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March 23, 2008 10:08pm by David Farrar

Will rejoins ACT

Will de Cleene blogs on why he has rejoined ACT. An interesting read.

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Comment17

NZ Politics
ACT
Will de Cleene

Comments (17)

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Whaleoil

I think he must have got lost….Mission Bay then Grey Lynn then Mt Wellington???? I think he means Glen Innes the last remaining pit of despair in the Eastern Suburbs….someone as pale as him would be in serious danger walking around GI.
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March 23, 2008 10:20pm
Redbaiter

Wow, if the political confusion conveyed within that narrative is by any unfortunate chance anything that is typical of ACT supporters then, as a party, they’re fucked. Double fucked.
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March 23, 2008 10:33pm
Grant S

Redbaiter, you’ve made a good point. I am a member of ACT, and I am a traditionalist, social conservative; I’m not sure how that fits with ACT these days. As you would’ve noticed, many members of ACT are politically confused socially liberal right wingers / libertarians who have an all too consuming, inward focus on matters like party drugs; – and as you once said, libertarians have this constant inner struggle with ideological purity, and therefore they don’t know which way to shoot politically. Thus they render themselves absolutely useless in the struggle to contain the juggernaut of global socialism.
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March 23, 2008 11:20pm
Chris Diack

Grant S

“Thus they render themselves absolutely useless in the struggle to contain the juggernaut of global socialism”

Yes, personal responsibility and individual freedom will never combat “global socialism”

Of course one might argue that the ‘traditionalist’ response to the last century’s intellectual rise of socialism was the welfare state, often grown by ‘conservative’ parties as well as leftwing ones.
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March 23, 2008 11:42pm
clintheine

Sheesh don’t hold back now guys. I’m glad Will is back on the team.

Now now Nats, if you read what Rodney wrote on the “Armstrong” thread below, you know that ACT are on track with some bloody sane and hardly extreme policies. I fear that the years in opposition have softened you all up a little. Most of my Nat mates in the late 90’s were very excited about ACT policy… and now, it’s all about pragmatism. Ugh.

Who’s confused now? 🙂
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March 23, 2008 11:54pm
Redbaiter

“Yes, personal responsibility and individual freedom will never combat “global socialism””

Did you even read the referenced page?? Example- “Y’see, I see Act as a bridge between party political differences, not the far-right tag that the MSM are keen on reinforcing. As long as Act can provide a path to economic prosperity while assuring the rights of people to have different goals, ensuring that no-one is worse off than before, then I’m in.”

All I want government to do is provide the framework for basic services. The rest of it, I’ll take responsibility for, and win or lose, I’ll never ask for anything further from government.
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March 24, 2008 12:19am
Grant S

“Of course one might argue that the ‘traditionalist’ response to the last century’s intellectual rise of socialism was the welfare state, often grown by ‘conservative’ parties as well as leftwing ones”

Didn’t you go to varsity Chris? OK you did. Thus, you wouldn’t know what a conservative was if it bit you in the arse. Do some reading – no wonder why a more, determined and ideological confident idealogue like Charles Chauvel kicked your arse. Fool. This is exactly why you and your ilk are useless in the battle against global socialism. You got your arse kicked once, so let’s attack conservartives instead – what a weakling.

“Yes, personal responsibility and individual freedom will never combat “global socialism””

In your permissive world it sounds great! In reality, having people be 100% responsible for their actions, all of the time is a damn hard thing to do. Or hadn’t you ever noticed ?
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March 24, 2008 12:25am
Peak Oil Conspiracy

Hmmm… quoting Will de Cleene:

Well bugger me, I’ve gone and joined the Act party again. Ever since my membership with the Labour Party lapsed over a year ago…

Then further down, in a (presumably recent) letter to Roger Douglas, he says:

On a personal level, I voted Act in 2005, but I cannot honestly say that Act is going to get it [my vote] this year, way things are going.

As Gordon Ramsay would say: fuck me! I don’t know Mr de Cleene personally, and at this stage only have his blog entry to go by. This may seem harsh, but that blog entry seems to have been written by a politically confused rabbit: he’s effortlessly bunny-hopped from Act to Labour then – breathlessly – back to Act, and even then his vote can’t be taken for granted. Hell, he hasn’t expressly ruled out the possibility of voting Labour again, perhaps from the comfort of his Act membership.

I wish Mr de Cleene well, but it’d be reassuring to see him clearly articulate just what it is that he stands for (and against).
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March 24, 2008 1:07am
BlairM

Will is a good man, son of the great Labour Cabinet Minister Trevor de Cleene, and he was presumably a member of Labour for the same reason that I am a member of National – the idea that some day, one day, those parties will once again return to look after the interests of the people they were founded for.

In this regard ACT keeps both parties honest. And it seems to be Masturbaiter and Grant S who are attempting to be ideologically pure at the moment.
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March 24, 2008 1:54am
Rob Good in LA

Will has made a great choice.
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March 24, 2008 8:31am
Zippy Gonzales

Whaleoil, yeah I meant Glen Innes.

Peak Oil: I have never voted for the National party before and was reluctant to do so this year. Under a Phil Goff leadership, I might once more consider joining Labour. Never say never. For his sins, the old man joined the Nats in the 90’s and was considering standing in Tauranga to try and get rid of Winston Peters. It’s called tactics.

BlairM, good to see you at the conference too.
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March 24, 2008 8:54am
philu

“..I have issues with both the current president and vice-president of Act.

Mallett’s a wingnut and Loudon is somewhere to the right of Hitler..”

(heh..!..)

and..

“..We stand in stark contrast to Muriel Newman, who gets up on stage and declares that climate change is a fraud.

When will we be rid of this turbulent prig?..”

(heh-heh..!)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 24, 2008 9:11am
dad4justice

Phoool, I agree with Muriel and I hope she puts her hat back in the political pony ring.

Climate change is hip science that only fools addicted people like yourself. Enjoy the floods in the USA?
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March 24, 2008 9:22am
simo

Phil U – The aussie outback has turned green AGAIN!!!!!!!!!, in spite of you f&^%king idiots
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March 24, 2008 10:40am
James W

Phil you idiot. Loudon is not Vice-President of the party. Michael Crozier of Auckland is.
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March 24, 2008 11:13am
philu

just quoting the story james w..

“..in spite of you f&^%king idiots..”

gee..and there i was doing a ‘don’t rain’ dance..too..

do you realise what an idiot that statement makes you..?..simo..?

(probably not..eh..?..

you don’t ‘get’ that much..do you simo..?

(maybe talkback could be a haven for you..?

they seem ok with your level of incoherence.eh..?

and d4j..i am sure you and marion would get on like a house on fire..

ypu could try and ‘out bark’ each other..

and have a ‘great’ time..doing it..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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March 24, 2008 8:46pm
philu

“..Phil you idiot. Loudon is not Vice-President of the party. Michael Crozier of Auckland is..”

but apart from that..i am pretty much on the money..you say..?

you’re ok with the ‘wingnut’..?

and ‘the turbulent prig’..?

phil(whoar/co.nz)
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March 24, 2008 8:49pm

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