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July 24, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 July 2016

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General Debate

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Rachael Membery

Shawn Herles (14,366 comments) says:

July 24th, 2016 at 4:00 pm

Sharia would surely be unconstitutional? I use that word as reference to laws of any jurisdiction not Islamic. So if it was practiced and it was contrary to the laws of the land, surely there would be recourse.
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July 24, 2016 5:21pm
Shawn Herles

” but most of us here were brought up to think that’s a bad thing.”

No doubt. It’s not a view I share.
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July 24, 2016 5:21pm
Shawn Herles

“Sharia would surely be unconstitutional?”

Quite possibly, but I’m not absolutely sure. It’s certainly not something we want in the West.
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July 24, 2016 5:23pm
Kimbo

@ Shawn Herles

It’s a fact, not a straw man.

…It’s a good analogy.

…Sorry Kimbo, but game, set, match.

Indeed, a stunning victory as per the rules of pigeon chess. I’ll let SGA carry on playing if he is so inclined. Over and out, Shawn, forever….
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July 24, 2016 5:25pm
Nostradamus

Nasska:

There are sufficient of the terminally bewildered on morning Kiwiblog GD to get started

Well, if you’re looking for recruits, I think Hugh Pavletich has potential:

Food shortages in Venezuela.
Housing shortages in Auckland.
Any bells going off Kiwibloggers ????

Ring the bells, Nasska, and I’ll send Hugh over!
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July 24, 2016 5:28pm
Shawn Herles

“Indeed, a stunning victory as per the rules of pigeon chess.”

I asked you a straight question, you gave me excuses. Running away does nothing for your credibility.

Easy question Kimbo. Let’s say the person being sacrificed was a member of the cult and feely willing to be sacrificed. Would it still be right for the state to restrict it?

What I see is that you want to argue for absolute religious freedom, only when it suits you. When offered an example of a possible flaw in that view, you waffle about the current laws of the land.

So the fact is, your position is no different to mine. I’m just being honest about that, and not engaging in waffle and excuses to hide it.

“Over and out, Shawn, forever….”

Sure Kimbo, sure. Until next time. 🙂
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July 24, 2016 5:30pm
Scott

Just watching the news – Muslim suicide bomber in Kabul kills many. Muslim German Iranian kills people in Germany. The latter may not have been inspired by Isis?

Muslims appear to be engaging in terrorist acts almost daily. As others have stated we have plenty of peaceful people interested in immigrating to New Zealand. No need for any potential terrorists of the Muslim variety.
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July 24, 2016 5:39pm
starboard

“All I’d need is a nucleus of about twenty deranged, gullible headcases who get their instructions from the snap, crackle & pop of their daily cornflakes.”

Fuck Ive never laughed so much..thank you for that my man . Very good.
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July 24, 2016 5:46pm
Shawn Herles

“Muslims appear to be engaging in terrorist acts almost daily. As others have stated we have plenty of peaceful people interested in immigrating to New Zealand. No need for any potential terrorists of the Muslim variety.”

The fact is that allowing Muslim immigration is playing Russian Roulette. Sooner or later, people will die.

Pompous Liberals who think they are everyone’s intellectual superior think we have to submit to this because their precious abstract principles are more important than you, your spouse, or your children. Your life and mine are expendable to them, because principles, even mythical fake ones, come before people.

If the principles guiding the State mandate this kind of Russian Roulette, then those principles must be changed.
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July 24, 2016 6:06pm
Reid

Muslims appear to be engaging in terrorist acts almost daily. As others have stated we have plenty of peaceful people interested in immigrating to New Zealand. No need for any potential terrorists of the Muslim variety.

Everyone who extrapolates because Muslims commit terrorist acts this means all Muslims want to deep down commit terrorist acts, has IMO got some flaw in the logic circuits. It’s a false proposition.

What amazes me is how people are so ignorant of what happened the last time propaganda was used to beat up the population into a big conflict.

The precise techniques and methods that are involved with the dreadful, diabolical but clearly bogus: “war on tewwor” propaganda are remarkably similar (with updated media channels) to the dreadful, diabolical but clearly bogus propaganda that Hitler used to turn the poor Germans, the most educated and civlised population on the European Continent at the time, into the hate-filled creatures that wrought such damage.

People in the West don’t seem to understand that they’re being created, just the same way as those pre-war Germans were created.

Hate is never the answer. And that’s what they’re allowing to be created in themselves.

This IS how it happened in Germany.

So let history repeat, or don’t.

I vote let’s not.
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July 24, 2016 6:12pm
nasska

…..”Everyone who extrapolates Muslims commit terrorist acts means all Muslims want to, deep down, commit terrorist acts has IMO. got some flaw in the logic circuits”…..

Why take the risk? We could allow access to the equivalent number of (say) Icelanders who have a very low self detonation rate.
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July 24, 2016 6:16pm
stigie

“Fuck Ive never laughed so much..thank you for that my man . Very good.”

Have to agree Starbored, the man has huge talent in writing (ole Reddy would disagree of course)
Are his talents being wasted in Eke ? And i dont mean writing animal farm books..?
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July 24, 2016 6:18pm
Reid

Why take the risk?

So none of us have ever asked for it nasska.

Yet our political masters across the Western world apparently mistook “no comment” for “yes please” and BTW, they didn’t tell us about it beforehand, don’t keep stats on it [yeah right], and don’t much talk about it at all really, do they.

So what does this say about who or what is in charge re: this?
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July 24, 2016 6:23pm
Scott

Totally agree nasska, why take the risk? There are very few terrorists right now who are not Muslim. So if we import not Muslims we are likely to get not terrorism.
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July 24, 2016 6:34pm
Shawn Herles

@Reid

“Everyone who extrapolates because Muslims commit terrorist acts this means all Muslims want to deep down commit terrorist acts, has IMO got some flaw in the logic circuits. It’s a false proposition.”

Nobody, including me, is saying that though. That’s why I used the analogy of Russian Roulette.

To use another analogy, if ten people want to move into your home, and you know for a fact that 2 or 3 of them are serial killers, but you don’t know which, do you let them in the door?

“What amazes me is how people are so ignorant of what happened the last time propaganda was used to beat up the population into a big conflict.”

For someone who talks about Satanic Jews and uses the very same conspiracy theories regarding Jews that the government you’re alluding to did, that statement is the height of hypocrisy.

“People in the West don’t seem to understand that they’re being created”

Because they are not. To claim that is to release people of their God given moral responsibility and liberty. Yes the state and the media engage in a fair amount of propaganda and attempts at conditioning, but they are not as all powerful as you claim. Otherwise Trump would not be the Republican nominee, Marine le Pen would not have a chance at winning the French election, and Brexit would not have won. I can think of other examples, but the point is….. Resistance is never futile! 🙂
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July 24, 2016 6:36pm
Reid

There are a great deal of Muslims who aren’t terrorists Scott, but once tarred with the Muslim brush there’s no coming back, is there. Perhaps we should get special identity cards for them, just so we can be aware of the danger in our midst. How about a badge they have to by-law wear? Or would that be too obvious do you think? Just a tad?
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July 24, 2016 6:40pm
nasska

….”So what does this say about who or what is in charge re: this”…..

Part of the hostile immigration phenomenon goes back to 60s Britain where the unions were destroying industry with strikes & pushing wages sky high. The government of the era opened up the borders to West Indians to free up the labour market with partial success. Next came the Muslim Pakistanis courtesy of the socialists who wanted to stick it to the class system.

Then I think the bleeding hearts looked at the rainbow surrounded melting pot & liked what they saw. Ever since then the push has been on to open borders & all the associated ills.

I put it down to a mass suicide pact the Liberal West has entered in to, similar to that chosen by lemmings.
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July 24, 2016 6:40pm
Reid

I put it down to a mass suicide pact the Liberal West has entered in to

I would’ve too, except the Conservatives have advanced the same agenda, over the decades, haven’t they.
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July 24, 2016 6:45pm
Shawn Herles

Moderation thing is playing up again.

“@Reid

“Everyone who extrapolates because Muslims commit terrorist acts this means all Muslims want to deep down commit terrorist acts, has IMO got some flaw in the logic circuits. It’s a false proposition.”

Nobody, including me, is saying that though. That’s why I used the analogy of Russian Roulette.

To use another analogy, if ten people want to move into your home, and you know for a fact that 2 or 3 of them are serial killers, but you don’t know which, do you let them in the door?
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July 24, 2016 6:46pm
Shawn Herles

“What amazes me is how people are so ignorant of what happened the last time propaganda was used to beat up the population into a big conflict.”

For someone who talks about Satanic Jews and uses the very same conspiracy theories regarding Jews that the government you’re alluding to did, that statement is the height of hypocrisy.

“People in the West don’t seem to understand that they’re being created”

Because they are not. To claim that is to release people of their God given moral responsibility and liberty. Yes the state and the media engage in a fair amount of propaganda and attempts at conditioning, but they are not as all powerful as you claim. Otherwise Trump would not be the Republican nominee, Marine le Pen would not have a chance at winning the French election, and Brexit would not have won. I can think of other examples, but the point is….. Resistance is never futile! ?
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July 24, 2016 6:47pm
Shawn Herles

“I would’ve too, except the Conservatives have advanced the same agenda, over the decades, haven’t they.”

Some have. Some haven’t. Many who have are often, like Kimbo, more Liberal than genuinly conservative in the reactionary anti-modernist sense.

Anyway, that’s enough time waisting for me. Later folks.
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July 24, 2016 6:49pm
nasska

…..”the Conservatives have advanced the same agenda”…..

Yes but as I hypothesised they had a different reason.

One course of action, two different goals, one outcome…..I think that’s what confuses us.
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July 24, 2016 6:51pm
Manolo

Hungary will tell the buggers to go away:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3704581/Hundreds-migrants-asylum-seekers-march-Serbia-s-border-Hungary-protest-decision-border-closed-people-trying-reach-EU.html

Hundreds of migrants and asylum seekers set off on foot on Friday toward Serbia’s border with Hungary to protest its decision to keep its border closed for most people trying to reach the European Union.

Migrants held cardboard placards saying “Hungary Open Borders” or “No Borders, No Fence” as they marched on Friday in a long column along a road leading north from Belgrade toward the Hungarian border 120 miles away.
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July 24, 2016 6:54pm
Reid

Nobody, including me, is saying that though.

Yes they were Shawn. You probably didn’t notice it for there were rather a lot of big words but since you weren’t here back then it didn’t seem to matter.

“What amazes me is how people are so ignorant of what happened the last time propaganda was used to beat up the population into a big conflict.”

For someone who talks about Satanic Jews and uses the very same conspiracy theories regarding Jews that the government you’re alluding to did, that statement is the height of hypocrisy.

Shawn just because your mind evidently is one-dimensional and can’t stop thinking about Jews and Statan (you should probably see someone about that BTW), this doesn’t mean everyone’s minds are like that.

“People in the West don’t seem to understand that they’re being created”

Because they are not.

Yes, they are. Do you seriously think the pre-war Germans weren’t manipulated, created, into what they became? And if der, that happened, then how, is simply what I asked. (Which had BTW, nothing to do with Satan or Jews either.)

If you do think that which clearly you do notice is served I’m not interested in hearing about it, because to have a serious belief to that effect simply belies history and battling that amount of profound ignorance tonight is something I’m simply not entertaining.
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July 24, 2016 7:00pm
Istvaña

Muhammad is central and exemplary in Islam
Muhammad’s later actions supercede his earlier ideals and behaviour.
Islamic State in their seeming 7th century actions are probably more true to imitating Muhammad’s later behaviour.

Modern moderate Islam, when pushed, would have to deny Islamic State’s examples and also many aspects for Muhammad’s final (Medina) teachings and actions.

It is like asking Christians to deny the teachings and example of Christ.
It tends to fuck their religion up
What is the point of either without the central character?
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July 24, 2016 7:22pm
Reid

It’s the factions Istvana.

That’s the source of the poison: specifically, wahabbism.
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July 24, 2016 7:30pm
Ross12

I challenge any of the Clinton fans to watch the “Clinton Cash” movie linked by Fletch @ 12.27 and come back on here and say she is fit to be the POTUS.
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July 24, 2016 7:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Viewing of “Clinton Cash” documentary being made available online at 8pm ET 24 July (presumably 12 noon NZST – Monday 25Th)

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/07/22/global-airing-clinton-cash-documentary-breitbart-email-sign/
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July 24, 2016 7:36pm
itstricky

I challenge any of the Clinton fans to watch the “Clinton Cash” movie linked by Fletch @ 12.27 and come back on here and say she is fit to be the POTUS.

I challenge you to read the extract from Time I pasted earlier, that said that although most facts in the movie are individually true, the conclusions that are reached from those facts are mostly thread bare.
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July 24, 2016 7:42pm
Reid

I challenge you to read the extract from Time I pasted earlier, that said that although each fact in the movie is individually true, the conclusions that are reached from those facts are mostly thread bare.

Yes but why are these facts even there for the contestee for the POTUS is the question itt.

And there are of course equal facts for Trump too, like how do you become successful in the casino business without mob involvement.

That’s the issue.

We all know that itt.

We’re living in interesting times. Aren’t we.
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July 24, 2016 7:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I challenge you to read the extract from Time I pasted earlier,

OK, challenge was accepted… I have read the extract….
In fact, I even went and read the entire review
http://time.com/4328254/clinton-cash-movie-hillary-clinton-peter-schweizer-breitbart/

Do I win a prize?
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July 24, 2016 7:51pm
Fletch

Viewing of “Clinton Cash” documentary being made available online at 8pm ET 24 July (presumably 12 noon NZST – Monday 25Th)

Maggie it was able to be viewed on youtube this afternoon. I watched it then. As you say, will be available again tomorrow.
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July 24, 2016 8:02pm
Rachael Membery

nasska (16,741 comments) says:

July 24th, 2016 at 6:40 pm

I agree with the sentiment but the lemming thing is a fallacy.
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July 24, 2016 8:23pm
itstricky

We’re living in interesting times. Aren’t we.

One were everyone tells tall tales about Presidental nominees? Sure.
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July 24, 2016 8:34pm
Reid

If you believe that tricky, you understand nothing at all.
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July 24, 2016 8:36pm
Ross12

itstricky

I read the Time article and as you say they question the conclusions BUT they don’t do it with facts. They are just guessing and in fact the article is a lot of words that says very little.

The New York Times , Washington Post , ABC –all very left leaning media outlets confirm the facts in the documentary. Now I read that even movie maker Michael Moore thinks Trump will win ( he’s saying this but it is unrelated to the CC doco.)
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July 24, 2016 8:37pm
itstricky

Do I win a prize?

The prize is internal self congratulations for doing your bit to flatten out the bias of KB for another day.

On the other hand, Ross12 might offer sweetners.
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July 24, 2016 8:37pm
itstricky

If you believe that tricky, you understand nothing at all.

Aha! But if you believe that I believe that, then you understand nothing at all.
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July 24, 2016 8:38pm
nasska

Rachael Membery

….”the lemming thing is a fallacy”….

Just checked Wiki & you’re right.

That’s buggered a good metaphor! 🙂
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July 24, 2016 8:44pm
itstricky

The New York Times , Washington Post , ABC –all very left leaning media outlets confirm the facts in the documentary.

Time pointed out that they were true facts. It doesn’t matter if these are left, right, or rectangular newspapers – they’re reporting facts. So, yes, newspapers confirm facts. “Interesting times we live in”, a Reid?

I read the Time article and as you say they question the conclusions BUT they don’t do it with facts. They are just guessing and in fact the article is a lot of words that says very little.

But you choose to believe one muddle over the other. Fancy that.

Now I read that even movie maker Michael Moore thinks Trump will win ( he’s saying this but it is unrelated to the CC doco.)

He’s probably excited about all the good material he’ll have to release with his next “expose” if Trump does win.
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July 24, 2016 8:47pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The prize is internal self congratulations for doing your bit

Gee, someone has been to a self-improvement charm course.

I’m too old to cope with inner hype…..still, you recognise that Ross12 is onto it.
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July 24, 2016 8:48pm
sooty

Andrew Little dealt too! Social media and the Taranaki Daily News website has an article and photos of Andrew Littles NP office on his billboard sign has been defaced. There is a new sign over the name Andrew which says #Stuart#, and a picture off a large mouse over his head. I believe there is kids movie/TV programe, off Stuart Little the mouse. Very clever, to who ever did it, well done!
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July 24, 2016 8:55pm
Keeping Stock

There’s a photo here Sooty – brilliantly done

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/82428687/labour-leader-andrew-littles-new-plymouth-billboard-defaced-by-vandals
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July 24, 2016 9:09pm
Rachael Membery

nasska (16,742 comments) says:

July 24th, 2016 at 8:44 pm

Sorry, I was surprised too. 😉
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July 24, 2016 9:26pm
RF

Beautiful. The Clinton pucker factor has just kicked in.

Wikileaks is now releasing a few thousand Democratic emails hacked by the Russians. On top of the Clinton Cash film this will make her future very interesting.

Stockpile the popcorn.
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July 24, 2016 9:45pm
itstricky

Andrew Little dealt too!
There’s a photo here Sooty – brilliantly done

~~Low life activities by what appears to be Green Scum.~~
There are two types of billboard vandals. The (generally) young idiots who just vandalise any they come across. And there are those who target billboards of one party only, because they are partisans for another party.
~~People aren’t stupid – they will notice the one-sided defacements and realize its an orchestrated campaign from left leaning opponents of National. It makes the left look even more desperate.~~

Whoops, shit, wrong thread. Maybe it was just someone having some fun

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/national_billboards_being_vandalised_across_the_country.html
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July 24, 2016 11:37pm
chiz

Trump taking Russian money :

[…]

The Trump Camp was totally indifferent to the platform. So party activists were able to write one of the most conservative platforms in history. Not with Trump’s backing but because he simply didn’t care. With one big exception: Trump’s team mobilized the nominee’s traditional mix of cajoling and strong-arming on one point: changing the party platform on assistance to Ukraine against Russian military operations in eastern Ukraine.

[…]
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July 25, 2016 12:02am
Manolo

Brazilian shambles:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/australia-boycott-rio-athletes-village-not-safe-not-161643237.html?ref=gs
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July 25, 2016 6:37am
Manolo

Islam’s daily act of love:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/07/24/report-man-kills-woman-with-machete-in-germany-is-arrested0.html

BERLIN – A 21-year-old Syrian refugee is accused of using a machete to kill a woman and injure two other people in Germany on Sunday, Reuters reported, citing police.
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July 25, 2016 6:41am
Rachael Membery

Manolo (21,958 comments) says:

July 25th, 2016 at 6:41 am

I see that he was run over by a quick thinking man in a BMW, shall we wait for the cries of outrage. Not just the woman died but her unborn child.

I suppose that he didn’t like his doner kebab!!!
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July 25, 2016 8:27am
Manolo

Who is going to believe the Italians on this one?
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/24/italy-insists-theres-no-banking-problem-as-stress-tests-loom-large.html
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July 25, 2016 9:25am
Manolo

An long-time supporter and accomplice of the uber-corrupt Hillary Clinton calls it quits:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/24/wikileaks-saga-blows-back-on-wasserman-may-be-denied-role-at-convention-reports.html

As the 2016 Democratic National Convention kicks off, Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned from her position under pressure, as the party moved to quell the damage from a massive cache of leaked internal emails that suggested the party was taking sides in the 2016 Democratic primary.
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July 25, 2016 9:27am

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