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July 11, 2017 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 July 2017

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General Debate

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waikatogirl

Morning. Get ready for the southerly blast. ? ☔️
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July 11, 2017 8:07am
- srylands
  
  I love how the New Zealand media get into weather porn. Being described as a “rare snow event”. Reading the forecasts I call bullshit on that.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:34am
  - cmm
    
    Of course it’s rare.
    
    There used to be lots of snow, but now due to global warming there’s hardly any snow. That means this must be very rare.
    
    … or something like that.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:49am
  - cmm
    
    Apparently black ice has caused crashes at Queenstown.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/94593742/snow-to-low-levels-for-much-of-south-island-as-cold-front-sweeps-northwards
    
    No. Black ice does not cause crashes. Moron drivers not driving to conditions cause crashes.
    
    And yes, I have been “caught out” by black ice too. I 100% claim responsibility for that. I was driving like a moron.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:13am
- Inandout
  
  It wasn’t so long ago that many mountain ranges in the lower North Island used to be covered in heavy snow for months on end. Now it is a rarity, so any cold snap is treated as a novelty.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:49am
  - srylands
    
    I would be surprised if you could support that assertion with any evidence.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:54am
    - holysheet
      
      Do your own research and come back and refute the comments of Inandout.
      This is called general DEBATE. you put up you case and we will decide, by upticks or downticks who has the best argument.
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:00am
      - srylands
        
        No. Someone asserts that the New Zealand winter climate had significantly warmed in the last few decades. It is perfectly reasonable to ask for some evidence.
        
        This is not about ticking the merits of an argument. The assertion is either true or false. I am not going to do his research for him.
        
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        July 11, 2017 9:07am
    - Gruffydd
      
      https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cold_2x.png
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:05am
    - Inandout
      
      I recently lived in the Manawatu, and the Ruahine and Tararua Ranges were covered in snow for most of the mid winter.
      http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6127/6035015560_556deb339e_b.jpg
      
      This is now a rare sight, but obviously you want more proof.
      
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      July 11, 2017 10:34am
      - rangitoto
        
        How is it now rare if you say it was common when you were there just recently. Doesn’t make any sense.
        
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        July 11, 2017 11:19am
  - Dafixeruppa
    
    Well in 5 years in Wellington, every year the mountains around Wellington have been snow capped every winter. and just 6 or 7 years ago we had enough snow in Wellington to cause closures and snow boarding in the streets.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:09am
  - rangitoto
    
    Maybe in the last ice age
    
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    July 11, 2017 11:16am
- ex-golfer
  
  Why is it news when we have cold weather in winter? Will we get the same “shock” reporting of hot days in summer?
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:50am
  - srylands
    
    The 2011 snow event was definitely newsworthy. However we are literally hit with headlines monthly describing “weather havoc”.
    
    I wish these media outlets would hurry up and die.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:56am
    - Peter
      
      Let’s not forget “weather bombs”
      
      Apparently means “it’s raining and a bit windy”
      
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      July 11, 2017 10:19am
    - KevOB
      
      They are waiting for the seas to rise and flood our mountain valleys.
      Meanwhile they would put the fear of climate change into our children without taking responsibility for their actions.
      
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      July 11, 2017 11:48am
- RF
  
  It’s now being called a “weather bomb”.
  
  Run for the hills…. no wait !!! That’s where the snow is.
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:26am
  - thedavincimode
    
    … pant … gasp … did somebody mention a weather bomb? … panic …
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:49am
Souvlaki

Can some reporter please pin down Little on his current view on the onus of proof in allegations of rape?? DPF posted on this relatively recently but we still have no answer.
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July 11, 2017 8:08am
- peterwn
  
  He is in a cleft stick here – while lowering onus of proof would appease feminists, it would upset law and order softies. There would be a big rise in rape complaints and convictions with more guys doing time for rape. I think of a widower guy X with kids – he was in a relationship and was accused of rape. With a reduced onus he would probably have been convicted (consent being the issue), jailed, kids having to be fostered and a professional worker taken out of action. All because of a woman with an axe to grind. With enough such cases a government would either need to increase the onus of proof or significantly reduce penalties for rape.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:59am
  - KevOB
    
    Burdens of proof should not be reduced. The consequences are too high for anyone to be wrongly convicted.
    
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    July 11, 2017 11:55am
Happychappy

A vote four the coalition is a vote for the beneficiary to spend their Welfare payment on all the Luxuries in life as a all the other necessities will be paid for by Labours give away alternative Budget that will be announced by Andrew Little today.
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July 11, 2017 8:09am
Maggy Wassilieff

As I mentioned last night, I’m going to vote Labour.

But, the more I think about spending the $700 supplementary winter payout, the more I realise it wont’ be enough for my overseas jaunt.

So dear KBers, should I dump the hubby, and pick up his and my $450 single winter payouts? (The dear boy will hand it over).
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July 11, 2017 8:13am
- RalphT
  
  Dear Maggy, I’m sorry that things in your life are so bad that you are thinking of voting Labour. However, if winter warmth is a concern, I suggest you get in touch with Johnboy, as he may be able to send you up one of his flock; the wool could be used for a winter woolly and in summer you could have a nice bbq or two. JB may be able to suggest other ways in which he could help keep you warm.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:22am
  - B.L.Zeebub
    
    I believe JB has a one bar heater of his own he is keen to share.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:37am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Nothing that a withering stare wouldn’t put in its place. 🙂
      
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      July 11, 2017 12:31pm
- waikatogirl
  
  Dear Maggy, your hubby will be sad that he will be replaced by a flock of sheep and possibly their lewd shepherd to help you stay warm over the winter.
  Voting for your new lefty friends you will receive $700, but lose a decent tax cut from National which you could cover the cost of your heating.
  
  Difficult choice. Those wet sheep are appealing. ?
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:33am
- KevOB
  
  Labour? What’s the appeal? My position has been I don’t care who is in government so long as they are honest i.e. are capable and have overall integrity.
  
  If it’s winter blues or arthritis which troubles I have found a combination of ancient plant oils which have completely removed my knee and hip pain. It’s been gone for nearly a year. They help mood too. I don’t know the process but suspect the internal CNS chemical messenger passing system may be being reset.
  
  We are making some trial samples available free to KBers.
  flix@slingshot.co.nz
  
  Cold but gorgeous morning with the orange sun poking its head above the hills.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:54am
  - pdm
    
    KevOB – obviously a townie.
    
    Orange Sun or red sky in the morning means lousy weather. Best you batten down the hatches.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:52am
    - KevOB
      
      Righto.
      The sun here may be refracted by some range and we get lovely orange bands for a short time.
      
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      July 11, 2017 12:08pm
- holysheet
  
  oh goodie finally a reason to vote for the angry prick. I will look forward to spending my $450 on a nice case of realy realy* good wine. That will warm the cockles of my heart. Mrs Holy is already surfing the net checking out the best buys.
  
  Sorry National but needs must.
  
  **holysheet-school-of-wilful-and-capricious-spelling
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:07am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    oiiiii. What’s going on here?
    
    You don’t get $450 if there’s a Mrs Holy.
    You’ve got to share $700 between the two of you…
    Only singles get $450;
    that’s why I’m considering sending the old millstone off to the handy-man lean-to.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:19am
    - holysheet
      
      Being the good looker that I am, Mrs Holy selected a much older man, so It would be a single for me.
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:23am
  - tf78
    
    Sorry to be the one to ruin your dream of a case of wine but unfortunately you will get your $450 in installments of $8 odd/week.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:20am
    - holysheet
      
      Bugger, even slave labour cannot get it right. Would the wine merchant take the payments direct from wins by installments?
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:26am
    - KevOB
      
      I count 22 weeks between May-Sept inc. That is $20.45/week for $450 or $31.18/week for $700.
      
      I won’t be taking up Labours’ offer: National has beaten them to it and rightly discerned the need for the larger overall increases. It’s hard to be sure until April but my family may be getting $100/week with budget changes. That removes any of my concerns about budgeting, heating and hardship. The benefit system is adequate if carefully managed.
      
      Power is always a problem for beneficiaries and a seasonal benefit variation has merit. There is merit too in having it paid directly to the credit of the beneficiary against their power account.
      
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      July 11, 2017 12:37pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Maggy, I am concerned with your use of the word “dump”. Will the Hubby be alive or not if “dumped”? If not alive, and you vote Labour, would he haunt you for the rest of your life? Is their life Insurance involved? If so you will have to be very careful in how he gets dumped, Insurance Fraud is serious. Do you have a conscience? Voting Labour could cause depression for years after the event. I do think you need some urgent psychological advice. For a small fee…..
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Q1. depends on your definition of “alive”
    Q.2. No
    Q.3. No.
    Q.4. No
    
    I don’t do small fees….
    (you sound cheap)
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:32am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Ok. For a Large sum of money..
      
      As for the definition of Alive..
      
      Living things display certain characteristics that may be absent from material objects. MRS GREN is an acronym often used to help remember all the necessary features of living organisms: Movement, Respiration, Sensitivity, Growth, Reproduction, Excretion and Nutrition.
      
      Which might be missing in your case? ( as in a virus is alive, but…)
      
      Please note that when asking about your conscience, it was only in regard to your voting habit, not the state of “hubby”.
      
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      July 11, 2017 11:17am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’ve checked the hubby… after his wee encounter with “man-flu” last week:
        
        Movement: minimal
        Respiration: I think so
        Sensitivity: R U Joking?????
        Growth: Nil or negative
        Excretion: Oooh….. there are limits to “checking”
        Nutrition: Does chocolate count?
        
        wrt my conscience when voting…na, I place my vote and suck up the consequences.. same as the rest of us suckas.
        
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        July 11, 2017 3:24pm
Paulus

I am disgusted in that the Labour Party are of the view that a gentleman in Wellington, who arrived from Germany as a boy refugee, is considered to be a national Party Election scam as he is giving a Children’s Hospital to Wellington, with no strings attached.
Thank you Mr Djumanchik from all the Children of New Zealand.
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July 11, 2017 8:15am
- Colville
  
  Labour are the party of bitterness and envy.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:20am
- oldgolfer
  
  And some medic was on radio yesterday afternoon saying, yes, it was great that $50m had been donated, but the government was remiss in not doing more. I nearly crashed.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:24am
  - cmm
    
    Nobody is forcing the medic to draw his full salary.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:32am
  - Inandout
    
    The left wing disease has even infected the medical profession, but thank goodness not most general practitioners.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:53am
    - SteveRemmington
      
      It isn’t surprising Inandout.
      
      Its called ‘The Long March Through The Institutions’
      
      Worth a google search.
      
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      July 11, 2017 10:42am
  - srylands
    
    It really is disturbing. How did we end up with a large proportion of the population with this mindset?
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:01am
    - Pateke
      
      We live in the age of entitlement where we do not need to work to have what those better off have. After the money go round we find we don’t really pay taxes at all so why would we worry about where the money comes from? It just arrives, so why not ask for more? Indeed $700 won’t cover our winter bill, because we leave the heaters on all night with the windows open to let the P fumes out cos we don’t want to be turfed out on the street….again. In fact we really need $7,000 to get through this winter.
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:19am
  - RF
    
    The disease must be catching. Rachel Smellys stand in at 5am this morning was blathering on that National should not take the credit for the proposed hospital as they should have built it.
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:40am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Is that for real Paulus, can you point me to that please? Genuine question, Id like to rub my lefty mates noses in it if I can.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:25am
  - Paulus
    
    Ask Grunter.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:27am
- VicParking
  
  Red radio this morning have dug up troughers to critise the new Hospital. They have the gaul to suggest that the new hospital will not be a good as the old, will have only tge same number of beds, that the money raised by other sources will be used instead of money from the government. On and on.
  noth only donthe left like spending other peoples money they open the horses mouth and state that the horse needs to visit a dentist.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:35am
  - holysheet
    
    Now now Vic dont be so disparaging of our little pony. Is she a long lost daughter of Helun? Seems to be following in her footsteps.
    like mother like daughter?
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:11am
- KevOB
  
  One of my best friends was a boy of 9 from Germany. He spoke no English when he started at Mt Cook School. He had come as a displaced person with his mother.
  Compassion is passing love around.
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:00am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  I note that most of the leftie detractors have been living high on the tax payments of others and bleating that they don’t get enough of other people’s money.
  Perhaps C&CDHB could spend the $$ they’ve saved to build a specialist eye hospital.
  There seem to be plenty who need an optrectomy – the severing of the chord that links the eyeball to the a-hole producing a really shitty outlook on life.
  
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  July 11, 2017 10:34am
- rangitoto
  
  Agreed but he wasn’t a boy refugee. He came here as a toolmaker.
  
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  July 11, 2017 11:35am
  - RalphT
    
    How appropriate; the naysayers are a bunch of tools.
    
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    July 11, 2017 11:41am
Monique Watson

The weather here is fine and both tobacco and alcohol are cheap.
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July 11, 2017 8:22am
- VicParking
  
  And this how much more of it you can buy with the Slavemasters bribe.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Can I get flight there (July-August) for $700?
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:39am
oldgolfer

And Muppet Man was just on RNZ saying the $700 could, in reality, be spent on anything – as it will be.
Beggars belief. Espiner tackled him on his and Labour’s slumping poll ratings but not this wild largesse.
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July 11, 2017 8:22am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  For added convenience, they can combine marijuana legalisation and the $700 handout in the same bill.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:32am
- cmm
  
  Well if you spend this $700 on KFC and upgrading your TV, then there will be another hand out next winter.
  
  Rule No. 1: Never solve the problem.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:34am
  - Prince
    
    More good news, NZ First will remove GST on food, so more KFC for your $700.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:54am
    - cmm
      
      And TV is food for the soul…..
      
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      July 11, 2017 8:59am
      - holysheet
        
        Its not the TV you idiot, it’s all about the content. Slave labour want to control the content even more than they already do now
        
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        July 11, 2017 9:14am
    - KevOB
      
      What food? What is food? Become a tax lawyer and see the dollars.
      
      The govt. wisely decided to have an all encompassing GST. Other jurisdictions envy us for it. I wouldn’t like to have to draft the amendment provisions required. No one would be satisfied.
      
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      July 11, 2017 8:10pm
- ex-golfer
  
  So will those that receive the “power bill” bribe be ineligible to receive Work and Income assistance for power bills over the winter months (ie: double-dipping)?
  I bet the non-existant policy wonks at the Labour party have not thought of this – they are just happy to hand out more of our hard-earned tax to the lazy losers and bludgers (and yes, I am including asset-rich NZ Superannuitants in that).
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:47am
  - cmm
    
    Double dipping???
    
    Dude, you don’t know how to play the game. You should be able to hit quadruple dipping with a teeny amount of imagination.
    
    Remember Auntie Helen trying to hand out WFF to those on the dole? With policies like that double dipping looks like austerity cut-backs.
    
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    July 11, 2017 10:04am
hmmokrightitis

Anyone else noticing a real lag in page loads on all threads? Ive tried on our LAN and wireless, both of which are blazing fast, compared with other site load times, and KB has become really slow to load.
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July 11, 2017 8:39am
- Southern Raider
  
  Been like this for last week. It’s painful
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:43am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Thanks SR. DPF, suspect that bloody awful Hobson ad has something to do with it, that or the site needs cleaning up.
    
    Please help 😀
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:49am
    - waikatogirl
      
      With the election coming up and lots of popcorn on hand we will need KB at it’s optimum speed. It is taking an eternity for KB load at present. ?
      
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      July 11, 2017 9:01am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        We’ve just had UF BB installed and I was blaming the modem the Chorus chaps left us with.
        
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        July 11, 2017 9:41am
  - ztev
    
    My chrome web browser is ok
    
    But what is slowing the time down is the bloody 36 cookies KB drags along with it. That means another 10 sites to connect with.
    
    news media ones have nearly 100 cookies
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:27am
    - KevOB
      
      Ghostery has blocked 6 trackers on this KB page.
      
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      July 11, 2017 12:49pm
- cmm
  
  It’s the new “edgy”, “mobile friendly” web framework.
  
  Slow, renders incorrectly and the threading has gone to hell…
  
  Problem with software engineers is you can’t stop the bastards from fiddling… something works fine, but nope – got to” improve” it which generally means stuffing it up.
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:04am
  - holysheet
    
    There you go, the secrets revealed from an insider.
    Who would have thought the elites would do such a thing?
    
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    July 11, 2017 9:17am
- chris
  
  I hadn’t noticed any issues on my iPhone, but now I’m catching up on stuff on Chrome on my Mac, I’ve noticed a problem. The reason for the slow down seems to be due to something not loading correctly (counter.js and/or ads), which then prevents other stuff from working until the thing that doesn’t load times out. I think DPF really needs to pay someone to sort out the issues on this site. Shouldn’t take much to fix. I’d offer to do it (I’ve done quite a lot of work with WordPress, in particular with one site at least as big as this one), but I’m a bit busy at the moment with my own projects.
  
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  July 11, 2017 6:53pm
VicParking

I’m pleased the weeds are moving up hill. Anything to get them out of my Garden. I’m also pleased the trails bikes and ATV’s are also moving up there as well. With the sea rising I hope in a few years I will have a beach across the road. I also wont need Andy’s winter handout as frosts will be a thing of the past. Life is good…..???⛱
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July 11, 2017 8:44am
- lifesgood
  
  Yep, that’s me!
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:59am
peterwn

Someone talking about ‘fundamental’ human rights yesterday. There was a spat between a truckie and boy racers in a street called ‘Industry Road’. Boy racer claimed truckie clipped his car and he and mates retaliated by assaulting the truckie and smashing up his cab. It is not clear why the car was clipped but the odds are that the car was parked or stopped in an inappropriate place. A truckie does not turn up for work with the aim of clipping cars. Especially given the name of the road, he had a fundamental right to earn a living and go about his daily work unmolested. He had to be in Industry Road and the boy racers did not. If the boy racers had to be there they should not have been obstructing legitimate users of Industry Road and should have kept their vehicles out of the way. They had no ‘fundamental’ human right to be in Industry Road.
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July 11, 2017 9:09am
- waikatogirl
  
  Saw a news clip on that (google news). Bloody disgusting behaviour by the boy races. They bashed and terrorised the truck driver and vandalised his truck, causing $k’s of damage. The car was dragged by the left side of the truck where the driver has no vision. The boy racers only relented from their thuggery and destruction when another truck arrived.
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:48am
- kowtow
  
  The ‘boy racers’ ( euphemism for useless c#.nts in noisey cars) were unlawfully assembled and the cops should be doing their job bashing heads and the courts should be shitting all over them , if the cops could ever get the useless arses in front of the bench.
  
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  July 11, 2017 9:54am
  - Longknives
    
    The Cops are far too busy at Mosques and Maraes doing their ‘Cultural Sensitivity’ training with Dame Devoy to protect the Public these days…
    
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    July 11, 2017 10:26am
    - kowtow
      
      They could be like some of their French colleagues and refuse to stand guard.
      
      “Le Parisien newspaper, which revealed the leaked memo, claimed the officers were identified for acts such as refusing to stand guard outside a synagogue or refusing to respect a minute’s silence. One officer even put out a call to murder on Facebook, which landed him in court, Le Parisien claimed. ”
      
      https://www.thelocal.fr/20160309/radicalisation-of-police-officers-a-growing-concern-for-france
      
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      July 11, 2017 10:51am
    - VicParking
      
      This means the courts has less money to be able to wet bus tickets. Wail, rant, plead where is the Crusher when you need her.
      
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      July 11, 2017 3:20pm
  - Gabby
    
    If Crutcher hadn’t got firm with them and sorted it all out we’d have a boy racer problem. Just as well she eyebrowed them into oblivion.
    
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    July 11, 2017 10:53am
cmm

Apparently one in 6 can’t afford the $76 fee.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/94463814/students-pay-millions-to-sit-ncea-exams-but-one-in-six-cant-afford-76-fee

You’ve had 18 years to save up for this. That’s less than 10 cents a week. Or two fizzy drinks a year. Or one pack of smokes every 7 years.

Clearly education is not a priority in the lower decile neighbourhood.
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July 11, 2017 9:35am
- Longknives
  
  Strangely there is always enough money for the daily Pokies, a Box of Cody’s Bourbon and Cola, a Bag of Weed and petfood for ‘Adolf’ the family Pit Bull…
  
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  July 11, 2017 10:19am
- Gabby
  
  Think of the chimneys those little layabouts could’ve cleaned in 18 years cmmie bokkie. It’s skandelous.
  
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  July 11, 2017 10:58am
  - cmm
    
    Quite. Nothing wrong with a bit of hard dirty work when you’re young.
    
    I worked in a cattery cleaning up cat crap for two summer holidays. That would have easily paid for exam fees.
    
    These days a kid just has to take a trolley-gathering up job at New World for two afternoons to pay these expenses.
    
    They’d do that if they thought education was worth it.
    
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    July 11, 2017 7:28pm
- Lucia Maria
  
  No one saves up for a $76 fee for NCEA exams. Most parents don’t even realise that there is a fee until it turns up on their school invoice as a non-donation item mid-year when their first child reaches Year 11. It took me by surprise a few years back.
  
  Back in the day of School Cert, Sixth Form Cert and Bursary, I don’t think there was a fee for exams. Does anyone remember their parents having to pay such a fee? I don’t.
  
  The bizarro thing is that exams are separated out as something NZ parents have to pay for in a supposedly free education system. And contrast with University where there is no separate exam fee, it’s all included in the course fees as a bundle.
  
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  July 11, 2017 11:45am
  - VicParking
    
    I sat School Certificate in 1965 and there was a fee. I had to wash all the windows in and out before dad would pay it. Has stuck in my mind since.
    
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    July 11, 2017 3:24pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, there was a fee for external exams.
    Here’s a Parliamentary question about the 1986 fees:
    https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=wlGSFDf-DV8C&pg=PA3501&lpg=PA3501&dq=How+much+were+School+Certificate+exam+fees?&source=bl&ots=N7AJRPbzpi&sig=NlsnhTtujRJRnhNwSGM4m3whn6s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid8OrPpYDVAhVGFZQKHfN5DDYQ6AEISDAG#v=onepage&q=How%20much%20were%20School%20Certificate%20exam%20fees%3F&f=false
    
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    July 11, 2017 3:38pm
- KevOB
  
  I doubt the one-in-six can’t afford it assertion. We have been given the form each required time and as automatically qualifying send it in.
  
  It may be that the benefits have been calculated excluding such fees and this is a top up adjustment.
  
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  July 11, 2017 12:57pm
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  Or you little shits could do one days WORK. That would cover most of it.
  Fuck off with the can’t afford bullshit
  
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  July 11, 2017 6:18pm
KevOB

Greenhouse gas theory incorrect
A new paper is reported:

“The earth’s ‘greenhouse’ effect is a function of the sun and atmospheric pressure, which results from gravity and the mass of the atmosphere, rather than the amount of greenhouse gases such as CO2 and water vapor in the atmosphere.

So precise is the formula, the authors of the paper told WND, that, by using it, they were able to correctly predict the temperature of other celestial bodies not included in their original analysis.”

https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/New-Insights-on-the-Physical-Nature-of-the-Atmospheric-Greenhouse-Effect-Deduced-from-an-Empirical-Planetary-Temperature-Model.pdf
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July 11, 2017 9:40am
- Gruffydd
  
  1. Never publish in OMICS journals. They have 10,000 or so journals running with 1-2 articles or no papers in some issues over years!!
  
  2. Never attend their conferences. Only money minting acts.
  
  3. Their Impact Factors are fake/ self-assigned.
  
  4. Their pay and publish models does not involve peer-review.
  
  5. Editorial boards are funny and weird- no names.
  
  6. They operate from Hyderabad, India, from a small house of an individual.
  
  7. No better than on line scam.
  
  8. thanks to Jeffrey Beal’s List that they are at right place: http://scholarlyoa.com/publishers/
  
  Can I trust OMICS publishing group?. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_I_trust_OMICS_publishing_group [accessed Jul 11, 2017].
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMICS_Publishing_Group
  OMICS Publishing Group is a publisher of open access journals that is widely regarded as predatory.[2][3][4][5][6][7] It issued its first publication in 2008.[8] According to a 2012 article in The Chronicle of Higher Education about 60 percent of the group’s 200 journals had never actually published anything.[9]
  
  Academics and the United States government have questioned the validity of peer review by OMICS journals, the appropriateness of author fees and marketing, and the apparent advertising of the names of scientists as journal editors or conference speakers without their knowledge or permission.[3][4][5][6][7] As a result, the U.S. National Institutes of Health does not accept OMICS publications for listing in PubMed Central and sent a cease-and-desist letter to OMICS in 2013, demanding that OMICS discontinue false claims of affiliation with U.S. government entities or employees.
  
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  July 11, 2017 10:06am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    That’s where Berkeley Earth (BEST) published their results
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_Earth
    
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    July 11, 2017 10:43am
    - rightoverlabour
      
      So that would be another griff own goal I assume?
      
      9 3
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      July 11, 2017 11:49am
    - Gruffydd
      
      I very carefully read that link Dr Maggy Wassilieff Phd botany.
      Guess what lovey ?
      The original paper was published by Geoinformatics &
      Geostatistics: An Overview published by https://www.scitechnol.com/
      http://static.berkeleyearth.org/papers/Results-Paper-Berkeley-Earth.pdf
      Others were published in the journal JGR-Atmospheres of the American Geophysical union .
      http://berkeleyearth.org/papers/
      
      You are full of shite as usual.
      Don’t forget to email DPF because I called you out on your rubbish yet again sweety.
      
      3 15
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      July 11, 2017 12:55pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Self-publish?
        Make up your peer-reviewed journal
        https://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/geoinformatics-and-geostatistics/
        
        10 1
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        July 11, 2017 1:43pm
      - Gruffydd
        
        Maggy sweety I called you on trying to say best published in the same predatory journal
        
        That’s where Berkeley Earth (BEST) published their results
        
        This was a direct lie my dear.
        You have failed to support your claim instead now claim they self published.
        Yes They were published in volume one issue one of a journal a warning sign of a poor paper .
        The journal has continued to be published and is independent of BEST.
        I can find no connection between its publishers and predatory behavior.
        You told a unsupported bullshite and followed it with more .
        BEST did not self publish .
        Two lies lovey.
        
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        July 11, 2017 3:49pm
  - rightoverlabour
    
    Obviously, you have read and analysed the document referred to. Could you please specifically explain exactly where the authors are in error?
    
    8 2
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    July 11, 2017 12:18pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      The rubbish in question mostly looks at the at usa record.
      
      Time of Observation Bias must be included as it is established that the time you take the readings effects the result.
      ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ushcn/papers/karl-etal1986.pdf
      Explained here.
      https://judithcurry.com/2015/02/22/understanding-time-of-observation-bias/
      
      The USA is switching to the new modern technology
      U.S. Climate Reference Network uses electronic measurement vrs the traditional glass bulb recording method.
      The two different measuring methods give a slightly different result
      They known this from running the two methods side by side. This systematic error must be accounted for.
      http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00170.1
      
      As already pointed out the net result on the global temperature record is less warming .
      This is due to the adjustment for the change from measuring sea temperature in buckets to using the engine intake .As you pull the bucket up the side of a ship it cools slightly .
      There is also an adjustment like the USA one with the switch to buoys to measure temperature not shipping.
      http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-14-00006.1
      
      2 13
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      July 11, 2017 1:39pm
  - KevOB
    
    Would you take the Hadcrut maintainers advice to seek out friendly reviewers to hide the lack of warming that they had detected?
    
    Publishing generally has become a racket with controlled access and marketing.
    
    6 1
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    July 11, 2017 1:07pm
    - Gruffydd
      
      No Kevin I would take they submit to peer review in a reputable journal not some pay to be published scam.
      
      The most convincing result in science is found by having multiple teams approaching the same question.
      We have.
      https://crudata.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/
      https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datatools/records
      https://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
      http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/gwp/temp/ann_wld.html
      http://www.remss.com/research/climate
      Most adjusted of all records
      http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
      
      These all give a similar result.
      
      The slightly different methods used accounts for most of the differences .
      Some use infilling for places we don’t have stations Some don’t included the poles. The satellites show more variability year to year.
      You can graph these records here including generating trends etc.
      http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot
      There are other organizations that also work on the temperature record in agreement to those already linked to .
      
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      July 11, 2017 2:11pm
      - calendar girl
        
        Pleased to see you have the decency, Gruffydd, to address KevOB using an appropriate name – Kevin.
        
        So why do you persist in addressing Maggy (Wassilieff) with insulting terms of false ‘endearment’ such as “lovey” and “sweety” (12:55), and “sweety”, “my dear” and “lovey” (3:49pm)?
        
        You can accept or reject any of the science that takes your fancy. But there’s no justification in personalising your argument with cheap, sneering and sexist language against someone with a different viewpoint.
        
        7 1
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        July 11, 2017 5:32pm
      - KevOB
        
        Ah, but the Hadcrut team and their international mates wanted to pick their own reviewers…. They left a juicy email collection showing their collaboration to hide their embarrassment and not knowing what to do when their measurements showed no change.
        
        The paper I published the url for refers to using satellite and other extraterrestrial data as it purports to offer confirmation by computing the temperature of other bodies in space. These plainly have nothing to do with any terrestrial measurements or methods.
        
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        July 11, 2017 8:23pm
BananaLlama

Starting to like President Macron more and more even if he is a giant Autist.
2 4
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July 11, 2017 9:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Winston was on form this morning on RNZ.
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20170711-0810-there_will_be_consequences_for_green_party-128.mp3
He made mincemeat of Espiner.
Listen from about 1 minute in (to avoid hearing Andrew Little)
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July 11, 2017 9:50am
- thedavincimode
  
  What a bitch slapping. Espinor should realise that his best chance is to speak to him after lunch – assuming he can get hold of him or hear anything above the background noise.
  
  18 1
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  July 11, 2017 10:04am
  - Gabby
    
    After lunch is way too late.
    
    1 6
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    July 11, 2017 1:53pm
- 4077th
  
  “Can I give you a number? Yes, will I give it to you? No. Why? because we pay for the Poll, not you!”. Love him or hate him he is the master of telling someone to fuck off without actually saying it.
  
  Sounds to me he’s got the Greens number and is pushing NZF as being the second largest party. He may well be right in which case he has shown his hand. Today’s greens are tomorrows hay.
  
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  July 11, 2017 10:50am
- Gabby
  
  He thought Auckland is Awkward, poor ol’ fulla.
  
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  July 11, 2017 11:00am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    No,
    Kim Hill thought Guyon would be having an awkward interview…… and so it was (from Espiner’s point of view).
    
    11 1
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    July 11, 2017 11:29am
    - Gabby
      
      No, Guyon thought his name was Auckland, which puzzled Kim Hill.
      
      1 5
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      July 11, 2017 1:51pm
DifferentPerspective

The science is ~~faked~~ settled

So respected statistician proves that the ‘adjustment’ of temperature data was carried out in such a way as to “prove” climate warming.

Funny how if you:
– adjust down older data, and
– adjust up recent data
you can create a warming trend!

No wonder they beneficiaries of the lie want to talk about “consensus” rather than the facts!

Chicken Little Climate Alarmism in all it’s glory.
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July 11, 2017 10:07am
- rightoverlabour
  
  How DARE you present data that might not be approved by Griff.
  Milo in an interview explained why he left an NGO..
  
  Watch this
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMVkyfOdfD0
  
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  July 11, 2017 11:59am
Biscuit

‘Southern blast’, my rear end.

Just about to head into Wellington for the America’s Cup parade.

Blue skies, no wind, typical Costa del Wellington weather!

We’ll be in our sunhats and snazzy shades and will have the strongest suncream splashed on our faces…
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July 11, 2017 10:40am
- kowtow
  
  Wellington ………the Riviera of Antarctica .
  
  16 1
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  July 11, 2017 10:46am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    SWMBO is Christchurch-bound as we speak, and will be arriving from the north just before the crap weather arrives from the south.
    
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    July 11, 2017 11:06am
Hugh Pavletich

LOW COST FREIGHT TRANSPORT, AIR TRAVEL & CRUISING … WHY ISNT THERE AFFORDABLE HOUSING EVERYWHERE TOO ?

… Isn’t it remarkable how so much is becoming increasingly affordable and accessible … other than housing because of political and bureaucratic meddling ? …

… FREIGHT TRANSPORT / CONTAINERIZATION …

How Containerization Shaped the Modern World – YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn7IoT_WSRA

Containerization: The Most Influential Invention That You’ve Never Heard Of – YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ZskaqBshs

… AIR TRAVEL …

Why Planes Don’t Fly Faster … Wendover Productions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1QEj09Pe6k

How Budget Airlines Work … Wendover Productions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=069y1MpOkQY
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July 11, 2017 11:03am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  … CRUISING …
  
  Discount Cruises, Last Minute Cruises, Cruise, Cruise Line, Cruise Vacation
  
  http://www.vacationstogo.com/
  
  … AND … AFFORDABLE HOUSING … WHY NOT EVERYWHERE ? …
  
  We know how to produce affordable housing … example …
  
  Pulte Homes … Phoenix … Arizona
  
  https://pulte.com/homes/arizona/phoenix/florence/parkside-at-anthem-at-merrill-ranch-7739#CommunityDetailsView
  
  … and check out other affordable or near affordable North American markets …
  
  2017 13th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
  
  http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
  
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  July 11, 2017 11:04am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    … Access yesterday’s posts …
    
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/07/general_debate_10_july_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1965988 ( … 15 sec delayed response time … ) … and … https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/07/links-10-july-2017/#comment-2912889
    
    … Why are the local government bureaucratic basket cases such as Auckland failing to learn from the smaller and therefore functional local government units of Selwyn, Tauranga and Waimakariri ? … see bottom copy email of 30 June 2017 …
    
    VIDEO: Bill English on affordable housing in Auckland | Radio New Zealand News
    
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/334786/video-bill-english-on-affordable-housing-in-auckland
    
    1 24
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    July 11, 2017 11:19am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      … Superb 6 Part Video Documentary …
      
      Building the world’s biggest ship … Maersk
      
      http://www.maersk.com/en/hardware/triple-e/triple-e-videos
      
      In a dock yard the size of a large airfield, an army of engineers is building a ship like no other. it’s longer than 4 football pitches and capable of carrying more than 18,000 containers. It’s the world’s largest ocean going cargo vessel – the Triple-E. Watch all episodes in Discovery Channel’s documentary “Building the world’s biggest ship”. … VIEW & READ more via hyperlink above …
      
      1 18
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      July 11, 2017 12:37pm
      - Gabby
        
        Think how many Aucklanders could live on there.
        
        1 5
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        July 11, 2017 1:50pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Having pissed off everyone here with his property market “expertise”, Hugh is now pontificating on other topics.
        Must say it’s a welcome diversion.
        
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        July 11, 2017 2:33pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Capt Mainwaring … Again you are wrong.
        
        Above, I am just illustrating as succinctly as possible, how so much else has become increasingly affordable and accessible … EXCEPT housing in too many metro markets.
        
        What too many of you ill-informed guys on Kiwiblog sadly don’t appear to realize … is that suburbia is the ‘cradle of conservatism’ … as the former Deputy Editor of the UK (Tory) Telegraph, Allister Heath, made clear a few years back …
        
        The real ticking time bomb for the Tories is home ownership … Allister Heath … UK Telegraph
        
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/11917816/The-real-ticking-time-bomb-for-the-Tories-is-home-ownership.html
        
        … extract …
        
        ‘… Remarkably, 354,700 new homes were built in France last year, compared with 140,880 across the UK, a pathetically inadequate number barely half of that required. The French were actually bitterly disappointed with their own performance: their recent average has been around 400,000 homes a year. …’
        
        Does the New Zealand National Party really want to be seen … like California … as anti family ? … Joel Kotkin and Wendell Cox explained recently …
        
        Is California anti-family? Joel Kotkin and Wendell Cox … Los Angeles Daily News
        
        http://www.dailynews.com/opinion/20170709/is-california-anti-family-joel-kotkin-and-wendell-cox
        
        We selfless souls of conservatism of Greater Christchurch will bear the burden (and associated abuse) of leading this country on the righteous path of restoring affordability … in spite of you ‘heathens of conservatism’ ! … as I explained to Chris Hutching of The Press / Fairfax last week …
        
        Christchurch leads cooling house market trend | Stuff.co.nz
        
        https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/94418443/christchurch-leads-cooling-house-market-trend
        
        … and back mid – March with Rob Stock of Fairfax as well …
        
        The NZ homeowners who hate high house prices are revealed in Labour polling | Stuff.co.nz
        
        http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/90244287/The-NZ-homeowners-who-hate-high-house-prices-are-revealed-in-Labour-polling
        
        I’m expect you and other conservative heathens to plead forgiveness from me in due course … including Prime Minister Bill English if yesterday;s ‘performance’ with Kim Hill of Morning Report is any guide (access links posted up thread).
        
        The burdens we true conservatives bear !
        
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        July 11, 2017 6:15pm
      - Steve (North Shore)
        
        Think how many hiding places on there where Gabby would be lost forever
        
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        July 11, 2017 6:27pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Focus on housing market correction could be self-fulfilling prophecy: BNZ … Susan Edmunds … Fairfax / Stuff NZ
        
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/94633287/Focus-on-housing-market-correction-could-be-self-fulfilling-prophecy-BNZ?cid=app-iPad
        
        … Pavletich comment on thread …
        
        Paulson …
        
        Your comment is awaiting moderation
        
        The New Zealand Banks are in no hurry to repeat the 2007 Irish experience … when the housing bubble burst there … putting all its Banks to the wall and requiring bailouts exceeding 70 billion euro or about $NZ 109 billion.
        
        Irish housing across its metros on average went from 4.7 times annual household income in 2007 to 2.7 a few years later. Australia is currently 5.5 times … New Zealand 5.9.
        
        Hugely dangerous.
        
        Following the bust, the Central Bank of Ireland found it was high income multiple lending that did the most damage to the Irish Banks … and it imposed a general lending cap of 3.5 times annual household incomes. A year earlier the Bank of England had capped at 4.5 times. In normal housing markets housing should not exceed 3.0 times annual household income requiring sensible mortgage loads of about 2.5 times (Demographia Survey).
        
        The days of housing inflation are over.
        
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        July 11, 2017 8:57pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        FURTHER COMMENT … Focus on housing market correction could be self-fulfilling prophecy: BNZ … Susan Edmunds … Fairfax / Stuff NZ
        
        … Further Pavletich comment on Fairfax article thread below …
        
        Paulson …
        
        Your comment is awaiting moderation
        
        Tau Sagittar … Note the Irish new housing production ramped up quickly through to 07 prior to collapsing … with a huge influx of Polish construction workers. The Irish authorities never learned a thing about the critical importance of dealing with land supply and infrastructure financing …and not surprisingly … Bubble 2.0 is well underway. Google search to learn more.
        
        Supply-starved bubbles burst too … e.g. California and the UK. By definition all housing bubbles are unnecessary (e.g. Texas … most of middle North America) and unsustainable …and wreck havoc within poorly governed economies.
        
        David11 … Only dealing with median house prices and gross annual median household incomes across metros. Refer Demographia Surveys schedule at http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org … in particular the 2008 and 2011 ones. There are 13 annual surveys in total to date.
        
        As the Central Bank of Ireland research found, it was the high multiple to income lending (more so than high loan to value) that does in the financial institutions and their customers. It is most certainly not a pretty picture here in New Zealand and Australia.
        
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        July 12, 2017 3:30am
Manolo

United against Soros:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-hungary-soros-idUSKBN19V1J4

Israel’s foreign ministry has issued a statement denouncing U.S. billionaire George Soros, a move that appeared designed to align Israel more closely with Hungary ahead of a visit to Budapest next week by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
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July 11, 2017 11:12am
rightoverlabour

I always thought the poms were daft, but this takes the cake.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jul/10/primary-school-children-lose-marks-in-sats-tests-for-mis-shaped-commas

(Apologies to poms who are not daft)
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July 11, 2017 11:40am
- Gabby
  
  Pearson are a bunch of dopey yanker fucknuts.
  
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  July 11, 2017 1:48pm
Monique Watson

The lag is painful. The DDos attack originates from the Ukraine. Fuckers. But clever fuckers,
7 1
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July 11, 2017 11:41am
- Steve (North Shore)
  
  I was so close to asking you why, but then I got a phone call from Hillary – so decided to not ask
  
  2 0
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  July 11, 2017 6:29pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Was Hillary pissed and Bill doing the new neighbours wife?
    
    3 1
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    July 11, 2017 6:44pm
    - nasska
      
      You’ve got to give credit where credit’s due Dad…..Bill would be the greatest rooter of the modern age.
      
      But how the Hell he stays off the bottle when he’s married to Hilary has got me beat. 🙂
      
      3 0
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      July 11, 2017 7:00pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Did Bill roger the shit out of John Boy Key and Hillary snapped up $14 million of KIWI taxpayer dollars, so John Boy resigned and we all say nothing just like the LAX Peter incident under the Klarkula regime?
        
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        July 11, 2017 7:11pm
      - nasska
        
        Buggered if I know Dad. All this deviant sexual activity at high levels is a bit out of the field of expertise of your average back country cockie. 🙂
        
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        July 11, 2017 7:17pm
Manolo

If not the NYT or CNN, then The WaPo goes with fake news:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/07/10/is-mike-pence-betting-it-will-all-come-crashing-down-on-trump/?utm_term=.279361660c97

While cultivating support from deep-pocketed business interests is nothing new in GOP politics, Pence’s activities raise the question of whether he is doing this for Trump-Pence 2020 — or for himself. As Vogel’s piece points out, Pence’s intimate confabs with wealthy donors and conservative power brokers “have fueled speculation among Republican insiders that he is laying the foundation for his own political future, independent from Mr. Trump.”
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July 11, 2017 12:46pm
- virtualmark
  
  Why do you say it’s fake? I mean I’m genuinely interested in how you reached that point of view. Do you have proof of it being wrong? Or is it that you just wish it is wrong?
  
  As far as I can see the story is careful to describe a few events that are factual (such as Pence establishing a PAC), and from then on clearly point to speculation by Republican insiders, rather than by the reporters.
  
  Respectfully, the WaPo has an order of magnitude better sources in the Republican party than anyone posting here at Kiwiblog. I can’t see how anyone here at Kiwiblog can assert this story is fake. So for Kiwibloggers to call it fake looks like a denial mechanism more than anything else.
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:46pm
Fletch

You would have thought everyone would have appreciated Trump’s speech in Poland about the West defending its values, but no. The lefties are calling it “white nationalism” *sigh*.

Tucker talks about it at the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L14X8wFxY5Y
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July 11, 2017 3:35pm
skyblue

Mr 5% has stopped me commenting on his FB page. What a cowardly custard. At least he has something in common with Cam Slater. Banned from WO as well.
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July 11, 2017 7:28pm
cha

When you’ve lost Drude……

http://drudgereport.com/
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July 11, 2017 7:41pm
RF

FFS get it right.

5.9 quake between Bluff and Stewart Island turned into a 5 near Blenheim and then travelled south below Stewart Island to the Snares Island and jumped to a 6.8 and now reported as a 6.4.

Mickey mouse outfit
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July 11, 2017 7:53pm
renderer

One of lifes unfortunates does not show any enthusiasm for pay her legally due rates, but manages to bludge near on $5000 for a trip to the Hague (still bludging for money to feed herself)
She considers it her God given right to represent us all, and posts the following shit:

“It’s 12.30pm in The Hague & I have a LOT of ‘trouble-making’ / ‘whistle-blowing’ to do ”

Free speech is wasted on this clown!
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July 11, 2017 8:32pm
- nasska
  
  Wait until she gets back. We’ll get a detailed account of every moment of the wankfest free of charge on this very forum.
  
  It’s a pity that she doesn’t subscribe to the theory that what happens in The Hague stays in The Hague. 🙁
  
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  July 11, 2017 8:41pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Nasska:
    
    It’d be unfortunate for Penny if Auckland Council were to sell Bright Manor (for market value) while she was away. I understood that the rates postponement application didn’t end up going anywhere.
    
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    July 11, 2017 8:44pm
    - nasska
      
      I suspect that the incompetents at the Council were hoping that she would apply for deferment as it would have been a face saving measure for them.
      
      But I’ll gain a lot of satisfaction if Waterwoman manages to claim martyrdom from a sale. If the arseholes had had the guts they would have thrown her & her junk onto the street last year.
      
      They’ve gifted her the free publicity she craves.
      
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      July 11, 2017 8:53pm

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