General Debate 23 December 2015

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Griff

Morrissey’s Got Talent. How long would it last?Canceled when a target audience first view the pilot show. Out of one hundred of the targeted audience at the first showing only three gimps and a starboard liked it .
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December 23, 2015 3:18pm
stephieboy

Reid, do refer to my post at 8.14am . Tally ho !Assad and Putin Cluster bombs away .

I wonder if Ridley Scott had anything to do with the Promethean strategy ?

Obviously the silly season has got he better of your ,eh ?

Who authored that piece of crap as a matter of interest ?
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December 23, 2015 3:32pm
Manolo

This Cardinal will have more time for paedophiles from his own church:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/22/state-department-chides-cardinal-over-gay-slurs-against-us-ambassador.html?intcmp=hpbt3
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December 23, 2015 4:43pm
publicwatchdog

FYI Kiwibloggers 🙂

23 December 2015

OIA request:

Please provide the following information:

Upon which section of the Local
Government (Auckland Transitional Provisions) Act is
Auckland Council relying to make ‘out of scope’
changes to the Proposed Auckland Unitary Plan?

Yours sincerely,

Penny Bright

2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate
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December 23, 2015 4:51pm
Jack5

Taki puts the case against atheism – “Let’s face it: most intelligent people believe in God” – in the Spectator.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/we-need-christianity-more-than-ever-in-this-age-of-atheists/
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December 23, 2015 4:53pm
Rowan

Gripp
You are one delusional f….ed up individual, your long winded ramblings provide comic relief but nothing more, the only one worshipping cannabis oil is yours truly!!
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December 23, 2015 4:57pm
Manolo

Is the rate-bludger wearing black today? Is she mourning “generous” KDC’s loss?
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December 23, 2015 4:59pm
Nostradamus

Penny:

Do you have a position on the current debate about the West Auckland kauri tree?

Helen Clark has taken time out from her busy duties to express her support for the tree, so you must have a position on the question of private property rights:

Mr Smith broke his 13-day treetop protest on private property in bush-clad Titirangi when eight security guards arrived at 6.15am and started to ringbark the mature tree.

Do you think it’s acceptable for someone to trespass onto private property in the name of the Save Our Kauri protest group?

You can probably see where I’m going with this. If you don’t support private prioperty rights, then what’s to stop someone – like Stigie – camping out on your front lawn in the name of the Pay Your Rates protest group?
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December 23, 2015 5:11pm
SGA

Jack5 at 4:53 pm

Taki puts the case against atheism …

By the time I got to the end, I felt so sad for the guy that I just wanted to give him a hug. I hope 2016 has more to offer him.
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December 23, 2015 5:17pm
nasska

….” what’s to stop someone – like Stigie – camping out on your front lawn until you pay your rates?”…..

As a fellow protester Penny would probably offer him use of her kitchen & WC free of charge Nostra. 🙂
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December 23, 2015 5:18pm
nasska

And the bath too but he’d have to shovel out the coal first!
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December 23, 2015 5:19pm
publicwatchpuppy

Hi Big Dog,

Whats an OIA and why do you need a urinary plan, do you have another infection?

Miss Maggy is very helpful perhaps she can help, Don’t ask these boys though they aren’t very nice

PWP
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December 23, 2015 5:29pm
Jack5

Re SGA on Taki at 5.17..

Sorry for Taki Theodoracopulos – no way. He’s written the colourful “High Life” column in the Spectator for nearly 40 years, and often they are bloody funny. He served three months in prison for cocaine possession, then wrote a book about it.

Here’s Wikipedia on Taki:

In 2002, Taki founded The American Conservative magazine with Pat Buchanan and Scott McConnell. He was also the publisher of the British magazine Right Now!He currently publishes and writes for Taki’s Magazine, described as a libertarian webzine of “politics and culture.”

Here’ls a link for his magazine:

http://takimag.com/#axzz3v7D2tPdf
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December 23, 2015 5:41pm
SGA

@Jack5 at 5:41 pm
Be that as it may, he sounded so upset that my heart just went out to him.
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December 23, 2015 5:43pm
Jack5

SGA, this is the first time I’ve read Taki’s Magazine but it looks just the thing to spark up Kiwiblog general debate on a Christmas-week night when the thread has suddenly gone flat.

There’s a column alleging in some Western countries racism is now regarded a more serious offence than murder and an account of a TV stunt report of an air crash, when a Boeing 777 from Korea was landing at San Francisco. Three people were killed. Here is the Taki’s Magazine column piece on the TV report:

Remember back in 2013, when Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crashed on final approach in San Francisco? Only two people died, which meant we all felt comfortable having a good laugh when TV station KTVU in San Francisco was duped by a prankster into announcing the “names” of the airplane’s pilots: “Sum Ting Wong,” “Wi Tu Lo,” “Ho Lee Fuk,” and “Bang Ding Ow.” The on-air gaffe made for a great viral video, followed by a hearty mea culpa from the station. Pundits around the world wondered how the fake names ever made it to air, considering the fact that, as local newspapers reported at the time, as many as five people had to check and approve the names, and another person had to type them into the teleprompter. Plus, a random person at the NTSB confirmed the names when the station called before airtime. No one up the chain became suspicious? Really?

About a year after the incident, I met a young lady who was working at KTVU at the time of the crash. She told me that the general consensus among her coworkers was that those who approved the names did become suspicious, but no one wanted to take the risk of being the first to speak up. KTVU has many Asian employees, and most of the people involved in approving the names were white. No one wanted to look “racist” for suggesting that the names were fake…just in case they were wrong.
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December 23, 2015 5:56pm
SGA

Jack5 at 5:56 pm

SGA, this is the first time I’ve read Taki’s Magazine but it looks just the thing to spark up Kiwiblog general debate on a Christmas-week night when the thread has suddenly gone flat.

Because we don’t have enough of “non-religious versus religious” on GD as it is?
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December 23, 2015 6:03pm
Jack5

SGA here’s a video clip of the actual stuff-up in the TV report on the crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 – and the apology and correction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmFA7jDnk_w
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December 23, 2015 6:04pm
Fletch

Commuters in London who do not have a ticket for the train and try to ride for free will be punished by telling them the end of Star Wars. No one wants that, so you better buy your tickets!

http://mashable.com/2015/12/22/london-underground-star-wars/#jz40Ce42XiqU
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December 23, 2015 6:06pm
SGA

@Jack5
Yeah, I remember the incident. So what?
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December 23, 2015 6:12pm
SGA

Apparently I don’t have permission to edit my last post – so I’ll add here – and what’s this got to do with the your previous link that affected me so deeply.
(Add: ok, edit works here – c’est la vie)
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December 23, 2015 6:14pm
Griff

Hey Rowan its the jesus freaks not me .

If you doubt what I post is true boy have I got news for you.

Jesus was a pot head

The first solid evidence of the Hebrew use of cannabis was established in 1936 by Sula Benet, a little known Polish etymologist from the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw. The word cannabis was generally thought to be of Scythian origin, but Benet showed that it has a much earlier origin in Semitic languages like Hebrew, and that it appears several times throughout the Old Testament. Benet explained that “in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament there are references to hemp, both as incense, which was an integral part of religious celebration, and as an intoxicant.”

Benet demonstrated that the word for cannabis is kaneh-bosm, also rendered in traditional Hebrew as kaneh or kannabus. The root kan in this construction means “reed” or “hemp”, while bosm means “aromatic”.

The Anointing Oil Recipe in the bible

Anointing Oil

22 Then the Lord said to Moses, 23 “Take the following fine spices: 500 shekels[a] of liquid myrrh, half as much (that is, 250 shekels) of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels[b] of fragrant kaneh-bosm, 24 500 shekels of cassia—all according to the sanctuary shekel—and a hin[c] of olive oil. 25 Make these into a sacred anointing oil, a fragrant blend

Christ meaning
The Christ (/kraɪst/; Ancient Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning “anointed”) is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ) and the Syriac (M’shiha), the Messiah, and is used as a title for Jesus in the New Testament
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December 23, 2015 6:15pm
nasska

It’s the best explanation out for the miracles Griff. The goat humpers were fried for about a thousand years. 🙂
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December 23, 2015 6:21pm
starboard

“Griff (12,194 comments) says:
December 21st, 2015 at 9:40 pm
Thai girls dont really want to be with lecherous old white men.
More they need the money and so are forced into what is a self destructive lifestyle.
All the prostitutes I have ever meet have been fucked in the helmet in one way or another.”

Just incase gwiff forgot what he said last night…

” How do you f*** a helmet gwiff ?
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December 23, 2015 6:26pm
nasska

This may help you out with your next trip to Thailand Starboard:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/miqjmj960b8haq0/Starboard's%20dilemma%202.jpg?dl=0
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December 23, 2015 6:30pm
Manolo

@nasska: What about sheep humpers? There is one I know. 🙂
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December 23, 2015 6:37pm
nasska

Homo, hetero, farmyard, whatever Starboard.

It’s all part of life’s rich tapestry. 🙂
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December 23, 2015 6:40pm
Griff

fucked in the helmet
I looked it up for you starboard.
There are two meanings.
1 A really insane person.
2 Starboard.
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December 23, 2015 6:41pm
Griff

You know that means if they are against cannabis they are against Christ Nasska .

Did you read kacks anti atheist link?
What a nut.
It says most intelligent people believe in god.
Fail.
The smarter you are the less likely you are to believe in silly god whacking nonsense .
Even more humorous Atheists are better informed about religion then Christians
With Catholics being one of the less informed groups .
https://500questions.wordpress.com/2011/06/19/18-why-does-belief-in-god-decrease-as-intelligence-increases/
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December 23, 2015 6:43pm
nasska

Always thought that those gifts of frankincense & myrrh were a bit sus Griff. If the truth be known it was probably a few tabs of oil & an ounce of Jerusalem Green. 🙂
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December 23, 2015 6:45pm
mikenmild

I used to think that Jesus, if he existed at all, was probably gay. But now I’m pretty sure he was tappng this:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fun:That_fine-ass_Mary_Magdalene
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December 23, 2015 7:00pm
Jack5

Whiff at 6.43 said:

The smarter you are the less likely you are to believe in silly god whacking nonsense .

Well why are you always on about religion, Whiff? Agnostics generally don’t give a toss, but some atheists, including you, Whiff, just love talking religion and discussing whether there is a God.

Whiff, what is your evidence for the use by anyone-else of your phrase, “fucked in the helmet”. I tried Googling the phrase. Nothing came up. Is it some druggie term?
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December 23, 2015 7:14pm
Nostradamus

Mikenmild:

I used to think that Jesus, if he existed at all, was probably gay.

Oh my goodness Mikenmild – you’re a brave man. Now brace yourself for incoming missiles!
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December 23, 2015 7:17pm
mikenmild

Religion is a very powerful influence on the weak-minded, Jerk (see what I did there, making fun of Kiwiblog names is really clever, isn’t it?). There seems to me to be a very strong correlation between religious conviction and general fuck-wittery.
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December 23, 2015 7:18pm
Jack5

Milky (7.18), when it comes to general fuckwittery, you are right up near the top of the league. I mean, you admit to being a Left-wing libertarian, in your case, or in any case, a self-analysis conclusion possible to reach only under a tinfoil hat.
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December 23, 2015 7:20pm
Griff

Jack5

Kimbo hit the nail on the head earlier today .

Because it’s fun .

‘There’s probably no God… now stop worrying and enjoy your life’
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December 23, 2015 7:23pm
Awww C-mon

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11565382

More quality behaviour from the ‘rent-a-crowd’ lefties, is a mate of yours Peeny?
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December 23, 2015 7:24pm
Jack5

Whiff at 7.23:

‘There’s probably no God… now stop worrying and enjoy your life’

Well why talk so much about whether there is one, or isn’t one, Whiff?
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December 23, 2015 7:26pm
nasska

“For every morsel of bread given to a stranger in need, hundreds have died from diseases whose cures were thwarted by organized religion’s traditional opposition to science. For every word soothing the tempers of men, there have been calls to arms resulting in the death and maiming of thousands. The United Nation’s Children’s Emergency Fund estimates that forty thousand children die each day even as religious organizations obstruct the distribution of birth control devices in poor countries. The resultant daily pain and torturous deaths by starvation far outstrip the almsgiving and generosity religion has always claimed to espouse. Whatever percentage of this toll is attributable to church practices, surely it has added up to far more accrued pain and death over the centuries than the atrocities of Stalin and Hitler combined.”

Charles W. Sutherland
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December 23, 2015 7:33pm
SGA

Jack5 at 7:14 pm

Well why are you always on about religion, Whiff?

Errrr… you were the one that put up the Taki link – pot, kettle, black.
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December 23, 2015 7:37pm
Nostradamus

Jack5:

you [Mikenmild] admit to being a Left-wing libertarian

I can’t recall Mikenmild ever saying or implying this – you may be recalling something that Ryan Sproull said. Still, if I’m wrong, could you please provide a link to Mikenmild’s comment so that I can read it in context?
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December 23, 2015 7:40pm
Griff

I mean, you admit to being a Left-wing libertarian,
Straw man argument from jack.

gee it is like the sun coming up .
Predictably happens every day.
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December 23, 2015 7:43pm
Jack5

Re Nostradamus at 7.40…

I think you will find that Milky is a Leftist Libertarian. I seem to recall him admitting to that. Are you still around Milky?

Leftist Libertarians are usually Leftist anarchists. They use the term Leftist Libertarians, but I think it’s a bit illogical. How can you enforce or maintain anarchism in a State without some overarching Government or force to maintain it?

It’s another Utopian concept.

Whiff (7.43)… you haven’t yet given us an example of use by anyone-else of your term “fucked in the helmet”. Can you please elaborate before its your smoko time again.
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December 23, 2015 7:56pm
mikenmild

I’m not an anarchist.
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December 23, 2015 7:58pm
Yoza

Jack5 (7,647 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 7:20 pm

Milky (7.18), when it comes to general fuckwittery, you are right up near the top of the league. I mean, you admit to being a Left-wing libertarian, in your case, or in any case, a self-analysis conclusion possible to reach only under a tinfoil hat.

I think the term you are searching for, Jack, is libertarian socialist – sometimes called left-libertarianism. Anarchists began using the term Libertarian when the French authorities were attempting to stamp out anarchism at the turn of the 19th century. The sordid corruption of the word ‘libertarian’ in the US is quite a recent phenomenon.
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December 23, 2015 8:04pm
SGA

@mikenmild
It’s a typo – he meant antichrist
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December 23, 2015 8:05pm
nasska

My assessment of Mike is that of a left leaning social liberal. That puts him at a polar opposite to the conservative Godstruck who preach & pontificate on this forum.
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December 23, 2015 8:08pm
mikenmild

Do the political compass:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
I come out as left-libertarian. I’m pretty happy with that. Most of the Godnutters will find that their political opinions are right-authoritarian.
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December 23, 2015 8:12pm
Jack5

Re Milky at 8.12 and earlier.

Okay, thank you for that. Left-libertarian. Sorry to call you an anarchist. Wikipedia says this:

The term left anarchism is sometimes used synonymously with libertarian socialism, left-libertarianism, or socialist anarchism.

But in your case, no. I accept that.

SGA at 8.05. That’s very funny, but no, it wasn’t a typo.
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December 23, 2015 8:17pm
Yoza

Jack5 (7,648 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 7:56 pm

…use the term Leftist Libertarians, but I think it’s a bit illogical. How can you enforce or maintain anarchism in a State without some overarching Government or force to maintain it?

A French writer, sympathetic to anarchism, wrote in the 1890s that “anarchism has a broad back, like paper it endures anything” — including, he noted those whose acts are such that “a mortal enemy of anarchism could not have done better.”

Anarchism is the rejection of illegitimate forms of authority, which doesn’t necessarily mean it rejects all forms of government.
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December 23, 2015 8:18pm
mikenmild

I tend to accept the common definition of anarchism as without government, so I prefer ‘left-libertarian’ or libertarian-socialist’.
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December 23, 2015 8:22pm
Nostradamus

Yoza:

Anarchism is the rejection of illegitimate forms of authority, which doesn’t necessarily mean it rejects all forms of government.

This raises more questions than it answers. Who determines whether a particular “form of authority” is legitimate or illegitimate? And which “form of government” would you accept?
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December 23, 2015 8:41pm
nasska

There’s speculation over what Caitlyn Jenner will be getting this Christmas.

Shitloads of his & hers gift sets I would imagine.
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December 23, 2015 8:55pm
Kimbo

@ Griff

The first solid evidence of the Hebrew use of cannabis was established in 1936 by Sula Benet, a little known Polish etymologist from the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw. The word cannabis was generally thought to be of Scythian origin, but Benet showed that it has a much earlier origin in Semitic languages like Hebrew, and that it appears several times throughout the Old Testament. Benet explained that “in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament there are references to hemp, both as incense, which was an integral part of religious celebration, and as an intoxicant.”

Benet demonstrated that the word for cannabis is kaneh-bosm, also rendered in traditional Hebrew as kaneh or kannabus. The root kan in this construction means “reed” or “hemp”, while bosm means “aromatic”.

Also known as the “root-word fallacy”: Find out the alleged original meaning of a word, and that is the secret key that unlocks its meaning in all subsequent contexts.

I’ll give you a basic example from everyday life (and the biblical languages evolved and developed, like all languages, in exactly the same way):

Griff, if someone causes you an injury…does that mean that in all cases you literally have to go to court and place a decision of who is responsible…in-jury? Nope, thought not. Now stop being silly.

Etymology may be useful for indicating the potential range of meanings for a word in a particular context…but it is not necessarily a straight line…even if what the scholar is contending is true in the first place. But then for those who have observed a plethora of biblical scandal-merchants or Old Testament PhD candidates trawling anywhere and everywhere through obscure cuneiform from everywhere throughout the Ancient Near East for a new angle, that is no surprise…and instead of being drawn away to follow our prejudices, more sober and considered judgement over time is advised.
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December 23, 2015 8:59pm
Nostradamus

I see someone has brought out their Christmas Grinch suit – a downtick for *gasp* asking Yoza two questions!

Nasska: The best gift would be a transexual doll – with mix and match clothing (and plenty of “spare parts” if you know what I mean).
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December 23, 2015 9:01pm
nasska

I don’t think that it’s spare parts that Caitlyn is short of! 🙂
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December 23, 2015 9:08pm
Nostradamus

I think Caitlyn and Conchita could be tailor-made for each other Nasska. Johnboy, as broad-minded as he is, may not be able to cope with a post-op transgender woman and a male drag queen though!
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December 23, 2015 9:11pm
Yoza

Nostradamus (3,666 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 8:41 pm

Yoza:

Anarchism is the rejection of illegitimate forms of authority, which doesn’t necessarily mean it rejects all forms of government.

This raises more questions than it answers. Who determines whether a particular “form of authority” is legitimate or illegitimate?

Those who are subject to it.

And which “form of government” would you accept?

Anything that doesn’t allow the decision making process to become captive to the self interested machinations of self appointing elites. The current system, for example, doesn’t allow any threat to the authority of the global, predominantly US orchestrated, financial industry.
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December 23, 2015 9:13pm
Nostradamus

Yoza:

I’m genuinely trying to understand your political perspective.

Suppose that a majority of people accept that a government is legitimate, but a minority of people (including you) don’t.

– Are you saying, on your suggested interpretation, that you would “opt out” of the decision-making process? And, if so, how do you reconcile being a beneficiary of government spending (funded by other taxpayers who accept that the government is legitimate) while refusing to be part of it?
– Or are you saying that you would pay taxes and comply with your other legal obligations under protest?

I seem to recall that Ryan Sproull has described himself as an anarchist – of some kind or other – so hopefully he’s around to comment too.
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December 23, 2015 9:20pm
Kimbo

@ Nostradamus

I see someone has brought out their Christmas Grinch suit – a downtick for *gasp* asking Yoza two questions!

I was thinking of running a sweep stake on which of the three gambits Yoza was likely to employ in addressing them

1. The “Penny Bright special”, i.e., ignoring them.

2. The UglyTruth bluff ’em response, i.e., “the answers are obvious, and I’ve told you, so it is your problem you can’t see”…followed by a whole heap of subsequent deflecting questions and untested assumptions to distract your attention and put the original interrogator back on the defensive. Very popular with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, btw.

3. The “state it plainly…while being vague and over-generalised” muddy the waters/shell-game, best used by drip-feeding the answers over a number of posts so the lack of answers is disguised by complicating the thread unnecessarily.

And I note that Yoza’s answers in 9:13pm fall into the third category:

Those who are subject to it.

An obvious over-simplification, when government, of its very nature is a corporate exercise, and no two people are ever likely to agree exactly on what that government should be, or if the present manifestation of government is acceptable or completely suitable. And

Anything that doesn’t allow the decision making process to become captive to the self interested machinations of self appointing elites. The current system, for example, doesn’t allow any threat to the authority of the global, predominantly US orchestrated, financial industry.

Yes. So much apparent information…yet very vague, with no real answers or detailed process of how such a state of affairs – if it even exists (an unexamined assumption Yoza has injected into the discussion!)- is to be addressed. Instead, vague slogans.

Good luck getting real answers out of Yoza…or stopping his facile sloganeering. Ironic for a guy and a political/ideological movement that supposedly holds others to account. In other words, your standard radical “99%” leftie.
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December 23, 2015 9:24pm
nasska

Not so fast with the pap & whitewash Kimbo 🙂

…..”Jesus w as almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of scriptural texts published this month. The study suggests that Jesus and his disciples used the drug to carry out miraculous healings. “……

AND

….”Mr Bennett suggests those anointed with the oils used by Jesus were “literally drenched in this potent mixture _ Although most modern people choose to smoke or eat pot, when its active ingredients are transferred into an oil-based carrier, it can also be absorbed through the skin”.

Quoting the New Testament, Mr Bennett argues that Jesus anointed his disciples with the oil and encouraged them to do the same with other followers. This could have been responsible for healing eye and skin diseases referred to in the Gospels.

“If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient anointing oil _ and receiving this oil is what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ,” Mr Bennett concludes.”…..

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/06/science.religion

There are none so blind as those who will not see!
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December 23, 2015 9:26pm
Manolo

In NZ these people would feel the wrath of useless and brainless Dame Devoy:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/texas-restaurant-chain-touts-politically-incorrect-holiday-policy/story?id=35910460

The chain restaurant posted signs outside its nine Texas locations about two weeks ago that read, “Notice: This store is politically incorrect. We say ‘Merry Christmas,’ ‘God bless America.’ We salute our flag and give thanks to our troops, police officers and firefighters. If this offends you, you are welcome to leave. In God we trust.
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December 23, 2015 9:34pm
Manolo

The benefits of multiculturalism in Australia:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/western-sydney-raids-alleged-terrorist-cell-had-islamic-flag-photos-of-foreign-fighters-20151223-glu9jv.html

A terror cell allegedly conspiring to attack police buildings and a naval base in Sydney were found with a notepad full of scribbled plans, mobile phone photos of foreign fighters and an Islamic flag secreted in a family home.

Mohamed Rashad Almaouie, 20, and Abdullah Salihy, 24, were arrested on Wednesday, bringing to seven the number of men charged over the partially formed plot.
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December 23, 2015 9:38pm
Griff

Kimbo
I find it strange that a well know herb in the middle east for millennium has no reference in the bible.
It was defiantly used as a sacrament in religious devotion by tribes known to the Hebrews.
This was done by filling a tent with smoke
Isn’t there reference to that sort of thing in the bible?
Burning incense in the tent of the tabernacle .
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December 23, 2015 9:39pm
Kimbo

@ nasska

Not so fast with the pap & whitewash Kimbo :)…There are none so blind as those who will not see!

Not so fast with the victory-laps, nasska:

“…according to an article by Chris Bennett in the drugs magazine, High Times…”

Hmm. Now anyone wanna hazard a guess why we don’t just immediately accept the “findings” of now is it “Dr”, or “distinguished biblical/Ancient Near Eastern archaeological scholar” or “acknowledged expert”…Chris Bennett?

“…Mr Bennett argues..” Nope. Guess not. And funny, I don’t remember High Times being on any biblical studies reading lists. Anyone want to hazard a guess why?!

“Carl Ruck, professor of classical mythology at Boston University said….”

Question: what expertise does a professor of classical mythology have to comment on biblical studies:

http://www.bu.edu/classics/faculty-profiles/carl-a-p-ruck/

Answer: Almost none

“the incense used by Jesus in ceremonies also contained a cannabis extract, suggests Mr Bennett, who quotes scholars to back his claims.”

Translation: It ain’t proven, instead it is simply a contention…but as it is so anti-establishment and headline grabbing, you know why we had to report it!

But then there are none so susceptible to being sold the Brooklyn Bridge as those who are having their prejudices massaged 😉
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December 23, 2015 9:43pm
nasska

The Tent of Meeting:

…..”Now Moses used to take the tent and pitch it outside the camp, a good distance from the camp, and he called it the tent of meeting. And everyone who sought the LORD would go out to the tent of meeting which was outside the camp. 8And it came about, whenever Moses went out to the tent, that all the people would arise and stand, each at the entrance of his tent, and gaze after Moses until he entered the tent. 9Whenever Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent; and the LORD would speak with Moses”.…

http://biblehub.com/exodus/33-8.htm

They were stoned clean out of their minds! 🙂
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December 23, 2015 9:46pm
nasska

….”Question: what expertise does a professor of classical mythology have to comment on biblical studies: “…..

You don’t really want me to answer that? Surely! 🙂
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December 23, 2015 9:48pm
Kimbo

@ Griff

Kimbo
I find it strange that a well know herb in the middle east for millennium has no reference in the bible.
It was defiantly used as a sacrament in religious devotion by tribes known to the Hebrews.
This was done by filling a tent with smoke
Isn’t there reference to that sort of thing in the bible?
Burning incense in the tent of the tabernacle .

Yep. But then “I find it strange…” is not usually the basis for overturning much…especially when there are a lot of links, not to mention a non sequitur in your above proposed thread.

Now all you need to do is make a conclusive case that it was cannabis. Which thus far you have not – even though we all know you and nasska are wetting yourselves at the possibility! 😉 Here’s a suggestion – go to somewhere with a bit more weight in the scholarly community than…High Times.

But while you can’t polish a turd of a biblical theology/archaeology idea, nonetheless if you want see how to roll it in glitter and maybe make a million bucks in the process, bone up on a guy named Dan Brown and his ~~crap~~ series of books…
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December 23, 2015 9:57pm
Kimbo

@ nasska

….”Question: what expertise does a professor of classical mythology have to comment on biblical studies: “…..

You don’t really want me to answer that? Surely! 🙂

He he he. From the link:
Research Interests

Greek drama, Dionysian festivals and rituals, ancient Mystery religions, Orphism, Zoroaster, Mithraism, ancient Christian heretical sects, the role of entheogens in the evolution of human consciousness and religions, Mythology, secret sacraments in medieval and Renaissance art, ancient and medieval eschatology, fairy-tales and European folklore, secret societies and craft guilds, prehistoric rock art, Greek epigraphy, structural linguistics, Latin and Greek grammar, Mesoamerican shamanism.

So, no Hebrew or expertise in Semitic languages, no specialist interest in the religion of the Semitic-speaking world of the Fertile Crescent during the 2nd and 1st Millennium BC…but he can tell you about Dionysus…and Hansel and Gretel. Hmm. Good fit. And Griff objects to Maggy Wassileif claiming expertise in global warming?!
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December 23, 2015 10:06pm
Morrissey

Manolo at 9:35 pm: So that Texas grease-joint claims: “We salute our flag and give thanks to our troops, police officers…”

Does that include thanking the U.S. troops who bomb hospitals and handcuff terrified doctors, nurses and patients to the beds, like they did in Fallujah, Iraq?

Do these “proud” Texan grease-pushers also give thanks to the police officers who prey on, terrify and murder black and Latino kids all over the United States?
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December 23, 2015 10:11pm
starboard

The Police shoot the black ones morris because they normally have a gun in their hand and are either waving it about or shooting someone with it. They deserve to be shot..not once, not twice, but at least a dozen times. So morris, if you dont want to be shot by the Police..dont be waving da gun around..bro.
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December 23, 2015 10:20pm
Manolo

Yes, Morrissey. Most, if not all, are scumbags that deserve every bit of lead that comes their way.
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December 23, 2015 10:22pm
Yoza

Nostradamus (3,669 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 9:20 pm

Suppose that a majority of people accept that a government is legitimate, but a minority of people (including you) don’t.

There’s no one answer, different circumstances require different approaches. Where conflict has the potential to erupt or marginalised groups are being damaged by the exercise of authority there needs to be avenues through which they can challenge the legitimacy of that authority.

– Are you saying, on your suggested interpretation, that you would “opt out” of the decision-making process? And, if so, how do you reconcile being a beneficiary of government spending (funded by other taxpayers who accept that the government is legitimate) while refusing to be part of it?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Why would anyone willingly opt out of a process if they were to be subject to its outcome?

– Or are you saying that you would pay taxes and comply with your other legal obligations under protest?

I think most of us have a moral threshold which would force us to accept extreme discomfort if we thought the tax regime we contribute to or the legal obligations to which we were expected to comply were too repulsive to bear. I think it would require some pretty extreme circumstances to trigger that kind of response.

Kimbo (4,173 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 9:24 pm

Yes. So much apparent information…yet very vague, with no real answers or detailed process of how such a state of affairs – if it even exists (an unexamined assumption Yoza has injected into the discussion))- is to be addressed. Instead, vague slogans.

Good luck getting real answers out of Yoza…or stopping his facile sloganeering. Ironic for a guy and a political/ideological movement that supposedly holds others to account. In other words, your standard radical “99%” leftie.

I would be very wary of anybody claiming to have all the answers. All we can do is judge the decision making process by understanding who makes those decisions, who reaps the greatest reward as a consequence of the execution of those decisions and who bears the greatest burden of those decisions. I don’t think it’s that complicated and I think its blatantly obvious to anyone marginally conscious as to who makes the decisions, reaps the rewards and who bears the burden under the current system.
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December 23, 2015 10:34pm
KevinH

Morrissey:Getting emotional, frothing at the mouth and filled with anti american rage this lover of ISIS makes shit up:
Does that include thanking the U.S. troops who bomb hospitals and handcuff terrified doctors, nurses and patients to the beds, like they did in Fallujah, Iraq?
Morrissey: Ass licking blacks and hispanics who would blow him away for his wallet:
Do these “proud” Texan grease-pushers also give thanks to the police officers who prey on, terrify and murder black and Latino kids all over the United States?
Edit: Do us all a favour and fuck off back to that shit hole you crawled out of scumbag ie The Standard.
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December 23, 2015 10:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@ Kimbo

Maggy Wassileif claiming expertise in global warming?!

I’ve never claimed expertise in this topic. I’m in the same boat as any lay person….. wondering why this one tiny field of science is “settled”.

With respect to psychoactive plants/anointing oils/The Bible ….. kaneh-bosm is usually taken to be Sweet flag/calamus…
It has an ethnobotany to rival cannabis
http://sci.odu.edu/biology/directory/Motley_files/publications/Motley_Acorus.pdf
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December 23, 2015 10:46pm
Kimbo

@ Yoza

Suppose that a majority of people accept that a government is legitimate, but a minority of people (including you) don’t.

There’s no one answer, different circumstances require different approaches. Where conflict has the potential to erupt or marginalised groups are being damaged by the exercise of authority there needs to be avenues through which they can challenge the legitimacy of that authority.

Yet again, so vague as to be meaningless – yet also incongruous given the flat out denunciation of the present “evil order’. And marginalsied groups arguably have ‘avenues” in Western democratic nations – including the US from whence according to you all villainy emanates anyway – a vote.

– Are you saying, on your suggested interpretation, that you would “opt out” of the decision-making process? And, if so, how do you reconcile being a beneficiary of government spending (funded by other taxpayers who accept that the government is legitimate) while refusing to be part of it?

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Why would anyone willingly opt out of a process if they were to be subject to its outcome?

He he he. More shell game. Context shows Nostradamus is simply asking…will you cease to co-operate if you don’t get your way all the time…and what possible means is that to build a shared community, let alone draw upon any of its benefits!

– Or are you saying that you would pay taxes and comply with your other legal obligations under protest?

I think most of us have a moral threshold which would force us to accept extreme discomfort if we thought the tax regime we contribute to or the legal obligations to which we were expected to comply were too repulsive to bear. I think it would require some pretty extreme circumstances to trigger that kind of response.

He he he. Another sleight of hand. Nostradamus asks a personal and particular question of Yoza…and he generalises and universalises it to avoid being confronted with the moral and logical ambiguity and ultimate impracticality of his ideology.

I would be very wary of anybody claiming to have all the answers. All we can do is judge the decision making process by understanding who makes those decisions, who reaps the greatest reward as a consequence of the execution of those decisions and who bears the greatest burden of those decisions. I don’t think it’s that complicated and I think its blatantly obvious to anyone marginally conscious as to who makes the decisions, reaps the rewards and who bears the burden under the current system.

“All we can do..”? He he he. Love the sleight of hand. Of course there is much more we can do…and not do…such as adopt the Marxist/dialectic prism as a primary means of analysis…which you’ve just said is our only option.
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December 23, 2015 10:52pm
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassileif

I’ve never claimed expertise in this topic. I’m in the same boat as any lay person….. wondering why this one tiny field of science is “settled”.

With respect to psychoactive plants/anointing oils/The Bible ….. kaneh-bosm is usually taken to be Sweet flag/calamus…
It has an ethnobotany to rival cannabis

Thanks, Maggy. Put it this way, Griff likes to dismiss your doctorate (in the ‘hard science’ of botany, I believe) as completely irrelevant to your ability to assess the research and findings that supposedly underpin AGW. As I’ve argued elsewhere, that is not the case. Yet when it suits Griff he is prepared to call upon the insights of another scholar …who has no direct expertise in the matter under discussion, because he is so keen to have confirmed. So much for Griff’s respect for “academic and research rigour.”

And thanks also for your expertise in the matter of kaneh-bosm 😉
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December 23, 2015 11:00pm
Kimbo

@ Maggy Wassileif

From your link: During the reign of Henry VIII in England,
Cardinal Wolsey was brought up on the
charges of extravagance, not due to his extensive
land ownings but to his habit of importing, at
great expense, sweet flag reeds from the faraway
counties of Norfolk and Suffolk for his church
in London. He was found guilty and beheaded
(Elliott 1976).

Elliott, D. B. 1976. Roots. The Chatham Press, Old
Greenwich, CT.

Umm, Wolsey died en route before he could be tried and executed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Wolsey
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December 23, 2015 11:16pm
SGA

Headline on Stuff just now –
“Parents must watch kids on tramps”
Mind boggles.
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December 23, 2015 11:30pm
Yoza

Kimbo (4,178 comments) says:
December 23rd, 2015 at 10:52 pm

Yet again, so vague as to be meaningless – yet also incongruous given the flat out denunciation of the present “evil order’. And marginalsied groups arguably have ‘avenues” in Western democratic nations – including the US from whence according to you all villainy emanates anyway – a vote.

You’re trying to be funny, surely. People get to vote for candidates that don’t threaten the socioeconomic order. It’s just a more sophisticated version of the North Korean model, it doesn’t matter who you vote for as none of the candidates are a threat to the ruling authority.

[Nostradamus]

– Are you saying, on your suggested interpretation, that you would “opt out” of the decision-making process? And, if so, how do you reconcile being a beneficiary of government spending (funded by other taxpayers who accept that the government is legitimate) while refusing to be part of it?

[Yoza]

I’m not sure what you’re asking. Why would anyone willingly opt out of a process if they were to be subject to its outcome?

[Kimbo]He he he. More shell game. Context shows Nostradamus is simply asking…will you cease to co-operate if you don’t get your way all the time…and what possible means is that to build a shared community, let alone draw upon any of its benefits!

Refusing to cooperate because you don’t get your own way all the time tends to attract social opprobrium, especially in a community highly dependent on social cohesion. Not sure how this is a shell game.

[Nostradamus}

– Or are you saying that you would pay taxes and comply with your other legal obligations under protest?

[Yoza]

I think most of us have a moral threshold which would force us to accept extreme discomfort if we thought the tax regime we contribute to or the legal obligations to which we were expected to comply were too repulsive to bear. I think it would require some pretty extreme circumstances to trigger that kind of response.

[Kimbo]He he he. Another sleight of hand. Nostradamus asks a personal and particular question of Yoza…and he generalises and universalises it to avoid being confronted with the moral and logical ambiguity and ultimate impracticality of his ideology.

I think I gave a pretty straight forward answer. Yes, I would pay my taxes and meet my legal obligations under protest unless the taxation and legal obligations were unrealistically onerous.

[Yoza]

I would be very wary of anybody claiming to have all the answers. All we can do is judge the decision making process by understanding who makes those decisions, who reaps the greatest reward as a consequence of the execution of those decisions and who bears the greatest burden of those decisions. I don’t think it’s that complicated and I think its blatantly obvious to anyone marginally conscious as to who makes the decisions, reaps the rewards and who bears the burden under the current system.

[Kimbo]“All we can do..”? He he he. Love the sleight of hand. Of course there is much more we can do…and not do…such as adopt the Marxist/dialectic prism as a primary means of analysis…which you’ve just said is our only option.

You seem to be regressing to some kind of McCarthyesque delusion where any attempt to challenge the legitimacy of the reigning system is evidence of reds creeping from under the beds, I imagine the North Korean regime manages to keep everyone there in line by accusing its critics of parroting imperialist capitalist propaganda. Same trick, different illegitimate authority.
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December 23, 2015 11:51pm
Kimbo

@ Yoza

Refusing to cooperate because you don’t get your own way all the time tends to attract social opprobrium, especially in a community highly dependent on social cohesion. Not sure how this is a shell game.

The issue wasn’t “opprobrium”. It was the impracticality if everyone decided to do the same, irrespective of the system of government. Like I said, shell games.

I think I gave a pretty straight forward answer. Yes, I would pay my taxes and meet my legal obligations under protest unless the taxation and legal obligations were unrealistically onerous.

Which in the context of Nostradamus’ original questions (who decides…and how?) is a non-answer, as it doesn’t really tell us what those “unrealistic onerous” conditions were.

You seem to be regressing to some kind of McCarthyesque delusion where any attempt to challenge the legitimacy of the reigning system is evidence of reds creeping from under the beds, I imagine the North Korean regime manages to keep everyone there in line by accusing its critics of parroting imperialist capitalist propaganda. Same trick, different illegitimate authority.

Yawn. No, just amusing myself at the sight of your distractions that avoid answering direct and unambiguous questions about how to put your utterly unlivable ideas into practice…
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December 24, 2015 12:22am
Yoza

Kimbo (4,180 comments) says:
December 24th, 2015 at 12:22 am

The issue wasn’t “opprobrium”. It was the impracticality if everyone decided to do the same, irrespective of the system of government. Like I said, shell games.

Completely untrue, first you accused me of generalising, then when I rephrased my answer you moved the goal posts.

Which in the context of Nostradamus’ original questions (who decides…and how?) is a non-answer, as it doesn’t really tell us what those “unrealistic onerous” conditions were.

Unrealistically onerous would be expecting people to accept they were benefiting from a system that was detrimental to their health and potential development. I can’t help it if you lack the faculties to make such a simple intuitive leap, I’m guessing its the by-product of conditioning yourself to conform to a culture dedicated to serving a rigid corporate construct.

Yawn. No, just amusing myself at the sight of your distractions that avoid answering direct and unambiguous questions about how to put your utterly unlivable ideas into practice…

An interesting choice of words, “…utterly unlivable ideas into practice…”. The current system is rapidly demonstrating it is practising ideas which are ultimately unlivable. We are expected to accept there can be permanent economic growth in a relatively finite system, the primary necessity of perpetual economic growth is to protect a system that maintains the status and authority of a privileged elite minority. The decision making process has been so successfully captured by those elite interests a disproportionately vast portion of the global economy has been usurped to attend to their specific agenda, distorting the economy to serve that agenda is a cost borne by everyone else.

The only question is whether the system will collapse as a consequence of cascading ecological disasters or burgeoning social unrest. I’m hoping we will achieve the latter in time to prevent the former.
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December 24, 2015 1:16am
Gulag1917

Reality Check: Ted Cruz right that Middle East was Better Off with Hussein and Gaddaffi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1gVh_k2fJs
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December 24, 2015 1:58am
Kimbo

@ Yoza

I can’t help it if you lack the faculties to make such a simple intuitive leap, I’m guessing its the by-product of conditioning yourself to conform to a culture dedicated to serving a rigid corporate construct…

…The current system is rapidly demonstrating it is practising ideas which are ultimately unlivable. We are expected to accept there can be permanent economic growth in a relatively finite system, the primary necessity of perpetual economic growth is to protect a system that maintains the status and authority of a privileged elite minority. The decision making process has been so successfully captured by those elite interests a disproportionately vast portion of the global economy has been usurped to attend to their specific agenda, distorting the economy to serve that agenda is a cost borne by everyone else.

The only question is whether the system will collapse as a consequence of cascading ecological disasters or burgeoning social unrest. I’m hoping we will achieve the latter in time to prevent the former.

Uh, huh. And as I posted at 9:24pm

I was thinking of running a sweep stake on which of the three gambits Yoza was likely to employ in addressing them…

2. The UglyTruth bluff ’em response, i.e., “the answers are obvious, and I’ve told you, so it is your problem you can’t see”…followed by a whole heap of subsequent deflecting questions and untested assumptions to distract your attention and put the original interrogator back on the defensive. Very popular with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, btw.

…so good to see you know how to “mix it up” to avoid giving the straight answers that would uncover the bankruptcy of your ideology.
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December 24, 2015 3:19am
Griff

Griff likes to dismiss your doctorate (in the ‘hard science’ of botany, I believe) as completely irrelevant to your ability to assess the research and findings that supposedly underpin AGW. As I’ve argued elsewhere, that is not the case.

No Kimbo I dismiss the sources Maggy uses to dismiss the science
Some of the shit she quotes is absolute a grade fuckwittery .
This brings into call her mental state in quoting such transparently wrong sources.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/oct/13/christopher-booker
http://variable-variability.blogspot.de/2015/02/evil-nazi-communist-world-government.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/kevin-cowtan-debunks-christopher-booker-temp-conspiracy-theory.html
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December 24, 2015 5:55am

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