General Debate 23 July 2014

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mikenmild

Isn’t it about time we had a David Bain thread? It’s been a while.
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July 23, 2014 8:01am
jp_1983

Cant build anything in Wellington.
Lets just rip up all the roads around Wellington and make it illegal to move 5kms from your registered domicile.

Its a scary world out there..
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July 23, 2014 8:04am
OneTrack

Mike – Nooooo…..
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July 23, 2014 8:05am
Lance

What would be more fun than a barbwire enema?
I know;
A combined David Bain, Global warming, atheists hate Christians and lefties hating Israel thread. Logic would flow forth and the bonhomie would be endless.
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July 23, 2014 8:11am
stigie

Will there be an election bribe coming from Liarbore shortly ?
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July 23, 2014 8:17am
UglyTruth

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Foreknowledge of Gaza:

On 18 June 2014, less than 1 week after the disappearance of the 3 Israeli teenagers, 2 weeks before the discovery of the bodies, and 3 weeks before the massive Israeli bombing of Gaza, Israeli PM Netanyahu cancelled his trip to Australia. Netanyahu inexplicitly cited “recent developments” as his excuse for the cancellation.

When Netanyahu cancelled his trip to Australia on account of “recent developments” the state would not have known that the 3 kidnapped teenagers had been killed unless they were themselves involved in the killings.
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July 23, 2014 8:24am
jp_1983

Will there be an election bribe coming from Liarbore shortly ?

In conjunction with the Mana IP Party, we will close all prisons and give each prisioner $20,000.00 for hurt and suffering.
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July 23, 2014 8:26am
Lance

So UglyTruth is now saying Israel killed their own teenagers as an excuse to start a conflict.
So I guess you are also saying Israel is firing thousands of rockets at itself?

Ugly mate… you are fucked in the head!
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July 23, 2014 8:37am
EAD

Jeremy Warner, assistant editor of The Daily Telegraph today writes a powerful piece that slams central banks for being complicit in the biggest crime of all time as they slowly transfer wealth from the poor to the rich and destroy capitalism and free markets by way of their money manipulations that steals wealth from the producers of goods and services and transfers it to the rentier class of Bankers & Governments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/10981011/Have-central-banks-been-breaking-the-law.html

Time to end the Federal Reserve and Central Banking once and for all.
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July 23, 2014 8:38am
Scott Chris

Isn’t it about time we had a David Bain thread?

Well during the recent world cup the question was asked “Who would you prefer to rely on to convert a penalty in a penalty shoot-out?”

My answer was David Bain. He’s deadly at close range.
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July 23, 2014 8:55am
TimG_Oz

As news breaks of rockets at another UNRWA school (For Gods sake don’t give the rockets BACK to the terrorists this time), I can see no mention in NZ media that the EU has called on Hamas to disarm and condemned their use of Human Shields:

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/EU-calls-on-Hamas-to-disarm-condemns-use-of-civilians-as-shields-368509

This flies in the face of the “Moral Majority” crusaders of the hater brigade. It Would be nice to see it reported though…
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July 23, 2014 9:04am
G152

So UglyTruth is now saying Israel killed their own teenagers as an excuse to start a conflict.
So I guess you are also saying Israel is firing thousands of rockets at itself?

Ugly mate… you are fucked in the head!

He’s just another antiJewish nutter obviously with an IQ approaching that of warm lettuce.
And should be heckled at every point until he goes away.
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July 23, 2014 9:06am
Pete George

Kim Dotcom has been heavily criticised for holding back information until the Monday before election day to try and manipulate the election. Martyn Bradbury says that everything about the campaign up until then is irrelevant.

Whale Oil is also claiming to have damning information that will wreck the political ambitions of Dotcom and blow Mana away. And he too is holding it back until just before the election.

A battle of egos sneering at democracy.
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July 23, 2014 9:06am
Auberon

Just switched on Parliament. I see Denis O’Rourke has fresh coat of nugget on his noggin today.

DJ Steve must have flown up last night for one of their get togethers.
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July 23, 2014 9:10am
flipper

Wellingtonians, the NZLTA, and the Government should ensure that three idiots (below) are NEVER again let loose near any consent issue.

They are all part of the RMA / planning /legal industrial complex, with noses blocked from having pigged-out once too often.

Come to think of it, post September 20, let us have done with this sort of crap, let’s have a repeat of the National War memorial legislation, and let’s get on with the fly over and the rest of the development ……or tolerate a road to no where. .

According to Stuff, HOW THE BOARD VOTED

AGAINST

Judge Gordon Whiting, chairman
Retired Environment and District Court judge who has chaired boards of inquiry for NZ King Salmon, Te Mihi and Tauhara II geothermal power station applications.
James Baines
Has 31 years’ experience as a practising consultant and researcher in the social policy field. Experience with environmental noise effects, social assessment of CBD development and structure planning.
David Collins
Principal of Collins Consulting since 2000 and a hearing commissioner for more than 20 years. Has particular expertise in roading designations and developing transportation models.

FOR
David McMahon
Accredited independent hearing commissioner and resource management consultant; expertise in statutory planning. Commissioner on hearings for the Overseas Passenger Terminal, and West Wind and Mill Creek wind farms.
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July 23, 2014 9:13am
Auberon

I couldn’t agree more flipper – they’re an ABSOLUTE BLOODY DISGRACE.
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July 23, 2014 9:15am
Rick Rowling

So Kim Dotcom jokes about killing prostitutes, and only NewsTalk ZB & Yahoo NZ in the MSM pick up on it. What’s that about?

The silence from the left is also deafening – I’d love to see the MSM & left blog comment rate if it was a Nat, Act, Conservative, Dunne supporter making such comments.
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July 23, 2014 9:18am
Gulag1917

Somebody trying to restart the Cold War?
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/
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July 23, 2014 9:20am
EAD

I see that two more massive “full and final” (yeah right) treaty deals are about to be signed off by the crown.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10298030/Treaty-deals-await-Crown-decision

Here are some random thoughts:

Why don’t these Maori tribes ask other Maori tribes for compensation for things like Cannibalism which was rife until the evil whitey stopped it?

Can they show the lives they now live in NZ is worse than they would be otherwise if the Europeans didn’t bring them the rule of law, modern technology, education, medicines etc to these lands? Are there any other examples of stone age cultures progressing to civilisation in the last 200 years? Should we be asking the Maori elite for compensation for all the gifts we bought them?

When the MSM says “settle with the crown”, do they really mean, “take money from fellow citizens”?

Of all these so called “crimes” committed – when did the last “criminal” and last “victim” pass away? Can I ask the Italians for some compensation, after all the Romans once ruled Britain where my ancestors used to live? Truth be told, I’d like to make a claim against that bast*rd pontius pilate!

Why does this growing apartheid system continue to expand and subsume our nation no matter whether the blue team or red team are in power?
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July 23, 2014 9:23am
Manolo

Madness from the comrades at The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents
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July 23, 2014 9:24am
Griff

latest global temperature report just relased for June 2014
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2014/6
The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for June 2014 was the highest on record for the month, at 0.72°C (1.30°F) above the 20th century average of 15.5°C (59.9°F).
The global land surface temperature was 0.95°C (1.71°F) above the 20th century average of 13.3°C (55.9°F), the seventh highest for June on record.
For the ocean, the June global sea surface temperature was 0.64°C (1.15°F) above the 20th century average of 16.4°C (61.5°F), the highest for June on record and the highest departure from average for any month.

New Zealand observed its warmest June since national records began in 1909. The warmth was notable for both its intensity and coverage, according to NIWA, with above-average temperatures from the northernmost of the North Island to the southernmost of the South Island.
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July 23, 2014 9:31am
EAD

@ Gulag 9.20am – excellent link, sums things up brilliantly

@ Manolo 9.24am – the Guardian is known for writing some serious horsesh*t but that takes the cake.

“Time to ban Thomas the Tanks Engine that evil racist, sexist, anti-environment and bigoted programme!!”

Really you couldn’t make it up but in our brave new world I think this author is actually serious.
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July 23, 2014 9:31am
hj

RMA changes to support growth, create jobs
https://www.national.org.nz/news/news/media-releases/detail/2011/11/01/rma-changes-to-support-growth-create-jobs

Can any more destructive and regressive measures be crammed into one bill?
Already, the Infrastructure Bill, which, as time goes by, has ever less to do with infrastructure, looks like one of those US monstrosities into which a random collection of demands by corporate lobbyists are shoved, in the hope that no one notices.
So far it contains (or is due to contain) the following assaults on civilisation and the natural world:
– It exempts fracking companies from the trespass laws
– Brings in a legal requirement for the government to maximise the economic recovery of petroleum from the UK’s continental shelf. This is directly at odds with another legal requirement: to minimise the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions
– Abandons the government’s commitment to make all new homes zero-carbon by 2016
– Introduces the possibility (through Clauses 21 and 22) of a backdoor route to selling off the public forest estate. When this was attempted before, it was thwarted by massive public protest.
– further deregulates the town and country planning system, making life even harder for those who wish to protect natural beauty and public amenities
– promotes new road building, even though the total volume of road traffic has flatlined since 2002.

http://www.monbiot.com/2014/07/22/a-one-way-street-to-oblivion/
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July 23, 2014 9:32am
flipper

Hamas et al V Israel

If you have not already seen it, the video (link) included in this email is simple to access.
One can debate some detail, but the thesis advanced is simple and accurate.

As one who is NOT Jewish I believe it fairly presents both the nature of the problem, and the solution.

It is the sort of video that should be should be thrust up the nose of that red melon Green, Kennedy Graham, and somewhere equally dark and nasty for that professional protestor, John Minto, and other equally dim-witted types.
.
One commentator (Can Slater) describes the video this way: “The Middle East conflict is framed as one of the most complex problems in the world. But, in reality, it’s very simple. Israelis want to live in peace and are willing to accept a neighboring Palestinian state. And most Palestinians do not want Israel to exist.
As Dennis Prager explains, this is really all you need to know.
In 5 minutes, understand how Israel was founded, and how, since that auspicious day in 1948, its neighbors have tried to destroy it, again and again.”

Watch, listen, recall or learn …..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDW88CBo-8
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July 23, 2014 9:33am
mikenmild

flipper
All you need to know about that video can be discerned from the opening frame, which shows the borders of Israel untroubled by any Palestinian state.
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July 23, 2014 9:40am
Judith

Why don’t these Maori tribes ask other Maori tribes for compensation for things like Cannibalism which was rife until the evil whitey stopped it?

Because they didn’t have treaty with them that stated they would be entitled to certain things.

Can you show that their lives wouldn’t have been better? We do not know for sure what would have happened, and therefore can only work with what did happen.

Re Last victim – if your father was robbed of his wealth, or ability to make wealth, would it effect you? Would your lack of opportunity due to that action, not also effect your children’s ability? I do not think the last victim of colonisation has been born yet. In some ways, those of us whose ancestors were the colonisers are also victims, we are all paying for acts that were wrong.
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July 23, 2014 9:45am
Dead Earnest

Agree Flipper completely re Interim Decision on Basin Flyover.
Party in Wellington today for all knuckle dragging, cannabis smoking NIMBY cave dwellers.
They seem to have successfully scuttled a critical artery unblocking operation that may have saved Wellington from contiuing to “die”
If the fly over doesn’t happen the doubling of the Terrace and Mt Vic tunnels won’t happen and visitors to Wellington well continue to leave the airport and end up in a 3rd World traffic clogged labyrinth.
Fully support the call for speciall legislation to bypass the bureaucratic logjaming apparatchniks
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July 23, 2014 9:53am
kowtow

It’s not just the “Palestinians” who don’t want to live in peace alongside the Israelis.
The Arab Muslim world hates Jews (Saudi Arabia funds the arms race against Israel)and wants it gone too.
And the rest of the Muslim world hates Jews too.

Much of this has as much to do with the historic hatred and enmity for Jews in the Koran as it does with Israel itself.

People need to educate themselves about how hate filled and violent the Koran is, as indeed was Mohammed’s ministry.
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July 23, 2014 10:00am
flipper

mikenmild (10,599 comments) says:

July 23rd, 2014 at 9:40 am

**********

The milksop, never changing, a dim-witted a’hole, who makes specious comments, but does not challenge the accuracy of the presentation, or the obvious solution.

It is time, Milksop, for you to grow up, show an ability assimilate fact, while rejecting Goebbels-like bullshit from Hamas, and the left, or to shut T F up.
🙂
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July 23, 2014 10:01am
Griff

“acts that were wrong”
There is your problem nursy
Was it wrong for civilization to spread?
Should we have isolated the Maori so they could continue to kill and eat them self’s indiscriminately ? remember at least 25% of the population was killed in tribal warfare between contact and 1840.
Are the English at fault for for the musket wars by allowing free trade before they took over the governance of nz?
Who do we compensate the original inhabitants or tribes that took over after contact was first made?
you mentioned father….
Its great great great great great great great grandfather .
Who before 1840 had zero right over the land or resources he held besides the shifting sands of inter tribal warfare .
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July 23, 2014 10:03am
hj

Can’t recall so much wet weather in Chch. Every day is wet, wet, wet. We used to average 93 frost days /year (?).
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July 23, 2014 10:04am
James Stephenson

My answer was David Bain. He’s deadly at close range.

In football, you don’t get a second chance to send the ‘keeper the wrong way.
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July 23, 2014 10:09am
mikenmild

flipper
You just carry on in your myopic state, accepting never-ending conflict because that fits with your imagination of how the world should be.
I posted this link yesterday. I think it’s a better overview.
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5902177/9-questions-about-the-israel-palestine-conflict-you-were-too
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July 23, 2014 10:15am
Rick Rowling

if your father was robbed of his wealth, or ability to make wealth, would it effect you? Would your lack of opportunity due to that action, not also effect your children’s ability?

Your belief that the wrong done to your ancestor would be the biggest impediment to your future.

You just need to look at immigrants over the last 150 years (including but not limited to Chinese immigrants) who have arrived in New Zealand with very little money, no other assets, often little to no English, as well as being on the receiving end of atrocious racism, who have, through hard work, done really well – certainly within two to three generations.
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July 23, 2014 10:16am
oldpark

Anyone know what the vicious derogarty comments Scmidz/Dotcon said about hookers.Whatever is was he has THE PROSTITUTES COLLECTIVE on the warpath.More and more he is confirming the advice regarding him, and also ignored by immigration dept when he was lying to get into NZ.the words were “.he was a BAD BAD MAN”.Wonder now what part of the mentioned words the immigration official couldn’t understand,when he rubber stamped his admittance to NZ.
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July 23, 2014 10:20am
edhunter

It went something like this:
Hi I’m Batman
I mean Bruce Wayne
Damn
Dead Hooker

this is still on twitter

Laila: “I don’t like your Batman joke”
Me:
Laila: “Delete it”
Me: But
Laila: “DELETE IT”
Me: Ok. Sorry.
Laila: “Good boy”
*still shivering*
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July 23, 2014 10:31am
hj

flipper (3,527 comments) says:
That video says the MI situation is simple ” Jews want to live by arabs; but arabs want to kill the jews” More subtler is the fact that the state of Israel grew like a cuckoo’s egg in anothers nest as jews encouraged other jews to emigrate. Arabs who retaliated were defeated and forced out (?). The fact that the UN was involved doesn’t make it right as the UN isn’t infallible. In the past one side would have wiped the other out.
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July 23, 2014 10:32am
UglyTruth

So UglyTruth is now saying Israel killed their own teenagers as an excuse to start a conflict.

No, what I’m saying is that if the Zionists murdered the teenagers then they would be true to their historical form, eg the Lavon Affair, the attack of the USS Liberty, the Sabra and Shatilla massacres, and their involvement in 9/11.

Israel and the Zionist state are two very different things. Israel has a historical connection to deity, but the Zionist state is secular.
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July 23, 2014 10:33am
dime

joking about offing a hooker is some terrible thing now?

give me strength.

its not like they arent already dead on the inside anyway
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July 23, 2014 10:33am
dime

im reading about quite a few Israeli deaths now. the left must be STOKED!

thats all i heard last week – so many ragheads dead, no israelis wah wah wah

like war is meant to be a fair fight ffs
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July 23, 2014 10:34am
Pete George

@KimDotcom:

Hi, I’m Batman.

I MEAN BRUCE.

Shit.

*kills hooker*

Now deleted, but not before he excused himself for saying it:

If you’re not using Twitter however the heck you want to You’re doing it wrong 😉

That was at 2.37 pm. Then he went on to make a joke about deleting it.

Laila: “I don’t like your Batman joke”
Me:
Laila: “Delete it”
Me: But
Laila: “DELETE IT”
Me: Ok. Sorry.
Laila: “Good boy” *still shivering*

That was at 3.14 – took him a while to get the message.

A lot of the criticism had been directed at Harre, asking her if she thought it was ok. If Dotcom wan’ts to be a big part of the IMP show he is going to be held responsible for whatever he says publicly.
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July 23, 2014 10:36am
UglyTruth

He’s just another antiJewish nutter obviously with an IQ approaching that of warm lettuce.

I’m not anti Jewish. Many Palestinians are Jewish or have Jewish ancestry, and I’m arguing against the state which is attacking them.
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July 23, 2014 10:36am
Redbaiter

“Why does this growing apartheid system continue to expand and subsume our nation no matter whether the blue team or red team are in power?”

Because whitebait keep voting for it.

Everyone knows Key & Finlayson dance to the tune of the separatists and self enriching racist fakes who calll themselves Maori, but about 30% of the voting population are going to give them the power this election to continue as normal.

And that 30% is all it takes to empower them.
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July 23, 2014 10:37am
UglyTruth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-YA8yg4IwE
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July 23, 2014 10:43am
Griff

dime (9,353 comments) says:
July 23rd, 2014 at 10:33 am

joking about offing a hooker is some terrible thing now?

give me strength.

its not like they arent already dead on the inside anyway

Dime you have just admitted to your fetich for necrophilia.
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July 23, 2014 10:45am
lilman

Ugly you are so right about the Israeli mud ears of the three teens .

I have it on good advice that a police car was seen speeding in the area at the Wellington that very day so hence it’s the polices fault.

You really are a penis Ugly,what a waste of sperm.
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July 23, 2014 10:46am
Pete George

joking about offing a hooker is some terrible thing now?

give me strength.

its not like they arent already dead on the inside anyway

That’s an awful comment.

And an odd attitude considering how much dime used to talk about how much he used prostitutes.
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July 23, 2014 10:47am
Ashley Schaeffer

Dead hooker jokes. Is Dotcom angling for the Christchurch vote?
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July 23, 2014 10:49am
UglyTruth

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ordered three US carriers that fly to Israel – Delta, United and US Airways – to halt flights for 24 hours.

Europe’s aviation regulator is also urging airlines not to fly to Tel Aviv.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28427236
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July 23, 2014 10:54am
backster

Griff my model shows that next July will be warmer than this July.
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July 23, 2014 10:56am
stephieboy

This interesting from Time magazine: Russia Today and how it distorts the Truth and facts to advance the propaganda agenda of Putin and Kremlin from one who does know, Sara Firth. She joined RT to become an on air correspondent with a lavish salary. Evidently she must of had a crises of conscience and resigned after she became fed up with the way RT was distorting and manipulating the facts behind the circumstances surrounding the downing of MH17.
Some excerpts ,

“The crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 exposes the truth about RT, the Russian English-language propaganda outlet
“Firth was no dupe. She knew the politics of her paymasters. “We are lying every single day at RT,” she explained Monday afternoon in a phone interview from England. “There are a million different ways to lie, and I really learned that at RT.”

“This is how RT works, explains Firth: by arranging facts to fit a fantasy.”
“What they do is a very smart, slick way of manipulating reality,” she says. “In Ukraine, you’re taking a very small part of a much wider story, totally omitted the context of the story, and so what you wind up with on air is outright misinformation.”

“For five years, you’re kind of fighting against this—and with your colleagues you’re rolling your eyes and making jokes,” she says. “The worst-kept secret is that RT is blatant propaganda. I’m one in a very long line of people who have left for the same reason. Everyone has their breaking point. I wish I had done it sooner. But I didn’t.”

http://time.com/3014822/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-rt-russian-television/?xid=newsletter-brie

R T a propaganda machine ,that even Joseph Goebbels would envy, is a bastion for the Conspiracy and far left and right industry who all uncritically and mindlessly parrot and accept it as gospel . Just yesterday one of them ,Lew Rockwell.com, simply copy and pasted a mish mash of RT and other official Russian media reports concluding they were all true without any critical analysis or regard to the evidence and facts ,

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/no_author/awkward-questions-for-us-ukraine/
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July 23, 2014 10:56am
dime

“Dime you have just admitted to your fetich for necrophilia.”

Dime doesnt cold pack.

“And an odd attitude considering how much dime used to talk about how much he used prostitutes.”

I use taxis too. Still speak badly of most drivers.
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July 23, 2014 11:00am
Jack5

How would feminists take this in NZ – wider parking spaces for women drivers?

A mall in northern China has provided special wide parking spaces for women, saying women had trouble parking in standard spaces. The women’s spaces are marked in pink paint.

One online Chinese poster is said to have said of the mall’s car parking: “The two most dangerous things in the world are men who cook and women who drive.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/20/asia-pacific/social-issues-asia-pacific/women-given-bigger-parking-spaces/#.U85I4_mSx8E
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July 23, 2014 11:03am
UglyTruth

US backs off accusations against Russia:

US Secretary of State John Kerry said on Sunday that “enormous amounts of evidence” indicated a Russian missile was used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17

http://www.smh.com.au/world/john-kerry-says-us-has-enormous-amounts-of-evidence-linking-russia-with-mh17-disaster-20140721-zv4mz.html

WASHINGTON — Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for “creating the conditions” that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.

The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/no-direct-link-to-russia-in-downing-of-flight-mh17-u-s-officials-1.1925639
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July 23, 2014 11:05am
Jack5

After the Ukraine tragedy, what are world airlines doing about avoiding other trouble spots?

Either side in Syria might grab the chance of downing an airliner, yet didn’t I read that airlines are still flying through Syrian air space?

The link below shows two Qantas flights passed over Iraq on Monday, and that’s nearly as dangerous as Syria.

WHOOPS! I got straight in from Google, but the link takes you to an please pay stop. If you want to read about the Qantas flights go through Google.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/mh17/airlines-still-flying-over-trouble-spots/story-fno88it0-1226996659476?nk=4eb847bdd8fe3de3b2bfa14cc6c048e8
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July 23, 2014 11:11am
Jack5

One for the foreign exchange “strategists”, bank economists, and political PR’s who have been spruiking China-dependent NZ as the land of the “rock star economy”:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100027691/chinas-terrifying-debt-ratios-poised-to-breeze-past-us-levels/
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July 23, 2014 11:20am
goldnkiwi

Guess it shows what he thought of any ‘hookers’ that he may have ‘frequented’ at clubs, and one will add that an attitude to women in general.
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July 23, 2014 11:20am
goldnkiwi

Auckland council wants people to count their chickens. Mrs Cunliffe might be annoyed if hers are restricted as well as possible restrictions mooted regarding urban beekeeping. That one where it already applies should be put to the Government under their new initiative regarding silly local gov.t regulations.
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July 23, 2014 11:23am
Fletch

So Kim Dotcom jokes about killing prostitutes, and only NewsTalk ZB & Yahoo NZ in the MSM pick up on it. What’s that about?

You’ll be glad to know I saw a report on it on Prime News at 5.30pm.
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July 23, 2014 11:26am
Pete George

Stuff also included it in Today in Politics:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10297839/Today-in-politics-Wednesday-July-23
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July 23, 2014 11:34am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth,

The latest US intelligence assessment is that the Rebels simply made a mistake , albeit a tragic and colossal one . I think thats been very charitable and sporting of them.

Very plausible too.!

You ?, or do you believe some conspiracy theories like e.g. the Flight controls on M17 were hacked .? Another that the the flight was apparently carrying dead passengers in the first place as part of a set up..??

You might want to add to the list .

Finally Sara Firth ex RT a Zionist shill. or stooge ?
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July 23, 2014 11:36am
UglyTruth

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
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July 23, 2014 11:41am
Griff

backster (2,070 comments) says:
July 23rd, 2014 at 10:56 am

Griff my model shows that next July will be warmer than this July.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/lanina/enso_evolution-status-fcsts-web.pdf
Chance of El Niño is about 70% during the Northern Hemisphere summer and
is close to 80% during the fall and winter.
Chance that next July will be warmer globally than this one is better than 80%…
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July 23, 2014 11:45am
flipper

Heh folks..

Did y’all spot those nasty Mossad agents, disguised at the “caliph’s avenging swords”, destroying all those 1600 odd year old Christian churches in Iraq ???

Surely y’all must have seen them. No?

Did you hear the screams of outrage from the milkyone and his fellow travellers?

Does it matter that those churches were in Iraq long before the bullshitting Islamic prophet was conceived??? Yeahh, nah.

It is all rather similar to what milky’s Taliban friends did in Afghanistan, is it not?????
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July 23, 2014 11:47am
Fletch

Here’s another slightly longer video of the history of Israel and the Palestinians that goes into even greater depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U

One of the things I noticed is that Israel has made repeated attempts at offering the Arabs their own state and they are ALWAYS rejected. The Arabs were even offered 80% of the area during the Peel commission in 1937 (leaving the Jews with 20%, and which the Jews said they would accept), yet the Arabs rejected this offer.

1937

The Peel Commission’s final report, published in July 1937, concluded that the conflict was insoluble within a single state. Instead, it proposed a second Palestine partition (the first being the 1921 severing of Transjordan from the rest of the mandate). The Jews were offered an independent state in a small enclave along the seacoast from Tel Aviv to the north of the country, constituting about 20 percent of the remaining mandate territory, while the Palestinian Arabs would get 80 percent for their own state. Desperate for any means to be able to bring in large numbers of the endangered European Jews, the Zionists reluctantly accepted the commission’s partition plan . Led by the mufti, the AHC rejected partition out of hand and pressed on with the armed revolt against the mandate. The Palestinians’ rejection of the Peel Commission recommendations that would have given them control of 80 percent of the disputed land stands out like a beacon in the history of the conflict. It puts the lie to the claim that the Zionists came to Palestine with dreams of conquest and dispossession of the indigenous people. And for the next 75 years, the same pattern would repeat itself again and again : Zionist willingness to compromise met by Palestinian rejection and Jew hatred.

1947

The United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) 50/50 partition plan.
By a vote of 7 to 3, UNSCOP recommended a partition plan to the General Assembly. Zionist officials made it clear they would accept the plan, while the AHC offered the same three noes it had been repeating since the 1930s: no partition, no Jewish state, no Jewish presence on their Arab land. AHC official Jamal Husseini (the mufti’s first cousin) announced that if the U.N. tried to implement partition, “the blood will flow like rivers in the Middle East.” (Palestinians were very fond of the “rivers of blood” metaphor.) Fawzi al-Qawuqji, one of the military commanders of the 1937 Arab Revolt who had also spent the war years in Berlin, said that if the vote went against the Palestinians, “we will have to initiate total war. We will murder, wreck, and ruin everything standing in our way, be it English, American, or Jewish.” Shortly after the the U.N. vote, the 20-member Arab League appointed al-Qawuqji as the field commander of the newly organized Arab Liberation Army. As the ALA infiltrated into Palestine, Arab League Secretary General Abdul Rahman Azzam vowed, “This war will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades.” 10 Elements of five regular Arab armies – Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon – invaded Israel on May 15, 1948 . After a year of fighting, the Jewish state had won a decisive victory.

2000

At Camp David in 2000, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak agreed to the borders suggested by President Clinton that would have established a West Bank/Gaza Palestinian state with some territorial adjustments and with the Palestinians getting East Jerusalem as their capital. Palestine Liberation Organization Chairman Yasser Arafat walked out of the negotiations, went back home, and launched the second intifada. Invoking Islamic Jew hatred as justification, the Palestinians conducted a three-year brutal campaign of suicide bombings against Israeli pizza parlors, wedding halls, and discotheques.

2008

In a September 2008 meeting in Jerusalem, then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert presented Abbas with a detailed map of a future Palestinian state that, with land swaps, would constitute close to 100 percent of the territory of the West Bank and Gaza prior to the June 1967 war. Olmert also offered to divide Jerusalem, enabling the Palestinians to locate their capital in the eastern half of the city. Olmert also made it clear, however, that he would never agree to the right of return for the 1948 Palestinian refugees – for the obvious reason that it would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state. This had to be understood up front; otherwise, negotiations on the other issues could not be successful.
Promising to come back the next day for further discussions, Abbas took Olmert’s map to his Ramallah office (just a few miles outside Jerusalem) for his aides to study. But Abbas never returned with the map. This was the last time the Israeli and Palestinian leaders met.
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July 23, 2014 11:49am
flipper

Stevie, Ugly et al….

George Friedman ( en passant, Leighton Smith’s B in L) who owns/runs Stratfor is worth reading for his take on Putin and Ukraine:

“…. Can Putin Survive?
July 21, 2014 | 2105 GMT

Stratfor
By George Friedman

There is a general view that Vladimir Putin governs the Russian Federation as a dictator, that he has defeated and intimidated his opponents and that he has marshalled a powerful threat to surrounding countries. This is a reasonable view, but perhaps it should be re-evaluated in the context of recent events.
Ukraine and the Bid to Reverse Russia’s Decline
Ukraine is, of course, the place to start. The country is vital to Russia as a buffer against the West and as a route for delivering energy to Europe, which is the foundation of the Russian economy. On Jan. 1, Ukraine’s president was Viktor Yanukovich, generally regarded as favorably inclined to Russia. Given the complexity of Ukrainian society and politics, it would be unreasonable to say Ukraine under him was merely a Russian puppet. But it is fair to say that under Yanukovich and his supporters, fundamental Russian interests in Ukraine were secure.
This was extremely important to Putin. Part of the reason Putin had replaced Boris Yeltsin in 2000 was Yeltsin’s performance during the Kosovo war. Russia was allied with the Serbs and had not wanted NATO to launch a war against Serbia. Russian wishes were disregarded. The Russian views simply didn’t matter to the West. Still, when the air war failed to force Belgrade’s capitulation, the Russians negotiated a settlement that allowed U.S. and other NATO troops to enter and administer Kosovo. As part of that settlement, Russian troops were promised a significant part in peacekeeping in Kosovo. But the Russians were never allowed to take up that role, and Yeltsin proved unable to respond to the insult.
Putin also replaced Yeltsin because of the disastrous state of the Russian economy. Though Russia had always been poor, there was a pervasive sense that it been a force to be reckoned with in international affairs. Under Yeltsin, however, Russia had become even poorer and was now held in contempt in international affairs. Putin had to deal with both issues. He took a long time before moving to recreate Russian power, though he said early on that the fall of the Soviet Union had been the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century. This did not mean he wanted to resurrect the Soviet Union in its failed form, but rather that he wanted Russian power to be taken seriously again, and he wanted to protect and enhance Russian national interests.
The breaking point came in Ukraine during the Orange Revolution of 2004. Yanukovich was elected president that year under dubious circumstances, but demonstrators forced him to submit to a second election. He lost, and a pro-Western government took office. At that time, Putin accused the CIA and other Western intelligence agencies of having organized the demonstrations. Fairly publicly, this was the point when Putin became convinced that the West intended to destroy the Russian Federation, sending it the way of the Soviet Union. For him, Ukraine’s importance to Russia was self-evident. He therefore believed that the CIA organized the demonstration to put Russia in a dangerous position, and that the only reason for this was the overarching desire to cripple or destroy Russia. Following the Kosovo affair, Putin publicly moved from suspicion to hostility to the West.
The Russians worked from 2004 to 2010 to undo the Orange Revolution. They worked to rebuild the Russian military, focus their intelligence apparatus and use whatever economic influence they had to reshape their relationship with Ukraine. If they couldn’t control Ukraine, they did not want it to be controlled by the United States and Europe. This was, of course, not their only international interest, but it was the pivotal one.
Russia’s invasion of Georgia had more to do with Ukraine than it had to do with the Caucasus. At the time, the United States was still bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan. While Washington had no formal obligation to Georgia, there were close ties and implicit guarantees. The invasion of Georgia was designed to do two things. The first was to show the region that the Russian military, which had been in shambles in 2000, was able to act decisively in 2008. The second was to demonstrate to the region, and particularly to Kiev, that American guarantees, explicit or implicit, had no value. In 2010, Yanukovich was elected president of Ukraine, reversing the Orange Revolution and limiting Western influence in the country.
Recognizing the rift that was developing with Russia and the general trend against the United States in the region, the Obama administration tried to recreate older models of relationships when Hillary Clinton presented Putin with a “restart” button in 2009. But Washington wanted to restore the relationship in place during what Putin regarded as the “bad old days.” He naturally had no interest in such a restart. Instead, he saw the United States as having adopted a defensive posture, and he intended to exploit his advantage.
One place he did so was in Europe, using EU dependence on Russian energy to grow closer to the Continent, particularly Germany. But his high point came during the Syrian affair, when the Obama administration threatened airstrikes after Damascus used chemical weapons only to back off from its threat. The Russians aggressively opposed Obama’s move, proposing a process of negotiations instead. The Russians emerged from the crisis appearing decisive and capable, the United States indecisive and feckless. Russian power accordingly appeared on the rise, and in spite of a weakening economy, this boosted Putin’s standing.
The Tide Turns Against Putin
Events in Ukraine this year, by contrast, have proved devastating to Putin. In January, Russia dominated Ukraine. By February, Yanukovich had fled the country and a pro-Western government had taken power. The general uprising against Kiev that Putin had been expecting in eastern Ukraine after Yanukovich’s ouster never happened. Meanwhile, the Kiev government, with Western advisers, implanted itself more firmly. By July, the Russians controlled only small parts of Ukraine. These included Crimea, where the Russians had always held overwhelming military force by virtue of treaty, and a triangle of territory from Donetsk to Luhansk to Severodonetsk, where a small number of insurgents apparently supported by Russian special operations forces controlled a dozen or so towns.
If no Ukrainian uprising occurred, Putin’s strategy was to allow the government in Kiev to unravel of its own accord and to split the United States from Europe by exploiting Russia’s strong trade and energy ties with the Continent. And this is where the crash of the Malaysia Airlines jet is crucial. If it turns out — as appears to be the case — that Russia supplied air defense systems to the separatists and sent crews to man them (since operating those systems requires extensive training), Russia could be held responsible for shooting down the plane. And this means Moscow’s ability to divide the Europeans from the Americans would decline. Putin then moves from being an effective, sophisticated ruler who ruthlessly uses power to being a dangerous incompetent supporting a hopeless insurrection with wholly inappropriate weapons. And the West, no matter how opposed some countries might be to a split with Putin, must come to grips with how effective and rational he really is.
Meanwhile, Putin must consider the fate of his predecessors. Nikita Khrushchev returned from vacation in October 1964 to find himself replaced by his protege, Leonid Brezhnev, and facing charges of, among other things, “harebrained scheming.” Khrushchev had recently been humiliated in the Cuban missile crisis. This plus his failure to move the economy forward after about a decade in power saw his closest colleagues “retire” him. A massive setback in foreign affairs and economic failures had resulted in an apparently unassailable figure being deposed.
Russia’s economic situation is nowhere near as catastrophic as it was under Khrushchev or Yeltsin, but it has deteriorated substantially recently, and perhaps more important, has failed to meet expectations. After recovering from the 2008 crisis, Russia has seen several years of declining gross domestic product growth rates, and its central bank is forecasting zero growth this year. Given current pressures, we would guess the Russian economy will slide into recession sometime in 2014. The debt levels of regional governments have doubled in the past four years, and several regions are close to bankruptcy. Moreover, some metals and mining firms are facing bankruptcy. The Ukrainian crisis has made things worse. Capital flight from Russia in the first six months stood at $76 billion, compared to $63 billion for all of 2013. Foreign direct investment fell 50 percent in the first half of 2014 compared to the same period in 2013. And all this happened in spite of oil prices remaining higher than $100 per barrel.
Putin’s popularity at home soared after the successful Sochi Winter Olympics and after the Western media made him look like the aggressor in Crimea. He has, after all, built his reputation on being tough and aggressive. But as the reality of the situation in Ukraine becomes more obvious, the great victory will be seen as covering a retreat coming at a time of serious economic problems. For many leaders, the events in Ukraine would not represent such an immense challenge. But Putin has built his image on a tough foreign policy, and the economy meant his ratings were not very high before Ukraine.
Imagining Russia After Putin
In the sort of regime that Putin has helped craft, the democratic process may not be the key to understanding what will happen next. Putin has restored Soviet elements to the structure of the government, even using the term “Politburo” for his inner Cabinets. These are all men of his choosing, of course, and so one might assume they would be loyal to him. But in the Soviet-style Politburo, close colleagues were frequently the most feared.
The Politburo model is designed for a leader to build coalitions among factions. Putin has been very good at doing that, but then he has been very successful at all the things he has done until now. His ability to hold things together declines as trust in his abilities declines and various factions concerned about the consequences of remaining closely tied to a failing leader start to maneuver. Like Khrushchev, who was failing in economic and foreign policy, Putin could have his colleagues remove him.
It is difficult to know how a succession crisis would play out, given that the constitutional process of succession exists alongside the informal government Putin has created. From a democratic standpoint, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin are as popular as Putin is, and I suspect they both will become more popular in time. In a Soviet-style struggle, Chief of Staff Sergei Ivanov and Security Council Chief Nicolai Patryushev would be possible contenders. But there are others. Who, after all, expected the emergence of Mikhail Gorbachev?
Ultimately, politicians who miscalculate and mismanage tend not to survive. Putin miscalculated in Ukraine, failing to anticipate the fall of an ally, failing to respond effectively and then stumbling badly in trying to recoup. His management of the economy has not been exemplary of late either, to say the least. He has colleagues who believe they could do a better job, and now there are important people in Europe who would be glad to see him go. He must reverse this tide rapidly, or he may be replaced.
Putin is far from finished. But he has governed for 14 years counting the time Dmitri Medvedev was officially in charge, and that is a long time. He may well regain his footing, but as things stand at the moment, I would expect quiet thoughts to be stirring in his colleagues’ minds. Putin himself must be re-examining his options daily. Retreating in the face of the West and accepting the status quo in Ukraine would be difficult, given that the Kosovo issue that helped propel him to power and given what he has said about Ukraine over the years. But the current situation cannot sustain itself. The wild card in this situation is that if Putin finds himself in serious political trouble, he might become more rather than less aggressive. Whether Putin is in real trouble is not something I can be certain of, but too many things have gone wrong for him lately for me not to consider the possibility. And as in any political crisis, more and more extreme options are contemplated if the situation deteriorates.
Those who think that Putin is both the most repressive and aggressive Russian leader imaginable should bear in mind that this is far from the case. Lenin, for example, was fearsome. But Stalin was much worse. There may similarly come a time when the world looks at the Putin era as a time of liberality. For if the struggle by Putin to survive, and by his challengers to displace him, becomes more intense, the willingness of all to become more brutal might well increase.

Stratfor provides global awareness and guidance to individuals, governments and businesses around the world. We use a unique, intel-based approach to analyze world affairs.
Copyright © 2014 Stratfor, All rights reserved. Call: +1 512-744-4300
Email: feedback@stratfor.com
Website: stratfor.com
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July 23, 2014 11:52am
stephieboy

Ugly Truth ,nice try re your Zero Hedge link. its exactly the same one posted on Lew Rockwell .com yesterday mostly all copy and pasted from RT and other official Russian media sources.

But one is quite wrong with the claim about Ukraine Su 25s allegedly intercepting M17. The sub sonic ground support attack fighter /bomber has a maximum ceiling of 22,000 ft ( 7,000 m).

Maybe they meant a SU 17 or Mig 29 which both have thae capability to reach 33,000 ft . You might like to advise them of their mistake for so they can get their censorship and spin deptt to change it. .( if not they’ve dome that already )
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July 23, 2014 11:53am
safesally

Mr Dime – very naughty comment, even for you.

Working girls are not what you think in my vast experience. Certainly not dead inside.
Most working girls run their own business with themselves being their best asset; just like staff in any business. There is good and bad in every industry and these days there are many more smart and healthy prostitutes than not.
Why don’t you try one if you haven’t already. You might be surprised. 🙂
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July 23, 2014 11:55am
kowtow

Where ever the Muslim is ascendant and has an opportunity to oppress he takes it.

There used to be a huge Jewish community in Iraq up to the establishment of the state of Israel,second class citizens but tolerated. Come 1948 they had to clear out.

Now it’s the turn of another ancient religious community to be expelled.Once tolerated as second class citizens ,now there’s no room for them.

Asia Minor ,now called Turkey was once Greek and Christian, now?

As flipper says ,where is the MSM white hot hatred as is saved for the Israelis concerning this genocide.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/last-remaining-christians-flee-iraq-mosul-201472118235739663.html
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July 23, 2014 12:09pm
flipper

Fletch….

Thanks for that, excellent contribution.

But it will, of course, be portrayed as lies by the dickheads of the world, and this thread.
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July 23, 2014 12:10pm
ShawnLH

“No, what I’m saying is that if the Zionists murdered the teenagers then they would be true to their historical form, eg the Lavon Affair, the attack of the USS Liberty, the Sabra and Shatilla massacres, and their involvement in 9/11.”

The Israelis had no involvement in 911, that was planned, funded and carried out by Muslims, not Jews.

The rest is a rather dubious litany of Ugly’s reality and fact free conspiracy theories.

As usual with Ugly, it’s blame the Jews and excuse the Muslims. And when caught out tell lies about “Palestinians” being Jews.

Nothing to see here folks. Just a filthy, lying, Jew-hating apologist for Arab/Islamic terrorism.
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July 23, 2014 12:38pm
stephieboy

flipper (3,530 comments) says:
July 23rd, 2014 at 11:52 am

Stevie, Ugly et al….

What males you think I might be pro Putin.?

Re my post at 10.58 am

Shawn L H , with U T we’re dealing with someone who has delusional and paranoia issues regarding Israel and Jews . M17 as well it seems too.
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July 23, 2014 12:50pm
UglyTruth

One of the things I noticed is that Israel has made repeated attempts at offering the Arabs their own state and they are ALWAYS rejected.

As it should be. It is the secular state which is central to the problem, attacking both Palestinian Muslims and Jews who are not part of the state.
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July 23, 2014 1:10pm
UglyTruth

The Israelis had no involvement in 911,

Israeli espionage around 9/11

Shortly before 9/11, over 140 Israelis had been arrested for suspected espionage. Some of them were posing as Art students. These suspects targeted or penetrated Military bases, DEA, FBI, Secret Service, ATF, U.S. Customs, IRS, INS, EPA, Interior Dept., U.S. Marshal’s Service, various US Attorneys Offices, Secret government offices Unlisted private homes of law enforcement/intelligence officers. Most of the suspects served in military intelligence, electronic surveillance intercept and or explosive ordinance units.

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9/11:Israel_did_it#Israeli_espionage_around_9.2F11
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July 23, 2014 1:12pm
UglyTruth

Nothing to see here folks. Just a filthy, lying, Jew-hating apologist for Arab/Islamic terrorism.

Quote something that I posted that was a lie or STFU, Shawn Lee Herles, you lying sack of religious shit.
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July 23, 2014 1:15pm
dime

“Mr Dime – very naughty comment, even for you.

Working girls are not what you think in my vast experience. Certainly not dead inside.”

It was pretty funny though 😀 it fired up the sap from dunedin too 🙂

my best friend runs a high end escort agency in aussie.. $1000 an hour girls etc. she used to run one of the biggest/best brothels there. Dime knows tons of working girls outside of my transactions!
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July 23, 2014 1:33pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, I suppose you also you also believe the crap about 4,000 jews not turning up to the WTC on 9/11?.

The links from your wiki spooks actually don’t take you very far in terms of evidential facts but instead full of conformation bias typical of (/11 Twoofers and Conspiracy Theorists like you .!

Actual source for the 140 Israelis allegedly spying just prior to 9/11 would help as well.?
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July 23, 2014 1:38pm
Longknives

I’m still waiting for the storm of outrage from Logie, Billingsley and all the other angry Lesbians for Kim Dotcom’s ‘Killing Hookers’ joke….
Considering they want John Key’s head on a platter for ‘seeming bored’ with their little games..
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July 23, 2014 1:43pm
Yvette

From Tania Billingsley’s “essay” –

… our society normalises, trivialises and in both obvious and subtle
ways condones rape. This is called rape culture.

We have seen this rape culture reflected in our own government’s response to my
assault. It only became a matter of importance that was properly addressed when
it started to inconvenience those in power …

Rape culture is in the reaction and words of our Prime Minister. John Key recently
questioned David Cunliffe’s sincerity over his comments that preceded a speech
in support of Women’s Refuge. It genuinely makes me wonder if he has watched
any of his responses to what happened to me. I think if he had, he wouldn’t be so
quick to question the sincerity of others – not only this, but his reaction to Mr
Cunliffe’s speech, the ever-present, knee-jerk reaction “not all men”.

I am disappointed that Ms Billingsley does not have a Facebook page or similar to give an update on her view of matters, considering David Cunliffe has several times apologised now for the manner of his presentation to the Women’s Refuge.

Media don’t appear to have mentioned Ms Billingsley’s occupation, so there is no indication she is better qualified than anyone else to read the Prime Minister’s supposed body language or attitude in mentioning her situation, or accompanying international diplomacy issue, which may also determine his disposition. But to better assess Tania’s interpretation of her so-called rape culture amongst Parliamentarians, it would be interesting to know her opinion now of Cunliffe’s latest efforts, including last Thursday’s Queenstown lunch date.
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July 23, 2014 1:53pm
Manolo

The Messiah’s legacy: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2014/voters_see_a_more_divided_nation_gopers_more_enthusiastic_to_vote
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July 23, 2014 1:57pm
Manolo

Is Tania Billingsley Peter George’s nome de plume?
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July 23, 2014 1:59pm
Manolo

The resident jidahist and follower of the paedophile prophet Muhammad is losing his temper. Just quiet down and have a good bacon sandwich.

Allahu akbar!
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July 23, 2014 2:01pm
UglyTruth

Ah, Manolo, you claim to be a Christian like ShawnLH, don’t you?

Let’s talk about your adventures with calumny.
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July 23, 2014 2:06pm
Paulus

I hope that Ms Billingsley get her trial soon as there are many questions regarding the so called attempted rape to answer to a NZ Court.
I look forward to her answering a QC for the Accused.
Let us hear what actually happened, not Green/Labour/IMP innuendo and propaganda as they are obviously trying to really avoid a trial, to get maximum publicity for the left wing parties.
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July 23, 2014 2:12pm
Manolo

You’re wrong, follower of the paedophile Muhammad. I’m an atheist.
Your vile faith has contributed bugger all to the modern world, but given us killers and assassins.
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July 23, 2014 2:12pm
Pete George

Perhaps Manolo is Christine Rankin. Unlikely, but she can’t be a Christian, not a proper one anyway, they’re supposed to love their neighbours – or at least not hate and lie so much.

An atheist, that’s funny.
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July 23, 2014 2:15pm
stephieboy

The 140 Art students as cover for espionage activities and evidence for a foreknowledge of 9/11 is analyzed and discussed below in some depth.
Apart from the lack of actual factual evidence for the allegation the author asks ,like the alleged 5 dancing Israelis, why would Israeli intelligence expose themselves by having this kind of operation.?
Pretty dumb for the Mossad to use 120 / 140 scammers to conduct sensitive and delicate espionage activities that could so easily be blown.
But I can understand its appeal to especially the paranoid like those at Prison Planet , Infowars and Neo Nazi web sites and blogs.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Israeli_Art_Students

The original source of the allegation was apparently at Salon.com in 2002.

http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/
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July 23, 2014 2:19pm
UglyTruth

You’re wrong, follower of the paedophile Muhammad. I’m an atheist.

It might interest you to know that the Hadith which says that Muhammed had sex with a nine year old girl is contradicted by historical scholarship.

Your vile faith has contributed bugger all to the modern world, but given us killers and assassins.

Tell me more about my faith. What is it exactly that I believe that is so vile?
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July 23, 2014 2:22pm
UglyTruth

Apart from the lack of actual factual evidence for the allegation

“Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.”
US official quoted in Carl Cameron’s Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring.
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July 23, 2014 2:25pm
stephieboy

Ugly Truth, source please for that quote from the alleged US official.?

I believe 9/11 myths have gone to great lengths and actually have analyzed and evaluated theirs .

Fox News can surely do the same. ?
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July 23, 2014 2:33pm
Longknives

C’mon UglyTruth- Even you must admit that Islam needs to work on it’s ‘PR’..
Maybe if they stopped blowing shit up for a starter??
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July 23, 2014 2:34pm
ShawnLH

“Quote something that I posted that was a lie or STFU, Shawn Lee Herles, you lying sack of religious shit.

Your claim that Israel was behind 911. Thats just for starters. Your claim that Arabs and Arab “Palestinians” are Jews, and Zionists are not. Hell I could fill several posts with your dishonest crap about Zionists and Jews, false flag operations, and all the lying vile filth you use to to promote your hatred for Jews, Israel and America
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July 23, 2014 2:42pm
stephieboy

And the myth and lies advanced by Alex Jones that the israeli company Odigo had advanced warning of the 9/11 attacks through its instant messaging services .

Note how Alex Jones craftily and slyly remakes and readjusts the facts to suit his story,,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Odigo
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July 23, 2014 2:42pm
Manolo

UT is a proud believer in a faith that will send us back to the Dark Ages: Stone Age Sharia law, women as chattels of the husbands and second class citizens, total submission to a text written by a paedophile and embraced by barbaric imams, and so on, ad infinitum.
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July 23, 2014 2:42pm
ShawnLH

“Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It’s classified information.”

Which proves nothing at all, as the information, which could be just about anything, is classified, and there is nothing at all to indicate that it actually implicates Israel in the first place.

In short, Ugly still has no evidence for his claim.
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July 23, 2014 2:47pm
Lucia Maria

For Ugly. This should suit his conspiracy theory nature.

From Disinformation: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism

By 1972, Andropov’s disinformation machinery was working around the clock to persuade the Islamic world that Israel and the United States intended to transform the rest of the world into a Zionist fiefdom. According to Andropov, the Islamic world was a petri dish in which the KGB community could nurture a virulent strain of America-hatred, grown from the bacterium of Marxist-Leninist thought. Islamic anti-Semitism ran deep. The message was simple: The Muslims had a taste for nationalism, jingoism, and victimology. Andropov pontificated that “we” should make them feel sick to their stomachs just thinking about that “Council of the Elders of Zion” (meaning the US Congress), the aim of which was to have the Jews take over the world. We should whip up their illiterate, oppressed mobs to a fever pitch. Terrorism and violence against Israel and America would flow naturally from the Muslims’ anti-Semitic fervor, Andropov explained. The Kremlin has always been a strong advocate of divide et impera. The split between the Judeo and the Christian worlds generated by the framing of Pius XII proved that this archaic strategy of divide and conquer worked in modern times as well. In 1972, Andropov launched Operation “SIG” (Sionistskiye Gosudarstva, Zionist Governments). This was the code name for a “socialist division of labor” aimed at turning the Islamic world into an “explosive” enemy of the United States. The Romanian DIE’s [Romanian intelligence agency] sphere of influence for the operation embraced Libya, Iran, Lebanon, and Syria, where Romania was involved in building hospitals, schools, and roads and maintained large colonies of builders, doctors, and teachers. The DIE’s task was to scour Romania for trusted Communist Party activists belonging to Islamic ethnic groups, train them in dezinformatsiya and terrorist operations , and infiltrate them into its target countries. They would be charged with the task of implanting a rabid , demented hatred for American Zionism by manipulating the ancestral abhorrence for Jews felt by many people in that part of the world. Before I left Romania for good, in 1978, the DIE had sent about five hundred undercover agents to its Islamic target countries— and, as I later learned, it continued to send such agents until the Soviet bloc collapsed, in 1989. Most of them were engineers, medical doctors, teachers, and art instructors. According to a rough estimate received from Moscow, by 1978 the Soviet bloc intelligence community had sent some four thousand such agents of influence into the Islamic world. The assumption was that about 70– 75 percent of those assets would end up being really useful. In 1972 , the DIE received from the KGB an Arabic translation of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion along with “documentary” material, also in Arabic, “proving” that the United States was a Zionist country whose aim was to transform the Islamic world into a Jewish fiefdom. The DIE was ordered to “discreetly” disseminate both “documents” within its targeted Islamic countries. During my later years in Romania, every month the DIE disseminated thousands of copies throughout its Islamic sphere of influence. In the meetings I had with my counterparts in the Hungarian and Bulgarian services, with whom I enjoyed particularly close relations at that time, I learned that they were also sending such influence agents into their own Islamic spheres of influence. (Kindle pp 256-257)
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July 23, 2014 2:49pm
ShawnLH

Debunking the usual 911 conspiracy theories, including the “Israel’ did it” nonsense.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11_conspiracy_theories

More 9/11 conspiracy theories debunked.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/sep/05/9-11-conspiracy-theories-debunked

10 years on, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about 9/11 persist.

“Ten years later, the physical legacies of 9/11 attacks are fading into history. Yet the conspiracy theories about who “really” was behind the attacks seem to be growing.

Like a drug-resistant virus, these fantasies have persisted despite efforts to combat them by mutating over time, taking new forms and finding new modes of transmission. Jews and Israel often are their targets, and they evoke centuries-old myths about Jewish power, allegiances and manipulation of social institutions.

The conspiracy theories began almost as soon as the towers fell. Four days after the attack, the Syrian newspaper Al-Thawra reported that 4,000 Jews failed to show up for work at the World Trade Center on 9/11 after being warned by Israeli intelligence, according to a 2007 U.S. State Department document debunking the myth. Another held that five Israeli students were secret Mossad agents who knew about the attacks and allowed them to happen. That myth eventually morphed into the conspiracy theory that the Israelis remotely directed the attacks.

Experts say 9/11 myths that blame the Jews are spreading freely from neo-Nazis and other white supremacists into new areas whose acolytes are not necessarily anti-Semitic but are unknowingly adopting the tropes of classical anti-Semitic conspiracy theories: anti-government radicals, young anti-war activists, New Age ideologues, and propagandists and journalists in the Arab and Muslim worlds.”

http://www.jta.org/2011/09/05/news-opinion/united-states/10-years-on-anti-semitic-conspiracy-theories-about-911-persist
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July 23, 2014 3:02pm
Yoza

Is this the US and the EU sending a message to Israel?

US and EU suspend flights to Tel Aviv
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July 23, 2014 3:11pm
Manolo

Lovely Muslims across the ditch: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/man-marries-off-daughter-12-in-islamic-ceremony-bride-believed-sharia-law-override/story-fni0cx12-1226996078122?nk=de9b5c436d43b4d42477bccb6e60897b
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July 23, 2014 3:15pm
UglyTruth

“Quote something that I posted that was a lie or STFU, Shawn Lee Herles, you lying sack of religious shit.

Your claim that Israel was behind 911.

That isn’t a quote, fool. You are a are seriously pathetic little fuck, Shawn. Do you lie to your family as well?
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July 23, 2014 3:19pm

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