General Debate 29 June 2009

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Redbaiter

Good rant on Obama-

http://www.zombie-slayer.com/neal/?p=171
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June 29, 2009 9:10am
bjchip

Just a reminder, there is a bill now before parliament that allows for the legalization of medical marijuana. This bill can easily be lost but it should not be tossed out.

The effectiveness of cannabis for treatment of Glaucoma, Cancer, Multiple-Sclerosis, Parkinsons and a host of other ailments is very well documented. Its use for pain-relief in a hospice setting is also well supported.

Ask yourself why a 44 year old agreement with the US DEA should deny New Zealanders access to effective medicine? Medical use under medical supervision.

I know someone will claim “This is the first step towards legalizing drugs” What of it? Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs and saw a reduction in drug related costs to their society that was really quite remarkable. Harm minimization works. This comes from that notable bunch of left-wingers at the Cato institute.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

However, the bill in question now is only about medical use under medical supervision.

Why should New Zealanders continue to suffer in 2009 because someone made a mistake in 1976?

respectfully
BJ
I
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June 29, 2009 9:24am
Glutaemus Maximus

Baiters link to the rant about ‘The One’, is very interesting.

I am still concerned about the lack of transparency issues.

A magical Orator, but ever so short on substance. The bailouts will have to accelerate soon as the Toxic derivatives become due for

payment. Just watch the feathers fly then,

America is starting to retreat into it’s shell economically. As is par for the course.

Anyway, enough of the Bat Eared man of Mystery.

If our New Government can persue Winston First and all the other malcontents from the former administration who stole

money from the Tax Payers. Then we can start to get some plans to-gether for that cycleway, and we can make it an expressway

betweeen Mickey Takers place and Sonic’s, and Bork Bork’s. Might be quite a short track!
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June 29, 2009 9:41am
Neil

Watched TVOne’s 7.30 programme last night about Otorohanga’s flagship Enterprising Communities and its mayor Dennis Williams.
I looked favourably on the whole thing until Len Brown,socialist mayor of Manukau and that wonderful Labour leader Phil Goff came on singing its praises.
Then to see Paula Bennett run away from an interview it makes me suspicious.
Personally I don’t see the Otorohanga projects as a normally sensible project in job creation, far too much direction and a lack of personal motivation. However I would like to have some feedback with ratepayers from Otorahanga and its environs. Is it is good as it is made out to be ?
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June 29, 2009 10:07am
gd

If anyone is still to be convinced that the TOW matter is nothing more than a scam by a minority on a majority read Muriel Newsmans column this week.

She details a Ngai Tahu claim that was settled in 1906 then again in 1944 then again in 1973 and then again in 1998.

Note how the time lines represent a succession of generations coming back to the public trough.

Unless the citizens call time on these settlements and force politicans and civil servants to adhere to their will there will be a continuation of this fraud.
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June 29, 2009 10:13am
Jack5

The State-owned electronic news media abandon any pretence to impartiality in their coverage of the “smacking referendum” and related cases.

Labour Radio news this morning reported the result of the Christchurch father prosecuted for the incident which he maintained he flicked their ears. It started by saying he had escaped a jail term. You don’t get much more biased than that.

Labour Radio is also hammering the cost of the “smacking referendum” and the Auckland poll of a few hundred which indicated most New Zealanders think the poll is a waste of time. (It would be nice if DPF, a statistics and polling authority could check this poll our for us.)

Can other posters tell me whether I was hallucinating to see a video clip in which the former Labour Party chairman/president, dirty-tricks strategist and temporary board member of a thousand state organisations was featured? He was trying to ridicule the use of temporary cells made out of shipping containers to house prisoners. This despite other media coverage proving these are even more luxurious than current prison accommodation.

What is State TV doing featuring this guy?
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June 29, 2009 10:18am
philu

this is very very cool..!

(and in a non-ideological way..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2009/aptera-oodles-of-cool-in-the-google-carthis-is-very-cool/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 29, 2009 10:19am
starboard

.. starbored..just so we are clear here..you advocate the removal of all state support for sole-parents..and their ilk..?

..oh no no no flu..you tell me why I should be contributing to you and yours upkeep.Im payin you sonny , you tell me why I should continue…
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June 29, 2009 10:22am
Jack5

Re Neil’s post at 10.07am….

My question is why should taxpayers in Whangarei or Bluff help fund Otorohanga’s scheme? If it’s just the employment of one or even two workers to work alongside the young folk, why can’t Otograhanga ratepayers pick up the bill?

The rest of the country already is pumping subsidies into places like south Auckland via higher police numbers etc.

When export wood-processing mills close in Southland I didn’t see the mayors popping up on TV seeking taxpayer help.

Socialism-welfarism is stuffing the country. I was dismayed to hear even on the Christian TV channel a woman advocating the national need was for “strategies”. Holy smoke.
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June 29, 2009 10:25am
philu

so..starbored..yr answer to that question is clearly ..’yes’..

..(and why so coy about the libertarean component of that question..(from another thread..)..?

eh..?

(whoar..!..talk about ‘the ‘creativity’/slant of selective-editing’..eh..?..)

you aren’t ‘ashamed’ of yr dubious political credentials/fantasy..are you..?

..starbored..?

(c’mon..!..give us our dismissive snigger..!..

..own up to being a furniture-chewing nutbar..

..in the form of a libertarian..(snort..!.)..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 29, 2009 10:29am
starboard

just answer the question loser…
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June 29, 2009 10:33am
philu

what’s the point ..?..starbored..?

yr libertarianism makes everything you say laugh-out-loud funny..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 29, 2009 10:38am
TMC

Did you see online from The Press or on Stuff:

“Christchurch professional musician Jimmy Mason has been sentenced to 9 months’ supervision, including attending anger management counselling, for assaulting his son. ”

I don’t mean to stir up the bigger debate with this. No, the part that is really funny/strange is this:

“Earlier this month a jury found Mason guilty of hitting his elder son in the head but not guilty on charges related to slamming his children’s bicycles on the ground.”

So he was up on charges for slamming bikes on the ground? That’s either something very strange in NZ law or really shonky journalism. Either way, it needs a little more explanation.

How does one get charged for abusing a bicycle???

I haven’t actually cleaned mine in a while. I don’t even have a kickstand on it. That’s sorta dangerous huh? What if it falls over? I could be charged. Hmm…would I get much respect at Mt Eden prison for that sorta thing?

“What are you in for, dude?”
“I kicked the crap out of my Schwinn…”
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June 29, 2009 10:46am
starboard

..pfftt..
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June 29, 2009 10:53am
bjchip

TMC

Not sure but doesn’t an “assault” include making a credible threat of violence? That might actually explain the charge. I have to admit that you made it funnier than the explanation though. 🙂

BJ
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June 29, 2009 11:19am
philu

indeed..!..starbored..indeed..!

(thought you’d end on a ‘pfftt!’..eh..?

..better than a whimper tho’..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 29, 2009 11:21am
Inventory2

Complete change of subject – I am over Henry and Co as All Black coaches. The three tests so far this season have shown the team going backwards.

Henry’s very first All Black team thrashed a strong England side 36-3. In 2009, they struggled to beat Italy, and were flattered by a 21-point winning margin. We’ve reached the end of our tether, so it’s time for a change

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2009/06/time-for-change.html

And in the best traditions of Paul Henry, we’re not just going to moan about it – we’ve started a group!!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=94348447172&ref=nf
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June 29, 2009 11:24am
Cerium

TMC, it had something to do with the kids being on the bikes at the time. I presume you knew that, if so, funny post.
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June 29, 2009 11:31am
big bruv

IV2

I gave up on them years ago, it has now reached the stage where I hate the team and cheer for the opposition every time they play.

When ever we have Canterbury coaches, captains and players in the team they are crap.
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June 29, 2009 11:41am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

“What are you in for, dude?”
“I kicked the crap out of my Schwinn…”
hahaha brilliant
you would have to say it with force though, to get respect
kinda like the Chris Rock driving too slow clip
“Hey man what are you in for.” “I was driving too SLOW! That’s right I was driving reeeal sloow man! Smoozing along! I’d do it again PUNK! I don’t give a fuck who you murdered, I was driving to SLOW! So I’ll slow drive all over your ASS man!”
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June 29, 2009 11:44am
Chthoniid

IV2 – for me the mystique of the All Blacks was exploded in the quarter-finals at Cardiff against France. It has not recovered since then.

I was prepared to give Henry a grudging second chance, but the guy cannot pick a good team to match the opposition to save himself.
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June 29, 2009 12:02pm
Inventory2

I’m the same as you Chthoniid – I was neutral on his reappointment after RWC 2007, but now have changed my opinion, based largely on the All Blacks’ lame performances so far this season.

Sure, they are missing some key players, but they got beaten up by the French in Dunedin (and that just doesn’t happen to All Black teams!), and they were passionless in Christchurch on Saturday night. After six years of Henry and Co’s coaching, the team looks stale, lacking in any vision or passion, and stuck in a rut.

And to put things in context – I have been following the All Blacks for close to 50 years and been going to test matches for more than 40, but have seldom seen an All Black team as bereft of ideas as the current crop. That worries me greatly.
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June 29, 2009 12:12pm
bjchip

Interesting that two people felt strongly enough to downtick the post on the medpot issue but don’t think it is worth arguing.

I was sort of hoping for a little sport here, but wound up with a discussion of the All-Blacks instead.

🙂

BJ
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June 29, 2009 12:18pm
Owen McShane

You may have seen this rubbish in the Herald this morning.

“United Nations Under-Secretary-General Dr Anna Tibaijuka told a public gathering in Auckland last week the world could not tackle climate change and other environmental issues without redesigning city living.

“Cars had given us inefficient, sprawling settlements, she said.

“Maybe there is a case for putting up a tax and those who live in the suburbs have to pay it.”

Dr Tibaijuka is the executive director of UN-HABITAT, the arm of the UN charged with promoting socially and environmentally sustainable towns and cities.
The full story is here.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10581254

Now this is all piffle.

The truth is quite different. On the best evidence available if there is a tax (at least in New World Cities) it should be on the people in the central cities. Central city households have the highest fossil fuel consumption and the highest carbon footprint.

Just go to “Consuming Australia” for the full story, at:
http://www.acfonline.org.au:80/uploads/res/res_atlas_main_findings.pdf

These anti-car, anti-freedom characters cannot come to terms with the fact that transport (rail, planes, and cars) accounts for only 10% of the family footprint and or energy consumption.
It is the smallest slice of the pie.

Food is over 30%.

We don’t need UN academics who know nothing about New Zealand telling us to tax ourselves more – especially when they have absolutely no evidence to support their case.
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June 29, 2009 12:59pm
Tui

Changing the thread. What do you all make of the rumour about Dunne seeking the post as Ambassador to the US or seeking to contest the Wellington Mayoralty? There has usually been a senior political appointment to Washington and the I think the US would feel snubbed if the Nats send Dunne. There are better people like Paul East who could do the job well.

Why not send revert to the time-honoured tradition of sending MPs to the Court of St James who have passed their use-by date in Parliament and who still want to keep their noses in the trough? Dunne for London! Recall the career diplomat.
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June 29, 2009 1:02pm
Brian Smaller

These anti-car, anti-freedom characters cannot come to terms with the fact that transport (rail, planes, and cars) accounts for only 10% of the family footprint and or energy consumption.
It is the smallest slice of the pie.

Food is over 30%.

I think you have just discovered how to solve the obesity epidemic then.
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June 29, 2009 1:21pm
MyNameIsJack

What is John Key and his government doing about the economic crisis? Where are the results from the Job Summit?

9 day fortnight = 345 “jobs saved’.

Cycleway = 0 jobs saved.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH, JOHN!
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June 29, 2009 1:28pm
Manolo

“What do you all make of the rumour about Dunne seeking the post as Ambassador to the US..?”

I wish the rumours were true. It’s about time to shift the ultimate political prostitute, the meretricious Dunne, to another location far away from Wellington. I suggest Ulan Bator.
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June 29, 2009 1:29pm
bjchip

I am all for term limits of 3 terms. Two terms in parliament to be followed by a term in prison.

Call it guilt by association.

🙂

BJ
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June 29, 2009 1:32pm
Chthoniid

What is John Key and his government doing about the economic crisis? Where are the results from the Job Summit?

9 day fortnight = 345 “jobs saved’.

Cycleway = 0 jobs saved.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH, JOHN!

Bringing forward infrastructure projects relating to roading, schools and the like= thousands of jobs sustained.
Avoiding credit downgrade so as to keep debt servicing and interests rates lower= thousands of jobs saved

Good job John.
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June 29, 2009 1:33pm
MyNameIsJack

Bringing forward infrastructure projects relating to roading, schools …

Tell that one to the parents at Aorangi School. I’m suure they could use a good laugh.

Avoiding credit downgrade … by the very same people who brought us the great financial crisis in the first place. These useless cunts are the first who should be stood up against the wall.
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June 29, 2009 1:36pm
Inventory2

Tui – have a squizz at the Espiner/Lockwood thread, and you’ll see a link from Keeping Stock to Dunne’s Facebook denial, and an accusation that Mallard has been lying yet again.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/espiner_on_mallard_vs_lockwood.html
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June 29, 2009 1:38pm
Father Ted

“These useless cunts are the first who should be stood up against the wall.”

Once again Jack shows us all that things are rather unwell inside his head. How else could you explain such terse debauchery constantly flowing from his frothing mouth? I would hate to think about it.Oh good Lord, some mothers do have them.
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June 29, 2009 1:44pm
MyNameIsJack

So Peter, you think that Standard and Poors are useful cunts, do you?
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June 29, 2009 1:49pm
Chthoniid

Bringing forward infrastructure projects relating to roading, schools …

Tell that one to the parents at Aorangi School. I’m suure they could use a good laugh.

Quite happy to MNIJ, just after you explain to the thousands of people in the construction and building industry that you’d rather they were unemployed- just to avoid crediting National with any jobs sustained.
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June 29, 2009 1:52pm
Brian Smaller

Bringing forward infrastructure projects relating to roading, schools …

Tell that one to the parents at Aorangi School. I’m suure they could use a good laugh.

Nice try Jack. Mallard shut down half a dozen schools in his own suburb of Wainuiomata. Sometimes these things are inevitable when there are too many schools and not enough kids in one location.
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June 29, 2009 2:30pm
backster

YET another example of the inadequacy of our Judicial system.

Christopher Wayne Patterson, 38, was given a life sentence with a 13-year non-parole period for murdering Mr Hutchings, while Nichole Field, Patterson’s de facto partner, was sentenced to two years’ jail for being an accessory after the fact.

No motive for the murderous attack was offered by the Crown during the hearings.

However, the Times can now reveal that Patterson and Field had also been charged with the rape of a young milking shed worker on December 28, 2007, and that Mr Hutchings had been present when Field held the girl down while Patterson raped her,

A young teenager (Hutchings)witnessed the rape and was stabbed repeatedly and his body thrown in the Clutha river..The judge excluded this evidence at the pre trial in case it prejudiced the murder charge…One wonders how many other killers besides the obvious one get away with murder because such evidence is concealed.
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June 29, 2009 2:31pm
Chicken Little

Agree backster – cumulative sentence for this loser would see him out of circulation for 20 years at least.
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June 29, 2009 2:50pm
MyNameIsJack

This is the pin up boy for Bob McCroskie and his fellow travellers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2548843/Father-sentenced-over-assaulting-son

The thug deserved jail, but I guess supervision and anger management is better than nothing.
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June 29, 2009 2:57pm
Father Ted

Jimmy Mason is no thug.
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June 29, 2009 3:14pm
Cerium

Jail was definitely not appropriate for Mason. But he could do with with some common sense (he risked taking three young children, two being taught to ride bikes, to a busy part of town), and maybe some anger management pointers will help him realise that losing your temper, especially in risk situations, doesn’t help with kid management.
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June 29, 2009 3:18pm
big bruv

MNIJ

It is all well and good to have a crack at Key (as I do often) but as yet I have not seen you or any of the other pinko’s tell us what Key should be doing to save these jobs.

Do you think he should cripple the country with debt as B Hussein Messiah Obama is doing to the USA?
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June 29, 2009 3:19pm
big bruv

D4J

If Mason did indeed punch his kid then he is a thug, if however he only smacked the kid then as far as I am concerned (and 87% of the Kiwi population) he did nothing wrong.
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June 29, 2009 3:21pm
terry

Does the Road Transport Forum work out of the Ministers office….?

Road Transport Forum chief executive Tony Friedlander is a former National Party cabinet minister……

50 tonne trucks will each cause 6,250,000 times more damage to the roads than a one tonne car, according to a formula developed by Transit New Zealand….

Trucking companies use the roads paid for by the average motorist, yet they don’t pay even a fraction of the cost of the damage they do….

So we the taxpayer and ratepayer and ordinary motorists prop up trucking companies….
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June 29, 2009 3:23pm
MyNameIsJack

big bruv, a jury of his peers heard the evidence and decided that yes, he did punch his son.That makes him a thug. And look at the eyes, look at the eyes.
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June 29, 2009 3:44pm
wreck1080

I wonder, now that michael laws publicly said on the radio that he smacks his kids, if the cops will have the gonads to charge him.

Surely an on -air admission of guilt is sufficient to convict? He is performing criminal acts after all.

This is a bit like prosecuting rodney hide over his yellow jacket with respect to the electoral finance act.

Just to show what an ass this antismacking law really is.

On one hand the government is calling you a criminal for smacking, on the other, they are saying, “but we won’t charge you”.
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June 29, 2009 3:52pm
Cerium

There is no evidence that Mason is a thug.

There is evidence he took his kids into a risky situation.
He has admitted having an “angry dad” moment ie lost his cool.
A jury has determined he hit his son somewhere in the head.
His attitude suggests he thinks all this is ok.

He needs to learn how to be a better dad. And it would help if he wasn’t led to believe 80% of NZ supported him.
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June 29, 2009 4:00pm
Simon

Obama jokes from Rush.

How does Obama differ from God?
• God does not think he’s Obama.
• Liberals love Obama.
• God asks for only 10% of your money.
• God gives you freedom to live your life as you choose.
• God’s plan to save us is actually written down for people to read.
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June 29, 2009 4:03pm
Ryan Sproull

Here’s a question for those who smack their kids.

If you could buy a cattle-prod device that delivers exactly the same amount of pain as an appropriate smack, would you consider using it? Would you be okay with other parents using it?
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June 29, 2009 4:04pm
Cerium

• God gives you freedom to live your life as you choose.

Then why don’t those how claim to represent him/her/it give you that freedom? Without guilt.
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June 29, 2009 4:12pm
MyNameIsJack

• God gives you freedom to live your life as you choose.

Which god? Not the xtain one, that’s for sure.

• God’s plan to save us is actually written down for people to read.

Save us from what? the evil he created in the first place? What is this plan and where is it written?
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June 29, 2009 4:16pm
Inventory2

Cerium – you need to read the last two points together, not in isolation. God gives us a plan, but He also gives us the freedom as to whether we choose to follow it. If we choose not to, there will be consequences 🙂
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June 29, 2009 4:19pm
Hurf Durf

The Honduran President, a power hungry Chavez stooge, gets overthrown shortly before a referendum by the military ordered by the courts which found his referendum on grabbing even more power unconstitutional. Guess who Omoron sides with?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123513.stm
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June 29, 2009 4:21pm
Father Ted

“Which god? Not the xtain one, that’s for sure.”

A classick fugley line of foam.
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June 29, 2009 4:22pm
Ryan Sproull

Cerium – you need to read the last two points together, not in isolation. God gives us a plan, but He also gives us the freedom as to whether we choose to follow it. If we choose not to, there will be consequences

A fine argument, but you have not yet convinced me to convert to Islam.
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June 29, 2009 4:23pm
MyNameIsJack

Inventory2 (3214) Vote: 0 0 Says:

June 29th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Cerium – you need to read the last two points together, not in isolation. God gives us a plan, but He also gives us the freedom as to whether we choose to follow it. If we choose not to, there will be consequences

If there are consequences, where is the freedom?
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June 29, 2009 4:23pm
MyNameIsJack

Peter, read and be educated

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=xtian
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June 29, 2009 4:27pm
Hurf Durf

hurr durr im kool n edgy coz i say xtian stead of kkkhristian lol mummy where mah bottle
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June 29, 2009 4:28pm
Jack5

MyNameisJack at 1.28 posted:”…What is John Key and his government doing about the economic crisis? ..”

What are you on about you leftist troll? Do you think any NZ Prime Minister is capable of being Merlin the magician? Do you think our islands can solve the world financial crisis?

It’s a typical socialist stance though, to expect Wellington to solve everything. “The Gummint can fix it.” Labour would fuck the country by trying to fix it with another 400,000 social workers, planners, and general bureaucrats. That would sink the ship even lower in the water, and we would drift even further behind Australia.

Or Labour might pay $300 million over price for another heap of scrap metal like NZ Rail. Financial geniuses.
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June 29, 2009 4:29pm
MyNameIsJack

…drift even further behind Australia

Well, Key wanted to close the gap, but it is widening. Aus still doing much better than NZ, even after electing those horrid socialists.

I don’t expect Key to be a magician, but I DO expect some action, not just picnic lunches.

Disabled kids who NEED taxpayer help have just seen their funding cut while the rich prick’s private schools get a massive $Taxpayer dollop of cash. Why should the taxpayer prop up failing businesses? isn’t that what you mob always bleat?
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June 29, 2009 4:34pm
Cerium

MNIJ, I think you may be overstating the consequences, isn’t it just a bit of an eternal life in some hellish sort of place?
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June 29, 2009 4:34pm
MyNameIsJack

well, cerium, depends on the god.

The vengeful prick of the OT, Allah of the koran, the loving god of the NT who kills his own child? Jebus, not sure I want to take the chance, where do I sign up?
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June 29, 2009 4:39pm
Cerium

“Apparently I’ve got to learn how to be a good parent. So um, that’ll be interesting.”
Mason says he will continue to discipline his children, with a flick of the ear or a smack.

Jimmy, you may (hopefully) mostly be a pretty good dad, but you would be a better dad if you pulled your head in and learnt something from this.
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June 29, 2009 4:44pm
Inventory2

@ MNIJ (4.23pm) – the freedom is in the decision of whether you ignore the consequences or not – that decision is yours and yours alone to make.
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June 29, 2009 4:48pm
MyNameIsJack

Ryan Sproull (2080) 2 2 Says:

June 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Here’s a question for those who smack their kids.

If you could buy a cattle-prod device that delivers exactly the same amount of pain as an appropriate smack, would you consider using it? Would you be okay with other parents using it?

I found my 3 year old son hitting a wall in the house with the claw end of a small hammer. I took it off him, told him off and went to wallop him. My father in law said “Shouldn’t you be hitting me? I gave him the hammer”

made me think, put it in perspective.
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June 29, 2009 4:48pm
backster

BRUV::::::::: The prosecution evidence was that Mason punched the 4 yo, something Mason denied. There was no mark or visible injury arising from the punch, suggesting perhaps the infant was either punched with a powder puff or was superkid.
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June 29, 2009 4:49pm
Jack5

MyNameisJack posted at 4.34pm:”…the rich prick’s private schools get a massive $Taxpayer dollop of cash..”

MNIJ, I didn’t got to a private school, nor did my kids. However, I know that many kids at private schools come from ordinary wage-earning families who struggle and make sacrifices to get their kids a private education. From a practical viewpoint also, it’s like the private health system. Without it, the public system couldn’t cope. Nor could public schools. Private schools result in citizens as a whole providing more money for education.

Private schools today also offer an appealing alternative to a public system run by generally the same people who run the Labour Party. The result is that state schools reduce emphasis on basic skills like reading, writing, and arithmetic, to push politically correct bullshit into the nation’s children. Pacifism, feminism, and socialist mores. Look what this system is doing the country’s boy children.

It’s not suprising that leftist Minto is a state-school teacher. Mallard is a former teacher, I understand.

Catholic schools seem to be swamped at present by non-Catholics who want their children educated without being subjected to leftist, politically correct crap.

I applaud National for giving a little relief to keep private schools going. They are needed as never before.
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June 29, 2009 4:49pm
MyNameIsJack

Inventory2 (3215) Vote: 0 0 Says:

June 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
MNIJ – the freedom is in the decision of whether you ignore the consequences or not – that decision is yours and yours alone to make.

This is not freedom.

If you worship god in order to avoid the consequences, is your worship genuine?

As I do not feel the need for a god in my life, I am unafraid of the non existent consequences. How about you? Do you believe because of the consequences? And if so, what sort of a god do you believe in?
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June 29, 2009 4:50pm
Jack5

MNIJ: Re your 4.50 bit on God.

There are no atheists in foxholes. I think Ernie Pyle, the American reporter killed covering World War 2 wrote that.

If you are at your desk when the big earthquake hits Wellington, and especially if you are in a tilt-slab building, you will learn immediately how secure you are in your atheism.
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June 29, 2009 4:54pm
Banana Llama

When we get rid of the stupid fiat currency and encourage investment in productive enterprise we might get ahead of ‘stralia, but if we keep putting money into fucking houses i seriously doubt it.
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June 29, 2009 4:55pm
MyNameIsJack

well J5, I’m not in Wellington, nor am I in a fox hole.

Are you suggesting god would create an earthquake just to get my attention?

God sure helped all the people in all the earthquakes he’s caused so far, hasn’t he?
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June 29, 2009 4:59pm
Cerium

backster, you can’t be suggesting hitting in the head is ok as long as their is no visible injury??

I remember one case where a guy held a phone book against his partner’s head and punched that so he wouldn’t leave a mark. She ended up with brain damage.

Shaking a baby leaves no mark. Can easily cause brain damage. People die of head injuries with no visible marks.

You don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realise that even clipping a kid on the ear risks injuries that no good parent would want to see inflicted on their kid.
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June 29, 2009 5:00pm
Jack5

Re MNIJ at 4.59….

Re you, God, and the earthquake. Who knows?

What I think is that human brains aren’t powerful enough to work out whether there is some sort of omnipotent, omniscient power, and perhaps will never be powerful enough. I mean how did the universe start, and what was there before? Can we ever know?

I suggest you just relax and have a beer, and assume there could be something bigger and smarter than us humans. Think about things we can change and improve and don’t waste grey power on the unsolvable.
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June 29, 2009 5:06pm
Inventory2

MNIJ said “If you worship god in order to avoid the consequences, is your worship genuine?

As I do not feel the need for a god in my life, I am unafraid of the non existent consequences. How about you? Do you believe because of the consequences? And if so, what sort of a god do you believe in?”

Is my worship genuine? Plenty genuine thanks MNIJ, but at the end of the day it comes down to faith. But I’m reminded of something I heard a guy by the name of Tony Campolo say – he’s a Sociology professor and a Christian, and has lots of debates with his colleagues, and after one such debate, he said to the other guy – “Look at it this way – if you’re right, and there’s no afterlife, no heaven and no hell, then I won’t know about it. On the other hand, if I’M right, and there IS a heaven and a hell, you WILL know about it”
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June 29, 2009 5:07pm
Paul Marsden

cerium said: You don’t need to be a brain surgeon to realise that even clipping a kid on the ear risks injuries that no good parent would want to see inflicted on their kid.

Oh, for heavens sake cerium. Get real. As kids, we all got a flick around the ear when we stepped out of line,and from parents and teachers alike.

Something really smells about this case. First, always take with a grain of salt whatever the police might say in any court case. Secondly, where’s the photgraphic evidence of any injuries? (In fact, where’s the photgraphic evidence of the actual assault?) Thirdly, were were the so called ‘witnesses’ positioned in relation to the alleged ‘fist assault’? In other words, could they have mistaken an arm movement for a biff? I’m gonna have to go to the upstairs referee in this case.
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June 29, 2009 5:19pm
Chthoniid

Disabled kids who NEED taxpayer help have just seen their funding cut while the rich prick’s private schools get a massive $Taxpayer dollop of cash. Why should the taxpayer prop up failing businesses? isn’t that what you mob always bleat?

Spare me the crocodile tears MNIJ. The 2009 budget allocated an extra $51m to special needs children.
The issue around funding for disabled kids is longstanding, and goes back to the mainstreaming of such kids years ago. Labour had 9 years and budget surpluses to do something about it and failed.

I have a special needs kid and know first hand what support there really is. Large sums have been swallowed up in reports and consultations with little going to the frontline. I’ve just shelled out $500 to get an assessment done to qualify for a reader-writer for NCEA exams. In the kafka-esque world of child education support in NZ, the education bureaucrats agreed it was something I shouldn’t pay for, but it ought to be funded by the disability bureaucrats. The disability bureaucrats agreed it was something I shouldn’t pay for, but it ought to be funded by the education bureaucrats. Net result, I paid for it. Good job Labour screwed me even more by pushing my taxes up. Think of the stress that’s solved…
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June 29, 2009 5:36pm
Jack5

Re Paul at 5.19 and Cerium earlier…

I think the incident occurred at the Bridge of Remembrance in Christchurch. I had a look at this after the publicity. A path with a steepish incline comes down to what looks a fairly narrow footpath beside a fairly busy one-way street. I would be worried about a small child on a bike coming down that ramp.

I can’t understand the pair who complained about the father and then made a second complaint when the police provided a warning.

Why didn’t they race to the help of the father who way obviously in a panic about the safety of his kids on their bikes? Would a reasonable person have been put off even if the guy had said “no, I’m alright” or similar but ruder and appeared flustered or angry?

It would help if we knew who the complainant pair were so the media scrum could interview them and see whether they were genuinely stunned or rather were somehow politically motivated to give priority to making a national statement about smacking. It would also help if we knew the complainants’ experience in raising children and their views on smacking.

If the father had said something like “bugger off” but was struggling to control the situation, would you persist in efforts to help, or stand back, watch, then go to the police? Surely you might step up and said “don’t panic, we’re helping and everything’s under control” or similar.

In summary, it would be nice to know whether the complainants put potential prosecution ahead of offering help, and if so, why.
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June 29, 2009 5:50pm
grumpyoldhori

terry, trucks damage NZ roads that have not been built to take them.
My answer ALL road user funds from trucks to go back on the roads from where it was taxed.
That way the money will be available for truck only lanes.
As for suburban roads easy, make it a 3000KG gross limit per vehicle.
That way when you want to do a house dig instead of one six wheeler carting ten tonne you will need seven trucks carting 1500 KG each.
Hey, more trucks more profits for the industry.
Remember this is what you want.
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June 29, 2009 6:37pm
bjchip

If he’s already and obviously furious you stay the hell away Jack. If I see a guy throwing bicycles and yelling I do NOT get between him and his kids. If I happen to be smaller or older… it isn’t worth the risk.

I might well call the cops too, not because of the kids but because of the obvious lack of self-control.

It can have nothing to do with PC. You’re drawing a long bow here, considering that the police themselves thought he was not controlling himself well enough to ignore his actions. Remember that they have discretion, doesn’t matter what the complainant said.

respectfully
BJ
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June 29, 2009 6:59pm
Komata

Memo to Mr Goff:

If you ARE silly-enough to try to make capital out of the present government’s travel costs, I would suggest that you get your facts VERY, VERY correct – then remember that with nine years in Government behind you, your own past indiscretions will always come back to haunt you (as they have today) – JK has more ‘useful’ information on you and your Labour Party mates and THEIR wasteage than you will ever have on him – funny that. . .

After all, what goes around, comes around – and I would suggest that opening your mouth before engaging your brain (and being sure of your facts) makes you look soooooo foolish – as it did today.

And you didn’t even bother to check did you – just opened your mouth and spoke away?

Sorry Mr Goff, but once again you came across as looking very, very silly – becoming a habit isn’t it?

And yet you want STILL want us to believe in you?
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June 29, 2009 7:10pm
lilman

At the sawmill where I work I spoke to an Owner Driver about road users.
He said yes they hammer the roads but his unit had a 45 tonne sticker on it and for every km he traveled it cost him approx $4.00 a km.But what I wasnt aware of was that when he was empty of payload he still had to pay $4.00 a km, even though he paid to run full the entire journey.
If you ask me they pay more than their fair share.
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June 29, 2009 8:02pm
Jack5

Re bjchip at 6.59pm…

BJ, didn’t I read that the police initially warned the father, but the prosecution followed the complainants pressing the matter?

I don’t agree that I wouldn’t go to kids’ help if a father was threatening them or attacking them. You don’t have to fight him, just be there. If you do have to fight, you don’t have to win. If you think the kids really are in trouble you go to their aid. Full stop.

Standing off then going to the police (or to welfare officers or whatever) seems to me to be the wrong road. I feel that wanting the police or the welfare or the state to fix all problems can be hypocritical as well as wrong.

I agree there are times when citizens should go to the police about others, but suspect the father’s case was not one. The Christchurch shooting yesterday may been a case where citizens should have gone to the police. On TV1’s Tonight at Seven show today, talking about the Christchurch shooting, the host relayed comments from locals about shots fired previously by the man who was killed and allegations from his gun club that he had trouble holding a firearm. Yet there seems to have been only one previous complaint from the neighbourhood to the police. As for the gun club, why didn’t its members act? The club could have revoked or suspended the man’s membership and reported this to the police arms officer. That would have started something, especially if there had been further complaints from the man’s neighbours.
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June 29, 2009 8:09pm
Jack5

BJ: Your 9.24 on marijuana. I have questions please.

Is medical marijuana smoked?

If so, does it damage lungs in the same way as tobacco?

If this is the case, is medical marijuana confined to the treatment of terminally ill people?

If so, should terminally ill people, or at least those not suffering from lung cancer or emphysema or similar, be allowed comfort from tobacco cigarettes or cigars or pipes, too?
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June 29, 2009 8:16pm
Hurf Durf

I wish I was as cool as Phool Goof.
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June 29, 2009 8:36pm
terry

has the police finished the investigation into the ex Minister richard worth…? havent heard alot lately…whaleoil said the the investigation would be completed quickly…when he was on tv…since no one from national would show…
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June 29, 2009 11:21pm
Glutaemus Maximus

And the religious Climate Zealots bandy to-gether, and exclude the leading authority on Polar Bears from their Party.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5664069/Polar-bear-expert-barred-by-global-warmists.html

Well what a surprise. There is no Man made Climate change at all.

Sun Spot activity will have a much bigger effect as will Earth’s

rotation, and natural events like El Nino.

Just another gravy train, ready to pounce with the perfect ‘Guilt Tax’, and control for the UN.
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June 30, 2009 12:42am
Cerium

Glutaemus, you are referring to this Christopher Booker?

Booker has claimed that man-made global warming was “disproved” in 2008, that white asbestos is “chemically identical to talcum powder” and poses a “non-existent risk” to human health, that “scientific evidence to support the belief that inhaling other people’s smoke causes cancer simply does not exist” and that there is “no proof that BSE causes CJD in humans”. He has also defended the theory of Intelligent Design, maintaining that Darwinians “rest their case on nothing more than blind faith and unexamined a priori assumptions”.

No surprises there.
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June 30, 2009 6:39am
Brian Smaller

MJIN – I am not a rich prick and both my kids are at private schools. I have worked up to three jobs at once. It is something I prefer to do. I like having my kids at schools where the teachers spend just about 100% of their time teaching. they don’t have to spend half of each class trying to keep some sort of order so that the half of the kids trying to learn something actually get educated. Moving all the private school kids into the state system would cost about half a billion dollars more. You think that is a good use of taxpayers money?
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June 30, 2009 6:52am
Owen McShane

It’s the load per wheel that counts.
So a heavier truck with more axles and wider tyres than a lighter truck with fewer axles and narrower tyres will do less damage than the lighter truck.
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June 30, 2009 9:15am

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