General Debate 15 April 2017

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William of Ockham

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Posted for the self-anointed scientists on kiwiblog, who dismiss the use of models and debunk a straw-scientist (Al Gore). This is to satisfy all that curiosity that you boast you have.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/climate-model-projections-compared-to-observations/
Climate model projections compared to observations. 11 April 2017
[graphs]
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http://bartonlevenson.com/ModelsReliable.html
Are the models, in fact, untestable? Are they unable to make valid predictions? Let’s review the record. Global Climate Models have successfully predicted:

That the globe would warm, and about how fast, and about how much.
That the troposphere would warm and the stratosphere would cool.
That nighttime temperatures would increase more than daytime temperatures.
That winter temperatures would increase more than summer temperatures.
Polar amplification (greater temperature increase as you move toward the poles).
That the Arctic would warm faster than the Antarctic.
The magnitude (0.3 K) and duration (two years) of the cooling from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption.
They made a retrodiction for Last Glacial Maximum sea surface temperatures which was inconsistent with the paleo evidence, and better paleo evidence showed the models were right.
They predicted a trend significantly different and differently signed from UAH satellite temperatures, and then a bug was found in the satellite data.
The amount of water vapor feedback due to ENSO.
The response of southern ocean winds to the ozone hole.
The expansion of the Hadley cells.
The poleward movement of storm tracks.
The rising of the tropopause and the effective radiating altitude.
The clear sky super greenhouse effect from increased water vapor in the tropics.
The near constancy of relative humidity on global average.
That coastal upwelling of ocean water would increase.

Seventeen correct predictions? Looks like a pretty good track record to me.

Are there problems with the models, and areas where they haven’t gotten it right yet? Sure there are. The double Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone which shows up in some coupled models, ENSO variability, insufficiently sensitive sea ice, diurnal cycles of moist convection, and the exact response of climate to clouds are all areas of ongoing research. But the models are still the best thing we have for climate prediction under different scenarios, and there is no reason at all to think they’re getting the overall picture wrong.
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http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=20314
What is the uncertainty in the Earth’s temperature rise?
Shaun Lovejoy, McGill University. 11 April 2017
Below I summarize the key points of a new Climate Dynamics (CD) paper that I think opens up new perspectives on understanding and estimating the relevant uncertainties. The main message is that the primary sources of error and bias are not those that have been the subject of the most attention – they are not human in origin.
[continues]
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April 15, 2017 8:29am
- stigie
  
  Not far away now to the blessed 30 !~
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:03am
  - sooty
    
    That be me.
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:16am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Would someone please call the men in white coats.
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:07am
  - stephieboy
    
    Captain, rich irony alert coming from you , eh ?
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:31am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Stupid Boy.
      
      the Captain
      
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      April 15, 2017 10:39am
duggledog

What an extraordinary outburst by outgoing Chester Borrows – we need to be smarter on crime, not tougher on crime.

WTF? This, from a former cop – and a lawyer?

No Chester. We need to be much, much tougher on crime. They just locked up another rock ape who killed his partner’s toddler for – wait for it – seven years.

Laughable.
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April 15, 2017 8:30am
- G152
  
  Obviously age related complaints are evident in that case.
  If they stop committing crimes they don’t go to jail.
  Pretty simple
  
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  April 15, 2017 8:49am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    G152,
    
    That statement is insulting to the apes. Even animals have proto-morality.
    Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8mDMVi1i8
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:38am
- cmm
  
  The real problem with trying to be smarter is that, generally, criminals are not that smart. Most criminals are sub-90 IQ.
  
  We can be as smart as we want, but that is not going to transfer into the crims.
  
  Stupid people who make bad decisions need very clear messages – not the complex, confusing messages implied by “smarter”.
  
  Clear messages are of the form: If you do x, it will be very bad for you because you will suffer y.
  
  There really is no choice to being tough on crime.
  
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  April 15, 2017 8:50am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    cmm,
    
    If “most criminals are sub-90 IQ” and some races (on average) score higher than 100 points in IQ tests, then is it reasonable to hypothesize that (on average) the crime rate among those races would be lower?
    This hypothesis ought to be testable.
    
    Note: “criminal” would have to be specified.
    
    Is it too simplistic to hypothesize that certain identifiable groups whose members (on average) have an IQ score of 90 points would feature more prominently in crime statistics?
    What other factors could be responsible?
    
    (Is it tinfoil hat time already?)
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:14am
    - mara
      
      It’s been done. Read The Bell Curve by Charles Murray. Probably not in your local library though as it is considered to be vile and racist. As in YOU CAN’T SAY THAT!
      
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      April 15, 2017 9:26am
      - mikenmild
        
        Probably not in the library because it’s pseudo-scientific bullshit.
        
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        April 15, 2017 9:30am
      - cmm
        
        Probably not in the library because the libraries are run by leftie librarians.
        
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        April 15, 2017 9:49am
      - mikenmild
        
        Hah – it’s in that well-known bastion of censorship, Wellington City Library!
        Freedom to spout racist bullshit lives.
        
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        April 15, 2017 9:52am
      - itstricky
        
        it’s in that well-known bastion of censorship, Wellington City Library!
        
        Also available in Auckland City.
        
        Probably not in the library because the libraries are run by leftie
        
        Probably incorrect
        
        Freedom to spout racist bullshit lives
        
        Yet cmm gets four upticks and you get seven downticks. Freedom to spout incorrect slogans lives!
        
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        April 15, 2017 10:07am
      - itstricky
        
        Also available in four tertiary libraries.
        
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        April 15, 2017 10:14am
      - cmm
        
        Somehow we accept that different populations have different:
        
        * Average height.
        * Average weight.
        * Ability to run fast.
        * Ability to run long distance.
        * Bone structure
        * Lung capacity
        * Ability to digest different foods
        * Susceptibility to different diseases.
        * Eyesight
        * BMI
        * Skin colour
        * Hairiness.
        
        But our IQ is exactly the same.
        
        Yeah right.
        
        Evolution is a game that tries to find the most efficient organism for the environment it is in. Therefore our various body parts get tuned over many generations to best match the environment we are in.
        
        Hence different people have evolved different attributes according to their natural environment.
        
        Our brain is the most expensive organ we have, so it would be ridiculous to think that everything else evolves according to the needs of our environment except our brains. Nope, the most expensive organ is exactly the same across all people.
        
        Sorry no. The lowest IQ people on the planet are those that have historically needed the least brain power: Australian Aborigines and Khoi San people in Southern Africa.
        
        Don’t get me wrong. These people have some exceptional skills. For example you won’t find better trackers anywhere. But straight up IQ – nope. Sorry.
        
        Of course there are individual exceptions (just as there are for other characteristics), hence bell curves in everything – from intelligence to height.
        
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        April 15, 2017 12:02pm
      - SGA
        
        @ccm
        
        Of course there are individual exceptions (just as there are for other characteristics), hence bell curves in everything – from intelligence to height.
        
        Yes and no – bell curves represent the enormous systematic variation found across people along many dimensions – that’s a much more general phenomenon than “individual exceptions”. And, I’m not sure that they are “in everything” – it depends on the number of genes involved. For example, I’m not sure that some of the stuff that you yourself mention is bell curved – susceptiblity to a disease like malaria? food tolerances such as ability to process milk products as an adult? I’m not even sure that eye colour is bell curved.
        The word “population” in your comment is also problematic – the Netherlands, I believe, has the greatest average height of any country (go figure), and Africa has “populations” of both very tall and very short stature. Certainly it would be dangerous to take examples of traits developing in smaller, localised populations and try to apply to them to a much larger amorphous concept like “race”.
        
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        April 15, 2017 1:25pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        The dutch had (literally) higher survival rates during floods if they were tall 😉
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_the_Netherlands
        
        They were so petrified of flooding that they even had crime punishments that centred on it. Eg a punishment for lazy people was to put them in a slowly flooding room for a period of time with a hand pump. You would drown if you didn’t pump long enough or hard enough.
        
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        April 15, 2017 2:09pm
      - cmm
        
        SGA
        
        I most deliberately did not apply these terms to “race” because “race” is an ill defined term and does not account for regional variations within a “race”.
        
        For example, if we were to term Black Africans as a race then we would have some very troublesome problems trying to stuff all black Africans into a single category.
        
        For example, West Africans are physically very different from East Africans and we can see that athletic performance. West Africans are far better at short distance running while East Africans are better at long distance running. They are separated by thousands of km and inhabit very different environments.
        
        We have the same issue with Europeans too. Different populations have different distinguishing characteristics.
        
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        April 15, 2017 2:15pm
      - SGA
        
        @cmm
        
        I most deliberately did not apply these terms to “race” because “race” is an ill defined term and does not account for regional variations within a “race”.
        
        Didn’t mean to imply that you did – only that the term “population” is vague enough to interpreted in all sorts of ways.
        
        very troublesome problems trying to stuff all black Africans into a single category.
        
        It’s even more dramatic than the example you give. One book I read recently claimed that if you took DNA samples from a Northern European, and two people from disparate parts of Africa, it is likely that each of the Africans will share more DNA with the European than they do with each other (and that’s why geneticists do not find the concept of “race” particularly useful).
        
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        April 15, 2017 4:47pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      a lot of analysis and meditations on IQ and criminality here. TLDR, very strong statistical link.
      
      http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/
      
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      April 15, 2017 2:04pm
- Shaun the Sheep
  
  I’m not known for fence-sitting, but I do support both sides of your argument on crime.
  Like you, I believe there are some individuals who should never see the light of day again. It simply isn’t safe for us or them.
  However you can’t lock everyone up for ever, so Borrows has a point. We must have a smarter approach to dealing with criminals, and that means both prevention and rehabilitation.
  It means a lot more carrot and stick approach to parenting – targeting welfare assistance better, and holding parents to account. It means abolishing the talk-fests that go on with youth crime and ensuring these kids have skills to get them through life on the right side of the line. It means sorting out the issues that criminals arrive to prison with. It involves sorting out the mental health system so we aren’t all victims of that particular disaster.
  And it involves an honest evaluation of how cave dwelling cultures impact crime and punishment.
  
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  April 15, 2017 8:55am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  What ever happened to Chester’s court case for ‘running over’ some useless protester who put her foot under his tyre?
  He must have got off or the MSM would have been all over it.
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:18am
  - oldpark
    
    Court case sometime this month, or early next month.
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:21am
  - stephieboy
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Shall we start a run over Trump/ alt righter supporter week ?
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:32am
- VicParking
  
  This is the man who replyed to my letter to him.
  “If you dont vote for National who else are you going to vote for”
  Please to see he was put out to pasture gefore he lost the seat.
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:13am
cmm

PETA having a spaz about bunny killing:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/91586716/central-otago-great-easter-bunny-hunt-is-massacre-activists-say

Killing a bunny in a second or two with a shotgun or 22 is apparently cruel, infecting them with RHDV which causes them to suffer for days is fine.

PETA are just out of touch cityfolk who think you can fix the bunny problem by unliking them on facebook.
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April 15, 2017 8:41am
Captain Mainwaring

As someone who occasionally delivers leaflets around the neighbourhood, I’m constantly amazed by the condition of quite a few of the properties, even in a very expensive suburb.
Rusting rooves, rotten weatherboards, overgrown gardens, derelict vehicles, peeling paint, collapsed fences and overflowing letterboxes stuffed with uncollected mail and wet newspapers.
It’s hard to imagine how all these losers find the energy to fall out of their stinking fart-sacks in the morning.
But worse, they probably vote, and I think I know who for.
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April 15, 2017 8:42am
- Southern Raider
  
  Even around Remuera you see berms that haven’t been mowed for months, weed gardens etc.
  
  I suspect it’s driven mainly by two factors
  – significant increase in investment properties and therefore tenants who have no “ownership” as to the state of the property
  – immigrant owners who don’t seem to have the same regard for maintaining property and pride in their property as people once did
  
  I live down a right of way and as houses have changed owners to investors and immigrants I’ve increasingly picked up the burden of maintaining common areas
  
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  April 15, 2017 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    One of the surprises coming to lowest decile Kaiti was that everyone (gang-pads, little ol’ ladies, single mums, working folks) keeps an immaculate mown verge. Some of these verges are pretty big….. not a one mower-sweep width that you get in Wellington.
    
    Sure, cars park up on the verge… which seems to horrify the hubby, but it keeps the roads clear.
    The neighbours quickly realised that we ‘big-city folk” had sloppy standards and one neighbour mows our western verge, and another mows our northern verge.
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:29am
  - Kabull
    
    Without wanting to fall into the modern improper language hole, can I also note that many of these ‘run down’ properties are owned/rented by recent immigrants from countries where having to care for one’s property is not a priority. Indeed, many have no idea how to maintain house and garden – or the desire.
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:34am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Capital gains are on land not houses.
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:10pm
oldpark

Was hoping our scum sucking so called Mainstream Media,mwould have published the latest news on a disgusting criminal act. An Auckland newspaper has a story about a sign in a window saying,no caps ,sunglasses or burkers in the store. Yet a waste of space Auckland councillor called Casey reckons its against human rights,to demand no head coverage. Seems the real story is about a doctor in USA ,who has been charged with allegedly performing female genital mutilation a religious and cultural practice ,on multiple 6-7 year old girls,to curb their sexuality and make sex painful. Same thing is allegedly going on in NZ. Wonder what will the Hierarchy from Plunket say or think,when they become aware of such an alleged religious and cultural practice going on in NZ,and will the human rights of such vunerable little girls be protected.
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April 15, 2017 8:47am
- stephieboy
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  oldpark , read that in your favoured sleaze National Enquirer , New York Post etc ?
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:34am
  - oldpark
    
    Sharia/boy/girl. you once more defend the indefensible. Figures, what part of muslim female mutilation,on young children ,do you not want to talk about,your carpet bagger mate Mohammed seemed to think it was a good idea. Seems he liked little girls and took one at age six,and then married her at nine.
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:41am
  - starboard
    
    Stupidboy..your thoughts please on mohammed marrying, and having sex with a 9 year old.
    
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    April 15, 2017 1:19pm
- VicParking
  
  The failing newspaper came out and called it “Implied racism”. :suggested but not directly expressed:
  Its already been investigated by the Squash team and deemed ok. But why let the facts and that it was a story two years ago get in the way when you need to sell advertising.
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:22am
- 4077th
  
  I liked the cafe owners comments when contacted…
  
  “I can’t be bothered”.
  
  “Go away and talk to someone who cares.”
  
  Spot on.
  
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  April 15, 2017 1:16pm
- cmm
  
  It’s not just girls.
  
  Circumcision is a violation for boys too.
  
  In South Africa over 20 Xhosa boys die each year from circumcisions gone wrong.
  
  https://ulwaluko.co.za/Photos.html
  
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  April 15, 2017 5:40pm
  - mikenmild
    
    We’re only supposed to talk about evil Muslim customs here…
    
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    April 15, 2017 5:48pm
    - cmm
      
      It is an Evil Muslim custom.
      
      However it is also an Evil custom practiced by many others too.
      
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      April 15, 2017 6:02pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Any surgical procedure can go wrong, although 20 deaths a year for a non-necessary (for health and well-being) operation is unacceptable. But would you include mainstream Jewish (and Muslim) circumcision in that assessment? Not saying you don’t have the right to an opinion, nor express it. Just wondering?
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:05pm
      - cmm
        
        Kimbo: Absolutely.
        
        Your foreskin contains a bunch of nerve endings which help to improve the enjoyment of sex etc.
        
        What right has a parent got to cut that off their kid for no sound medical reason?
        
        If men really want to be circumcised then let them first grow to an age where they can give consent.
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:09pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Makes it just an evil custom then?
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:10pm
      - nasska
        
        ….”Makes it just an evil custom then”…..
        
        Yes but perpetuated by religion. Put another way…..should religion die out tonight circumcision, male & female, would scarcely exist within a generation.
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:17pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Don’t forget that many (most) Samoan and Tongan boys get circumcised sometime between 10 and 13.
    
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    April 15, 2017 8:09pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Perhaps Plunket could ask Muslims that they are associated with about FGM.
  Perfect opportunity has just arisen.
  
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  April 15, 2017 7:54pm
  - mikenmild
    
    Why?
    
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    April 15, 2017 8:03pm
Happychappy

Has anyone told the media that now Landlords have got a register for bad tenants and they can check it before leasing to families that need housing is another reason people live in garages. While I agree we have a housing shortage I also are sick to death of the Labour Party and the poor continually blaming everyone but themselves for the predicament that they are in. THERE are places out there to rent but you won’t pay the price because it is expensive and you choose to live in a garage so man up and stop blaming other people.
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April 15, 2017 8:49am
- Southern Raider
  
  I think it is disgusting for you to suggest a solo mother of multiple children, with a random live in gang member partner, who hosts occasional P fuelled parties should not be given adequate tax payer funded housing.
  
  It’s Easter. Shame on you
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:06am
- artemisia
  
  Hmmm, I wonder how the Welly based Renters United group is going with exhorting hundreds of members to request their tenancy record from TINZ.
  
  Their intention being to obstruct by chewing up adminstrator time.
  
  Meantime landlord members of TINZ can get rental and credit records quickly and easily.
  
  Make me wonder how many of the so-called homeless are on the TINZ register, and not in a good way.
  
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  April 15, 2017 12:12pm
- cmm
  
  So what is really wrong with living in a garage?
  
  A garage is better accommodation than 90% of the world get.
  
  If you’re living on the generosity of others then surely that’s more than good enough?
  
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  April 15, 2017 6:04pm
Southern Raider

Another day another senseless killing by a Palestinian

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/91594874/palestinian-fatally-stabs-british-woman-on-jerusalem-train
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April 15, 2017 9:08am
stigie

Hypocrites…..Of course its different when the left do it..?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11838502
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April 15, 2017 9:10am
- Happychappy
  
  And Labour don’t mind the rich prick when they need help. If you can’t run your Party with the help of Union money how would could you expect to run NZ. They have a Leader that has shown that with the money he has earned over his working life with top jobs has nothing to show for it and Labour being broke this is not a time to hand them the financial purse strings of our Country.
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:33am
pejhay

Remind me again, why do we have days that shops can’t open and you can’t buy things like alcohol ?
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April 15, 2017 9:20am
- SGA
  
  It’s a vestige of more religious times :-).
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:25am
  - pejhay
    
    But surely in our more inclusive times, this is now offensive to greater and greater parts of our population who either have different beliefs, or like me, no beliefs…
    
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    April 15, 2017 10:00am
    - mikenmild
      
      No, letting you go shopping on Good Friday imperils our foundational values.
      
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      April 15, 2017 10:02am
    - SGA
      
      You’re probably right, but I can gently go along with it for historical or heritage sort of reasons – it gets more diluted as time goes by (a kiss is just a kiss, … sorry, grasshopper mind).
      As someone who is non-religious, I’m expected to show some tolerance of other people’s religious beliefs 😉
      
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      April 15, 2017 10:20am
      - fernglas
        
        Yes, but when those beliefs get between me and a well-earned pint, something has to give. My thirst, or 2000 years of Christianity? No brainer.
        
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        April 15, 2017 11:22am
      - SGA
        
        If only there was a way to put beer in bottles or cans and take it home in case of such emergencies. 🙂
        
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        April 15, 2017 11:35am
- mikenmild
  
  Because the government is opposed to letting businesses be responsible for their own decisions?
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:28am
  - stephieboy
    
    Holy Friday did not stop our local Chinese and Indians getting out in force for business and wheeler dealing .
    
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    April 15, 2017 9:38am
    - kowtow
      
      Good Friday. Twat.
      
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      April 15, 2017 10:19am
      - SGA
        
        I thought I’d heard it also called Holy Friday somewhere at some time . So I looked it up…
        
        Good Friday is a Christian holiday commemorating the crucifixion of Jesus Christ … snip … It is also known as Holy Friday, Great Friday, Black Friday, or Easter Friday. (Wikipedia)
        
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        April 15, 2017 10:33am
      - Kimbo
        
        or Easter Friday. (Wikipedia)
        
        I had a vicar, now a bishop, who was quite insistent – and technically right – that as “Easter” refers to the resurrection of Christ, it applies to no other day than…the Sunday. So it is not even “Easter Sunday” but “Easter”, and there is no “Easter Friday/Saturday/Monday”. “Holy Week” applies to the collective period, with the Monday (and Tuesday) holidays after tacked on for secular reasons to extend the period.
        
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        April 15, 2017 1:26pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Passover
        
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        April 15, 2017 2:49pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Passover
        
        No, as per my post yesterday, even though the Last Supper/institution of the Lord’s Supper, and also the Crucifixion of Christ occurred on Pesach/Passover, and then the Resurrection during Matzo/The feast of Unleavened Bread, and on the same day as the korban omer/sheaf of barley wave offering.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_offering
        
        …by papal decree and for brand differentiation once it was clear the two faiths were distinct and separate, Easter is now determined by a lunar calendar so that it never occurs on the same day as Passover, although they do occur around the same time of year.
        
        Even Christian observance of Shavuot/Weeks or Pentecost is determined 50 days from Easter, not the Jewish Passover. But again, they occur at around the same time. But for Jews it celebrates the giving of the Torah/Law of Moses, for Christians the giving of the Holy Spirit.
        
        There is no Christian equivalent to Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement (although the season of Lent and then Good Friday incorporates much of the theology), nor Sukkot/Tabernacles/Booths around September/October. And Rosh Hashanah/New Year, celebrated 10 days before Yom Kippur is at a different time in the Christian calendar.
        
        The non-Mosaic feast of Channukah/Cleansing of the Temple is around the same time as Christmas, but there is no Christian equivalent of Purim/Lots, which is around February/March. Just as, hardly surprising, there is no Jewish equivalent of Advent, with celebrates the distinctive Christian belief of the Incarnation (of God in and through the person of Jesus Christ)
        
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        April 15, 2017 5:19pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thanks Kimbo, that was genuinely interesting! I knew that papal decree was used to put Easter on the lunar calendar, but for some reason thought that Passover was similarly lunar. Appreciate it.
        
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        April 16, 2017 11:50am
      - Kimbo
        
        I over-simplified in my previous post. The Jewish calendar is also lunar (28 days), but with extra months added in occasionally to keep the months at the same time of year:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar
        
        Hence Pesach?Passover is in Spring, Shavuot/Pentecost/Weeks is fixed to the middle of summer and that is the time of the grain harvest, and Sukkot/Tabernacles at the end of Autumn is the time of the olive and grape harvest.
        
        Easter, however, is timed to match the full moon around the time of the March equinox:
        
        https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/determining-easter-date.html
        
        So in their own way both Pesach/Passover and Good Friday utilise a combination of solar and lunar markers, but different ones so they don’t coincide.
        
        Also, I misspoke in my last post. Chanukah is literally “the Festival of Lights”, that commemorates the miraculous burning of the temple menorah that had run out of oil when the temple was cleansed following the desecration of Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 BC(E). This eminent Jewish theologian explains as follows: 😉
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCNAnp2QAI
        
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        April 16, 2017 12:06pm
duggledog

Yeah that’s the thing Southern Raider.

People (read: mothers with kids) are living in cars because

A: Landlords are onto the shit tenants now. They know who they are and won’t rent to them, unless it’s at a massively inflated casual rate. Stories of hell tenants are legion in NZ as for years it’s been acceptable to trash a rich prick’s house. They even made a long running TV show about it ‘Renters’

B: Housing NZ have finally disallowed feral tenants from reapplying for another state house the day after they get kicked out for bad behaviour or non payment of fines.

C: The maraes are reluctant to take the (overwhelmingly Maori) shitbags either. They might get relief for a night or two but that’s it.

Ergo, into the car you go.

As a footnote, distinguish between the homeless and those who sleep in cars because it’s a cheap, excellent way to accommodate yourself when you’ve come to Auckland for short term work on a building site or wherever.

If I was 25 again, I’d have no problem sleeping on a mattress in the back of the station wagon to save myself three hundy a week.
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April 15, 2017 9:24am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Golly gosh duggledog!
  Are you saying that actions are starting to have consequences? and that bad behavior is starting to be penalized by society more nowadays?
  
  //
  
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  April 15, 2017 9:34am
- VicParking
  
  The Mayor of Whanganui sleeps in his car when he makes trips to Wellington. Maybe his mayoral salary, his legal practice profits, his working wifes salary and his accomidation allowance arn’t enough to live on.
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11837928
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:30am
Kabull

I see there is another puff-piece on the Andy/Jacinda show in the Dom Post this morning (presumably its in other Fairfax dailies as well). Talk about developing a cult following …
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April 15, 2017 9:38am
- VicParking
  
  I thought 7% Andy’s grey tinge has gone. The article has confirmed he is dyeing his hair. Trying to catch back to Jacinda.
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:32am
stephieboy

Donald Trump the Prince of Peace and the power of diplomacy ,

“President Trump on Wednesday said he would not label China a currency manipulator, contradicting one of the biggest economic promises he made on the campaign trail.

Trump told the Wall Street Journal that he had changed his mind because China is not currently manipulating its currency, adding that he hoped to enlist China’s help on containing the nuclear threat from North Korea.”…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/12/trump
-says-he-will-not-label-china-currency-manipulator-reversing
-campaign-promise/
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April 15, 2017 9:44am
mikenmild

I see the Russkies are feighning ignorance of the purge of gay men in Chechnya:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/91595303/no-reliable-information-on-reported-killings-of-gay-chechen-men-says-kremlin
As for the Chechens, they simply deny that there are any gay men in Chechnya.
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April 15, 2017 9:49am
Peter

I don’t know why we don’t build large “holiday camp” environments for these feral scumbags. Perhaps a Marae type environment

Feed and accomodate them and take it all directly out of their benefit. Offer a way out of the cycle by directly educating the kids (the parent is almost certainly a lost cause)

The root cause of the problem is people too thick or damaged to handle choice.

These people need a lot more direct supervision.

It’s kinder than leaving them to it.
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April 15, 2017 9:53am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Tilt slab concrete housing. No paint, no floor coverings. For those who have proved they can’t live like evolved humans.
  
  I think we would be doing their kids a favour if we put them into state care. At least they would get fed, clothed and educated, and likely suffer a lot less abuse.
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:18pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Das vidaniya 1967 Russki
    
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    April 15, 2017 2:54pm
duggledog

Stephie god you’re such a one-dimensional thinker. Use your logic.

I posted here (along with a good few others) that Trump would say what he needed to say to get into the White House. Then moderate. Which is exactly what he did and has done.

It’s all about winning, the deal etc. He is feinting and jabbing like a boxer who is having punches thrown at him continually by the Media Party and the Establishment.

Nobody knows what he’ll do next and that’s the ideal position.

But don’t take anything at face value. He will be tackling the policies he platformed on in other ways. Remember he has an adviser who is from this land we call home, who knows how to get things done.

John Key campaigned on many things he never ended up doing, yet incremental radicalism means NZ is far different from the country we had in 2008.
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April 15, 2017 9:56am
- mikenmild
  
  How different? Are you suggesting that all politicians should make empty promises?
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:04am
  - Viking2
    
    They do. Don’t you remember.
    
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    April 15, 2017 3:13pm
    - stephieboy
      
      V2 , not on the scale of Trump !
      
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      April 15, 2017 3:17pm
- itstricky
  
  Stephie god you’re such a one-dimensional thinker.
  
  Aha, that’s what we call it now. Telling lies is ‘alternate facts’. Backing out of promises is ‘using four dimensional thinking’ !
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:13am
  - mikenmild
    
    ‘Aspirational goals’
    
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    April 15, 2017 12:24pm
- 4077th
  
  “Nobody knows what he’ll do next and that’s the ideal position.”
  
  I for one would like to see him rid millions of North Korean’s of a demented dictator. Swiftly and concisely.
  
  Happy Easter Kimmy..BOOM!
  
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  April 15, 2017 1:22pm
KevinH

Has anyone heard Kim Joung-un speak.? His military government is making all sorts of threats, even the Chinese are getting excited, but the man himself hasn’t uttered a word in public.
Perhaps he has an unmanly high squeaky voice, the sort that makes you laugh when you hear it.
Anyways it’s a war of words at the moment and may escalate depending on who shoots first.
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April 15, 2017 9:57am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He speaks OK.
  He begins talking at 4:59 on this clip
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNaHMXN12ek
  (opening of the 7th Workers’ Party Congress 2016)
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:31am
Chuck Bird

I think Casey will have a hard time with this. Many businesses have dress codes. My local pub will not allow gang patches. Most woman do not wear burkas and I believe the majority of Muslims do not wear burkas.

Auckland Councillor Cathy Casey lays human rights complaint over shop’s sign

“It looks as though the business is basically flouting the Human Rights Act. I’ve checked the Act and it says you can’t discriminate on the grounds of religion and the grounds of sex.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11838605
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April 15, 2017 10:09am
- VicParking
  
  Already been investigated two years ago.
  Nothing done
  No story here.
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:34am
Hugh Pavletich

The housing issue …

… Will Nick Smith’s incompetence finish off the National led Government 23 September ? …

Audrey Young: ‘Victim of our success’ excuses wearing thin – Business – NZ Herald News

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11838631

In the summer of 2013, John Key returned from his holiday in Hawaii with a plan for housing.

He sacked Housing Minister Phil Heatley – and Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson – from Cabinet, reinstated former ACC minister Nick Smith (after suspending him for helping a friend in her ACC claim) and made him Housing Minister.

It seemed a good idea at the time. Housing affordability may not have been in crisis back then but it was emerging as a problem and Smith was one of the more experienced ministers. … read more via hyperlink above …

Bernard Hickey of Newsroom reported Thursday …

https://pro.newsroom.co.nz/articles/1629-newsroom-pro-s-8-things-at-8-trolling-millennials-is-easy-defamation-retrials-loom

7. Just in case you missed it…

One curious coda to the RMA debate that concluded last week was that the Opposition parties plus ACT and United Future all voted again during the third reading debate for amendments that would have abolished Rural Urban Growth Boundaries and allowed the financing of infrastructure bonds paid for with targeted rates.

The amendments were defeated by National and the Maori Party.

The irony of a Government that has railed against restrictions on land development by councils voting against removing those restrictions should be noted. And also that the proposal for infrastructure bonds was backed by the right-leaning New Zealand Initiative and voted for by the Greens and Labour. Strange times indeed.

Now check out the Gone Gone Going section of …

http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/
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April 15, 2017 10:29am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Hugh, I hear that Liabore’s coffers are so dry that they’re now targeting ‘Rich Pricks’ for donations.
  Have you coughed up yet?
  
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  April 15, 2017 10:46am
  - Hugh Pavletich
    
    Capt Mainwaring … I would need you to throw the money in my direction first though !
    
    This needs to be read as well …
    
    New Zea;ands housing consensus: Where is the political leadership ? … Not PC
    
    http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/auckland-worlds-fourth-hardest-to-buy.html
    
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    April 15, 2017 11:31am
    - Hugh Pavletich
      
      HOUSING SUPPLY CHOKEHOLD IS SELF-INFLICTED … DR ALAN MORAN … AUSTRALIAn REGULATION ECONOMICS / HERALD SUN
      
      Alan Moran: Housing supply chokehold is self-inflicted | Herald Sun
      … google search title if blocked …
      
      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/alan-moran-housing-supply-chokehold-is-selfinflicted/news-story/b1bf2b8b0020a2be09de49922eff8e45
      
      FOR the past 30 years, Australian house price increases have vastly outpaced general inflation. We are talking here of standard homes, not those in the inner suburbs, still less harbourside mansions.
      
      In the Australia of the 1980s, it took three times the median household income to buy the average house. Today it takes six times the median income (in Sydney and Melbourne respectively it’s over 12 and nine times median household incomes).
      
      The basic reason why prices have risen so strongly is because government policies have restricted supply of housing land, both on city edges and for urban redevelopment. …
      
      … concluding …
      
      … Existing policies divert household savings away from productive investment uses.
      
      Over half of households’ $11,000 billion of assets are in dwellings.
      
      Because regulatory measures have doubled their underlying value, this means we are wasting $3000 billion of savings.
      
      Placed in perspective, that’s equivalent to 10 times the total asset base of the electricity supply industry.
      
      Clearly, we could be so much more affluent if we could eradicate the wealth-sapping waste caused by government housing policies.
      
      Alan Moran is with Regulation Economics … https://www.regulationeconomics.com/
      
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      April 15, 2017 8:21pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        … NOW FOR A DOSE OF REALITY .. AND REAL MARKET PRICING ! …
        
        Meantime folks … an update from the Lago Mar development, Texas City, Houston – Galveston …
        
        Residential Boom Bolsters Texas City – Houston Chronicle / Construction Equipment Guide
        
        http://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/residential-boom-bolsters-texas-city/33599
        
        Texas City, better known for petrochemical landscapes than landscaped subdivisions, is poised for an unprecedented growth spurt as the region’s residential boom continues its southward advance.
        
        The Houston Chronicle reports the transformation of a vast expanse of interstate-fronting prairie into a mixed-use commercial hub began with a fancy outlet mall and a sprawling Buc-ee’s. It continues with the 3,300-acre Lago Mar subdivision, now in the early stages, that eventually will add up to 7,000 homes on the edge of the Galveston Bayside town. To top it off, construction of an adjacent amusement park is now under way.
        
        Texas City officials predict that by the time Lago Mar is filled up, an estimated 15 years from now, the development will have added as many as 12,000 residents to the city’s current population of about 48,000. By comparison, the city added about 7,000 people between 1990 and 2017. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
        Lago Mar | Homes for Sale near League City, TX
        
        http://lagomarintexascity.com/?gclid=CNrnq6StidMCFYSYvAodqIgMDw
        
        Lago Mar in Texas City, TX, New Homes & Floor Plans by CastleRock Communities
        
        https://www.newhomesource.com/communitydetail/builder-9404/community-96386#refer=GPPC600&gclid=CLzL-M6tidMCFdgGKgodD6cLlg
        
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        April 15, 2017 8:49pm
      - Hugh Pavletich
        
        Annika Smethurst: Housing affordability is a serious problem and politicians know it | Daily Telegraph
        
        http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/annika-smethurst-housing-affordability-is-a-serious-problem-and-politicians-know-it/news-story/a2db129645ad097dc7a231188f962939
        
        IT was meant to be the policy that proved the Government was listening: a plan to address the “pinch point” of housing affordability by unlocking some retirement savings to help young Australians save enough money for a deposit on their first homes.
        
        Politicians, particularly in marginal city seats, know housing affordability is a serious problem. The rate of home ownership is falling, house prices continue to climb and the issue for the Government is not subsiding.
        
        But after a week of leaks and damaging public debate which saw the frontbench split, the centrepiece of the Government’s housing affordability plan appears to be on life support. … read more via hyperlink above …
        
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        April 16, 2017 10:53am
VicParking

The failing newspaper had a very long story this morning
Based on the following “Whanganui stands to lose 73 state houses despite 34 families waiting for housing and 231 people classified as homeless, claims Labour.”
On and on it went running the government down and then in the last paragraph this :
UPDATE: Housing New Zealand says it has no intention to reduce state houses by 73 in Whanganui. 
A HNZ spokesman said the numbers provided to Labour were out of date and were superseded by instructions from Government late last year.

The only reason for the story was to run the government down and hope it sunk in before the end and they stopped reading.
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April 15, 2017 10:40am
- sooty
  
  Yep! MSM out electionering all ready. Orders from the union/labour.
  
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  April 15, 2017 12:18pm
- 4077th
  
  Another master stroke from Twatford no doubt. I bet you a dollar to knob of goat poo tomorrows headline will be along the lines of…”Some people with Chinese sounding names have bought some houses in Whanganui”.
  
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  April 15, 2017 1:32pm
- VicParking
  
  Another thing that pisses me off.
  By Labours definition when a state house is sold it is burnt to the ground and the land seeded in salt.
  The house is sold and a new family moves in, either as owners or tennants. The government does not burn the money, it uses it to build a new house.
  Where there was one house we now have two.
  Not according to Phil Chingford however.
  
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  April 15, 2017 3:12pm
  - mikenmild
    
    So if the government sold all of the state houses, the number of house would double?
    
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    April 15, 2017 3:16pm
mikenmild

Something has gone wrong with the ads on this blog. I’m getting invitations from the Book Depository rather than dating sites.
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April 15, 2017 10:43am
- VicParking
  
  Just for you:
  http://www.fishmeetfish.com/profile/slaveweed
  
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  April 15, 2017 11:25am
stigie

Its all ok Milky, i would start to worry if one was getting an invitation to Hagley Park on a full moon ole chap..?
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April 15, 2017 11:08am
- mikenmild
  
  I think we can leave that to starboard and D4J.
  
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  April 15, 2017 12:25pm
  - starboard
    
    Ppfft..rich coming from the glory hole queen.
    
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    April 15, 2017 2:03pm
Jack5

Very good article on Douglas Myers by Brian Gaynor in the Hooerald today.

From the controversial taking over of the family company through to Myers’s greatest coup – buying up Australian brewing assets.

Well done, Mr Gaynor.

It’s not easy to find this article negotiating the Hooerald web site. I don’t agree with the paranoid who will no doubt think this is because of Lefty online staff hiding it. Whatever, here is the link:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/brian-gaynor/news/article.cfm?a_id=14&objectid=11838495
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April 15, 2017 12:36pm
virtualmark

Remember how last month the Republicans voted to change the law to allow ISPs to sell their user’s internet browsing histories?

Now there are groups crowd-funding to buy the browsing histories of GOP congressmen & senators so they can publish them on the inter-webs.

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/326462-internet-users-raise-more-than-200000-to-buy-lawmakers-browsing-histories
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April 15, 2017 12:52pm
- mikenmild
  
  Sad!
  
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  April 15, 2017 12:54pm
kowtow

More do gooder madness.

“Friday’s rescues come a day after a shipwreck left at least 97 migrants feared drowned off Libya.”

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/04/frenzied-rescues-save-2000-asylum-seekers-170414203519260.html
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April 15, 2017 12:53pm
- simpleton1
  
  Makes one wonder not only who funds the NGOs, and how that money flows, but also if there is a monies connection through the people smugglers to some of the ‘do gooders’. Might explain some of the madness.
  http://www.ansa.it/english/news/2017/04/12/paradox-third-of-migrants-rescued-by-ngos-frontex-3_59b2d8fe-5a27-4af5-bdd0-44e5f1a84646.html
  
  ‘Paradox’ third of migrants rescued by NGOs – Frontex (3)
  NGOs have been accused of helping migrant traffickers by going very close to the Libyan coast in response to migrant phone calls.
  
  [European Union border agency] Frontex chief Leggeri said that in several cases Frontex had found that the smugglers had given migrants the phone numbers of NGOs.
  
  Leggeri really does not get it? yeah right! Nudge, nudge; wink, wink. Say no more, say no more.
  
  Australia just simply returned the refugees/immigrants to the coast they set sail from.
  The numbers that set out simply dried up, as it proved to be a waste of money paying people smugglers to try for Australia.
  
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  April 15, 2017 1:37pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Helen’s 8 years at the UN is over.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/328866/un-bids-helen-clark-adieu-with-multiple-events

I wonder what retirement holds for her?
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April 15, 2017 2:07pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Can we crowd fund a retirement villa for her somewhere nice and remote from NZ?
  
  Or she could re-enter NZ politics; go on the National party list, she’d fit right in.
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:20pm
  - sooty
    
    Auckland islands!
    
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    April 15, 2017 4:40pm
- Brigitte
  
  Isn’t she next up for the RNZ past-PMs interview. Perhaps she might give us a few clues so long as the right questions are asked.
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:31pm
- starboard
  
  Probably maintaining her plethora of rental properties. Chardonnay socialist supreme.
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:33pm
- stigie
  
  She might spend more time with her husband Peter and pretend to attend to his manly needs..?//
  
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  April 15, 2017 2:34pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    What “manly needs” are you referring to Stigie?
    
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    April 15, 2017 4:42pm
- stephieboy
  
  Maggy Wassilieff. out of interest do you beleive the many conspiracy theories about “Helengrad ” ?
  
  http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/02/17/world-government-a-former-conspiracy-myth-is-now-emerging-from-the-shadows/
  
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  April 15, 2017 3:20pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Dear stephieboy
    
    do you beleive the many conspiracy theories about “Helengrad ” ?
    
    Not being aware of even a single conspiracy theory about “Helengrad”, I eagerly clicked onto your link..
    imagine my disappointment, when I discover that the article continues on at yet another link…
    and truth, be told, I couldn’t be bovvered.
    
    For your own edification…. Helen was my Minister in my last Public Service job… I liked her.
    
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    April 15, 2017 4:39pm
    - nasska
      
      ….”Helen was my Minister in my last Public Service job… I liked her.”…..
      
      Wash your mouth out with soap & sit in the corner until playtime.
      
      We don’t tolerate that sort of language round here! 🙂
      
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      April 15, 2017 6:09pm
      - mikenmild
        
        She is actually a lot more personable than one would expect from the TV – most politicians are.
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:11pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Oh don’t worry nasska,
        
        I’m sure the lefties here can keep telling me I’m a mad old bat spouting bullshit…
        It must confuse them that not only was I a loyal PSA member, but I got appointment to a Conservation Board under a Labour Gvt.
        
        Goodness, what nonsense was I responsible for?
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:22pm
    - stephieboy
      
      Maggy W , Bravo !
      
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      April 15, 2017 9:05pm
mikenmild

Do people who deliver political pamphlets get told to ignore signs that request no junk mail?
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April 15, 2017 3:20pm
- sooty
  
  Only the left?
  
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  April 15, 2017 4:38pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Depends which party is featured on the pamphlet. In the case of Labour or Green the answer is no.
  
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  April 15, 2017 4:45pm
  - mikenmild
    
    You think only some politicians would be arrogant enough to not realise their missives are junk mail?
    
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    April 15, 2017 4:53pm
    - Kimbo
      
      Don’t know what it is like in Wellington, but here in Auckland the Council sends out “information” every few months on what they have been “doing” (with ratepayer money) that is nothing more than an exercise in re-election campaigning, all under the nonsense guise of “community empowerment” and “inclusion”.
      
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      April 15, 2017 5:56pm
- calendar girl
  
  I don’t know. But I do know that most of the outfits that deliver ‘Community’ or ‘Suburban’ newspapers are instructed to ignore “No Junk Mail” requests.
  
  Apparently the only message of that type that they take notice of is “Addressed Mail Only”. But I can’t find signs in the shops displaying that message!
  
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  April 15, 2017 5:53pm
  - mikenmild
    
    I don’t mind getting the newspapers. It’s just the politicians who appear to feel privileged.
    
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    April 15, 2017 5:55pm
    - calendar girl
      
      I don’t usually mind the ‘newspapers’ either, except when I’m away from home for several days, whether for work or on a break. Then ‘newspapers’ sticking out of the letter-box must begin to look like neon “Welcome” signs to prospective burglars.
      
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      April 15, 2017 7:52pm
Viking2

“The government bailed out a Pakeha finance company to the tune of $1.2 billion. They can easily spend 10 per cent of that to give the country’s biggest iwi a kick start,” he concluded.

(hich is true and before that the BNZ and since the AMI. and many others who were not insured etc.).

Mana leader Hone Harawira is “getting hoha” (annoyed) with people blaming Ngapuhi for not settling their Treaty claim and using it to fix the North’s economic and social deprivation.

“Stop blaming Ngapuhi,” he said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503402&objectid=11837677

Makes sense when you read the article.
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April 15, 2017 4:55pm
mikenmild

More depressing news from Jesusland – fundie nutcases want science teachers to be free to teach creationism and other bullshit:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oklahoma-science-education_us_58efa19fe4b0b9e9848a1837?66&amp%3Bncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
6 2
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April 15, 2017 6:13pm
- nasska
  
  Absolutely amazing. Here we are in the 21st Century with Godnutters cutting bits & pieces off kids while screwing up their minds with ancient hocus pocus.
  
  “The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason.”
  -Benjamin Franklin
  
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  April 15, 2017 6:27pm
All_on_Red

How do Muslims believe the world was created?
Are they creationists?
1 1
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April 15, 2017 6:23pm
- mikenmild
  
  So far as I know, no religion is anti-science, per se. Some Muslims are creationists, anti-evolutionist or climate change denialists, but these rejections of reality are not confined to any particular creed.
  So far as creationism is concerned, I think it is fair to say that this bullshit is strongest in Jesusland.
  
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  April 15, 2017 6:27pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Silly Muslims. They should get on the Climate gravy wagon. They’d get trillions in funding. Might be able to afford trousers then.
    You can imagine the climate report from Afghanistan.
    ‘Today it was hot, same as yesterday and my modelling shows it will be hot tomorrow ”
    Trillions I tell you.
    
    6 0
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    April 15, 2017 6:35pm
    - stephieboy
      
      All on Wed, an invitation for you to visit the Kentucky Creation Museum ,
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uaz9Ks338c4
      
      Snigger ..
      
      1 10
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      April 15, 2017 7:00pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘All on Wed’
        Didn’t you complain about Jazz calling you “Stephiephaggot” and get him a Strike for not using your non de plume correctly?
        Gee, I’d hate to get you a Strike. It’s a month next time
        Bwahahahahahaaha
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:11pm
      - stephieboy
        
        May I confess that the “Wed “is used to denote that in my humble opnion you often strike me as being a bit of a thicko .
        
        Happy ?
        
        0 4
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        April 15, 2017 9:15pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You’re welcome to your humble opinion but it will still get you a Strike. Especially in light of your hypocrisy. So go for it. We’ll all be glad to see you gone.
        And you can talk about thick.
        Kiwiblogs Dumbest Commentator.
        Probably the most laughed at idiot on here.
        Lol.
        
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        April 15, 2017 9:33pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        See? Here’s an example. Just one of many EVERY day.
        Why do you stay here given how hated you are? Soooo funny
        “Viking2
        None for u stephie. They are just as stupid as u.”
        
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        April 15, 2017 9:40pm
  - Kimbo
    
    Yep, Scott, a regular in these pages, God bless him, is a six day 6,000 years ago ~~creatonist~~ (sorry, my mistake, they changed their name in the US to try and circumvent a Supreme Court decision that ruled it was an unconstitutional breach of the wall of separation between church and state) Intelligent Design proponent, who thinks it should be taught in our school science curriculum.
    
    Whatever threat we may face in the future from religious extremists, I think the clear and imminent danger is a bit closer to home, and already among us. But on a genuine and brighter note, Scott and I have made our peace and are no longer blog belligerents. I may question his judgement on some things, but no longer his character. Although I still don’t think he has been sufficiently courageous and rigourous in putting his mental presumptions and prejudices to the test – but that can and does apply to all of us at some point, especially in matters of personal faith/religion/ideology/politics, etc. And on the matter of his judgement, Scott did predict the Trump win from along way out, and stuck to it despite the criticism of some of us…
    
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    April 15, 2017 6:41pm
    - nasska
      
      What a load of mealy mouthed crap. Anyone who believes the religious garbage he pushes is stark raving insane!
      
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      April 15, 2017 6:44pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Scott insane? No, he is very sane from what I have read, although his views are no longer mainstream. But when it comes to his zeal, while it takes a different form, it is no more unbalanced than an ideologue like…you 😉
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:50pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”no more unbalanced than an ideologue like…you”….
        
        Prove the supernatural exists outside both of your unbalanced, gullible minds.
        
        Then I’ll consider your diagnosis.
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:58pm
      - mikenmild
        
        I should have thought for nasska to be an ideologue he would need to have some ideology…
        
        3 2
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        April 15, 2017 7:02pm
      - Kimbo
        
        What is the type and standard of proof that you require, bearing in mind that “science” measures the observable and testable material world and physical phenomena, whereas of its very nature the supernatural (I’ve even emphasised it so you get the point) cannot be measured?
        
        Let’s try and meet in between, shall we? Do you think there is such a thing as a non-material/meta-physical realm?
        
        2 3
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        April 15, 2017 7:03pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Well, mikey, let’s see how this one pans out (time permitting – gotta do an Indian takeaway soon) to kick the tyres on nasska and the tacit ideology thing.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:09pm
      - nasska
        
        ….”whereas supernatural (I’ve even emphasised it so you get the point) does not”…..
        
        If you can’t prove it, regardless of your excuse, it doesn’t exist. If it doesn’t exist only a madman would live as if there was a deity.
        
        No banana!
        
        4 0
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        April 15, 2017 7:11pm
      - nasska
        
        …..”Do you think there is such a thing as a non-material/meta-physical realm?”….
        
        No.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:13pm
      - mikenmild
        
        ‘Supernatural’ simply means beyond the natural world. As the natural world, or universe, is all there is, and all there will ever be, ‘supernatural’ is the same as ‘my imagination’.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:14pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Pfft. I didn’t say I can prove it. I didn’t say I can’t. Yet. I’m just trying to find out if your criteria for proof (remember, you issued the imperative “prove…”) fits the (alleged) penomena. So a bit too soon to be chortling “no cigar” me thinks. Although your haste to proclaim victory, no-compromise ability to misread the question, and fit it into your existing mental structure of reference when it doesn’t fit looks suspiciously like the mentality of…an ideologue. 😉
        
        3 2
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        April 15, 2017 7:15pm
      - mikenmild
        
        Douglas Adams, it seems to be, put it in the most simplest, and most amusing, way:
        
        “I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
        “But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don’t. QED”
        “Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
        “Oh, that was easy,” says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
        
        3 2
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        April 15, 2017 7:18pm
      - Kimbo
        
        You do know what super-natural means, don’t you? “Beyond nature”. Therefore, as science deals exclusively with that which is natural/physical, of necessity, the supernatural cannot be verified scientifically.
        
        So what is you criteria and standard of proof?
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:22pm
      - nasska
        
        ….”So what is you criteria and standard of proof?”…..
        
        Sight, feeling, taste, smell & touch will do for starters.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:30pm
      - Kimbo
        
        As the natural world, or universe, is all there is
        
        You don’t think that is the statement of an ideologue? Not even an open door of the caveat, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs”?
        
        And is “logic” natural? I know it is practiced by physical beings, but that is not the same thing. It “exists” in its own realm. Or do you think it is purely an arbitrary construct? And how about the various branches of mathematics? Yes, they take physical forms. But what about, say, algebra?
        
        Or do you really mean the metaphysical does not exist, at all?
        
        3 2
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        April 15, 2017 7:32pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Sight, feeling, taste, smell & touch will do for starters
        
        So that’s the five senses. So still in the realm of…science. Again, logically, how can a discipline dedicated to the exclusive study of that which is natural be used to verify and measure the…supernatural? So hard for an ideologue to let go of their demands of how things are and should be, in spite of logic and reality, isn’t it nasska? 😉
        
        Any way, gotta go – family commitments await.
        
        3 2
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        April 15, 2017 7:36pm
      - nasska
        
        ….”Or do you really mean the metaphysical does not exist, at all?”….
        
        You’re on to it. Look……if believing in a Skydaddy makes you happy then fine.
        
        Just keep it to yourself…..like a social disease. 🙂
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:38pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Kimbo:
        
        I didn’t say I can prove it. I didn’t say I can’t.
        
        I advise against sitting on the fence – you’ll get a splinter or 2 in the bum!
        
        Just say “I can’t” and Nasska will shout you a bowl of lentil and mung bean soup as a gesture of Easter goodwill!
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:52pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      Kimbo:
      
      Scott and I have made our peace and are no longer blog belligerents
      
      It was fun while it lasted!
      
      Do you still have Chuck Bird in your sights? Chuck called me a horrible name yesterday (“Mr Anonymous bottom feeder”). I’m mortally wounded!
      
      6 0
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      April 15, 2017 6:50pm
      - Kimbo
        
        Chuck Bird? Yes, and I saw that, the humourless, pompous idiot – although dementia was probably the cause of his inability to take a joke at his own expense. Flame war at every opportunity. The bastard was questioning the sexuality of Catriona MacLennan and harassing her if she was a lesbian on Facebook because of her views on rape laws, so I’m hoping he ends up like Penny Bright – on the wrong side of the law.
        
        And even though the thread is out of date and no one seems to have read it, now DifferentPerspective is on my “engage with extreme prejudice list” as per an exchange on this thread:
        
        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/04/protecting_teens_from_forced_marriage.html
        
        But on a brighter note, itstricky has promised to endorse Kimbo’s law when he can, so as far as I am concerned, he moved immediately from “troll” to “paragon of virtue” status. They say every man has his price, but in my case it is surprising how little it tales to turn me into a whore! 😉
        
        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/04/general_debate_9_april_2017.html/comment-page-1#comment-1907667
        
        http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/04/general_debate_10_april_2017.html
        
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        April 15, 2017 6:55pm
      - mikenmild
        
        You really should quit the ‘Kimbo’s Law’ bullshit. It just makes you seem like an egocentric blowhard. Just saying.
        
        6 4
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        April 15, 2017 6:57pm
      - Kimbo
        
        “Seem”?! No “seem” about it. Mikey, you got my number! 😉
        
        And you were just teasing me with that unnecessary adverb, “really”, weren’t you? Plus “just saying” used to be my previous overused signature, you thieving bastard! 😉
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:06pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kimbo
        
        You really should quit the ‘Kimbo’s Law’ bullshit.
        
        I reckon if you keep reminding us all about Kimbo’s Law, at least once a day, for another 6 months:
        
        1. No-one, except you, will be able to correctly recount the law, and
        2. the majority of us will score poorly in a test (devised by me & thee) to identify all the adverbs in a piece of prose.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:39pm
Nostradamus

Claire Trevett: Labour wants to fill an election war chest

A fortnight ago, Labour President Nigel Haworth launched his “President’s Club” for well-heeled donors. It has various ‘tiers’ of donor. There are the common bronze mob (who donate $1000-$3000 a year), silver ($3000-$5000 a year) and gold ($5,000 – $10,000). The best of them all are the Platinum donors who give more than $10,000 a year. See it as a Frequent Flyers scheme if you like, and if you fly with Labour, you get an ‘I Can’t Believe It’s Not Platinum’ fake bronze, silver, gold or platinum fern badge and invites to various dos such as the occasional drinkies and policy announcements.

I wonder how many bloggers and commenters at The Standard will become platinum members.
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April 15, 2017 6:45pm
- mikenmild
  
  Maybe there is a ‘copper’ class I could be in if I donate up to $10.
  
  4 2
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  April 15, 2017 6:56pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Come on Mikenmild. Dig deeper and make your donation count! Think of all the drinkies and policy annoucements you’ll get in return for your kind donation!
    
    4 0
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    April 15, 2017 6:57pm
    - mikenmild
      
      I’ll give them a hundred bucks if they promise to legalise all psychoactive substances.
      
      4 4
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      April 15, 2017 7:00pm
      - nasska
        
        Get them to throw in assisted suicide & I’ll buy a membership. 🙂
        
        5 0
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        April 15, 2017 7:15pm
      - mikenmild
        
        That is surely the way to go. Sell political policy to the highest bidders.
        
        5 1
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        April 15, 2017 7:19pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Nasska:
        
        Get them to throw in assisted suicide
        
        You might have to settle for a compromise “gay rights for whales and sheep” policy? Even Johnboy might vote for that!
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:19pm
      - mikenmild
        
        How about a new political party that outsources policy to the masses. Log on to the website and upvote or downvote policy proposals. Sure to be a winner.
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:27pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Mikenmild:
        
        Log on to the website and upvote or downvote policy proposals
        
        That’s a great suggestion. We should ask William of Ockham and Penny to give direct democracy a go. The only possible downside is that their policy prescriptions might quickly become “hidden due to low comment rating”. Then again would that be a bad thing?
        
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        April 15, 2017 7:34pm
      - mikenmild
        
        What you need to do is charge a fairly high membership fee to join, and thus have your say in determining policy. So the party crowd sources funding and policy at the same time.
        
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        April 15, 2017 8:00pm
  - sooty
    
    No. There is a brass class. As in # brass rassoo #.
    
    4 0
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    April 15, 2017 8:59pm
Nostradamus

Oh dear – poor lprent is a wee bit sensitive today:

Heh. You can actually see what they’re doing with stories like this. “Little is crap. Ardern is the only thing propping up the hopeless old goat. Is this the sort of leadership you want, New Zealand? Vote for the Blue Team!” Normally, you have to squint a bit to read between the lines… but this — it’s about as subtle as a bulldozer driven by a homicidal maniac.

[lprent: sigh. Don’t be an idiot troll. Try to learn how to say something new rather than the prepackaged parrot. I don’t think you actually read the post? You appear to astroturf this tired line whenever Little’s name turns up. Do it somewhere else for a while. banned for 2 weeks, If I have cause to notice you again, then I won’t waste any more pre-election space on you. ]

This appears to be a very low threshold, and dubious justification, for banning a commenter. Will lprent ban everyone (apart from the protected species) before the election?
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April 15, 2017 7:14pm
- stigie
  
  What would happen if i put this on the Stranded Nostra..?
  
  “Can you please stop masturbating while I’m asleep,” asked my wife.
  “If you’re asleep, how do you know I’m masturbating?” I replied.
  “Because I can’t open my eyes in the mornings!” she said.
  
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  April 15, 2017 7:19pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Stigie:
    
    If you posted a politically-incorrect comment like that then you can expect this response:
    
    [you put up two or three very controversial comments, some of which is pretty offensive. I was impressed by the way the other commenters responded to that, there was no shit fight, just a series of considered comments disagreeing with you and pointing out why. You’ve ignored all of those and now come back in some hours later and posted in an inflammatory way. Take the weekend off (back on Tues and I suggest a read of the Policy before you comment again) – weka]
    
    So the ansewr is: a weekend off.
    
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    April 15, 2017 7:21pm
nasska

A gay man, finally deciding he could no longer hide his sexuality from his parents, went over to their house and found his mother in the kitchen cooking dinner. He sat down at the kitchen table, let out a big sigh, and said, “Mum, I have something to tell you… I’m gay.”

His mother made no reply or gave any response and the son was about to repeat it to make sure she’d heard him, when she turned away from the pot she was stirring and said calmly. “You’re gay…doesn’t that mean you have oral sex with other men?” The son said nervously, “Uh, yeah, Mum, that’s right.”

His mother went back to stirring the pot, then suddenly whirled around and WHACKED him over the head with her spoon and said.. “Don’t you EVER complain about the taste of my cooking again!”…
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April 15, 2017 8:50pm
BeeSting

https://www.rt.com/news/384817-pyongyang-military-parade-missiles/

Don’t Miss the Parade
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April 15, 2017 9:23pm
Rachael Membery

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11838927
Gee, someone should write a book about these people. Lovely suggestion re ANZAC day too.
Thanks.
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April 15, 2017 9:29pm
RF

I see the girls blouse Inprent is in his usual key board warrior self over on the Standard and banning leftvright and centre what he considers to be right wing trolls.

I suspect he has a small mans complex who would run a mile if confronted face to face.

He / she must be a very unhappy individual.
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April 15, 2017 10:07pm
Manolo

The price Australia pays for bringing primitives:
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/marriage/hes-permitted-to-hit-her-alarming-video-appears-to-condone-domestic-violence/news-story/f6f517cac59eccad98e0768d4604feb0
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April 16, 2017 1:08am
BeeSting

Matthew 4:24

News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed; and he healed them.

John 8:44-47

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s
desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for
there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is
a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe
me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why
don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The
reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Timothy 2:7
7 Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.

8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel,

9 For which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained.
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April 16, 2017 10:03am

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