General Debate 31 July 2009

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment160

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (160)

Login to comment or vote

Ryan Sproull

Komata,

You may be right in your observation of correlation, but you’re making a leap if you’re claiming causation.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 12:49pm
kiwipolemicist

Komata:

There’s a strong correlation between race, welfare dependency, and living in voluntary squalor. I believe that the common link between these things is world view.

A lot of these people live in state houses and many of them have little respect for property rights. That respect is reduced further where state property is involved and their Entitilitis makes them think that they are entitled to do what they like with that property (aided by the fact that the property owner isn’t going to punch their lights out, as a neighbour might when stolen from).

Mowing the lawn with a parang is feasible if you’re on welfare and you’ve got all day to do it.

I have observed similar things:

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/the-problem-with-democracy-part-one/

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/poisonous-are-the-fruits-of-welfarism/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:04pm
wreck1080

Why did Xue get such a short sentence? 12 years for a brutal killing , and abandoning his child, and running away from it all.

Maybe they should just send him to club med instead.

Lets just say, in 12 years, Xue might be out.

But, his wife will still be dead and buried.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:36pm
Brian Smaller

When you were at school and needed a calculator who got it for you? Was it a trivial purchase or one that the family had to stretch to make? Or did you just have to do without?

I had a slide rule – still have it and still use it. I got my first calculator at Uni and fortunately I found it on the road going out to Massey (Palmy).

When you got your first job – how did you find out about it – family friend perhaps? A colleague of your fathers, maybe?

I rode my bike around all the local shops/businesses and asked if I could get job. When I was 12 I was doing paper round, and after school working cleaning smoko room in a local business. At College I worked in Chicken farms, washing dishes in restaurants and labouring. At Uni I worked packing bread at night.

And who did you get to provide your references? How did you know them?

No one did. I got my jobs off my own bat. My father painted houses so was not exactly an influential person in the community.

And how did you dress? And how did you know how to dress? And who provided the appropriate clothes?

When not in school uniform I wore tee shirts and jeans as a teenager. As a younger kid I wore dorky shorts and David Bain jerseys. My mother brought my clothes or made them.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:39pm
freethinker

nickb (86) Vote: 1 1 Says:
July 31st, 2009 at 9:46 am

Sir Roger- what a trougher alright. Hypocrite.
Is he related to phil by any chance

Nick – Sir Roger and others have the right to free travel by virtue of previously being an MP/Minister – current status is irrelevant – Sir Geoffrey Palmer has and uses the same right so it is unfair to criticise them for using what that are entitled to unless you support not drawing sickness benefit when entitled. By all mean criticise the policy which no longer exists anyway.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:41pm
freethinker

Kiwipolemiscist
10/10 for the Bradford expose, do you have any info on how many of her 70+ criminal convictions I understand she has have a violence aspect.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:43pm
MyNameIsJack

wreck1080 (576) Vote: 0 0 Says:

July 31st, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Why did Xue get such a short sentence? 12 years for a brutal killing , and abandoning his child, and running away from it all.

Maybe they should just send him to club med instead.

Lets just say, in 12 years, Xue might be out.

But, his wife will still be dead and buried.

As i read it, it is a minimum 12 years, so could be longer.

But, for the sake of humouring you, what if he was sentenced to 24 years? Even after 24 years, his wife will still be dead and buried.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:48pm
MyNameIsJack

Brian Smaller (1395) Vote: 0 0 Says:

July 31st, 2009 at 1:39 pm
When you were at school and needed a calculator who got it for you? Was it a trivial purchase or one that the family had to stretch to make? Or did you just have to do without?

My mother brought my clothes or made them

What a shame deucation seemed to pass you by.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:49pm
Brian Smaller

What a shame deucation seemed to pass you by.

Actually I have a degree in history, which served me well seeing as I spent my working life in IT. What is your excuse Jack?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 1:54pm
CraigM

“Even after 24 years, his wife will still be dead and buried.”

You are correct. A good arguement for a life sentence meaning life. 12 years minimum for premeditated murder by manual strangulation seems ridiculously light.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:09pm
KiwiGreg

I saw Key at school on Wednesday. I still thing there is something cool about the access New Zealanders have to their politicians compared with other countries.

I remember when I lived in Wellington and was entertaining some Aussies for lunch and we were actually talking about that fact when the (then) Deputy PM wandered over, said “hi” and sat down for lunch.

We take that sort of thing for granted in this country.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:13pm
Cerium

As compared to this?

Today’s WaPo: It was an unsettling image: Arrayed in front of the neighborhood barbershop last week were four burly men with the characteristic earpieces and bulky suits that marked them as security officers. Inside, gracing the barber’s chair, was the well-trimmed director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Robert Mueller.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/29/AR2009072902627.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:23pm
paradigm

Great speech by Brash yesterday on closing the gap with Australia.
Hearld carries an average article about it,
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10587633

however also have the original text available as pdf for those of despise sound/textbites 🙂
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/brashspeech.pdf
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:25pm
KiwiGreg

@cerium In fairness US officials are way more at risk, both from their own and other’s people.

But I lived and worked in DC for 2 1/2 years and the closest I got was seeing the motorcade race past.

I did once share a lift with Jay-Z in New York but as I had no idea at the time who he was the effect was somewhat missed.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:29pm
Patrick Starr

“Why did Xue get such a short sentence?”

its because these wankers =
“Ten years is not, in anyone’s estimation, a short sentence,” Mr Comeskey said.” -go on to become the judges
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:29pm
andrei

I had a slide rule

A slide rule huh. Actually that’s really cool, I wish I had one. But it dates you. As you know a slide rule is a precision instrument and in pre-calculator days probably somewhat expensive, in equivalent terms far more than a scientific calculator would be today would be my guess.

So who paid for it? And how many of your peers had one?

My father painted houses so was not exactly an influential person in the community.

A labourer? A tradesman? Or did he have his own business? For your father being of the WW2 generation, I’d guess and a trade qualification for that generation would carry more or less the equivalent status as a Bachelors degree would today – no?

How disadvantaged do you think you really were compared to your contemporaries?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:31pm
KiwiGreg

@andrei Is this a competition? Can you only win if you have the most “disadvantaged” background?

My father was a council worker and lived in a council flat (well house if you must) but I had the most amazing and (as I look back on it ) privileged childhood.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:36pm
Brian Smaller

andrei – everyone had a slide rule. We used them in sword fights. They were cheap even then. I wasn’t disadvantaged compared to my contemporaries. I wasn’t advantaged either.

How is any of that relevent to the fact that some people wont put their rubbish in bags and out on the street once a week? I repeat – they seem to like living in squalor.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:39pm
kiwipolemicist

freethinker:

Thanks. I’ve added another video to the Bradford expose.

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/sue-bradford-is-a-liar/

As regards her criminal record, I’ve only been able to find a broad picture. Why is a person who has sworn to uphold the laws of NZ proud of her criminal convictions?

http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/sue-bradford-is-proud-of-her-criminal-convictions/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:43pm
Brian Smaller

Andrei – I brought a scientific calculator for my son during the holidays from Warehouse Stationary. It cost $15. Reduced to $10 because I had a voucher from the junk mail. That was about the cost of a packet of cigarettes, or a couple of coffees or drinks at the Olympic Hotel, or a dvd rental, or a snack pack thingy frolm KFC. The reason that some poor kids don’t have a calculator is that their parents didn’t buy it. Don’t tell me that $10 is a lot to some people – then save for it at $1 a week for ten weeks, or 50c/week for 20 weeks – whatever it takes to get the thing that your kid needs at school.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 2:47pm
Jeff83

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090619/entertainment/us_dying_wish
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 3:11pm
Patrick Starr

andrei – You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o’clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down the mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 3:18pm
Chthoniid

@Bok

Chthoniid
Another great shot. I had a lovely experience on Tuesday. Went for a drive out to Berowa Waters north of Sydney and we were having a little picnic. (Ploughman’s lunch , cheese, pate, cold sausage, baguette and wine) when down out of the trees a rather large kookaburra…Far from the beige colour I sort of thought they were. Lots of blues, and greens and brown in small flecks.

Thanks- I’m giving serious consideration to a photographic trip across the Tasman once lectures end. It’s been a good while and I appreciate the fact that the Australian avifauna are not at all shy about being photographed…

Really though, want to get some proper crocodile shots of the beasts in their natural habitat (N Queensland probably).
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 3:18pm
Alan Wilkinson

Chtoniid, Bok.

Reminds me of lunch at the Undara lava caves cafe with the local kookaburra perched handily ready to dive on a nearby post while the staff circled underneath it warily trying to protect the customers’ plates. Pretty birds and not stupid either.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 3:42pm
side show bob

Well done Kiwipolemicist, this woman deserves a post at the UN.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 3:51pm
KiwiGreg

@ patrick: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o’clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of ‘ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:05pm
Brian Smaller

Kiwigreg. All of the above except that we got up at half past five, three hours before we went to bed. etc etc.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:08pm
kiwipolemicist

side show bob:

Thanks. She’s got a MA in Chinese, so I was thinking of shipping her over there. She’d fit right in at the Great Hall of the People, and it’s just across the road from Tiananmen Square so she could have fun giving the order to fire when the next protest rolls around. I can just see her with a Chinese-made AK47, emptying magazine after magazine into the crowd of uppity proles…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hall_of_the_People
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:10pm
Brian Smaller

Different topic
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2706942/Couple-found-dead-accidentally-gassed-themselves

Unfortunately they don’t qualify for Darwin Awards so don’t waste your time nominating them. Seriously – how dumb can you be? A gas fire in a bedroom?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:12pm
KiwiGreg

@ brian still tough on the 3 kids under 13 left behind, even if their parents were a bit dim
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:17pm
Patrick Starr

But you try and tell the young people today that… and they won’t believe ya’
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:17pm
Brian Smaller

KiwiGreg – Tough on the kids for sure.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:21pm
Cerium

Dumb? Maybe. Or it could have been a lapse of judgement. We all do things at times that we later wonder what the heck we were thinking (or not thinking). If we get away with it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 4:50pm
philu

still reaching for/relying on the ‘classics’ there..eh starr..?

..(are you up to ‘m’ for monty python..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 5:09pm
Neil

I attended the Local Govt AGM in Christchurch early this week- an outstanding conference where the government was very well received.
Rodney Hide was received quite well, despite some of his utterances.
However Rodney was saved from criticism when the Mayor of North Shore, Andrew Williams, asked a nasty and very personal question. Rodney answered it well and you could feel the support for Hide from the audience increase while there were rumblings of anger towareds Williams.
People later described Williams as a plonker. Some of the other stupid left wingers from Auckland also looked stupid, when they threatened to disrupt Hide’s speech.
What Hide and National are saying about local government is now very close to what LGNZ is saying.
Hide has been floating ideas about rate capping,amalgamation and transparency. Hide is not in the real cabinet process. National will not buy a fight with the local government sector, however there will be an emphasis on government reducing demands on local government with additional requirements and no finance. John Carter was a refreshibng voice, talking calmly and for the first time for years you felt the government was truly going to work with local government.
Contrary to what the bloggers might say, local government costs NZers about the cost of a coffee a day and delivers services like sewerage,water,libraries,swimming pools,roads etc. Not a bad deal. Some of our biggest critics can criticise but offer nothing.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 5:12pm
Patrick Starr

@neil
“Some of the other stupid left wingers from Auckland also looked stupid, when they threatened to disrupt Hide’s speech.”

which ones?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 5:50pm
Patrick Starr

“still reaching for/relying on the ‘classics’ there..eh starr..?”

phool; I like old jokes – maybe that’s why I tolerate you?

And speaking of living in the past – I hate to break it to you but the Hippie movement is so outdated. Everyone else moved on except you it seems
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 5:51pm
toad

DPF, how come your “Have you ever smoked cannabis?” poll doesn’t have a “Don’t remember” option?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:09pm
Patrick Starr

“poll doesn’t have a “Don’t remember” option?”

Toad – many of the 176 votes are philu every time he logs in (doesn’t remember if he’s already voted )
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:16pm
philu

i can’t remember if i ticked the poll..or not..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:18pm
philu

can you multi-vote..?

what fucken use is that then..?

it renders any result a total fantasy..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:20pm
philu

“..I hate to break it to you but the Hippie movement is so outdated..”

i hate to break it to you..

..but its’ moment is nigh..

(and weren’t/aren’t they ‘right’ about so many things..?..eh..?..

.esp the later/new generation vegan/low-footprint model..eh..?)

i have the utmost respect for them..as models of how to live without trashing/thrashing the planet..

..but the reactionary-rightwing dosen’t give a flying fuck about ‘ trashing/thrashing the planet’..

eh..?

..as long as there is a buck to be made..

..eh..?

(step right on up..!..bloody-hands-bob..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:28pm
Bryan Spondre aka The Link Whore

“More must be done to expose the constant stream of lies the left use to advance their agenda.”

Keep up the good work Russell, the good people of Tauranga must be protected from their own ignorance and you Mr Fletcher are just the man to do it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 6:31pm
side show bob

Sorry Philu have not dispatched anything today but sent 5 calves to their maker via the bobby calf truck yesterday. Spring is such a lovely time of year, so much mayhem, so much new life. Just been out to check the cows and 10 new calves, oh joy, plenty of work tomorrow and I suppose it will bloody rain, such is life.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 8:32pm
Steve

Phool,
How money did you get today? how much of our money did you spend? did you save some?
You really are a joke
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 8:38pm
Hurf Durf

i hate to break it to you..

..but its’ moment is nigh..

Oh God, not again.

brb, joining the cops to crack some naive dopesmoking dreadlocked Green-voting skulls.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 8:45pm
philu

anyway..as an attempt to instigate some discourse..

this is kinda interesting..

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/the-rise-of-gonzo-porn-is-the-latest-sign-of-americas-cultural-apocalypse/

“..The cultural embrace of illusion, and the celebrity culture that has risen up around it..

.. have accompanied the awful hollowing out of the state.

We have shifted from a culture of production to a culture of consumption.

We have been sold a system of casino capitalism, with its complicated and unregulated deals of turning debt into magical assets..

.. to create fictional wealth for us .. and vast wealth for our elite.

We have internalized the awful ethic of corporatism — one built around the cult of the self and consumption as an inner compulsion —

– to believe that living is about our own advancement .. and our own happiness at the expense of others.

Corporations, behind the smoke screen, have ruthlessly dismantled and destroyed our manufacturing base .. and impoverished our working class.

The free market became our god and government was taken hostage by corporations..

.. the same corporations that entice us daily with illusions though the mass media, the entertainment industry and popular culture.

The more we sever ourselves from a literate, print-based world, a world of complexity and nuance, a world of ideas.

.. for one informed by comforting, reassuring images, fantasies, slogans .. and a celebration of violence ..

..the more we implode..”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 8:54pm
nickb

I hate WFF.
It has turned the nations middle class into a bunch of Phil U’s, more more more…..
Our nations middle class are now mostly state beneficiaries.

Let these people keep their money in the first place FFS, make private schooling/medical care tax deductible…

And kick serial bludgers off the beneift
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:05pm
kaya

Just watched the greatest swordfight in the history of the cinema for the first time in around a year. Mind you, I’ve watched it over 200 times!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3gfFVmw0kA&feature=related

Absolutely brilliant!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:11pm
hubris

Absolutely brilliant!

Yeah, absolutely awesome movie 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:21pm
getstaffed

We have shifted from a culture of production to a culture of consumption

Oh yes, fewer people are producing (generating tax revenue), and more – like you phil – are mindlessly and selfishly consuming.

… one built around the cult of the self

That’s rich, coming from the most selfish person posting here.

Ah, why bother. Your worthless diatribe is nothing more than tired, drug-induced, anti-establishment drivel. Again.

Kaya: Agree 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:24pm
nickb

We have internalized the awful ethic of corporatism — one built around the cult of the self and consumption as an inner compulsion —

– to believe that living is about our own advancement .. and our own happiness at the expense of others.

What does that sound like to me phil?
Does a person having 38% of their wages stolen to pay for your living make you seem to feel like you are a “cult of the self”?

Phil, you still havne’t answered why you think you are entitled to live off the backs of others, even when 2 parent families with more kids than you can still both work 40+ hours. Your excuse for this fascinates me, as does your continual ducking of an answer- come on, you’re not normally short for a word
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:30pm
philu

i see you’ve taken a very simplistic.one-dimensional/rightwing reading of that..stuffed..

..can’t see the ideas..for the words..

..eh..?

it’s obvious that both you..and nic..

..are part of the problem..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:40pm
nickb

So got an answer yet phil?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 9:45pm
philu

nah nic..!

like most others..still looking/searching..

(tho’ i have worked out..that we shouldn’t eat other animals..

you can take that as a ‘given’..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 10:15pm
nickb

Haha ok phil will do.
Is anyone is disgusted by Roger Douglas’s behaviour as I am?
I know you will be phil.
What a prat. Has been in parliament half of his working life and is straight back in the trough after 6months of Parliament.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 10:18pm
Bok

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10587854
Yep Libertarians.. it is a victimless crime….
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 11:30pm
Angus

Bok, true. Much of the libertarian doctrine only applies in a Robinson Crusoe type situation. (before companion Friday shows up at least]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 31, 2009 11:37pm
kiwipolemicist

Bok and Angus:

I have written a response to your comments:
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/woman-kills-son-whilst-stoned-but-drugs-are-a-victimless-crime/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 1, 2009 11:27am
James

Bok and Angus….you are ignorant idiots…..and probably need someone toi wipe your bums and tuck you in at night as it seems you are not capable pof doing so yourselves going by your statements.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 1, 2009 3:13pm

More comments:

‹
1
2

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« MPs expenses

The moderation experiment »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.3K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Mike's Minute: The celeb trend for the election is a bust
Breaking Views
Waikato Med School – National’s zombie “pet project” won’t die
Point of Order
Sowell says
Hompaddock
Deep Pockets, Short Arms.
No Minister
Bill Maher on the election and “progressophobia”
Utopia
THE BIG DAY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Is David Seymour’s new school lunch provider involved with Christchurch Uni mass poisoning?
The Daily Blog
Open mike 05/11/2024
The Standard
Sabotaging justice
No Right Turn
What would Sumner say about Trump and Vance’s pro-tariff rhetoric?
Not PC
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
NZ media’s “propagandisation” of the US Election
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
US military-industrial-sports complex.
Kiwipolitico
The Battle for Democracy
NZCPR
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Where are the food carts?
Offsetting Behaviour
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz