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May 6, 2016 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 May 2016

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General Debate

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Reid

What a great solution, Reid. Pay some public servants a shitload more because they have no public sector experience. That’ll work.

Yes I didn’t think you’d like the thought of losing your privilaged position which we pay for mm.

Perhaps if you and your colleagues hadn’t fucked up quite so much in the past we wouldn’t have to contemplate such.

I think you and other lifelong public “servants” need to get it through your thick skulls what you do is no different from others, except to the extent you salute and sychophantically comply with every single order your political masters issue, whereas in the private sector, if a manager goes nuts like a politician does, he gets fired. That’s a good thing mate, not a bad thing.
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May 6, 2016 8:13pm
mikenmild

Is that the royal ‘we’, Reid? No one is contemplating your loony ideas.
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May 6, 2016 8:14pm
nasska

Mike

One of the reasons laziness & incompetence in the Public Service has always been tolerated is the absolute loyalty they supposedly have to the government of the day.

Do you consider that to be the status quo or are my suspicions that the service has been stacked with partisan Labour leaning hacks, particularly in the Education & Welfare field, correct?
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May 6, 2016 8:23pm
mikenmild

nasska
It would be easy to take that flippantly.
In my experience, partisan politics is largely absent from the public servant. Most CEs and senior executives are well aware of the conventions and maintain them scrupulously.
At the same time, the bureaucrats are at the service of the government of the day, and generally do their best to implement the political agenda.
Politics as such is seldom discussed, as opposed to specific policy questions or the failings and foibles of certain politicians.
Quite a few politicians have remarked that they were generally unable to discern the political preferences of those who served them.
Some things have become more overtly political over the years though. Ministers now have cadres of personal appointees who serve a nakedly political agenda of making their bosses look good. Overall though, I believe that the public serve has managed to remain politically neutral.
If I had to guess, I should suppose that public servants as a group lean towards Labour and the Greens, but there are plenty of National and Act voters there.
There are some good safeguards to prevent overt politcisation, too.
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May 6, 2016 8:32pm
Scott Chris

Anyone got word from Starboard? Last I heard he got arrested for ‘using wrong taxi in Patpong no 1000 baht’….

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20150202-the-greatest-mistranslations-ever
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May 6, 2016 8:34pm
ex-golfer

Having worked in both the private and public sector I can safely say that the average public servant is the laziest, overpaid, over-entitled, precious person that I have ever come across.
It is little wonder that many public servants are in it for life – they would never survive in the private sector where risk is required and failure is punished.
It seems in the public sector that if you fail at a project it simply is cause for promotion!
If people think “Gliding On” was fiction they are wrong – it was practically a documentary!
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May 6, 2016 8:36pm
Reid

nasska
It would be easy to take that flippantly.
In my experience, partisan politics is largely absent from the public servant. Most CEs and senior executives are well aware of the conventions and maintain them scrupulously.
At the same time, the bureaucrats are at the service of the government of the day, and generally do their best to implement the political agenda.

Percisely the point I’ve been making all along mm.

What you’ve just described is a model for breeding sychophantic dysfunction given that all the managers are lifers. Middle managers, senior managers – all of them. Life long civil servants. That’s the root cause of the poison.

The reason you can’t see it is because you have a vested interest in maintaining it. I imagine you’re probably a manager. Aren’t you.
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May 6, 2016 8:39pm
Scott Chris

ex-golfer (341 comments) says:
May 6th, 2016 at 8:36 pm
Having worked in both the private and public sector I can safely say that the average public servant is the laziest, overpaid, over-entitled, precious person that I have ever come across.

So you fell out with your caddy. Get over it bro. At least you got the yips. 🙂
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May 6, 2016 8:41pm
mikenmild

Reid
Can I suppose then that you would prefer something like the US spoils system, where thousands of appointments are made by each administration for political reasons?
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May 6, 2016 8:47pm
nasska

A full & fair, if textbook, answer Mike & I’m sure that what you stated generally holds true.

It is education that I’m mostly concerned about. It is one area where the PSA & the government are at absolute loggerheads. Additionally I suspect that the Ministry is chokka with left leaning former teachers.

I fear that their ideology would cloud their obligation to be non partisan.
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May 6, 2016 8:48pm
mikenmild

I don’t know much about the Ministry of Education, nasska. And it’s the PPTA rather than the PSA that has the loud voice in the sector.
I’d be surprised if any ministry was obviously partisan. The Ministry of Education officials are obviously not keen on things like charter schools or national standards, but that’s probably more in the nature of a professional disagreement.
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May 6, 2016 8:53pm
Shunda barunda

The council coned off the beach access today because the waves were “supposed” to be too big. They weren’t, but because official warnings were issued the new health and safety regulations meant there was a liability issue.

Goodbye common sense, hello litigious society.
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May 6, 2016 8:58pm
Reid

Reid
Can I suppose then that you would prefer something like the US spoils system, where thousands of appointments are made by each administration for political reasons?

No of course not mm.

Surprised you can’t see the point. Perhaps the vested interest is clouding your analysis.

After all, there is nothing so heavily defended as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction, is there.

But everyone knows that, don’t they.

No, my position is elementary.

Get rid of the vested interests, and light shall shine.

This means, get rid of the lifelong tenure senior civil servants enjoy, precisely similar to academics, excepting only that civil servants spend their careers shuttling between different govt depts, instead of staying in one their whole lives.

But, those shuttling civil servants effectively run a commercial operation. So make them behave like that, by exposing them to the market.

Make it so that CEOs, tier 2, tier 3 and tier 4 managers all need x number of years at the equivalent level in non govt connected commercial organisations before they are permitted to advance.

Simple.

If that wouldn’t be good for we the taxpayer, then pray explain precisely why.
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May 6, 2016 9:01pm
mikenmild

Seeing all of those positions are already open to appointees from the private sector, your proposal is, in fact, for massive pay rises for senior public servants.

This has been tried before. Once upon a time, when Warren Cooper was the Minister of Local Government, the sector told him that they needed to attract better qualified executives and therefore should abolished the centralised controls on local government salaries. When this was done, all the town clerks became chief executive overnight with large pay rises. Thank you very much.

There is very little evidence that:
1. Senior and able (two different things) executives from the private sector want to work in the public sector
2. Massive salaries will produce outstanding performance
3. A private sector background will better equip an executive to perform in the public sector.
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May 6, 2016 9:09pm
Reid

Seeing all of those positions are already open to appointees from the private sector, your proposal is, in fact, for massive pay rises for senior public servants.

mm I’m wondering if you’re being deliberately obtuse.

I’m not advocating opening up civil service management positions to private sector candidates, I’m saying deny advancement to civil servants unless they have x amount of private experience.

And I don’t mean QUANGOs or SOEs I mean real private companies.

If management tier position x doesn’t have x level private experience, then don’t bother applying.

Hope that’s clear.

I’m also saying do it wholesale, across the board, no exceptions. Because civil service managers as I explained, often spend their careers traversing Courtney Place and Lampton Quay and never ever hit Queen St, Akld.

Sorry, that’s got to change, is what I’m saying.

So no, that hasn’t “been tried before,” has it.
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May 6, 2016 9:15pm
AgentBallSack

As far as I am concerned your (supposed) CV the most important thing on it should be able. Seniority means fuck all except to lickspittle toadies who think that length of service = ability.

Measure point = Labour Party
If that’s the benchmark then we’re screwed.
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May 6, 2016 9:20pm
AgentBallSack

I dont mean to single out mikey BUT

If what you have achieved in your job in 10 or 20 years is the ability to greet people in Maori, a first aid course and you’re known as a whizz when it comes to paper shuffling on a Friday morning so you can get to Friday afternoon drinks, you have failed as a human being.

Sorry bro.
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May 6, 2016 9:29pm
Inandout

Stephie come out and discuss the Islamic nut bars with the extreme videos.
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May 6, 2016 9:32pm
mikenmild

But you don’t really know anything about me, ABS. You don’t know where I live or where I work, who my family is or what things I might do.
All you can ever know about anonymous people on blogs is what they say, which you have no means of verifying.
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May 6, 2016 9:34pm
renderer

Penny Bright crowing she has signed a petition:

Close the loopholes that allow the world’s rich to escape paying their fair share in tax by using foreign trusts in New Zealand. We do not want New Zealand to be a tax haven for the world’s wealthiest 1%.

Sheer bloody hypocrisy from someone who does not pay ANY share of rates or taxes. The woman is a fraud, demonstratably lies and thieves from fellow ratepayers. She also allegedly took money from occupy Auckland.

Her video on you tube shows her up as a common vandal.

This excuse for a human being has the audacity to promote herself as a fit and proper person to lead Auckland city.

The sooner she is exposed for what she is the better.

This scum has the sheer gall to try and expose the percieved shortcomings in others but squeals like a stuck pig when asked to account for some of her actions.

Why the hell she feels the need to espouse her bullshit here is quite beyond comprehension. But given that she is barely tolerated at the Standard I suppose anyresponse to her dribble is better than none at all.
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May 6, 2016 9:39pm
Reid

Why the hell she feels the need to espouse her bullshit here is quite beyond comprehension.

Same reason any of us feel the need to do so I imagine renderer.
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May 6, 2016 9:46pm
AgentBallSack

Mikey, I know you have a lot of time to troll people with a lot of shit you can’t surely believe. So I am guessing in your spare time you don’t prowl the Wainui streets in a Seventh Day Adventist gang saving the misbegotten youth. But I sometimes slough off my job to troll people too. I do wear other hats as I am sure you do, and I didnt mean anything personally towards you.
But you must have surely seen the type of person I describe?
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May 6, 2016 9:46pm
AgentBallSack

Penny Bright is hated by Left and Right alike. In that respect she is truly bipartisan.
As for the other, (in my considered opinion) it’s so she can sign off as:

Penny Bright
Corrupt, Lying, Thieving 2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
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May 6, 2016 9:54pm
Reid

Beats me why most of you guys have such a hard on for Penny. She’s no worse than many other commenters, including me with my sheeple admonishments. Would you rather have her, or stephie, if it was a choice?

And of those two: why, is of course the only relevant question.
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May 6, 2016 9:59pm
AgentBallSack

most of you guys have such a hard on for Penny.

Wrong choice of words dude!!!!
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May 6, 2016 10:04pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I’m not a great reader of the Whale-oil blog….
but I did find this posting by Spanish-Bride amusing.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2016/05/andrew-little-e-mails-wife-man-called-sociopath-one-news/
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May 6, 2016 10:21pm
Sponge

Jesus H Christ Reid – she would make a diamond go soft!

You do make a point though. Both her and Stephie are massively dishonest but in different ways. Stephie at least argues his/her case (albiet poorly) whereas Penny just posts any old shit and then refuses to respond to any questions about the utter bollocks she has posted.
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May 6, 2016 10:27pm
Rich Prick

most of you guys have such a hard on for Penny

Jesus wept, have you seen her plank? Any arousal out of that look ought to be referred for extra special care. Secured, preferably.
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May 6, 2016 11:21pm

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