General Debate 23 July 2017

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duggledog

Very good interview with the new US ambassador conducted by Kim Hill on RNZ yesterday. Worth a listen.

Hill pushed all the usual tragic hot button topics typical of an intellectual butt-hurt Clinton acolyte, but one of the best moments was when she brought up the apparently widespread, heartless American pastime of neglecting the poor.

Scott Brown simply pointed out the difference between those who get up every day and try to find work, or battle away at a poorly paid, insecure job, and those who simply sit on their arses all day with no desire to better themselves except figure out how to rob someone or rip them off.

Of course, to black & whiters like Kim Hill, there’s no difference. Every poor person deserves an endless supply of assistance, and their situation is never their fault

It was actually more satisfying than the time Pilger tore Kim Hill a new one, because Brown owned her with grace, chagrin and dignity.

I liked the sound of him.
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July 23, 2017 8:03am
- Sublime
  
  duggledog: I liked the sound of him.
  
  Yep. A lawyer, terms in state & U.S. senates, and more than 30 years’ service to his country with the Army National Guard. Remember the media coverage of him when he got the job out here? Pretty much all we ever heard about was a Trump-appointed former nude model.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:59am
  - GazzaW
    
    Scott Brown was all class and way too intelligent for that poseur Kim Hill. Brown just ran rings around her – expect some smartarse comments from Hill this week if we are to be inflicted with her on Morning Report yet again.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:47am
- Gabby
  
  I noticed the chagrin, tell you hwat.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:55am
- 3-coil
  
  Excellent interview – welcome to NZ Mr Ambassador. We all already know how rabid Mz Hill can be, and he must have been warned – he sounded great, which must take some skill when faced with such a bitter and twisted, acidic onslaught.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:21am
- lifesgood
  
  Yes, I listened to it and thought he came across extremely well. Hill sounded like a strident nut job. Does she know anything about diplomacy and what it entails? For crying out loud the guy can not and should not criticise his boss whatever he thinks. I thought he tolerated her onslaught heroically and she showed herself up as an idiot lefty. I have seen lefties proclaiming her the hero today. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
  
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  July 23, 2017 11:27am
- Huevon
  
  The guy sounds like a boss. Kim Hill is a left wing fraud and got her ass handed to her. Nice for NZ to have a touch of MAGA.
  
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  July 23, 2017 3:25pm
  - Gabby
    
    He sounds like a dick.
    
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    July 23, 2017 7:13pm
srylands

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94422883/fight-night-an-effort-to-stop-intergang-violence-but-critics-dont-buy-it

I don’t get how this will ‘stop violence’. It is an advertising campaign for violence.
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July 23, 2017 8:04am
- Southern Raider
  
  Would have been better to give them bottles of bourbon and pistols and leave them in a forest for 24 hours
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:09am
  - cmm
    
    Quite.
    
    Just make a DMZ across the Auckland/Northland border (10km fence from Topanui on the west to the east coast.
    
    All gang members north of that. All the weapons and booze we can provide.
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:31am
- Padriv Ustoev
  
  I agree. Thinking you can influence gang violence through a mass media campaign is dumb. But you know, you have to throw some tax payer dollars into the trough every now and again. Would love to know how much this cost and who got paid what.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:25am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I hope it was some of their marketing profits, the same profits that allow a waster on my ‘wages’ to have a $20,000.00 Harley
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:35am
    - Gabby
      
      You gotta Harley Puller?
      
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      July 23, 2017 9:18am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I have a Mercedes, and I know a Mercedes trumps your bus pass
        
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        July 23, 2017 9:33am
      - Gabby
        
        Is your Merc one of them $20,000 jobs Puller?
        
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        July 23, 2017 9:57am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        No Mercedes comes as cheap as $20k, but you knew that.
        
        May a suggest that you stop licking the paint on your cot and bus windows, it clearly is not helping your underlying condition(s)
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:23am
      - Rich Prick
        
        GLE63 coming soon. You can swivel the headlamp washers to hose off protesters. What a bloody great idea. Note to self: add soap, for extra trauma.
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:56pm
      - Rich Prick
        
        Hey Gabby, are you after a $20k Merc? My daughter just turned 16 and she has a new GLA45 Twin Turbo, so her old B200 Turbo, nice white leather which was her interior choice, is for sale, $20k will do. Interested?
        
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        July 23, 2017 11:32pm
    - GazzaW
      
      The staff would have told him to keep up his meds before they let him out for the weekend Paulus (or should I say Puller?). Alas, his one-liners are no substitute for the comparative wit of ztev or stephieboy.
      
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      July 23, 2017 10:58am
- brett68
  
  Gang life is brutal and violent.
  Having a controlled outlet for these guys is a good thing, better than them trying to waste each other on the streets or in the pub.
  
  Not a supporter of gangs by any stretch but they’re not going away and if this sort of tournament is a way these guys to get the fighting part of gang life done but in a controlled situation then it’s a positive.
  
  The only downside is that you may see the gangs getting over past conflicts and starting to work together thus we could end up with highly organised mega gangs which probably wouldn’t be that great.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:28am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Gangs exist because they provide services that people seek that are unavailable any other way.
    To eliminate the gangs, society either eliminates the desire for those services or provides those services in lieu of the gangs.
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:21am
    - stephen2d
      
      Hooray, hookers and crack cocaine for everyone!
      
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      July 23, 2017 9:34am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        There is talk of the legalization and state control of drugs. Prostitution has been decriminalized.
        I would favor actions to boost responsibility within the population rather than simply “giving candy to the children” so to speak.
        
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        July 23, 2017 9:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I found this article by Damien Grant on violence in prison very illuminating.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/87663398/Private-Business-Public-Failure-Two-sides-of-the-story-from-inside-our-prisons
    
    I’m not a violent person but I’ve discovered there is a euphoric release when tension is broken by the primal unleashing of fists. It can feel good to bash another person and in the moment you don’t feel being hit.
    
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    July 23, 2017 4:13pm
- Flash
  
  I reckon I’d be leaving town for the weekend –
  
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  July 23, 2017 11:20am
- Rachael Membery
  
  More likely that if all the gangs ‘get on’ then they will really be a force de majeure. Why fight amongst themselves, when they have so much in common.
  
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  July 23, 2017 12:35pm
Paulus

Has our Television service no shame.
I learn that they are promoting the Green Party liar, cheat and thief, this morning so it is to assume she can glorify being so.
I assume that her Parliamentary pension which she will start to collect soon, will cover all the money she “says” she will return if asked.
Like Winston’s $148,000 sent to Starship and returned as tainted.
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July 23, 2017 8:04am
- srylands
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/94967974/christchurch-grandmother-admits-250000-welfare-fraud
  
  Meanwhile back in the real world, grandmothers are off to prison for conveniently forgetting to tell WINZ they lived with the boyfriend.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:21am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    $246,872.00 at $20.00 a week; makes MT look like an amateur! ifs
    
    Tanga wheneua
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:41am
  - Viking2
    
    Yep and that surely awaits the Green Fruadster. But wait, who will tackle the issue from WINZ or police or IRD and will either of the partners/fathers, sperm donors get investigated and charged as well.
    
    Perhaps it will take a private effort to rid Parliament of these people. And paying it back doesn’t make it better especially if its at $20.00 a week like the next lady.
    
    I liked the Judges comment;
    On Thursday, prosecutor Jennifer North said the ministry was recovering part of the over payment from Hudson from the benefit she was now receiving.
    
    “So the taxpayer is continuing to provide her with benefit? Good gracious,” Judge Garland said. “Unbelievable”.
    
    North said the benefit fraud was not Hudson’s first offence.
    
    Isn’t time we changed the rules. Do this, get caught and no more Taxpayer paid benefits.
    
    “Scott Brown simply pointed out the difference between those who get up every day and try to find work, or battle away at a poorly paid, insecure job, and those who simply sit on their arses all day with no desire to better themselves except figure out how to rob someone or rip them off.”
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:42am
    - srylands
      
      “and will either of the partners/fathers, sperm donors get investigated and charged as well.[?]”
      
      I would be surprised if the father has committed any criminal offence. If the mother refuses to name him as the father, he has no liability for child support. Neither is he committing any offence by paying money to the mother while she is on the DPB. It is the responsibility of the benefit recipient to declare that support to WINZ.
      
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      July 23, 2017 9:06am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        He should be chargeable as well, he also just left it to the state. Worse if he was in the picture.
        
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        July 23, 2017 7:58pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Viking, it will have to be done privately, I will call by the police and get the forms on Tuesday. Have you noticed how soft National is on this issue? I would if there has been some polling or focus groups considering the support she is getting.
      
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      July 23, 2017 11:28am
      - Sublime
        
        Have you noticed how soft National is on this issue? I would if there has been some polling or focus groups considering the support she is getting.
        
        Metiria’s admission has seriously pissed off many a Joe and Jane Public. National can see this. It’s outsourcing the stone-throwing. Why cast so many itself when there’s a queue of people lining up to do it anyway?
        
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        July 23, 2017 12:45pm
    - cmm
      
      They take the $29 out of her benefit…
      
      but then they probably go top her up with a hardship grant too.
      
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      July 23, 2017 4:26pm
  - thedavincimode
    
    Not forgetting that no. 2 grandchild is on the way from the same mother who doesn’t look after no. 1 grandchild.
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:47am
  - chunks79
    
    #IamMetiria
    
    What a joke.
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:41am
    - Rich Prick
      
      You should read every sad-sack comment there. That’s what we are all paying for. Welfare cut short Dawin’s theory.
      
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      July 23, 2017 10:52pm
- Longknives
  
  I see this old fraudster rolled out the usual ‘I’ve had a hard life’…’Half my Whanau are in Prison’ etc etc excuses!
  
  I read it and wondered why she doesn’t argue Precedent- ‘If MPs can get away with WINZ fraud why can’t I??’
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:50am
- VicParking
  
  The failing newspaper has now produced the following “Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei’s daughter: ‘I would’ve gone hungry”
  Next they will be calling that she gets an additional benefit backdated..
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:24am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Doesn’t say much for the father or for the extended whanau that they would let their daughter and granddaughter go hungry.
    
    Thank-you NZ taxpayers for feeding this child.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:01am
  - waikatogirl
    
    Turei described on Q+A that at the time she was commiting fraud her daughter was a “tiny baby.”
    
    Amazing that a tiny baby can remember back that far.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:16am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Again, tanga wheneua, if you can believe in a taniwha, memories from being two or six (the excitement of mother getting her law degree) or even before conception, are not impossible.
      
      Just like ‘journalists’, make it up and shout racist if there is a challenge.
      
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      July 23, 2017 10:30am
  - tf78
    
    Looking at the photo of them in a happy family group you can see why she could go hungry – mum got up first in the morning and ate all the pies.
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:05am
- Rich Prick
  
  I’m just thinking back to the time Turei was ripping us all off. I was new in a job, entered an employee share option scheme whereby we saved up to buy shares over three years. After three years I took my savings and I exercised that option, I didn’t sell them, but was immediately liable for tax on the capital gain over the option period. I had to borrow to pay the tax liability. And that fucking bitch stole the tax I had to borrow to pay for. And now the bitch wants to tax me more so no one like her has to fucking steal again? Good luck with collecting for me now. Once is an accident, twice is a bit silly, three times, go get fucked.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:16pm
Southern Raider

Another day another Labour/Green lollly scramble

Labour has pledged to stop school donations by paying each school an additional $150 per pupil

Top tax is going to have to be a lot more than 40%

Is anyone keeping count of all this?
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July 23, 2017 8:07am
- srylands
  
  They are supposed to keep count themselves.
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/03/hooray_for_labourgreen_budget_responsibility_rules.html
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:16am
- peterwn
  
  Bill and Steve are and will drop their findings at the optimum time.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:18am
  - Gabby
    
    Bingles struggles to get straight how many years costs are spread over.
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:25am
- thedavincimode
  
  Yeah, well, hmmm, but. We keep seeing reports of parents being required to stump up for this that and the other, including tablets/computers. It strikes me that there is no clear delineation between what schools require by way of equipment etc in order for pupils to achieve the state-determined educational standards and what represents a wishlist by way of non-necessities. Anecdotally and based upon my perceptions of the sob stories we see in the media, there also appears to be a lack of consistency between respective schools in terms of what they consider necessary. The state ought to be stumping up for whatever kit is required to achieve the standards it sets but I wonder if that is actually happening. The situation is complicated by discretion on spending being delegated to school committees. I wonder how much kids are short-changed in the gap between the quality of school decision-making and government under-funding. Bottom line is that if we want a free education system, the state should provide kids with the tools required to achieve its standards. That doesn’t mean government for non-essentials (wishlist territory). But if we aren’t going to have free school education, at least be honest about that and cut the free education bullshit that we’ve had from various governments for yonks.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:38am
  - Viking2
    
    Too much money is now spent on sports. It is a consuming part of school budgets which I can see no reason for the taxpayer supporting.
    After all, they barely support other forms of occupation but sport is becoming where all the money is going.
    
    Whilst I acknowledge that recreations are going to take over from work for many people it isn’t the schools job to grow sport.
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:49am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      I disagree with you about too much money being spent on sports. My problem is that far too much is spent on the first XV, whereas the under 65kg rugby team will get little, as does the “D” team at football and the “C” team at hockey. I have seen boys who if they cannot make the first XV they do not play sport. We must do something to keep the lesser lights active and put a stop to this deification of first XV players.
      
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      July 23, 2017 9:08am
      - wiseowl
        
        sheesh.
        When I was in the First xv we had to pay for our own rugby uniform, boots etc.It wasn’t flash gear but we were proud of it and the team.
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:30am
    - Paulus
      
      And Kapa Haka competitions.
      
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      July 23, 2017 11:09am
  - tf78
    
    The EDUCATION itself is free – it’s the materials and school trips that aren’t. You know when you go out for a meal you get your steak/fish whatever as your main but you pay extra for salads and fries.
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:08am
    - Disaster Area
      
      If the materials and trips are an essential part of the course, they must be provided by the school. So things like chemicals in Science are provided by the school. If it is a ‘nice to have’, such as a field trip or guest speaker, then it will be funded by the parents.
      
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      July 23, 2017 4:55pm
- chris
  
  This won’t stop the need for school donations. Example: at our decile 10 school, they are about $400 per year. Government should fund all pupils equally, not graduated via the decile system.
  
  And even worse, we’re in a high growth area, and the ministry is too short sighted to build enough class rooms in advance. And then they only about half fund it…
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:17am
kowtow

More revelations of fake news.Will this make the front page of the NYT , doubt it.
Any wonder no one trusts them?

“People who criticized the government policy were treated by journalists as suspect and potentially racist. At the same time, the newspapers saw it as their role to educate such people on becoming better human beings, the study argues.”

https://www.thelocal.de/20170721/german-media-failed-to-report-refugee-crisis-honestly-study-claims
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July 23, 2017 8:17am
duggledog

srylands

If anyone thinks those fist fights in Whangarei won’t make things even worse then they are deluded.

The losers in the fights will want revenge, preferably in the dark of night from behind.
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July 23, 2017 8:18am
- Rachael Membery
  
  I don’t agree, the gangs will cooperate more, after all they have managed to coexist during the event and ‘mingle,’ a lot would know each other from prison anyway and many will be related.
  
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  July 23, 2017 12:48pm
kowtow

Some more diversity dividend for Sweden…….

“Swedish media outlets including Aftonbladet and Expressen have reported that all four victims had their throats cut, but police had not confirmed that as of Saturday. Aftonbladet also reported that the suspect is a Bosnian citizen. ”

https://www.thelocal.se/20170722/gothenburg-man-charged-with-killing-his-three-children-sweden
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July 23, 2017 8:21am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  He must have been mentally ill.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:24am
  - SGA
    
    Possibly, it happens –
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dena_Schlosser
    just recently
    http://people.com/crime/isabel-martinez-georgia-mom-surviving-daughter-speaks-alleged-stabbing/
    And there are similar cases
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:31am
    - cha
      
      And there are similar cases
      
      http://www.crime.co.nz/c-files.aspx?ID=10
      
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      July 23, 2017 12:27pm
  - waikatogirl
    
    If he was mentally ill he wouldn’t have denied responsibility. Large debts, being evicted.
    Possibly after wife’s life insurance.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:22am
    - SGA
      
      Possibly after wife’s life insurance.
      
      and indeed, that may well be the case, but
      
      If he was mentally ill he wouldn’t have denied responsibility
      
      doesn’t necessarily hold either. Isabel Martinez (my link above) is denying responsibility even though her surviving daughter is a witness, she moved all the bodies into the same room (so that they could “be together”), and she’s acting rather oddly in her court appearances.
      
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      July 23, 2017 1:05pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Interesting that Sweden is still ranked above NZ as top countries to live.
  
  How long is that going to last
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:29am
  - kowtow
    
    Not so much by the pick and choose criteria of the country / benefit seeking migrants themselves.You see the “progressive” Swedes pretended to be migrant huggers ,till they got too many and toughened up quick fast to stop the hordes.
    
    https://www.thelocal.se/20170721/uk-and-france-now-more-popular-than-sweden-for-asylum-applicants
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:54am
Happychappy

So Stuff thinks that it is time to roll out all the Lefts truck drivers to do a hit on Paula Bennett and take the heat off the Green Parties Fraudulent Leader. If this is not drawing a line in the sand telling people that fraud is alright if you are desperate and in need what is, and and also sending the message that we need a change of Government I would like to know why and what has Paula said about the Green Leader to draw this reaction. The media and the left go on about dirty politics but use it to counter a blatant theft, shame on you Stuff and we don’t need stories about a waitress that was working not on a benefit.
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July 23, 2017 8:22am
- Gabby
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I guess you weren’t a crappy lodger then chappy.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:31am
  - GazzaW
    
    …….and your point is Gobby?
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:45am
    - Gabby
      
      My point Guzzla may or may not be that Pullya might have a bit to say about the difference between flatmates and tenants, about which crappy knows NUSSing.
      
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      July 23, 2017 10:06am
      - Happychappy
        
        Why don’t you fuck off back to the hole you crawled out of you germ.
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:43am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Proof that a life-form can emerge from a discarded condom at a truck-stop on State Highway 27.
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:48pm
  - Gabby
    
    No more whisky in your Horlicks crappy pottymouth chappy.
    
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    July 23, 2017 6:48pm
- Keeping Stock
  
  The piece on Stuff today is nasty. It’s all innuendo, just like the “rumours” that have been circulating on social media over the past few weeks.
  
  All the while, Turei is getting a free ride from the left-leading media, and from what I’ve heard turned on the tears on the interview on Q&A this morning. She’s such a victim of nasty Pakeha men; not!
  
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  July 23, 2017 1:46pm
  - calendar girl
    
    What piece on Stuff today. Got a link?
    
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    July 23, 2017 3:08pm
    - Happychappy
      
      Stuff : Perks, Parties and Politics.
      
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      July 23, 2017 3:39pm
      - calendar girl
        
        Thanks, Happy.
        
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        July 23, 2017 8:15pm
    - dad4justice
      
      What a disgrace
      https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/94627131/one-lied-one-says-she-never-did-the-untold-backstories-of-political-leaders-paula-bennett-and-metiria-turei
      
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      July 23, 2017 3:57pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    And not an apology heard nor contrition to be seen. The creature has more front than Brighton. Will she continue to lie, steal and defraud?
    
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    July 23, 2017 7:16pm
Southern Raider

Where is the Labour donor and intern scandal got to?

All NZ so called journalists should be stripped of what creditations they have
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July 23, 2017 8:29am
- simpleton1
  
  It was bought up and I mentioned on last night’s GD.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/94906126/young-campaigners-from-us-and-uk-come-to-aid-of-labour-candidate
  
  The Labour ‘slaves’ posting etc. on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
  
  “Anything is better than National,” …….
  …..door-knocking and cold-calling people of Taranaki, are also teaching Haddock [labour candidate] the world of social media.
  
  “Oh he has no idea what we’re doing,” Greenhough said with a chuckle.
  
  Makes one wonder about all election bribes, around and not a peep about their intern funding.
  
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  July 23, 2017 8:41am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    I hope that he will take responsibility for any misinformation that is disseminated in his name.
    
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    July 23, 2017 12:53pm
- Gabby
  
  The Warehouse took the heat off Sodden Lamer.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:32am
Southern Raider

Liam Dann in the Herald is advocating that the incoming Govt needs to be prepared for a crash and balance between investing in growth generating activities and reserves

Doesn’t sound like you would want Labour or Greens getting us prepared for a crisis. Treasury would be empty and all the surpluses will end up being spent on Chinese imports, ciggies and alcohol
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July 23, 2017 8:46am
Hugh Pavletich

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
78 Sydney suburbs pass $2 million median house price mark | Newcastle Herald

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4613610/78-sydney-suburbs-pass-2-million-median-house-price-mark/?cs=4173

Sydney’s $2 million club was once reserved for Vaucluse, Mosman and a handful of other harbourfront enclaves. But after a period of rampant house price growth that club is less exclusive.

New data from Domain reveals a whopping 78 suburbs now boast a median house price of $2 million or more. Five years ago the list was limited to just six suburbs.

In the past three months alone 26 suburbs have joined the ranks, including Kingsford and Darlinghurst, which didn’t even have a $1 million median five years ago. Turramurra, Concord West and Haberfield also make the cut. …

… Sydney was ranked the second least affordable in the world, behind Hong Kong, in a survey released earlier this year.

The Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey, which ranked middle-income housing affordability by dividing the average house price by the average household income, deemed Sydney “severely unaffordable”.

“We’re creating a city of winners and losers,” said head of Urban and Regional Planning and Policy at the University of Sydney, Professor Peter Phibbs. “There are fewer and fewer options in Sydney for people on middle and lower incomes.” … read more via hyperlink above …

Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) … Lateline – 19/07/2017: The suburbs where homeowners could feel first impact of potential housing downturn

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2016/s4704698.htm

Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Broadcast: 19/07/2017

Reporter: John Stewart

In Sydney, house prices have doubled since 2008 – but some property analysts are warning that a correction is looming and housing on the fringe of the city could be the first affected. John Stewart reports. … view and read more via hyperlink above …

PHOENIX SANITY …

Pulte Homes … Phoenix … Arizona

https://pulte.com/homes/arizona/phoenix/florence/parkside-at-anthem-at-merrill-ranch-7739#CommunityDetailsView

… Check out the affordable or near affordable North American housing markets …

2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

… Google search ‘……. New Homes’ … for example ‘Atlanta New Homes’ … ‘Dallas Fort Worth New Homes’ … ‘Houston New Homes’ … ‘Phoenix New Homes’ … etc etc.

Note the North American convention is to only include heated areas when stating building areas … while in Australia and New Zealand the convention is to include garaging. Therefore add garaging (circa 6×6=36 square metres (10.764 square feet = one square metre) to the North American examples … to compare apples with apples.
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July 23, 2017 9:14am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Access yesterdays posts …
  
  http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_21_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1972920 (with extensive further posts up-thread) … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/links-22-23-july-2017/#comment-2921170
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:16am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Why would we bother Hugh? We could see them yesterday (if we could be arsed looking).
    FFS.
    
    29 3
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    July 23, 2017 9:32am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      … and todays …
      
      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_23_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1973564 … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/macro-afternoon-237/#comment-2921444
      
      … direct to yesterdays Kiwiblog one …
      
      http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_22_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1972959
      
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      July 23, 2017 9:55am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        These degrees of multiple stretch ae just lethal.
        
        They are way out of control.
        
        As the Central Bank of Ireland research found, it was excessive lending multiple stretch … in the main … that put all their Banks to the wall … requiring bailouts exceeding 70 billion euro (about $NZ 109 billion) …
        
        Here is what Reserve Bank of New Zealand Governor Graemw Wheeler said September 2015 … when the MM for Auckland was about 9 … it is now 10 with Sydney north of 12 …
        
        Auckland market in danger zone – RB Wheeler | Radio New Zealand News
        
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/283784/auckland-market-in-danger-zone-rb
        
        … extract …
        
        But Mr Wheeler this afternoon told MPs the faster house prices rose in Auckland, the greater the likelihood of a steep price reversal.
        
        He (Reserve Bank of New Zealand Governor Graeme Wheeler) said Auckland house prices were not sustainable.
        
        “The house price to income ratio for Auckland is at nine. It’s twice that for the rest of the country,” he said.
        
        “A ratio of nine puts you, according to Demographia figures, in the top 10 most expensive cities in the world.
        
        “This is just dangerous territory.” …
        
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        July 23, 2017 10:10am
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/another_money_grows_on_trees_policy.html/comment-page-1#comment-1973704
        
        Hugh Pavletich
        
        How ‘generous’ were the Irish politicians by the end of 2007 ?
        
        Our house price and lending multiple stretch is way worse than the Irish.
        
        Check out the 5 Important Graphs at my archival website http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .
        
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        July 23, 2017 11:50am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        Dear DPF – I accept that as this is a General Debate, Hugh can post what he wants. But when he starts posting links to what he said on the GD the previous day, it’s pretty obvious that he is just taking the piss, and abusing your hospitality.
        
        Just sayin’…
        
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        July 23, 2017 1:49pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Government setting up new housing infrastructure company, will invest $600m … Fairfax / Stuff NZ … h/t MW …
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95022183/government-setting-up-new-housing-infrastructure-company-will-invest-600m
        
        The Government is putting $600 million into a a new company to invest in infrastructure for housing developments.
        
        Its first job will be two Auckland projects intended to support 23,300 new homes in the north and south of the city.
        
        The body, called Crown Infrastructure Partners, is being formed by re-purposing and renaming Crown Fibre Holdings – the company set up to implement the Ultra-Fast broadband initiative. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        July 23, 2017 4:15pm
- srylands
  
  You often have worthwhile things to say. However your communication style here gives people the shits. No offence. The phone is off the hook.
  
  Yes there is much to learn from Phoenix land planning. Wellington is about the same size as Kansas City. There is no reason why it can’t have affordable houses and a modern road system. But that is not what we have chosen. We have chosen the RMA and its evil twin of out of control local government.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:26am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Too much, too early, too frequent; fuck off
  
  23 1
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  July 23, 2017 9:39am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Constantly plugging his own website is spamming. If it annoys you, then push Report. Iirc, if more than 10 push report the post will disappear.
    You could also email DPF. He’s probably unaware of how childish Hugh is being.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:35am
dad4justice

Surely this a propaganda scandal orchestrated through the nasty lefty fake news network or is it true?
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/cities-grow-worldwide-so-do-numbers-homeless
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July 23, 2017 9:30am
- Happychappy
  
  I thought this might cheer you up it is NZ film week and Clare Robinson wants all you people that are not happy with National to go watch a couple of films that she has a liking for, one is about Helen Clark one of your favourite Politicians and the other of a fat German Dot Com now what better person to encourage people to see these films before they confirm their voting preference than Trevors Clare.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:24am
  - Viking2
    
    Did you actually watch the show?
    Did you actually listen?
    
    The clear answer is no.
    You fool
    
    It was Prendergast who is involved with the Film commission who suggested we all go and watch the films.
    
    Accurate as usual eh!
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:36am
RF

Cry me a river. The bloody Toad is fronting on Q&A.

You would think at the time she was alone with no one including her family and the father’s family there to help her.

Absolute bull shit.
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July 23, 2017 9:31am
- Gabby
  
  If her fingers are moving you couldn’t get at her beforehand rf rf.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:36am
  - RF
    
    8 fingers & 2 thumbs. Plenty of scope….
    
    Then again if you come from the far north it’s 10 fingers and 3 thumbs.
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:43am
  - B.L.Zeebub
    
    Do you understand that we can`t hear the voices in your head that you are replying to?
    
    18 1
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    July 23, 2017 9:47am
- Happychappy
  
  Clare and John keeping and preaching the Labour/Green ethos and ethics fraud and theft only apply to the rich every business man has cheated the tax system so they are hypocrites condemning the co Green Leader.
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:51am
  - Viking2
    
    Actually if you had your eyes open and ears listening, this is a problem and goes back a long time. As a white male I guess you couldn’t be blamed for not understanding the dilemma that people are left in.
    
    Don’t you think it would be better for NZ if we actually got to grips with the issues and fixed them instead of beating people up like that Nats. did in the late 80’s and 90’s?
    
    We are better now but looking at the issue and adding that of suicides we are not creating a good society.
    See my post further down.
    Nothing is ever what it seems.
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:32am
    - Happychappy
      
      I try to avoid your posts big noter and as I am a lot older than you I have seen and been involved in this with My father in the sixties so before you trout mouth get your facts right.
      
      10 1
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      July 23, 2017 12:15pm
    - Happychappy
      
      I also saw lots of people ripping the Welfare benefit off in the early 1980’s and on pay days used to pump the slot machines. So your theory of National beating them up is crap welfare fraud was rife then probably more than today. Some may have suffered but it was the likes of The Green Leader that caused it so don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
      
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      July 23, 2017 12:32pm
      - MCos
        
        Pokies didn’t exist in NZ in the early eighties.
        
        1 8
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        July 23, 2017 1:15pm
      - Happychappy
        
        MCos : 1985 close enough for you.
        
        9 0
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        July 23, 2017 1:25pm
      - MCos
        
        https://onlinecasinoguide.co.nz/history-of-pokies-in-new-zealand/
        
        0 1
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        July 23, 2017 1:42pm
      - Happychappy
        
        Pub Charities started in 1991 but before that their were a lot of card games and other games that you could still win big on the only difference was you got paid out at the bar.
        
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        July 23, 2017 2:04pm
      - Source
        
        As for pokies in NZ, you`re truly correct. That happened in 1985. It`s not necessary to discuss this information. Pokies/slots still a part of everyday life of NZ people. Gambling is growing nowadays, and you can`t do nothing with it.
        
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        May 21, 2021 3:04am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Burst into tears – what an act. Blames the system for failing her, and wants to get into Govt to fix it. Will not accept responsibility – starts talking about solo mothers suiciding. Fuck off.
  More sunlight needed on Warrick Stanton, Ann Hartley, other flatmates.
  Q & A has become the Green propaganda machine
  
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  July 23, 2017 9:53am
  - Happychappy
    
    Steve: She saw how the plau avting helped Jacinda when talking about her freind at school several years ago that commited suicide. No one likes stories like that but plenty of MPs like to Promote things to gather sympathy. What better way to con the voter.
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:07am
EAD_TWO

Oyy Veyy – The rewriting of history continues:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/were-the-jack-the-ripper-murders-an-elaborate-anti-semitic-frameup/

Now Jews are trying to claim that the Jack the Ripper murders were an “Anti-semitic” frameup.

What makes me smile is that they carry on and make out that so called “anti-semitism” is some kind of irrational disease rather than a reaction to Jewish behaviour.
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July 23, 2017 9:35am
- B.L.Zeebub
  
  Like all anti-Jewish fuckwads, I doubt you`d recognise a Jew even if one slapped you upside your head with a piece of Gefilte fish.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:00am
  - thedavincimode
    
    I doubt you`d recognise a Jew
    
    I’m pretty sure EAD knows exactly how to recognise those pesky Jews.
    
    9 3
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    July 23, 2017 10:48am
  - EAD_TWO
    
    @ Zeebub,
    
    why would I be anti the Jewish race? I’ve managed several Jewish staff on my time and count 2 Jews as close friends. (shit – even Hitler, the worst man to walk the face of the earth ever for all eternity had a Jewish Doctor!)
    
    I’m actually just:
    * anti Talmud
    * anti Hypocrisy
    * anti Double Standards
    * anti Usury (Matthew 21: 12-17)
    
    2 17
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    July 23, 2017 10:53am
    - thedavincimode
      
      Yes, the cunning ‘why, some of my best friends are Jews’ ploy. A time-honoured classic.
      
      23 4
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      July 23, 2017 10:59am
      - Keeping Stock
        
        You saved me from saying that very thing davinci. I presume EAD_TWO is the same personage as the anti-semitic EAD, and some of the rantings here are frankly offensive. I am surprised DPF tolerates them.
        
        16 3
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        July 23, 2017 1:52pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        DPF keeps to his principles .
        Freedom of speech.
        
        EAD knows the implications of his rhetoric.
        If challenged on what to do about the Jewish problem he prevaricates.
        
        15 5
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        July 23, 2017 2:05pm
      - EAD_TWO
        
        You use the term “rantings” Keeping Stock.
        
        If you actually read what I write, rather than recoil like a Pavlovian dog, I just focus on the analysing what is in the MSM, particularly the Jewish MSM as per above.
        
        Actually read what I write. What is so offensive about the above? Yes I am bringing to readers attention news they otherwise wouldn’t hear but isn’t that a good thing?
        
        My last 5 posts on items related to Jews have been:
        – Jack the Ripper above from the Times of Israel
        – A link from Russia Today analysing the little covered USS Liberty sinking
        – A link from the Gurdian analysing Netenyahu’s threats to destroy Europe
        – A link from Haaretz exploring the marriage laws of Israel that are enshrined to avoid miscegenation and maintain racial purity.
        – A video from an Israel Current Affairs show that has Barbra Lerner Spectre stating that Europe is going into multicultural mode and Jews will be resented for their leading role.
        
        All posted in a non-threatening, non-abusive style. Compare and contrast my behaviour with the extremism I receive in return!
        
        Just look at the aggression and lies from Gruff above – I am very clear on how I want to solve what Gruffyd calls the “Jewish Problem” – I want exactly for white countries what Jews have for Israel.
        
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        July 23, 2017 6:48pm
    - EAD_TWO
      
      FWIW,
      
      I do support these Jews who have rejected the evils of the Talmud (psssst- it’s way worse than the Koran) and remain true to the holy document of the Torah:
      
      http://www.truetorahjews.org/
      
      2 15
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      July 23, 2017 11:04am
- Kimbo
  
  So, if two outlandish and extreme conspiracies based on the post hoc fallacy:
  
  A conspiracy to scapegoat Jews at every opportunity because that’s what happens
  
  vs
  
  an international Jewish conspiracy to corrupt Gentiles because Gentiles have allegedly been corrupted so someone must have done it-
  
  ….collide, do they cancel one another out? 🙂
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:45am
holysheet

If ever you wanted another reason NOT to vote for the toxic greens, this is it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40661252

Cows have shown an “insane” and “mind-blowing” ability to tackle HIV which will help develop a vaccine, say US researchers.
In a first for immunisation, the animals rapidly produced special types of antibody that can neutralise HIV. It is thought cows evolved a supreme immune defence due to their complex and bacteria-packed digestive system.
The results, published in the journal Nature, showed the cow’s antibodies could neutralise 20% of HIV strains within 42 days. By 381 days, they could neutralise 96% of strains tested in the lab.
Dr Dennis Burton, a fellow researcher, said: “The potent responses in this study are remarkable.
“Unlike human antibodies, cattle antibodies are more likely to bear unique features and gain an edge over HIV.”
Unusually for human antibodies, the broadly neutralising ones have a long and loopy structure. Cow antibodies are inherently more long and loopy.
So the cow immune system finds making the antibodies easily.
It is thought the cow’s “ruminant” digestive system which ferments grass in order to digest it is a Wild West of hostile bacteria. So the animals have developed the antibodies needed to keep them in check.
Here we have been shown that cows have a use far beyond just milk. And the greens want to reduce their numbers.
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July 23, 2017 10:02am
VicParking

Maori home ownership is at an all time low. Maori in prisons, in hospital and on welfare is at an all time high. I thought that the treaty settlements were supposed to fix this. As I see the maori leaders drive past in their BMW’s I am starting to think not.
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July 23, 2017 10:16am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “I thought that the treaty settlements were supposed to fix this. ”
  
  Obviously the money is not enough (settlements + welfare). Give them more.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:27am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    They could just steal money – seems to be the ‘in’ thing to do
    
    18 1
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    July 23, 2017 10:36am
  - marcw
    
    Iwi money minders are astute enough to know that building homes on Maori land for the bludgers would be a poor investment. We only have to see what happens to taxpayer funded housing (meth contamination, damage, rubbish, rent arrears, lack of respect) to know they are right – so let HNZ continue to be the suckers for us who pay and pay and pay … Iwi can sit back and leave the problem to the other suckers.
    
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    July 23, 2017 12:40pm
Nigel Kearney

Not everyone is good at parallel parking:

http://imgur.com/gallery/T1C9g
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July 23, 2017 10:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is it just me… or is KB General Debate flowing along fairly well without the numerous diversions from stephieboy and mm?
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July 23, 2017 10:37am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Now to work on Gabby and Hugh.
  Edit, what happened to Mike? he is a troll, but does say some clever things
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:40am
  - Lance
    
    EAD2’s daily toxic anti-semitic rants are going down like a shit sandwich
    
    24 3
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    July 23, 2017 10:55am
    - EAD_TWO
      
      @ Lance,
      
      read my comment above
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_23_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1973894
      
      How is bringing to readers attention news and information they wouldn’t otherwise hear a so called “toxic rant”.
      
      Compare what I post to some of the real rants we see about
      – Maori
      – Islam
      – people who believe in God
      – White people
      
      Then come back and discuss who the real “toxic” commentators on here are.?
      
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      July 23, 2017 6:58pm
- Kimbo
  
  I miss mikenmild. Was a necessary counter-balance and mental hygiene to the far-right wingers. stephie? Nope…
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:42am
  - Steve (North Shore)
    
    Gave Mike quite a few upticks for his knowledge and wit. Credit where credit is due
    
    17 3
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    July 23, 2017 10:47am
    - Kimbo
      
      Yes, especially his knowledge of NZ history. See, we can all benefit from a BA majoring in history from Vic Uni (or maybe it was Waikato? 😉 )
      
      12 3
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      July 23, 2017 11:08am
  - Gruffydd
    
    MM is lurking in the either .
    Type his name three times while twirling in a circle whilst muttering the appropriate incantation and he will materialize.
    No I will not give you the incantation.
    If you do summon him you are responsible.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:55am
    - mikenmild
      
      It just takes a special sort of stupid comment. holysheet’s idea that we need more dairy cows shitting in our rivers because cows can also be useful for medical research very nearly qualifies.
      
      14 17
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      July 23, 2017 11:10am
      - Steve (North Shore)
        
        Have you and Griff got SPCA?
        
        6 1
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        July 23, 2017 11:26am
      - Viking2
        
        Yep, MM holyshit is just bothered someone will recognize him for the bullshit he is.
        Now about those cows. Can you tell me exactly how many cows are actually shitting in the river today?
        Can you also tell me how much road film and rubbish is flowing into those rivers as well? Around towns that’s the bigger issue and is not even on the radar.
        Went to a talk several years ago by a fellow named Steve. He was at the time the NZ expert on squid and giant squid.
        He told us that (from memory), there are 80+ squid types in the world. From memory 60 lived around NZ and a lot of them were in Auckland streams and waterways.
        So the rubbish and the roads and the draining of the Auckland area was depleting the known species.
        
        And for some reason all we are bothered about is a few cows.
        Still after the weekends rain in Canterbury the rivers will have had a clean out and be full of water again for a while.
        The greenies will need more than their sandles to walk on the beaches up the rivers. Nature taking it’s course of course.
        
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        July 23, 2017 11:47am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Viking2
        
        Your memory does not serve you well..
        
        The steve expert you refer to is Steve O’Shea….
        He was an expert on NZ squid species.
        Squid, cuttlefish and octopus are cephalopods.
        Cephalopods are only found in seas….. they aren’t fresh-water beasties.
        
        I believe Steve O’Shea left NZ in 2013 after being in an inappropriate relationship with one of his Ph. D students.
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/8252674/Sex-and-the-Squid-Man
        
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        July 23, 2017 12:49pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        I think V2 may be confused with migratory galaxiids.
        
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        July 23, 2017 12:55pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Plus all we need is cross contamination of our stock by some rogue virus or scientist.
        Do we really need to pass on human diseases to other mammals?
        
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        July 23, 2017 1:01pm
      - Viking2
        
        Maggie, it was some years ago but am sure my memory is fine. He may have given us the wrong info but certain that’s what he told us.
        Found him fascinating as at the time squid had a completely unknown life cycle. touched on whales and why they were beaching hungry on the way back up from down south. Looked at all the trawl charts from the Chatham rise and learnt about how squids actually make baby squids.
        
        Somewhere I recall he left under a cloud but that was University politics wasn’t it. Plenty do what he did and don’t get shafted. Indeed the film last night on TV1 was all about that. Funny watching the self righteous. Read through that link. Passionate he was, could have talked to him for hours. Need more people as passionate as him.
        
        Need a lot less self righteous god botheres and ethics clap trap. That doesn’t take the world of science forward.
        
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        July 23, 2017 2:01pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Viking2
        
        I’m sure steve O’shea didn’t give you wrong information… but he probably enthused over a number of topics at the same time.
        
        I never met him in person, but have twice had to deal with manuscripts he was commissioned to write.
        
        They were incredibly disorganised and incomplete…..
        
        I ended up completely rewriting (and collecting more information) for one manuscript and I turned down a job to ghost write/edit a book he was meant to write on giant squid.
        
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        July 23, 2017 4:33pm
- holysheet
  
  Did your mother never tell you not to poke the bear, let sleeping dogs lie, or tempt fate? Nobody misses the stoooooooopid prick more than me. But for the good of KB I will suck it up and remain quiet.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:49am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “Is it just me… or is KB General Debate flowing along fairly well without the numerous diversions from stephieboy and mm?”
  
  Not to mention ztev, marquess, morrissey and yoza.
  
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  July 23, 2017 11:30am
  - Viking2
    
    Talking of trev, remember the extra untaxed coin that came from selling rugby tickets?
    
    Is that not the same as those that take cash under the table, e.g. the builder who takes cash?
    Isn’t it not the same as benefit fraud.
    After all it affects the disposable income of the recipient, i.e. the Govt.
    
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    July 23, 2017 11:51am
    - GazzaW
      
      It’s just mean-spirited and greedy in my book Viking. To accept freeby tickets and then sell them on Trade Me to the highest bidder and pocket the cash tells you a lot about a bloke’s character or lack of it. If he didn’t want them then how about passing them on to a hardworking staffer or a hard-up constituent. Every time I see the dodgy prick on TV I’m reminded of that episode. Never mind, karma strikes on 23 September. What goes round……….
      
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      July 23, 2017 1:23pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        will not fit in a triangular hole?
        
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        July 23, 2017 1:50pm
  - KevOB
    
    Are they at a seminar for interns?
    
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    July 23, 2017 3:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I didn’t need to be the spinster of the parish back when I was in my teens and all my mates were married at 16….

I could have married myself.
Why didn’t I know about sologamy?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/94886537/married-at-17-divorced-at-20-ej-love-still-thinks-teens-should-be-able-to-w
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July 23, 2017 11:08am
- wiseowl
  
  Leighton talked about it one day.
  What about the woman who married a bridge.She’s divorced now. Couldn’t get over it.
  
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  July 23, 2017 12:53pm
Viking2

Interesting watching both Mike King and Meteria this morning on Q+A.

There seems to me to be a considerable alignment between the issues both raise.
Listening to MT and the why of what she did (as did many many others), including possibly many Nat. MP’s (well BE rort on his houses was a good example of ripping the taxpayer), and the policies that caused people to do this I have some sympathy for her arguments (not necessarily her actions. The two are different.)

MT pointed out that she had a baby, no education and without doing something not a great future. Now many have been there and in an effort to change their circumstances she did what most people would do i.e. what ever it took to achieve her goals of education and looking after her family. People do this all the time, it’s inherent in our DNA generally.

She rightly pointed out that she began this in1981 just before NZ changed forever (mostly for the better and had the Pope not intervenned in Lange’s life Douglas would have got this bit sorted.)
It was further compounded by the advent of Ruth (all Mouth and Trousers) and Jenny the self righteous one.
They cut benefits of the unemployed and the low income beneficiaries by 25% at a time when business was contracting, work was getting harder and harder to come by for the average person. Many many businesses collapsed or just closed shop. That’s what the Nats. did for NZ. ( Destroyed lives and those two are held up as something special. Bah.)
( Interesting that when Shipley became PM she immediately began the argument to move Winston out and subsequently she went out of power. Should tell us something.) It took another Labour Govt. to begin the process to right these actions and these have been reinforced and grown by Key despite his campaign rhetoric before his being elected PM.

The point that King made is that we have moved from a society where an income supported a family and families had time ,to where we now send kids to pre schools from months old and continue that treatment of them for the rest of their growing up. We no longer spend time with our kids, as parents we all seem to be working 90-100 hours per week and the kids don’t get time. The pressure on people is very high. Notice that myself. The chances of you having spare cash and be able to retire are less and less for a whole number of reasons. Business is much more competitive and of course changing much faster than ever. It will continue.
Kings point was that we now have a society where work and money is God and we are driven by that rather than a quality of life that allows people to survive easily, where the pressure is so high that adults and children see no future for themselves and so end their lives. The farmer stats. are not good.
King raises the issue of mental health support which in turn raises the issue of draconian and unnecessary Law.e.g. the laws around drugs and especially Cannabis. We are seeing the results of that stupidness with the current 7 deaths from someones concoction. We need to decriminalize lots of things. We need to stop beating people up when the go off track or do something silly. We have too many laws about everything designed of course to keep policemen and lawyers on the gravy.

MT raises the issue of criminalizing beneficiaries who are endeavoring to survive.
Yes there should be much more monitoring but there also needs to be as there mostly is now a better way of helping people with goals set and worked towards. with help to do that.
IT doesn’t excuse those like the lady from CHCH going to jail for what appears to be straight out fraud over a long period. ( Mind you sending her to jail just means we pay so that makes me feel a bit pissed off as a taxpayer. There has to be a better way of changing that and imposing some penalty that doesn’t continue forever to be paid by the taxpayer.).

The issue of student loans is wrapped up in this. MT of course didn’t have that option whereas today people do but that leads to the issue of loan repayments and look at that for a problem.There are people out there who are just never going to get on top of that.(I have one in my family. Did what she was told and thought was right but now owes not a large sum but is struggling to reduce that loan.)
Many of us know these people and standing on a hill thumping your chest and telling them to repay the money doesn’t fix the problem. It creates depression or resignation that they are never going to be shot of the loan until they die. Is that what we really want? Is that what the Govt. wants?

There is a better way and I believe one that will be more successful.

When one is in business a business can claim expenses that are incurred in earning that income.
One of those expenses is staff training, ( now more than ever with the H & S etc.)
so when a business send someone of to training they can recoup those expenses because their will be a benefit to the company from the training. i.e. expense in earning an income.

Now we could change the Student Loan Scheme to treat people as we would a business.
I.E. The expenses incurred in going to Uni or training should be an expense against the persons income once their training is complete. So a tax deduction based on those expenses and the time taken could be claimed against their incomes for a similar period of time.
The expenses that can be claimed should be established, course fees and so on and not include living etc. (all open for a vigorous debate of course).
This should not be available once a person goes off shore and no longer has a NZ based income.
When a person goes to private training ( UNI etc.) they have either have cash or a loan and then they repay from their earnings. ( Caution here as we would need to qualify what qualifies and it must be something that is going to earn income for taxation purposes.)

It will have some impact on taxes collected but in the longer term it will raise peoples spirits, raise their learning opportunities, relieve them of debt and encourage them to earn to advantage.
More importantly it treats personal and work expense on an equal basis. e.g. if a carpenter or baker apprentice goes off to training school they are both earning and the employer is paying for that training. If an employee from some law or accounting co is sent to America to Harvard that expense is deductible to the co.

Why would we not do this?
What’s not to like about the idea?
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July 23, 2017 11:24am
- marcw
  
  One of those expenses is staff training,
  so when a business send someone of to training they can recoup those expenses
  
  Are you sure? Please explain which column in IRD land you would fill in to claim this expense. It is a cost yes, but it just comes off the bottom line when it comes to the final profit/loss so you may avoid paying tax on your loss.
  
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  July 23, 2017 12:52pm
  - Viking2
    
    Of course it comes out in the expenses column. That makes it a tax deductible item along with any other expenses, provided it is a genuine business expense. Been like that forever.
    
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    July 23, 2017 1:38pm
- Happychappy
  
  It was proved that Bill English was given the wrong advice from a Government department so he then paid back $34,000.00 so again your beat up in defending the indefensible is wrong the Green Leader has committed fraud and nothing you can say changes that.
  
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  July 23, 2017 1:16pm
  - Viking2
    
    Oh so i didn’t know I just did as I was told. The Nuremberg trials after WW2 decided that was no defense and ignorance of the Law is also acknowledged in NZ as no defense. Try harder.
    
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    July 23, 2017 1:40pm
  - MCos
    
    As I understand the situation English was living in what was effectively a flash house he owned in the capital.
    Will a bit of jiggery pokery he thought he could make a healthy profit from the taxpayer to augment his already livable salary.
    Whether or not he thought he was in the clear he still came within the defininition of ‘trougher’ as often used on this forum to describe people considered to be sponging off the hard working minority who prop up the country’s coffers.
    
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    July 23, 2017 3:23pm
  - Gabby
    
    Did he pay it all back chappy? Or did he pay a crappy fraction of it?
    
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    July 23, 2017 6:37pm
- KevOB
  
  “The issue of student loans is wrapped up in this. MT of course didn’t have that option whereas today people do..”
  
  MT did not have a student loan.
  MT has stated she had a Transitional Study allowance or something of a similar name. That was freely available from WINZ for income supported beneficiaries. It paid all the fees and course costs. without expectation of repayment. I know these as I had one myself on an invalids benefit aged 60.
  
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  July 23, 2017 3:09pm
Viking2

New twist to the David Bain Saga.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/95007194
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July 23, 2017 12:06pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Where will the podcast be available?
  
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  July 23, 2017 2:19pm
Gruffydd

Science advances one death at a time .
Mr Pal review Chris de Freitas’s contribution will not be missed .
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July 23, 2017 12:42pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  It’s always religious fundamentalists like yourself that harbour the most hatred in their hearts.
  
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  July 23, 2017 2:42pm
- Gruffydd
  
  Did you learn exponential ?
  After you have that concept maybe we can teach you how to link to a source for your statements rather than WWWfactsoutmyarse.com …
  
  I did not “hate” Criss .
  I just thought he was a dishonest fuckwit.
  
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  July 23, 2017 2:58pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  http://www.env.auckland.ac.nz/en/about/news-and-events/news/news-2017/07/in-memoriam–chris-de-freitas.html
  
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  July 23, 2017 3:26pm
wiseowl

Yous lot should all be watching the ‘Outsiders’ on Skynews.
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July 23, 2017 12:44pm
Sublime

On Turei …

Is what we’re seeing now a clear-cut case of the age-old political chestnut: ‘It’s not the action that catches you out, it’s the way you handle it’?

Deep down, everyone knows they’d do whatever it took in desperate circumstances to feed their kids. The furore over Turei’s admission is not about her having done that. It’s about why, 20-something years later it has come out at an oh-so-convenient time accompanied with far more questions than answers.
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July 23, 2017 12:51pm
- Viking2
  
  Attacking her is just ignoring the issue.
  Not a big fan at all but like the issue of the fraudster who was whistle blown there are issues that need addressing or people will do what they need to do or be trodden down.
  If you watched the interview she gave the reason why now.
  
  The issue needs sorting from the basics but like so much its is just bad policy heaped on bad policy. Why can’t we do better?
  
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  July 23, 2017 1:44pm
Monique Watson

A man walks into a bar with an ostrich and a cat. He orders 3 drinks and sits down. The man and the ostrich drink in silence whilst the cat complains about the price of the drinks.
He orders a second round and it’s the same except now the cat is berating him for being a fool with money.
The third round is ordered.
The bar man says “I have to ask, you look miserable, what is it with you and the ostrich and moaning cat?”
“Well” says the man “last week I found a lamp and I rubbed it and out popped a genie and he gave me one wish”
“you asked for pets?” Asked the bar man
“No” says the man sadly “I asked for a silent bird with long legs and a tight pussy”.
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July 23, 2017 1:14pm
- holysheet
  
  And that’s where he made his mistake. No bird of any type has ever been known to remain silent for long. They just cannot help themselves.
  
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  July 23, 2017 4:23pm
Peter

Turei’s Daughter: “I would have gone hungry”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11893562

Meanwhile, there is a picture of the grandmother in that article. So, was WINZ the only option, else “go hungry”? Were there other options for support? Hmmm?
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July 23, 2017 1:40pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Where was the father again? Where is he now?
  
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  July 23, 2017 2:45pm
  - sooty
    
    I see that the feral in the ute video was not the daughter.
    
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    July 23, 2017 3:49pm
Peter

Trotter thinks Labours TV advertisement is pants:

https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2017/07/nothing-fresh-about-labours-approach.html

He’s right. It’s truly awful.
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July 23, 2017 1:42pm
- niggly
  
  It’s so awful The Spinoff parodied it:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FIZ_-fAr7M
  
  (The Spinoff also have parodied the National one and will do the Greens next, but at least the real National and Greens ads are “optimistic and aspirational”, whereas the Labour one just drones on with Little and his commentary – even Trotter realises … oh dear)!
  
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  July 23, 2017 3:12pm
  - sooty
    
    Labour under 20%. Angry 3%.
    
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    July 23, 2017 3:51pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Aussie ad agency, didn’t ours want the job?
  
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  July 23, 2017 4:34pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  When Trotter bags it, it’s bad news for Labour….
  
  Ah well, not long till the 24th when the missing million will get up to vote.
  
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  July 23, 2017 7:27pm
Southern Raider

Does Winston First not have any money?

Driving around Auckland today I haven’t seen a single one of their signs. Even Maori Party has signs everywhere
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July 23, 2017 2:13pm
- Viking2
  
  https://blog.homes.co.nz/social-media-101-an-introduction-for-agents/
  
  Now not about politicians BUT think about how Trump won.
  
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  July 23, 2017 4:00pm
Ross12

I maybe behind the times but facial recognition is well and truly here. While I’m aware of it’s use at airports etc. I wasn’t aware Facebook uses it. My wife put a photo of her and myself up on her page recently. She did not “label” it in any way but FB put the names up automatically.
Not sure how this affects privacy issues –in our case probably not but if it was a photo of someone else and you got “caught” in the background and FB picked it up that might be another matter.
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July 23, 2017 2:25pm
- Peter
  
  You can turn it off:
  
  https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=10200238140979448
  
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  July 23, 2017 2:39pm
- Viking2
  
  Usually requires someone to confirm the face.
  
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  July 23, 2017 4:01pm
  - Ross12
    
    Thanks Peter.
    No Viking2 –our names came up immediately after the photo was put up.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:52pm
Viking2

Following New Zealand First’s announcement of the binding referendum on the Maori seats, TVNZ news said Labour leader Andrew Little “will not agree with the proposals if the parties are to go into coalition after the September general election”. This comes as no surprise given Labour holds all but one of the Maori seats.

Since Winston Peters claims the referendum is a “bottom line” policy for New Zealand First, if they are to be believed, we cannot expect them to form a coalition government with Labour.

In response to Winston Peters’ referendum announcement, National’s Stephen Joyce said abolishing the Maori seats was something their Party had been considering and that they expected to clarify their policy in a month or so.

National, of course, used to be opposed to Maori privilege, pro-actively campaigning on a policy of abolishing the Maori seats. In fact the last time Bill English was National’s Leader, one standard of citizenship was a major election theme.

However, under the leadership of John Key, the policy was deferred until after the Treaty settlement process was finalised: “At the conclusion of the settlement of historic Treaty claims, National will begin a constitutional process to abolish the Maori seats. National wishes to see all New Zealanders on the same electoral roll.”

In other words, John Key sidelined abolishing the Maori seats in favour of policies that supported Maori privilege and generously appeased iwi leaders.

Perhaps National is finally getting the message that such policies are not only harming national unity, but are costing the Party dearly, as potential National voters migrate to New Zealand First to support a party and a leader who is opposed to race-based privilege.

This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator, free-lance journalist Michael Coote, explains:

“New Zealand First has consistently opposed Maori racial privileging in law and public policy. It offered to support the National government on Resource Management Act (RMA) reform if references to the Treaty of Waitangi were stripped out. National chose to reject this opportunity and instead fell captive to the Maori Party in making the RMA even more racist… Perhaps it is time the septuagenarian Mr Peters practised the activism in government he threatens from opposition and led New Zealand First into meaningful and lasting political achievements.”

National now stands at a crossroads. Will they support the New Zealand First position, with a policy they used to promote by agreeing to a binding public referendum of all New Zealanders on whether the Maori seats should be retained or abolished, or will they support the Maori Party and commit to retaining the Maori seats – or promise a binding referendum of only voters on the Maori roll.

The Maori Party and Hone Harawira’s Mana Party are threatening protest action to bully and intimidate politicians and voters to dissuade them from supporting the abolition of the Maori seats. One can only hope that New Zealand voters will understand how important it is that the power base of Maori supremacists is removed once and for all – by standing firm and supporting the abolition of the Maori seats.

http://www.nzcpr.com/major-election-policies-announced/
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July 23, 2017 2:42pm
Monique Watson

Ferals are on the left of you. Fucktards are on the right, Count your numbers. And size your pauas.
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July 23, 2017 4:02pm
Peter

Signal of a market top? 🙂

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/94966044/shamubeel-eaqub-ive-bought-a-house-at-last
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July 23, 2017 4:03pm
Viking2

Steven Joyce came very close last week to saying he wanted a big fall in Auckland house values. So would he take action after the election if government moves to boost housing supply come up short?

If you blinked, you may have missed it. But Finance Minister Steven Joyce last week came very close to saying the National government wants all Auckland property values to become much lower than they currently are.

Not in those words exactly, but that’s how I’m reading through this line put out on Thursday: “We must keep a strong focus on land supply so that section prices become much more reasonable.”

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/88913/steven-joyce-came-very-close-last-week-saying-he-wanted-big-fall-auckland-house-values

So the Nats. think they should crash the house market for all you Aucks. That’ll be fun then won’t it.
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July 23, 2017 4:21pm
- KevOB
  
  It should crash without any help from inside NZ.
  The international Reserve Banks have begun tightening up on their profligate credit creation.
  
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  July 23, 2017 4:56pm
Viking2

So the other day I went to the supermarket, and I was there for literally 5 minutes. When I came out there was a motorcycle cop writing a parking ticket. So I went up to him and said, “Come on, buddy, how about giving a guy a break?”
He ignored me and continued writing the ticket. So I called him a pencil-necked Nazi lover. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for worn tires!
My wife then piped up how unreasonable he was being. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket!
This went on for about 15 minutes, until he sneered at us and walked off leaving several expensive tickets.

Just then our bus arrived and we made our way home. I always like to keep an eye out for vehicles with green party stickers, it just makes the day more enjoyable.
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July 23, 2017 4:57pm
- sooty
  
  You win the internet of the day. Yah!
  
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  July 23, 2017 6:18pm
Viking2

Here we go again.

The Government is putting $600 million into a a new company to invest in infrastructure for housing developments.

Its first job will be two Auckland projects intended to support 23,300 new homes in the north and south of the city.

The body, called Crown Infrastructure Partners, is being formed by re-purposing and renaming Crown Fibre Holdings – the company set up to implement the Ultra-Fast broadband initiative

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95022183/government-setting-up-new-housing-infrastructure-company-will-invest-600m

The first two projects on the agenda will be the Auckland North and Auckland South, two proposals that Auckland council submitted for the initial Housing Infrastructure Fund.

“These two large projects can provide an additional 5500 homes in Wainui to the north of Auckland, and 17,800 homes across Pukekohe, Paerata and Drury to the south of the city,” Tolley said.

The investment in the south of the city would include a $172m package of new water infrastructure, rail stations at Paerata and Drury West, and $97m of new roads.
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July 23, 2017 5:03pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Great. Now all we need is for BE to announce that he will have a referendum on the Maori seats (for everyone not just Maori) and the Nats will bolt home with 56%.
  
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  July 23, 2017 5:28pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Great let’s turn all the productive soil around Pukekohe into houses
  
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  July 23, 2017 6:47pm
- Southern Raider
  
  Are they still going to make people switch onto diesel trains to get to pukekohe?
  
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  July 23, 2017 7:56pm
  - Sublime
    
    I knew I should’ve trained as a diesel fitter!
    
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    July 23, 2017 8:42pm
Monique Watson

NK is about to sock one to Hawaii.
1 1
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July 23, 2017 5:32pm
- nasska
  
  My guess is that if NK manages to land a nuke on Hawaii then the hermit fiefdom will within 24 hours cease to exist.
  
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  July 23, 2017 6:12pm
  - RalphT
    
    You think it will last that long? I think it would only be about three hours before the return arrived in Pyongyang
    
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    July 23, 2017 9:05pm
Shawn Herles

This is interesting, and possibly something to worry about…

“Kalashnikov, the Russian weapons manufacturer behind the most effective killing machine in history, has stepped into the future of warfare, announcing its development of autonomous AI-controlled combat robots.”

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/07/21/kalashnikov-group-announces-fully-automated-combat-robots/
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July 23, 2017 5:42pm
noskire

So this winner has been exposed for welfare fraud: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/94967974/christchurch-grandmother-admits-250000-welfare-fraud totalling $250k.
Let’s hazard a guess and say 10% of beneficiaries are ripping off you and me for say a housing allowance of $60 per week for a year (like some Green MP for instance). That would be roughly 25 000 winners getting $3200 a year, from you and me – almost $80 million dollars a year.
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July 23, 2017 5:46pm
Shawn Herles

Winning!

“GREAT TRUMP: Promised To Cut Two Regulations For Every New One. He’s CRUSHING That. Over first 6 months, the Trump administration has cut 16 old regulations for every new one added.”

http://www.dailywire.com/news/18844/great-trump-promised-cut-2-regulations-every-new-james-barrett
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July 23, 2017 6:15pm
Rich Prick

Oh joy, overnight nearly every intersection now has billboards with the smug fraudster sneering at us all.
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July 23, 2017 7:21pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Don’t talk about the PM like that!
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:24pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    We know you’re a little bit simple. So I’ll be nice to you. Fuck off moron. Can we call in a better crowd of lefties please? This lot are useless.
    
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    July 23, 2017 10:40pm
rightoverlabour

WTF?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/78361237/migrants-say-they-are-being-handed-tax-bills-they-cannot-pay

and

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/94956079

Makes fuck all sense to me.

So currency fluctuations can get you a tax liability? I get really pissed off with government stealing money from pensioners. Only sensible place to invest money is a tax haven. ( or the Auckland housing market)
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July 23, 2017 8:17pm
rightoverlabour

$4 Trillion. But the left hates Trump.
Why?

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/20/stuart-varney-trump-has-already-made-america-4-trillion-richer-with-just-six-months-in-office.html
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July 23, 2017 8:21pm
Rodney Randall

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95029364/government-may-back-down-on-immigration-changes

Typical backtrack from a gutless party captured by local govt hacks.

Yet more evidence of National moving away from their core policies. They are centre right no more. Until they move back there, their support base will shift towards Winston First.
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July 23, 2017 9:16pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  No, just more evidence that Woodhouse hasn’t got a clue and is an embarassment to the Nats.
  
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  July 23, 2017 10:28pm
Monique Watson

Clowns are to the left of you. Jokers are on the right.
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July 23, 2017 11:12pm
Monique Watson

A man was walking along a California beach and stumbled across an old lamp.
He picked it up and rubbed it and out popped a genie.
The genie said, “OK. You released me from the lamp, blah blah blah. This is the fourth time this month and I’m getting a little sick of these wishes so you can forget about three. You only get one wish!”
The man sat and thought about it for a while and said, “I’ve always wanted to go to Hawaii but I’m scared to fly and I get very seasick. Could you build me a bridge to Hawaii so I can drive over there to visit?”
The genie laughed and said, “That’s impossible. Think of the logistics of that! How would the supports ever reach the bottom of the Pacific? Think of how much concrete… how much steel!! No, think of another wish.”
The man said OK and tried to think of a really good wish.
Finally, he said, “I’ve been married and divorced four times. My wives always said that I don’t care and that I’m insensitive. So, I wish that I could understand women….know how they feel inside and what they’re thinking when they give me the silent treatment… know why they’re crying, know what they really want when they say ‘nothing’… know how to make them truly happy….”
The genie asked, “Do you want that bridge two lanes or four?”
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July 25, 2017 1:59pm

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