General Debate 7 March 2013

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graham

thedavincimode:

On his blog, Pete George writes that someone stated “back of the envelope calculations show me the 99.9914% of the NZ male population are not rapists”, and he disputes that, stating he would be very surprised if the minority is that small (IE 0.0086%).

I suspect “back of the envelope calculations” aren’t intended to be totally accurate 🙂 but let’s work through it. NZ population is around 4,450,000. Stats NZ shows we’re roughly 97 males to 100 females, which comes out to around 2,200,000 males. In 2011 police recorded 3466 rapes and related offences which, when you work it through, assuming one offence per male, works out to around 0.0016% – or 99.99842% of the male population are not rapists.

Very very rough, I know. But there you go – turns out the minority is even smaller than the “back of the envelope calculations”. Unless someone has better stats than me (always possible).
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March 7, 2013 6:51pm
Northland Wahine

Damn edit…

Was adding…

Women need to respect themselves more and just maybe, our men folk will follow suit. This is not laying the blame on the woman, it’s the unfortunate reality.

Food for thought though… How often is a gay man accused of raping a straight male? My guess would be, very rarely. Sober, or drunk…
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March 7, 2013 6:53pm
Kea

Check this out from Pete George’s site.

UPDATE: For an example of proof of the culture follow this thread on Kiwiblog

This is the same Pete George who moans about being abused. You guys are “proof” of the rape culture.

Fuck you PG. Your a low life.
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March 7, 2013 6:56pm
Kea

NZ population is around 4,450,000. Stats NZ shows we’re roughly 97 males to 100 females, which comes out to around 2,200,000 males. In 2011 police recorded 3466 rapes and related offences which, when you work it through, assuming one offence per male, works out to around 0.0016% – or 99.99842% of the male population are not rapists.

(even less actually, due to multiple rapes by one person)

Well not according to Pete George. And whats more, by questioning him, you are part of the “rape culture” eg: a rapist.

Go check out his site and see for yourself.

Hay PG, tell us what cultures are NOT rape cultures ?
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March 7, 2013 7:00pm
Kea

How often is a gay man accused of raping a straight male?

Wrong question.

How many men report they have been raped ?

There, fixed it.
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March 7, 2013 7:04pm
Pete George

Yes graham, very rough, because it’s well known that many rapes aren’t reported, probably far more than are reported.

And as I’ve said elsewhere, quibbling over numbers is beside the point.

Even taking 3466 reported rapes in a year that’s a lot of lives that have potentially been severely affected, my guess is that most victims that put themselves through the trauma of a trial have been significantly affected by what has happened.
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March 7, 2013 7:04pm
Northland Wahine

No… Kea, I asked the question I wanted to…
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March 7, 2013 7:06pm
Pete George

Hey Kea, most people reading Kiwiblog are not as dismissive of and full of excuses for rape as you are. But you are a part of a problem. And you are responsible for what you say online, don’t try and blame me for pointing it out.
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March 7, 2013 7:06pm
cha

How often is a gay man accused of raping a straight male

Often enough.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/4302858/Attack-totally-random

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/4328327/Man-sex-cases-arrest-made

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/2989191/Music-identity-jailed-for-sexual-assault-named
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March 7, 2013 7:10pm
Pete George

And Graham, here is the original statement as quoted on my blog:

That said…back of the envelope calculations show me the 99.9914% of the NZ male population are not rapists and have, most likely, never ever entertained the thought of raping someone.

That’s not on a per annum basis as you have used.
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March 7, 2013 7:14pm
Kea

I stand 100% behind what I have said and will add to it.

1. When you accuse Kiwi men of having a “rape culture” what are you comparing Kiwi men to ?

On your site you quote this: “The first step in fighting rape culture is acknowledging it exists. The second is pointing it out so others are forced to see it. The third … I’ll figure out once we get people even to step one.”

2. How do you propose to “force” people to admit they are part of a “rape culture”

Your site suggests having sex with drunk girls is RAPE.

3. Do you consider girls having sex with drunk boys rape ?

4. Why does your site only mention this form of rape in relation to women ?

5. Where did I make “excuses for rape” ?
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March 7, 2013 7:15pm
Northland Wahine

Cha… The first two links appear to be a serial rapist, although it seems unclear if the rapist was gay. ( and no I’m not saying he wasn’t). The 3rd link was more clear…

Given the rape numbers, I’d still say very rare. That doesn’t make it less traumatic for the victim…
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March 7, 2013 7:17pm
Pete George

Kea:

And whats more, by questioning him, you are part of the “rape culture” eg: a rapist.

That’s another absurd accusation.

If we have a rape culture we are all part of it, but most of us are not rapists. Some contribute much more than others to the culture, many contribute little if anything (apart from silence allowing it to continue).
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March 7, 2013 7:18pm
Kea

,,,that’s a lot of lives that have potentially been severely affected, my guess is that most victims that put themselves through the trauma of a trial have been significantly affected by what has happened.

I assume you are talking about those men wrongly accused of rape ? Do you have the figures of the number of false rape complaints and sexual assaults made?

….of course not, there is no way the cops would release those figures. It is way more than people think. We are misled and figures are distorted in order to promote more anti male legislation.
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March 7, 2013 7:21pm
David Garrett

Pete, why do you post here so much, with links to your own blog? If your words of wisdom are so profound, and you have something interesting and relevant to say, would people not go to your own place of their own accord? Do you really want to be seen as a somewhat more literate version of Phil the druggie bludger?
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March 7, 2013 7:23pm
Kea

“Pete George (16,550) Says:
March 7th, 2013 at 7:18 pm
Kea:

And whats more, by questioning him, you are part of the “rape culture” eg: a rapist.

That’s another absurd accusation.”

Errrrrrr it may pay to check what you have said above and also on your little anti male hate piece on your own site.
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March 7, 2013 7:23pm
krazykiwi

So, the 2013 Census. No forms delivered to our home. Our son was a census worker in another city, and advised we call the census hotline on Saturday. They expressed dismay and promised to post form to us. As of today, nothing. Nada, Zilch.
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March 7, 2013 7:24pm
graham

Pete George at 7:04 pm:

And as I’ve said elsewhere, quibbling over numbers is beside the point.

True. But you started it when you disputed the comments made by ‘La Grand Fomage’. Your exact words were “I challenge you on 99.9914%. I think rapists are a small minority of males (and it should be said a very small minority of females), but I’d be very surprised if the minority is that small.”

I just thought it would be interesting to get a rough idea. If you’ve got better data – and as you challenged the 99.9914% figure, presumably you have – then let’s see it. I’m all eyes.
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March 7, 2013 7:30pm
Kea

Pete George………. maybe your right. Maybe we are all part of a rape culture.

Please tell us lowly “rapists” which culture is not a rape culture, so we can learn from them ?

(we will ignore that over half the population of this culture is female and they raise the kids and are the first to instill values and morals in the child)
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March 7, 2013 7:31pm
Pete George

Kea at 7.15

1. When you accuse Kiwi men of having a “rape culture” what are you comparing Kiwi men to ?

I’m not comparing them to anything or anyone, that’s irrelevant.

On your site you quote this: “The first step in fighting rape culture is acknowledging it exists. The second is pointing it out so others are forced to see it. The third … I’ll figure out once we get people even to step one.”

2. How do you propose to “force” people to admit they are part of a “rape culture”

They’re not my words, I wouldn’t say it like that. You can’t force people to admit anything. By raising the issue and putting it out there for discussion you give people a chance to see it for themselves.

Your site suggests having sex with drunk girls is RAPE.

3. Do you consider girls having sex with drunk boys rape ?

Not necessarily, obviously it depends on the circumstances, particularly whether it was consented to.

4. Why does your site only mention this form of rape in relation to women ?

I was quoting part of one person’s post (and linked to the full post). Obvously most forms of rape can apply to either sex, but most often females are the victims so that’s what is most oftentalked about.

5. Where did I make “excuses for rape” ?

You diverted to false accusations, you diverted to abusing groups of females, you diverted to abusing me, you made things up about me. But perhaps I got it wrong. Do you think we have a significant problem with rape in New Zealand?
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March 7, 2013 7:33pm
Andrei

Pete George you exceptionally silly little man I AM NOT PART OF A “RAPE CULTURE”.

I bought my boy up to respect women and my girls to be women worthy of respect.

We live in a degraded overly sexualized society and this “rape culture” crap is just another confusion in a society that has turned a large number of its women into slags unfit to be brides and mothers – who in fact will murder infants they conceive rather than take responsibility for them.
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March 7, 2013 7:36pm
Pete George

DG: “Pete, why do you post here so much, with links to your own blog? ”

Because I can. Why do you comment here?

I see social media as many interlinked parts. I happen to be active across a number of those parts (much more than just here and YourNZ) and use it all as a whole rather than as isolated forums. Most bloggers work across a variety of sources and destinations, I probably do it more than most.

I use my own blog for a number of purposes. One is to use it for more detail and a library of information, and to avoid clogging up other people’s blogs I post summaries and link. That’s a very common blogging practice.
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March 7, 2013 7:38pm
Kea

“1. When you accuse Kiwi men of having a “rape culture” what are you comparing Kiwi men to ?

I’m not comparing them to anything or anyone, that’s irrelevant.”

A total cop out. If this is bad, where is it good ? You have the entire world to choose from and not one example given.

“3. Do you consider girls having sex with drunk boys rape ?

Not necessarily, obviously it depends on the circumstances, particularly whether it was consented to”

Consent you say… how can a drunk person give “consent” ? Why was “consent” not raised when talking about sex with drunk girls ? (thats just rape?)

With all the rest of the questions you simply tried to distance yourself from the views expressed on your website, though it is clear you support them.

Remember this ? “Pete George (16,551) Says:
March 7th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
And you are responsible for what you say online, don’t try and blame me for pointing it out.”
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March 7, 2013 7:42pm
Pete George

Andrei, you’re not a great representative of Christianess.

graham – I’ve already addressed that (it was not perannum as you based your figures on) and it’s been well discussed by others, if you’re interested see the thread at The Daily Blog.

I don’t care if you want to take 99.9914% as accurate, I don’t think that’s a significant point, especially as rape statistics are notoriously difficult to get accurately. And 3000 reported rapes per year still sounds awful to me.
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March 7, 2013 7:44pm
Pete George

Kea at 7.42 – compared to what I think we should aim for here I think it’s bad. No where else matters as a comparison.

Are you suggesting that the levels of rape in New Zealand are acceptable as they are?
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March 7, 2013 7:47pm
Kea

Andrei (1,917) Says:
March 7th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
Pete George you exceptionally silly little man I AM NOT PART OF A “RAPE CULTURE”.

I bought my boy up to respect women and my girls to be women worthy of respect.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes you are Andrei. By not acknowledging it you are part of it. That is crystal clear on PG’s site and in his comments. Are you thick or something, you rapist you ?
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March 7, 2013 7:48pm
nasska

Bad news krazykiwi…..it seems that to the Dept of Statistics you are but a squashed road louse on the highway of life. 🙂

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/psq0uatm1xs2kzq/Road%20Kill.jpg
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March 7, 2013 7:48pm
Kea

Pete George (16,554) Says:
March 7th, 2013 at 7:47 pm
Kea at 7.42 – compared to what I think we should aim for here I think it’s bad. No where else matters as a comparison.

Are you suggesting that the levels of rape in New Zealand are acceptable as they are?

What an odd question.

I gather from your reply this is just a confusion over the terms used. You should have just said we have a NORMAL culture, not we have a RAPE culture. Glad we cleared that up.
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March 7, 2013 7:54pm
Kea

nasska (5,811) Says:
March 7th, 2013 at 7:48 pm
Bad news krazykiwi…..it seems that to the Dept of Statistics you are but a squashed road louse on the highway of life.

The road lice score looks very low to me. I suspect Americans have less of these infestations on their roads. We could learn from them.
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March 7, 2013 7:56pm
graham

You haven’t addressed it, Pete. You stated in black and white that you considered the figure of 99.9914% to be wrong, but you haven’t provided any data to back it up. Whereas I have at least tried to work out whether that figure is anywhere near correct or not.

It looks like you just decided to use that quote as a convenient segue into some point you wanted to make. If you want to write a post on rape go ahead, but I don’t quite see why you needed to follow in some other blog’s footsteps, then hijack a comment and twist it to make some supposed point that men are guilty of ignoring this so-called “rape culture”.
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March 7, 2013 8:00pm
nasska

A 54 year old woman had a heart attack and was taken to the hospital.
While on the operating table she had a near death experience. Seeing God she asked “Is my time up?”
God said, “No, you have another 43 years, 2 months and 8 days to live.”
Upon recovery, the woman decided to stay in the hospital and have a face-lift, liposuction, breast implants and a tummy tuck. She even had someone come in and change her hair colour and brighten her teeth!
Since she had so much more time to live, she figured she might as well make the most of it.
After her last operation, she was released from the hospital. While crossing the street on her way home, she was killed by an ambulance.
Arriving in front of God, she demanded, “I I thought you said I had another 43 years?
Why didn’t you pull me from out of the path of the
ambulance?”

God replied: “I didn’t bloody recognize you.”
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March 7, 2013 8:00pm
nasska

…”The road lice score looks very low to me”….

I’m working on it Kea…I’m working on it! 🙂
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March 7, 2013 8:01pm
Kea

“Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where results could be obtained, the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. Specifically, FBI officials report that out of roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases since 1989, about 2,000 tests have been inconclusive, about 2,000 tests have excluded the primary suspect,

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194032,00.html#ixzz2MppaZ7EM
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March 7, 2013 8:03pm
Steve (North Shore)

Pete George,

Your posts were once interesting, your comments were as well. Now lately when ever you post here it includes a link back to your blog to get to the source.
You are just like the magpie – a compulsive linkwhore. Do something about it Pete – you are losing fans
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March 7, 2013 8:13pm
Pete George

graham, if you are actually interested in the statistics I suggest you see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

That quotes a number of stattistics, reports and estimates, including:

It has been estimated that one in six American women has been or will be sexually assaulted during her life. Largely because of child and prison rape, approximately ten percent of reported rape victims are male.

Here’s an indicator for New Zealand:

For example, 8% of Māori women experienced sexual victimisation – twice as high as the national rate for women (4%).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_Zealand

See also:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/05/sexual_violence_statistics.html
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/10/sexual_assaults.html
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March 7, 2013 8:19pm
Fletch

Wow, Paul Rand has just finished fillibustering for 13 hours straight, largely about the Brennen CIA appointment and drones. Reminds me of Mr Smith Goes To Washington.

He started around about 12pm and went until 1am…

WASHINGTON — After nearly 13 hours on the Senate floor, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., ended his filibuster blocking Senate confirmation of John Brennan, President Obama’s pick for director of the CIA.

“I’m going to speak as long as I can to draw attention to something I find very disturbing,” Paul said when he started speaking around 11:45 a.m. Wednesday morning. He finally ceded the floor at about 12:40 a.m. local time on Thursday.

But Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, also a Kentucky Republican, said he would continue to oppose Brennan’s confirmation and ending debate on it.

What started in the morning as a solo effort turned into a multi-senator debate that included one Democrat, Ron Wyden of Oregon, and at least seven Republicans questioning the constitutionality of drone strikes on U.S. citizens at home and abroad.

“No American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found guilty of a crime by a court,” Paul said. “How can you kill someone without going to a judge, or a jury?”

Paul, a critic of Obama’s unmanned drone policy, started his self-described filibuster by demanding the president or Attorney General Eric Holder issue a statement assuring that unmanned aircraft would not be used in the United States to kill terrorism suspects who are U.S. citizens.

Paul said that his opposition was not about Brennan himself, but the constitutional issues involved. “We really just want [Obama] to say he won’t” attack noncombatants on U.S. soil.

MORE – http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/03/07/rand-paul-brennan-filibuster/1969869/
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March 7, 2013 8:24pm
Fletch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8aFpnWxPA
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March 7, 2013 8:31pm
bhudson

There is a certain irony that a lawyer slanders so many with so few supporting facts.

@Pete George (9:46am),

What is far more ironic is that Mickey’s party (including his dear beloved David Cunliffe) would have their ‘hands on’ govt working to lower the exchange rate that would line the pockets of those farmers at the expense of a higher cost of living to all workers – higher cost of petrol, higher cost of food, higher cost of clothing, higher cost of mortgage finance.

Labour are so deeply confused and conflicted that they don’t even know who are their fundamental constituents any longer.
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March 7, 2013 8:44pm
graham

I’ve seen the Wikipedia site, Pete, where it quotes the figure of 1129 police-recorded offences in 2010. This story (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10796331) reports 3016 offences in 2010, and 3466 in 2011.

I’m interested in getting the facts right, Pete. Making a vague claim that we live in a “rape culture” and that somehow we’re so blind we don’t even realise it might slave your conscience in some way or make you feel that “by talking about it” you’re somehow “helping the victims”, but you’re attributing blame where it is undeserved. Stating that the majority of men “aid rape” is quite simply unfair to the majority of men.

You imply that I aid rape, simply because I am a man and therefore by definition in the majority. Well, look in the mirror, Pete. Maybe you aid rape, but I don’t.
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March 7, 2013 8:44pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Don’t mention the cricket.
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March 7, 2013 8:45pm
joana

Twelve muslim leaders met with Richard Prosser. Why do Canterbury’s muslims need twelve leaders? How many of these leaders are gainfully employed?
In the UK , 60 per cent of muslim men are on welfare.
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March 7, 2013 8:55pm
Rodders

Based on achievement, how many NZ First MP’s can be regarded as gainfully employed?
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March 7, 2013 9:22pm
nasska

I don’t think that achievement is a quality Winston actively seeks in his tame & cowered caucus Rodders. 🙂
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March 7, 2013 9:29pm
graham

Ooh, joana! Heresy!

You can’t say things like that. 🙂
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March 7, 2013 9:34pm
Rodders

nasska – Winston is so vain, he doesn’t care who he is surrounded with as long as they are not taller than him 🙂
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March 7, 2013 9:34pm
nasska

graham

To be fair to the local branches of the Godbotherers’ Societies there is definitely a considerable divide between what many people tolerate as acceptable behaviour between Christianity & Islam.*

Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4fgpm646j1yea3/Islam%20so%20it%20must%20be%20OK.jpg

* It is this commenter’s opinion that all religion is a load of bollocks but it offends my sense of fair play. 🙂
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March 7, 2013 9:48pm
Left Right and Centre

Bulimia nervosa attempt:

I had my ice cream splurge but this time I wanted to try bringing it back up. About 1.7 litres plus jam and sherbert. I don’t want the day’s worth of kilojoules from it.

So I had a go at seeing what would happen if I tried to bring it back up. Um… interesting. Not a total failure I have to say. I did get some quantity of pink chyme goo… my gut instinct (the irony) was that most of it had in fact digested even in the short space of time from start to ‘time to chyme’. So I don’t how much came back up. 20%? 10%? 30%? Honestly no idea.

From my new experience…. it’s really not quite as easy as sticking fingers down your throat and it all neatly comes back out. It’s bloody damn near impossible to get it out!! Once your stomach gets it’s mitts on grub it has no problem with… it really doesn’t want to let it go without a fight. Trust me I got the 100% full-on vomit process working… that food was staying there… amazing eh? hahahaha

If you’ve ever spent extra hours exercising because you ate too much crap… you might be tempted to try something that takes two minutes not two hours of hard effort.
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March 7, 2013 10:30pm
cha

Convert or die.

http://youtu.be/YESTq5gqUE4
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March 7, 2013 10:35pm
Kea

Left Right and Centre, cut that out !

Keep up the exercise brother 🙂
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March 7, 2013 10:39pm
graham

Sigh.

No, Pete, this thread is not “an example of proof of the culture” as you rather bizarrely claim on your blog. It is an example of ordinary law-abiding people who are fed up with being labelled and accused, without basis or justification,yet again.
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March 7, 2013 11:34pm
SPC

The inter-action between Pete George and others on this blog has a similarity to the way that a group of Moslem men treat a Scandinavian blonde – she’s asking for it by being alone in their presence. Rape is an act of violent abuse. And the inference of people like Andrei, that if women behave like ladies they will not be raped is pretty damn offensive to rape victims.

This from someone who posts as a fan of the concept of romantic love and the sancity of marriage – that some women are not worthy of being brides …

Is this attitude to rape victims supposed to cower women from daring to come forward …

Yeah sure kea, all women fawn on the illiberal right wing male … maybe the mistake the monstrous arrogance with an expectation that you can back it up with something.
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March 8, 2013 12:18am
The Scorned

SPC….Get a context. Andrei is right in saying that if some Women didn’t loose all sense of personal respect and responsibility and didn’t take that out in public to places like bars and clubs where sexual behaviour is expected and encouraged, and drawing those who seek that, ( including those with the capacity to cross the line and rape) then incidents of rape in THAT context would be greatly reduced. A Woman getting in such a context getting voluntarialy trolleyd and then acting in a uninhibited,sexually loose and alluring manner towards the Men present greatly hightens her chances of recieving sexual attention and even more so of encountering and encouraging that rapist who will cross the line if he gets the chance.

Its not “victim blaming”…its called cause and effect and personal responsibility for ones actions and the consequences there of..
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March 8, 2013 12:51am
SPC

Oh bollocks – when men who look down on Moslems, who think western women are asking for it, then use the same apologetic for saying how rape incidence can be reduced, the word is hypocrisy. What next ban alcohol, women wear scarves, veils and chadors – so men can be spared from raping them?

In the age of internet porn/strippers we should have more restraint, be used to just looking unless given consent to go further. There is no excuse for rape. And those men who cannot restrain themselves from violence and or rape when drunk have a problem drinking.

PS The problem with shagging a drunk women who has passed out, is that she can not deny consent – she also cannot give consent. So exploiting a drunk female is fraught with risk.
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March 8, 2013 1:14am
The Scorned

None of my points answered….try again.
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March 8, 2013 1:21am
SPC

Blaming the raped woman, or any other victim of a crime, is never a valid point. And it is all you offered.
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March 8, 2013 3:43am
Kea

SPC, see you appear to have some issues. I would address those first, before you go attacking others for pointing out a few truths.
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March 8, 2013 5:54am
graham

An interesting comment from F E Smith last year on one of those links you provided, PG.

A rape accusation to cover consensual but later embarrassing (or otherwise regretted) sexual activity is still common and is almost never prosecuted when the truth comes out. It sometimes seems that we would prefer to have false accusations than risk ‘victims’ not coming forward. Having seen men remanded in custody for lengthy periods of time (and understand that the cops almost invariably oppose bail in rape cases) as a result of false accusations, I tend to be a bit more even handed.

And from ross69:

Jordan reports that the numbers for each group were 34 (21%), 62 (38%), 55 (33%), 13 (8%) respectively. In other words, only 21% of files that were examined by Jordan were determined by police to be genuine rape complaints, though there were possibly other genuine complaints which could not be substantiated. Even if all cases that were possibly genuine were accepted as genuine, it is apparent that 41% of complaints were considered to be false.

Nobody is denying the horrible nature of rape, Pete. But for you to accuse the majority of men of aiding and abetting rape, and implying that rape is normalised and condoned in our society, merely to gain some extra traffic for your blog, is unfair to the vast majority of men who find rape abhorrent. If you must have the discussion, at least frame it with some facts. On your blog you have presented zero facts with regard to this particular issue. You have presented no evidence to back up your statement that “And there are many more men, possible a majority, who aid rape by being an active participant in the rape culture / passively ignoring rape culture.”
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March 8, 2013 6:31am
Kea

“And there are many more men, possible a majority, who aid rape by being an active participant in the rape culture / passively ignoring rape culture.”

Pete George offers two choices. Either you admit to being part of “rape culture” or you support it by denying it.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet…?
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March 8, 2013 6:37am
Pete George

graham at 8.44 pm

You imply that I aid rape, simply because I am a man and therefore by definition in the majority. Well, look in the mirror, Pete. Maybe you aid rape, but I don’t.

graham has made five comments on this thread related to rape. They are all quibbling about statistics that are known to be very difficult to get accurately, and he is trying to discredit me repeatedly on one minor and largely irrelevant point.

And in none of those five comments has graham acknowledged the problem of rape, he has actively avoided that. Instead he used a typical diversion tactic, attacking the messenger.

I didn’t say graham aids rape becasue he is a man, that’s either a misunderstanding or a blatant misrepresentation of what I have said.

But graham does inadvertently make a case that he may be aiding rape by ignoring the problem and trying to divert attention to something trivial. That’s been pointed out as typical of a rape culture, denial and diversion.

On average nearly ten rapes a day are reported in New Zealand, and it’s known that many more are unreported due to shame, lack of evidence, not being able to identify the accused, or not wanting to suffer the added trauma of a trial with public exposure of what happened.

Maybe graham can address the actual issue that was raised, the problem of rape and how our culture often ignores it, trivialises it or blames the victims and attack those who rasie the issue.
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March 8, 2013 6:42am
Pete George

I wrote and posted my previous comment before I saw graham’s comment at 6.31 am where he indirectly acknowledges “nobody is denying the horrible nature of rape”.

I also note that graham remains critical of me, but he has not criticised Kea at all for his abusive comments that try to significantly diminish the problem of rape, and he has not criticised Andre who put virtually all the blame for rape on the behaviour of women.

graham, you have said what you think about me, a number of times. What do you think of Kea’s and Andre’s attitudes to women and attitudes to rape?
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March 8, 2013 6:52am
Kea

PG, do not try and distort my speaking out against injustice as diminishing the problem of rape. You are trying to frame the debate in your terms by shaming any dissenting view as supporting “rape culture”.

” That’s been pointed out as typical of a rape culture, denial and diversion.” Yes. By radical feminists with other agendas. It can be ignored.

People are not quibbling about statistics. They are quite rightly asking for some solid evidence to back up you accusing us all of being part of a “rape culture”. So far you have produced nothing to back that up and simply try and shame people into silence and submission to your twisted view of your fellow man.
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March 8, 2013 7:05am
Pete George

Kea, I suggest you read back through your comments to see attempts to shame and silence by using extreme abuse and false accusations. You did far more than “speak out against injustice”. In case you’ve forgotten here’s a few things you’ve said:

“We have a real problem in NZ with ugly bad mannered women, with personality defects, taking advantage of our young men after they have had a few drinks.”

“Pete George gets around this by implying that convicting some innocent men will “teach them a lesson” about our “rape culture”.”

“I note your concern for others only extends as far as that portion of the population you want to fuck, you greasy little prick.”

You have produced nothing to back that up and simply try and shame people into silence and submission to your twisted view of your fellow man.
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March 8, 2013 7:15am
Andrei

Pete George: Exhibit A

And this creature has two children FFS

Galloway, 36, was drinking at Hamilton’s Shenanigans Irish Pub about midnight on May 18 last year when a constable entered the bar to carry out a liquor licence check.

In what her lawyer termed “a grossly stupid act”, Galloway groped the officer’s groin as he made his way through the bar.

Galloway was ejected from the bar, prompting her to yell abuse and suggest the officer was enjoying the attention.

In explanation, Galloway later said she did not realise her victim was a police officer and she had “been doing this to men all night”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8397584/Mother-prosecuted-for-groping-officer
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March 8, 2013 7:27am
Pete George

Some statistics from links I provided:

The New Zealand Medical Journal in 2004 published research that found 14% of Auckland women and 20% of Waikato women had experienced at least one incident of physical and/or sexual violence perpetrated by an intimate partner, and 9% and 11% (respectively) had suffered a sexual assault by a non-partner.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/statistics.html#internatsurvey — The Australian component of the International Violence Against Women Study, money quotes:

* 12% of women reported experiencing sexual violence by an intimate partner (current or former) over their lifetimes
* 18% of women reported being sexually abused before the age of 16
* 27% of women reported sexual violence by non-intimates

http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Executive_Summary-a.pdf — the Center for Disease Control National Intimate Partner And Sexual Violence Survey, money quotes:
* Nearly 1 in 5 women (18.3%) and 1 in 71 men (1.4%) in the United States have been raped at some time in their lives
* 27.2% of women and 11.7% of men have experienced unwanted sexual contact
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March 8, 2013 7:32am
Griff

Dont bother with kea PG
he is a fuckwit does not debate just makes loud unsupported squawks.
Parrot chess: “debating kea is like playing chess with a parrot – it knocks over the pieces, defecates on the board, and then flies back to its flock to brag about how it won”

as for Andrei and by extension all conservative Christians

We live in a degraded overly sexualized society and this “rape culture” crap is just another confusion in a society that has turned a large number of its women into slags unfit to be brides and mothers

Is proof there is little difference between the Muslims treatment of woman and that of the conservative Christians.
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March 8, 2013 7:51am
Kea

You have produced nothing to back that up

You have done that for me. I was responding your accusation that we are all part of a rape culture. You should take a look at yourself before moaning about being “abused” and trying to claim the moral high ground.

Tell me what part of fair and equall treatment for all people, regardless of gender, do you actually object to ?
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March 8, 2013 7:59am
graham

Pete, sadly this will have to be my last post on the subject, for I have a hell of a lot of work to do.

I will simply point to your blog, and people can make up their own minds as to your propensity to make up issues where they may or may not exist, waffle on and on, but never actually produce any sodding evidence to support your claim. Other than pointing to this thread as “evidence of the rape culture”.

http://yournz.org/2013/03/07/rape-culture/

Firstly, to address your complaint that I’m quibbling over statistics. All I have done, Pete, is query the “challenge” that YOU bravely raised when YOU queried someone who said 99.9914% of the NZ male population are not rapists. From your blog:

‘La Grand Fomage’ comments:

Firstly, I want to state that I think rape is an appaling crime committed by cowards.

That said…back of the envelope calculations show me the 99.9914% of the NZ male population are not rapists and have, most likely, never ever entertained the thought of raping someone

I disputed that:

I challenge you on 99.9914%. I think rapists are a small minority of males (and it should be said a very small minority of females), but I’d be very surprised if the minority is that small.

You are the one quibbling about statistics, Pete. You bravely “challenge” someone’s figure of 99.9914% NZ men being non-rapists, but produce no evidence whatsoever to prove your case.

If you check my original post at 6:51 pm, I am not trying to “discredit” you as such. I simply query whether the figure of 99.9914% NZ men being non-rapists is at all accurate, and provide some rough calculations to show that if anything, it’s under-stated. As I said at the time, if you have better stats to back up the challenge you issued to La Grand Fomage, let’s see them. But it would appear that, despite “challenging” La Grand Fomage, you have no evidence to say otherwise.

I am simply doing something that you do frequently, Pete. Asking someone (you) to back up their assertions with evidence.

Secondly, to address your statement that “I didn’t say graham aids rape becasue he is a man, that’s either a misunderstanding or a blatant misrepresentation of what I have said.”

Strictly speaking, that’s true – what you did say, however, is that (possibly) the majority of men aid rape. And as I am a man, I tend to fall into that category of “the majority”. Again, directly from your blog:

And there are many more men, possible a majority, who aid rape by:
– being an active participant in the rape culture
– passively ignoring rape culture

I think you’re trying to back-track by quibbling over semantics. But hey … people can go to your blog, Pete, read what you’ve written, and judge for themselves what it is you’re really saying.

Finally, having stated that you didn’t accuse me of aiding rape, you then ONCE AGAIN state that “graham … may be aiding rape by ignoring the problem and trying to divert attention to something trivial.”

Just not even worth responding to you, Pete. Because I know that if I try to defend myself – against something I shouldn’t even have to – you will sanctimoniously preach that I am typical of the problem. And as I have said, I just have too much damn work to do to waste time on someone who just … doesn’t … get it.

The thing is, Pete, I AM addressing the ACTUAL issue you raised. You didn’t raise an issue of rape, as such. You raised the issue of “Rape culture”. That is what your blog post is about. What I am doing – and some others – is simply questioning, “challenging” if you like, the assertion that there is a rape culture. There have been a few assertions on this, but where is the EVIDENCE to back it up? Your blog post seems to simply state it as fact. I’m questioning you on that supposed “fact”, and you’re criticising me for it.

Rape is a problem. No disagreement. Trying to manufacture a “culture” that may not exist, does not help it.
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March 8, 2013 8:17am
Pete George

You’ve chosen not to answer what I asked about what Kea and Andre have said.
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March 8, 2013 8:38am
graham

And you’ve chosen not to back up your assertions with evidence.

Pot, meet kettle.
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March 8, 2013 9:16am

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