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January 10, 2008 10:35am by David Farrar

Iraq is doomed!

They’ve sent in the anthropologists!

Actually, being serious, it looks a very sensible initiative.

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Ryan Sproull

Dad,

I don’t think I’ve ever personally insulted you, but if I have and have forgotten, I apologise for it. How about we both promise not to personally insult each other? It would save us both time and energy, and make life just a little bit nicer.

I promise not to personally insult you, Dad4Justice. I may disagree with you, but if I do, I’ll disagree with your opinions and give reasons for that, rather than insulting you personally.

How does that sound?
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January 11, 2008 6:32pm
dad4justice

You stop insulting Ian Wishart then I stop .
Deal or not as nothing comes cheap boy .
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January 11, 2008 6:33pm
Ryan Sproull

Fair enough deal, Dad. I won’t personally insult Ian, and I apologise if I have in the past. I’ll continue to disagree with him, but I will do so in a respectful manner. And I invite you to point out to me any times I personally insult Ian rather than address his arguments, and I will apologise for doing so if I slip.

And you’ll promise the same with me?
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January 11, 2008 6:40pm
Tina

Still at it Andy.

You should be out milking the cows.

An aphorism to help with reality on Friday…..

Socialism is…….”The state of being an envious embittered naive underperformer with an eye on the work-product of others and a valid vote.”

Yeah, I know, just about perfect.
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January 11, 2008 6:44pm
dad4justice

Ryan you keep your word – then I keep mine. Simple as abc…
Cheers dude .
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January 11, 2008 6:45pm
Ryan Sproull

Sounds good, Dad. *virtual handshake*
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January 11, 2008 6:46pm
dad4justice

“You should be out milking the cows.”

Tina , side show bob is the cow cockie and Andy is effluent I think ?
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January 11, 2008 6:47pm
Tina

You mean Andy is all hat no cattle?
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January 11, 2008 6:48pm
dad4justice

Tina, I think he got stomped on by a angry herd of bulls ?
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January 11, 2008 6:50pm
Tina

He implied he was an agrarian socialist of some description?
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January 11, 2008 6:55pm
Spoff

On December 15, 2007 a conference dedicated to orphans in Iraq was held in Baghdad. Iraq’s anti-corruption board reported that official government statistics revealed that five million (or 35%) of Iraqi children are orphans. Wijdan Salem Mikhail, the Iraqi minister of human rights, stated the phenomenon “is one of the most passive things that grew immensely during the past few years due to destructive wars and unbridled violence in the country.”

Must be big families in Iraq!
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January 11, 2008 7:13pm
radar

“You anti Iraq anti America soviet propaganda loons…”

Oh my goodness. If anyone can workout what Redbaiter was trying to express there, please tell me, as I am afraid that I cannot.

Feel free to answer the first two questions I asked you, Redbaiter. You have been exposed as a pompous blowhard who wouldn’t know a fact if it hit him in the head.

“…but if you honestly believe that those two questions you asked are hard to answer, its a pointer to why you think the way you do.

They are obviously too hard for you to answer as you haven’t tried to yet.
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January 11, 2008 7:23pm
dad4justice

radar – Mash was real – flashback dude or what is a thunder flash or just napalm??
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January 11, 2008 7:27pm
Spoff

“Oh my goodness. If anyone can workout what Redbaiter was trying to express there, please tell me, as I am afraid that I cannot.”

Two martinis and a bottle of wine and I can almost get a glimmer. Will try some drugs and get back to you radar.

Can’t get over the size of those families. 150,000 mums and dads produced several million kids. If just one million were war orphans thats 13 kids per couple. Hang on a minute, the average family size in Iraq is five. Help me here, the drink is screwing up my maths.
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January 11, 2008 7:39pm
Andrew W

Dip4shit, timid? I’ve never had any problems saying what I think here or in person, Unlike bleater who is very very brave as long as he’s anonymouse, but I’ve heard is timid in person.
You ain’t gutless Dip4shit, I’ll give you that, but the widely held opinion is that you’re a loon, it something that obviously doesn’t bother you which is good, you shouldn’t let things you can’t change bother you.

Tina, no matter how often you call me a socialist and no matter how much you wish it were so, it’s not the case, I guess it’s annoying to have a libertarian pointing out that you can’t manage an original thought and that everything you say is parroting someone elses dogma. You’ve shown yourself to be as much a political lacky as the simplest Clark troll.
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January 11, 2008 11:16pm
radar

Still no attempt at a coherent or logical answer from Redbaiter. I take it that he has scurried off to froth at someone else for a while. Case closed.
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January 12, 2008 8:21am
Tina

Thank god you’re here Andy.

Aspersions have been cast….about the herd.

I told them you are one of our proud agrarian leftys…. sort of like Roggy….. only with a saleable skill.

There are deniers here Andy….don’t leave them in suspense.
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January 12, 2008 9:41am
Tina

Sorry , I had to recover from your “libertarian” claim.

Libers don’t have compulsory plans for other peoples lives…Andy.

See how the Glorbell Worming dogma doesn’t fit?

Libers would have much less in common with the “subsidised life” type lefties than your lack of critique of the same indicates….etc, etc.

Libertarian sounds more like you’re trying to avoid the mirror.
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January 12, 2008 9:50am
Andrew W

Global Warming is science Tina, how it’s dealt with is politics. Perhaps your comprehension skills are lacking, I’ve only ever advocated addressing it in the context of avoiding a tragedy of the commons situation.

Let’s say that the science is certain or becomes certain that AGW will be destructive, what would be your nonsocialist solution? Other than pretending that it’s all a GLWC?
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January 12, 2008 10:16am
Andrew W

While we’re on the subject Tina, here are some interesting graphs. The point to note is that land temperatures, especially NH land, and high latitude temperatures are climbing far more quickly than average surface temperatures, clear evidence of a strong forcing, and that that forcing is increasing GH gases.

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/dead-heat/

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/hit-you-where-you-live/
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January 12, 2008 10:22am
PhilBest

Ryan Sproull. Sigh. No attempt to engage with the substance of the articles on the “Lancet” study that I linked to. Just diss what the first paragraph says.

Now that first paragraph was the epitome of restraint. My conclusions are that the Bush-hating Left are a bunch of wannabe Kremlin/Pravda Orwellian lying propagandists. Shove your filthy designs where the sun won’t ever shine on them ever again will ya?
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January 12, 2008 10:27am
PhilBest

Andrew W, give your lies about human-induced global warming a BREAK will ya? An OUTRIGHT MAJORITY of scientists don’t support it, and that goes ESPECIALLY for the most experienced and respected ones. “Consensus”, and “The views of 2500 scientists”, yadda, yadda, yadda, are just LIES, LIES, LIES.
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January 12, 2008 10:30am
Andrew W

Phil, sweet dreams.
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January 12, 2008 10:30am
Tina

Alas Andy every week AGW is looking more like a lie….as you can’t fail to see, dropping the “consensus” claim as you have.

No good parroting the left’s “AGW is a science ” Andy ….there are enough highly credentialled scientists saying it’s BS….so what intelligent operators do Andy is wait and see before wasting hundreds of trillions on something that may be as big a joke as Y2K.

Then what intelligent operators do is make sure it’s AGW not just a small GW fluctuation because if it’s GW all we can do is adapt.

Then what intelligent operators do is ensure what they are doing to “stop” AGW in their own minds will have some measurable effect….not for example like NZ whose govt talks the talk but does exactly nothing….indicating they are not really believers Andy.

When Hulun sorts out and pays the $700 million carbon fines to someone in Eastern Europe and gets NZ carbon to the new reducing targets that will be up in 2012, you will have a believer.
As of now Hulun is a denier…..despite the public handwringing.

The Libers it seems are with the left who cannot afford to wait because the sense of public panic by media will be lost.

There’s not much point in pressing on with this.

Your lack of citique of anything left is revealling.
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January 12, 2008 10:41am
Andrew W

“Your lack of citique of anything left is revealling.”

You haven’t checked too many threads then, I’ve commented against the EFB, against the Bradford bill, against big govt, against soft criminal punishments, for capital punishment, for privatising the health system, sorry if I don’t let blind dogma dictate my opinion and with AGW science political dogma isn’t relevent.
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January 12, 2008 10:55am
Tina

Well good for you Andy. Peripheral Liber social issues? Economics is the definer.

Read my post above for my “nonsocialist solution”.

Here’s a hint from the markets Andy.

Watch what people do not what people say.

Except for the unwilling 3rd world there is not a single country anywhere on earth that is planning to reduce its carbon emissions next year.

Which is a great indication of how seriously govts everywhere take AGW.
They don’t.

You punters are always the last to know that the people who run the game have a better grasp of reality.

Hulun is a denier Andy….
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January 12, 2008 11:04am
Andrew W

Without rules of proprietorship Tina, there is no market, to avoid tragedy of the commons, a finite resource needs a proprietor.
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January 12, 2008 11:18am
Tina

I’ve overloaded you with new political realities….sorry.
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January 12, 2008 11:36am
PhilBest

And the ONE country whose CO2 emmissions IS dropping, WITHOUT “planning” it, is the EEEEEEEVIL, BOOOOGEYMAN, KYYYYYYOTO-DEFYING, BUUUSHITLER, U. S. Of AAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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January 12, 2008 11:42am
PhilBest

Just read this online: AGW disciples, put YOUR money where your mouth is. Bloody hypocrites.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24333
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January 12, 2008 11:55am
Redbaiter

Go Phil. stick it to the lying propagandists. i’m so sick of them and their lies and their hate US bigotry. Amazingly, they think we should continue to indulge their paranoia and nonsense with rational response. Fuck em, such bigots and ignoramuses are just not worth the effort of reason.
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January 12, 2008 12:02pm
Tina

Thanks for the info Phil….wasn’t aware that the great satan is coming in with reduced emissions…..and the link is a cracker.

You’re talking about the personal hypocrisy of the Western AGWs vs their public politics…..don’t expect the left to ever see the disconnect, let alone be embarrassed by it.

Strangely all the Labor PMs Aust has had in my time ended up multimillionaires like Key……off a salary. Must have had some good advice.
And despite the urgings of some trader friends of mine, none have decided to live simply and donate their wealth to their disadvantaged brothers……hypocrisy, the ultimate gotcha
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January 12, 2008 12:32pm
Andrew W

“Once the rest of us saw the presumed reversal (or at least slowing-down) of global warming, it would do more to convince us than any lecture or study signed by UN scientists, and it would likely add millions more to the cause.”

Except it wouldn’t, such a slowdown would be seen as proof by denialists of their beliefs, whatever the cause.

Didn’t you read my link Tina, or didn’t you understand it?
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January 12, 2008 1:17pm
Tina

Don’t take Hulun’s denier status too hard Andy….

Suck in the hypocisy…..the elites are not believers Andy.
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January 12, 2008 2:14pm
Tina

with an “r”
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January 12, 2008 2:15pm
roger nome

Only one problem there phill et al. Why should the responsible people who want to safeguard our future against climate catastrophe shoulder the burden of reducing GHG emissions alone while scientifically ignorant political dogmatists (AKA denialists) continue to lead us down an unsustainable path?

Not only would that be unjust, but it wouldn’t work. We need economically structural changes to happen in order to lower carbon emmissions to any significant degree. Having environmental free-riders just creates a “tragedy of the commons” situation – i.e. no one wants to pay the price to look after our common resource (the environment) while other people simply pay no price at all.
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January 12, 2008 2:38pm
Spoff

Radar.

About 2.30 this morning when the acid was peaking I think I found the answer. It’s down in the pre-neanderthal brain layer. Red’s expressions make a kind of sense there.
Feel like crap this afternoon. Can’t get those 5,000,000 Iraqi orphans out of my head. If the average number of kids is 3 and we assume only one parent is dead that’s 1,666,666 dead mums or dads. That can’t be right, Tina says there’s only 150,000.
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January 12, 2008 4:15pm
Ryan Sproull

Phil,

My apologies. I didn’t mean to come across as a Kremlin propagandist. I thought thought it was strange for a journalist to declare their opinion and openly admit that they’d held that opinion long before they had any evidence to back it up. I have little interest in quibbling about one of the most respected medical journals in the world just because one of its reports makes politically incorrect statements about the war in Iraq.
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January 13, 2008 1:06am

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