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October 1, 2007 10:57am by David Farrar

Electoral Finance Bill Special on One News

One News tonight has a special report on the Electoral Finance Bill. Will probably be halfway through the hour or so.

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Electoral Act

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Inventory2

Will the Free Speech Coalition get a mention?

Kill the Bill!
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October 1, 2007 10:59am
burt

I hear sonic is seeking therapy.
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October 1, 2007 11:08am
sonic

I think that if you want to position your “free speech coaltion” as anything other than a National party fromt group David you need to sort out your chum Whaleoil.

Imagine a member of the media logging in to the site and seeing this?

“the only thing the leftist lickspittles baying at us about our stance against the Electoral Finance Bill believe in is that the left is always right especially if Helen says they are…The only person stupider than Sonic, Tane and all the other hypocrites, who if they lived in Burma and criticised would be shot, is Winston Peters,”

Poor Whaleoil, even we is supposed to be wearing his bipartisan hat he just cannot help himself.

Poor little lamb.
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October 1, 2007 11:10am
sonic

Burt, reading that trainwreck of a site once a day is all the therepy I need thanks!

http://www.killthebill.org.nz
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October 1, 2007 11:11am
nih

Quick, someone baselessly speculate on bias towards your choice of random political influence, or the shitfest in the comments won’t get started before lunch ends.
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October 1, 2007 11:11am
burt

Helen leaves the country and her baby ( The EFB ) is about to get a blasting in the MSM.

She never learns eh…. every time she leaves the country the incompetent will be left in charge. Watch them make a hash of it in her absence.

Love it 🙂
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October 1, 2007 11:14am
nih

Maybe it’s a Labour tarbaby to distract the enemy with. It’s certainly an issue that’s precious to the various rich minority interests, even if the whole idea of a minority swaying an election is deluded.
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October 1, 2007 11:16am
burt

Will the MSM have the balls to ask Labour why if their $800,000 extra spending didn’t effect the outcome of the 2005 election we need to control election spending?

I somehow doubt they will take Labour on, As Whaleoil would say… lickspittles.
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October 1, 2007 11:40am
Robert Owen

OK Nih
TVNZ is biased to the left. Why have they cut the interview with the”Free Speech Coalition” to just one line which will make them seem like right wing fuckwits ?
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October 1, 2007 11:43am
Frank.

It will be interesting to see how TV1 deal with this issue. Will there be any reference to some of the more crirical submissions before the Select Committee? Great that the topic is slowly surfacing? It is worthy of a documentary.

If finances would allow, National could produce a great cartoon lampooning the whole corrupt procedure that has for ever contaminated our Legislative process in undermining the Electoral Act – a good old fashioned: “Stand and Deliver your democratic rights” theme?
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October 1, 2007 11:47am
MajorBloodnok

I would like to know if the minor parties (especially the Greens, who pride themselves on their “principles”, but also the Dunne Party who are supposed to be “common sense”) will be asked to explain their continued support for the Mugabe bill.

I wonder too, what the Labour Party Plan B is for the 2008 election? Are they waiting for JK to back down again (like he did with the failed Anti-Smacking Bill) and compromise? Or will they wheel out “State Funding of Political Parties” again? (I think the voting public is smart enough to see through that one, too.)
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October 1, 2007 11:47am
MikeE

“I think that if you want to position your “free speech coaltion” as anything other than a National party fromt group David you need to sort out your chum Whaleoil.”

Because Bernard Darnton is a totaaaaaaaaaal national supporter isn’t he!
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October 1, 2007 11:50am
Mark

Classic Sonic,

Now you want to muzzle Whale Oil all the time.

Anybody else you would like to stop from having an opinion?

Or would it be easier for you to list only the people approved by the Labour party?
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October 1, 2007 11:51am
krazykiwi

sonic, one of the things you may notice about free speech (particularly if you’re ever allowed to practice it) is that people have different styles, focuses and pet topics. the ‘trainwreck’ as you so graphically depict it is a place where these views are freely aired, rather than being read from a script with robot-like monotony.

back on topic, the timing amuses me. Helen again racing to a rugby match (by jet rather than motorcade this time) just as TV1 decides to run this story. Will they give the EFB both barrels or palm NZ off with faux-balance for the sake of their primary shareholder’s reputation?
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October 1, 2007 11:56am
sonic

I’m not saying he cannot speak, or muzzle him in any way (how could I) I’m just pointing out he is perhaps it’s not the best tactic for someone who to fronting up a “bipartisan, non-party” campaign to talk about “leftist lickspittals” or witter on about how much he detests other blog commentators (whom no-one outside blogland has ever heard of anyway)

It was only ever meant to be a bit of friendly advice, next time I’ll not bother.
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October 1, 2007 11:59am
krazykiwi

I think that if you want to position your “free speech coaltion” as anything other than a National party fromt group David you need to sort out your chum Whaleoil.”!

Hmmm, same though as MikeE. So philu is obviously a ..natman.. eh sonic?
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October 1, 2007 12:00pm
burt

sonic

You are scared aren’t you? You think that because it won’t be National party MP’s speaking the truth about Labour’s corruption people migh listen.

Run sonic run – the party will be very upset if you fail in your job of defending the indefensible.
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October 1, 2007 12:02pm
sonic

“You are scared aren’t you”

Petrified Burt, always am during the world cup.

😉
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October 1, 2007 12:12pm
burt

Thought so.

Another red herring about the world cup or is that partb of the problem because dear leader has gone and there is nobody competent enough to understand the issues?

Why don’t you stand up for the job sonic. I can see you on TV saying:

National in the 90’s once spent almost as much tax payers money as Labour stole in 1999 for the first pledge card so they are as bad a Labour.

Move on…
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October 1, 2007 12:18pm
sonic

Thats what we in the trade call a joke Burt.

I know that is probably over your head, but we can’t all be paranoid nutcases who thiink I get direct orders from Helen Clark can we?
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October 1, 2007 12:27pm
Inventory2

Sonic – serial threadjacker!

Seriously though, we are still a society that permits free speech (although the clock is ticking), and whether or not you agree with WhaleOil’s views sonic, are you disputing his right to hold or publish them?

I wouldn’t hold out too much hope for critical analysis of the EFB from the state-owned broadcaster tonight, but you never know your luck in the big city. Maybe DPF’s GPS will mysteriously direct him to the TVNZ complex!
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October 1, 2007 12:28pm
sonic

“are you disputing his right to hold or publish them?”

Nope I’mjust pointing out a teeny flaw in his approach.

You disagree with me all the time, do you hear me crying about being muzzled or oppressed?

Grow up inventory.
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October 1, 2007 12:29pm
milo

I gave up on One News when they sacked all their staff, and had 18 year old political reporters who just seemed to be reading Labour party press releases off autocue.
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October 1, 2007 12:47pm
burt

sonic

I know that is probably over your head, but we can’t all be paranoid nutcases who thiink I get direct orders from Helen Clark can we?

No we can’t. Stop thinking you take your orders from Helen – you don’t.

Now seek professional help.
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October 1, 2007 1:01pm
gd

And in Breaking News TV One presents a special report on the Electoral Finance Bill

And tomorrows Breaking News “Hitler Dead Germany Surrenders”

please dont invoke Godwins law

BYW Wrote to the Royal NZ Herald asking that they get some analysis on the EFB out to the great unwashed and even gave them the RIGHT version of the analysis.

You guessed it MSM dont like being criticised when they fail to do their job
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October 1, 2007 1:09pm
side show bob

Watching tv one news is like reading womans day but it has moving pictures. I wouldn’t hold my breath if it’s the indepth report everyone is hoping for on the EFB. Prehaps Whaleoil should employ Paris Hilton, that would get the cause heaps of air time.
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October 1, 2007 1:59pm
david

12:27 pm sonic said:

“Thats what we in the trade call a joke Burt.”

Finally outed

sonic is a professional comedian ……. certainly explains a lot. Would help if the jokes were funny tho’

[don’t know how to do the face thingy’s]
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October 1, 2007 2:35pm
dad4justice

TV one news is so pc lickspittle it makes me vomit all over me neighbors cat and I have given up on TV three as they are no better .

What ever happened to not the nine o’clock news ? Auntie Hell controls everything ? Oh well I’ll just hav to join the outta here across the ditch club too watch the news . The neighbors will be happy and Auntie Edna .
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October 1, 2007 2:59pm
gd

they will have Francesca(who ate all the pies) Mold with her usual “Helen is my hero” take on it how its all designed to stop those rich bastards buying elections Its so much better for the Socialists to do this on behalf of the ‘people” who the Socialists just want to protect.

I mean why put all these sad souls through the drama of having to tick the box in an election.

I know Lets all give our proxy vote to the Socialists Bypass the middle man. take all the difficulty of making a decision out of it.

Sooooo much easier.
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October 1, 2007 3:07pm
krazykiwi

Can can soneone volunteer to capture the TV1 story and get it up on Youtube? Can’t watch until early hours of tomorrow morning.
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October 1, 2007 3:28pm
vto

i’m scared the all blacks are going to lose to france! it’s gonna happen. i know it. every four years. every four years.
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October 1, 2007 3:42pm
adc

Actually I have to agree with Sonic on this one. Even though I do not agree with his position on the bill, and even though I may enjoy and agree with whaleoil, you can’t really see that sort of writing as objective dispassionate logical discourse.

As soon as people see the rhetoric / emotive language, they chuck the whole lot out the window (good stuff/truth and all).

So it undermines his position with the mainstream.
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October 1, 2007 3:42pm
Robert Owen

“The Free Speech Coalition is a trade association of the pornography and adult entertainment industry ”
Have i got the wrong site ?
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October 1, 2007 4:14pm
Robert Owen

Ah got it now
The Free speech Coalition…speak your mind anytime
….OK then
Brash’s emails were leaked because he was shagging one of his staffers who got jealous when he heard about Dianne I think she was right to do this
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October 1, 2007 4:26pm
georgedarroch

Here’s Helen Clark’s predictable response…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU
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October 1, 2007 4:34pm
Fletch

Just saw the segment; was good but I wish it had been longer.
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October 1, 2007 5:45pm
Robert Owen

I saw it too won’t exactly send shock waves I thought the guy crying looked a bit of a dick
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October 1, 2007 6:09pm
Wycroft

Tane’s not a dick!
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October 1, 2007 6:34pm
pdm

TVNZ don’t do `balance’ very well.

They mention the Exclusive Brethren but no mention of the theft of tax payers money, retrospective legislation or the fact that Winston First has not paid it back yet.
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October 1, 2007 6:43pm
Whaleoil

Sonic and other might not like what I have to say, but currently I have the right to say it as do they.

There should be no partisanship associated with this and I fail to see why there are called for “bi-partisanship”. This is about Free Speech folks and unfortunately Labour and its support parties have made it partisan by support such an egregious affront to our freedoms.

If they and their supports like Sonic and Tane don’t like the partisanship then they should be looking to their parties that they support to Kill the Bill.
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October 1, 2007 7:08pm
burt

But Whaleoil Labour have said the bill is good. Are you seriously suggesting that sonic and tane might actually say something that is not in keeping with the party line ?

Tane might – he actually has some valid points between the myopic support of corruption and power at any price.

sonic – Unless the official Labour line switches to “Kill the bill” sonic will defend it all the way. I think he’s just a blogbot that serves no purpose but to attempt to distract debate away from the rampant corruption of the party he is programmed to support.
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October 1, 2007 7:12pm
sonic

Burt and whaleoil. I’m (for once) trying to be constructive.

If you want to beat this bill you need support from across the political spectrum right?

The media will play up any group that it sees as “non-partisan” but will run a mile from any group that it sees as a “front” for a particular party.

Therefore when trying to float this sort of group you have to bend over backwards, curb your instincts, and avoid rhetoric that lets people write you off as obviously trying to promote a particular agenda.

We all know Whaleoil has the courage of his convictions, and I don’t hold that against him, so do I. But tactically, when you are trying to draw in wider forces on an issue you think is important, you put them to one side and work with people over what you agree on, not starting from what you disagree on.

Just my 2c
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October 1, 2007 7:23pm
dad4justice

So sonic the bill is corruption from the Labour Government ?
Yes or no ?
Just my 20 cents worth .
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October 1, 2007 7:36pm
burt

sonic

I take it back – you are not a blogbot. (well if you are somebody did a great job coding you 🙂

Your point is valid, and as you have expressed it here it makes sense. How you first expressed it in “sonic denigration of anything not Labour” speak it didn’t make a lot of sense at all.

Cheers sonic.
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October 1, 2007 7:37pm
NZTed

Sonic posting after 7pm…my goodness, have they extended your hours?
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October 1, 2007 7:39pm
burt

sonic

Whaleoil also has a point. Support for an ideology should be just that – support for an ideology. We have lost our way when we support a party irrespective of it’s ideology.

Hard core Labour supporters should be put off Labour by this bill – when Labour supporters defend this bill because it’s a Labour bill they are simply showing that they don’t give a shit about the issues – they are just a Labour gang supporter – irrespective of how bad the policies might be.
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October 1, 2007 7:42pm
vto

a sonic boom from roaring through the noise barrier
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October 1, 2007 7:44pm
dad4justice

A sonic boom labour gang supporter just farted on Mount Hell and I hope she keeps well away from the All Blacks as they don’t need no witchcraft curse.

I saw panty slut boy twitching and snoring at the select committee table?
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October 1, 2007 7:53pm
Reg

Great to see the issue up on TV1.
The fact that the state owned broadcaster is relaying criticism of Labour’s flag -ship legislative effort, in itself is substantially dramatic.
Could have been better, but remember they got to learn to walk before they run.
Robert Owen(at 6:09PM) may consider himself superior enough to belittle the emotions of a refugee from oppression, but Robert you live in a democratic system that up to now thats allowed you to express your prejudices knowing that open debate will expose arguments of little intellectual value.
I guess you are rapt that next year I will be effectively silenced but your form of elitism will be able to be amply promugated by the ruling clique using my (tax payers) money.
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October 1, 2007 7:58pm
burt

Well said Reg.
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October 1, 2007 8:06pm
tim barclay

The programme was a superficial once over. It achieved nothing.
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October 1, 2007 8:31pm
Robert Owen

“the emotions of a refugee from oppression” WTF You are having a laugh aren’t you
The bill will be changed in select committee and everyone will go back to sleep
I am rapt however that my ruling clique will be still be ruling, as is often the way with ruling cliques But I seriously doubt that you will be effectively silenced
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October 1, 2007 9:04pm
hinamanu

Get Maori Television onto this bill

They’ll milk it

Which is probably why the politicians were so against it.

But why were they against Kiwi Bank

And so silent over Kiwi saver
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October 1, 2007 9:05pm
krazykiwi

Well I saw the story too.

Firstly it’s difficult to see this live up to the tag of being a Special Report, given that the preceding morsel, about the forex-earning potential of panda bears, was much the same length and both had the depth of a small puddle.

The reporter tried hard to bring balance to the EFB discussion in much the same way as a newbie reporter might try to objectively cover a genocide.

Verdict: placationary effort designed to inform without offending TV1’s masters.
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October 1, 2007 9:06pm
hinamanu

against Maori Television that is
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October 1, 2007 9:06pm
hinamanu

good call Krazy
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October 1, 2007 9:07pm
Advocatus Diaboli

I hope the bill goes through because it will cement National Party in power for next several decades. And when National Party comes into power we will be able too silence the Liberal Left who belong to Labour & Green Party etc.
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October 1, 2007 9:10pm
Robert Owen

dvocatus Diaboli
Two wrongs don’t make a right you are morally opposed to this or not ?
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October 1, 2007 9:14pm
hinamanu

Diaboli wants a one party system

Now, what did all those men go to Europe 50 yrs ago for ??
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October 1, 2007 9:17pm
krazykiwi

he’s playing devils advocate …

i’d be surprised if more than a handful of EFB opponents would be happy to see this passed by any party for the benefit or detrement of any other party. beleive me when i say i can’t stand most f what Labour actually stands for today, but I wouldn’t ever wish the EFB to be used against them .
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October 1, 2007 9:22pm
hinamanu

oh yeah,, hence his name

I think loosely translated we get whats been lost in translation

Fascist shit stirrer
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October 1, 2007 9:26pm
Reg

Krazykiwi said
Verdict: placationary effort designed to inform without offending TV1’s masters.

Credit where credit due KK. The courageous investigative arm of Television NZ has emboldening itself to indulge in a few tentative pulls at the sisterhoods shoelaces.

AD said:
I hope the bill goes through because it will cement National Party in power for next several decades.

Except AD, that JK promised to repel it in an interview with Ian Wishart on Sunday night.
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October 1, 2007 9:27pm
Advocatus Diaboli

hinamanu

I’m not morally opposed to the bill because it will help National to get back into power. Personally it worth supporting because it will be the death Nail for Labour Party at the next election.

And National Party will be able to complete economic reforms our country needs.
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October 1, 2007 9:28pm
Frank.

The Minister of Justice gave an Oscar performance.
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October 1, 2007 9:28pm
Robert Owen

So did the guy crying
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October 1, 2007 9:31pm
krazykiwi

Oscar… he’s the troll in the trash-can on Sesame St isn’t he?
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October 1, 2007 9:33pm
Advocatus Diaboli

Reg

Do you honestly believe John Keys will repel the bill??? So I presume you believe politicians don’t lie. The bill will benefit the National Party for next several decades.
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October 1, 2007 9:34pm
Robert Owen

hinamanu
I ve started watching a lot of Maori Television its very good
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October 1, 2007 9:34pm
Lee C

Do I detect a subtle change of attitude in general discussions about this Bill? It appears that now that the party-political chest-beating is over (guilty) a kind of sadness is descending based on:

i) This Bill exists
ii) It has been allowed to exist thus far
iii) It is a retrograde step.

Those who have supported it, when backed into a corner about its perceived threat to our democracy have alsways maintained that the problems will be ironed out by the Select Committee.

But I think that even the staunchest Labour supporter has begun to realise that:
i) This Bill fails to address the issue it set out to – anonymous donations and the rich influencing elections
ii) Labour have tried to of victimise the EBs to promote this Bill
iii) It is a transparent attempt to ratify the emergency legislation around the election overspend
iv) It is a shameful episode in the history of the Labour movement.

National supporters have begun to perceive that:
i) Labour has an agenda to pervert the election process
ii) National has shown itself to be a pathetic opposition on this issue
iii) If National get elected, the Bill will be a free-ride to election success for a good few years
iv) National’s lack of effective opposition might have another agenda behind it.

Both sides of the debate have had to come to terms with the fact that where leadership is shown, it is of the wrong kind, and where leadership is needed, it is sorely lacking. What a bunch of ethical and moral cripples our politicians are.
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October 1, 2007 9:35pm
Reg

Frank said:
The Minister of Justice gave an Oscar performance.

It was beautiful wasn’t it Frank, a truly stellar example of political ineptitude graced with with an obviously inheirent ability to reinforce the impression that he was obfusticating.
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October 1, 2007 9:39pm
hinamanu

Diaboli,,

The labour party nailed themselves covertly trying to pass that anti democratic trash.

Unfortunately not enough Kiwis pick up on things fast enough. You and me cannot walk down the street and carry this conversation. Exactly what labour is playing on and no wonder she’s compared to Muldoon.

He could never have gotten away with this,, but he acted as if he had and
Helens fast falling into his trap of believing her own bull shit as well
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October 1, 2007 9:41pm
burt

Here here Lee C.

The major parties are showing themselves to be totally self serving. I note the mention above the John Key has said he will repeal this bill. Here is the ace card, it’s either just been played or the Labour party now know it’s in his hand.

Labour are doomed over this bill unless it’s a complete 100% success. Now to Labour a 100% success would probably be classified as a 75% victory in the election. Less partisan people would probably call it successful if it’s actually a fair and balanced election funding law.

If the back down now they will have the National party all over them asking them why they have defended it so staunchly thus far, if they fail to pass it they are toast, if it passes and it’s the horror it appears to be National will romp home in a landslide.

Having just heard that Wishart has interviewed John Key I’m in watch this space mode.
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October 1, 2007 9:50pm
hinamanu

But robert,,

Nationals had far more wealthier backers and yet money has not kept them in continuos power.

Perhaps if the EB’s had just quietly contributed and voted they might be happier people today
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October 1, 2007 9:58pm
Reg

Your’e right Lee C, we have a piece of legislation that has been universally reviled by legal experts.
That has been ridiculed by none other than the Human Rights commission and the law society, but those that have the most to loose politically can’t seem to gasp the importance of making it a nationwide landmark issue.
What the Nats need to do is embark on a campaign through the country with huge blank bill boards with barely readable small print saying,”We can’t say anything becuase of the EFB”
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October 1, 2007 10:00pm
burt

Robert Owen

As you said: Two wrongs don’t make a right you are morally opposed to this or not ?

Labour overspent in 2005 and validated it, yet you support them? The fact that other parties did it as well, which was the main stay of their defense, is why it was OK to validate it.

Now Nicky very recently said something else about it as well???
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October 1, 2007 10:05pm
Castafiore

I still can’t understand why the Nat’s aren’t declaring outright war about the EFB. It is such a sitting target that is so easy to completely exploit to their advantage.

The problem Sir Robert Owen is that what you trolls are pushing up hill is an ideological failed Stalinist dream.

It will only go so far but unfortunately as much as you would like to think the electorate do not perceive the threat beware. They might be sleepy but when they are roused up properly about your fraudulent theft of their freedom they will not be forgiving .

Go and cry me a river .
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October 1, 2007 10:09pm
Flagging Red Dog

This bill is going to be our downfall. Why can this bill not be withdrawn from the ballot or whatever they say about parking up a bill up until they have the numbers not forcing on the electorate when we are already polling behind.

Watch the right wing zealots jump up about this statement.

But the fact remains that this bill should have been properly researched out not a running commentary about how the select committee will fix it up.
This is third world stuff!!!
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October 1, 2007 10:21pm
Robert Owen

“ideological failed Stalinist dream”
“fraudulent theft of their freedom ”
FFS
Rightly or wrongly most people couldn’t give a flying fuck about the EFB
It will be amended in the select committee and next year if you have your policy mix right you will win power and do what the fuck you like . If you think the moral thing is to repeal the thing do it(which is what i was trying to sat Burt) you can repeal it
But as much as you lot can jump up and down people don’t care about the EFB
They do care however if they can afford to take themselves or kids to the Doctor or whether they will be able afford the phone bill next month.
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October 1, 2007 10:52pm
Patrick Dunford

Robert Owen Says:
October 1st, 2007 at 9:53 pm

or as Nicky says

Who cares what Nicky says?

“The bill’s opponents don’t acknowledge it (and some may not understand), but what’s fundamentally at issue is the ‘right’ of very wealthy people and lobbies to use their financial power to gain disproportionate influence. The bill is designed to control only those who have many tens of thousands of dollars to spend promoting their preferred party or candidates. This is fundamentally different to freedom of speech. It is more like the freedom to speak louder than or even drown out ordinary people. Once the drafting errors affecting ordinary political activity are corrected, the remaining objections are not about human rights or democracy. To the contrary, they are about the opposite: about preserving the power of the very wealthy to gain an undue and undemocratic influence over the political process.”

Note that Hager came out and said, this is the bill the Nazi party would introduce. He has now changed his tune quite a lot, hasn’t he?

Anyone can see poor old Mark Burton is now getting blamed for “drafting errors”. Yet Helen Clark has staunchly defended the Bill as have most of the other Labour ministers, without ever mentioning any “drafting errors”.

Mr Nicky Hager is firmly in the hard left camp where they never stop ranting against “the rich” and “multinational corporations” and all sorts of rubbish.
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October 1, 2007 10:54pm
Patrick Dunford

Robert Owen Says:
October 1st, 2007 at 9:53 pm

or as Nicky says

Who cares what Nicky says?

“The bill’s opponents don’t acknowledge it (and some may not understand), but what’s fundamentally at issue is the ‘right’ of very wealthy people and lobbies to use their financial power to gain disproportionate influence. The bill is designed to control only those who have many tens of thousands of dollars to spend promoting their preferred party or candidates. This is fundamentally different to freedom of speech. It is more like the freedom to speak louder than or even drown out ordinary people. Once the drafting errors affecting ordinary political activity are corrected, the remaining objections are not about human rights or democracy. To the contrary, they are about the opposite: about preserving the power of the very wealthy to gain an undue and undemocratic influence over the political process.”

Note that Hager came out and said, this is the bill the Nazi party would introduce. He has now changed his tune quite a lot, hasn’t he?

Anyone can see poor old Mark Burton is now getting blamed for “drafting errors”. Yet Helen Clark has staunchly defended the Bill as have most of the other Labour ministers, without ever mentioning any “drafting errors”.

Mr Nicky Hager is firmly in the hard left camp where they never stop ranting against “the rich” and “multinational corporations” and all sorts of rubbish.
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October 1, 2007 10:54pm
Patrick Dunford

Robert Owen Says:
October 1st, 2007 at 10:52 pm

“ideological failed Stalinist dream”
“fraudulent theft of their freedom ”
FFS
Rightly or wrongly most people couldn’t give a flying fuck about the EFB

That’s how the socialists would like it. They are wrong. Labour’s big drop in the polls all started when Helen Clark told reporters the issue of Labour taking the pledge card money at the election was a beltway issue.

It will be amended in the select committee and next year if you have your policy mix right you will win power and do what the fuck you like . If you think the moral thing is to repeal the thing do it(which is what i was trying to sat Burt) you can repeal it
But as much as you lot can jump up and down people don’t care about the EFB

Totally wrong.
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October 1, 2007 10:57pm
burt

Labour have staunchly defended this bill. One of the rising stars said this:

CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) : I rise to take a call on the first reading of this very good bill, the Electoral Finance Bill. What a shame it was to hear and see the contributions from National members in this debate, on the radio, and in the print media over the last couple of days since this bill was tabled. The reality of this legislation is that no group will get special treatment. The new rules will limit the campaigning done by everyone, including unions, business groups, and religious organisations.

See: Electoral Finance Bill — First Reading
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October 1, 2007 11:13pm
Castafiore

They care if they can afford to take their kids to the doctor.
Completely agree even I do BUT you Selma [Robert Owen] when the public realises that they won’t even be able to complain about the fact they have to pay more or less for their doctor they will care very much and they will vote with ticks on paper.

Freedom is fought for and peace is won. Your lot of socialist demented idealists postulate about hypothetical dreams with no lasting proof of a success story around the whole world of a country that has made a successful go of socialism except for two luminieres on the world scale North Korea and Cuba.

Yes Iraq , Vietnam, Nazi Germany, and Labour New Zealand. What do they have in common !!
One important factor. They believe in removing the rights of hard working achievers who have worked hard for their status in life whether it be the hard toiled farms on the Russian steppes or the small little Jewish shoe manufacturer in Berlin or the toiling rice farmer in asia. The ideological dream you extol is based on wealth redistribution and harks back to the French revolution.
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October 1, 2007 11:15pm
fishbowl

I only hope this TV1 report was not the standard by which the bill is to be judged… It was rice paper thin, no real in depth explanations as to loss of freedom of speech… Is TV 3 doing nothing ? Come on John Campbell where are you ?
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October 1, 2007 11:40pm
Lee C

Well the MSM in New Zealand is about ‘Cat caught up Tree in Hamilton’ in its attitude.
What do yo expect, it is one of the resons Helen and her ilk have prospered thus far.
pathetic.
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October 2, 2007 6:26am
Frank.

burt Says: “Robert Owen As you said: Two wrongs don’t make a right you are morally opposed to this or not ?

Labour overspent in 2005 and validated it, yet you support them? The fact that other parties did it as well, which was the main stay of their defense, is why it was OK to validate it.

Police in the first instance, approved the overspending, because like the old song “Everybody’s doing it, doing it now”. So that’s fine, we won’t prosecute.

Remember they are politicians and we don’t prosecute them. Our yardstick is Helen Clark and her forged art!
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October 2, 2007 6:32am
Lee C

Is it fair to say the majority of kiwis are politically illierate, or politically apathetic.

If so, is it because the media does little to inform them.

Therefore laws like this can be proposed, and very little is done to either expose it, and when it is, very few get excited about it.

Is the media and the present political system ‘in bed’ with each other?

If so,

Why?

Surely the media should be able to see the ‘enemy at the gates’ in the shape of this bill, or are they politically illiterate also?
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October 2, 2007 6:43am
Frank.

Lee C: Answer to your first two questions: Both.

The media and politicians are all in bed together.

Why?

Because we are such a corrupt Nation. Proof: Where else would you get a proposed EFB through Parliament. It is a corrupt piece of proposed legislation and is to our everlasting shame.
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October 2, 2007 6:57am
Lee C

BUt thre is another self-perpetuating system Frank. If the nation is corrupt then the press and the politicians are able to expolit the corruption to their own ends, because the corruption has a knock-on effect on the citizens’ willingness to be corrupted. The recent measures have indicated that NZ is in a downward spiral.
The saddest thing about it is the absolute apathy with which this spiral is endured.

The kiwis are so patriotic when it comes to the All Blacks, but so willing to sell their own democracy to the highest bidder. In this case, Labour, Greens UF and First.

Meanwhile the Labour apparatchiks scream about corruption of the electoral system as per the EB – using the highest platform in the land (Parliament) to isolate and victimise this tiny, rather flaky section of society and turn them into the fascists-under the bed which justify rorting the eectorate.

And still nothing said about the secret agenda.

Oh it turns out that National have the secret agenda, but the only secret agenda I can see is the back-room dealings of this morally indefensible bunch of creeps who are seeking to capitalise on the apathy of the voter to line their own pockets.

When China’s sphere of influence fianlly does widen to embrace the NZ system, they will find that all the hard yards have already been done – compliant media – corrupt politicians – legislation designed to suppress dissent – tick every box.

All that will be required for any system which needs to exercise an un-democratic tyranny will be to dust off these ambiguously drafted laws and use them against the public.

But as long as the All Blacks are doing well….
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October 2, 2007 8:11am
infused

Aussie, here I come!
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October 2, 2007 8:45am
sonic

Don’t slam the door on the way out!
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October 2, 2007 8:48am
david

so you crept silently away from the Clydeside sonic?
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October 2, 2007 8:56am
sonic

Made a Sonic boom David!
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October 2, 2007 8:57am
Lee C

sonic fart more like.
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October 2, 2007 9:12am
Lee C

Sorry. couldn’t resist. Ahem. shuffles embarressed, away.

sorry.
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October 2, 2007 9:16am
Inventory2

Good on TV One for at least attempting to bring the debate over the EFB into the nation’s living rooms. I normally watch 3News, and wait with baited breath for Duncan Garner to put together a similar piece. Meantime, I do note that TVNZ waited until Dear Leader and her entourage were away before running their story, but I am sure that was entirely coincidental!
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October 2, 2007 9:29am
Robert Owen

Castafiore

Qu’ils mangent de la brioche

say it all really
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October 2, 2007 9:37am
Robert Owen

here is the extra s
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October 2, 2007 9:39am
tim barclay

The Bill does not deal with secret donations nor trusts that are used to launder such money. All the Bill achieves is to silence a number of legitimate groups in election year by severely restricting their activities. It will have the perverse effect of people channeling their money to policial parties through secret trusts and leave all political activity to the political parties. It is a deeply deeply flawed bill, not assisted by the goon the Labour Party have defending it.
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October 2, 2007 9:46am
gd

Did anyone else note the profile shot of Benson Pope with that moustache he looked just like a guard from one of the concerntration camps Wooooo Wooooo Wooooo Godwins law.

The report was pathetic The chick reporters manner and words all suggested that the EFB was really nothing to worry about and only frothers and the insane were banging on about it.

Forget the MSM they are soooooooooo last century.
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October 2, 2007 10:17am

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