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May 29, 2008 7:10am by David Farrar

Relative Spends

Says it all. Emerson in the NZ Herald.

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infused

Good one haha.
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May 29, 2008 7:45am
PaulL

$1.5 billion?
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May 29, 2008 8:14am
Murray

Hidden costs, extras, lunch and a taxi ride home. It all adds up Paul.
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May 29, 2008 8:21am
dave strings

Go you good thing
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May 29, 2008 8:28am
Rocket Boy

Nice to see the Mars probe gets mentioned on this site! Normally kiwiblog is a science free zone.
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May 29, 2008 8:34am
Murray

Yet not a geek free one.

Interesting.
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May 29, 2008 8:39am
GPT1

Brilliant
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May 29, 2008 9:28am
getstaffed

Hilarious !
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May 29, 2008 9:28am
NoCash

What good is sending a probe to Mars for Labour? They already have the “green” creatures by their side. On the other hand, an old train set shows they care for the poor… right?!
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May 29, 2008 9:52am
ghostwhowalks3

Nasa spent a lot more than that.
They used a lander from a previous cancelled mission ( which went way over budget) but had a lot of hardware completed. It only needed the software to be updated and the cost of the launcher into space which would be most of the ‘$400 mill’
Consider it a double Fisking
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May 29, 2008 9:58am
PaulL

gww3. Its a freaking cartoon.
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May 29, 2008 10:12am
aardvark

Makes a mockery of the government’s claim to be right behind the push to create a knowledge-based economy in NZ doesn’t it?

If just a portion of the money spent on that delapidated toy train set were invested in some of the creative and innovative ideas generated by smart Kiwis, the payback would be *enormous* and we wouldn’t remain so reliant on shipping bags of milkpowder over vast distances using an increasingly expensive resource (transport fuel).

How long before the government wakes up and realises that unless NZ develops a robust KBE, the cost of transport is going to kill many of our existing export industries as well as the tourism industry?

Why are they still playing “head in the sand”?

I fear that by the time the penny drops, it’ll just be too late.

Too many of our best and brightest will already be working in Oz (or elsewhere) and the few we have left will find it even more difficult to get venture capital — because so much of NZ’s GDP will be tied up in supporting the jobless in the wake of more factories closing and shifting operations to China, Thailand, Indonesia or wherever the labour is cheapest.

Instead of worrying about who’s doing what at luxury resorts, how about paying attention to the critical issues that will determine whether we sink or swim as a nation in a world where transport costs make the mass export of physical products very, very expensive.
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May 29, 2008 10:13am
NoCash

What good is sending a Mars probe for Labour? They already have the “green” creatures by their side. On the other hand, an old train set surely shows that they care about the poor… right?!
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May 29, 2008 10:24am
ghostwhowalks3

meanwhile also in the US…
“By using railroads, we are achieving some economy on fuel,” said Dan England, chairman of C. R. England, a family-owned company based in Salt Lake City that runs 3,600 tractor-trailers and now regularly loads 350 of the trailers on railroad flat cars to get them from, say, Chicago to Los Angeles.
NY Times

Fancy that using the railroads to carry the trucks AND their load
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May 29, 2008 10:59am
Falafulu Fisi

Aardvark said…
Too many of our best and brightest will already be working in Oz (or elsewhere) and the few we have left will find it even more difficult to get venture capital.

Yes, correct. In the last few years, I know some of the best PhD candidates from University of Auckland School of Engineering , Physics Department, Computing who had been whisked overseas with good job offers in their respective fields. They couldn’t find work here, since their fields are so specialized that those industries are only available overseas. From what I’ve heard from their supervisors, most of these candidates went to present their papers in symposiums & conferences, where agents of big corporations are scouting for talents in these sort of events. One guy (Physics Department) got 2 different job offers from different competing vendors (Corning Corporation & Lucent Technologies) in the same morning, just after he came down from the podium after his presentation. Agents were waiting in the foyer to harass him for his signature. This guy specializes in optical tele-communication systems (fibre-optics & opto-electronics). He returned to the country, submit his thesis, and then took off again. Another guy from the Robotics Division at the School of Engineering, Mechanical Department , was offered a job by a Microsoft agent (which he accepted) even before the conference started. Apparently, the Microsoft agent told this guy, that they (Microsoft R&D US division) had read a previous paper of his , which was published in the IEEE Intelligent Information and Engineering Systems journal, which they were impressed with his new proposals & developments described in his paper. Microsoft R&D US were initially going to approach him at Auckland University, but they happened to notice his name on the Berkeley conference attendees list, so they thought to approach him there. Same thing happened, this guy came back, completed & submitted his thesis , then took off to Redmond (Microsoft). His supervisor at the Engineering school told me, that him and his former student (now Microsoft employee) had patented their new development (algorithm) via the UniServices (Auckland Uni commercial branch), he feared that Microsoft was really aiming to steal their (him and his student) idea and developed it into commercial use by Microsoft. I have only described 2 cases here, but there are more knowledgeable & bright NZers that we have lost to overseas big money.

Such knowledge could be retained in New Zealand, if Venture Capitalists are willing to fund top notch guys as described in my example above, to start a business here.
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May 29, 2008 11:21am
tom hunter

Normally kiwiblog is a science free zone.

Not at all. I’m sure you will find the denizens of this blog are very interested in:

– GPS directed falling objects

– Difficult to detect planes

– Jihadist watchers

– And No Dong nullifiers

Not to mention, coming to a future possibly near you – directed energy devices!

Who said science was boring!
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May 29, 2008 12:13pm
sonic

The proble only cost $438 million?

Care to add how much the launcher that took it into spce cost? or how much the control room running the mission costs a day.

Who is costing these things for Emmerson, a bunch of ex-blue chip accountants? the guys from Bear Sterns?
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May 29, 2008 12:54pm
Lance

Falafulu Fisi
It’s more than just that.
The entire environment here knocks innovators, makes them jump through hoops and then reluctantly administers measly little piddling grants/investments.
The message is, if you want good money in NZ, play rugby or something, work for the govt at the consultant level, or grow something valuable.. everyone else fuck off.
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May 29, 2008 12:59pm
getstaffed

sonic, you can hire you own forensic accountant to get the truth, or just laugh at the absurdity of the comparison. i would imagine that the probe ‘cost’ well north of $1b… but then so did the rusty old train set. whatever… that cartoon is pretty funny IMHO
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May 29, 2008 1:03pm
He-Man

Even a rusty old train is of more use to me than some stupid lego toy that flew to Mars.
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May 29, 2008 1:17pm
RRM

Not that a space probe on Mars is going to be very effective at mundane tasks like (say) moving milk to the fonterra plant in Hawera or getting me to work every morning, but hey if that cartoon helps you all keep the hate going then yay for that!
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May 29, 2008 1:22pm
getstaffed

He-Man…. perhaps they’re both equally as useless?!? But think of how many more beneficiaries we could have created to mop up the $1b if Cullen hadn’t pursued his 6yr’s old fantasy. Oh the waste.

Perhaps we could put Cullen in the next Mars probe. After 10 months of talking to himself even he might become sick of the sound of his own voice.
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May 29, 2008 1:33pm
tom hunter

Ground control to Rocket Boy…….Come in Rocket Boy…… Do you acknowledge, Over?

A fellow representative of the New Left wishes to discuss the relative merits of science and exploration to humanity.

Please discuss with each other off-line, or at least off this blog.

I think the intellectual left are taking over this blog
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May 29, 2008 1:39pm
Lance

He-Man
None of this innovation / exploration / research rubbish aye!

I guess the hugely complex systems in your cellphone just happened by itself, the sky transmissions have nothing to do with space and pacemakers are just another toy.
All that crap about quantum mechanics is useless when we know a few good rugby playing blokes with chainsaws were the real inventers of the computer.
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May 29, 2008 1:49pm
dad4justice

With names like she man, sonic and rocket boy lurking about the area, who said that Martians couldn’t be driving the engines in the alien Dr Caustic Sullen train set.
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May 29, 2008 1:53pm
stephen

And still, we’re consistently ranked as having one of the most business friendly regulatory environments in the world…
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May 29, 2008 2:04pm
dad4justice

Stephen, tell that to the many redundant freezing workers this year.
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May 29, 2008 2:05pm
Lance

Stephen
And where to do we rank for R+D……. yea…. we suck.
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May 29, 2008 2:07pm
Rex Widerstrom

stephen says:

And still, we’re consistently ranked as having one of the most business friendly regulatory environments in the world…

Yes, and a brothel is one of the most sex-friendly environments in the world. But just letting a handful of people screw anyone else if they have enough money may well be “friendly” but it’s far from desirable.

I’d imagine, from your other comments, that you’d be amongst those who decry “big business”. Yet our “environment” does nothing to foster innovation, R&D and growth amongst small business (who employ most of our workers) and in many cases creates a hostile environment for them.

But if you’re a multi-national wanting to flog off a rusty trainset to a dipstick Finance Minister, then yes I guess we’re very friendly.
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May 29, 2008 2:15pm
Murray

This is another important technological step needed to help develop new systems and help us progress to a point when we can send the greens, ghostwhotalkscrap, chronic and all the rest of them back to their home planet.

The poor little dears have no place on ours and are like fish out out of water.
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May 29, 2008 3:38pm
labrator

“By using railroads, we are achieving some economy on fuel,” said Dan England, chairman of C. R. England, a family-owned company based in Salt Lake City that runs 3,600 tractor-trailers and now regularly loads 350 of the trailers on railroad flat cars to get them from, say, Chicago to Los Angeles.
NY Times

Fancy that using the railroads to carry the trucks AND their load

Los Angeles metropolitan area is home to nearly 12.9 million people
Chicago Metro population 9.5 million people.
Road distance from Chicago to Los Angeles = 3250 kilometres
Valid comparison to New Zealand?

Great cartoon!
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May 29, 2008 4:54pm
ghostwhowalks3

Distance from Wairarapa to taranaki, less than 200km . Milk trains run every day rather than tankers going all the way AND running back empty. Log trains run through out the NI.
Coal trains are lined up btween the West Coast and Lyttleton, the single track is at capacity ( Coal mining is now twice the tonnage that it was in 1945)

more details on polar lander from nasa
http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2008/05/the_actual_cost.html
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May 29, 2008 5:18pm
ISeeRed

tom hunter: how could you neglect to mention global warming/climate change? The, er, “science” of that is frequently debated here. 🙂
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May 29, 2008 5:34pm
aardvark

> And still, we’re consistently ranked as having one of the most
> business friendly regulatory environments in the world…

Yeah, right up until you try to raise some finance for your hi-tech venture, then you find that we’ve got such a distorted economy that every man and his dog is investing in unproductive things like property.

That sucks.
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May 29, 2008 5:48pm
Steve

What NASA has done is research for a growing need of tecnology in a modern age.
A rusty train set provides 5/8 of fuck all.
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May 29, 2008 5:55pm
Steve

Once upon a time there was a young girl named Helen who bought a donkey
from a farmer for $100. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next
day.

When the farmer drove up the next day, he said, ‘Sorry miss, I have some
bad news. The donkey is on my truck, but I’m afraid he’s dead.’

Helen replied,’ Well then, just give me my money back.’ The farmer said,
‘I can’t do that. I went and spent it already.’

Helen said, ‘OK then, just unload the donkey anyway.’ The farmer asked,
‘What are ya gonna do with him?’

Helen said, ‘I’m going to raffle him off.’ The farmer exclaimed, ‘You
can’t raffle off a dead donkey!’

But Helen, with a big smile on her face, said ‘Sure I can. Watch me. I
just won’t tell anybody that he’s dead.’

A month later the farmer met up with Helen and asked, ‘What happened
with that dead donkey?’

Helen said, ‘I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at two dollars a
piece
and made a profit of $798.00.’

Totally amazed, the farmer asked, ‘Didn’t anyone complain that you had
stolen their money because you lied about the donkey being dead?’

Helen replied, ‘The only guy who found out about the donkey being dead
was the raffle winner, when he came to claim his prize. So I gave him
his $2
back plus $200 extra, which is double the going value of a donkey, so he
thought I was a really great girl.’

Helen grew up and eventually became the Prime Minister of New Zealand,
and no matter how many times she lied or how much money she stole from
Kiwi
voters, as long as she gave them back some of the stolen money, most of
them thought she was a great person.
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May 29, 2008 5:58pm
Paul Marsden

ghostwhowalks3 (303) +0 Says:

May 29th, 2008 at 10:59 am
meanwhile also in the US…
“By using railroads, we are achieving some economy on fuel,” said Dan England, chairman of C. R. England, a family-owned company based in Salt Lake City that runs 3,600 tractor-trailers and now regularly loads 350 of the trailers on railroad flat cars to get them from, say, Chicago to Los Angeles.
NY Times

Fancy that using the railroads to carry the trucks AND their load”

Yes, fancy that. But um, err…..ever heard about the size of our tunnels??
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May 29, 2008 6:00pm
Patrick Starr

“Distance from Wairarapa to taranaki, less than 200km”

NZ taxpayer real cost about $600 per klm

228 million kilometers to Mars ,
US cost about $1.90 per klm
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May 29, 2008 6:04pm
Murray

If I give you 20 bucks can we just put Cullen in orbit?
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May 29, 2008 6:38pm
Rex Widerstrom

20 bucks oughta do it Murray. I’ll go you halves, but I bags I get to drive the 4-wheeler.
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May 29, 2008 6:55pm
Murray

Sweet.
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May 29, 2008 7:17pm
Murray

SHOTGUN!
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May 29, 2008 7:19pm
Patrick Starr

Excellent Rex, notice its a woman pilot? (the guys aren’t silly)
I’d like to see them demo it on Parekura Horimia first
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May 29, 2008 7:19pm
dad4justice

Patrick; No rocket is available to man that can propel Mr Horimia anywhere.Even space has a limit.
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May 29, 2008 7:24pm
Patrick Starr

D4J I think the slingshot would only have a skeleton left in its return, and China would be saturated with brown fatty rain
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May 29, 2008 7:33pm
dad4justice

Patrick – Mr Chinaman says, yuck, brown rain drops keep falling on my head and the red army would mobilize a 200 million strong army to smack some monks over.
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May 29, 2008 7:37pm
Patrick Starr

we could send Nome as a peace keeper – he’d confuse the fuck outta them
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May 29, 2008 7:44pm
dad4justice

A nome pill a day keeps the rogered idiot at bay.
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May 29, 2008 7:51pm
Mr Dennis

Sure it is a funny cartoon. But frankly even a rusty old train set is a better use of money than a spaceship off on a futile search for life on a planet that time and again has been shown to have no life. What a waste. Give me trains any day.
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May 30, 2008 5:43pm
Duxton

Steve @ 1758:

You bastard! You made me piss myself!

Classic!
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May 30, 2008 11:23pm

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