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May 13, 2007 11:30am by David Farrar

So true

Mike Moreu from Stuff.

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Selma Bouvier

When I came back to NZ from working in Australia in 1989 wages for my job in NZ were 20% greater here.

Since now Australia has higher wages.

Let me think what was the period from 1989 when we had low to zero wage increases
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May 13, 2007 2:21pm
Mr I.P .Freely

HE LOVES OUR(my) MONEY, usless shitter TIGHT ARSE comes to mind, ITS NOT THIS TOSSIERS money , our country will die before this nutter THINKS, GO sonic or whoever sonic is now
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May 13, 2007 4:40pm
James

When I came back to NZ from working in Australia in 1989 wages for my job in NZ were 20% greater here.”

So the Douglas revolution worked! ;-0

“Let me think what was the period from 1989 when we had low to zero wage increases”

Hmmmm…it would have included about 8 odd years of Labour governance which….oh my….would be the last 8 years would it not…?
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May 13, 2007 7:03pm
J

You’re getting it now James, the real problem with 2000 – 2007 Labour is they have failed to give the workforce the adequate bargaining power to get our salaries back on track after the disastrous wage stagnation in the 90’s .And in a period of good solid gdp growth too . They get failure marks there for not restoring employee bargaining power. It’s part of the equation of a robust economy, just ask the average Aussie worker.

Jeez remember the 90’s buddy, one year our economy actually went backwards, now what was that Finance Ministers name? Ruth something. I think even her own party fired her.
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May 13, 2007 8:57pm
James

You are kidding right…? They have all the bargaining power they need,…the freedom to move to another job….of which there are plenty going begging if the papers are anything to go by.

Regulations and compliance costs imposed on business by the State are what’s hammering workers who are trying to get higher wages…
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May 13, 2007 10:52pm
J

‘You are kidding right…? They have all the bargaining power they need,…”

You are “they” or at least most of us are “them” (workers). How’s your salary? What kind of bargaining power did you have with your employer after 7 years of great oecd gdp growth.

Most of us had surprisingly little yet the liberalisation of employment law was supposed to break us out of the shackles of union representation and provide us with better bargaining power ,and with subsequently higher salaries. That was the promise.That’s what Ruth and Bill Birch preached when they decimated our employment bargaining forum.
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May 14, 2007 12:33pm
Joe

Why some people keep blaming the govt for the not so great wages increase over the past decade? When I first joined the workforce in 1998 I was on 38k, and now I earn ~90k. I’ve worked hard over the years to advance my career, and I think that’s the key. Just because the economy has been great that doesn’t one should get paid more for doing exactly the same thing as before. If one wants a pay raise, one should work hard for it, work hard to advance. You can’t expect the govt to do everything for you.
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May 14, 2007 1:53pm
J

“You can’t expect the govt to do everything for you.”

Who’s saying that? Congratulations on your success but how do you know how hard everyone is working?

The government should keep an eye on the average bargaining power of the average worker so like in Australia we can accelerate our salaries in a heavier salary bargaining environment.

Collective bargaining is a much stronger concept than individual bargaining, that’s undisputed.That’s why employers dislike it.It’s all about bargaining. That’s how markets work.

Look at the results across the Tasman.
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May 14, 2007 3:39pm
burt

J

“Collective bargaining is a much stronger concept than individual bargaining, that’s undisputed.”

Undisputed by you perhaps. The reason employers don’t like collective bargaining is that it denies them the ability to pay good staff more, hopeless staff less. IF you firmly believe that we are all the same then I can see where you are comming from.

If however you face reality, then your statement is a crock of sh1t.

The standard MO of the unions is to achieve a CPI increase – no more no less. Now what about people who are excellent at their job… Give them a CPI increase. What about people who are useless at their job… Give them a CPI increase.

Yes it stands to reason that hopeless staff like collective bargaining – it’s the only way they can fly under the radar and get some for of pay rise rather than a pay cut or let go.

Before you loose your rag and call me hard – try running a business – try employing staff. If you have done this before and you still think collective bargaining is all about fairness then you really surprise me.

Teachers are a classic example. Their primary training is all about how to manage the disparit talents and abilities of a randomly mixed classroom. Some students race through the work and come back hungry for more, some struggle and never get it. Yet teachers all think it’s great to all be paid based on years of experience. Performance pay…. Good teacher/bad teacher – no such thing – they are all the same…. yeah right!
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May 14, 2007 5:58pm
SPC

Meanwhile in Oz polls show Labour likely to defeat the desperate tax cutting Liberal government of John Howard Abbot and Costello.

“The Galaxy poll, the first to be conducted nationally since the budget, shows Labor leading on 57 per cent to the federal government’s 43 per cent on a two-party preferred basis.

The poll also shows primary support for Labor at 49 per cent, compared to the coalition’s 39 per cent about six months from the election.”

from Stuff.
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May 14, 2007 6:08pm
J

“The reason employers don’t like collective bargaining is that it denies them the ability to pay good staff more, hopeless staff less.”

Look the past models of cb were flawed. I accept flexibility is needed especially for sme’s but the present non -system is pedestrian in it’s ability to move salaries forward.

The bigger corporates and companies run the show completely when setting wages and the average kiwi worker is suffering….and although I totally respect anyone who starts there own business some small businesses will always fail because revenue fails, it’s not always because of an expensive worforce

Regardless of why we had growth in the last seven years it did happen and our salaries were supposed to correct from the “pain we must suffer now” of the 1990’s. It’s not wrong to pin point problems in our market in order to look for solutions.
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May 14, 2007 8:32pm
Captain Crab

If the kiwi worker wants to be paid more then they need to do their part and increase their skill sets/production so they are worth more.
You shouldnt get pay rises just because….
The problem with Unions is that they reduce everyone to the common (lowest) denominator. There is no allowence for individuals to excel.So they dont. And then wonder why they are not getting ahead.
I dont think unions really want people to get ahead. Lose their own income if they did.
No the only way to share the “record” growth is through Tax Cuts. Same job, same gross pay but more money. Thats how you share the wealth, not by expecting an increase because the economy is doing well. Only those who are making it do well by producing more should receive/deserve an increase.
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May 15, 2007 1:09pm
SPC

Sounds like the right want government to ensure an increase in (after-tax) pay.

Why do companies pay Oz workers 30-50% more for the same skills and doing the same work? Why can a New Zealander simply go to Oz and get higher pay, without improving their skill set or work performance in any way whatsover?
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May 15, 2007 5:14pm
J

“Why can a New Zealander simply go to Oz and get higher pay, without improving their skill set or work performance in any way whatsover?”

That is a brillant observation SPC, it sums up the situation perfectly.

The likes of so called “business experts” like Fran O’Sullivan and co should write opinion piece after opinion piece on that above paragraph but she wont because she’s either a silverspooner whose never worked in her life or she just doesn’t give a shit about the workforce, they just don’t go to her dinner parties. Possibly both.
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May 15, 2007 9:42pm
simon

One commentator has a different view of the “Great Aussie Tax Cut” story

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/why-it-doesnt-pay-to-be-a battler/2007/05/15/1178995158837.html
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May 16, 2007 1:29pm

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