giving the mother (who’s often as feckless as the father) a small portion of that which may or may not be spent on the child does nothing for anyone except the IRD.

I agree entirely with D4J about the judges, the courts and especially the IRD people charged with administering this heartless, greedy regime. Australia has just undertaken a major review of it’s system, which used to be much like NZ’s, and come up with a fairer and more just formula not only for financial contributions but issues such as time spent with each parent etc.

That review was started by a Coalition government, welcomed by a Labor opposition and has come into force under a Labor government. So it doesn’t seem to be a difference in political philosophy that’s holding things back in NZ.

Therefore I can only conclude that it is due to either:
a) greed on the part of politicians who don’t know how to manage an economy and see separated fathers as an easy source of income; or
b) a feminist outlook (not so much a conspiracy, but a shared set of values amongst those who administer the scheme, certainly).

I’d tend to opt for “all of the above”. The irony is, while some women (those with private incomes and wealthy husbands from whom they’ve been able to extract generous divorce settlements) may benefit, the women on the lowest rungs of the ladder – those on benefits who have decent former partners – are hugely disadvantaged by this regime.

Still think it’s necessarily a good thing in every case, Paul?
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June 10, 2008 3:33pm
kiwitoffee

Paul

You just don’t get it, do you. Have a nice afternoon.
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June 10, 2008 3:35pm
Paul

what don’t i get, meaningless terms apparently representing real life.

Show us the great feminist conspiracy. You haven’t shown any evidence, just standing behind some ideological gobbledegook. Just by stating that I don’t get it, isn’t evidence of a bloody feminist conspiracy. To paraphrase Tom Hanks, “SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE”

Rex, this still isn’t evidence of a feminist agenda or conspiracy. This suggest that there is just some fundamental flaw in the policy that has been set into law. If at a rough guess 65% (is that too low) of MPs are males, and this is a serious issue, why hasn’t this been changed.

What do you agree about the judges? If the role of the judiciary is to uphold the laws of the land (as we have seen today with the abortion ruling) then surely they are only reflecting the direction of the highest court in the land, the government. They can suggest ways forward (forshore and seabed) but then political reaction to that may not be what the courts or the people want. If this is a failing in a system, then change the bloody system, or the people that put the system into place. I can’t see National making great strides in this area, why, well because we wouldn’t bloody know what most of their policies are.

“see separated fathers as an easy source of income” too cynical, that’s one hell of an assumption.

Finally did I say that it was a good thing in every case. My position is that males if in paid employment should provide where possible for the child. This surely isn’t an evil position to take. If individual cases are screwy, there must be some underlying problem or reason. All I said was, glad to hear he’s paying child support, as there are a huge number out there that aren’t.

Still no evidence of a feminist agenda, and wow what power you have all bestowed upon women in NZ, how far have we come, bloody brilliant.
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June 10, 2008 3:50pm
big bruv

Paul

“Still no evidence of a feminist agenda,”

Where the hell have you been for the last eight years?
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June 10, 2008 3:55pm
Paul

Further, as NZ has one of the worst policies towards paid parental leave (maternity) in the OECD or western world, how bad a job has this feminist conspiracy done if they can’t even sway the MPs into giving them anything near what some countries are doing with the most important and basic of roles in society.

Also if one of the most basic roles of the parents is to raise kids, how crap a job is the feminist conspiracy, in that a huge percentage of families have both parents working, and grand parents and caregivers doing the role that one of the parents (for old time sake lets say the women) did.

I would say that on these two front’s alone the great feminist conspiracy has failed miserably.

(back to prostate cancer and the like, do we dare mention Herceptin)
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June 10, 2008 3:56pm
getstaffed

good post Rex – thank you.
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June 10, 2008 4:03pm
getstaffed

Paul, if really can’t see any evidence of a feminist agenda (highly co-ordinated or otherwise) at work in NZ in the last decade then you’re involved in ostrich-style observation.
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June 10, 2008 4:14pm
sonic

I agree with getstaffed, there is a definate agenda of women not wanting to be treated as second class citizens…
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June 10, 2008 4:17pm
Paul

getstaffed, the inability of anyone in this post to argue what exactly is direct evidence of a feminist post is rather alarming.

Once again, if you say so “if really can’t see any evidence” just doesn’t make it so.

Sonic, well done.
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June 10, 2008 4:25pm
getstaffed

Actually sonic you’re right. But that outcome isn’t achieved by disenfranchising men. Unless of course you’re a socialist who believes that equality is attained by dragging everyone down to the same low level.

Paul: I’d be interested in your response to Rex’s post
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June 10, 2008 4:25pm
Paul

whops, that should of course read.

“direct evidence of a feminist agenda in this post…”
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June 10, 2008 4:31pm
Paul

getstaffed, I did reply to Rex.

“disenfranchising men” would that be when the all blacks isn’t the biggest sporting team in the country, or when male spots out number female sports by about 5 or 6/1 every night on tv sport.

As for the ideologically incorrect interpretation of socialism, sorry that you have such a poor understanding of the ideals of socialism. But then through a lack of understanding we will always see stereotypes and misinformation.

Still waiting for the evidence, rather than the grandiose statements disguised as fact.
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June 10, 2008 4:36pm
big bruv

Paul

Are you serious about the coverage of female sports?, do you really believe in equal coverage for a far inferior product?
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June 10, 2008 4:42pm
getstaffed

come come paul, that’s just silly. more women’s buy women’s mags than do men, and more men watch rubgy than do women. more hookers are women than men and women spend more on shoes than men. but all that’s nothing to do with the discussion.

so tell me, why isn’t there a Ministry of Men’s Affairs? And why is it that more men die from prostate cancer than women do from cervical cancer yet the funding of prevention programmes doesn’t reflect that distribution?
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June 10, 2008 4:45pm
kiwitoffee

Paul

There’s quite a difference between an agenda and a conspiracy.

Ms. Clark, Mr. Barnett et. al. have implemented a feminist agenda – they don’t like masculinity, they do like the idea that women can do anything (clearly not true, neither can men) and that women should go first at all times, except when a man opens the door for them, which they hate.
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June 10, 2008 5:05pm
Rex Widerstrom

Paul says:

Rex, this still isn’t evidence of a feminist agenda or conspiracy.

I said feminist outlook, informed by the writings and teachings of academics in polisci, womens’ studies, sociology and other departments (many of them men). I don’t think “feminists” meet in a smoke filled room somewhere plotting the downfall of society, but rather that family law starts from the assumption that a father has committed a grave sin in separating from the mother of his children and everything he does from that point on is merely to mitigate his “punishment” as opposed to what is best for the child.

This suggest that there is just some fundamental flaw in the policy that has been set into law. If at a rough guess 65% (is that too low) of MPs are males, and this is a serious issue, why hasn’t this been changed.

Partly because women with a feminist mindset have held key positions of power in the legislature and judiciary for some time. But mostly because the proponents of the present unfair system have been very successful in painting all separated fathers as bludgers, earning a fortune and denying their kids the basics. Any move to ease their burden risks an MP being characterised as “helping out deadbeat dads”. And because separated fathers aren’t a successful lobby group and don’t vote as a bloc.

What do you agree about the judges? If the role of the judiciary is to uphold the laws of the land (as we have seen today with the abortion ruling) then surely they are only reflecting the direction of the highest court in the land, the government.

Judges have considerable discretion and a friend who is fighting for custody at present has seen his status change from “mentally ill stalker” to “concerned father” (and rightly so, considering the mother is a methamphetamine user) simply because of a change in judge and a shift in attitude.

I can’t see National making great strides in this area

Oh I agree totally. They are even more to blame, I feel, as less of their MPs are of an academic background!

“see separated fathers as an easy source of income” too cynical, that’s one hell of an assumption.

Wait till you’ve dealt with someone from IRD Paul. I’ve even had the Australian Child Support Agency – renowned for taking a tough line with Australian payers – comment on the unyielding attitude of the IRD Child Support Unit.

My position is that males if in paid employment should provide where possible for the child. This surely isn’t an evil position to take.

It’s the same position I take and, albeit that no one but the richest amongst us can afford to live comfortably on an income that represents 40 – 50% of our gross wage, if the IRD took the money and ensured every cent was spent on the child there’d be some justification for it. But as I’ve said, that’s far from the case – most of it goes into the Treasurer’s pocket.

And where there are cases in which the father, the mother, and the child / children (if they’re old enough) do not want an arbitrary regime imposed upon them, the mere fact that the state is paying the woman a welfare benefit should not entitle the government to anything more than a refund (from the father) of the pittance they pay the mother toward the child.

You’ve posed questions so let me ask you one. Why is it that the State can step in and over-ride the wishes of both parties and impose a regime on the father which sees his child or children receive less than they would otherwise receive, if not to “punish” the man for “leaving” the woman (though in fact it’s often vice versa or by mutual consent) which is prima facie evidence that policy is being driven by a feminist outlook?
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June 10, 2008 5:26pm
dad4justice

Sonic ; My lady friends and my daughter will testify I’m extremely female friendly, however I detest the radical feminist mentality that has hijacked this Nation since the 70’s. Many kiwi men are made in New Zealand wimps, who are unable to appreciate their own masculinity and they feel they’re insipid,insecure, inferior and inadequate. Soft males and hard females like Clark,Wilson, Dyson, King,Bardford,etc…etc….. has unleashed the fury of hostility against manhood. I call these women hateful feminazi pigs !!
Radical feminists with hateful agendas saturate ALL GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS !!! Time for balance? Please!
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June 10, 2008 5:36pm
kiwitoffee

Paul

Teaching. The decision to link primary school teachers (mostly women) salaries with that of secondary teachers (more men than in primary) is just one example of the feminist agenda at work.

Look at any copy of the Education Gazette – loads of pictures of women teaching and girls learning, far fewer of men and boys.

Consider the feminist Geography nonsense coming out of, for example, Waikato University.

It’s all there.

Oh, one other thing. Boys – I hear constantly – are underachieving in our schools. I wonder why.
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June 10, 2008 5:56pm
dad4justice

Kiwitoffee – boys are leaving school with shattered self esteem levels due to the feminist education system . The problems for society are horrific and obvious , just look at our incarceration rate for Maori boys. If you are a delerious communist green then you can talk crap on TV every night,but other than that it’s business as usual. Police are to administer a short – sharp shock on DV allegations says Ms King a women who skins the truth and stuffs it with a lie every second of the day ! My advise to young dads get out while you can as the feminazi’s will hurt you !
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June 10, 2008 6:06pm
JSF2008

DAD ,did you enjoy the dom post today , Tuesday
front page , the plods (police) as slow as sin to the shooting, and waiting till the indian was nearly dead before letting
medical help to be given
page 3, 4 elderly vicious plods (police) batton and pepperspray a mentaly impaired person, the use as if they own the [peppersray factory ) ,(GAS MASKS were required,) the plods forgot about the ccvt cameras, silly (ongoing court trial)
TV3 6.00pm news,the RICH rapist friend of the raping police is back in court, dispute over his VERY VERY lenient parole, loved the shot of the non admiting rapist backing out of his property in his new bemmer love his 3ltr turbo deasel ,raping pays
my point who is the biggest gang in the country the crims OR???? , a cop seems to be up on some charge most weeks
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June 10, 2008 6:33pm
Paul

“do you really believe in equal coverage for a far inferior product”

says you. I have a household full of women who all play sport and they have just given up on sports news. Fair enough too. What a silly comment.

I believe in fair and equal coverage for whomever is playing sport, and if we were to take your position, how do you account for the coverage the all blacks get?

Toffee “Ms. Clark, Mr. Barnett et. al. have implemented a feminist agenda” look just saying so, doesn’t make it so. Name one thing that they have done that is to the advantage of women at the expense of men? Jesus this is just bloody silly. All I ask for is some bloody proof of this.

“The decision to link primary school teachers (mostly women) salaries with that of secondary teachers” You dork, this was an inititative that showed that primary education is as important as any form of education, and was a move to entice men into the profession, this isn’t a feminist agenda.

Dad “feminist education system” what fucking “feminist education system”. Jesus people you sound as delusional as fanatical religious zelots. Just screaming so doesn’t make it so. If males are failing in education, there are more reasons than a supposed “feminist education system”, which by the way is of course a load of shit answer. I’m shocked you didn’t throw in ‘common sense’ and ‘PC’ with regard to the “feminist education system”.

Dad the reasons boys are leaving education ‘shattered’ (if this is the case at all) start with a myriad of reasons, all of which have nothing to do with a mythical “feminist education system”. I mean define this “feminist education system”. There are 100 reasons boys are failing at school, a good old socialist like me would assume that is due to the system relying on a certain percentage needing to fail, as there is no way the system can accommodate everyone achieving. I mean we all can’t be CEO’s, someone needs to collect the rubbish. Lets start with peer pressure. As a MALE teacher in a co-ed school, it wasn’t cool to be seen to even answer a question in class, but as a MALE teacher I was aware of this, so there were other ways you could engage boys. Then there were the pressures outside the classroom, girls and sport and jobs and cars and parents. Between girls and sports and jobs some of my pupils had 1 million reasons why homework was never done. I had 5th Form boys (big Samoan boys) being bouncers at the pub in Cuba St at 1,2,3am – hardly the place for a young man on a school night. Still I could have been a good feminist and dobbed them in – eh lads.

Hmmm Geography at Waikato.

Stage 1, typical Human and Physical Geo 101 stuff – shocking.
Stage 2 introduction to area studies and scientific geography – shocking
Stage 3 Bugger me, 1 out of 17 papers focuses on gender issues. Considering that it’s not even compulsory – reprehensible

Postgraduate study, mostly about planning (considering it’s their speciality, that and populations not surprising)

But back to Geog 309 Gender, Place and Culture (how dare they even include that.

“This paper is a forum for debate in human geography on ‘difference’. Key concerns are the intersections between gender, ethnicity, sexuality, nationality, class, age and other social divisions in relation to space, place and environment.”

Turns out that Gender is only 1/3 of a semester paper, so in all probability 3.5 weeks on gender issues, which in the field of human geography is actually valid. This is shocking stuff, I can see what you mean, the Feminist education agenda is just shocking at Waikato.

Kiwitoffee, keep your kids away from Geography at Waikato, they’ll be raving lesbian feminists. Mind you they probably should exercise their free will and not take GEOG 381 Social Geography at Otago either, bloody feminists get a look in there too – “Geographies of difference, class, gender, ethnicity and sexuality are reviewed before contemporary studies of identity, power and social action are mapped through different case studies and scales”

Phew my old school Canterbury sticks to development and my favs the periglacial landscapes etc, no bloody feminists there – phew.

But then you see bloody Victoria ruin it and offer “GEOG 312 – Gender and Development”, still 1123 odd papers isn’t too bad. I guess the Registrar at Victoria had his/her back turned when they slipped that one in. Still good to see advanced geophysical meterology is still offered by my old friend Dr Jim McGreggor – big hulking Scotsman, the most disorganised room you’ll ever see, but what a brilliant mind. You literally have to walk between the stacks of books and boxes to get to his desk.

Rex

“writings and teachings of academics in polisci, womens’ studies, sociology” we shouldn’t be teaching these issues – really?

“Wait till you’ve dealt with someone from IRD Paul.” Done that, very friendly people, they love my student loan though – so does national these days. They were awesome in helping me with GST issues and starting business – guess I just didn’t deal with the right radical feminist.

In asnwer to your final question, I don’t know. Does this happen in every case or just a case you were close to? I have a funny feeling that this isn’t the position by default of the ‘system’. Sorry I don’t know enough about this case, and as a rule I try to stay to topics I know something about. Sorry if you have valid claims, everyone does from time to time in dealing with the state, it’s a big ugly machine that will gobble people up and spit them out without a second thought.
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June 10, 2008 10:20pm
Patrick Starr

Paul, Fuck off!
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June 10, 2008 10:28pm
dad4justice

Clearly this Paul is suffering from delusions of grandeur and his insane ramblings present an image that represents manhood at its worse. What a disgraceful sicko. I feel very sorry that such a pitiful human being is allowed anywhere a school, let alone children.
This guy should be in a psych ward asap.
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June 10, 2008 10:29pm
getstaffed

Hmmm, Dad I agree. Based on some of Paul previous posting I do worry about what kind of education our kids might be getting… if he’s in any way typical of our teaching community. I’m all for diversity of thought but there’s a limit. I’d like to think that our kids are being inspired to work hard, secure good jobs, provide responsibly for their families, not look to the state for support etc. These concepts are hardly first-cabs-off-the-rank in terms of the road to socialist nirvana.
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June 10, 2008 10:39pm
Paul

“Paul, Fuck off”

Welcome to the debate, nice to see you’ve added something of substance. I’ll take that you have nothing to add and therefore there is no feminist conspiracy/agenda in education, or you just have a brian that is incapable of discourse. Does hurling abuse at someone stir loins or something, is this a silver back chest beating thing?

“suffering from delusions of grandeur” Hmmm not sure where that comes from sunny. Somehow the ability to argue is seen as something unmanly now. Seemingly yelling abuse at someone is manly. “What a disgraceful sicko” What fucking part of that post of mine in response to the debate is sick. Go on big balls scream all you like but your inability to argue is somewhat lacking. Seriously Dad, was I advocating kiddie porn, was I advocating the merits of defecating in one’s mouth, no you moronic wanker I was stating my point of view.

There was a suggestion that Waikato was overrun in the geography with some sort of Feminist agenda, I went and looked at the evidence, found this claim to be false and proposed a counter argument.

I would actually put it to you, big balls, that you are the one who is an affront to males everywhere. You are the one who is denigrating the grate name of males. You and your continual crusade to hold the precious place of the male, when the evidence just doesn’t show that this is in anyway in question, you are the one who is belittling men. Men in my world are strong of conviction and can stand and argue their convictions, not cower behind abuse and lies. Go on sunshine, where the fuck was anything sicko about my post. You can’t because there isn’t any.

Because you don’t agree with me, you’re advocating a mental hospital. Is this how the right represses contrary opinion? Go on grow some fucking kahunas and stand and argue you whimp(s). Fuck off I mean really, was there some sort of dopamine released when you typed that, did you feel good?

getstaffed, where in any of my posts do I advocate an education method that doesn’t inspire kids to work hard, secure good jobs and provide responsibly for their families. Oh that’s right nowhere, it’s because you don’t agree with me, I must be some socialist monster, and as such they are all for the state running everyone’s lives. This of course is all built on your stereotypes and fears. You are of course wrong and embarrassingly so. My classes consistently achieved higher than average scores, I strove for excellence, I even got 2 students to LSE, 1 to Harvard and another into Brown. My sports teams produced 5 New Zealand representatives and I took the first ever squad from my last school to their national championships for the first time ever.

But I don’t need to prove myself to any of you, whom are just too lazy/dumb or arrogant to engage in any meaningful debate. I thank Rex for taking the time, sorry I couldn’t answer all of your questions, but then that’s debate isn’t it.

So Dad the challenge was to debate, and all we get is abuse and censorship, getstaffed, pull your head out of your ideologically indoctrinated arse and try debate.

So there’s a limit eh, and that limit seems to be when you say so. Hmm there are a few books here than need your approval.
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June 10, 2008 11:37pm
Patrick Starr

Take a pill Paul – look at the polls – You guys are fucked
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June 11, 2008 12:03am
Rex Widerstrom

Whew… while by no means disagreeing with everything you say, Paul, I’m beginning to wonder if you’re bothering to try to understand what I’m saying here.

“writings and teachings of academics in polisci, womens’ studies, sociology” we shouldn’t be teaching these issues – really?

Nothing I’ve written suggests I’m taking that position. I was merely pointing out that if a feminist perspective is brought to subjects, it’s more likely to be in these fields than in, say, geography.

guess I just didn’t deal with the right radical feminist.

Nowhere have I said the staff of the IRD are radical feminists. Rather they are heartless, often arrogant bureaucrats, many of whom seem to derive more than a little enjoyment from exercising – to it’s fullest extent – the power granted them by the legislation.

Does this happen in every case or just a case you were close to?

Put it this way… the punitive, heartless and overbearing approach has been taken in every single case of which I’m aware. That’s no more than a small percentage of the total, but the polls are a sample of a small percentage of the population and they’re not a bad indicator of the way things are.

I have a funny feeling that this isn’t the position by default of the ’system’… the state [is] a big ugly machine that will gobble people up and spit them out without a second thought.

I agree with you. In fact I even used the term “default position” in an earlier comment. But the State is only an ugly machine if the people populating it choose to allow it to be. For instance I’ve dealt with smart, caring, professional staff at WINZ, and flinty hearted bureaucrats who clearly delighted in frustrating any attempts at doing what was best for their “customer”. All were consulting the same rules. When it comes to the IRD’s enforcement arm (as opposed to the call centre people who provide you with advice) I’ve found no willingness at all to compromise or to work towards a solution that’s best for all concerned (other than the State).
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June 11, 2008 1:21am
getstaffed

getstaffed, where in any of my posts do I advocate an education method that doesn’t inspire kids to work hard, secure good jobs and provide responsibly for their families

Nowhere… and neither did I accuse you personally of this. But thanks for the boasting insights into your teaching prowess.

You are of course wrong and embarrassingly so … getstaffed, pull your head out of your ideologically indoctrinated arse and try debate

Paul, for someone who weighs in on the merits of debate, its comments like this that makes any debate with you quite pointless.
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June 11, 2008 9:10am

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