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September 3, 2006 8:22pm by David Farrar

A question

For how long has it been customary for Thai Immigrants to practise koha or lafo?

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Comment29

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Labour

Comments (29)

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David Baigent

If you’ve got an hour or two to spare this link makes delightful reading especially when you fit some of the Thai definitions and costs into the New Zealand situation.
http://www.fes.or.kr/Corruption/papers/Thailand.htm
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September 3, 2006 9:17pm
Greg

While you ask this question, you have also argued that migrants should accept the common values of New Zealand. Consistency, please.
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September 3, 2006 9:19pm
rightkiwi

never. field’s claim it was lofa is a load of crap. they were BRIBES not $20 courtesy money
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September 3, 2006 9:24pm
Paul Marsden

For as long as you have been a Minister Of the Crown.
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September 3, 2006 9:41pm
side show bob

Koha my arse, atleast they are not homesick, just like home.
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September 3, 2006 9:45pm
Paul Marsden

I believe there are a number of pieces of legislation, particluarly in regards to emergency services and rules of parliament, pertaining to the receieving and treatment of property that has been offered you, and where it must be disclosed.
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September 3, 2006 9:57pm
Lofa Tofu

It’s evolutionary customary law (which only happens when Labour is in government). Kinda like how a gun is protected under the Treaty as taonga.
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September 3, 2006 10:09pm
Paul Marsden

For example, there is no difference between say, a police officer recieving ‘koha’ of say $20 and keeping it for himelf (but whereby in law he is compelled to disclose it to his employers), and a politician exceptng a similar reward for a job well done…??? (but not dislosing it)
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September 3, 2006 10:22pm
Paul Marsden

Actually, there IS a difference! The politician is better paid!
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September 3, 2006 10:23pm
Jono

Well I have also posted my thoughts on this topic, and it seems a little like being of an ethnic minority makes it ok to change the name of something and therefore make it legal.

I am completely understanding of Koha in a Marae enviroment where you give Koha as a way of paying for the upkeep of the Marae and feeding the people who come.

But in this case it was a direct bribe for services and favours given this is a complete disgrace and should be treated as bribery which it finally seems the police are doing.
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September 3, 2006 10:25pm
Billy

Greg, you idiot, we do not live in Samoa.
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September 3, 2006 10:25pm
dave

Ah, thats why hes sometimes called Thaito Philip Field
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September 3, 2006 10:25pm
Jono

Way to go Billy… Thats so true, Greg get a clue 😛
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September 3, 2006 10:27pm
dave

Ah, thats why hes sometimes called Thaito Philip Field
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September 3, 2006 10:28pm
pdq

Can some of my salary be regarded as koha for IRD puposes? I have a very koha-minded employer. Or does it have to be Labour koha to count? Or Maori koha? Or pacific Islander koha? Gosh now I’m confused about corruptiuon and how it all works.
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September 3, 2006 10:41pm
Paul Marsden

PDQ. Wait for IRD’s booklet IRKoha14U, covering this matter. Itll be out soon. Hone is writing the intro.
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September 3, 2006 10:54pm
SPC

Many constituents of all backgrounds have donated money to MP’s after help (which is available to all without any obligation).

Some, say Pakeha, know that it is given to the MP’s party. Immigrant Asians (possibly not from a Commonwealth country), perhaps unsure as to the way it works here, offer money/favour to the MP more personally.

This leaves it to the MP to transfer it onto the party.
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September 3, 2006 11:24pm
Craig Ranapia

SPC:

Ah yes, poor ignorant Asians. I guess because they don’t speakee the Ingish too good like, they wouldn’t understand an MP saying, “Thank you, but it is not appropriate for me to receive cash or consideration from constituents for doing my job.”

Still, what goes around come around. I just hope the New Zealand Government – and Kiwi businesses – have a lot of guanxi to spread around China and won’t be expecting receipts.
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September 3, 2006 11:37pm
Julian

SPC-This isn’t neccessarily correct. MPs do not have to help anyone, except their constituents which they ARE obligated to help. And any money given to MPs is illegal. Constituents are not allowed to give MPs money for a job-they are paid by the taxpayer. However, if the constituent wants to donate money to the MP’s Party, then this is ususally done officially, ie through a process which requires recipets to be filled out and eventually the Head Office of that particular party is informed through the paperwork. 90% of all donations to a political party means an update to the electoral roll.

This is to supposed to show transparency in the system, and make it easier to see when dodgey going-ons occur. Such as in the Taito Phillip Fields case.

As far as I am aware (and I have worked for MPs) that neither MPs nor their electorate agents can accept money (a beer perhaps but not hard cash) from anyone they help while in the role of an MP.
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September 3, 2006 11:44pm
Julian

Oh and…MPs dont deal with party funds-that is what the MP’s electorate executive is for.

In fact, the rules are so strict that any money making ventures cannot be done through the office as officially MP’s are ‘apolitical’ in their role as MP in their Electorate. This may very well be different for List MPs.
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September 3, 2006 11:48pm
JamesP

Hopefully Mr Field will be as accepting of the British cultural practise of punishing public servants who accept bribes as he was to the Samoan custom of taking them. Isn’t this what being in a multicultural society is all about?
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September 3, 2006 11:51pm
Toby1845

I have a theory that the Police inestigation will reveal that the Thai never intended to come to NZ after all. What actually happened was that he was hired by a Samoan who need him to get access for himself (ie, the Samoan).

The whole thing was a misunderstanding. The Samoan in question went to the NZ Immigration Office in Apia wearing a lava lava, singlet and jandals, and was told: “You won’t get into New Zealand without a Thai.”

Or, at least, that’s what he thought he heard.

In the event he got the Thai to do some work on his cousin’s house while they were waiting for two seats on a flight to NZ.
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September 4, 2006 6:45am
Ian McGovern

I don’t know ! Sometimes the comments are better than the post. I enjoyed them so much I can’t think of anything to say. It is a good summary of what life should be like ! Fun.

What a wonderful way to start my day.
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September 4, 2006 9:35am
williamsjd06

For David Lewis to issue a very defensive statement to radio NZ following Harre & Hooton’s discussion this morning demonstrates that the PM’s office is losing control and is in a state of panic. Of course Minister King and Clark’s office discussed the issue with the Police. Everyone know’s the Police are in the pocket of the PM’s office. OIAs to the police anyone?
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September 4, 2006 2:20pm
SPC

Julian first reread my post. What about MY use of the word “constituent” did you not understand? Second it is NOT illegal to give money to MP’s, it is illegal for MP’s to provide service for money. The two can be and are distinguished by the MP only accepting any donations given to him/her on behalf of the party (and they can say this to the donor CR, even while they accept the money). Some people make donations because they like party policy and some to the party of the MP who has helped them. Neither is a “corruption” known overseas where those of government have to be paid off to get any service (up front tipping “euphemism”).

And yes Julian, the Field issue is about paperwork and auditing. Field says he did not keep any money, lacking any evidence otherwise, the matter is only one of due process in the office.
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September 4, 2006 4:26pm
SPC

National party supporters are now starting to suggest that, when prosecutions don’t follow unsubstantiated allegations this is because of they are no longer independent of the executive. This is suggestive of the psychological problems which lead to conspiracy theories.
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September 4, 2006 4:32pm
SPC

James P, what evidence is there that Feild has accepted bribes?
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September 4, 2006 4:38pm
SPC

In fact the only MP to say the koha they received did not pass onto the party, was a Maori Party MP. In that case, he said he passed it onto groups in the community.

I wonder if National MP’s will make an issue of this, or whether they will now support an MP code of conduct?

The “Field issue” is in part because he deals with more immigrants, more locals who operate in cash and those of his Samoan/Pacific community tradition.

One can of course note the importance of the south Auckland vote to Labour’s 2% majority and National’s focus of attack on all Labour fundraising sources (Pacific Island communities/unions/tax funding) and their reluctance to attack a Maori MP (because they want this group to grow at Labour’s expense).
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September 4, 2006 4:48pm
Brytney

pantera13
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May 15, 2007 1:46pm

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