General Debate 9 May 2017

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krazykiwi

Just learned Mrs kk and I are to become grandparents later in the year. So excited!

Looking at the ultrasound pic, it’s hard not to see the growth of a tiny human as a miracle.

Any grandparents want to share tips? We’re new to this stuff
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May 9, 2017 8:00am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Margret Thatcher had an interesting turn of phrase to describe such a happy position in life which is best avoided.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:03am
- Dafixeruppa
  
  Congrats KK
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:04am
- RalphT
  
  Congrats kk; Mrs T and I will be doing the same in about four months. Yes, the ultrasound is a wonderful invention, where you can see a little hand forming and get a sense of what is happening. As a first-timer I can’t offer any tips, but will watch with interest those made by more experienced grandparents. I will of course put more weight on some than others; advice from Maggie will be listened to, that from Johnboy regarded with suspicion.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:07am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Children; greatest pleasures, greatest heartaches.
    
    There is no manual, there is no app, you do the best you can with what you have.
    
    I love watching the change in their understanding in the most simple of things that we no longer have a conscious thought about.
    
    Waving. It starts off with the holding up of a hand, progresses to the curling of the fingers to a fist and then becomes the open hand side to side that is the wave with the smile. Priceless.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:38am
  - krazykiwi
    
    RalphT, Congrats to you and Mrs T. A fun new phase of life.
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:28am
- jonno1
  
  Congrats kk. It’s simple really, love them to bits, spend every possible minute with them, sleepovers & shopping when they’re older, birthday dates etc. Support their mum & dad unreservedly.
  
  We had eight, lost one to an accident last year but would not exchange those five short years for anything.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:30am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Congratulations KK. It’ll be life-changing, I’m sure.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:01am
- Biscuit
  
  Ah, kk, I have no idea who you (or Mrs. kk) are and, likely, you and I have disagreed on various topics over the years, heh heh.
  
  (Whigh kan’t peepil jus accipt thuh fakt – az wif mi spelin – thatt I iz neva rong?)
  
  But many congrats!
  
  One thing I would suggest you get Mrs. kk to run by the parents-to-be. Volunteer to organise the grandkids’ scrapbook:
  
  Loads of things to put in.
  
  Begin even before the baby is born:
  
  Titbits about the parents
  The names the baby came so close to being called (Cinderella, eg? Rumpelstiltskin? PENNY! Heh heh)
  How the ‘being with child’ thingie was discovered
  The ultrasound printouts.
  And from the hospital, the parents-to-be will get all sorts of keepsakes – bracelets, baby hats, the name card from the baby’s crib. Keep ‘em all!
  Get a copy of the newspaper from the day the baby is born.
  Take prints of, or casts of, the baby’s hands and feet.
  Write down the birth story.
  
  You don’t want to forget anything about it.
  
  There’s so much that goes on from before labour begins until after the baby is home.
  
  It’s such a special and incredible event and, especially since this is going to be the first baby, you want to make sure it’s written about while it’s still all fresh in all of your minds.
  
  Best wishes to you, Mrs kk, the parents to be and, especially, to the littlie him/herself!
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:03am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Thanks Biscuit. Good ideas there. re names… there are a few I’ll be praying don’t resonate with the soon-to-be parents. We’re probably safe with ztev and yoza, but Penny could be a problem!
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:26am
    - Biscuit
      
      Ztev would be a worry.
      
      How to PRONOUNCE it?
      
      Zee-tev? Zed-tev? Or maybe Chinese-style and Zte-v?
      
      Really, really switched on parents/grandparents would give serious consideration to calling their wee horror oops little treasure:
      
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      Biscuit
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:07am
    - 4077th
      
      In Homer’s Odyssey, Penelope (/pəˈnɛləpiː/ pə-nel-ə-pee; Greek: Πηνελόπεια, Pēnelópeia, or Πηνελόπη, Pēnelópē) is the wife of Odysseus, who is known for her fidelity to Odysseus while he was absent, despite having many suitors.
      
      Her name has traditionally been associated with marital fidelity and so it was with the Greeks and Romans, but some recent feminist readings offer a more ambiguous interpretation. Her character is beyond what was available to most women at the time, and she is considered a match for Odysseus due to her immense strength, warmth and intelligence.
      
      The name is not just reserved for cloth eared, vacuous, rates dodging shit stirrers. I know at least 1 Penny and I love her to bits! Rant over..carry on..
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:31am
      - BassilFawlty
        
        Did you wake up on a soap box today?
        
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        May 9, 2017 12:52pm
      - 4077th
        
        Yes? Bassil? There is room only for me atop this particular box.
        
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        May 9, 2017 3:04pm
- artemisia
  
  Not wanting to downplay the pleasures of grandparenting, but there is a fab opportunity to begin the process of financial literacy for the babies, and maybe a bit will rub off on the parents as well.
  
  Maybe start a Kiwisaver or non-KS fund for them and tip in some dollars either regularly or, say, on birthdays. Or some shares. Whatever, something that will be there and hopefully growing when they begin to take an interest.
  
  Children these days have a superfluity of toys and clothes – at least for a few years they won’t notice or care it is from the $2 shop, and that other $20 or more can quietly be invested for them.
  
  (We’ve used Fisher Funds who have regular, colourful newsletters. Mostly they go into the recycling, but we are ever hopeful ….)
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:05am
- calendar girl
  
  Well done to you and Mrs kk. Remember, it’s all inherited through the grandparents – future vices as well as virtues!
  
  Grandparents I know who don’t live really close to their grandkids swear by what they call the ‘magical gifts’ of Skype and FaceTime.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:16am
- krazykiwi
  
  I note the Birth/Death/Marriage serial downticker has been active again today 🙂
  
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  May 9, 2017 12:23pm
  - Biscuit
    
    I wondered about that, krazykiwi.
    
    Sheesh there are some sad types out there in Kiwiblogland…
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:58pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  Damn my greasy fingers, pressed report instead of reply!
  
  Welcome to the world of grand parenting KK. There’s really nothing quite like it.
  
  My advice is as follows… whatever your kids instructions are when looking after your moko, smile and nod, and do what you would do any way ?.
  
  And remember, it is your DUTY to help plan any rebellion against their parents!
  
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  May 9, 2017 1:48pm
- Jinky
  
  I agree with jonno and biscuit. We have 3 grandkids and the oldest comes to ours every weekend. Plans to buy the house next door when he’s older! Just be there as much as you can and provide the stability that sometimes their parents can’t/don’t. As I tell them often “if we’d known how much fun grandkids are we’d have had them first”
  
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  May 9, 2017 4:16pm
- namron
  
  A great occasion and I’m sure you’ll rise to the “occasion” and be a valuable and stable background influence.
  
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  May 9, 2017 4:28pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  Congratulations Mr and Mrs KK.
  Being a grandparent is great fun, but my advice would be to ensure that your kids follow the “You breed ’em, You feed’em” rule. Your job is to spoil and guide.
  
  There are far too many grandparents in NZ denied their wonderful grandparent role by having to raise their grandchildren and spending their life savings fighting for the cause.
  
  That said, there are many days when my fabulous grandchildren are all that keep me above ground.
  Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
  
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  May 9, 2017 7:16pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  Important advice to expectant parents/grandparents: steer clear of soft toys. The room full of teddys, bunnies, giraffes etc may look like a great ‘nest’ to bring baby into but when the child arrives and practicality is called for they are a damned dust-gathering nuisance.
  Child will pick one or two favourites and in three years the rest will be stuffed in the wardrobe and in five years they’ll all be at the dump because you need the room and can’t even give them away.
  Keep those clucky women away from the cute soft toys and the proud daddy to be away from the panda that’s bigger than Texas. Trust me on this.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:37pm
- krazykiwi
  
  My thanks to everyone for the tips. Mrs KK and I are really looking forward to the adventure. This is grandchild v1.0 … I expect there’ll be more grandchildren to experiment on (lol) over the next few years.
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:47pm
Paulus Gnome

Alan Duff writes a well-considered piece (imo), worth three minutes in your day.

‘Grow up with no one reading a story to you may not seem like a disadvantage. But it is: very much so.’

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11851563
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May 9, 2017 8:01am
- artemisia
  
  Unfortunately any such programme / prison will be captured by those with a vested interest – such as funding for the reo and tikanga and teachers thereof, instilling cultural aspects at odds with the real world out there, assuming that being Maori is the only way to redemption.
  
  Did I mention funding?
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:10am
Captain Mainwaring

Kelvin Davis has a brain explosion.
Yes, he wants Maori-only prisons, where Maori inmates can be managed according to ‘Maori values’.
While he’s at it, why doesn’t he push for Maori Courts, Maori Police, and Maori crimes?
What about a Maori homeland?
What a plonker, wonder if he discussed this ludicrous idea with Angry before he burst into the media?
Keep it up Labour, you’re doing a brilliant job of alienating middle New Zealand even further.
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May 9, 2017 8:01am
- peterwn
  
  Maori only prisons – that is easy, just build a Pakeha only prison.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:03am
  - Inandout
    
    Maoris have already got their own prisons, as they make up most of the inmates.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:05am
    - peterwn
      
      Precisely what I meant.
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:26am
- Inandout
  
  Perhaps Maori funding themselves; now that would enable the government to give us major tax cuts.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:04am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Kelvin Davis is a politician first and foremost. Labour decided to take the Maori candidates standing for Maori seats of the list. Davis is against Hone and he wants to win.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:13am
- kowtow
  
  Maori values?
  
  Hey it’s not Labour alone pushing the Waitangi barrow.
  
  You can’t get a gummint job unless you subscribe to the so called and undefined principles of the treaty .
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:34am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  My goodness!
  Next he’ll be pushing for a separate Maori language.
  Separate signage. Separate labeling on foodstuffs.
  Separate schools. Separate government departments.
  (Think of all the monitoring and regulating jobs this will create!)
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:34am
  - Lance
    
    Ummm…
    Apartheid is good if Maoris want it????
    
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    May 9, 2017 11:18am
- rightoverlabour
  
  Hope this becomes a central plank of Labour policy. Along with Consent for Sex.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:51am
- Keeping Stock
  
  There are already Maori Focus Units at several of the larger prisons in New Zealand. So how effective have they been in reducing reoffending after inmates have been immersed in their culture?
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:03am
- 4077th
  
  One could argue that the reason they are in the clink in the first place is because of the “Maori Values” they are so fond of..
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:35am
G152

But but but its the CHOSEN People syndrome.
Any-one else make those claims Davis would be all over them claiming apartheid…
Even the lunkhead he replaced had more brains
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May 9, 2017 8:05am
Southern Raider

Herald rolling out the sensationalist headlines again

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11851641

Makes it sound like National will be sending kids to school on their fourth birthday. You need to read halfway through the article to discover the truth that it’s just giving parents the option to send their kids to school a few weeks earlier
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May 9, 2017 8:06am
- RalphT
  
  Never let the facts spoil the opportunity of having a go at the government.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:27am
duggledog

I thought prisons were already pretty much a Maori institution?
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May 9, 2017 8:06am
- Happychappy
  
  Can anyone tell me how in a few years they will be able to distinguish who’s Maori and who is not as the cost of tests to prove they are or not won’t come cheap. My two grand children have very little Maori in them as their father is Maori, Pacific Islander and Pakeha so this will just end up costing lots of money with very little gain.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:25am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Maori; costing money with very little gain, quelle suprise!
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:42am
  - starboard
    
    Don’t you remember, ” You are murri if you ‘feel’ murri “.
    
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    May 9, 2017 2:30pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Did anyone hear the Andrew Little interview on Charter Schools this morning on RNZ?
What a fiasco.
Will Willy Jackson toe the Party line /Paddle the Party waka?
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May 9, 2017 8:10am
- VicParking
  
  The whole hour was a comedy show. Little was a joke repeating his mantra over and over again and refused to answer the question “will labour close charter schools” at least 10 times.
  Winston saying Statistics NZ 2016 statistics are wrong and his from 1991 are correct. When asked why he did nothing about it when he was the Minister in charge be abused the interviewer.
  IWI in northland saying they have not been kept in the loop re the Rust only to be told their staff have been informed, they have just not passed the info to their bosses.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:48am
  - alwyn
    
    I thought that both interviews were absolutely hilarious. John Clarke would have been jealous of the pair of them.
    I think an unbeatable tactic for National during the election campaign would be to repeat these interviews with Andy and Winston, in all their drooling idiocy, and then finish with.
    “Can anyone really consider that these two are capable of forming a Government?”
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:38pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s the interview.
  http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/330371/labour-committed-to-anti-charter-school-policy-little
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:30am
  - 4077th
    
    What a pickle he has landed himself in. Watching him squirm was the highlight of the interview. I think he will live to regret the accommodation of Willy Jackoff…if he is not already.
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:19pm
duggledog

Maori Values are part of the reason so many Maori are in prison in the first place.

Violence is instilled into them from birth

They are often brought up by Nana or Aunty without proper role models, as is the Maori way.

They bring each other down if one of their number has ideas above their station.

Their tribal structure dictates their position in it, not talent.

They have shared land which is hardly ever used to its full potential as why would you develop a property on behalf of everyone else?

Maori culture is a very cool thing but unfortunately within that culture are the reasons Maori as a whole will always suffer high incarceration rates and other bad indicators
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May 9, 2017 8:13am
- mikenmild
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you have any evidence that ‘Maori culture’ is inherently more violent than any other culture?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:15am
  - sooty
    
    Statisics!
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:22am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Game-set-match
      
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      May 9, 2017 9:14am
    - stephieboy
      
      “99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.”
      
      ― Ron DeLegge
      
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      May 9, 2017 9:21am
      - Ed Snack
        
        97% of all statistics are misrepresented and/or false !
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:49am
  - Longknives
    
    Crime Stats.
    End of Story Mikenmild..
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:25am
  - EAD
    
    Do you have any evidence that ‘Maori culture’ is inherently more violent than any other culture?
    
    They were cannibals before the Europeans civilised them. Even now, the shocking child abuse statistics show they haven’t lost their warrior gene.
    
    Heck, even that laughable “dance” the “haka” where grown men wear skirts, slap their thighs, stick their tongues out and make throat slitting gestures shows a stone age culture in desperate need of evolution.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:30am
    - stephieboy
      
      EAD, the Romans” civilsed” the Druids and Celts by banning their ritual practice of human sacrifice replacing it with feeding people to wild aninals and Gladitors fighting to the death for sport.
      
      Then the Brits developed the fine arts of hanging, drawing and quartering not abolished till 1809.. Not forgetting burning at the stake and other fine arts of execution and . torture .
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:55am
      - cmm
        
        stephieboy: What relevance is 1809 to 2017?
        
        Nobody really cares whether Poms tortured people and Maori made Bro Burgers in the 1800s.
        
        What people care about is what they do in 2017 and beyond.
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:49am
  - kowtow
    
    The haka ?
    
    Poi are said to be to strengthen wimmins’ wrists so they could kill prisoners (who weren’t enslaved) while presumably the boys were cooking up the ones already killed.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:31am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    A culture is what a culture does.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:36am
    - stephieboy
      
      Odakyu-sen ,like the Germans did to the Jews and Roma Gypsies WW II and Japanese the massacre and rape of Nanking etc ?
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:57am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        stephieboy,
        
        You raise a very good point and with it the opportunity for hope.
        Cultures can change. There is salvation.
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:46am
      - Jack5
        
        Odakyu-sen points out that cultures can change.
        
        Some cultures change extremely slowly, though. Like that of Stephiestan, where Christians are being imprisoned and murdered for alleged comments about Islam.
        
        Not a helluva lot of difference between the way Romans treated Christians 2000 years ago and the way Stephiestan treats Christians now.
        
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        May 9, 2017 10:00am
      - Kimbo
        
        @ Jack5
        
        Um, that is too simplistic. More some/much of Islamic culture has regressed in the second half of its existence compared to “the West”. For example, for much of the Dark and Middle Ages, it was, on balance, better to be a Jew under Islamic, rather than Christian rule.
        
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        May 9, 2017 10:02am
  - 4077th
    
    A visit to Mt Eden or Poremoremo correctional facilities would answer your question immediately.
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:54am
  - marcw
    
    Prison muster figures possibly? Or is this a red herring?
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:57am
  - starboard
    
    Police 10/7
    
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    May 9, 2017 2:32pm
- KevOB
  
  Yes, unfortunately. Maori are consistent with other Polynesian societies. I know of an incident where a village chief offended over an exchange rate difference of 5 cents had the offending party treated to a bash with a bush knife. Violence is endemic in the wishfully called Pacific.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:26am
  - stephieboy
    
    KevOB, can you convince us that it is absolutely historically not the case elsewhere ?
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:00am
    - KevOB
      
      In one Pacific country they called themselves the “Irishmen of the Pacific”. They knew their inherent tendencies well.
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:01pm
      - KevOB
        
        In one Pacific country they called themselves the “Irishmen of the Pacific”. They knew their inherent tendencies well.
        I lived there and see the same here. Not all racial groups have their propensity to bash women, children and anyone else of lesser status.
        
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        May 9, 2017 12:03pm
      - Kimbo
        
        They knew their inherent tendencies well.
        
        Inherent? Or maybe recently learned? As per the Anna Salmond op ed I posted below, did you factor in the possibility that those were developments brought by a combination of
        
        1. introduced alcohol?
        
        2. introduced child disciplinary practises taught by the Christian missionaries?
        
        My Samoan-Kiwi mate used to loathe hearing “spare the rod and spoil the child” a kid growing up in church, as that, along with a piss up by a rogue care giver meant the bash on a Friday or Saturday night…
        
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        May 9, 2017 12:05pm
- mikenmild
  
  So the answer is no, there is no objective evidence that particular cultures are more violent than others.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:53am
  - cmm
    
    Please don’t confuse the present tense and the past tense.
    
    Middle Ages Europe was a brutal place. Not so 2017 Europe.
    
    “there is no objective evidence that particular cultures were more violent than others.”. Agree
    
    “there is no objective evidence that particular cultures are more violent than others.” Disagree.
    
    You will not find videos of people in Europe being hanged, drawn and quartered on youtube. You will, however find plenty of other cultures having fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By_Od4TXKvg.
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:03am
  - Jack5
    
    Old Milky tries to define the argument so there can be no opposition. For example, “no objective evidence.” That is meaningless unless, Milky, you spell out exactly what your definition is of “objective evidence”. Skull numbers? Some sort of ancient surveys?
    
    Of course some cultures are or were more violent than others. Genghis Khan’s Mongolian culture was more violent than that of China, for example. The Teutonic knights were more violent than the Baltic peoples. The Taranaki Maori were more violent than the Moriori of the Chatham Islands.
    
    Maori were warriors, complete with slavery, cannabilism, and tribal warfare. Compared with, say the Tahitians, Maori culture was violent.
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:08am
    - Kimbo
      
      “Violence” towards those who are not “outsiders” was not an issue for pre-colonial Maori, or at least not according to the sources Dame Anna Salmond cites, which I’ve posted below. So the problem is not that traditional Maori culture as such is more violent.
      
      Nations have always warred against others, and I don’t know if the Mongol Hordes are much different from incinerating tens of thousands of kids in bombing raids on Hamburg, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And I know Islam considers the West cruel barbarians for the practice of millions abortion.
      
      But in the matter of Maori and crime, isn’t a major issue how those within the whanau are treated? Domestic violence and the troubles it breeds, in terms of defective kids who pass it on to the next generation is where crime begins.
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:15am
    - KevOB
      
      The inherent violence is through Polynesia. Where did Capt Cook meet his end?
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:06pm
    - Kimbo
      
      No. As per my post below, hostility toward outsiders is one thing, and nothing new to any culture. It is how those inside the group are treated that is more relevant to issues of breeding crime. So, yet again, I draw to your attention the article by Dame Anna Salmond, quoting primary sources that indicate Maori treatment of those within their group of care and relationship, especially children was outstanding.
      
      Need to find another cause than any alleged inherent factors…
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:13pm
      - cmm
        
        You have a key point: what is considered the “group”?
        
        Westerners tend to have larger groups, all the way up to nations. Hence we tend to see less tribal/village level conflict in the West and much more inter-national conflict.
        
        We’re talking generalities here, so glossing over the exceptions like tribal style soccer hooligans and the odd civil war.
        
        Maori didn’t have the concept of a “nation” (or there would only have been one signatory to the treaty), but instead have smaller bands with a lot of inter-band conflict and a culture of inter-band theft.
        
        Indeed the concept of “nation” is only needed to make yourself distinct from others. Since Maori were not interacting with others on a day to day basis there was to them-vs-us so there is no need for the concept of a nation.
        
        Fast forward to modern times and bring a lot of people into close proximity (as we do with modern cities) and those ideas of group don’t change. 50-100 people is one street. They don’t see the people in the next street over as “their group” hence they go tag, steal and cause mayhem in the next suburb or whatever.
        
        As for domestic violence and other poor outcomes… well that’s closely linked to welfare, single parent households and unwed families.
        
        About 80% of Maori women now give birth outside of marriage. That does not make for stable, committed families. Not at all surprising that leads to domestic violence.
        
        Does that bring us closer to an answer?
        
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        May 9, 2017 2:15pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Indeed the concept of “nation” is only needed to make yourself distinct from others. Since Maori were not interacting with others on a day to day basis there was to them-vs-us so there is no need for the concept of a nation.
        
        True, but Maori did have a very-developed sense of hospitality towards strangers and/or guests, once hostility was discounted as a possibility. I’m not trying to present a mythical idyllic people, but nonetheless even today in inter-personal encounters Polynesian culture still honours and privileges guests so that they “belong”, far more than Europeans. Their relationships between whanau, hapu and iwi – whether good or bad – were highly sophisticated for a stone-age people, and built upon concepts such as mana and utu (reciprocity, not just for bad done, but also for the obligations created by any kindnesses rendered by others).
        
        Which means your following argument:
        
        Fast forward to modern times and bring a lot of people into close proximity (as we do with modern cities) and those ideas of group don’t change. 50-100 people is one street. They don’t see the people in the next street over as “their group” hence they go tag, steal and cause mayhem in the next suburb or whatever.
        
        …is built on a false premise. Local is local, especially for traditional Polynesian culture. Also includes a stewardship/kaitiaki ethic that is also manifested in concerns for conservation. So no, the problem is not, I would suggest, in what Maori were before they encountered Europeans. So…
        
        As for domestic violence and other poor outcomes… well that’s closely linked to welfare, single parent households and unwed families.
        
        Does that bring us closer to an answer?
        
        No, those things were not an inevitable development for Maori. Also, in the 1890s Maori were in seemingly terminal decline well before “welfare”. So there was another event. We’ve discussed it before, and it doesn’t mean brown people are innocent angels with no capacity for personal and collective responsibility or capacity to adapt, or that white people are exploitative devils.
        
        Nonetheless, as with similar indigenous peoples who were made a minority in their own land by similar white settlers in countries such as Australia, Canada and the USA, and who now exhibit similar negative statistics in imprisonment, health, educational, life expectancy, alcoholism and drug abuse
        
        …Maori were impacted by…colonialism.
        
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        May 9, 2017 2:29pm
      - cmm
        
        Kimbo
        
        I would certainly agree that Maori struggling to fit into modern society would not be a problem if there had never been colonisation.
        
        That is a tautology. If colonisation had not come there would be no modern society for Maori to struggle to fit into.
        
        I’m not sure I understand the bit about Maori being in terminal decline in 1890. Maori are flourishing in post-colonial society (though admittedly they could be doing better). There are more Maori now, they live better and they have better opportunities than before. So clearly colonialism has helped them too.
        
        We can’t wind back the clock. The only direction that makes any sense is going forward.
        
        We have a choice:
        1) Maori change to fit better into modern society so that they can thrive more.
        2) Somehow get rid of this supposedly terrible colonialism. Not sure how you’d do that or how far you’d want to go. Revert to pre-colonial NZ (perhaps something like PNG)? That would be bad all round for everyone.
        3) Just throw it all in the “too hard” basket and bumble along with what we have.
        
        I can’t see (1) happening quickly. I can’t see (2) happening at all. so unless there are other ideas we get (3).
        
        Now don’t get me wrong: What we have is pretty bloody good (for everyone). But there is always potential to do a bit better.
        
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        May 9, 2017 5:00pm
      - Kimbo
        
        I would certainly agree that Maori struggling to fit into modern society would not be a problem if there had never been colonisation.
        
        That is a tautology. If colonisation had not come there would be no modern society for Maori to struggle to fit into.
        
        Sure. And let’s not forget the majority of Maori…flourish. A highly sophisticated stone-age people has made a dramatic transition to the modern world in much less time than Europeans. But the issue is the disproportionate subculture. That’s how this discussion started.
        
        I’m not sure I understand the bit about Maori being in terminal decline in 1890.
        
        Was giving context to effects of colonisation on Maori. At that stage, when Maori numbers had declined to about 40,000, there were some at that time saying the best that could be done was to “smooth the pillow for a dying race”. But to quote the late great NZ historian, Michael King, and as you imply, “the patient did not die, instead, he took up his bed and walked”. Which leads me to…
        
        We have a choice:
        1) Maori change to fit better into modern society so that they can thrive more.
        2) Somehow get rid of this supposedly terrible colonialism. Not sure how you’d do that or how far you’d want to go. Revert to pre-colonial NZ (perhaps something like PNG)? That would be bad all round for everyone.
        3) Just throw it all in the “too hard” basket and bumble along with what we have.
        
        you left out
        
        4), where possible, and as suggested by Kelvin Davis, space is given within the broader system to allow Maori-specific institutions to be set up to address disproportionate Maori problems with…Maori solutions. The penal and justice system as it stands is almost entirely European colonial in conception and implementation, and attempting to assimilate Maori into it has, by any measure, been a failure – other than to lock up dangerous and/or stupid people for a while. Bugger stupid debates about “racist policies” (as you well know, this is not apartheid South Africa!), pragmatically you know that if you keep on doing the same thing, you will not get a different result. So time for a change, along the lines of what Kelvin Davis has suggested for the Corrections Department. Seems to me more productive than a debate to the effect “Maori are violent because their past is violent”.
        
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        May 9, 2017 5:58pm
- Kimbo
  
  Maori Values are part of the reason so many Maori are in prison in the first place…Maori culture is a very cool thing but unfortunately within that culture are the reasons Maori as a whole will always suffer high incarceration rates and other bad indicators
  
  Nope. Or at least, as you may imply, there is a defective sub-culture that has developed within parts of Maori. But what you describe is not what Europeans encountered when they first arrived. Which raises the question, what changed? As per Dame Anna Salmond last year when she rebutted a previous Alan Duff op ed:
  
  Anne Salmond: Maori once were tender fathers
  
  8:30 AM Thursday May 26, 2016
  
  I agree with Alan Duff when he says, “Real men don’t beat up kids, or wives, or anyone else. Real men love.” I know that, as a child, he experienced domestic violence. I respect him as a writer and for his fantastic work with Books for Homes. I admire the passion with which he tackles the burning issue of child abuse among Maori and violence against women.
  
  At the same time, when he suggests this hateful violence is a legacy of a “simple” pre-European Maori culture, with its “screaming, eye-popping haka”, he is wrong. In saying that, I realise I run the risk of being flagellated as a bleeding-heart liberal, or worse, by some of the Herald’s readers.
  
  Rather than appealing to scholarly authority, then, let’s turn to the accounts written by European men who visited New Zealand in the very early days and saw with their own eyes how Maori family life was conducted.
  
  We can begin with the traveller John Savage, who wrote in 1807, “The children here appear to be treated with a great degree of parental affection. They are robust, lively, and possess, in general, pleasing countenances.”
  
  Samuel Marsden, the leading missionary who visited New Zealand for the first time in 1814 (and could never be accused of possessing a bleeding heart), noted: “I saw no quarrelling while I was there. They are kind to their women and children. I never observed either with a mark of violence upon them, nor did I ever see a child struck.”
  
  In 1824, Richard Cruise remarked: “In the manner of rearing children, and in the remarkable tenderness and solicitous care bestowed upon them by the parents, no partiality on account of sex was in any instance observed. The infant is no sooner weaned than a considerable part of its care devolves upon the father: it is taught to twine its arms round his neck, and in this posture it remains the whole day, asleep or awake.”
  
  As the artist Augustus Earle wrote in 1832: “They are kind and hospitable to strangers, and are excessively fond of their children. On a journey, it is more usual to see the father carrying his infant than the mother; and all the little offices of a nurse are performed by him with the tenderest care and good humour.”
  
  In 1839, the missionary Richard Taylor observed, “One of the finest traits I have noticed in the New Zealanders is that of parental love; the men appear chiefly to nurse their children, and are generally to be seen with one on their back covered up under their mats, the little things appear likewise sensible of their fathers’ love for they seem principally to cling to them.”
  
  I’ll end with this quote by the trader Joel Polack in 1840: “It is not uncommon to see young children of tender years, sitting next to their parents in the councils, apparently listening with the greatest attention … They ask questions, [and the chiefs] answer them with an air of respect, as if they were a corresponding age to themselves. I do not remember a request of an infant being treated with neglect, or a demand from one of them being slighted.”
  
  These quotes from early European visitors could be multiplied ad infinitum. According to their reports, Maori domestic life was generally harmonious, and the men were kind, loving and devoted to their children.
  
  At the same time in Britain, it must be noted, the violent chastisement of women and children was commonplace, in the law and in everyday life. Under the doctrine of “coverture”, women and children were legally the property of their husbands and fathers, who were entitled to use corporal punishment as a form of discipline.
  
  This accounts for the air of amazement, and sometimes disapproval, with which European men in the early 19th century described the lenient way in which Maori domestic life was conducted.
  
  In order to tackle domestic violence in 21st century New Zealand, it’s vital to identify accurately the most likely causes for our shameful record of abusing women and children. Unfortunately, the Once Were Warriors storyline which indicates that Maori domestic violence is an ancestral legacy is part of the problem, not the solution.
  
  It is wrong in fact, and it props up stereotypes that do a great deal of damage to Maori people and to our society.
  
  If you teach children for long enough that their ancestors were violent, abusive savages, after a while, they are likely to believe you. This in itself can be a cause for shame and self-loathing. When they become adults, they may use this myth as a convenient excuse to beat up women and children.
  
  Children like Moko (and maybe Alan Duff, as well) are the victims in all of this. Rather than condemning tikanga, it might be wiser to draw upon ancestral Maori ways of conducting family life for inspiration and healing. As Samuel Marsden wrote in 1820, “There can be no finer children than those of the New Zealanders in any part of the world. Their parents are very indulgent, and they appear always happy and playful and very active.”
  
  This is as true today as it was then in many Maori families. Instead of blaming Maori ethnicity or culture for New Zealand’s terrible record of domestic abuse, we need to look to poverty, alcohol, drugs, gang culture, prisons and other role models for brutal behaviour – in sport for instance – for the root causes of domestic violence in New Zealand, and tackle these at the source.
  
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11644786
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:40am
  - Jack5
    
    Some, even many, 19th century Maori who tolerated white visitors may well have been fine parents, but Salmond’s defence doesn’t fit a society in which there was tribal warfare, slavery, and cannibalism. How gentle were the Taranaki Maori in their genocide in the Chatham Islands and enslavement of the survivors?
    
    Perhaps the lot of Victorian women in Britain was no worse than that of women enslaved from a defeated tribe. At least, though, if they were fattened up, it wasn’t so they could be eaten.
    
    Salmond’s portrayal of 19th century Maori warriors as some sort of early home husbands does not fit with a people who traded human heads for guns and rum and who could be merciless towards occupants of conquered pa.
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:31am
    - Kimbo
      
      No, as per my post above, nearly all peoples and cultures have histories of violence and conflict with outsiders. But the real issue with breeding criminals is how people, especially kids within the group are treated. Salmond’s primary sources say that with traditional Maori it was outstanding. So current rates of imprisonment are not the result of traditional Maori violence – which as you listed, did exist. Instead something else has ocuurred that is the social cause(s)…
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:37am
      - cmm
        
        Kimbo, if we just go with the flow of your earlier post and accept that at face value then there is still quite a lot of material to work with.
        
        Sure, there isn’t a history of domestic violence, but that is different to societal violence.
        
        Families and small groups might have been very peaceful within themselves. These groupings were likely quite small (maybe 50 to 100 people) with conflict between those groups (competition for scarce resources, food, hunting grounds etc) being rife.
        
        Fast forward into the modern day and we see parallels: relative peace within the members of gangs etc and hostility between gangs. Relatively high property crime etc mirroring historic inter-band theft.
        
        So maybe what’s broken up the traditional family units? Well the welfare state surely has not helped.
        
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        May 9, 2017 1:43pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Fast forward into the modern day and we see parallels: relative peace within the members of gangs etc and hostility between gangs. Relatively high property crime etc mirroring historic inter-band theft.
        
        Nope. Violent domestic crime, particularly toward women and children is much higher among Maori than non-Maori. As is repeated here on Kiwiblog whenever a child, almost invariably Maori, is killed by a “care-giver”.
        
        So maybe what’s broken up the traditional family units? Well the welfare state surely has not helped.
        
        Urban drift out of economic necessity in the 1960s (as Maori economically had less choices after the wars of the 1860s, and paternalistic Pakeha-dominated decisions at the turn of the 20th Century targeted education for Maori to turn out manual labourers)…was where many of the social control and support structures broke down for Maori…and that was before the DPB was introduced.
        
        Was the era of one-size-fits-all assimilation, and as whitey was making the decisions to suit Mr Whitey (e.g., bureaucratic structures, education curriculum and teaching methods, health delivery methods), Maori were forced to try and fit into something that was in the first instance alien. Doesn’t mean Maori are victims, and didn’t have to adapt – in the main most did – but some fell between the cracks into a feral subculture, and took subsequent generations with them.
        
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        May 9, 2017 2:48pm
  - KevOB
    
    Children sitting in “Councils” would be those of a ranking Chief. Any other kid would not dare knowing the consequences. Parents may love their children but Chiefs fed first and children last. Love and brutality can strangely co-exist.
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:12pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Just as a starving kid would be hanged for stealing an apple in 18th Century Georgian Britain. Don’t know where you are going with your anecdotes when brutality is common to all cultures, and, on balance, despite practices such as cannibalism, traditional Polynesians seemed no more inherently violent than any other. Which means there is another cause for high Maori imprisonment rates…
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:34pm
    - cmm
      
      “Chiefs fed first and children last.”
      
      Such deference to authority is likely to make for a more ordered society with less crime etc than the other way around.
      
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      May 9, 2017 2:40pm
- Northland Wahine
  
  Question…50 plus years ago did you consider Maori more or less violent then they are now. If moreviolent now, what’s changed?
  
  More unemployment? More urbanisation? More benefit entitlements. More mixed ethnicities. More pakeha blood?
  
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  May 9, 2017 2:02pm
  - cmm
    
    Welfare.
    
    Welfare has broken down family support structures which are the foundations of a good society.
    
    It can’t be a good thing that 80% of Maori women have kids out of wedlock. That breaks down the benefits of having strong male role models etc.
    
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    May 9, 2017 2:25pm
  - RF
    
    Northern Wahine. I believe Maori are more violent owing to a number of factors…. hard drugs, modern vehicles, modern communications, technology, making good money through illegal activities gives them the advantage over less violent opposition.
    
    Gangs are more mobile and can use modern technology to assemble in a given location at a certain time.
    
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    May 9, 2017 6:35pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Maori are less violent these days, at least the savages aren’t eating each other. How long ago was cannibalism? Thank God for the white man.
    
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    May 9, 2017 6:39pm
  - Jack5
    
    Northland Wahine asks whether “more pakeha blood” may be a factor if current-day Maori are more violent than Maori in the past.
    
    This brings to mind that Hone Harawira’s pakeha heritage is of the Hatfields. One account said “Hatfield” was Hone’s original surname.
    
    In America, the Hatfields and the McCoys fought out one of the great family feuds of history.
    
    If the Harawiras are a wild bunch, could it be Hatfield genes?
    
    The famous feud:
    
    http://www.history.com/shows/hatfields-and-mccoys/articles/the-hatfield-mccoy-feud
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:43pm
    - cha
      
      Hadfield, actually.
      /
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:58pm
      - Jack5
        
        Cha, I’m not challenging your assertion, but the link below has the NBR reporting that Ngapuhi elder David Rankin, described as a relative of Harawira, said on TV that Harawira’s original surname was Hatfield.
        
        The second link is to a question-and-answer session where Harawira denies “Hatfield” was ever his name.
        
        His father, John Puriri Harawira, was part-pakeha. Perhaps that’s where any Hatfield link comes from.
        
        It may be unfair to blame any remote link that exists with the famous feuding Hatfields for the Harawira clan’s behaviour.
        
        According to a 10 February 2013 NZ Herald report, in 1988, Hone Harawira’s mother, Titewhai, with her daughter Hiniwhare, son Arthur, and two others were found guilty of beating a Carrington Hospital patient. At the time Harawira was head of the Whare Paia Maori health unit. The jury also found Harawira guilty of a charge of threatening to kill. She was jailed for nine months.
        
        https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/harawira-scolded-ngapuhi-elder-127449
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/aucklander/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503378&objectid=11047272
        
        NZ Herald report about Mrs Harawira:
        
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864470
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:54pm
      - cha
        
        My only first hand knowledge is a relation up north who reckons he was a Hadfield and his mother was an awful woman.
        
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        May 9, 2017 10:08pm
oldpark

Not so long ago when the ruling by the court to turn down the Basin Reserve Flyover,that would surely have solved the traffic gridlock in the MT Victoria tunnel and beyond, a guy or clown called Grant Robertson,who is the local MP from the Lie-bour/Green joined at the hip parties,went happy clappy,that it was a great decision. Last night i heard the same clown,on the Larry Williams show deny, that under Labour, property prices doubled,and even blatantly ignored the truth that interest rates were also double under Labour. To think that his joined at the hip Lie-bour /Green Parties are so out of touch with realism,and the real world,that any answer or lies will be fine,as long as they can fool the voters,and get them back on the treasury benches.
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May 9, 2017 8:14am
- itstricky
  
  That comment was like a poem. Seriously. Did you do that on purpose?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:22am
  - mikenmild
    
    Stream of consciousness, to the extent oldpark could be considered conscious.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:54am
- KevOB
  
  Hopefully GR never gets anywhere the Treasury Benches.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:28am
  - howitis
    
    Baroness Thatcher used the housewife analogy to budgeting.
    
    Perhaps Granty can draw from his household and use the bus drivers approach to balancing the cash float at end of shift.
    
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    May 9, 2017 11:55am
- peterwn
  
  Of course Grant was ‘happy’ at the decision – he relies on the Aro Valley Greens to retain his Wellington Central seat. If the Greenies voted their own candidate, then National would have won the seat.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:29am
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Quite so peterwn. And let’s not forget that Robertson was so focused on winning Wellington Central last time around that Labour came THIRD in the party vote in Wellington Central; behind National and the Greens.
    
    Robertson is not a team player, and he is going to face a far tougher campaign this time around from Nicola Willis. No doubt ztev will be along right away to dispute that, which in itself will prove my point. Robertson’s Labour lackies are having to demonise Willis at every turn because she is already eating into Robertson’s majority.
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:08am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Larry Williams is the alternative to sycophantic creepy Campbell; I even tolerate the ads rather than listen to Campbell.
  
  Great segment with Jim Moira yesterday where his two guests, Stephen Franks and whiney pom from Christchurch Gary McCormick
  
  http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/201843058/panel-says
  
  Stephen Franks methodically, patiently and firmly rips McCormick a new one every time he opens his mouth with a cliche about ‘the poor’, the starving’, the ‘capitalist’ ad nauseam.
  
  A good listen if one likes to hear the wankery of the left thinking being debunked with clear logical facts and argument
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:53am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Paulus Gnome , Gary Mc Cormack was born in NZ . Who cares about your tedious whinge binge rants about Red Radio or whatever ?
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:04am
    - thedavincimode
      
      Who cares about your tedious whinge binge rants about … or whatever ?
      
      Enter Captain Hypocrite, stage left …
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:04am
    - Jack5
      
      Who cares about the tedious, predictable, “whinge binge” of the Stephiestani troll team?
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:10am
  - Kimbo
    
    @ Paulus Gnome
    
    Stephen Franks methodically, patiently and firmly rips McCormick a new one every time he opens his mouth…
    
    Good use of adverbs, btw. Necessary and in no way excessive to achieve the nuance and precision you were seeking…
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:24am
redeye

If Le Pen, with socialist & protectionist policies is called far-right because of her anti immigration stance, what does that make Andrew Little?
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May 9, 2017 8:14am
- kowtow
  
  What does that make the MSM who constantly describe her as far right?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:35am
  - stephieboy
    
    kowtow, how would you describe her ? Northern Ireland Ultra Protestant Lloyalist ?
    
    LOL !
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:07am
    - Jack5
      
      For fuck’s sake, Stephie X, get a grip on English grammar. There is no space between the end of the sentence and its full stop, or question mark, or exclamation mark.
      
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      May 9, 2017 10:11am
      - Left Right and Centre
        
        KB grammar – always put a gap between the last word and a question mark – like this ?
        
        One of those quirky little KB characteristics.
        
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        May 9, 2017 10:38pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  A socialist with an anti-immigration stance = not a communist (as communists are globalists). Therefore, said socialist must be “far right wing.”
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:38am
- stephieboy
  
  redeye , forward thinking and progressive by comparsion to Marine Le Pens idiotic loopy economic policies .
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:05am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    There’s those infuriating gaps again.
    Fuckwit of the first order.
    
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    May 9, 2017 10:32am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Hard to duplicate though lol.
      
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      May 9, 2017 7:50pm
Stars And Stripes

Outrage over Canadian ‘Haka’ energy drink
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201843066/outrage-over-canadian-'haka'-energy-drink-using-moko-design.
“A group of New Zealanders in Canada is furious that an energy drink is being sold under the name Haka with branding similar to Māori moko design.
I live a long way away from home and I’m Māori, I’m a New Zealander, I’m a Kiwi, I have a lot of pride in that culture and to see this, I was genuinely offended.”

More offence and outrage this time over a drink can.
Maybe you are too sensitive to be overseas and should come home where the koha is more freely distributed.
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May 9, 2017 8:15am
- itstricky
  
  Does reposting it here count as being outraged over outrage?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:24am
  - Stars And Stripes
    
    Maybe time to try a different rebuttal line itstricky as that one is getting a bit worn now.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:47am
    - itstricky
      
      Ok, how about:
      
      One rule for you and a different one for me.
      
      ?
      
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      May 9, 2017 11:09am
- Longknives
  
  Picture a Scotsman wearing a kilt jumping up and down and protesting at the Supermarket because it is selling ‘Highlander’ Condensed Milk..
  That would be pretty silly huh??
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:34am
- VicParking
  
  Stay in Canada please.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:52am
- krazykiwi
  
  A group of New Zealanders in Canada…
  
  It’s revenge for the 2009 incident where a Canadian tourist in New Zealand complained that Pascall’s Eskimo lollies were ‘racist’.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:58am
- cmm
  
  Yet the “Bros” have no problem at all appropriating American gang culture, rapping, saggy pants,…
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:06am
  - sam green
    
    Yes but they’re not making money off it.
    
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    May 9, 2017 4:12pm
duggledog

Mikenmild

Do you know any Maoris?
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May 9, 2017 8:17am
- mikenmild
  
  Why do you ask?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:28am
  - starboard
    
    Rich, coming from the chief asker of inane questions, 29313 to be precise.
    
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    May 9, 2017 2:41pm
    - dad4justice
      
      I do wonder if WINZ will give mouldymike an extra food grant when the nutbar reaches 30,000 comments of crap?
      
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      May 9, 2017 2:50pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  No s, Maori singular and plural I believe.
  
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  May 9, 2017 12:45pm
Rodney Randall

https://helenaglass.net/2017/02/03/frances-emmanuel-macron-groomed-by-rothschilds/

The Rothschild’s groomed President.

“This my friends, is how a President is made.”
Rothschilds/Soros child

Delingpole on Macron

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/www.breitbart.com/london/2017/04/24/delingpole-manchurian-candidate-macron-frances-obama/amp/
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May 9, 2017 8:19am
- stephieboy
  
  Rodney Randall, Delingpole a desperate sore loser now playing the racist anti semitic card ?
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:10am
  - Rodney Randall
    
    Hi Stephie. Thanks for your reply.
    
    I didn’t get that impression. Both articles, for me, illuminate the machinations of the French deep state.
    
    The unelected technocrats at the EU want to keep the ‘dream’ alive at all costs.
    
    It makes perfect sense to get behind someone who shares the beliefs/goals.
    
    Pretty simple.
    
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    May 9, 2017 1:12pm
peterwn

Interesting manslaughter case. Person in charge of boat pleaded guilty to manslaughter – prosecution claimed gross negligence for not ensuring that people in boat were wearing lifejackets when crossing a river bar. Seems accused pleaded guilty assuming wet bus ticket to save bother and expense of defending himself. If he had pleaded not guilty but convicted he would have been exposed to a stiffer sentence. He is disputing facts prior to conviction and sentencing no doubt to keep things ‘in play’ despite a guilty plea. The Judge is finding the matter troubling as the judge no doubt would like to have heard legal arguments on whether failure to ensure people wear lifejackets was a ‘gross negligence’ matter justifying a manslaughter conviction. But then that would be a matter for a jury.
Another aspect – the ‘three strikes’ law. If convicted the Judge is obliged to read him a ‘first strike’ but the ‘three strikes law’ was intended for ‘serious violent offending’ – for the worst criminals (see David Garrett’s third reading speech), so David and co overlooked that manslaughter was a broad spectrum crime covering circumstances from serious negligence to those just short of murder – the ‘three strikes’ legislation should have allowed a judge not to award a ‘strike’ if the crime was at the less serious end (eg this case or an offender who pinches a female’s bottom). Perhaps the judge may be more inclined to ‘discharge without conviction’ to help avoid having to award a ‘strike’ in this case.
Incidentally the ‘three strikes’ law is intended for ‘serious violent offending’ the term is merely a tag – manslaughter is deemed to be ‘serious violent offending’ even if no violence was involved. So perhaps if there is no violence involved a judge should not enter a manslaughter conviction.
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May 9, 2017 8:22am
- KevOB
  
  Thankfully our judges do seek just outcomes.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:31am
  - KevOB
    
    I wouldn’t swap one of our Judges for a dozen in some other jurisdictions. Occasionally we see something that may look perverse but not being in Court it can be hard to tell the reason for the outcome. Anything too strange can be appealed. Our judges are diligent in seeking fair and just outcomes. Don’t let a very rare lapse spoil their general excellence.
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:21pm
- MT_Tinman
  
  If the offender simply made the one mistake the strike will have no effect at all. It will simply sit there unloved and unused.
  
  If it’s a serial offender it (the strike) is doing it’s job, making the offender aware that his next serious conviction will result in serious punishment.
  
  I’d suggest Mr Garrett and co. got it just about right.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:48am
  - cmm
    
    Correct. Most of us will manage to get all the way through our lives with no convictions at all (strike or non-strike).
    
    If you’re needing to look at the fine print on strike vs non-strike then you’re not exactly the sort of person we need in society.
    
    I expect there are some crims who keep offending but modify their offending based on the strikes (eg. switch from robbery to burglary).
    
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    May 9, 2017 1:27pm
- cmm
  
  Manslaughter does not need violence. It can be for gross negligence.
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:09am
  - peterwn
    
    That is why I maintain that manslaughter without violence should not attract a ‘strike’.
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:48pm
    - cmm
      
      Why not?
      
      Most people seem to manage to get all the way though their lives with zero strikes.
      
      What sort of person needs three strikes anyway? If a person loses a strike and are now down to two strikes, so what?
      
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      May 9, 2017 1:22pm
      - peterwn
        
        Because the ‘three strikes’ legislation is intended for the worst violent criminals – right from the horse’s mouth – David Garrett said so during the third reading. If the offender did not commit a violent crime he should not get a strike. Otherwise it goes against the purpose of the legislation.
        
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        May 9, 2017 4:22pm
Paulus

Thank goodness for some light amusement.
Currently Colin Craig is suing Cameron Slater (WhaleOil) in the High Court for making defamatory statements on WO’s blog.
Conversely Cameron Slater is counter suing for some $16,000,000, because I assume he thinks he is worth it.
Amusing because it is fun to watch two prize twits throwing shit at each other. Both are very strange individuals so makes it more fun.
The only winners will be the Lawyers whatever, but we the Taxpayer have to stand the Court costs for a three week trial anyway.
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May 9, 2017 8:23am
- mikenmild
  
  I don’t know how much it costs us taxpayers to run such a trial, but does any part of a costs award go towards that, or is that just to cover the winning party’s costs?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:30am
  - peterwn
    
    The unsuccessful party has to pay I think a cost per half day of hearing, but this covers a portion of running costs – the long suffering taxpayer has to bear the cost of the rest.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:51am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Court fees are added to the costs that a successful party receives after a trial.
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:53am
  - holysheet
    
    What, is there something you don’t know Milky?
    Surely not!
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:16am
- Sponge
  
  $16m? Hahaha!
  
  7 1
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  May 9, 2017 8:48am
  - peterwn
    
    Like a Tony Hancock show. Tony swallowed a plastic toy with his cornflakes and sued the company. ‘How do you justify the amount of damages you are seeking’ asked the Judge – ‘They can afford it’ replied Tony.
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:01am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      The blood donor ?
      
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      May 9, 2017 9:59am
      - peterwn
        
        I don’t think so. In ‘the blood donor’ episode Tony cut his hand and lost blood. He got back his own blood. I wonder if the episode was produced for ‘Blood Donor Week’ or similar at the time.
        
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        May 9, 2017 12:51pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Craig has to front up with daily hearing fees of $3200.00 for the period of the trial.
  So a week in court will cost him in those fees alone $16,000.00.
  No wonder Craig is representing himself, although he does have a McKenzie friend which will cost a bit.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:51am
  - peterwn
    
    As Cam is counter suing presuming both are having to contribute to hearing costs.
    
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    May 9, 2017 4:24pm
- peterwn
  
  Colin Craig does not have a lawyer at the trial so that is one less lawyer making money out of this. If Cam did not have a lawyer it would have descended into a farce. Colin is being cross examined by Cam’s lawyer today and tomorrow apparently – that should be interesting.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:56am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Mr Craig has a McKenzie Friend who just happens to be a lawyer.
    Cam has Brian Henry acting for him, who co-incidentally is Winston Peters usual lawyer of choice.
    The other comment I would make is the Judge hearing the case is Justice Toogood who did quite a bit of defamation work before he went to the bench.
    
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    May 9, 2017 11:16am
- VicParking
  
  How you can uptick this is beyound me. First Paulus has no understanding of the court process and secondly, although I have no time for both litigants, to abuse them like he does just shows his ignorance of the case. The twit here is Paulus
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:59am
- KevOB
  
  A review of the Court system could be in order.
  
  Why should the State suffer the cost of two strong personalities battling it out? If the State does not accept the role of providing a forum how could a commercial one take it’s place and who would be the enforcers? Craig v Cam is not a commercial case and arbitration does not apply. Courts can refuse to hear frivolous or abusive matters but seem reluctant to do so. There is always some legal issue that can be raised.
  
  The Courts can be misused and that is almost a sport at the appellate levels. Commercial cases where the parties are not fairly resource balanced could be heard from the outset by a panel of 3 judges without any appeal rights on any matter whatsoever or related to the case including law.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:01am
  - peterwn
    
    Cam wanted this case like he wanted a hole in the head. If Colin had not gone to court and had not published his stupid tract it is very unlikely Cam would have gone to court.
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:55pm
peterwn

The saga of the Mayor of Horowhenua continues. Local Government Act allows a Mayor to choose his/her deputy, but a Council can remove a deputy and install one of its choice (the Act would be open to other interpretations). Council did just that and the CEO has accepts Council’s choice of deputy mayor – it is the CEO who was to remunerate the deputy mayor.
Seems for various reasons the Mayor is off-side with the CEO such that the Council has had to ring-fence the Mayor. This is unusual since it is the Mayor who has dealings with the CEO on top level matters (including telling the CEO he is fired if it came to that). Possibly if the Council had not ring-fenced the Mayor, the CEO could have resigned then claimed constructive dismissal which could have cost the ratepayers a six figure handout.
There seems to be no mechanism for a Council to remove a Mayor who is continually at odds with a Council. If it were very bad then the Minister could appoint a commissioner who would vall fresh elections.
Seems people at large prefer to directly elect a Mayor despite there being problems in the odd case. The alternative – where the Council elects the Mayor does not seem to find favour.
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May 9, 2017 8:42am
peterwn

The saga of the Mayor of Horowhenua continues. Local Government Act allows a Mayor to choose his/her deputy, but a Council can remove a deputy and install one of its choice (the Act would be open to other interpretations). Council did just that and the CEO has accepts Council’s choice of deputy mayor – it is the CEO who was to remunerate the deputy mayor.
Seems for various reasons the Mayor is off-side with the CEO such that the Council has had to ring-fence the Mayor. This is unusual since it is the Mayor who has dealings with the CEO on top level matters (including telling the CEO he is fired if it came to that). Possibly if the Council had not ring-fenced the Mayor, the CEO could have resigned then claimed constructive dismissal which could have cost the ratepayers a six figure handout.
There seems to be no mechanism for a Council to remove a Mayor who is continually at odds with a Council. If it were very bad then the Minister could appoint a commissioner who would call fresh elections.
Seems people at large prefer to directly elect a Mayor despite there being problems in the odd case. The alternative – where the Council elects the Mayor does not seem to find favour.
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May 9, 2017 8:43am
- Inandout
  
  I think you will find a commissioner would take over the running of the council until the next elections, or until things have returned to normal. My sources tell me that there is fault on both sides, and a faction of the elected councillors are tied to the previous mayor. Certainly the councillors appear a toxic lot.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:02am
  - peterwn
    
    Seems the CEO has the support of the majority of councillors otherwise they would let him stew in his own juices.
    
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    May 9, 2017 1:09pm
artemisia

Noticed that the afternoon host on Radio NZ yesterday referred to Mr Campbell as JC. Freudian slip?
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May 9, 2017 8:56am
- Keeping Stock
  
  Reminds me of a story I heard a while ago ago.
  
  Andrew Little died and went to heaven, where he was met at the Pearly Gates by St Peter. As they were establishing Mr Little’s credentials, a convertible drove past carrying Winston Peters and a bevy of beautiful women. Peters was holding a tumble of the finest single malt in one hand and a cigar in the other, and looked as though he was having the time of his (after)life.
  
  Little managed to blurt out “Winston Peters! I didn’t know he was dead too.”
  
  St Peter replied “No, that’s not Winston; it’s God. He just thinks he’s Winston Peters”…
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:21am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Old joke – we used to tell that one about Muldoon !
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:54am
Stars And Stripes

Police investigation after video shows distressed toddler in underwear wandering near road
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11851789.
“Police are investigating after a video was posted to Facebook showing an upset toddler dressed only in underwear wandering near the road.
The young child is heard crying: “Mummy”.
It is not clear where or when the video was taken but it was posted on Facebook on Monday afternoon by a young mum who lives in Otara”.

Otara, Mangere, Mt Roskill.
These names just seem to keep popping up time and time again.
Just a coincidence I’m sure.
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May 9, 2017 9:08am
- stephieboy
  
  Stars and Stripes , most likely coincidence to a South Aucklander like you !
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:13am
- holysheet
  
  He was learning very early in life how to get to Hampton downs prison. Probably looking for his dad.
  
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  May 9, 2017 9:20am
- cmm
  
  There was another two weeks ago with the 3-year old found on a tricycle.
  
  The family only contacted the police two hours after the cops had picked him up.
  
  What sort of parents don’t know where their bubs are for TWO HOURS?
  
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  May 9, 2017 1:17pm
holysheet

Just received this email from some dork

Good day sir ,here is the copy of the transfer slip ,kindly find the attach copy and get back to me also please check with your bank to confirm the receipt of the payment .

There was an attachment as well

I thought our contact details here on KB were secure. Looks like one of the stooooopidboy clan has hacked into KB
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May 9, 2017 9:25am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  That bloody misuse of spaces and commas is even worse than stupidboy’s.
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:36am
dime

i keep reading in the US how black people want to get rid of whites (somehow not racist), how they should be seperate.

a bunch of maori want it here..

i thought we were meant to be multi cultural?

imagine if the races did get divided.. how long until there is a war?

cause we all know which “race” is the best at war 😀 😀 😀

and yes, i know, plenty of maori in the armed services, maori batallion and all that. but lets be honest, if the “evil” white man turned his attention from business and entrepreneurship and back to war, we all know who wins round 2 😛

thats my little gem for the day. now im off to meetings, being a natsy little white man while im at it!
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May 9, 2017 9:33am
Manolo

On the footsteps of Al Gore: another con-man in the making:
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/332328-obama-to-discuss-climate-change-in-italy
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May 9, 2017 10:08am
Liberty

Once again Labour intends to shaft Westcoast/Tasman
So where does the current labour member for the coast
Stand on this appalling proposal?
Is Damien going to cross the floor and support the coasters or is he going capitulate to the Greens.

https://www.facebook.com/Bruce-Smith-Westland-Mayor-feedback-375836549279751/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

https://www.facebook.com/Bruce-Smith-Westland-Mayor-feedback-375836549279751/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf
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May 9, 2017 10:24am
- Liberty
  
  Try this
  https://www.facebook.com/375836549279751/videos/604762499720487/
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:36am
Manolo

A difficult task ahead of him:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/08/macron-faces-challenges-as-tries-to-lead-polarized-france.html
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May 9, 2017 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  No worries, Mummy wife will give him good advice. Trouble is when she reaches 80 he will still be in his prime at 56.
  
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  May 9, 2017 11:41am
Inandout

‘Prison’ in Maori is ‘whare herehere’, so when they take over the jails it will be like; ‘Uncle Joe, where is my dad at the moment?” ‘Oh Hone, he is up the whare herehere’.
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May 9, 2017 11:37am
Jack5

Hugh Paveletich, have you caught up on this –

Not included in the IMF report on NZ in the Hooerald today:

Recognizing the steps being taken by the authorities to address the demand-supply imbalance in housing markets, [IMF] Directors generally highlighted that further tax measures related to housing could be considered to reduce incentives for leveraged real estate investments by households.

Such measures could help redirect savings to other, potentially more productive, investments and, thereby, support deeper capital markets.

Sounds like the IMF is recommending NZ introduce a stiffer capital gains tax.
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May 9, 2017 11:40am
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  Please don’t encourage him
  
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  May 9, 2017 2:07pm
Jack5

For those interested in what’s going on in China, an article on an economic reform …

At least $US543 billion has been wiped off the value of Chinese shares and bonds in the last two months as Beijing reins in “shadow banks”.

[Definition from Brookings: “Shadow banks are financial firms that perform similar functions and assume similar risks to banks. Being outside the formal banking sector generally means they lack a strong safety net, such as publicly guaranteed deposit insurance or lender of last resort facilities from central banks, and operate with a different, and usually lesser, level of regulatory oversight.”]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-07/china-deleveraging-bill-tops-500-billion-as-market-pain-spreads
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May 9, 2017 11:53am
Fletch

Facebook meme –

Know the difference –

Macarons –
* mostly air
* no nutritional value
* comes in whatever flavour the general public wants
*for rich people.

Macron –
* same but he’s the president of France.
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May 9, 2017 12:17pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Ha ha ha. Here it is.
  
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  May 9, 2017 12:29pm
Hugh Pavletich

Note additional comments re English media conference below … posted on MacroBusinmess Au article thread

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/05/links-9-may-2017/#comment-2865134

ANZ hikes five home loan rates from 18 mths to 5 years, pushing its longest offer well over 6%. It also raises some selected long term deposit rates, cuts two shorter ones | interest.co.nz

https://www.interest.co.nz/news/87576/anz-hikes-five-home-loan-rates-18-mths-5-years-pushing-its-longest-offer-well-over-6-it

Hard on the heals of a Kiwibank floating rate rise, ANZ has also shifted a number of fixed mortgages rates up too.

These hikes come just two days ahead of the next RBNZ OCR review which is widely expected to leave policy rates unchanged at 1.75%.

The ANZ rate hikes are basically for their standard rates.

But they also raised one of their ‘specials’ as well. Their two year is up +6 bps to 4.85%. That is now the highest two year rate in the market, higher than all their main rivals and as high as the Co-operative Bank offer for that term.

ANZ’s standard rate rises are for all rates of 18 months and longer…. read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Govt has been concerned for ‘some time’ about risks from rising mortgage rates as house price boom stretched borrower serviceability limits, PM says; ‘Borrowers go in with eyes open about risks; Fundamental issue is still supply’ … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/87575/govt-has-been-concerned-some-time-about-risks-rising-mortgage-rates-%C2%A0house-price-boom

How come supposedly first home buyers are borrowing just 5.5 times annual household incomes in a 10 Multiple market (refer Demographia Survey) such as Auckland ?

The Lending Multiples should mirror the Median Multiples of specific markets.

In normal markets … being at or below 3 times annual household incomes the Lending Multiple should be about 2.5 times.

Im very surprised experienced Interest Co NZ reporter didn’t have this out with New Zealand Prime Minister Bill English.
.
.
China’s clampdown on capital outflows is having a noticeable effect in Auckland’s auction rooms … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ …

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/87523/chinas-clampdown-capital-outflows-having-noticeable-effect-aucklands-auction-rooms

It has been a funny old week around the main Auckland apartment auctions.

There was no auction at City Sales’ rooms this week, although they have a full offering next week.

Down at Barfoot & Thompson’s rooms, two properties were scheduled for their regular Thursday apartment auction, but one was withdrawn prior to the event and the other had its auction postponed just as bidding was due to get underway, so there was no action there.

Up at Ray White City Apartments five properties were up for auction this week and a good crowd turned out for the event.

One of the most notable features of the crowd was that there were very few ethnic Chinese faces among the potential bidders.… read more via hyperlink above …
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May 9, 2017 12:21pm
- Nostradamus
  
  … (refer Demographia Survey) …
  
  I see you remembered to clip the self-promotion ticket while passing through this thread on the way to… where were you going again?
  
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  May 9, 2017 12:45pm
  - Swifty
    
    I apologise to Kiwiblog readers for writing the other day that Hugh ‘seems a real asshole’ for consistently ignoring requests to refrain from his relentless abuse of this blog through self-promotion.
    
    What I meant to say is that he is definitely an asshole.
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:40pm
- starboard
  
  Hugh, do you drink one, or two cups of gloom for brekky each morning ?
  
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  May 9, 2017 2:55pm
- 4077th
  
  No need for me to go back to the doc for sleeping pills. Reading one of Hugh’s posts is a cure for insomnia.
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:56pm
freemark

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/92371276/sportsman-paid-for-underage-sex-act

Got to feel a bit sorry for this guy. A photo of the “victim” would be appropriate as plenty of 13yr olds these days look & act considerably older.
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May 9, 2017 12:36pm
- cha
  
  You feel a bit sorry for a child sex offender who advantage of a drunken 13 year old, really?.
  
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  May 9, 2017 12:42pm
  - freemark
    
    Or a wayward little sl*t who wanted some cash and has now destroyed the life of a guy…
    
    “On March 11, 2016, Benny, then 25, was getting money out of a South Dunedin ATM with a friend about 11.30pm.
    
    The victim approached the pair with her 14-year-old friend. Both girls were clearly drunk, Justice Dunningham said.
    
    The 13-year-old offered to perform oral sex on Benny in a nearby car park in return for $50.
    
    After the act, Benny paid her the $50 and they went their separate ways.”
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:48pm
    - cha
      
      Oh, so it’s her fault, now.
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:50pm
      - freemark
        
        I must have missed the bit where he approached the innocent little angel offering her $50 to blow him…
        
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        May 9, 2017 12:59pm
      - mikenmild
        
        It’s always her fault.
        Children soliciting sex for money should be locked up so that they can’t entrap innocent guys like ‘Benny’…
        
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        May 9, 2017 2:35pm
    - holysheet
      
      He should have used the Clinton excuse;
      “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”
      
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      May 9, 2017 2:04pm
    - rightoverlabour
      
      Does he get the $50.00 back? seems like a breach of contract her. Seriously though, you got to be retarded to do what he did. As for the sluts, how many more potential “victims” are there? I am totally against underage sex, but these tarts are a major problem
      
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      May 9, 2017 2:32pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Nope. Is statutory rape, aka “jailbait” (or as Errol Flynn described it, “San Quentin quail”), not “a child sex offender”
    
    Dan William Benny, 26, fought to keep his name suppressed after he was convicted of procuring sexual services from an under-age girl…
    
    The victim approached the pair with her 14-year-old friend. Both girls were clearly drunk, Justice Dunningham said.
    
    The 13-year-old offered to perform oral sex on Benny in a nearby car park in return for $50.
    
    After the act, Benny paid her the $50 and they went their separate ways.
    
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    May 9, 2017 12:50pm
    - Kimbo
      
      BTW, wasn’t decriminalising prostitution meant to stop this sort of thing? Yes, I know a 13-year old is not allowed to work in brothel…
      
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      May 9, 2017 12:54pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Decriminalising prostitution won’t stop guys like Benny taking their opportunities.
        
        3 8
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        May 9, 2017 2:37pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Correct. But then wasn’t the promise that no such “opportunities” out in the street next to a money machine need never occur again?
        
        On balance decriminalising was a wise choice in that it was a “necessary evil, and if nothing else ended the hypocrisy that the prostitute, not the client was the only one prosecuted. But Tim Barnett and other cheer leaders rather over-egged the pudding when it came to the alleged benefits
        
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        May 9, 2017 3:00pm
- peterwn
  
  He should have known better – he was a law student who was getting good grades. The Law Society is unlikely to recommend that he be called to the bar – he will have to take his application straight to the High Court, but would need to show that he has behaved himself for five to ten years after this incident.
  As far as age is concerned, I think it is strict liability – if she is under 16 it is ‘no go’ even if she looks like 30 years old.
  
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  May 9, 2017 6:49pm
  - cmm
    
    “if she is under 16 it is ‘no go’ even if she looks like 30 years old.” The problem with this is how the hell are you supposed to know? Do you ask for Id?
    
    When I was at uni a medical student I knew had sex with a “17 year old” he picked up at bar. When they were finished she then said she was 12. He never made a mistake like that again and went on to be a practicing doc. Would it have been fair to cut short his career for being deceived?
    
    One would think it pretty hard to confuse a 12 year old with a legal aged girl, but that is not so. A female friend of mine whom I met when she was 16 and I was 17 is very tall. When I met her she was well over 6 ft. She looked 18 or so in the photos she showed me of when she was 12 or so.
    
    Her daughters are also pretty tall and both were getting a lot of attention in their young teens.
    
    If there are genuine grounds on which to have made an error then it is only fair to let things slide.
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:08pm
Nostradamus

Islamic State recruiter’s wife Moutia Elzahed charged for refusing to stand in court

A Sydney woman who refused to stand in court, citing her Islamic faith, has become the first person to be charged under the state’s new “disrespectful behaviour” laws. Moutia Elzahed, the wife of convicted jihadi recruiter Hamdi Alqudsi, refused to stand before the presiding judge when she attempted to sue police over a raid on the family home in Revesby. She instructed her barrister to inform the NSW District Court she would not stand for anyone but Allah.

To my simple mind, using Australian law to sue the police but refusing to respect Australian judges (who apply Australian law) appears contradictory.

What do others think?
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May 9, 2017 12:41pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes, very contradictory. Her version of Justitia would hold a set scales with only one dish.
  
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  May 9, 2017 1:05pm
- cmm
  
  Special Allah logic. No wonder you don’t understand.
  
  If Allah didn’t keep the cops out of her house then he clearly wanted them to enter her house.
  
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  May 9, 2017 1:11pm
- holysheet
  
  Contempt of Court. Lock the bitch up until she sees the error of her ways.
  
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  May 9, 2017 2:06pm
- starboard
  
  Oh please pleaseeeeee I want to hear what stupid boy has to say…
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:20pm
  - 4077th
    
    The silence is deafening as is the silence on condemnation of Akbari.
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:45pm
- 4077th
  
  1. Off to the infidels prison for contempt
  2. Keep in solitary so influence of other inmates not possible
  3. Stay in infidel prison until you obey the law of the land.
  4. Once convicted, back you go to the hell hole from whence you came.
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:31pm
Monique Watson

I drink too much. Dat’s’ll I got. Grandchildren a long way off. Hic!
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May 9, 2017 12:49pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I wonder how the cops got involved.
  
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  May 9, 2017 1:17pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Rachael:
    
    Please do tell – how did the cops get involved in Monique’s drinking session? 🙂
    
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    May 9, 2017 1:25pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      lol I thought she was referring to the 13 year old giving blow jobs as the drunk and that it didn’t matter what she did at 13 as grandchildren were a long way off. 😉 Hence my query as to how it came to police attentio as it was in a car park away from the ATM’s cameras.
      
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      May 9, 2017 2:37pm
      - 4077th
        
        I suspect the crafty little tarts might have tried to blackmail their target. When more money was not forthcoming a visit to the constabulary was in order given the complainant/s could not be charged either way. But I am only guessing..
        
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        May 9, 2017 3:35pm
Shaun the Sheep

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/borrows-fails-to-have-driving-charge-dismissed/ar-BBATMYG?li=BBqdk7Q&OCID=HPDHP

I note that Chester Borrows has failed to have his case dismissed.

I wonder:
If the snowflake had been successful in preventing Borrows’ car from exiting the driveway, would she and her loudmouth companions have been charged with unlawful imprisonment, or something?
Afterall, the occupants of the vehicle would have been confined in the carpark and unable to go about their lawful business.
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May 9, 2017 1:35pm
- holysheet
  
  When will you learn that anything white in this country has got no rights to anything. The ferals have got all the rights.
  
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  May 9, 2017 2:09pm
  - itstricky
    
    She was white. You need to get your stereotypes straight.
    
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    May 9, 2017 5:35pm
- peterwn
  
  The judge dismissed the case after letting it proceed to conclusion.
  
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  May 9, 2017 6:40pm
Monique Watson

@Nostradamus. Same-way as everyone gets involved in my drinking sessions. Turn up thirsty. Leave the kids with the help.
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May 9, 2017 2:16pm
Longknives

Sounds great Monique! Is that an invite to all the Kiwiblog ‘Family’?
I’d love to get on the booze and meet all you crazy kids!
Just think- Mikenmild and Yoza might turn up on their bicycles each with a six pack of Organic Vegan Beer on the carrier..
D4J might make a spectacular entrance in his Glider, Penny could even be Party MC with her loudhailer?
Starboard with his Thai Harem, Dime with his Kiwi Harem, David Garrett with his Moustache…
The possibilities are endless- Oh what a night that would be!
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May 9, 2017 2:56pm
starboard

Im a starter..”are you gonna bring mum mm or shall I ? Hope she doesn’t wear that twin set again, does nothing for her arse.
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May 9, 2017 3:03pm
dad4justice

The Glider is at the ready steady. Bomber command red alert lol.
7 3
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May 9, 2017 3:05pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Dad:
  
  I may have been watching too much Doctor Who lately, so forgive me if this question seems a bit technical: will the space-time continuum become damaged beyond repair if you bump into Big Bruv at the event?
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:19pm
  - dad4justice
    
    When I bump into that pathological liar I will ask him to apologize for his slander of me for over a decade. Look at the Whale Oil episode ( abuse of his mother ) I have no doubts it was him, because he has hacked my identity for years. I would like to meet with him face to face and ask him why such intense hatred? Why all the malicious lies?
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:25pm
    - 4077th
      
      Now THAT is a show I would pay money to see!
      
      8 0
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      May 9, 2017 3:38pm
      - stigie
        
        With all these identities, you just don’t who’s going to turn up to this orgy..?
        
        7 1
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        May 9, 2017 4:01pm
    - sam green
      
      Do you think he wants to be you dad? Perhaps he’s in love with you.
      
      8 1
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      May 9, 2017 4:22pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Sam get your head out of the sewer you twisted twit!
        
        3 4
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        May 9, 2017 4:31pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Just a clumsy expression, D4J. I’m sure sam meant “women want D4J; men want to be wanted by him”.
        Or did I get that round the wrong way?
        
        4 3
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        May 9, 2017 4:38pm
    - dad4justice
      
      Hey stigfly how many rounds shall I pack in the mossberg to deal with my fan club?
      
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      May 9, 2017 4:45pm
      - stigie
        
        As many rounds as you are able to put in your popgun Dad.
        No wonder people here have a pseudonym, a while back you were calling people cowardly aids infested spineless jellyfish creeps. Most probably know who you are and that fine but the people here would rather stay anonymous from the abuse you hand out and what the next level you could go to !~
        
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        May 9, 2017 5:00pm
      - dad4justice
        
        The next level stigfly ? What do you mean?
        
        2 5
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        May 9, 2017 5:36pm
      - stigie
        
        “how many rounds shall I pack in the mossberg to deal with my fan club?”
        
        That’s the next level im talking about Dad ?
        There’s a huge difference between “banter” and “abuse” !~
        
        5 1
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        May 9, 2017 5:52pm
Monique Watson

I have been known to drink naked and with insouciance. Helps the creative spark get away. Just saying.
Not sure I want Penny around on such an occasion. Kids with Grandie’s fine.
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May 9, 2017 3:27pm
- holysheet
  
  in other words you got pissed and had sex. Dunno about the kids with you and grandie though.
  Are you sure your not pissed now?
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:40pm
Monique Watson

Of course I don’t drink neked. I’m a Kiwi.
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May 9, 2017 3:37pm
Captain Mainwaring

Just by way of changing the subject, am I the only one who thinks Bill English could do with a bit of visual enhancement? Mouse-grey hair, dull grey suit, depressingly subtle tie etc. don’t project an image of dynamism.
With the likes of Jami-Lee Ross and even the venerable Peters in classy suits and colourful ties he’s looking very subdued. Going into the election in this mode isn’t going to help.
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May 9, 2017 3:41pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Captain Mainwaring:
  
  Jacinda Ardern has good contacts at Women’s Weekly who could organise a wardrobe makeover, a photoshoot and a gushing story that tugs at our heartstrings. Maybe Bill English should ask her for advice!
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:46pm
  - 4077th
    
    Getting it from the horses mouth..so to speak 🙂
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:53pm
- Longknives
  
  Monique’s talking about getting naked and you want to change the subject??
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:50pm
- 4077th
  
  He is merely attempting to offset the the blinding gaudiness of the Greens Co Conspirator’s daily costumes … AKA The Larping, smirking, part time Maori Turei.
  
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  May 9, 2017 3:52pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Sheesh 4077th – the thought of Ms Turei turning up to a party with her pogo stick isn’t appealing!
    
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    May 9, 2017 3:58pm
    - 4077th
      
      James Shaw would probably object to being called a pogo stick.
      
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      May 9, 2017 4:02pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        4077th:
        
        Sorry for the confusion. James Shaw is her handbag. The pogo stick is used to keep him on the straight and narrow – in the fullest GLBTIQA sense of that phrase!
        
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        May 9, 2017 4:13pm
      - 4077th
        
        Nostradamus:
        
        It’s all done in the best possible taste!
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkqxagJglaI
        
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        May 9, 2017 4:18pm
    - dad4justice
      
      The party would have to held on at a venue with a reinforced concrete floor, as that humongous green watermelon would crash through a wooden floor on a pogo stick. Not to mention the earthquake the hog would cause.
      
      7 3
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      May 9, 2017 4:23pm
      - Kea
        
        MadDad, Maybe they could use the abandoned sewage treatment plant where you Christchurch boys hold your white power meetings and gay orgies ?
        
        7 6
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        May 9, 2017 4:28pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Go flush yourself down the shitter Kea you deranged mental case study! Your not banned yet, that’s a world record you insane parrot.
        
        6 9
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        May 9, 2017 4:33pm
      - stigie
        
        Im sure there’s better dunnys in the south/west corner of Hagley Park Kea from what i’ve been told..?
        
        6 2
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        May 9, 2017 4:38pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Now that’s where D4J gets the idea of a reinforced floor from…
        
        8 3
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        May 9, 2017 4:40pm
      - Kea
        
        Language MadDad !
        
        You shaven headed gay ogres are are supposed to be the master race and should be leading by example. The nation is looking to you for guidance 🙂
        
        9 4
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        May 9, 2017 4:44pm
      - dad4justice
        
        Kea the deranged mad women living in bitterness and disharmony. God I feel sorry for you. Haha yeah right. Hi big bruv great to see you have outdone your effort at Panda Sports. How do you do it, as I thought David F was switched on? One day we catch up eh.
        
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        May 9, 2017 4:50pm
starboard

**Sultan Ali Abdul Ali Akbari must go**

Deport the convicted import and sexual deviant.
No female is safe until this bastard has gone.

Followed by the inept and bugged eyed waste of space M Woodhouse.
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May 9, 2017 4:26pm
- dad4justice
  
  Maybe the White Ribbon campaign this year should petition this scum of earth to the death chamber? Yeah right !
  
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  May 9, 2017 4:43pm
  - Kea
    
    MadDad I think the White Ribbon thing is about stopping violence and I’m just wondering how you think a “death chamber” fits with their marketing image ?
    
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    May 9, 2017 4:48pm
Nostradamus

Man who defecated on Devils Marbles is ‘shitting on our culture’, should be prosecuted, elders say

Traditional owners are calling for a man who defecated at the Devils Marbles sacred site in Central Australia to be prosecuted. The traditional owners of the site, also known as Karlu Karlu, told Central Land Council (CLC) chairman Francis Kelly they felt deeply distressed and upset about the incident and believed it demeaned their culture.

You’d think the traditional owners would be more concerned about environmental issues but, no, it’s about their culture.
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May 9, 2017 4:55pm
dad4justice

Hey Nostra surely you agree with me that big bruv has at least a 12 identities on here. Who is this creep?
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May 9, 2017 4:57pm
- mikenmild
  
  Although Nostradamus has acquired an eminent and well-deserved stature as Kiwiblog’s archivist, I think it unlikely that he will lend his erudition to substantiating the fantasies of the permanently bewildered.
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:01pm
- Nostradamus
  
  Dad:
  
  I don’t know who Big Bruv is. He doesn’t seem to comment much here anymore – perhaps he’s moved on to other things. You seem to have picked up quite a few fans over the years – remember James Sleep and Roger Nome – and MyNameisJack?
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:04pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Hi Nostra I think James Sleep is stephieboy and Roger Nome is mm, MyNameisJack was that Brindle dude.
    
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    May 9, 2017 5:08pm
- Kea
  
  big bruv has at least a 12 identities
  
  MadDad maybe you could develop another identity that is not an ignorant arsehole. What do ya reckon ? 🙂
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:09pm
Captain Mainwaring

News just in:
Chester Borrows not guilty of careless driving causing injury.
What bloody plonkers the plods were to charge him in the first place.
The complainant should have been charged with disturbing the peace.
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May 9, 2017 5:00pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  What do you have to say about that Morris Dancer?
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:04pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Good result.
  With luck the heads of shreiking harpies whose conduct brought about this omnishambles will explode.
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:05pm
- mikenmild
  
  A salutary message not to drive into people just because they are standing in one’s way though. I don’t see that the police had any option but to prosecute.
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:09pm
  - dad4justice
    
    Why didn’t police prosecute Klarkula on her broomstick flying at 150kms/hour late for a rugger game?
    
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    May 9, 2017 5:18pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Mikenmild:
    
    Remember this: Teen activist, MP dispute protest incident
    
    Masterton police are investigating claims that a vehicle Wairarapa MP John Hayes was travelling in was deliberately driven toward a teenage protester. … James [Sleep] claims Mr Hayes’ car drove straight into his path, but Mr Hayes said: “This boy jumped into the path of my car and we were going very slowly. We didn’t hit him. He is known to me and has been harassing me and a number of other MPs for some time.” James said he was just exercising his democratic rights.
    
    There wasn’t a lot of sympathy for James on Kiwiblog at the time.
    
    Dad:
    
    I came across this Kiwiblog post – 12 days of Christmas by Dad4Justice – while searching for the John Hayes story:
    
    On the twelfth day of Christmas
    My ex love sent to me
    Twelve Penal notices
    Eleven Allegations
    Ten CYFS people
    Nine Dates for hearings
    Eight separate motions
    Seven injunction papers
    Six witness statements
    Five policemen……………
    Four solicitors letters
    Three harassment charges
    Two protection orders
    And a summons to stop my custody
    
    That’s original and funny!
    
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    May 9, 2017 5:18pm
    - dad4justice
      
      Thanks Nostra
      
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      May 9, 2017 5:28pm
    - Kea
      
      Yep that is good work MadDad !
      
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      May 9, 2017 5:33pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Bullshit milky. He was holding it on the brake going as slowly as possible and they deliberately put their feet under the tyre.
    
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    May 9, 2017 5:23pm
- Stars And Stripes
  
  Whole thing was a farce from beginning to end.
  Witch hunt of the worst kind orchestrated by some poor actors and associated losers.
  Hope that foot is not still giving you trouble sweetie but if it is suck it up but try not to choke on it.
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:20pm
  - Keeping Stock
    
    Dead right. The Police top brass were so desperate NOT to be seen as being biased towards a former cop/MP, that they trumped up a charge that had little chance of succeeding. They even got PN’s senior Crown lawyer, Ben Vanderkolk, over to prosecute the case.
    
    If common sense had prevailed and Borrows had been given a simple ticket for careless driving, this farce of a court appearance and waste of the court’s time would have been avoided.
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:46pm
- 4077th
  
  Great result, the wreckers and haters team lose another one.
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:21pm
- MCos
  
  Chester Burrows explained on Checkpoint why he thought he was charged. He suggested that the decision came from the top and was based on risk aversion rather than common sense.
  In other words the police didn’t want to be seen looking after one of their own and kicked the can down the road.
  Why spent taxpayers’ money chasing robbers when it can be used for this nonsense . . . . and a flag referendum
  
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  May 9, 2017 5:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can the Greens foresee the future?

Last call of Kea
https://blog.greens.org.nz/2017/05/04/kea-conservation/
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May 9, 2017 5:48pm
- Kea
  
  The Greens can not see a future. Their doctrine is the world is ending due to fractionally higher tides and slightly milder weather in some places 🙂
  
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  May 9, 2017 6:17pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It was Mojo’s prescience about your last call on KB that I was alluding to.
    Serious predator control is needed to save you.
    
    I must gather up some bait.
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:34pm
Brigitte

NZ MUSIC MONTH

From 1995, Shihad and Debs Night Out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlGWRCDR40A

They were on Prime last Tuesday; this week it’s NZ student radio.
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May 9, 2017 6:13pm
Happychappy

Wow so Paddy Gower is jealous about what National MP’s own and went on to tell they own farms and several have two or more properties. Gower also went on to say in times like this when people need homes so make of it what you will. This second rate reporter not once quoted what other MP’s in other parties own. Just a Parasite.
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May 9, 2017 6:27pm
- VicParking
  
  This is the sort of crap we will get from the MSM and Red Radio leading up to the election.
  National supporters with ignore it, Liebour and Green supporters will lap it up. NZ First supporters with just have another Whiskey and go to the races.
  Undecided votes will see through it and concentrate on the facts.
  
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  May 9, 2017 6:53pm
- dad4justice
  
  Could Piddy Sower the leftie troll tell me how many rental properties Klarkula owns and is Peter allowed into the USA yet?
  
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  May 9, 2017 7:01pm
  - starboard
    
    Clare Curran, liarbor chardonnay drinker, owns 4 properties…FOUR !!!
    
    11 1
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    May 9, 2017 7:18pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Dad:
    
    There’s no need for Helen and Peter to buy a holiday home in the US. They like the great New Zealand outdoors: High praise for Pouakai Crossing from former Prime Minister after New Year’s Eve walk. Hagley Park is outdoors too, I suppose, but it can get a bit crowded during the popular season and a bit cold during the off-peak season!
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:29pm
    - starboard
      
      I believe there are places to cuddle up/spoon in the toilet block in Hagley park closest to Deans ave.
      Glory holes abound, fun times in chc. Watch for mm in the shadows. ” code call..” cock a doodle do “
      
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      May 9, 2017 7:52pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Starboard:
        
        cock a doodle do
        
        Are you telling us that Mikenmild is a bit of a ~~rooter~~ rooster in his spare time? 🙂
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:01pm
      - starboard
        
        ..I’d say receiver/catcher Nosty
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:03pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s the lowdown on who owns what
  https://www.interest.co.nz/property/87597/new-zealands-mps-have-interests-350-properties-between-them-three-each-25-if-you-cut
  
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  May 9, 2017 7:46pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  So much for what Paddy thinks, I think it’s good that the country is in the hands of people who can organise their own finances.
  Unlike Angry, who has a half share in an ordinary house in Island Bay with a monkey on it.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:13pm
stigie

The other big question, is the professor still married to Klarkula or are all his energy’s elsewhere..?
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May 9, 2017 7:28pm
- mikenmild
  
  And the public interest in others’ marital arrangements would be…?
  
  3 10
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  May 9, 2017 7:36pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Mikenmild:
    
    You’ll be aware that marital arrangements (including those of an extramarital nature) often feature in the gossip section of women’s magazines. The more salacious the gossip the better!
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:41pm
    - mikenmild
      
      Just because people like to read the scandalous details doesn’t necessarily make them of public interest – except, for example, where a politician who stands on morals is preaching one thing while practising another (looks at Colin Craig).
      
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      May 9, 2017 7:51pm
      - stigie
        
        But the marital arrangement between Klarkula and the Professor is fascinating Milky……
        How do they do it..?
        
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        May 9, 2017 7:57pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Stigie:
        
        How do they do it..?
        
        By “it”, Stigie, are you referring to their ability to maintain a marital relationship despite being in different countries for years at a time, or to what happens underneath the sheets when they come together?
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:32pm
  - nasska
    
    Probably a shade of Caesar’s wife Mike. Our MPs feel confident to dictate who can have an abortion or use medical marijuana & run scared of the Godwhacks’ opposition to assisted suicide.
    
    It’s little things like this that we of the Great Unwashed remember when we see what the two faced arseholes get up to in their own time.
    
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    May 9, 2017 7:48pm
    - mikenmild
      
      See my reply to Nostradamus. It’s relevant when, for example, Donald Trump opposes abortion but won’t say whether he has paid for any of his partners to have abortions.
      
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      May 9, 2017 7:52pm
      - dad4justice
        
        So if a ex Prime Minister got police to overlook criminal acts of indecency by its partner that is ok in your books mouldy? Careful now we all know the Truth.
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:01pm
      - Kea
        
        It’s relevant when, for example, Donald Trump opposes abortion but won’t say whether he has paid for any of his partners to have abortions.
        
        milky you say you are against wife beating but refuse to tell us if you have stopped beating your wife yet ?
        
        Why so silent on this issue ?
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:19pm
      - mikenmild
        
        What are you going on about, D4J? Is there some sordid act you participated in that you would like to tell us about?
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Russia commemorates Victory Day.

https://www.rt.com/news/387635-russia-celebrates-victory-day/
3 0
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May 9, 2017 8:01pm
- Kea
  
  Are you trying to summons the resident Nazi supporting anti-Slavic hate monger ? Please don’t. Its a disgusting smear on humanity and the most putrid and vile commenter I have ever seen on a blog.
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:06pm
  - stigie
    
    Yes, we must save Kea from disappearing..?
    
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    May 9, 2017 8:08pm
    - Kea
      
      You won’t go to heaven if you do. 🙂
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:15pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    My evocation abilities are rather limited.
    
    2 0
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    May 9, 2017 8:18pm
    - nasska
      
      It’s a good job you weren’t here a few years back Maggy. The Godaddled were in the ascendancy & many were the calls for Colin Craig to bypass being an MP & move straight to beatitude.
      
      Kokila was under pressure to open GD with the Lords Prayer while there was no shortage of lay preachers writing sermons as comments about the Hell that awaited us all.
      
      First we missed the raptures & then Colin started writing poetry so it all turned out okay in the end. 🙂
      
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      May 9, 2017 8:29pm
      - Kea
        
        nasska, yes they were simpler times. There were the filthy gay-enabling hell bound atheists and the righteous boy fiddling theists. 🙂
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:46pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The Godaddled were in the ascendancy
        Perhaps they have gone before us (to prepare the way)
        I do hope they are all praying for us though.
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:49pm
      - Kea
        
        The Compulsory Gay Marriage and Sodomy Act was the one that really got them going in full song.
        
        4 1
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        May 9, 2017 8:53pm
      - nasska
        
        Reid, D4J, krazykiwi, Keepingstock & Shawn, amongst others, have all informed me that they pray diligently & regularly for my soul Maggy.
        
        Now that they’ve put the good word in for me I’m certain that I’ll be fast tracked to Heaven at the first sign of a bad cough. 🙂
        
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        May 9, 2017 8:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @nasska,
        
        I’ve got a mickey-doo praying for my mortal soul; but I wonder if I should bring in some other brethren; just-in-case the Papists are wrong.
        
        But in the long run does it matter?… coz the Mormons are going to shove our names into their Archives anyway… and I think we get reunited with all the gang then.
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:15pm
EAD

I’ve been following this great project in America called “Chronicling America” that has been taking all historic newspapers in America 1789-1824 and putting them on the web for posteritys sake.

Here is an article from The Sun., May 29, 1907, Page 6:

6 million jews courageously fighting and heroically suffering for their final political and social emancipation

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030272/1907-05-29/ed-1/seq-6/#date1=1836&sort=relevance&rows=20&words=6000000+Jews&searchType=basic&sequence=0&index=3&state=&date2=1922&proxtext=6000000+jews&y=17&x=11&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

It’s almost as if the mythical 6 million figure was a requirement before the self styled “Chosen ones” could return to their equally mythical home.

The truth be damned as long as it fulfils a Talmudic prophesy.

I mean, even when they were forced to change the plaque at Auschwitz (aka ground zero) to revise the supposed death toll from there down from 4m to 1m, their was still no revision of the mythical 6m figure…
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May 9, 2017 8:41pm
- mikenmild
  
  What did Churchill have to say about ‘butchering the wrong pig’? Find that in any old newspapers yet?
  
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  May 9, 2017 8:56pm
  - Kea
    
    Oh look what slithered out dragging a red herring,
    
    4 5
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    May 9, 2017 9:00pm
  - EAD
    
    What did Churchill have to say about ‘butchering the wrong pig’? Find that in any old newspapers yet?
    
    “LOOK OVER THERE – SQUIRREL!”
    
    Easy to understand why you’re approaching 30k comments after a little over 3 years…..
    
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    
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    May 9, 2017 9:06pm
    - mikenmild
      
      A normal person would just admit being wrong, and perhaps even think about being more careful in presenting stuff from dubious sources.
      But back to the six million, if you have to have points refuted a thousand times (PRATT). No reputable historian disputes that as a fair approximation of the numbers of Jews exterminated by your beloved Nazis.
      Have you been to see Denial yet?
      
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      May 9, 2017 9:21pm
      - Kea
        
        Why won’t you address the point instead of attacking the man ?
        
        What is you take on the multiple previous claims of 6 million Jews killed, decades before the war ?
        
        Oh before you lie about that and scream nazi, remember we have google now and you can read the articles from the turn of the century.
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:34pm
      - Kea
        
        “No reputable historian disputes that ”
        
        It is a criminal act to dispute it in many countries. You are not allowed to refute it, regardless of the evidence. It is simply against the law.
        
        Reputable researchers are attacked and are not even allowed in many countries, including this nation of sheeple.
        
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        May 9, 2017 9:50pm
      - EAD
        
        Here is Milkmaid earlier today:
        
        That this case might be the trigger for removing ridiculous restrictions on free speech is an added bonus
        
        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/05/why_blasphemy_laws_should_be_repealed.html#comment-1925438
        
        So on one hand he is telling us how much he supports “free speech” (especially if supporting the globohomo agenda) while talking out the other side of his mouth, he wants taboo ideas and discussions banned.
        
        All the while furiously attacking and destroying strawmen arguments.
        
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        May 9, 2017 10:05pm
    - mikenmild
      
      No contradiction there, EAD. You have every right to expose your own stupidity with your Holocaust-denying bullshit.
      Nor would I wish to censor your ludicrous ideas about imminent financial collapse. (BTW, do you have an updated prediction on that?)
      And no, I don’t attack straw men. You are a self-professed Nazi and Holocaust denier, so attacker that nullshit is no rhetorical trick.
      
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      May 10, 2017 6:46am
Monique Watson

Oh fuck, why the ragged old crusty Hitler debates? Wouldn’t you just rather party? “Hic”
Anyone got a joke?
I’d pray for you Nasska but it’d be like Jabba the Hutt doing a token turn of a memorial lantern. Picturesque but futile.
4 0
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May 9, 2017 9:51pm
Kea

NZTA and KiwiRail granted permission to kill or injure seals during Kaikoura highway rebuild

LOL 🙂 And then there is the falling sea levels…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/92383750/nzta-and-kiwirail-granted-permission-to-kill-or-injure-seals-during-kaikoura-highway-rebuild
5 0
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May 9, 2017 10:01pm
Manolo

Brand power:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/apple-market-capitalization-hits-800-billion.html

Apple shares briefly surpassed a price of $153.44 a share, and with Apple’s 5.214 billion shares outstanding, according to its latest quarterly report, that makes its total market capitalization just over $800 billion.
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May 9, 2017 10:19pm
- Jack5
  
  Market capitalisation of over $NZ1.14 trillion! What a visionary and implementer Steve Jobs was. A bit of the attraction is, as you say, Manolo, brand power. PC’s and Android phones do the job, too.
  
  If you’re interested in Apple’s latest quarterly financial report and have the time, here’s a link (sitting on cash and ready-marketable securities at April 1 of $US47.1 billion):
  
  https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q2FY17ConsolidatedFinancialStatements.pdf
  
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  May 9, 2017 10:48pm
Inandout

If you ring Marcus Lush tonight and talk about Maori prisons, don’t say they are race based; he will cut you off. Consequently he is now begging for callers.
4 0
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May 9, 2017 11:03pm
BeeSting

What happened to Dork Anderson

Sorry Dick head Anderson what was his name again

that’s Right

J o c k Anderson

I need to read some comedy print it out
and WIPE MY BUM on it

I think you people call it the
Herald
Kiwibog

or get stuffed dot co dot nz
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May 10, 2017 12:03am
Manolo

Griff and the deranged Greens will endorse the idea:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-fools-errand-al-gores-15-trillion-carbon-tax/article/2622479

Al Gore wants to reverse modernity and save the world from itself through an elimination of its fossil-fuel-based energy system. During the final week of April, his newly created Energy Transitions Commission released a document setting forth a fool’s-errand pathway to “decarbonize” the world’s energy system.

The all-in estimated cost to re-engineer humanity is only a mere $15 trillion—enough money to give every man, woman, and child in the United States more than $46,000.
1 0
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May 10, 2017 3:55am
- mikenmild
  
  Only the price of a few of America’s recent wars…
  
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  May 10, 2017 6:49am
Rachael Membery

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/spotlight/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504095&objectid=11852144

Isabella Forshall, mitigating for Nicholas Taylor, said: “As bad as this case is, it’s not one of the very worst.”
Well that says it all!!!
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May 10, 2017 4:26am
EAD

Well done that man 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/92329364/palmerston-north-retiree-makes-a-mint-ditching-gold-for-cryptocurrency

Actually, it was more like $140,000 of gold bars……
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May 10, 2017 8:00am

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