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December 2, 2006 12:43am by David Farrar

The stadium solution

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Richard

That is the stupidest idea I’ve ever seen.

A) How will the people get in and out of the stadium? Water taxis, helicopters? Slow, expensive and dangerous.

B) How will you keep the iceberg in one place? You would need huge engines going 24/7 just to stay still against the current.

B) ICEBERGS MELT. They melt very fast even in the Southern Ocean. If one was held somewhere in Auckland harbour perhaps, it would melt even faster break up in days.

Conclusion – whoever created this proposal is a skilled and inmaginative designer, but also a fool.
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December 2, 2006 12:55am
side show bob

Richard you need help man, I take you work for the government.
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December 2, 2006 1:00am
David Farrar

I’m stunned. This is rare.
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December 2, 2006 1:06am
Rich

Where I work is irrelevant and “ad homenim.” As it happens I work with databases.

I am the first to admit this is a very imaginative and even amusing idea but how could anyone fail to see the obvious flaws in this proposal?

(Another problem – how to keep the iceberg stable? It will rock with the waves, hence will be a poor playing surface at the best of times!)
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December 2, 2006 1:24am
Rich

*The ice will mean the stadium is constantly freezing cold. How can players and spectators be expected to ‘happily’ stay in the stadium for hours?

*The stadium, being made of mostly dark conducting material, will act like a reverse heat sink and ACCELERATE the melting process. (Try putting a 10c coin on a block of ice and come back in 30 mins. See how it melts into the ice?)

*And the most serious criticism of all:

Ice has a density of 0.92g/cm3 and is just marginally buotant in water. But a stadium, made of metal and concrete, may have a denity around 2.40g/cm3 (this is a back-of-the-envelope figure) — that is almost three times the density of ice! That means even an average sized stadium has potential to shift the centre of gravity and centre of buoyancy, and create a dangerously top-heavy structure that could literally capsize and even sink entirely!

If a capsize happened while the stadium was fully loaded….. imagine the reputation of New Zealand if that happened?

I really hope nobody is taking this insane idea seriously.
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December 2, 2006 1:53am
Rich

I know DPF will delete this post eventually, but I urge all users to sign my online petition to voice their opposition to this absurd idea, while they still can.

You have to question “Mr Farrar” and his motives behind this.
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December 2, 2006 2:42am
ToeJam

“I really hope nobody is taking this insane idea seriously.”

It would appear someone is.
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December 2, 2006 3:12am
David Farrar

Heh I just might promote the petition.
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December 2, 2006 4:42am
dad4justice

What a grand idea for the stadium, I have already booked my tickets on the titanic.

This is a good idea as our toerag Prime Minister will probably travel to the game in a rocket-propelled speedboat . Cops and public will be relieved, as this is a safer prospect for all, as per her usual instruction – trying to set land speed records on our state highways while attempting to get to a important rugger match .

I wonder how much the ticket prices are for the many penguins that will be attending?
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December 2, 2006 6:24am
Norman LaRocque

A really imaginative idea and the only true National stadium concept presented so far. National Stadium in Auckland – yeah right! The stadium could be towed from one city to the other so NZ wld need only one stadium to cover the major cities. That should help its cost/benefit numbers! Even Timaru cld have a 70,000 seat stadium! Bookings to ‘host’ the stadium cld be auctioned on TradeMe.

In addition, “The ‘Berg” could have weights that could be shifted from one end of the iceberg to the other so that the iceberg is on an angle and the ABs’ opposition is always having to run uphill. These weights could be seen as playing the role of referees in the Northern Hemishphere.
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December 2, 2006 6:50am
Norman LaRocque

A really imaginative idea and the only true National stadium concept presented so far. National Stadium in Auckland – yeah right! The stadium could be towed from one city to the other so NZ wld need only one stadium to cover the major cities of NZ. That should help its cost/benefit numbers! Even Timaru cld have a 70,000 seat stadium! Bookings to ‘host’ the stadium cld be auctioned on TradeMe.

In addition, “The ‘Berg” could have weights that could be shifted from one end of the iceberg to the other so that the iceberg is on an angle and the ABs’ opposition is always having to run uphill. These weights could be seen as playing the role of referees in the Northern Hemishphere.
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December 2, 2006 6:51am
Adolf Fiinkensein

I sincerely hope it is being used to host a Labour Party conference the day it sinks.

God help me should I ever need to rely on database analysis.
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December 2, 2006 7:53am
Put it away

Excellent plan David, let’s allow three weeks to consult about this and work out the minor technical issues and then let rip
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December 2, 2006 9:06am
DavidW

Need to find a berg big enough for the nuclear power station required to generate the juice for the big refrigerators necessary to stop melting. Possible then to tow it south far enough that you don’t need floodlights as it is light all night.

Not too many players would be comfortable about cameras in the changing rooms tho’.

shiver-me-timbers
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December 2, 2006 9:52am
David Blake

OMFG what was Richard on last night? Some mind altering/numbing drug obviously!

Seriously though this idea would save a lot on refrigeration costs. The refrigeration of drinks, foodstuffs etc.

Just whack a wave generator over the side and hey presto! You have instant free never ending power for lights etc.

And I’m sure it would be ‘carbon neutral’ as there are no fossil fuels on board to be consumed.

There are other benefits too: Just imagine the pre and post match fishing opportunities!

It’s got my vote!
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December 2, 2006 10:22am
Porcupine

Plans for the next Labour conference to be held in the dunny can at the mangatapopo hut, are already too well advanced, and there is some concern even that is too large and expensive a venue – so they’re thinking of paying for it with taxpayers funds!

Well done rich

“now you see the absurdity inherent in the system”
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December 2, 2006 10:27am
Porcupine

Oh David, please PDF this blog for posterity. Or better still print a hardcopy, have it bound and present it to the Turnbull – its a treasured archive!
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December 2, 2006 10:35am
MandM

Nice idea but what do you think will happen when they discover frozen dinosaur bones in the ice?

This thing is loaded with consent problems.
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December 2, 2006 10:59am
MandM

Nice idea but what do you think will happen when they discover frozen dinosaur bones in the ice?

This thing is loaded with resource consent problems.
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December 2, 2006 11:02am
spector

As Richard has so clearly pointed out, there are many flaws to this idea… I know of at least three tribes who are making a landclaim as I write. Putting a stadium on this culturally important iceberg will affect the indiginous fishing rights of generations of maori to come.
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December 2, 2006 11:35am
Porcupine

Easily solved.

Grease the squeeky wheel with a few $mil and you’ll never hear about the problem again – its the NZ way!
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December 2, 2006 12:50pm
RedRag

Unfortunately Richard has overlooked the most important flaw with this design.

This iceberg is a breakaway from the Antarctic continent and as such is most likely to be declared “International Territory” and thus subject to all the considerations of the Antarctic Treaty. Among many other things I am sure the rules of this Treaty do not permit visits by tourists, much less the building of stadiums.

Someone above mentioned the potential “Resource Consent” issue; I suggest this pales into insignificance besides these much weightier matters:

* Article 1 – area to be used for peaceful purposes only; military activity, such as weapons testing, is prohibited, but military personnel and equipment may be used for scientific research or any other peaceful purpose;
* Article 2 – freedom of scientific investigation and cooperation shall continue;
* Article 3 – free exchange of information and personnel in cooperation with the United Nations and other international agencies;
* Article 4 – does not recognize, dispute, or establish territorial claims and no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force;
* Article 5 – prohibits nuclear explosions or disposal of radioactive wastes;
* Article 6 – includes under the treaty all land and ice shelves south of 60 degrees 00 minutes south;
* Article 7 – treaty-state observers have free access, including aerial observation, to any area and may inspect all stations, installations, and equipment; advance notice of all activities and of the introduction of military personnel must be given;
* Article 8 – allows for jurisdiction over observers and scientists by their own states;
* Article 9 – frequent consultative meetings take place among member nations;
* Article 10 – treaty states will discourage activities by any country in Antarctica that are contrary to the treaty;
* Article 11 – disputes to be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice;
* Articles 12, 13, 14 – deal with upholding, interpreting, and amending the treaty among involved nations.

In particular I foresee major difficulties with Articles 1 and 4. And Article 11 could give a whole new meaning to the concept of refereeing close line calls. And finally it would appear that unlimited access to Changing Rooms is mandatory under Article 7. All up a major can of worms.

On the other hand it could give our Foreign Minister something fresh to tackle after Fiji.
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December 2, 2006 12:58pm
Andrew

RedRag – excellent anaylsis!
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December 2, 2006 1:18pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

The concept is a total impissibolity. How on earth can you expect to mantain a level playing field during a force 9 gale?
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December 2, 2006 1:28pm
littleboylost

Hate to rain on your parade, but that aint no iceberg, more like a styrofoam burger
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December 2, 2006 2:01pm
Murray

Rich’s petition has as many supporters as the waterfront option.
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December 2, 2006 2:22pm
nigel201065

Redrag,
It’s not good idea giving it to the Poodle he has his whiskey straight and not on the rocks better giving ot to the labour party they need something to keep there chardonnay at the right temperature
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December 2, 2006 2:26pm
side show bob

You guys crack me up. This would have to be DPF’s most hilarious posting. I hope Rich is promoted, maybe a job on the Liarbour cabinet they probably need someone to do a database analysis.
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December 2, 2006 2:30pm
Porcupine

Absolute classic Redrag – with articles 8 and 11 guaranteeing the involvment of politicians and lawyers, and challenging them that it can’t be done, I think you’ve guaranteed that the project will get funded!
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December 2, 2006 2:35pm
Andrew Bannister

Brilliant work Richard. I am very pleased to be the 5th signature on your worthy petition. That’s a lot of angry people. I predict the number of signatures will double by the end of the day.

By the way, you must be a great fisherman – hook, line and sinker spring to mind. Well done!!
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December 2, 2006 2:51pm
Andrew Bannister

Whoohoo, and now it’s 6!!
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December 2, 2006 2:52pm
side show bob

Yes Andrew I couldn’t say no to Rich’s fine petition meet No 6.
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December 2, 2006 2:58pm
Porcupine

Hey rich – you should have started a petition FOR it! Mallard could have been the first signature – unless he was so excited about it he changed his name to Penguin!
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December 2, 2006 3:04pm
Andrew Bannister

Porcupine, I think ‘little blue’ might be good.
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December 2, 2006 3:31pm
Gary

I hear Trevor is right behind this one. The only problem is that the country has to decide within two weeks if it wants it, because after that the site will be unusable. If a unanimous (i.e. any proportion Trevor makes up)decision is not forthcoming, then the RWC final will be played in his backyard.

All ticket proceeds to go in the red buckets.
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December 2, 2006 4:23pm
Rich

Well I expected a lot of people to make fun of me. (And of course a couple more snide remarks about my profession and political affiliation.)

Now maybe I wen’t overboard last night, but this is exactly what DPF was talking about earlier. DPF (or one of his underlings) has put a lot of time into this proposal and who knows where it is leading.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they tried to build a stadium on an iceberg
there was no one left to speak out.

I don’t expect millions of signatures to my petition. It is quite technical so a few thousand within a week would be enough to send the message loud and clear to Dick Hubbard and the rest of the parliament. Can I please request that all the people who have signed so far ask their friends to look at the petition also.

Thanks to my supporters, espeically “RedRag”
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December 2, 2006 4:50pm
Paul Marsden

If we could whip in some under floor heating, it would make a great a penal colony.
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December 2, 2006 5:18pm
Andrew Bannister

It’s up to 8!! This petition is like a run-away train. Nothing will stop it now, NOTHING!!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

What don’t we want?
An iceberg stadium!
When don’t we want it?
Ever!

Hey Hey, Ho Ho,
Iceberg has to go!

By the way, I have heard the ice in this iceberg has been genetically altered so it won’t melt. If that contaminates other ice, ice will never ever melt again. Think about that!!
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December 2, 2006 5:25pm
Rich

Andrew,

Ice does not contain DNA, so “genetic engineering” of ice simply makes no sense.

Please leave your sarcasm at home.
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December 2, 2006 5:32pm
Andrew Bannister

Ice does not contain DNA, so “genetic engineering” of ice simply makes no sense.

Oh, I didn’t realise. That’s just what my mate told me. Maybe he meant that it’s molecular structure had been altered.
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December 2, 2006 5:38pm
Paul Marsden

Rich. I agree with you. This is a very silly idea by DPF. Perhaps we should send him to DBP’s office for a jolly good spanking.
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December 2, 2006 5:42pm
phil u

clark will have to rush through an amendment…

the foreshore..seabed..and ice-berg..bill…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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December 2, 2006 8:15pm
Porcupine

Just spoket to trev – he’s agreed to extend the deadline for a decision until the iceberg melts

It reminds me of theose classic lines out of “the great race”

Prof Fate: the iceberg’s melting

Great lesley: well keep it to yourself we dont want to upset the others

Frof fate: Ok, Ok, I’ll keep it to myself. But when the water gets to my lower lip I’m certainly going to mention it to someone!
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December 2, 2006 9:46pm
Austin Rattray

Frankly, I agree with Richard. I just cant see it getting resource consent before it melts… its just basic flaws guys…

I cant help but think they are trying to go for the Ice Hotel type theme… but instead with a National Stadium?

Lets just hope Richard doesn’t end up quoting himself from the “Come on Richard” McDonalds add… “Actually the Auckland Stadium is better than your’s…” “Come on Richard!!!”

I think the whole idea is cracked – kinda like the ice I’m thinking?
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December 2, 2006 11:30pm
james cairney

There is no way I would ever sign such a NIMBY motivated petition.

This stadium will be fantastic for our economy, outstanding for tourism, dynamic for our cultural advancement, yet … narrow mindedness and stingy ‘look at the little picture’ NIMBY’s want to scuttle one of the most unique engineering opportunities in our history.

If it is floated in International waters, then we can maintain our nuclear free status, while still powering the big fridges to keep it cool with never ending atomic juice.

Give the berg-ium the big tick.
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December 3, 2006 11:18am
Greenjacket

Like our friend Richard, I too am deeply shocked at DPF’s support for a stadium on an iceberg. Deeply deeply shocked.
Any Very Serious Person like Richard could see that the berg-stadium would not work because of the very serious risk of penguin pitch-invasions.
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December 3, 2006 11:26am
pundito

Richard, how do steel ships float? Your density quotients mean they must all sink too!

So sod the iceberg, make it a gigantic ship! It can just like the world cruise liner only not exclusively for the jet set. The idea of a test match in Milford sound holds merit.

if the takeaway bars had sink holes thru to the surface, it would have the freshest fish n chips of any stadia in the world…thus enhancing it’s position within kiwidom!

Some smart bugger could actually design stabilisers like big ships/ aircraft carriers have.

This idea has real merits, when it is off season, ie summer, they can use the pitch as a rig site for oil drilling off the coast. The whole thing could have circumferential berths for megalaunches/ cruise liners to line up around to house and entertain the 60000 attendees.

It would wonders for our ship building reputation too. NZ could be the envy of all coastal dwelling nations, and perhaps even create a whole new export industry. Maybe we could supply old bovver boy o few doz heinies to intimidate the Koreans to not undercut us
in our new industry.
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December 3, 2006 12:47pm
pundito

Richard, how do steel ships float? Your density quotients mean they must all sink too!

So sod the iceberg, make it a gigantic ship! It can just like the world cruise liner only not exclusively for the jet set. The idea of a test match in Milford sound holds merit.

if the takeaway bars had sink holes thru to the surface, it would have the freshest fish n chips of any stadia in the world…thus enhancing it’s position within kiwidom!

Some smart bugger could actually design stabilisers like big ships/ aircraft carriers have.

This idea has real merits, when it is off season, ie summer, they can use the pitch as a rig site for oil drilling off the coast. The whole thing could have circumferential berths for megalaunches/ cruise liners to line up around to house and entertain the 60000 attendees.

It would wonders for our ship building reputation too. NZ could be the envy of all coastal dwelling nations, and perhaps even create a whole new export industry. Maybe we could supply old bovver boy o few doz heinies to intimidate the Koreans to not undercut us
in our new industry.
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December 3, 2006 12:54pm
pundito

Richard, how do steel ships float? Your density quotients mean they must all sink too!

So sod the iceberg, make it a gigantic ship! It can just like the world cruise liner only not exclusively for the jet set. The idea of a test match in Milford sound holds merit.

if the takeaway bars had sink holes thru to the surface, it would have the freshest fish n chips of any stadia in the world…thus enhancing it’s position within kiwidom!

Some smart bugger could actually design stabilisers like big ships/ aircraft carriers have.

This idea has real merits, when it is off season, ie summer, they can use the pitch as a rig site for oil drilling off the coast. The whole thing could have circumferential berths for megalaunches/ cruise liners to line up around to house and entertain the 60000 attendees.

It would wonders for our ship building reputation too. NZ could be the envy of all coastal dwelling nations, and perhaps even create a whole new export industry. Maybe we could supply old bovver boy o few doz heinies to intimidate the Koreans to not undercut us
in our new industry.
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December 3, 2006 1:02pm
Andrew W

“make it a gigantic ship!”

Now you’re talking!!

But how about we put some wings on it as well? that way all of the cities in the country could use it! Not just those with a deep water harbour.
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December 3, 2006 1:08pm
Austin Rattray

Now you say it… a big ship stadium would be rather good. It has all the coolness of an ice burg but it wont melt!!

You can see what I think it should look like here.

It even has parking so that solves that problem, also can be positioned to get the sun!
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December 3, 2006 1:51pm
Rich

Richard, how do steel ships float? Your density quotients mean they must all sink too!

Pundito, it is not a problem of dispacement. It is a question of the centre of gravity (and buoyancy). I made that clear in my post.

Imagine a cruise liner that suddenly has a huge, dense structure placed at the top of the highest mast… whoops, it just capsized!
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December 3, 2006 2:00pm
Keapundit

Have you consulted the Tungata Whenua, ’cause this thing has Taniwha written all over it.
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December 3, 2006 2:06pm
dmw

You jokers are getting very silly. Any sillier and you’ll be wanting to put it in the middle of a port, for goodness sake.
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December 3, 2006 4:09pm
magoo

hey, dmw – I’ve just had an idea – why don’t we tow it up to Auckland harbour ?
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December 4, 2006 11:45am
matt the newboy

I for one congratulate Rich on his courageous stand. This is a terrible idea. The stadium has obviouly been shrunk to fit on the iceberg. That would be fine if it was hosting a midgets convention or Wiggles concert but trying to fit 60000 regular sized people in a stadium that is only half the size it was originally intended to be will make us the laughing stock of the world. Imagine staging a rugby world cup final on a pitch only half of regulation size, every kick would go into touch and there would be absoultely no room for open flowing back play. Would YOU want to see a game like that? I think not! On top of that there is no room on the iecberg for an international airport or several large hotels and without them how will the departure and bed taxes be raised to pay for the thing?
Sheer stupidity. Go find a bigger iceberg
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December 4, 2006 12:32pm
janhielke

Nice stadium for Feyenoord (Netherlands). Some of their fans made trouble last week in Nancy.
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December 5, 2006 8:06am
janhielke

Nice stadium for Feyenoord (Netherlands). Some of their fans made trouble last week in Nancy.
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December 5, 2006 8:09am

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