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December 12, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 December 2024

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Good news, Syrian refugees! Now that Assad has fallen, those who left the country to escape him are now free to return.

In Germany, the Govt put on hold all pending asylum applications. Naturally, Lefties there are critical of the decision. Wooly headed NZ continues unabated.

Whether Syria is yet safe to return to is a moot point, but in principle those seeking refuge abroad should return to their home countries once it’s possible. After all, they need to make room for the next contingent.

http://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy7kxn6p878o
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December 12, 2024 8:00am
- ChristopherW2
  
  Syrians who come to NZ have already been assessed to be refugees. We have Sylum Seekers here, but very few from Syria.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:05am
- kowtow
  
  Alawites being ethnically cleansed there now .
  
  Will the Greens et al march and protest.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:47am
  - nathie
    
    Perhaps to paraphrase Willie Jackson, they are the “Wrong Sort of Minority” for the hard-left in the Greens and Labour to be concerned about?
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:29am
- MCōs
  
  What would you know about what’s happening in Syria as of right now?
  By the sounds the place is still a complete shambles.
  Eight years ago I was helping out with renovations to my daughter’s house and I met a Syrian refugee who was delivering windows.
  He’d left rather than be conscripted into the army. He was resourceful. He told me he’d had a business back home and he was bilingual. One imagines he’s done well in the intervening years. Why would he want to return and start again?
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:56am
  - wsk12345
    
    I’m sure he wouldn’t want to return. And if he’s here legally, that’s fine, he’s probably got PR. In fact he probably came here as a normal immigrant. So kind of an irrelevant example.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:15am
    - MCōs
      
      Refugee
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:33am
peterwn

So the Russians sentenced (in absentia) a Kiwi mercenary to 14 years jail for fighting for Ukraine and he is laughing his head off as no western country would agree to his extradition. But he may not find it so funny if he is not allowed into Australia under 501 because he has been sentenced to over a year in jail.
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December 12, 2024 8:00am
- Lance
  
  Because Russia is such an upstanding proponent of human rights with fair and impartial justice?
  And the slew of foreign mercenaries fighting for Russia are not counted?
  Or is Putin an extreme hypocrite on anything and everything?
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:30am
  - imalwaysright
    
    “Because Russia is such an upstanding proponent of human rights with fair and impartial justice?”
    
    Like New Zealand, Canada, Uk, Ukraine, Israel, America, China…
    
    Its hard to tell who the good guys are anymore.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:13am
- cmm
  
  I’m sure the are waivers for 501 or similar conditions to entry in other countries.
  
  For example, Mandela didn’t seem to have problems after spending 28 years in prison for terrorism.
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:42am
  - peterwn
    
    Assuming that were the case, if he was planning to visit Australia, he would still be wise to seek a visa from the Australian Consul beforehand. Otherwise some thick headed front line official could still send him home on the next plane. More so if he pressed the button on the machine indicating that he had never been sentenced to a year plus in jail.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:12am
    - cmm
      
      Certainly. You would want to sort out a visa before hand.
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:40am
- Eastlander
  
  He should be careful. Two Colombian mercenaries found themselves extradited to Russia after their flight took stopover in Venezuela. There are several southeast Asian countries that might accept an extradition request from Russia for him – Vietnam extradited a Belarusian national who had served in the Ukrainian army back to his own country. Would they send a New Zealander in chains to Russia? It would cause a diplomatic shitstorm that Vietnam would probably prefer not to have, but why chance your arm?
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:48am
Yvette

The National Iwi Chairs Forum – a collective of tribal leaders – has sent an open letter to the King
The introduction to the Open Letter summarises the Treaty –

Tēnā koe e te Kingi Charles
… We wish to raise a constitutional matter. In 1840, your ancestor Queen Victoria negotiated Te Tiriti o Waitangi with our Rangatira (leaders). Through our Rangatira, Te Tiriti o Waitangi:

• Gave the Crown the authority to set up a government for her people who had settled or were to settle in Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu (Kāwanatanga).
• Promised the protection of our ongoing Rangatiratanga (which encompasses sovereignty) over our lands, territories, and resources (Tino Rangatiratanga).
• Gave the Crown a pre-emptive right to occupy lands we were willing to allocate.
• Promised our whānau the same rights as her subjects.

The following English text of the Treaty is taken from the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975.

Article the First
The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole Sovereigns thereof. – the Waitangi Tribunal
https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/en/about/the-treaty/maori-and-english-versions.

It will be interesting if King Charles’ reply corrects the misinformation that “set up a government for her people who had settled” replaces “the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty” of the Treaty.
Will King Charles allow this misinformation to be written into the royal record?

It is indeed additionally sad that the first paragraph of the letter says: “It is with much sadness we mourn the recent passing of Kingi Tuheitia Pōtatau Te Wherowhero VII. We know that you and your family had a great fondness for him and his mother” but then with the late King having said so clearly that: “There are no principles, the Treaty is written. That is it”, does it not disgrace remembrance of Kingi Tuheitia to, in its first statement to King Charles, the National Iwi Chairs Forum depart from the Treaty to misrepresent its meaning?

Plus the insult of not approaching King Charles through his representative in New Zealand, the Governor General, although, following the Iwi Chairs Forum logic, is Dame Alcyion Cynthia Kiro not the Forum’s “Governor General.”

And while they mention “We look forward to you continuing to build a strong relationship with [the late King’s] daughter, Te Kuini Māori, Te Arikinui Kuini Ngawaihono I te Pōtatau Te Wherowhero VIII, and strengthening your relationship with Māori through her,” does the tikanga that she may not speak pubicly for one year after her father’s death, include open letters, which would have been point of courtesy to communicate to explain why the Iwi Chairs Forum is writing directly to Charles III.

And that is only the first few sentences. //
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December 12, 2024 8:00am
- graham
  
  There was an item on 1 News last night covering this. The item stated that the Iwi Chairs Forum has appealed to King Charles, and went on to explain that the forum represents around 80 iwi.
  
  The question that my wife and I both immediately asked each other was, “If this forum represents around 80 iwi, how many iwi are there?” For some reason 1 News chose not to state that … maybe they felt it wasn’t important or relevant, or maybe it simply didn’t fit well with the message they’re trying to push 🤔 Google tells me it’s “about two hundred iwi recognised for census and similar purposes, but fewer than 60 were recognised by the Fisheries settlement“. So, apparently this forum represents either 40% or 133% (!!!) of all iwi depending on who you ask.
  
  And just who do iwi represent anyway? Apparently there is a significant percentage of Maori who do not identify with any particular iwi. According to Wikipedia,
  
  The following extract from a 2000 High Court of New Zealand judgment discussing the process of settling fishing rights illustrates some of the issues:
  
  [Mod – a small paragraph then link to the site please]
  
  The media will happily burble on about “iwi representatives” as if they speak for all Maori. The truth would appear to be rather less straight-forward.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:11am
- peterwn
  
  Do they really represent all Maori, or are they just a Maori version of the Northern Club.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:13am
- RoboRob
  
  Oh the irony of Maori who clam to have not ceded sovereignty appealing to their sovereign.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:21am
  - cmm
    
    I think they are rather trying to get King Charles to admit that the Crown intentions were never to rule over Maori.
    
    I would not be at all surprised if he rolls over and gives them everything they want.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:43am
    - kowtow
      
      He’ll take advise from his prime minister .
      
      The one in Downing Street just gave away the Chagos Islands , so anything is possible.
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:50am
      - peterwn
        
        As King of New Zealand, he would take advice from the NZ Prime Minister, not Downing Street. It would be deemed politically unacceptable for Downing Street to meddle in NZ internal affairs.
        Robert Mugabe was very strict on this. While he would tell everyone else how to run their affairs, he would not tolerate anyone else telling Zimbabwe how to run its affairs.
        
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        December 12, 2024 11:10am
    - Paulus
      
      I believe that our King will reply through his top Staff member, thanking them for their letter.
      He will say that on behalf of His Majesty the letter will pass to the relative Government Department, and that they should have a very Happy Christmas and Prosperous New Year.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:05am
  - Yvette
    
    Delivered by the Right Honourable Dame Cindy Kiro, Governor-General of New Zealand, on the Occasion of the State Opening of Parliament on Wednesday 6 December 2023, under Citizenship says –
    
    A Treaty Principles Bill will be introduced and supported to a select committee for the public to have their say.
    Waitangi Tribunal legislation will be amended to refocus the scope, purpose and nature of the tribunal’s inquiries back to the original intent of that legislation.
    The Government will also review legislation – except where it relates to full and final Treaty settlements – that includes reference to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi. Reference to the principles will be replaced with words that explain what Parliament intends, in the context of that legislation, or will be removed.
    
    _____________
    
    7.4
    The Speech from the Throne is prepared following a process determined by the Prime Minister, with officials assisting as required. The Prime Minister sends a preview copy to the Governor-General. Once the final text is approved, the Cabinet Office arranges for presentation copies of the speech to be printed and for the speech to be published in the New Zealand Gazette(link is external) after it has been given. The Prime Minister’s Office disseminates the speech to the media.
    
    It is assumed then that the Speech from the Throne, communicated to the Governor-General, therefore informs the King, so the irony RoboRob is that the Iwi Chairs Forum, are informing King Charles of matters which his office already knows.
    The King’s Representative read it to Parliament, for God’s sake
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:53am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Let’s hope King Charles does not go and side r we out rotten activists, this country could be in a power of trouble if he errs slightly in their favour
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:33am
- PurplePen
  
  I suspect the recent treaty discussion is why he didn’t come here when he was down under.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:07am
- Burtland
  
  so there we have it – New Zealand is Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:21am
  - nathie
    
    Which then also confirms “Aotearoa” is a reference to the North Island (not NZ) …
    
    So there we go Pakeha MSM/lefties will have trouble comprehending that!
    
    But that then raises another question … why are mainland “Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu” Maori (activists and their Pakeha supporters) ignoring Stewart Island and the Chatham Islands (lets alone dozens of others small inhabited islands)?
    
    Is this akin to the continuation of the erasure (or “genocide”) of Chatham Island Maori history by superior mainland Maori?
    
    So how about “we” don’t go there in terms of renaming NZ as “Aotearoa/Te Waipounamu” … due to wider grievances it will cause.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:38am
    - Burtland
      
      so our passports and cash are only valid in the north island ?
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:07am
      - nathie
        
        Good point! And whilst the nation becomes caught up in culture wars and is distracted … Mainlanders may finally get their wish and break away from being ruled by Wellington by becoming independent!
        
        Imagine the increased taxes and levies they will impose on the Aotearoans to supply the power grid via the Cook Strait cable!
        
        But at least the Aotearoans plebs will be “happy” being cold when the cold winter days sees no renewable electricity being generated. We may even see the return of Car-less EV Days. Save the planet for sure! The Green Elite won’t be affected of course, as they jet-set overseas for a 6-month climate conferences in the norther hemisphere summer. They will offset their emissions when they return by converting more and more farms into pine forests. Which won’t matter anyway because the land will be handed back to the Tribal Chiefs!
        
        The Mainlanders will be fending millions of us off as we take to small boats at night to cross the Strait to escape the Te Ao Green “paradise” of Aotearoa! 😉
        
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        December 12, 2024 11:43am
- Burtland
  
  503 odd signatories – not shown
  
  seems to be authored by Margaret Mutu
  
  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rGhfBrzUOEWuAJL3cQKyk4yV3gy83yZG/view?pli=1
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:16am
peterwn

It is ironic that Labour MP’s at Question Time are trying to pin down Nicola and co on every little detail of the Rail Ferry project. If the original now-cancelled project was so good, then why did Grant Robertson (then Finance Minister) not recommend that Cabinet signed off the extra money Kiwirail asked for before the last election. Obviously Grant had become very uneasy about the project and decided to kick the can down the alley until the election which he realised Labour was going to lose. Chris Hipkins had already sealed Labour’s fate by announcing that he would never go into coalition with Winston. I am a bit surprised that Chris Luxon and Nicola Willis are not throwing that back in Labour’s faces at Question Time.
Never mind that the original proposed ferries were turkeys that were unfit for purpose because they were too large for the purpose.
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December 12, 2024 8:01am
- Paulus
  
  What a Yawn !
  Go for it Labour – Chippy will survive over Christmas because no male will challenge him, as they see what a fool he remains.
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:20am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Does anybody in Labour know what a man is?
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:42am
    - nathie
      
      No doubt Labour are “studying” the Greens’ latest MP and are redefining what a man is for their constitution ?!! 😉
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:47am
    - Kiwiguy
      
      Well, one of them once apologised for being a man, so some of them must have some vague idea, I guess.
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:33am
  - wisteria
    
    Yesterday he tried to have a go at the Speaker about the timing of a correction to a statement by the Minister of Education. He is a very shallow thinker.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:44am
- Master Mariner
  
  And how much money was lost due to the initial building costs ? I m picking the best part of 300m due to cancellation.
  https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/us/shipbuilding-contract#toc-price-and-payment-terms
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:39am
  - peterwn
    
    In other words the original project should not have been cancelled because the cancellation was going to cost money. So it would have been better not to cancel and instead let vast uncertain amounts of money disappear down a sinkhole. That is what Chris Hipkins and Labour are pretty well implying.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:01am
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      Sunk money a trap for businesses and governments and Labour Party leaders. “The sunk cost fallacy is our tendency to continue with an endeavor we’ve invested money, effort, or time into—even if the current costs outweigh the benefits. And while the term sounds like technical jargon, it’s a common decision-making pitfall in both life and business.”
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:09am
      - Handyman
        
        Is that the same as the sunk cost of the Manawanui?
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:04am
      - Burtland
        
        the monkey trap
        
        https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/14/how-to-avoid-monkey-trap-oliver-burkeman
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:28am
      - peterwn
        
        And a big reason decision makers will take sunk costs into account is they do not want to be proven wrong and admit that the project was a turkey. There is plenty of fallacious decision making at a casino near you.
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:33am
      - Hugh Jarse
        
        Sorry Handyman, reported you instead of replying, my reply was “similar but dryer”
        
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        December 12, 2024 11:03am
    - Master Mariner
      
      No, Common sense always said that the ferries were never going to work in NZ and should never of been signed off in the first place.
      Has the Building contract ever been made public?
      How much did the Tax payers squander in the signing of it?
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:16am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Looks like bang on the money,
        “This aligns with numbers reported by Stuff which suggested a set of ferries costing $900 million and a break fee of up to $300 million, plus minor port-side upgrades and sunk costs. When asked, Peters said this report was “drivel”.
        https://www.interest.co.nz/public-policy/131212/nicola-willis-and-winston-peters-are-confident-they-can-find-replacement
        
        All I can say it was lucky to be cancelled when it was before the next tranche of payment would of been made.
        
        Side note, I have not been following News in NZ due too work commitments overseas , However still read most posts on here.
        
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        December 12, 2024 9:44am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I wonder if either government talked to the ferry captains.
        That would be a starting point, then employ a few different ship brokers to do the leg work and present their best deals.
        
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        December 12, 2024 9:48am
    - pdm
      
      pw – I think you should have qualified that last sentence by reminding readers that Hipkins and everyone else in the Labour Caucus over the last 7 years is/was economically inept
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:17am
    - RoboRob
      
      We all need to remember that this project, like Dunedin hospital, was NEVER going to complete under Labour. Both were failing, Labour knew it and was prepared to kick the can down the road until someone else could take the flack. If they had won last election, they would still be talking about these things but not doing them.
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:29am
      - PurplePen
        
        And forking out hundreds of millions on report writing.
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:09am
      - peterwn
        
        Except with the ferries, Kiwirail (so they thought) pretty well had the previous Labour Government by the balls. In the case of Dunedin Hospital, Labour could have kicked the can down the road for another three years. In the case of Kiwirail, the project had sufficient momentum that Robbo could only kick the can down the road until the election. Then if he remained Finance Minister would have had to face the music. He would probably have got Cabinet to sign off what Kiwirail asked for on that occasion ‘only’ thus kicking the can further down the road.
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:10am
      - RoboRob
        
        @peterwn
        
        I think you underestimate GR. If Labout had been returned at the last election he could have …
        
        1) waited a year and then setup a new oversight group
        
        2) The group takes a year to staff and get up to speed
        
        3) The group then identifies issues that a require further investigation. Tanking then past the next election.
        
        Easy.
        
        My wife has recently been offered a job at a government department. The hiring process was surprisingly quick and efficient as they want her to start promptly next year. The issue is she hasn’t received a contract to sign yet from HR so cant give notice at her current job. Her notice period is one month excl holidays!
        
        Government agencies move slooooooooooow.
        
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        December 12, 2024 11:05am
      - peterwn
        
        Re your wife’s proposed job. HR was probably hoping she would accept the job before seeing the proposed employment contract. This shifts bargaining power from the employee to the employer.
        
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        December 12, 2024 11:29am
    - Keith White
      
      Well, it’s not Hipkins’ money so he does not give the proverbial if it costs the net taxpayers literally billions. As long as he can score smarm-points. Seems to be his only goal in life, the fatuous, lazy, condescending dweeb.
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:38am
    - John Loveridge
      
      That was the kind of thinking that gave Wellingtonians the Town Hall, wasn’t it?
      
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      December 12, 2024 9:44am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I’m surprised that Hyundai wouldn’t have made an offer to build the smaller ferries that the Govt now wants, with a special price to keep the business. I very much doubt that much engineering would have been done on the Irex ferry build prior to cancellation.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:15am
    - Paulus
      
      We do not know what arrangements have been made with Hyundai.
      Called Commercially Sensitive, as it should remain as was under Labour.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:08am
      - Master Mariner
        
        See above posts regarding standard ship building contracts. All ship building contracts are standard.
        Nothing commercially sensitive about it, Just basic maths.
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:16am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Commercially sensitive under Labour, but Labour don’t care about legal obligations. Hipkins spouting the ship cost 551 mill is yet another lie
        
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        December 12, 2024 10:44am
    - peterwn
      
      That is why the ‘cancellation’ negotiations are taking so long. There are almost certainly negotiations on a possible revised contract and for obvious reasons things need to remain highly confidential for the time being. Kiwirail is also exploring alternative build options to bet a better idea of things when negotiating and also because Nicola will want evidence that the best outcome is being explored.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:17am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That may well be exactly what happens, if Hyundai build the new ships, then there may well be no break fee at all.
      
      The left and thee ed media are telling saying it’s a shambles because there is no deal, there is a deal, it has been confirmed, but Peter’s has until March 25 to find another option before it is official.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:42am
    - GazzaW
      
      There’s very little doubt that Hyundai will have made an offer to build the smaller ferries and the penalties incurred will be much lower than they would have been had the original contract just been cancelled. There’s really not much to see here other than to watch Hipkins and Edmonds make fools of themselves in the House and backed up by the ‘usuals’ in the MSM.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:55am
- newview
  
  Agree Peter, and in that announcement by Willis it was stated that all would be revealed in March 25. Self explanatory really. Media hasn’t bothered with that detail.
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:43am
  - peterwn
    
    The media wants Nicola to fail. If she fails in her job everyone (including left wingers) will feel it.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:16am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Why is this ferry debacle a government problem?
    The chief executive is on about $1.7 million each and every year.
    Isn’t it reasonable to expect he would be able to sort it?
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:07am
    - peterwn
      
      Precisely. He should have insisted that his people did a proper job to start with – ie a ferry proposal that was going to work and had been fully scoped. Instead I think Kiwirail was playing politics with the Robbo and co on this. Also if Treasury was doing its job properly they would have advised Robbo to take care but he probably ignored Treasury advice.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:28am
    - Taieri
      
      Why is this ferry debacle a government problem?
      ————
      
      Indeed. KiwiRail is supposedly a State Owned Enterprise not a government department. As SOE it is supposed to function as any commercial entity and generate profit. This also implies than any capital investment should be on their own account.
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:08am
- RoboRob
  
  Chris hipkins will be gone by next election along with his promise to never go into coalition with Winston.
  
  I am surprised people believe politicians on stuff like this. This is the same Hipkins who said no capital gains under my watch, that has essentially been pushing the idea of a capital gains tax with the help of the legacy media.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:09am
  - Paulus
    
    We may not see Winston at the next election as he is getting more fragile with hard work, and now to soon lose his Deputy Prime Ministership.
    He is doing well, but as a few years older than him life gets tougher daily.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:10am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He has already confirmed his intentions
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:45am
- Handyman
  
  On TVNZ last night they said the cost of the megaferry project was $551m and was to be operational by 2026. They lied.
  The actual cost request by Kiwirail to the incoming government was over $3,000m.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:11am
  - RoboRob
    
    Yes, last nights TVNZ news was totally misleading, which we have to assume is normal.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:44am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They are talking about the ships it’s self, but I thought that price blew out to 900 billion as well.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:46am
    - Ghost
      
      I think you mean million
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:51am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They hadn’t even started building, and they expected us to believe they would be finished by 2026 which is only 54 weeks away
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:47am
    - peterwn
      
      In fairness the shipbuilder was proceeding with procurement and fabrication of hull components had started. Still, even with this progress, 54 weeks would have been pushing it. Anyway provision of port facilities (which was the big issue) was on the ‘critical path’ so even if they were completed in 54 weeks they would have had to be laid up for a year or so.
      In UK, with the Crossrail project, things got behind schedule, and the Government was asked for a billion+ so the project could be expedited. In reality, the signalling and train control systems were on the ‘critical path’ and could not be fast tracked because of the care and extensive testing required (no one would have wanted another Clapham Junction disaster), so the extra ‘fast tracking’ expenditure was a waste of money and the Government was not amused when they realised this.
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:24am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    According to an extract from acabinet paper, this type of project normally over ran by 38%, so the final cost was expected to be in the vicinity of $4B, with all the additional cost of the new terminal facilities. Hence Robbo kicking the can down the road. Labour and the media lying their little hearts out.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:09am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  His arguments have been pathetic on every issue, he stated last week that the government should have built the Irix ships, but down sized the port infrastructure, so is that an admission that the project was too bloody expensive under his watch? Who knows.
  
  He s as psi stated Luxon has told you he doesn’t care, he was referring to Luxon saying he does care about polls. Hipkins is not just idiotic in the same way Ardern was, but he continues to twist things and lies. What is a worry, many people believe his lies.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:37am
Simon

National’s stated priorities are the economy, law & order and properly functioning public sector.

However basic constitutional issues are key for NZ. Because if NZ dissolves into Maorification then there isn’t a country anymore. Partnership, co-governance, seabed & foreshore, special rights for Maori. Etc etc. A Maori centric country wholly funded by non-Maori. A totally rotten and corrupt structure.

Maorification means that National’s stated priorities are like the Cambodian govt designing a new flag while the Khmer Rouge are 20 km away from the capital.
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December 12, 2024 8:04am
- Paulus
  
  Maori have already won, as we see every day behind the daily scenes of the things that have happened when they should not have done so behind our backs.
  Look at the Maori Kura style Education Department – great illiterate children, cannot find a job, but can do a Haka, but cannot read or write well enough to even fill in an application form.
  Gonna get worse as more educated immigrants come into New Zealand, willing to learn and work.
  We are seeing this from the ethnic figures we may trust.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:16am
Kiwiguy

I can’t believe this garbage.
The doctor writes on LinkedIn: “…..but it’s more this deep discomfort with how it feels to wear a title from an institution that’s so colonial and elitist.”
If she hates this ‘colonial institution’ then why the eff did she decide to become a doctor? Why not just dabble in some sort of traditional Maori voodoo instead?
And the amount of support she’s getting is bewildering.
Link: https://tinyurl.com/ymxtnksc
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December 12, 2024 8:10am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Maybe she could call herself a Tohunga ?
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:13am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Sounds like she didn’t come top of the class, isn’t getting job offers and is seeing herself better off in politics. Big status for a medical degree in the land of the frivolous PhD’s.
    
    I’m sure that the acres of bone and jade that they hang around their necks restricts the blood flow to the brain.
    Low energy
    Low intellect
    Perfect politician
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:42am
- Inandout
  
  Kiwi, and these cretins get ‘assisted’ through medical college and then throw this shit back at taxpayers.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Her PhD is in Maori Physical Education …not medicine.
  
  https://openrepository.aut.ac.nz/items/5d8eb379-e6e9-421f-bd70-577c807975fc
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I think the Maori Physical Education department is in between the Grant Robertson School of Economics and the Jacinda Adern Centre for Gang Drug Rehabilitation.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:23am
  - Inandout
    
    Maggy, I note that ‘Open Access’ is the format and this absolute bullshit attached.
    
    ‘He Pukenga Pūrākau, Ka Ora te Tamaiti centres on the transformative power of pūrākau-based physical activity and its impact on hauora outcomes for tamariki Māori. He Pukenga Pūrākau, Ka Ora te Tamaiti emphasises that a flood of pūrākau results in the health of the child. The enduring nature of pūrākau, spanning thousands of years, attests to how Māori narratives have encoded knowledge, values, and played a vital role in transmitting mātauranga Māori across generations. Central to this research is a focus on tamariki, including a commitment to empowering their creative potential and amplifying their unique voices’.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:49am
Chuck Bird

This is why I say every Jew should vote for Act.

https://www.facebook.com/simoncourtact
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December 12, 2024 8:11am
- mandk
  
  Yes, Simon is a good friend of Israel.
  
  I heard him speak from his heart at the Wellington Jewish Community Centre on 7/10/24, in an event to make the anniversary of the atrocities committed in Israel by Hamas.
  
  Chris Bishop also spoke at the event, in similar fashion.
  
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  December 12, 2024 8:32am
Notsofast

Wes Streeting announces a permanent ban on puberty blockers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly2z0gx3p5o

“Streeting told MPs he was making the temporary ban introduced in May indefinite across the UK, following a consultation and advice from the Commission on Human Medicines – calling the way the drugs had been used a “scandal”.

Maybe Matt Doocey should be happy with the sex of his children.
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December 12, 2024 8:21am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Apparently, Police are looking for a large man aged about 30 with full face tattoos.

No word on his ethnicity. Odd, that.

My bet is that they already know who he is, down to his iwi affiliations.
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December 12, 2024 8:26am
- RoboRob
  
  Yes I was stunned by that too. Clearly our police are new only part woke. They have gone from never mentioning race (if Brown) and Gang status, to mentioning gang status but still no colour. This is clearly in keeping with out govt, who are now hard on gangs but still squishy on ethnicity.
  
  The absolutely stupid thing is that we are supposed to be able to identify this ‘person’ based on ‘Large gang member with full facial tatoos’. Mentioning the type of tatoo and the colour of skin would greatly help.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:15am
  - PurplePen
    
    Yes. They could leave the race out and just state what colour the skin is. Mind you, race does assist visually with identifying someone. For example there are clear physical differences in faces that are European, Chinese and Maori.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:15am
    - RoboRob
      
      I was just using ‘Brown’ as a cover for Maori, Pacifica etc I agree that race would be more descriptive.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:57am
    - Grumpy Silver Top
      
      This is not totally on topic but genetic heritage is written on all our faces, due to our skin tone (I didn’t say colour), eye colour, hair colour, face shape, setting of eyes. I knew a Thai national who could tell whether a person was from China, Japan, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and which part of Thailand using those keys. European genetic heritage is similarly identifiable.
      
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      December 12, 2024 10:58am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  This being in relation to the recent shooting of a gang member by (presumably) another gang member in Naenae.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:19am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Oh great. Now we have to have more road closures and police escorts for yet another funeral procession through the streets.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:41am
- MCōs
  
  I thought all was going to change with new back to basics, tough on crime, new broom people at the top?
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    No leave it as Darwin’s Theory.
    With the publication of On the Origin of Species in 1859, he advanced a view of the development of life on earth that profoundly shaped nearly all biological and much philosophical thought which followed.
    Every one that gets done in is great in evolutionary aspect on that Theory
    Survival of the Fittest.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:23am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    It took 6 years for Labour to get their complicated, easy on crime, shiny new academic solutions to get to the cluster that the coalition inherited, so not unreasonable for it to take more than a year to turn this omnishambles around. They have already got a few runs on the board.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  Cops walking around a crime scene with semi-automatic rifles slung round their necks is getting a bit tiresome.
  Do they really want to start firing those in a built up neighborhood?
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:54am
kowtow

You really do have to wonder at the motivations of the media party .

Today’s print version of the Herald ,page A12 , features a non story , carried from RNZ , together with a photo of a gangster , hugging a young relative . In the hug he’s featured wearing a ‘Mighty Mongrel Mob” t shirt (indoors) .

The story which is really an anti coaltion , anti law and decency article ,dressed up as a feel good about how this man , an avowedly openly anti social fellow , is leaving a legacy for his grandchildren and being an “inspiration” , because he can bake and sell a few loaves of some kind of Maori bread.

The msm is anti decency and stands actively against civil society .
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December 12, 2024 8:46am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I noted that he appears to be using a domestic kitchen to bake bread that he then sells.
  
  I’m sure there’s a food prep regulation or two against that sort of thing.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:20am
  - PurplePen
    
    Would that be a traditional colonial oven, cooktop and stainless steel sink.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:17am
- cmm
  
  I wondered what this amazing Maori bread is. It seems to be stuff also called Rēwena bread – a sourdough made with a potato-based starter.
  
  A few websites say this is “unique to Aotearoa”.
  
  What nonsense. Potato started sourdoughs with the same recipe are known the world over – but of course they just get on with it with less mumbo-jumbo.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:22am
  - Grumpy Silver Top
    
    Must be something learned from Settlers, yes?
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:00am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Has to be. Maori did not have potatoes, or wheat.
      
      Nor do they seem to have had ovens (other than hangi pits) – hadn’t invented clay bricks – or clay anything really. Bit strange, a culture that had lost the ability to make pots.
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:20am
  - PurplePen
    
    Isn’t the potato native to south America somewhere? And the Portuguese introduced the rest of the world to it.
    
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    December 12, 2024 12:01pm
- Paulus
  
  Media has one job, to make money to overpay its adherents.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:24am
- Burtland
  
  RNZ have started to legitimize the mongrel mob
  – they normalize the mob by reporting on the funerals
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/536289/mongrel-mob-farewells-heil-dogg-in-hawke-s-bay-tangi
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:44am
lastmanstanding

As a student of Australian politics I find it fascinating watching the Albanese Labor Government crash and burn. Their failures can be summed up in two issues, failure to control inflation and therefore interest rates and the cost of living and their race policies including the failed Voice and support for Palestine and lack of support for Israel leading to the burning of Synagogues and Jewish citizens property and the general terrorisation of Jewish people.
Labor and Labour follow the same play book unable to understand the majority of citizens and their wants and desires. Instead both pander to fringe groups. Alas the Nats are in danger of falling into the same trap. While they are on top of economic issues they are well behind on race issues and failing to read the room. The Treaty Principles Bill being a prime example.
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December 12, 2024 8:56am
- RoboRob
  
  I dont follow Aus politics but the feel I had was that Aussies knew the Labour govt were crap but elected them becuase the previous lot were even worse. The Labour govt is just performing as expected 🙂
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:19am
Matt Long

A couple of weeks ago I wrote about the huge success of the banning of R-22 refrigerant, and how the annual ozone hole is supposed to close by 2050 (2100, 2200) as a result of the international treaty to phase out R22.
I predicted soon a new refrigerant would be need as current ones would be found to be environmentally harmful, and here we are.
https://dts.co.nz/about-us/news/refrigerant-gas-swap-out-makes-good-horticultural-sense/
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December 12, 2024 9:01am
- peterwn
  
  Interesting too that hospitals are now decommissioning nitrous oxide (laughing gas) systems (there were typically nitrous oxide taps alongside oxygen taps in operating theatres, emergency departments etc). They were finding that far more nitrous oxide was escaping into the atmosphere (not good) than was being inhaled by patients. Reverting to using nitrous oxide in cylinders is considered better all round.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:24am
  - JackRabbit
    
    They were finding that far more nitrous oxide was escaping into the atmosphere…
    
    Not to mention that which may have been siphoned off to use in motor cars / office parties / black market sales.
    
    I would say that most amounts “leaked” were more than likely stolen. The “escaping into the atmosphere” story is the kind of story that gets issued to cover up the embarrassing truth.
    
    The theft of nitrous oxide from hospitals has been an ongoing problem world wide. It is expensive gas. Having it on tap gave everyone an unrestricted supply/ unregulated / unmonitored.
    
    Search Google: nitrous oxide theft from medical
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:17am
    - peterwn
      
      Years ago a small hospital had a lockable cabinet for narcotics. But the bigger problem was the theft of dressings and similar. Solution – store the narcotics on top of the cabinet and the dressings inside. Until some Pommie doctor started working there and almost immediately mainlined some pethidine stored on top of the cabinet.
      
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      December 12, 2024 11:00am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep and along with Halon ( The best Fire extinguisher, However still allowed on airplanes due to its effectiveness).
  Is the Ozone hole ( comes and goes) due to the weakening Magnetic Field over South America ?
  And how come any Climate “scientist” do not mention and factor this in ?
  Regardless, All science has been “captured” to a lesser or greater degree. Look no further than our hosts Marsden Funding and Noaa/Nasa / Niwa climate hysteria.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:27am
  - cmm
    
    Climate Science is a branch of the One True Science.
    Political Science.
    
    When people talk of “following the science” that is what they really mean.
    
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    December 12, 2024 9:49am
- Taieri
  
  The main problem with new refrigerants is fractionation. Most of these refrigerants are blends and if there are leaks in the system blends can change their composition, reducing refrigerating effect and disturbing correct operation of the plant. Can be quite a headache in large plants. Both, technical and financial.
  
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  December 12, 2024 9:51am
- JackRabbit
  
  A couple of weeks ago I wrote about the huge success of the banning of R-22 refrigerant…
  
  [1] R22 is heavier than air. Plenty of “fridge techs” knew that back when R22 was “found to be creating the ozone layer hole.”
  
  [2] They always seem to find problems with the “current gas” around the same time that the patents which grant commercial exclusivity and/or patent rights income, are due to expire.
  
  [3] According to many ‘fridge techs’ The replacement gases were thinner and lighter than the old gases.
  
  [4] I was aware of the patent expiry scam back in the 90’s. It looks like the 25 year patents on the various replacement gases
  
  [5] So now we are onto our next gas money cycle.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:02am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Typo: It looks like the 25 year patents on the various replacement gases have expired or are expiring, so a new patent income stream is required.
    
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    December 12, 2024 10:20am
nathie

A question for KB’s resident mariners.

What are your views on the practicalities of the Spirit of Tasmania IV (and V) being suitable as (hypothetical) interim ferries (until the new ones are built)?

I understand they are bigger vessels than their other Tasmanian predecessors (hmm did KiwiRail have get their “Mega Ferries” replacement idea from them?), but are they too big / unsuitable or potentially suitable for Cook Strait use in the interim?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-26/spirit-of-tasmania-temporary-berth-not-viable-option/104516516
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December 12, 2024 9:39am
- Taieri
  
  At 31 metres beam they are too wide for the existing Interislander terminal facilities.
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:19am
  - nathie
    
    Cheers for the info Taieri!
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:52am
Matt Long

Breaking news, Luxon to appoint new Minister in Charge of creating new Ministries.
My mentor Jacinda Ardern created so many useless massively wasteful ministries that we are struggling to better her record, that is why today I’m proud to announce the new Ministry for Creating New Wasteful Ministries, Mr Luxon said.
https://x.com/MHReddell/status/1866638481042313228
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December 12, 2024 9:50am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  You lost me at RH Reddell, he’s that pommie unionist hack that says he is an economic expert that use to work out of Robertson’s office
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:01am
  - Taieri
    
    Michael Reddell is not a “pommie unionist hack that says…”.
    Michael Reddell is a former Head of Financial Markets at RBNZ and a current board member at the Reserve Bank of Papua New Guinea. A born and bred New Zealander.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:30am
sungsamning

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/12/11/no-farmers-no-food-hundreds-of-tractors-converge-on-central-lo
No Farmers, No Food.

Up to 500 tractors are estimated to have made their way to London on Wednesday morning, blocking off multiple lanes of traffic around Whitehall as organizers vow to step up actions against Prime Minster Sir Keir Starmer’s government if it refuses to back down.

Dairy farmer and member of the steering group of the No Farmers, No Food campaign group Charles Goadby told GB News that “this is only the beginning”.

“Everyone is pointing out that the government have got it wrong and they are refusing to admit it. The government is behaving like a petulant toddler.”
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December 12, 2024 10:11am
sungsamning

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14178685/elon-musk-doge-proposal-foreign-aid.html
Controversial proposal for Elon Musk’s DOGE that would save billions for Americans picks up steam.
One of the most controversial proposals from Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is gaining support as he and lawmakers look to cut costs.

President-elect Donald Trump has tapped the Tesla CEO and entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy to cut trillions of dollars in federal spending as the U.S. national debt continues to balloon to staggering new highs inflated by runaway expenditures over the few last decades.
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December 12, 2024 10:12am
I remember when

While there does seem to be justified doubt about the Government’s handling of the purchase of new ferries, the media are determined to show they have got it wrong.
Two nights in a row Three News have had Chris Hipkins, followed by the Labour Party sponsor, the Secretary of the Maritime Union, debunking the Government’s decision/lack thereof.
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December 12, 2024 10:20am
- peterwn
  
  I thought the ‘justified doubt’ would have applied to the previous Government, not the present one.
  The ones expressing the doubt seem to think money grows on trees, never mind that the cancelled ferries were not fit for purpose.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:43am
MCōs

Re the Cook Strait ferries
Very interesting interview with Don Braid of Mainfreight on Morning Report.
He certainly put the boot into Seymour and the Government in general, but he was pleased they now have someone looking at the ferry problem.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018968066/mainfreight-call-progress-on-ferries-frustratingly-slow
There was also an interview with a steamed up Minister for Rail, Winston Peters who also put the boot into Seymour
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018968071/winston-peters-on-replacing-interislander-ferries
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December 12, 2024 10:28am
- peterwn
  
  So presumably Don Braid of Mainfreight wanted the original proposal to proceed never mind the cost and the impractical nature of the project. He forgets that if his Board were in Cabinet’s shoes they would (or should) have cannd the project just as Nicola and Cabinet did.
  He should be putting the boot into the previous Government, not those left to clean up the mess.
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:40am
  - MCōs
    
    He didn’t say that at all. He said that Kiwirail should have not let things get out of control, or words to that effect.
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:07am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He was very matey with Labour, and that fool Robertson always quoted Braid, take any the says with a grain of salt, I was surprised HDS had him on radio this morning when he is conflicted
    
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    December 12, 2024 11:10am
- Burtland
  
  Braid loves the freight subsidies
  
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  December 12, 2024 10:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Braid had ties with Labour, they think they could be in line to nationalise transport, wouldn’t listen to a word he says
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:04am
Bridgenag

The Psywar Glossary
Excerpt from the book PsyWar: Enforcing the New World Order

Words have meaning, words have power. Those who use words to control your perception can and will control your deception.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/the-psywar-glossary?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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December 12, 2024 10:57am
goNZ1

recently I applied for a job at MBIE. This morning I got an emailed response that began literally per below –
” Tēnā koe i tō whakawātea i a koe anō ki te tuku mai i tō tono mō te tūranga Senior Commercial Specialist AOG 16109 ki Hīkina Whakatutuki i tono ai koe i te tūranga 30/11/2024.

Kua āta whakaarotia ngā tono katoa e ai ki tā ngā paearu e tohu nei, ā, kāore koe i tae ki te whiringa whāiti o te tukanga tohu tangata.
Tēnā koe i tō whai whakaaro ki te tuku mai i tō tono. He tohutohu noa, kia kaha tonu te mātaki ake i ngā āheinga mahi ka tūpono mai i te pae tukutuku whai mahi a Te Manatū.
Heoi anō rā, ngā manaakitanga ki runga ki a koe i tēnei ara whai mahi.” etc.

When is this nonsense going to stop !!!!!
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December 12, 2024 11:14am
- Taieri
  
  When is this nonsense going to stop !!!!!
  ———
  
  It’s not going to stop. It will go on expanding.
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:32am
- Don Beckett
  
  So have you asked for a translation, or simply told them to get stuffed ?
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:42am
- Bobba Fret
  
  That response should put you off wanting to work there.
  
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  December 12, 2024 11:47am
- Jethrod
  
  The translation from Google is limited to only a few words, so it would take forever to make any sense of it.
  
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  December 12, 2024 12:03pm
- PurplePen
  
  Write back but only in Maori. Use shorter sentences to better ensure google translate gets it right.
  
  Actually, I’ve just thought. Don’t do what I said. It will only encourage them and also give them cause to increase their Maori translation services budget.
  
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  December 12, 2024 12:07pm
cmm

Last year one of my customers staff put up some “Merry Christmas” decorations. There were some complaints from other staff that this was not inclusive to all religions and it all came down.

This year some “Meri Kirihimete” decorations went up. Nobody said a peep.
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December 12, 2024 11:55am
- Jethrod
  
  Mmmm, imagine a little crib in an old manger, whoory,
  
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  December 12, 2024 12:06pm
Don Beckett

Are Maori ‘Indigenous’ ? Most people disagree, including the Maori leader David Rankin. This will set the cat amongst the pigeons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvt8ulFIsSE
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December 12, 2024 12:08pm
Don Beckett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_3XCyXp3qc

Just skimming youtube, this came up with a bald eagle landing at a Trump rally in California.
Is it true? Haven’t heard of it before – is it a AI jackup ?
If it’s true, it’s bloody amazing.
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December 12, 2024 12:28pm

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